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How come tieflings became a standard race...
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How come tieflings became a standard race to choose from but aasimar didn't?
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>>44968790
>100% EDGE ALL DAY ERRDAY
>CAN'T GET THAT SWEET MOUNTAIN DEW MONIES WITHOUT PROVIDING A LOL DlCKS OPTION
>>
>>44968790
as a tielfing
you can be edgy and evil because of your demon blood or
you can be edgy and good as you struggle with prejudice and your demon blood
>>
>>44968835
>>44968864
>anons who have so little imagination they don't know how to rp a Tiefling without being edgy.

Shame. Thought /tg/ was meant to be good at this sort of thing. Prove me wrong.
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>>44968864
>>44968835
/thread
>>
Aren't Aasimar's fully statted out in the DMG as an example of how to make a new race?
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>>44968790
Because "power-hungry mages make deal with the devil of all devils, cursing their offspring for all eternity" is generally easier to explain than the same thing happening with celestials, who tend to stay out of mortal affairs.
>>
Why did Dragonborn become a standard race to chose from? Why did Eldarin?

The Eldarin really make me mad, because they're really just elves but more elvey.
>>
>>44968864

>demon blood

That's not how Tieflings work anymore, it hasn't been for two editions.
>>
>>44968864

Though that was also the deal with Half-Elves - they're supposed to be so ronly due to being outcasts among both human and elven cultures.
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>>44968790
Tieflings look way cooler. I mean, dat horns, 10/10 would rub.
Serious answer, clearly there are more people who like tieflings than aasimar. In some measure, yes, it is actually because they lend themselves to the edgy side of the Force roleplay.
My personal two cents? Angels are damn perfect in every way, or at least supposed to be. Playing a good (since most parties are good or neutral to the very least) Aasimar feels like, so to say, a given. Of course, you are an half angel and as such a paragon of good, nothing to see here: kinda like being a "paladin race", there is a class that does just that and I can gain an interesting backstory if I pick a race that doesn't normally associate with paladins (it takes a good player to play a stereotyped character and actually make it more interesting than even a slight subversion of a trope made by a mediocre player). If you instead choose to be an evil aasimar... it wouldn't BE silly, because fallen angels and all of that, but it implies a seriously evil party, and the game itself leans toward good ones, and face it, most of the times redemption looks cooler than corruption which is my fetish so yeah, don't think I actually endorse that opinion. Now, tieflings are meant to represent the bad side, and they are usually prone to fall into vice- which is something regular human players can relate a bit more with than with being a paragon of good. But, as we said, parties are mostly good so if you choose to be a good tiefling, you got the whole redemption thing going for you, so hey, more points for you, kudos: it is kinda like being Drizzt but not a drow. This can be done well, of course, it all depends on the player, but of course young novice players ARE going to consider playing the brooding half demon who strives to be good
Dunno if I wrote something intelligent, I am pretty drunk but hey, if I wasn't drunk I would have never used my time to type all of this stuff.
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>>44969647
That changed in 4e, though I don't know if they kept the change in 5e. Basically, half-elves became well loved by most races for being able to quickly adapt to other cultures and share the best parts of two races.

I prefer how it was done in 3rd, because the biological aspect made a lot of sense for explaining why they didn't fit in with either race.

>>44969668
So basically tieflings are a bit more flexible than the either very good or very bad aasimar? I can understand that.
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>>44968790
Because people want to brood and be angsty, while crying prejudice whenever people treat them differently, while also being non-conformist and "badass".

I fucking hate that Tielfings and Dragonborn are "standard" races.
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>>44969463
>Half-Elves
>Elves
>200% ELVES NOW WITH EXTRA ARROGANCE
Fucking hell.
>>
>>44968790
Aasimar don't have dat ass.
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>>44969463
>Eldarin
Those make more sense than having the whole biome/Fantasy descritor elf bullshit that goes on. Eldarin were legitimately different in being fae like with mechanics and fluff. Wood elves are good at being in elves in the woods! high elves are good at being elves in high fantasy! Regular elves are good at being regular elves! Dark elves are good at being ow the edge dark! Sea elves are good at being in the sea!

Eldarin could have been their own teleporting Fae bullshit but making new races is always a risk of legitimately wasting money on %s of your book being something players didn't want and you can't follow up with other books to sell to them.
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>>44970181

Elves finally had a race that looked at them the way they looked at humans, it was glorious.
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>>44968790
Because draenei.
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Why are succubi so popular compared to erinyes?
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>>44970275
They offer sex.
Erinyes offer bloodshed.
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>>44970275
Erinyes don't put out.
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>>44970275
To everyone who hasn't been truly wronged, Sex trumps Vengeance
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>"No drow, no dragonborn, no tieflings, no aasimar, no eladrin."
>"BUT THEY'RE IN THE BOOK."
>"Fine, if you can come up with a good reason to be one of these races AND an adventurer, fully aware of the prejudices and isolation they face, I'll let you play as one."

>some sessions later:
>"The innkeeper takes one look at you and says, 'We don't serve your kind here!'"
>"FUCK OFF DM YOU'RE PICKING ON ME YOU NEVER DO THIS TO THE ELF OR DWARF CHARACTERS!"
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>>44970458
While I agree on principle, why'd a Barkeep be annoyed about an Aasimar?
Jealousy?
Disliking "holier than thou's"?
>>
>>44970054
If people want to do that, they'll do it anyway, with or without tieflings. If you run a humans-only game, they'll still do it, they'll just be that one guy in the black cloak who sits in the corner of every tavern and just broods.

