Then: >A fighter >A cleric >An elvish thief >A dwarf

>>44974494
What kind of elf would soop to thievery?

It's elvish ranger and/or halfling rogue.

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>>44974494
You're not. This shit's getting ridiculous.

>>44974564
Around elves, watch yourselves!

>>44974494
>>A half-orc barbarian

What?

I assumed that this was a pretty classic character

otherwise I agree with you

Two decades ago, my first character I ever made was a lizardfolk sorcerer fighter.

>>44974494
I agree with you, except for the half-orc barbarian. I'm going with >>44974862 on that one.
Craziest thing I've ever done was thief/illusionist.

>>44974494
The only problem with the second list is the excessive use of magic.

Yeah I'm annoyed that fighters have been entirely replaced by barbarians at this point due to people finally realizing that AC is worthless past a certain (low) level and doing the most damage as fast as possible is the healthier route.

People are substituting oddball character race/class combinations for character personalities. They try SO HARD to "break the mold" that they end up with weird bullshit ideas that have no place in the actual setting.

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>>44974494
You know how some people when they jacking off regularly they slowly but surely devolve into developing fetishes that become more and more heretical? Same thing with your post, the standard fantasy archetypes become too vanilla for people to enjoy because they see it everywhere. Human, Elf, Dwarf, these races get thrown around everywhere all the time and for these people they simply don't see the charm in their simplicity as time goes on.

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>>44974494
Adventurers have always been exceptional people. Also races that have no place in normal society are more likely to become adventurers.

Normalfags happened

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>>44974494

Then:

>7 fighting-men
>A dwarf
>A magic-user
>4 henchmen
>20 men-at-arms
>12 porters, torchbearers, and other misc hirelings

Now:

>A tielfling thief-sorcerer-paladin
>A warforged cleric-monk-druid

Where did it all go so wrong?

>>44975056
>>44975062
I still enjoy playing humans despite being the standard race. To be fair it's usually mechanical reasons, but it always seems to work out for the better. Short lived, hungry for glory, power, or women and the willingness to venture into uncharted territory that other races have only just been observing for a millennium.

>>44975069
Apparently "extraordinary" means special-snowflake race and stupid class. You can make interesting, extraordinary characters without giving them scales or making them a fucking druid-paladin-barbarian-sorcerer hybrid.

>>44975056
This

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>people are having fun even though it doesn't line up with my nostalgia
>I can't be the only one who's annoyed by this

please be bait

>>44974947
No.
It wasn't.

Fantasy gaming and fantasy lit have simply parted ways.

Game of thrones is all about humans, most of whom aren't doing anything a 3rd level fighting man couldn't do. Likewise for Harry Potter, except with magic users.

>>44975055
You're two editions behind, sperg.

>>44975056
>playing in a game with an established setting
>not playing GURPS

>>44975609
I'm not saying you can't do it, but when I show up at the table, it's kind of frustrating to have Sakura Lustfang the Tiefling sorceress to my left and Snoodlyboop the Kobold bard-thief to my right.

>>44976072
That's a problem with your gaming group. Talk to them.

>>44976072

>no, except yes

Not saying that "non-traditional" character concepts can't be done badly, but saying that they're inferior to the AD&D standard set is more than a little elitist.

>>44974494

Always play a Human Barbarian/Fighter or an Elf Paladin

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>>44974494
>I can't be the only one who's annoyed by this.

you pretty much are

>>44975834
GURPS is shit.

>>44976847
Except for almost everyone in the thread.

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>>44974494
>having an entire characters personality based solely around their class and/or race
>thinks this is a good thing

>>44974494
I get you OP.

My rule of thumb is "Would they be attacked by guards for being mistaken as a horde of monsters?
If I was a guard and I saw humans, elves, and a half-orc, I wouldn't ring the bell. If I saw a Drow, a Tiefling, and a Goblin, I would ring that bell as fast as I could.

>>44977026
This is literally the exact opposite of what I said.

>>44976847
Not even.

>>44974987
Fucking scum. How dare you

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>>44974494

...are you saying Paladins and Barbarians are a problem?

>>44977089
And why, as a backwards guardsman or whatever, aren't you ringing the bell the first time because OH SHIT AN ORC?

>>44977089
Newer gamers think every setting is a big mix of happy monsters..where a guard would be fired for racial profiling if he rang the bell.

>>44977174

...it's a Half-Orc man, he can't help that his mom raped an orc, it wasn't his idea.

>>44977105
The only deference between "then" and "now" is the inclusion of some special snowflakey races, big whoop. It's still the same cancer.

>>44974494
This picture is so much more adventurous and awesome than the fucking gay cartoony shit we have today.

>>44977089
>>44977174
>>44977175

>thinks all settings are basic fantasy settings
>doesn't want to deal with conflict from potential racism

you must be interesting people with a wide variety of interests

>>44977174
Half Orcs are distrusted, but in a group of humans, it's probably cool.
>>44977175
>Be guard.
>See Dragon covered in spikes surrounded by Bugbears
>Holy shit, we're going to die
>Oh, wait, that's racist.
>As my down is pillaged and burned, I will find pride that my last moments were spent checking my privilege.

>>44977248

>five wandering sociopaths and the child they just murdered

I guess that counts as an adventure.

>>44977264
>What is Low-Fantasy.
Not every game has the main races as carnivorous plant dwarfs, sentient dust-clouds, and a race made of personified abstract concepts.

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Classic fantasy is dead and buried buddy

Thematically, aesthetically, mechanically, there's nothing left because normalfags and fedoras turned 'generic' and 'cliche' into their rallying cry and tabletop writers had to accommodate or die.

>>44977282
See, I think the critical thing is that the group needs some critical mass of "civilized races" (by whatever standards the setting/local culture has) so it's obvious at a glance that their must be something up with the monstrous person(s) to make them functionally compatible with reasonable people.

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>>44977264
Racism as a theme is rich enough for exploration without the jews literally sprouting horns and fangs.

>>44977380

But that's not the topic? The only people bashing anything here are the ones who think their basic AD&D races/classes are best setting, and the ones tho think those people are idiots.

I feel weirdly in the middle of this argument, I think too much multiclassing is stupid and sort of defeating the purpose of even having a class system.

On the other hand I find having more races classes and class variants appealing.

>>44977741
Having a huge number of classes is retarded. You inevitably end up with meaningless distinctions like sorcerers and wizards.

>>44978335
Amen.

>>44978335
>Like wizards and sorcerers.
Nah, I actually like that distinction, I just don't like how it's normally treated by players.
Now classes like Favored Soul, things that can be accomplished through simple multiclassing, that pisses me off.

>>44978335

>charisma based spell geyser

>int based arcane alpha nerd

They're pretty meaningful distinctions.

>>44975365
This is the oldest argument about tabletop, it seems. I remember these threads from seven years ago. People like different things, sometimes they don't want to be human. It's happens, it's fine and doesn't matter.

>>44974494
Then:

>everyone is playing D&D

Now:

>everyone is playing D&D

I can't be the only one who's annoyed by this.

Why are there paladins, really?
Did somebody play a Cleric and was all like "Nah, I want to have a sword and be more restricted"

>>44974494
Pretty much. I'm always a human in my group so that we aren't all non human races. My groups not so bad though, but it bugs me being the gang of eclectic rare races.

At least my group is low magic. But accidentally so if anyone dies who knows what will happen.

>>44978714
Nah, D&D as well as CoC and WoD now.

>>44978731
In the days of requisite ability scores, Paladins and Monks were pretty OP.

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>>44976909
>GURPS is shit.
GURPS is the shit.
>ftfy
I'm sorry you have trouble with simple math.

>>44977105
I think his pic related meant he was trying to low quality bait you, m8

>>44977223
>his mom raped an orc
Ah, the old Reddit switcheroo.

>>44978753
No, I mean the concept. It feels like something that could just as easily be chocked up to "I'm a Cleric of Justice" and write some stuff about that.
Monks are a little different.

>>44977380
>Not every game has the main races as carnivorous plant dwarfs, sentient dust-clouds, and a race made of personified abstract concepts.