The problem is not with the tieflings or dragonborn, it's with edgelord players.
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>>44968790
Fetish fuel for faggots.

Edgy little douchebags.
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>>44970458
>"The innkeeper takes one look at you and says, 'We don't serve your kind here!'"

Why the hell not? Their gold spends just as well as everyone else's. Even if they don't like the customer, they certainly like the money they'll be paid to feed them.
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>>44970536
Well in the same way tieflings are considered to be evil/devilish even when they aren't...

>seedy, scum-of-the-earth type bar
>angelic half-celestial prettyboy walks in
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>>44970458
Exactly.

>I can play a drow?
>NO.
>please....? Its a dream of mine!
>fine. But NPCs won't like him.
1st session
>the guards draw their swords as you approach...
>"WTF?!?! Why?? I didn't do anything!! "

Every time.
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>>44970625
Maybe it's prosperous enough already?

If films are anything to go by, I imagine the US has redneck bars, sports bars, etc.

The UK has Catholic clubs, working men's clubs, Irish bars, Polish pubs, all sorts. I don't know how they stay in business, but being a paying stranger doesn't always entitle you to service. You will certainly get a few shifty looks from the locals.
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>>44970458
Perfect RP opportunity.

>Being a Paladin or Cleric
"Oh wow, are you really going to deny a servant of _________ a room? What would your local priest say?"

>Being a Fighter
>Implying you didn't spend your wealth on titles and are literally his lord

>Being a Rogue
"Honey, please tell your dad to calm down."

>Being a Wizard
>Cast a get out of RP charm spell
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>>44970625
Because they're literally devil worshipping fucksticks.

Now gtfo.
>>
>>44970625
Travellers are here for today.
A Barkeep has to put up with his regulars for much, much longer.
And nobody wants a reputation as a Dragon-lover, or a pal of the lower depths.
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>>44970625
inviting drow into your house is generally followed by 3 to 5 years of torturous slavery in the underdark, followed by a very exiting career as mushroom fertilizer
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>>44969976
I usually made jokes about all the half elves out in the world because of stuff like that I was also playing as a drow who was paranoid about all half elves too.
>>
>>44970625
The barkeeper may be thinking about his other patrons - if word got out in a particularly racist community that some ill-liked race was free to drink at Pete's bar, Pete would go out of business.

>>44970639
I'd find it funny if, since aasimar seem to be pretty religious, if they organised their own Prohibition movement.
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>>44969428
Noble heroes who are reborn into the world anew with heaven's blessings running in their veins?

A chosen few bloodlines blessed so they may keep the faithful pure and the world safe?
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>>44970731
The barkeep is a devil worshipper? Someone should alert the authorities about this.

>>44970733
Aren't there good dragons? The metallics? Also, weren't dragonborn Lawful Good champions of Bahamut in older editions?
>>
Because the draenei were popular at the time.
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>>44970790
>I'd find it funny if, since aasimar seem to be pretty religious, if they organised their own Prohibition movement.

I could see that working.

"ALCOHOL BEVERAGES? BRAWLING? DEBAUCHERY? NOT ON MY WATCH!"
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>>44970733
>barkeeper serves a drow a drink
>3days later a body is found.
Half the town will suspect the drow.
Barkeep loses 60%of his regulars.

No thanks. Fuck off drow/tiefling fucks.
>>
If you're talking about 5e, >>44969412 is correct. If this is not a suitable answer, it's because denizens of the lower planes, be they devil or demon, love to spread their influence. Nothing does that like a few more tieflings sired to them, through direct encounters or blood contracts. Then there's also the matter of that ancient empire which was once turned all to Asmodean tieflings because of their dealings. Of course, celestials don't put out to mortals nearly as much as their counterparts do.
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>>44970808
That's a bit special snowflake-y. The tiefling were descendants of an entire kingdom of devil-worshipers or something - a select few bloodlines of very good heroes is a different story entirely.
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>>44970733
A barkeep denying an adventurer service is how villages are eradicated in fire.

Sure it,s not an easy choice of being called a devil lover by the locals, but at least the locals will still be alive by sunrise. Unless they're stupid.
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>>44970826
>Aren't there good dragons?
I would imagine that in most settings knowledge of those Good dragons is less prolific than the legends of the horrible murderous fire-breathing assholes who burn villages to the ground, steal all the gold, then kidnap the princess.
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>>44970834
>It turns out the drow did not do it, it was a local bigot who was trying to frame the drow
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>>44970922
That assumes the Barkeep is meta-aware, and all adventuring parties act like PCs.
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>>44970858
adventurers aren't supposed to be normal people though
little bit snowflake-y isn't all that bad, as long as you're not the prettiest kindest aasimar princess in the world you won't look that out of place next to the guy who can tell physics to kiss his nether regions
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>>44970937
>the drow however did murder 3 people who pissed him off, he's just also pretty good at covering up his crimes
>>
>>44970948
I'm confused, there are adventuring parties that AREN'T PCs?

I imagine you'd need some degree of sociopathy to be an adventurer in the first place.
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>>44970834
Considering most villages have one bar, where are the 60% of the regulars going? Are they building their own bar with blackjack and hookers? Probably not. They're just going to keep going to the one bar but have something to talk about other than the crop failures and mud farming.
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>>44968790
Ass-mar are all uptight and wanna wait for marriage.