Which game does that? I'd play it.

>>44978826

I have no idea. I love playing Paladin, I do it almost all the time but I will never create a cleric, not even from the same god and the same everything and I have no idea why.

>>44977741
I like having a variety of races, but with all the splat books and supliments it takes to make an original character concept, and the time and researching involved on learning the massive knot of rules to do it workout gone brewing. If rather play a classless point buy.

The most abstract, functional and simple system I've played that still uses classes was Iron Claw. Simple dice stepping, good low magic that wasn't a big mess of circumstantial magic, classes and multi classing weren't Wasco wacky gamy gimmick explosions, your race had little influence on your stats.

>>44977380
>>44978827
Shitposts like these make want to write-up my carnivorous, acid-farting, tree-dweeling, Aztec, octopi "Elves"

>>44978827

Except for the last thing it reminds me of 4e PHB3, but all the races in that were noted as being extremely rare outside of planar campaigns.

>>44978899
>tfw in one group I'm a multiclassed cleric/paladin

>>44975332
Sounds like budget cuts happened.

>>44978827
>>44978907
I can't remember, but there is a game/setting/ book(?) with robot/golem dwarves and carnivorous plant elves. Part of the reason I stated it. I'll try and find the name.

>>44978731
Paladin
>Hit shit, protect bitches, inspire allies
Cleric
>Healslut

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>>44978943
I want you to look at OP's picture and find the "healslut". Here's a hint, he's wearing armor and has a warhammer to smash in faces when not making miracles. After dishing out divine justice, he applies first aid and asks his god to heal you.

>variety is bad
>an "exotic" character(this is almost always fucking contextual" can't have a personality
>playing some generic bullshit is somehow magically better or worse than something I might actually have to fucking learn about and pay attention too
Honestly, Class variety is great. Fuck you if you hate it.

As far as races go, Go All Human or put in a bunch of "exotic" shit and integrate them into the world. Because I would rather have shit like greedy Wayangs, Honroable Tengu, and power Hungry Goblins. Those can have interesting new takes on the world around them and how they interact with it.
.

>>44978731
Paladins are a legacy thing. They were basically a "Gestalt" between fighters and Clerics. They've come into their own as tanking and alpha-strike specialists.

>>44979157
Tengufag go.

>>44978335
Classes in general are kind of retarded. I enjoy D&D (mostly 2E), but I hate that it became the standard instead of something superior like RuneQuest. What if you went to college and decided to study history, but henceforth wouldn't be able to study math? Physically impossible for you to use a protractor. I'm all for archetypes, but mechanics that state you can't do things because of some arbitrary job title are retarded.

>>44974494

In this day of 3.5, 4e, Pathfinder, and 5e, how does one go about running a classic fantasy adventure of just men and maybe a dwarf or elf without any nontraditional classes?

Without having to learn archaic systems almost nobody plays any more that are a million times more complicated than they need to be

>>44979427
Multiclassing, son.

tieflings and dragonborm are the cancer

>>44979459
Is for faggots

>>44979436
Talk to your group and/or DM.
It's a game of pretend. If you all agree on a concept, especially the DM, then that's the game.

>>44979102
>sexy dress
>cloak to show off his features
>flamboyant posture
>healslut
I bet the fighter ravages that every night.

>>44979427
Earlier additions were worse about this.

There is very little that is "exclusive" to a class beyond class features.
>>44979436
You don't because it's going to be terrible and honestly the only "strength" of later D&D editions is the variety.

>>44979488
Not really, especially if you stop thinking of class as being 100% synonymous with identity and profession.

>>44979488
That's why I'm telling you to do it.

It's not study history vs. study math. It's grow up and live as a farmer vs. go to the city and get an education.

>>44974494
I think you have forgotten Sir Fang, the Vampire Fighter Nobleman from literally the very first game of Dungeons and Dragons ever, run by Gary E. Gygax his fucking self.
Elfgames have been snowflake territory since day one.

>>44978907
People having tastes that go against the hivemind isn't shitposting.

>>44979585
Better than a Thri-keen wizard-paladin-thief-monk-fuckomancer-cavalier multiclass.

>>44979585
I'd allow it. I just don't want half-demon/half-celestial bard/paladin/wizards mixed with steam-powered warforged monk and dragonborn sorcerer/MILF Commander.

>>44979102
And this is why clerics in roleplaying games are a fucking stupid concept.

Doctors swear before all the gods not to harm. A cleric with miraculous powers should be held to an even more stringent standard.

>>44979459
It doesn't really fit into the classic D&D class dynamic. Even when you could multi-class, you had arbitrary restrictions (mages can't cast spells while wearing armor, gnomes can only be illusionists, etc...). Then there was dual-classing, which makes no fucking sense at all.

It's just a weird system in general. It makes a lot more sense to just say "I'm going to learn how to fight with a sword and shield and then I'm going to learn how to cast spells." or whatever other skill you are pursuing. Declare that you'll learn a new skill and then spend experience points (a representation of effort over time) to become proficient. Seems a lot more logical than "I'm a thief so I can't use a spear because reasons."

>People think "variety" is always a good thing.
>People think choosing an obscure race from some way-outside sourcebook is an adequate substitute for creating a character.
>People think that because they call themselves a 'half-demon dragonborn android" in conversation, they don't have to actually any different than they normally do, because saying "I am <race>" is the same thing as roleplaying.
>People on /tg/ will not only defend this, but insist this is the proper way games are supposed to be played, and roleplaying is not a goal to be sought.

It's hilarious that all of you will be so fast to insist "No, I can't play a human, humans are boring I need to be a special, unique race to be a good character", but you couldn't come up with an interesting, compelling character that adds anything to the game either way.

You really should all be banned from playing anything but humans until you actually learn what the fuck a character is.

>>44979731
>>People think "variety" is always a good thing.
It literally is unless every option is shit.
>People think choosing an obscure race from some way-outside sourcebook is an adequate substitute for creating a character.
Except people don't. And there is nothing wrong with that if they fit the setting. If the GM ran a setting we're Thri-Keen were more common than Gnomes would you still be upset at someone playing one.
>>People think that because they call themselves a 'half-demon dragonborn android" in conversation, they don't have to actually any different than they normally do, because saying "I am race"
This never actually happens outside of theory craft. And how is it any differnt from "AYYY LADY LETS GO KILL GOBLINS AND DRINK BEER AND JERK OFF OVER FINE CRAFTSMANSHIP"

>>44979680
Nurse here. Do no harm is the biggest misunderstanding there is. It means to work for the betterment(even if it means amputation) of the patient, not that if you get mugged and kill somebody in self defense that you can no longer perform medicine.
Clerics are agents of gods. If there god doesn't object to, or even encourages sanctioned killing, the cleric can/should.
Also, pacifism. You can try your hardest to not kill if you worship a god of life.
Have you ever played a cleric?

>>44979777
>Except people don't.
So you're just going to straight up assert that no one on the planet has ever substituted race choice for having an actual personality.

This has never happened, every person who ever roleplays does it both correctly and perfectly.

And even if they don't (which you just asserted they did), it's a good thing anyway, because FUCK YOU IT'S THEIR FUN OK?

Compelling stuff.

>>44978335
Know, you end up with meaningless distinctions like Holy Man, Cleric, Priest, and Preacher.

Or Monk, Brawler, Bruiser, and Thug.

Or Fighter, Weapon-Master, Soldier, Mercenary, and Warrior.

Or Rogue, Ninja, Thief, Pickpocket, Burglar, and Cat Burglar.

Or Ranger, Tracker, Hunter, and Scout.

>>44979693
You ever sneak around with a spear?

You know I got to ask. Why do you people give a fuck? I mean how has this horribly impacted your game on any real level? If so find a group better suited to you, if not then I suppose theirs no need to complain.

What makes a "class" non-standard anyway?

Why do people dislike the idea of a "non-standard" class. That's like getting mad there are different types of professions that might be vaguely similar to each other.
>Fucking bullshit, why is there a Nuclear Engineer AND Rocket Scientist. Isn't Mechanic good enough. It's all machines and shit, right?
>>44979654
This is a strawman on so many levels, that I can't help but think you hate multi-classing because you don't understand it. So instead of learning how or just not bothering, you try to find fault in people who do. I know I'm projecting, but I just can't see another reason why?

And please give a better example of a "distasteful" multi-class to you. An actually realistic one.

>>44979851
It's just a minor annoyance. If my neighbor practices bagpipes, I can start a thread to talk about it without wanting to murder him or kill myself.

>>44979825
Like a hunter?

>>44979892
No like a thief

>>44979892
More like Ranger.

>>44979787
>kill somebody in self defense that you can no longer perform medicine.

Clerics in D&D don't kill in self-defense though. They deliberately join a wandering band of scoundrels and killers.

>Clerics are agents of gods. If there god doesn't object to, or even encourages sanctioned killing, the cleric can/should.

Sanctioned killing has always been tightly circumscribed and ritualized in nearly every religion. That's why I can't take D&D seriously.

>>44979654
>>44979654
>shittalking Thri-keen

Friendless loser with no gaems detected.

>>44979809
>Holy Man, Cleric, Priest, and Preacher.
No real distinction here.
>Monk, Brawler, Bruiser, and Thug.
Here is where this starts to break down.

A Monk traditonally is a disciplined mystic from !Not Asia. Who can fight unarmed and take advantage of several super natural abilities and also run around unarmored. Follows a code of honor.

A Brawler is typically a unarmed combatent. Less inclined to be super natural, and can come from anywhere.

Brute is an adjective.

Thug can be any sort of hired muscle.
>Rogue, Ninja, Thief, Pickpocket, Burglar, and Cat Burglar.
Ninja's typically have some sort of supernatural ability and are focused around killing discretely as opposed to thievery.

>>44979887
I don't see why you find it so distasteful beyond "people might rolepaly bad and if they don't I might have to leave my comfort zone because I'm not playing Lord of the Rings anymore"?

>>44975332
Wouldn't combat take forever with that many participants?

>>44979855
>>Fucking bullshit, why is there a Nuclear Engineer AND Rocket Scientist. Isn't Mechanic good enough. It's all machines and shit, right?

Classes aren't jobs, they're archetypes. You have fighters, and that encompasses light infantry, heavy infantry, cavalry, archers, etc.

>And please give a better example of a "distasteful" multi-class to you.

Any. It defeats the point of classes if you can pick a bunch.

>>44979928
Yeah, the crusades were pretty tight.
Look if your suspension of disbelief is to fragile to accept a god of dwarves approves of killing orcs, or go along on a quest that they would approve of (that doesn't have to be scoundrels or killers despite memes) then I don't understand how you think of paladins, much less people who lick toads and wave their fingers to make people vomit blood.

>>44979806
I was referring to the "half-demon android" strawman. Of course people can roleplay badly. I don't see why restricting people's options helps that.

>>44980017
>Yeah, the crusades were pretty tight

>implying G_d approved of the Crusades

>>44980043
What, did he come down to earth, have a tea party with you, and bring it up?
How big of you to speak on his behalf.

>>44979972
>A Monk traditonally is a disciplined mystic from !Not Asia.

A Monk traditionally has been a Christian scribe from Europe. Literally centuries old tradition, chap.

Some Yank deciding to watch Bruce Lee in the 1970s is no excuse to continue using such a dated cliche.

>>44980033
>I don't see why restricting people's options helps that.

Because if you want to get better at creating and playing a character, it's not a good idea to start at the most extreme end of the spectrum?

Because if you can't make a compelling simple human character that is actually interesting, you sure as fuck can't do it with a Tiefling or a Dragonborn.

>>44980068
>implying She did with the P*pe

>>44980043
>>implying G_d approved of the Crusades

How would you know? The Pope said that they were approved, and he's the one who speaks directly to god. How do we know? Because he says so. Which is literally the same reason anyone accepts that, you know, a god exists at all.

>>44979731

>"I'll take Things Nobody Thinks for $500, Alex."
>"Okay, 'This facsimile made of bundles of dry grass features heavily into Anon's statements."
>"What is a strawman?"

>>44979972
I'm fine with playing a High-Fantasy game, it's just when I tell player that it's a Low-Fantasy, they think there's a minority quota that has to be filled, and want to put in their Half-Elf/Half-Halfling assassin, and then I have an entire party of this.

>>44979997
>You have fighters, and that encompasses light infantry, heavy infantry, cavalry, archers, etc.
The issue with D&D classes is that the occupy a weird sub-section between job and archetype. Some are more clear cut than others. A Cavalier in Pathfinder functions very differently from a fighter who just sits on a mount.
>Any. It defeats the point of classes if you can pick a bunch.
Not really. Character's are character's first and foremost. What is stopping a smart fighter from deciding to take some time off and learn some spells and gain a level in wizard. He can still fight and cast some spells, but he can't do both well. You can't be good at EVERYTHING, but you can certainly dabble in quite a few things.

Not to mention people accruing a variety of skills and shit over time, or doing shit that complements each other.

>>44974494
Yeah what's up with people playing creative and interesting characters instead of ripping off the characters in Lord of the Rings for the millionth time

>>44980158
>Insisting a post is a strawman to hide the fact that it describes you perfectly

>>44980133
*tips menorah*

>>44980106
Except they aren't really extremes. There really isn't anything inherently easier about making an interesting character who has "human" written on the Race tab than Dwarf or Tiefling.

>>44980217
It was a serious question though.

>>44980232
Yeah, maybe if you're playing a setting like Star Trek where every alien race is just humans painted a different color.

In which case, well I don't want to have this conversation with a child who can't understand why that's fucking stupid.

>>44980159
Maybe.

Just maybe.

Hear me out.

The people you play with aren't interested in "Low Fantasy" so you should either bench the idea for a group that is interested or talk to them.

>>44980235 >>44980120

>>44980290
That's not a refutation.

>>44978335
The distinction between sorcerers and wizards makes perfect sense fluff-wise. It's only crunch-wise that you scratch your head and think "what a crazy coincidence that these two wildly different concepts both draw spells from the exact same list, both cast according to Vancian rules, both fill the same role in the party, and both have more or less the same strengths and weaknesses".

>>44979972
>A Monk traditonally is a disciplined mystic from !Not Asia.
Except when they're not. Sometimes they're drunken masters. Sometimes they're Clerics. Sometimes they're just a guy that has more fists than shirts.

>Brute is an adjective.
brute
bro͞ot/
noun
noun: brute; plural noun: brutes
1.
a savagely violent person or animal.

>Ninja's typically have some sort of supernatural ability and are focused around killing discretely as opposed to thievery.
So you're a person with a short sword who kills people, sometimes takes things, and is sneaky, and can throw magic smoke balls, as opposed to the rogue, who has a short sword, kills people, often takes things, and is sneaky, and throws regular smoke balls.

Totally different from the thief, who has a short sword, is sneaky, takes things, and sometimes kills people, and very different from the burglar, who uses a club to sometimes kill people while he is sneakily taking things, and the cat burglar, who does the above in tight leather pants.

And dont get my started on pickpockets. They almost never kill people, and they use knives!

>>44980169
At that point, you should just forgo a class-based system entirely, and use a purely skill-based system. Is the idea of a character dedicating themselves to one style of adventuring realistic? Neither are hit points. D&D is a game, first and foremost, some abstractions need to be made.

>>44980258
>Yeah, maybe if you're playing a setting like Star Trek where every alien race is just humans painted a different color.
So your average fantasy setting then? And shit, Psychologically speaking, a Tiefling would more or less function as whatever race spawned it would(typically human) with some bad bullying experiences.

Anything else can be fixed by merely talking to your player about how a race fits into the world, their culture, etc. The only advantage standard races fucking have is the fact that they ARE humans with funny ears/feet/stature.

Shit Halfings(Hobbits) were literally a subrace of humans.

>>44980310
But it is.