The tiefling'll give you a handy at day's end to help you unwind if you don't make a big deal out of it.
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>>44970625
For the same reason people used to refuse service to blacks and do so when they can get away with it to Muslims now.
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>>44971014
if the village is small enough there's only one bar its small enough everyone knows eachother

you really want to be that guy everyone looks funny at in a close village?
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>>44970922
Adventurers burning villages, is what brings out the big NPC hunters/champions.
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>>44971016
>Think you could use your mouth?
>Don't push it. Only reason I'm going this far is...becauseyou'rekindofcute.
>What?
>Nothing. Just don't ask to hold hands again, it's embarrassing.
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>>44970458
The one time I was gonna play tiefling, I was gonna say he wore a hood to hide his horns and kept his tail inside his robe at all times, and If I got discovered, accept the consequences.
Also none of my GMs so far has done racism or distrust towards PCs, closest thing was a man being really surprised at the sight of my Genasi, and on that same game, the bar owner was like
>nah we get dragonborn at least once a week, now genasi are rare
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>>44971014
They wait.
Then get mad because they can't drink.
Then blame the barkeep.
Bust in, rough him up. Run him out of town.
Next NPC takes over the pub.
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>>44970790
>>44970833
I had literally the exact opposite happen in a campaign I was in. Listen well to the story of how Sir Alexander the Valiant ended Prohibition.

>Party is awakened cat Bard with a rapier, Aasimar Paladin in golden shimmering plate with a cape, human playing homebrew Samurai class, and a sorceress.
>We arrive in this large religious Puritan city where everything is drab, grey, and dull, and alcohol is banned.
>Alexander, who had stood on Mount Celestia, and seen the heights of Heaven instinctively recoils at such a lifeless place calling itself "holy".
>Resolves immediately to teach them that faith should bring joy, starting by bringing booze back to the town.
>We go the Lord of the city's manor, and tell him he should legalize alcohol.
>He sarcastically tells us that if we can get 10,000 signatures on a petition, out of the very anti-alcohol bunch of holier-than-thous, we'll allow it.
>We thank him for his time and head outside the city to discuss our plans.
>Samurai has the ability to once a day "Speak with Ancestors", allowing him to speak with either his ancestors, or those of anyone within the range of the ability.
>I am an Aasimar
>Moments later the party is prostrate as the shimmering illusion of a Solar stands before us.
>After a short discussion, Alexander is able to convince his mighty patriarch of the rightness of their cause, and the thrice-righteous Metatron informs us he will open a Gate to our location and send us some supplies.
>Armed with enough celestial wine to drown in, and literal manna from heaven, we give praise to the gods as we begin preparing for the biggest, baddest, most indulgent party these people had ever seen.
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>>44971312
but anon, all barkeeps are epic level retired adventurers.
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>>44970922
>at the kings council
>"your grace..we have a group of murderhobos running around. They seem to have burned a village down."
>"take care of them. Whatever it takes. Next item?"
>>
>>44971409
more like
>"You're grace, the heroes that saved the princess and defeated the invading orc army burned down a village"
>"Was it a rich village?"
>"No sire"
>Next!
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>>44968790
Other than what everybody's said about "muh edge" and all that, consider in fantasy and folklore how much more often you hear about those with demonic blood than angelic.
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>>44971477
>people come to realize the king isn't going to protect them
>get the pitchforks and torches
>if they can't kill the adventurers, they'll sure as hell kill the king
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>>44971536
I think for a long time spirits and demons and djinn and such were all kind of mushed together in a vaguely neutral category. Even the myths about the children of gods usually has said children being superhuman, but kind of dicks.
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>>44971536
Yeah, but just as Tieflings became the descendants of an empire that sold it's soul, you could refluff Aasimars as descended from great heroes who received the blessing of Heaven.

Every story has some Chosen One running around. If there can be a whole race of Fausts, then there can be a whole race of Aragorns.
>>
>>44971294
>>
>>44971347
>We invite literally everyone in the town, striding through the city, much to the more conservative people's chagrin, tossing flowers, praising the heavens, and inviting them to come to our feast.
>Many stay at home, but many, many come outside the city to where we had prepared.
>Throughout the night the people drank to drunkenness, and ate to dullness, and praised the gods of Good for sending us. The Lord of the city was outraged.
>He sent undead among the crowd, to attack us and drive us from his holy place.
>But I was a Paladin, and an Aasimar. And more importantly, I was wearing a suit of armor that shone with light to 60' and dealt 1d6 damage to undead within the light's shine. His creatures burned at the brilliance of my countenance.
>Not-Puss-in-Boots let the crowd in a musical number of "Mr Booze" with the lyrics changed to be more pro-alcohol [complete with the entire party singing along AS we fought. Yes, we even sang at the table]
>Sorceress burning them alive and banishing the dead back to hell, Lord finally shows up in person and accuses us of being decadent, evil, whorish, heathens and makes ready to slay us with his clerical sword.
>I prepare to do battle against him, but the Samurai insists that by insulting his allies honor, it was his duty to vanquish him. And so the two do battle.
>Slashing, clanging, fighting, all while the party is still going on around them, fighting their way through the quickly opening crowd, to the roar of fighting music provided by the Bard.
>Eventually we strike him down, and he flees the city ashamed.
>I crowned one of the nobler peasants Lord, and forced the partygoers [most of whom were highly intoxicated] to swear a vow to the Most Highs to obey him.
>In the morning, everyone was hung over, the countryside was a mess, and the divine light shown once more upon this drab shitty town.
>Having fulfilled the will of the gods, we left, to go on our next adventure.
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>>44971620
And kings know that.

Also, two barons and four counts, are waiting to use the murdered villagers as a rally cry to overthrow the current monarch.

No. The king won't ignore it.
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>>44970458

>"I would like to roll diplomacy, my coin is as good as theirs" *Roll*
>"DC is 5; He may be an ass, but gold is gold and he can't buy company with his prejudice at the end of the night.
>"The innkeeper examines your coinage for quite a bit, but is eventually is grudgingly satisfied. Get your business done quickly before he changes his mind."
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>>44969668
>Tieflings look way cooler.
This honestly isn't that far off what I think is the big reason. Horns and a forked/pointed tail is a lot more distinctive than human but with flawless skin/golden eyes/whatever it is that aasimar are supposed to have. Visual distinctiveness is the reason.
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>>44968790
because they look like draenei, which would boost sales

not even baiting
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>>44971477
Kings don't stay in power long when they allow a group of murdering psychos to slaughter their people.
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>>44971677
sexual things + cuteness = yes
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>>44971760
then roll a spot check to see if you find the spit in your ale
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>>44970834

>"I knew he was trouble, It was a mistake to let that killer stay the night. You should have seen him, the beast had red eyes and fangs. Care for another drink? Right, So he's 8 foot tall and eyes like coals..."
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>>44971760
DC is far higher.

But even if they make the DC..the barkeep just politely tells them no.
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>>44971803
Kings don't stay in power long when they start antagonizing a group of murdering psychos.
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>>44971719
>>44971899
>my lord, how do we deal with these people? They are far too powerful!
>Call those other adventurers, the ones who killed those dragons and stopped my vizier from overthrowing me. They were pretty tough. Give them some magic from the armory to give them an edge and a patrol of our best men just to make sure.
>Yes, my lord.
>Also, have my son-in-law, the former adventurer who saved the princess from the Dark Lord, stop by I have an offer for him.
>And fetch me my +5 Ring of Fuck Everything that I had the court mages make for me.
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>>44971810
In this case, yes, I can see it.
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>>44971702
Nice, did your party went back to that town?
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>>44968790
Because tieflings were a core Planescape race, while aasimar weren't.
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>>44970952
>as long as you're not the prettiest kindest aasimar princess in the world
Then what's the point?
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>>44971935
Yup, the King is going to start a massive and expensive campaign because some adventurers took down a racist bartender in a mud farming village. Less deaths than a typical day in the capital, but yeah, go ahead and spend half the treasury and risk the life of the royal heir chasing down a handful of adventurers.
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>>44968790
I don't like to blame things on edge, but honestly it is because edge.

>>44969564
It's a damn shame. I miss downtrodden mutt teiflings.
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>>44971935
Good luck stopping the neighboring kingdom from conquering your territory while they're out on a massively expensive witch hunt.
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>>44971935
>also, notify king rapeface, our trade partner to the north. Let him know I want these fuckers dead.
>"at once you majesty"

T.
P.
K.

Why? Because some player had to be an edgy little cunt, and act like an idiot.
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>>44971899
King will simply send bounty hunters after them and hang the party.
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>>44972166
>>44969564
What's the cause of tieflings now?
I remember reading that either your bloodline is cursed or you were born in a place with strong fiendish energies
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>>44972146
Its a challenge to the kings law.

Cost will not matter.
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>>44972240
At some point in the past your ancestors were a race that made a pact with satan, and as a side effect you have horns and don't get to use the same water fountains as everyone else.
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>>44970458
This, exactly. I just hosted a D&D 5e Campaign, where I pulled out the 1st edition module for Keep on the Borderlands.

One player wanted to be a tiefling.
One wanted to be an aesimar
One wanted to be a dragonborn.
> "BUT DEY IN DA BOOK" was their response

Eventually I caved on the tiefling, mostly just because they're cool and have been around since longer than I've been on this earth. But I put my foot down on the rest of the bullshit, and told them, "Core rulebook only for all content".

Later the player started getting annoyed because nobody acknowledged his attempts at being edgy, and the campaign didn't involve much roleplaying. It was all fun and games though until I switched their pawns over to the map for the Caves of Chaos, and read them the description. It was made even better because Fog of War was enabled, and I had geometry-revealed only the canyon itself with just the cave entrances outlined as being visible. The whole party collectively shitted themselves.
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>>44972270
Well, king Rapeface is well known for his rich, mostly agrarian agricultural kingdom. Despite being Northerly, their kingdom is famous for its exports of fine Rape.
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>>44972227
Mean. Clever. Well equipped. And leveled bounty hunters.

Not to mention the good aligned clerics and druids and mages that will hunt them for free..just to rid the world of an evil danger.
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>>44970997
Only in D&D, where "adventurer" means "sellsword & tombturner"
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>>44972301
Dragonborn are just as core as Tiefling.
They're not classic tieflings remember, they're boring new tieflings that all have horns instead of eyebrows.
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>>44972205
>>44972331

Sorry, king Rapeface's kingdom was eradicated when a team of adventurers collapsed his castle on him with an immovable rod and is now an orc hold.
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>>44972146
>>44972199
>massive and expensive
>implying it isn't pocket change
>half the treasury
>a few pittance
>risk the life of the royal heir
>Pay for Resurrection spell or cook up a few Clones

>>44972205
>King Rapeface
You know despite his reputation, he is a very adapt diplomat who has given us some pretty favorable trade rates.
>>
>>44972385
I still put my foot down on dragonborn even though they were core. I cited that they weren't "Classic" as my reasoning.

My actual reasons were that with how the module was balanced, breath weapons weren't a thing that party members should ever have access to at level 1-3...
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>>44971876
>I'm the DM here. It's my way or high way
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>>44972398
nice try FluffandCrunch
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>>44972146
Assuming the aristocracy supports the king, the campaign is low cost. Assuming the aristocracy does not support the king his victory shall see a sudden influx of priceless house heirlooms.