>2016
>still believing in "Just" War Theory

>>44980322
>The distinction between sorcerers and wizards makes perfect sense fluff-wise.

Educate me.

>>44980261
We discuss our games ahead of time
>"Hey anon, what's the next game going to be?"
"Well I'm thinking a Low-Fantasy game, mostly human, not a lot of magic. You guys cool with that?
>"Golly gee wiz, anon, sure thing."
I normally sort it out or ask if they still want to play.
Maybe.

Just maybe.

Hear me out.

You're jumping to a lot of conclusions here. You're even telling me that I'm "afraid of leaving my comfort zone".

>>44980359
Wizards study.

Sorceror's mom was a whore.

>>44980359
Wizards study magic and do rituals to invoke it.

Sorcerers are people who cast spells with force of personality, with demon or dragon blood, or had some weird comic stuff happen. Maybe their parents did and evil pact or something.

>>44980389
Perfect.

I'm down with this, latest part has the most mundane adventures, plague-ridden city, necromancers et al, being sorted out by a warforged and tiefling heavy party. Shit's stupid yo.

>>44980389
It just occured to me that Sorceror's casting with Charisma makes some sense, because of the high probability that their ancestors seduced, were seduced by, or made a deal with some supernatural being, and as such likely were more attractive and had better social skills than normal.

>>44980389
>>44980405

What the fuck

Why not just say, "My wizard didn't actually study, he just got his powers from this pact."

It just makes it confusing when you use two synonyms to make the distinction.

>>44980335
>Sometimes they're drunken masters.
>Sometimes they're just a guy that has more fists than shirts.
An archetype from kung-fu movies.
> Sometimes they're Clerics
Name one fucking fantasy game were "Monk" was used to refer to Holy Men.

>a savagely violent person or animal
My fuck up. I meant that it's a common descriptor like thug. That describes plenty of classes. I guess Fighters, Barbarians, Monks, and Evokers are all the same thing are having them all exist in the same system is a waste of time.
>Ninja v Rogue
You now a sneaky guy who throws throwing stars, uses magical attacks, can turn invisible, make shadow clones, employ exotic weaponry, use ki, and may be trained in the martial arts.

and

a sneaky guy who has connections to the seedy underworld, Lives in urban areas, often hired by street gangs, has no magical ability, has a repertoire of skills, and specializes in finding and disabling traps.

Are the same fucking thing!

>>44980446
Because a Wizard doing that still studies out of spellbook, still needs to cast spells, has a familiar, and scribes scrolls despite not actually understanding them. And somehow uses Int for doing something that would supposedly have no need for intelligence.

>>44980489
>still needs to cast spells
Still needs that book to cast spells and they prepare spells.

Here's an analogy
>A boulder needs to be lifted
>A Wizard needs to constantly read how to use a fork lift every day out of a book
>A Sorcerer can just kinda get lucky with a fork lift a few times a day
>A Psion just lifts the rock with his mind for as long as he can hold out.

>>44980446
Pacts are Warlocks, but I digress.

Wizards are more tactical in that you have to memorize spells before you use them. This means if you didn't have the right spell prepared, you up the famed fecal creak with just your hands.
Sorcerers can act as a party face, since they use Charisma instead of intelligence. They can even cast spells on the fly, much like having mana. They also get different benefits depending on where their power comes from, and use a lot of meta-magic. However, they cannot cast as many spells, and their less than normal origin can catch up with them quickly.

>>44980466
>Name one fucking fantasy game were "Monk" was used to refer to Holy Men.
Final Fantasy. Which is the WORST when it comes to meaningless distinctions in class names.

>You now a sneaky guy who throws throwing stars, uses magical attacks, can turn invisible, make shadow clones, employ exotic weaponry, use ki, and may be trained in the martial arts.
Rogues can throw stars, are great at using magic items, that third one is from Naruto, also employ exotic weaponry, Ki is basically unique to 3.5 Rogues, and everyone that fights uses Martial Arts, learn what that means.

>a sneaky guy who has connections to the seedy underworld, Lives in urban areas, often hired by street gangs, has no magical ability, has a repertoire of skills, and specializes in finding and disabling traps.
A rogue needs to be NONE of these things, and in fact are often skilled in the use of magic items.

>>44980542
The more I hear of sorcerers, the more idiotic they sound.

>>44975055
good thing you're not in my group, GM would fucking rape you lol

>>44980576
>Ki is basically unique to 3.5 Rogues,
Meant ninjas, my bad.

Other games that use Ninjas either have Ki, Qi, or the like as a somewhat common thing, or just have Ninjas as sneaky ass mundane killers. Like Rogues. But with dorky kabuki theater clothes.

>Tolkien invented fantasy, we all have to be characters who would be heroes in LOTR
Elves are supposed to be distant, mysterious, rare creatures. Goblins are all over the goddamn place in D&D. In any setting where an elf could conceivably be evil, it makes sense that there can be good goblins. That doesn't even seem that special snowflake to me, unless it was like, "there has never been a good goblin before my character. S/he is the first one EVER and so oppressed but I don't want the DM to have NPCs actually be mean to him/her. Just let me describe him/her moping."

>>44980585
Well, they can easily get away with making Int a dump stat, and are often very bard-like in their romantic ambitions.

Which probably runs in the family when you think about it.

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>>44980576
>Final Fantasy. Which is the WORST when it comes to meaningless distinctions in class names
Fucking what? Please point me to what game had Monk and Holy Man be the same thing. Because in just about every FF game I recall, Monks were kung-fu dudes in pajamas.
Knowing how to use a magic item is different from using magic yourself
>Fighter and Wizard are they same thing because they can both use magic items.
>that third one is from Naruto
Not really. Do you really think Naruto invented Ninjas making illusory copies of themselves.

>>44980591
How? Making some 70 AC enemy that the fighter couldn't touch either? I'd just hang back and let the casters do the heavy lifting, like any martial would have to do anyway.

>>44980585
They weren't exactly supposed to be common. Normally Aasimars, Tieflings, and other horrid thing, and occasionally the odd human who is related to demons. I could be wrong, but I think they were originally supposed to be evil for that reason. Either way, they are essentially Merlin.

>>44974494

Then:
>a 40k thread
>an awesome boss fight story
>a bad player venting thread
>a 40k thread
>edition wars
>a setting design thread
>elf slave wat do?
>a 40k thread

Now:
>a quest thread
>40k general
>CYOA general
>a quest thread
>filename general (but they won't put general in the title)
>quest thread general
>a quest thread
>a 40k thread

I can be the only one who's annoyed by this.

>>44979904
Use a foldable 10 foot pole with a spearhead.

>>44980585
Why? They're magic users who get their power from birthright rather than study, worship, or meditation.

>>44978826
Monks should have been a fighter archetype with casting that's a mix of battlemaster and eldritch knight.

>>44980466
>Name one fucking fantasy game were "Monk" was used to refer to Holy Men.
Guild Wars

>>44980664
Weren't sorcerers more associated with dragons than demons? Or is that a recent-ish change?

>>44980585
I like to think of them as being powered by personality and expression.

>>44980652
Alright, you're right about monks and ninjas. They're the mundane thing + weaboo fighting magic. Im still right about the other 20 or so I listed so I guess I win though.

>>44976847
Don't be ridiculous anon. Many people on this board have severe autism

>>44980712
Oh, that's right. I must be thinking of something else like a Warlock.

>>44980722
No you are not. You're either close minded or just not that creative.

>>44980682
I don't miss elf slave wat do or edition wars, and neither should you.

>>44980712
>Weren't sorcerers more associated with dragons than demons
Depends on the setting. Pathfinder has a shit ton of bloodlines. Ranging from Dragons, Demons, Angels, Royalty, Nanites, and (my favorite) Radiation.

Basically getting exposed to magical shit during pregnancy will result in a sorcerer popping out.

>>44980748
Good argument, I shall recoil in shame forthwith. I see now, the error of my ways, and shall medidate upon your wisdom.

>>44980466
>Name one fucking fantasy game were "Monk" was used to refer to Holy Men.

Diablo.