Best of all is he has finally justified all the money he spent on his +5 RoFE
>>
>>44972398
Hey Tripfag FluffandCrunch !!pfrTppEoeLx why did you delete your post?
>>
>>44972334
And everyone of them who fails will make the party stronger.
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>>44972285
They're more like Jews, really.

Their ancestry makes them stand out even if they had nothing to do with their ancestors practices, they don't really stay in any particular community for long, and they weren't rounded up to be sold as slaves.

It's never going to be a 1:1 parallel, but it's pretty close.
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>>44972440
A DC 5 to make move someone from hated to friendly, for one of the most universally hated creatures in existence?

Yay for shitty dm's.
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>>44971788
To be fair here, 4E Devas also looked pretty cool
>>
>>44972331
No one in the land has the skill and craftsmanship of the Rapesmiths of the north.

>>44972395
That was just part of his urban renewal program. He recently finished the final touches on his Flying Fortress of Rape.

>>44972450
>>44972455
Shh, no one knows it was me.
Forgot to take trip off, not applicable to this thread.
>>
>>44972525
>for one of the most universally hated creatures in existence
The fuck are you talking about?
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>>44972511
I was actually thinking that too, but wanted to spring for the most obvious discrimination joke. They're like Jews and the Dunmer from TES with their skin and eyes, which is fitting since the Dunmer are Jews too.
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>>44972492
They won't fail.
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>>44972568
Drow.
Dafaq u talking about?
>>
>>44972107
Sadly no, the campaign ended a little while after that.
>>
>sending bounty hunters after adventurers
they're prepared for all manner of combat, its likely those jackasses are either plain better than your bounty hunters or else have a way out

what you do is inform every thieves guild in the world any item stolen from the PC's will be bought by the crown at double market value, this includes any currency they may possess

combat might excite them but their shiny trinkets going missing one by one most certainly will not
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I was just talking to my buddy about how if my rogue ever dies (aka never) my next character will be a huge seven foot whatever tiefling fighter with big ass horns a huge mustache named Devil Man Randy Savage. Pic not related

Equal rights for devil men!
>>
>>44972711
But then the PC's retire as traveling salesmen, selling things to thieves who then sell it to the crown. It's a lot safer for the thieves then having to risk fighting adventurers if caught, and everyone gets a hefty cash payout.
>>
>>44972525
>friendly
That description of the barkeep's reaction after the diplomacy roll didn't sound friendly in the slightest, it was just barely tolerance.
>>
>>44972711
>>44972757
The other thing you can do is outlaw anyone from buying any items from the party, punishable by destitution and imprisonment.

You can also team those bounty hunters up with a pack of trained Rust Monsters.
>>
How much of tieflings is just sexy red skin horned bad girls?
>>
>>44972996
All of it since... is it 3e or 4e?
>>
>One player played a Tiefling arcane trickster in one game
>another played an Aasimar "Urban druid"
>Characters grew up together on the streets
>best of friends
>nonstop hilarious banter the entire campaign
>characters are suddenly fucking each other
>Find out at the end of the campaign that the players got together based on their character interactions and were now in a homo relationship

Be warned, it could happen to you!
>>
This thread is more proof of what type of little cunts want to play drow and tiefling.

Edgy little twats, who cry "racism!!!omg!! Kill kill kill!", over every tiny detail.
>>
>>44972978
Now you're falling into the "gm has a personal vendetta against the players" category of bad GM'ing.
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>>44973034
>4e
Eyebrow horns aren't sexy.
>>
>>44973099
No.

Its called world building.
Actions have consequences. Threats to kings and murdering villages will have dire consequences.
>>
>>44973099
It is bad GMing, but we're discussing 'King Practical Meta-Knowledge deals with adventurers'

The point is, players underestimate those in power and assume they are the only ones with lots of magic and good stats. Any king who lives in a world where murderhobos happen will have that of this beforehand.
>>
>>44973068
Also..
>>44970595
Fetish shit.
>>
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>>44972996
>>44973034
>>44973142
Tieflings were at their red skinned babest back in 2e, but they weren't all red skinned babes then.
>>
>>44973184
There's a difference between consequences and "Imma gonna getcha fucks"
>>
>>44972777

We assume Unfriendly due to the fact the barkeep isn't pointing a crossbow across the bar.

DC 15 reaches indifferent; Enough to exchange goods for services.

Applying bluff style circumstances to a short term diplomacy action, I take off 5 for "Target wants to believe you": Because he targeted the innkeeper at his weakest point: His gold is good, and he doesn't see gold often.

I then shave off 5 for "risk"; He's willing to be stubborn if the Drow was alone, but he's got 3-5 other dangerous looking companions... It's not like he could have the regulars bounce the whole group.

DC 5 is perfectly reasonable to have an innkeeper decide to put his ego aside so he can get rich. (Because seriously, PCS always just start throwing gold because fuck tracking SP).
>>
>>44973248
Damn but they WERE babes
>>
>>44973248
Ah, true. I just default to the random tables.
>>
>>44973254
Now raise the DC by 35 because we're talking about drow.
>>
>>44973205
Fine, if you want to meta, the adventure wizard casts locate city nuke while the fighter organizes a peasant railgun to finish off anything surviving using slaves.
>>
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>>44973248
Gotta love that Planescape art.
>>
>>44973298
The thread's about tieflings
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>>44973254
>player rolls 20 on persuasion or whatever
>Alright lad, you won me over. You know what, I like you. You can marry my daughter once you've made a name for yourself and are ready to retire and take over my inn.
>>
>>44973343
Peasant railgun is nonsense that doesn't work
>>
>>44968790
sucks to your assimar
>>
>>44973298
Which is why any drow I make has ranks in disguise.
>>
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>>44973297
>random tables
>>
>>44973343
Why is it that everyone calls foul whenever NPCs make the same tactical choices as PCs? Or exhibit the same knowledge or precautions they do?
>>
>>44973444
Great, now the thread will be everyone rolling tieflings.
>>
>>44972569
>>44972511
>>44972285
>>44972240

the tieflings were the old tieflings before a gathering of warlocks (13 of them i think) made a deal with the asmodeus that made all tieflings into devilspawn, however i am not sure if all tieflings are devilspawn or if some are still deamonspawn... of the warlocks that made the pact it is mentioned that a few could not be told form normal humans at a glance and one of them had his hands on upside-down
>>
>>44973457
I'm not calling foul, I'm playing the same meta game the gm is. Don't start crying when your personal vendetta fails.
>>
>>44973457
13 year olds who are used to shit video game AI and don't think their DMs are people
>>
>>44973457
Because it usually involves the whole wolrd turning into a hivemind intent of fucking the players over. Not even the PCs, the players
>>
>>44973506
Peasant Cannon doesn't even work that way, it doesn't work at all.

And it's not like the NPCs are doing anything the PCs can't do.
>>
>>44973397
Which is precisely why I used it as the DM in a campaign once. Where the BBEG lich used it to make a "Skellyman Email Service", which transfers letters between his lich tower at near the speed of light. The party thought it was a hilarious thing to mess with, because I actually wrote out a COMPLEX series of routing systems for it, with 4x4 blocks of skeletons composing simple IO units to handle routing information so that letters can be sent reliably to a specific destination, even given ridiculous volume of goods being transfered from all the towers.

They actually found the routing station at some point, and they all shit themselves when they found that there were over 400 skeletons in a courtyard all doing 'seemingly random' waves with their hands.
>>
>>44973444
I'm more of a 4e guy, but I like the fact you can basically make a tiefling that looks identical to Nightcrawler.
>>
>>44973563
reminds me of the shared torture communication system.
>>
>>44973506
No one is mentioning players except you. We're talking about how NPC rulers deal with Murderhobos in setting.
>>
>>44973298

No. Because you're an moron if you think that the innkeeper is going to refuse to serve an adventurer because he's a dark elf.

The man walked in and whopped the equivalent of 5 grand on the bar... And asked for a beer.

I don't know about you, but I don't think the barkeep has a will save high enough for that opportunity.

>>44973370

RAW on a 20, including modifiers puts the Drow into the "Friendly" bracket.

He needed to "roll" a 30 to get to "Helpful" on that bracket, and probably quite a bit more for "Come over and fuck my daughter"
>>
>>44973620
No, you're going on about how shitty gm's try and cuck their players.
>>
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>>44973444
Don't forget about the aasimar!
>>
>>44973674
Don't take it personnel. Everything was from an in-character point of view.
>>
>>44973681
>this was once fine

Thank god we're living in the golden age of gaming.
>>
>>44973444
>>44973681

It would be fun to play a Aasimar whose traits made people assume he was a Tiefling
>>
>>44973742
It's literally "I don't like what you're playing so everyone is going out of their way to hate you and if you do anything about it, literally the entire world drops everything and tries to kill you."
>>
>>44973772
Is it the tables, or the fact that most of the Aasimar side effects are positive?
>>
>>44973620
I guess only PCs have magic, items, weapons, skill, feats, money.

NPCs are all dirt poor farmers who quiver in fear of PCs. Even kings.
>>
>>44973798
No, it's, 'how do authorities in a magical fantasy world respond to murderhobos in their territory'.
>>
>>44973621
kek

>durrrr Muh diplomacy

Read it again anon.
>>
>>44973798
Its more like..
"How does the fantasy king respond to a pack of evil psychos running around burning his villages down"
>>
>>44973798
This is precisely what the module I'm running says to do if any of the party members are stupid. It's Keep on the Borderlands 1st edition, and the keep is supposed to be a completely safe base of operations for the party. Yet if they act stupid and try to steal or kill anyone in the fort, the whole damn place comes down on the party.

And they're not helpless NPC's either. Nearly all of the shopkeepers are either retired adventurers(Which more DM's need to do, it's absolutely hilarious), or novice hedge mages with Sleep and other Save/Lose spells. And the Corporal of the Watch is level 7.
>>
>>44973933
You're just a bad gm anon, stop trying to convince everyone otherwise. Considering your first response was "well we have to kill them" instead of a trial and prison, says a lot about the type of GM you are.
>>
>>44973997
By sending out Berric Dondarrion and a few good men?
>>
>>44972569
>dunmer are jews
They share literally 0 common traits. Khajiit would be closer, though they're based more on gypsies.
>>
>>44974075
Anon, I'm not a GM. What made you think I was?
>trial and prison
Do you even medieval monarchy?
Besides, this whole thing got started with the players burning down and murdering a whole town because they weren't served drinks. The people are not going to care if they get a fair trial.
>>
>>44974075
To be fair here, "prison" part was rather seldom used in medieval Europe (pretty much only if you could ransom you prisoner or a as an intermediate stage). So it would be more like "trial and execute... or just execute if there's no choice"
>>
Slightly unrelated but when did minotaurs become noble savages?
>>
>>44974075
A trial?

Sure for some minor thing.

Burning down and slaughtering a village?

Do invading orcs and goblins get trials?
Monsters won't get a trial..and horned demonic looking fucks won't either.