>>44980775
Good. Finally someone acknowledges my razor sharp wit.

>>44980658
Had a player rage quit because he also played a barbarian with almost no AC and got rocked hard after the one or two rounds of him doing "as much damage" as possible.

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>>44980777
>>44980702
Granted D&D monks are basically asian holy men, with the religion part ripped up. Both these games still have them as "Kung-Fu" Dudes in Pajama's as opposed to priests.

Guild Wars has them pulling double duty. So does Ragnarok iirc, now that we're talking about MMO's.

>>44974564
They could do it since 1973 Greyhawk, normally by being considered fighing men/magic users/thieves. An elf could give up advancement in the two other classes to advance as a thief only, but that was highly unusual.

>>44980697
No that'd be fuckin stupid, Monks should be monks who disregard magic entirely but have extraordinary ability instead of supernatural shit.
They should actually be able to air walk without the spell using that insane movement speed, have bullshit damage reduction, etc.

>>44974494

>A dark-elf thief-sorcerer
Depends on how the setting does Drow, but ok. They're a sneaky mage, big whoop.
>A dragonborn paladin
If we're talking the 4e fluff they're fucking built for it culturally.
>A goblin ranger-occultist
Kinda odd, but goblins strike me as weird mother fuckers so you could make it work
>A half-orc barbarian
The most standard barbarian the world has ever seen.
>A warforged cleric-monk
Ok you got me on this one, the fuck is he doing? Is he trying to be a medieval monk but still kick ass for the lord?

So yeah, what's the problem? Multi-classing or non-standard races?

>>44980881
>hey should actually be able to air walk without the spell using that insane movement speed,
This is a big issue I have with D&D, and one of the reasons I think it's busted.

They always frame anything being supernatural as "magic" as opposed to everything magical being supernatural.

The Monks ability to walk on air is supernatural, but he isn't casting a spell. That's just what he DOES.

>>44980087
This.
I want them to be renamed to Cultivator (Xuizhen doesn't have direct translation) and follow the theme of using ki-based magic to reach immortality through training.

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>>44977391
I'll love it always

>>44974494
I don't have a problem with more exotic races per se, but I still consider the "typical adventurer party" to be composed of mostly of humans, dwarves and elves and maybe one guy from some unusual race. Having everybody play some special snowflake race just seems disjointed.
Also I'm not really fond of them making tiefling and dragonborn core races from DnD 4th edition onwards. I'd consider core races to be ones that can easily be ported to just about any DnD setting, and common enough that most adventurers would come from them. Rarer and more unusual races should be left to splatbook. Now I'll have to figure some way to incorporate tieflings and dragonborn into my homebrew setting because I can hardly ban people from playing stuff from the core rulebooks.

>>44980936
Is that the guy from the Business Adventure novels?

>>44980922
I don't want them to have supernatural/magic shit at all. I want them to literally be able to super human shit like squeezing through spaces smaller than his head or achieve effective flight by being able to run up thin air while using that slow fall shit.

>>44980992
Fuck if I know

I just like the blonde's "If this bitch don't shut the fuck up" face

>>44980967
How is
>a minority descended from super diluted fiend blood
and
>lizard men who descended from dragons
Anymore difficult to add to a setting than people who live in trees or a minority of midgets with heavy feet?

I legit don't understand this. Also of course you can ban shit in the core rulebook.

>>44981015
>I legit don't understand this.
How? There are people living in forests and midgets in real life.

>>44981072
And there are people with fiend blood and lizardmen who descended from dragons in fantasy! So simple.

>>44981072
So there are 700 year old people with pointed ears living in the world right now?

>>44981103
>>44981118
I don't disagree, I'm just telling you why people feel that way.

>>44981015
Well, I suppose they're theoretically more difficult to integrate into any arbitrary setting in that they may require the addition of demons and dragons in a way that gives appropriate context to those races' existence. D&D settings don't often have big problems with that, though.

>>44974494
Half-orc barbarian is a pretty classic archetype, fuck you OP.

Also, it doesn't matter what kind of fucked up character you're playing as long as you can justify it. A speshul race and class don't cover for lack of a personality, but they don't necessarily prevent you from having one.

The issue is that the kind of person who plays a character like that is highly unlikely to have a good personality, if they have one at all.

>>44974494
Nothing is wrong with either group of parties you created for this strawman propped-up example. Both groups contain members of races and classes that can work OR NOT WORK based on the setting and tone.

Being vanilla and traditional is no better than being strange and new, because neither selection matters a damn bit when it comes to actually having fun and making a CHARACTER, a person with personality and emotions. A drow spellthief or warforged saint can be just as flat and boring or as interesting and heart-wrenching as a dwarven guardsman or an elf pickpocket.

You know what I miss from "classic" fantasy? The spiritual/religious aspects from LoTR and Narnia. Fantasy has gotten so metropolitan that it's hard to make your race or class compelling no matter how goofy they are.
Another way to make fantasy races interesting would be to have them function differently from humans in any meaningful way, sociologically or biologically.

>>44976072
You could try to find a group that plays more classic races and classes. They are out there, you just need to find 'em

Have all the people complaining about people playing weird races/classes never seen those fuckers who play every Dwarf/Elf/etc as a hardcore stereotype

>Durin McBeardHammer polishes his ax over a flagon of ale, while Corelan Floweranus recites poetry and gazes disdainfully at the humans

>>44981234
>Another way to make fantasy races interesting would be to have them function differently from humans in any meaningful way, sociologically or biologically.
See, that's kind of difficult, because in generally they're going to get played as slightly different humans anyways. You really can't make your fantasy race too different , otherwise people stop giving a shit

>>44981327
You don't have to go nuts with it. Just watch a nature documentary or some anthropology reading. Have a race that can only see in infrared and... celebrates new years in February? I dunno, anything other than HUMAN BUT: LIZARD.

>>44981418
>. celebrates new years in February?
Are you implying the Chinese aren't human?

>>44981469
Are you trying to say that they are?

Is this really a problem for most people's groups?
Only 1 in my group is playing a rarer race (2 if you consider half orcs uncommon) and that was just because they were tired of playing elves.

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This contrarian nostalgia for the good old days of RPGs, and the hate for anything new or weird or interesting is shit.

After almost two decades of playing RPGs, Im sick and fucking tired of the simplistic and frankly boring selection of races and classes from old systems. Ive grown tired of reading about another fucking human saving the world.

Give me 7 foot tall dragon people who have far more paladins than any other race and live for justice. Give me catfolk swashbucklers and thieves who cavort around the cities of men looking for any oddjob or opportunity to fight. Give me french wolf people who are experts at wine and cheese and killing a man after he calls their wives or daughters a bitch. Give me cultures and people who are more interesting than the shit from the core AD&D race list. Incidentally, two of the three races mentioned above come from an old D&D setting, guess which one?

>>44974494
That elf is so cute.

>>44981925
Hell, I wouldn't mind playing a human or elf or dwarf so much if it weren't always the exact fucking same culture.

Wouldn't hurt if maybe halflings and gnomes didn't blur together so much, too.

>>44977391
Bullshit, people still play games like that.

>>44974494
Hey, you manged to type all that without any ellipsis.

Good for you.

>>44979928
Go tell that to a priest of Saturn or Poseidon, you know people who were also active duty or former army officers who occasionally had to stab people. Hell, go bitch to a priest of Mithras about that.

And even with 'peaceful' religions monks/priests have also been warriors.

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>People are so retarded they don't realize that their precious simplistic fantasy can literally be played right now with no changes without any issue in their own groups
>People stupid enough to believe that old fantasy settings didn't have some of their crazy gonzo homebrew shit with ray guns and aliens and flumphs
>Not embracing your own crazy settings with classic archetypes, or traditional fantasy settings with weird and interesting classes
>I'm too stupid to just find the type of games that I like, too absolutely retarded to find my own balance and go with it
>Instead I have to complain on it on /tg/ about how 'oh le good old days!' like every other self centered, opinionated faggot has done since the dawn of time
>I am this much of a worthless piece of fucking garbage

>>44974494
>1437 anno hegirae
>Still playing dungeons&dragonesque fantasy
I don't want to say "C'mon it's 2016", but come on, it's 2016. There is more out there. You cannot survive just eating chicken nuggets all your fucking life.

>>44974494
>I can't be the only one who's annoyed by this.
No, thousands of people suffer from autism like yours.
3/5 of your "now" examples are even very obvious race-class combinations.

>>44981925
>contrarian

Because god forbid you accept people honestly disagree with you. And nice passive aggressive implication that classic fantasy is uninteresting, really makes you look clever and mature when you do that.

>>44982841
Are you trolling or do you really think its as simple as 'just finding the type of game you like'?

Even IF you want to subject yourself to the bullshit of playing online the success rate is abysmal.

>>44982884
>Are you trolling or do you really think its as simple as 'just finding the type of game you like'?

Here, let me help you with that.

>>44948463

There you go. Never respond to me again.

>>44979731
Why does it have to be one or the other? You can roll up a warforged monk/cleric and give it a pretty good backstory. I'm sure more than a few here had to deal with Dwarf McBeard the drunken warrior that loves axes.

>>44976072
Sounds like you don't mean with that group. Move out and find a new one.

>>44974494
Those both look fine to me. There are some fucking stupid races out there, though. What's next, fucking Chakats?

>>44975365
Both the typical dwarf who loves beer and killing orcs and the "twist" dwarf who shaves his beard and drinks wine against the will of his people have been done to death.

>>44982958
>Chakats

You dare to utter that heretical name?

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>>44974494
>Oh noooooooooooooooooooo people are having fun the wrong way

Half of the examples in the second list are very well-established races (if we're talking Eberron, and if we're not it's a homebrewed setting and who knows what crazy shit is there), so you're literally complaining about one race common to the setting being more acceptable than other race common to the setting because muh grandfather clause.

>>44982866
"Classic" fantasy is shit. It is incredibly boring and with good reason. None of the settings that were published after 1980 were "classic" fantasy.

Those two races I referenced were from the Sword Coast of Mystara. Published in the early 80s, it had all kinds of odd and interesting races. D&D hasn't been "classic" fantasy in many decades, in fact it was discarded fairly early on. Forgotten Realms, Mystara, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, so many early settings had strange and odd races, with strange and odd classes.

It is a false good ole days, just like the old people and conservatives who have discarded the shit parts of the past and only think about the supposed good times from their childhood. What they want is the cheap simplicity of their early days in roleplaying, and its just as terrible and shitty as it was then, but we now can see it for the shit it was.

>>44982963
I have only seen the second type of dwarf in Dragon Age. Nearly all media tends to portray Dwarves as the first one. So please enlighten me as to what other media protrays them as the second type, so I can go peruse something that isnt a walking stereotype.

>>44974494
>Not everyone is a human
>Dwarves and elves can exist outside of certain established archetypes

I see nothing wrong with this. In fact, I welcome my new brown elf barbarian overladies.

The thing I hate most about these threads isn't even the whining about the 'good old days' and shit, as there is at least some kind of merit to the argument.

My problem comes with the hilariously and obnoxiously bad strawman the classic-fags spew. No, having a unique race of furries or weird bug people is not the same as >>44978907 this garbage. Every race trying to be unique and different is not the same as a bunch of adjectives thrown around, fuck off with that shit already. I'm so tired of seeing this fallacious argument.

>>44980591
Your GM is a bad GM.

>>44983040
Know thy enemy. Familiarity breeds contempt, contempt feeds hatred, and hatred is the sword of the zealous.
Fear of a name only increases fear of the thing itself.

>>44983293
I forgot about that imperial passage.

Seriously though, Chakats are pure cancer that should be all but forgotten.

>>44980825
The issue is barbarians both have more health and more damage than a fighter. The only thing they are missing out on is heavy armor. If the heavy armor is supposedly making the difference then anyone but fighters and paladins are fucked regardless.

Killing, by the conventional rules, is better than drawing out the fight due to the concept of expendable resources of a pc vs a npc.

>>44983314
I find stories of idiot GMs inserting them into 40K and throwing shitfits when they get purged with extreme prejudice to be immensely amusing, and well worth remembering them.

>>44983349
I guess they have one use then. I've read at least one Chakat story and laughed my ass of at how the DM was described after it was killed.

>>44983349
>I find stories of idiot GMs inserting them into 40K and throwing shitfits when they get purged with extreme prejudice to be immensely amusing, and well worth remembering them.
Got any links? These sound hilarious.

>>44974494
Getting annoyed by this sort of thing is kind of silly. To me at least, as long as you discuss with your DM where your character comes from, and they agree to it, anything is game.

When setting up my games, I make sure that my world is flexible enough in the creation stages that my players can get what they want from it. What counts as a monster depends entirely on the setting, and as DM you need to be willing to go off the beaten track a little bit. My current party consists of one human, one elf, two lizardfolk and a half giant, and I just adjusted my setting's history to make that viable. Not to say that there won't be problems arising from half the party looking like monsters, but in a good number of locations (including where they start) the people are pretty used to seeing a variety of species living together. There is one very wealthy nation who will trade with literally anybody civilised enough to understand money, and literally sell government power (and thereby finance the empire) to the highest citizen bidder on an annual basis. Bingo! Traditionally monstrous races living among the humans.

Use a little creativity and you can have your players play a game they want to play, that will feel unique and interesting to them, and allows for them to have their pet character concept. Not every game needs to be !Gandalf, !Gimli, !Legolas, !Aragorn and !Bilbo on an adventure in Genericia.

As for people who think that backstory=character, and snowflakes= creativity, nothing can save them, least of all having to play as Dwarven Fighter no.34768726453.

>>44983529
I'm on my way to bed, but here's one.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Chakats_Meet_the_Hammer_of_the_Emperor
I know there are more, but it's the only one on 1d4chan and I'm reluctant to look elsewhere, lest I find horrors.

>>44979928
But anon, killing the undead isn't killing.

>>44975664
Child/willfully ignorant manchild detected.

I'm not the lizard guy, but 20 years ago I was 13 and my first character was some homebrew gnoll fighter. Snowflake characters have existed for as long as there have been teenagers. Deal with it.

>>44977105
No, you are crying about a problem that literally doesn't exist except in your own feeble brain. Whether we play some LotFP game with simple, traditional classes or some modern setting with snowflakey custom races and classes what actually matters is the quality of the player themselves. People like you who cry about change don't actually have to participate in any of it. But I'm sure it does feel good to stomp your lil feet and clench your fists on the Internet doesn't it? Do you feel better after making your special little thread? I hope so.

>>44974494
Then:
>A human fighter
>A human cleric
>An elvish thief
>A dwarf fighter
>A human wizard
Now:
>A dark-elf thief-sorcerer
>A dragonborn paladin
>A goblin ranger-occultist
>A half-orc barbarian
>A warforged cleric-monk
I can't be the only one who's thankful by this.

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>>44974494
I'd usually leave the tone up for the GM. If you want to run something like OSR dungeon crawl where elf is a class, it's up to you. If you want to run some ridiculous, colourful high-fantasy with magical airships, dragonpeople and elves from under the earth, then go ahead.
Personally I am fond of both - variety is spice of life, after all.

Of course some people will use uncommon races as creative crutch, but the other option's not appealing either - making strict and tired archetypical characters, wizened wizards, drinking&brawling&bearded dwarf fighters, mysterious elves and whatnot. A good roleplayer can make both work.

In class-based system I am up for more classes - those that have interesting mechanics or flavour behind them. Can make the playing much more enjoyable.

>>44983857
You're not the only one, not by a longshot. And even then, racial diversity depends on the setting. Is it a setting with multiple settlements of multiple races, or are humans by far the most dominant race?

>>44974494
What is wrong with trying to make unique characters? Of course there is a point where things become ridiculous, but in my gaming group noone cares about this as long as we have fun.
If you are so annoyed by this why don't you bring it up in your group? Surely you will be able to find a compromise if you don't act like a total sperg. People have different goals when creating a character, some like it old school some try to break the "cliches", the only way to find the middle ground is to talk about it.