Grab the d6's and reroll faggot.
>>
>>44974199
Well, I guess you have a nice healthy player turnover
>>
>>44968790
Think aasimar came up in PHB 2
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>>44974036
Why do they need adventurers in the first place?
>>
>>44974271
Which edition are you talking about?
>>
>>44974173
>>44974182
>>44974199
"meh, I'll just kill the PC's because they reacted to how much of an asshat I was earlier. No biggie."
>>
>>44974248
>I don't understand why everyone came after me! I didn't do anything wrong!
>You put a whole village to the sword and burned it to the ground because a barkeep didn't want to serve a Tiefling!
>Well, if you hate me for no reason, I just won't play with you guys!
>>
>>44974248
Not really.

Same 6 guys for 4 years now.

We have fun, because we're not edgy little twats. You wouldn't be a good fit. Stick with your one shots on roll20.
>>
>>44974302
They may not be as crazy as the players are.
>>
>>44974199
>not making the criminals pay to resurrect the village
>not forcing them via magical means to serve the kingdom as penance
What kind of unlawful King do you run anon?
>>
>>44974302
Because the emphasis is on retired. The whole point of the keep was literally to serve as a base of operations for adventurers going out into the borderlands to slay monsters and acquire delicious loot. It's setup for adventures into the Caves of Chaos.
>>
>>44974368
No shit.

>" why are you having NPCs attack me??"
> "because you killed and burned an entire village!!"
>"omg.. Passive aggressive asshole!!"
>>
>>44974365
The situation started because the players killed a whole village.

Should there be no reaction from the world for their actions?
>players save a village
>rewarded for their good deed
>players kill a whole village
>no one notices or says anything
>>
>>44974438
Do kobolds get a trial and ordered to pay restitution?

Why would PC monsters?
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>>44974117
What? Dunmer are well known as the Jews.

They split from the Aldmer when their Prophet, Veloth told them of the power of their God. The Aldmer summoned up their God against the Chimer, but Veloth proved his God's superiority when his God ate the opposing God. He then led the tribes on a pilgrimage to their promised land, Morrowind.
Unlike the other Elves that hate Lorkhan, they consider him a opposing figure that exists to test them and make them prove their devotion and worthiness for their Gods.

At the time of the game Morrowind, times were hard in the Dunmer promised land. Their promised land was under occupation by the Romans and the various Pharisees and the Sadducees work for control, while the Zealots work fanatically against the Imperial occupation.

In their myths, there is said to be the return of a Neremessiahvarine, who will drive the Goyim from Morrowind and restore them to greatness, bringing back the lineage of their Hortator, King David. Of course, The Jesusvarine didn't really bring about these goals in the way the Dunmar hoped.

And then we come to the present day. the Jewmers are driven out of their promised land and their diaspora has them living in Ghettos, still adjusting to post-Temple Judaism.
>>
>>44974438
The people may want their blood for such an atrocious act, anon. The king may have to satisfy them.
>>
>>44974482
>players kill a village
>Instantly every npc knows
not
>months later report of a ransacked village is reported to the capital.
>Even if they could figure out who did it, they probably left the region weeks ago
>>
>>44974368
>So, DM, why did you kill the entire party again?
>You put a whole village to the sword and burned it to the ground because a barkeep didn't want to serve a Tiefling!
>Stop right there. I just punched the fucker in the face and we left the tavern. It's you who sicced a lynch mob on us so we had to protect ourselves. And we didn't burn it down.
>You still fled the people sent after you
>Because they just attacked and you didn't allow us to talk to them!
>>
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>>44974517
>>
>>44974589
This whole conversation literally goes back to someone suggesting they burn the village down as recompense:
>>44970922
>>
>>44974523
Not just the king.

Likely every good aligned temple would send investigators.
>>
>>44974508
Tieflings aren't monsters, they're in the phb.
Also considering they're in the phb, they'd be common as anyone else, rendering this whole thread pointless and just shows what a bunch of shitters you all are.
>>
>>44974589
That wasn't the situation we were talking about at all.
Not at all!

If the players punch the barkeep, he would probably be salty and tell the guards. Then they'd ask what happened and realize it was just ol' Saul being a fucking racist again and ignore him.
>>
>>44970458
>>"The innkeeper takes one look at you and says, 'We don't serve your kind here!'"
In a world where adventurers exist, this is a good way to get shanked by CN idiots

Meaning this innkeeper wants to be shanked

Meaning it is my duty as an LG paladin to give him what he wants
>>
>>44974681
Actually in 5e, they're not one of the main races, but considered an Uncommon race that is rare and treated with suspicion. The Uncommon races have their own section.
>>
>>44972511
>Jews were slaves.
When will this meme end?
>>
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>>44974517
Well shit.
>>
>>44974551
Maybe if it was a town on the frontier or something, but with regular trade and magical communication, someone would notice something was wrong right away.

Most adventurers get called to investigate a situation after only a few weeks, not months.

>Even if they could figure out who did it, they probably left the region weeks ago
>Divination
>Send warning to King Rapeface up north that baddies are heading his way.
>>
>>44974735
He specifically said they weren't slaves.
>>
>>44974188
WoW and the cowfags.
>>
>>44974188
>>44974778

Dragonlance did it first, right?
>>
>>44974681
Monsters.

Horned demonic fuckers, that slaughter and burn villages.

Monsters.
>>
>>44974778
No, it predates WoW, Wow just helped push it along. I think the noble Minotaur started with dragonlance.
>>
>>44974199

>Monsters won't get a trial..and horned demonic looking fucks won't either.