>>44982909
>never respond to me again

Why? Because you don't like it when you post nonsense and get called out on it? You posted a link to an OSR thread, so what. That does not magically fix anything nor give you non shitty players.

>>44982909
Detecting lethal levels of sodium.

>>44975055
>Implying rage beats karmic strike+robilar's gambit+decisive strike

>>44979731
>Be me
>Play a hellbred paladin/knight/hellreaver
>Drive most of the plot forwards, play each aspect of my character as far as I can reasonably take it
I'm confused as to why you think "choosing an obscure race from some way-outside sourcebook" makes it impossible to roleplay

>>44974494
I want to fuck that elf.

>>44984034
You are quite literally complaining about other people's games rather than trying to find your own. If it bothers you so much try making your own games with your enjoyed content rather than demand everyone cater to your own shit.

"You think it's so easy to find a game where you have only bog standard players with bog standard classes?"

You're in a thread half full of people with people who agree with you. Recruit some of them and FUCKING PLAY AND HAVE FUN.

They're RIGHT THERE you RETARD.

>>44980846
When I said Diablo I meant Diablo 1.

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>>44982638
But it's not what's popular anymore. You're never gonna see a RPG book with a cover that looks like it came off of Iron Maiden or Slayer or in general have that Conan the Barbarian look.

>>44977162
This has gotta be a joke

>>44985745
Kelly is a "political" cartoonist working for the Onion. Now guess whether it is or nor

I run a Greyhawk 5E game as such there are no Dragonborn or Thielflinfs. Find an older gaming crowd playing a game in a defined campaign setting free of this anime faggotry.

My first rpg character was when I was like 8 and it was a mgic shadow thief/rogue. As in an actual shadow that lost it's person.

Snowflake characters are nothing new, rather the stringent choices in the book stifles the imagination.

>>44987551

Greyhawk has Tieflings.

>>44980694
This, sorcerers are a whole other kind of magician. With sorcerers you explore themes of legacies and just raw power.

Wizards explore themes of lore, study, experimentation, and discovery.

>>44988119
Wut?

>>44988282
The themes are different.

Too bad they share, like, 90% of their mechanics.

Imagine a class that's called "trancer" who is the same as the barbarian but instead of rage goes into a trance of tranquility that improves DEX instead of CON, rounds based on INT and has a different skill list.

Is this really worth an entire new class?

>>44984592
Edgy faggot detected.

>>44988399
IMO, yes.

>>44988044
That's fine. For an 8 year old. If you still had a character like that at ten, you should kill yourself.

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>>44974494
What's so bad about the paladin and the barbarian?

>>44988399
Well as of 5e their mechanics are significantly different.

Sorcerers get abilities depending on their legacy, and they have points that allow them to work metamagic to their spells. That emphasizes the raw power they're part of and use.

Wizards recover spells easier, learn new spells easier, and have unique abilities depending on their arcane tradition.

>>44988475
When I grew up I put away such childish notions of childishness.

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>>44974494
>People for years tried to make a half-dragon
>They scrapped it in 3.5, but it was ridiculous unbalanced
>They tried to mend it with Races of Dragon. Still shit
>Then they created the Dragonborn
>Sperglords rejoiced
>mfw

>>44974494
You clearly were not alive and gaming during the time you're fantasizing about.

>>44987551
>>44988119
>>44988379

Tieflings in Greyhawk are descendants of Demons. Exceedingly rare enough to not allow them as a PC race.

>>44980359
A wizard has studied and trained to understand magic. They've memorized the gestures and words needed to bring a spell into effect.

A sorcerer, is someone who's mom fucked beasts or demons.

>>44978421
The Favored Soul is to the Cleric what the Sorcerer is to the Wizard. It is the same shit.
Altough, the Favored Soul get wings later on. I don't know what the hell what they were aiming at with this.

>>44988399
Yes, actually.It is.

>>44988725
They were aiming at..
>>44988044

>>44988549
90% their class is still the spell lists. Which share most of their spells.

Yeah, the spell points are good. The schools are ok. The thing you are going to do most of the time however is slinging spells, and those are largely the same. Using the same mechanics, covering the same purposes, same combat roles, etc.

>>44988759
>>44988446
And that's why 3.5 has like a hundred classes.

>>44988779
Makes sense.

>>44974494
I'm a glass-is-half-full kind of guy. The way I look at it, now that all these wacky race/class combos have become the norm, being a plain old human single class character makes you stick out again.

>>44977391
Well, "everybody is anime" is a common trend nowdays. Which is shit. Very, very shit.

>>44988846
It's like having no tattoos on a tattoo convention. Every fucking one will stare at you wondering "what the fuck is that?"

>>44988853

Seems like most common and popular anime is "Teen Witches go to all Girls boarding school soap opera" anime.

I loved Robotech, Macross, MD Geist, Appleseed, Armored Troopers VOTOMS, Venus war, Akira and a bunch of the gritter action oriented hardboiled anime of the 1990s (dare I say Japanimation?) that doesn't seem to be as popular as current effeminate cutesy soap opera art and story lines.

>>44979981
No. Henchmen have like 1HD.
Hirelings avoid combat.

No weeabo speshul fightan moves in the system.

>>44988965
Oh yeah. Girly, sluty, over the top and far-fetched "my sword is big and my parents are dead, look at all my powers" is the norm. Even the animes they watch are shit. It's just too much shit. Maybe I'm getting too old for this shit.

>>44988649

“Dragon Slayers, And Proud of It!” By Larry Elmore. It was on page 7 of the AD&D 2e Players Handbook which came out in 1989. I was 10 years old. I miss those summer nights of playing for hours till we could barely stay awake anymore. I am still forever DM and two of my players from 6th grade still play with me on a weekly basis (we all went separate ways after high school but are together again now).

It's classic fantasy for me and my group. Clyde Caldwell, Larry Elmore, Keith Parkinson (RIP) and Jeff Easley dreamed the worlds we played it and still do.

>>44974862
Half orcs were assassins back in the day.

>>44974494
Then:
>2 (Human) Fighting-men
>A (Human) Cleric
>A (Human) Magic-User

Then:
>A (Human) Fighter
>A (Human) Thief
>A (Human) Cleric
>An Elf

Then:
>A Dwarf Fighter
>A Halfling Thief
>A Human Cleric
>An Elf Wizard

Then:
>A Half-Orc Barbarian
>A Goblin Shaman
>A Thri-Kreen Psionicist
>A Human Skeleton Thief

Then:
>A Half-Dragon Human Swordsage
>A Half-Fiend Centaur Warlock
>A Dragonborn Cleric of Tiamat
>A Necropolitan Psion (Erudite)

I can't be the only one who's annoyed by this.

>>44988427
How so? My character doesn't brood and has a wry sense of humour typically. Closest I came to 'edgy' territory was when his family died during the campaign, and I think having a character be angry at that is reasonable.

Educate me though, what about my character is edgy?

>>44980466
Heroes of Might and Magic 3

>>44974494

>everyone made characters separately and were going to tweak them when we meet up
>everyone made humans, all lawful neutral and lawful evil with no communication
>barely need any tweaking to fit together while still having just enough conflict between them

This should be a fun one, usually if people have to change their original ideas too much they lose some interest.

>>44980652
Not that anon, but of course not. It started with Illusionists.

>>44990218
That is a good group.

Superior in every way, to some fuckef up mashed together mix of halfthis and halfthats.

>>44974494
>I can't be the only one who's annoyed by this.
D&D is no longer a wargame knockoff. Get over it already.

>>44975365
As someone who semi-frequently plays nonstandard races (usually it's because they have some racial ability or something I want for my build, or so I can set up some bad pun about something), not everyone who plays one does so because they want to be speshul.

Yes, a lot of them do, but that's not necessarily what's going on when someone plays something nonstandard.

Or, to put it this way,
>You can make interesting, extraordinary characters without giving them scales or making them a fucking druid-paladin-barbarian-sorcerer hybrid.
And you can make (and roleplay) interesting, entertaining characters who are nonstandard races or unusual combinations of race(s) and/or class(es).

tl;dr the secret is to have a character (worth roleplaying) behind the gimmick, so you're not just roleplaying a race/class combo

My group:
>Human paladin (me). From a very violent religious extremist church and he is slowly questioning if violence is always the right answer.
>Dwarf Cleric who likes to get drunk and occasionally does stupid shit but he's a bro.
>Human wizard. A huge risk-taker for the promise of making a name for himself.
>Elf druid. She sleeps around but doesn't do it when important shit is happening in the plot.
>Human ranger. Rarely speaks. Rarely does anything other than ranger shit. Stays out of the spotlight.
>Tiefling warlock. Generally an asshole to everyone but cool towards the party.

I'm blessed to have a group of people who don't try to be special snowflakes.

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>>44977391

>uses a picture from Dragonlance
>the game with the gold skinned, grey haired mage with hourglasses in his eyes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X6VoFBCE9k

>>44990843

Nobody fucking cares, dude.

Why do people on /tg/ post about their uninteresting parties like anyone fucking cares? NOBODY CARES MAN. NOBODY GIVES A SHIT. THANKS FOR ADDING NOTHING TO THE DISCUSSION.

>>44990971
Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

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>>44974494
It's ancient grognard nerds like you that need to suffer a heart attack and go the way of Gygax so the hobby doesn't suffer your outdated influences anymore.

>>44990843
Tiefling warlock, hanging out with a paladin eh?

Faggotry level 7.

>>44990984

It's an opinion shared by everyone.

Why do people get the notion in their head that their party is interesting enough to talk about? It almost never is. That's why people bullshit stories here all the time.

Like, your post had pretty much NO relevancy to the discussion. You proved OP's point by throwing a Tiefling in there, and then for some reason you went on to describe each and every character as if it mattered to this discussion.

Nobody... fucking.... cares. Your party isn't interesting outside of your game. Everyone that posts about their asinine parties in totally irrelevant discussions need to be strung up and have pineapple pizza shoved down their throats and d20s squeezed into their eyeballs.

You are the worst type of scum.

>>44991115
It still sounds like someone has an opinion.

>>44991115
Well, on that note.

My party from yesterday's game
>human fighter. A big, buffed up type that uses spear as his weapon of choice.
>a human mage. Specialist in necromancy. (Ng) who maxed out ranks of herb lore, medical knowledge, etc.
>a combat/stealth focused human rogue. More interested in battle strategy than picking locks.
Each character is flavored just fine. Nothing weird. Nothing bland.

Good times.

>>44974494
I'm bothered about this as well. Looking back at the old days the class/race combinations being nonexistent is painful and on a personal note I for one love my Gnomish Sorcerers and Warlocks.

>>44979928
>wandering band of scoundrels and killers.
Getting real fucking sick of this modern interpretation of adventurers.

>>44985634

>those 6heads

I miss the use of traditional media in fantasy art though

But fuck me this thread is reminding me of the differences between the original classic fantasy covers of the Shannara books and the modern look of the YA Divergent Games Runner MTV Shannara

>everyone made characters separately
>3 half-elves and a dragonborn
>but everyone has very good justifications and dragonborn are an integral part of the setting

Not a problem for us.

>>44991286
I agree.
Saw a thread yesterday here...
>barkeep doesn't serve drow or tiefling
>PCs burn down and kill entire village
>no problem.. Barkeep was racist so it wasn't evil
>no one cares about a village burned
>king can't say anything.. Because accosting the PCs would cost too much money
>good templed like the PCs because they killed a racist
>PCs are heroes

That's a typical game for tg? Because it sounds like a group of 8 year olds made the setting.

>>44991624
The fuck are you on about?

>>44990843
The tiefling souns pretty snowflake-y

>>44975664
Autism in action guys.

>>44991624
kek
I saw that. Weeby little faggots murderhoboing and calling it "quality" RPG.

>>44979693
What edition are you thinking of with these hard restrictions? 2e? I've read through the books for that and there seemed to be tons of if/than clauses for races and classes. 5e though is just a matter of proficiencies, or else cancelling out class features (monks for example).

>>44991920
It was a thread you missed. It originally started asking why tieflings are a standard race and aasimar are not. Then it detailed and for the rest of the thread up to the post limit Anons argued about a hypothetical tieflings or drow PC murdering and burning an entire village because a barkeep didn't want to serve them a drink

>>44994176
Detailed=derailed

Damn smartphone spellcheck

>>44976072
What do you think of Seyton the tiefling death cleric. True neutral, nice enough guy.

>>44974494
As a DM, depending on where they start, I don't let this shit happen.
Fortunately, 5e made variant Human's OP, so it's not that bad, honestly.

>>44994261
>Tiefling
>Death Ceric

Fuck outta here.

>>44994176
>player: "I wanna play tiefling!!"
>DM :" fine. To let you blend in, we'll make this a majority tiefling world"
>" why??!!"
>" so you'll fit in"
>" nooooo! "

>>44991624
My character would just sneak in at night and let the booze out of a couple of his barrels as a kind of petty revenge and then move on to saving babies from dragons or whatever the fuck. Burning down a village is pretty excessive.

>>44995245
Are you saying nobody should ever want to play a character that stands out, under any circumstances? Is it literally impossible to play a campaign where a tiefling has to simultaneously struggle with his/her own instincts as part fiend, and with racism from the general public, without making the game entirely about that character?

>>44995334
Yes.
I'm also saying that even attempting, makes you a massive faggot.

>>44995396
I think it would be shitty in a game where it doesn't fit the tone or campaign, but I don't see a problem with characters who have more to them than just being a cog in a dragon-slaying PC engine.

Let's say there's a neutral good human fighter, Charisma 11, basically average in every way except being good with a sword. He saw goblins kill his cousin when he was young and still has nightmares about it, sometimes gets a distant look in his eye and becomes cold and doesn't want to talk to people when it comes up or things remind him of it. This character is also actually a character and not just a cookie-cutter list of stats for dungeoneering. Would playing that make someone a "massive faggot?" If not, what's the difference?

What is it about the idea of playing a character who stands out in any way from the norm of the setting (when you're adventurers and not everyone is, so that itself could set you apart anyway) that's so horrible?

>>44995501
>characters with personalities
Fucking plebs, coddled by new editions. Back in the day you had a stack of character sheets and no time to get attached.

>>44995501
It depends on the setting.

In a majority human/demi world, a tiefling sticks way out. And..they are a demonic-looking fucker. So the majority of NPCs will dislike or hate them on sight.
How the fuck, does having some dramatic bullshit with emo faggotry, over "omg racism!!", every time the PCs want to go to town, adding to the game?


So if players want to play freaks.. Make it a setting full of freaks. Simple.

>>44995634
You could easily just try to disguise yourself. Or you could be as heroic as possible to try to prove people wrong about you. There are all kinds of responses you could have to it.

Also, having people react negatively to a character creates conflict, which is literally what stories are made of.

>>44995734
Just no anon.

They won't use disquise. Or they'll fail checks. Then the inevitable happens, and a bunch of NPCs die.
It just fucking stupid.

>>44995592

These fucking LARPers I swear

I just want to make the most munchkin character I can and beat whatever the faggot ass DM throws at me, I don't want to hear your 20 fucking pages of backstory or waste whole hours on your gay ass romance with the princess

>>44995994
Exactly. Fuck moral conundrums. In fact, nobody should be ALLOWED to play RPGs besides B/X D&D. The fact that they're called RPGs refers to playing a role like fighter or magic user, not a character's headspace or whateverthefuck. Games that misunderstood that and tried to focus on character have almost ruined the hobby.

I made random rolls to select everything for a new 5e character.

>fighter
>no multi class
>earth-genasi
>outlander background

How big of a specials snowflake faggot am I? I left it up to the Gods.

>>44996052
>>44995994
>>44995592

I can't tell who is and isn't sarcastic.

>>44978421
But multiclassing usually makes the character bad at what it does since it's streched too thin