Tieflings are not uncommon enough for people to not know what they are. While people are a bit iffy about them, it's a stretch to go 'They are hated everywhere and people will go for the noose as soon as possible'

99% of Tieflings are just ordinary people in ordinary towns.

At least, if we are talking 4e Tieflings.
>>
>>44974517
Did you hurt your back stretching so far?
>their god
>god
>singular

>foreign occupation is only present in judaisism
>ignoring the fact that morrowind had the greatest independence of any imperial occupied country at the time.

>reincarnation of a hero figure is limited to judaism

>present day driven out homeland
That is patently untrue, the dunmer have reclaimed all of morrowind except for part of the blackmarsh border
>>
>>44974841
This is why I really disliked their use in 4th.
>>
>>44974117
>muh Morrowcaust
>>
>>44974683
But that's generally how it actually works when an asshole DM decides that killing his players' characters for percieved slights is a jolly old fun
>>
>>44974900

Why? Because it had non-edgy Tieflings?
>>
>>44974930
That was sjw pandering cus muh slaves
>>
>>44974894
The ancient hebrews were polytheistic as well.

And for the Dunmer, especially at that early point, Boethiah is their God. He's the one they put above all others in their early myths. They even attribute some stuff they get from Azura to Boethiah too.
>>
>>44974936
Well that wasn't what we were talking about at all in the slightest.
>>
>>44974943
No such thing.

Drow. Tiefling. Tengu. Kender.
Any player of any of those..will be edgy is chaotic stupid.

Why? No clue. Just look at this thread tho.
>not serve me a drink? I'll kill every fucker in this town!!
Then cry if there are consequences.
>>
>>44974517
The biggest tip off though is that the Devs said during the devlopment of Morrowind that the Dunmer people were being inspired by the ancient Isrealites, much like how the Ancient Imperials are the Romans occupying Israel.
>>
>>
>>44974894
You're really stretching there, anon.
>>
>>44974943
Just having them as a barkeep or shop owner was jarring after so many years of them being the other in every campaign world. I wouldn't have minded if they were a choice for players, but having them show up with the same frequency as Elves or Halflings was bizarre.
>>
>>44974894
>That is patently untrue, the dunmer have reclaimed all of morrowind except for part of the blackmarsh border
So it's kinda like how the Jews have Israel again today?
>>
>>44974936
Oh.
OK. Ignore the thread and talk about something else. That helps.
>>
>>44975072

I've seen plenty of non-Chaotic Stupid Tengu.

Heck, I don't think I've ever seen someone play a Tengu that wasn't wise and calm or at least trying to become such.
>>
>>44975072
Nice projecting here
>>
>>44975025
I will admit that their creation myths probably took some inspiration from judaism. However the culture of slave owning literal demon worshippers is absolutely nothing like that of the jews.
>>
>>44973681
>>44973444


How can we break these down into something that could work for 5e?
>>
>>44975135
Sure if the jews had only lost half their country and reclaimed it themselves
>>
>>44975072
>Tengu
I miss my Kenku.
>>
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>>44974517
>>44974592
>>44974750
And let's not forget they had their long rivalry with the Babylonian Dwemer.
>>
>>44975135
>Dunmer are Jews
>Argonians are Palastinians

I always knew they were lizard people.
>>
>>44975179
Ehhhh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_slavery

Also. you're using the word 'literal' wrong.
>>
>>44975258
Unless I'm mistaken, the only thing the science magic uber atheists share with babylonians is their asthetic.
>>
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>>44975179
Anon, the Jews owned slaves too.

According to the Hebrew Bible, non-Hebrew slaves were drawn primarily from the neighboring Canaanite nations, and religious justification was provided for the enslavement of these neighbors: the rules governing Canaanites was based on a curse aimed at Canaan, a son of Ham, but in later eras the Canaanite slavery laws were stretched to apply to all non-Hebrew slaves.

The laws governing non-Hebrew slaves were more harsh than those governing Hebrew slaves: non-Hebrew slaves could be owned permanently, and bequeathed to the owner's children.
>>
>>44975179
The game Morrowind is basically Israel and the Nerevar is Jesus. They're not even coy about it, the Imperials are Roman as fuck.
>>
>>
>>44975211
You could make racial spells into a separate table (or three) and leave appearance and special effects as they are
>>
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>>44975391
>>44975343

Skyrim continues this as well.

The Dumner ghetto in Windhelm was pretty on the nose, pun intended.
>>
>>44975343
>>44975313
Well I was mostly throwing that in there because I couldn't think of any other dunmer stereotypes at that moment. I stand by my use of literal. The daedra are the closest thing tes has to demons and 2/3 of their pantheon are pretty damn evil.
>>
>>44973370
And then you crawl up someone's anus as he cheers you on.
>>
>>44972240
they're actually from space. their ship crashed on azeroth.
>>
>>44975509
The Religious culture clash just goes hand in hand with the religious clash between the Imperial Polytheism and the Jewish Temple.
>>
>>44975509
Are you Jewish? You seem really against the fact that Dunmer are Jews for some reason.
>>
>>44975339
What about math and science? Babylonians are associated with those concepts.
>>
>>44975509
>refugees winding up in ghettos is unique to the jews.
>>
>>44975651
>Ghetto
>The term was originally used in Venice to describe the part of the city to which Jews were restricted and segregated.
>>
>>44970625
Not everyone understands capitalism, bro. Some people have religious or moral restrictions on behavior, not just profitability.
>>
>>44975651
In a decidedly medieval European setting, a few centuries after a Roman-esque occupation.
>>
>>44974173
Ok
who told the king it was the PCs that murdered the whole town?
Did the PCs tell everyone their name?
Would survivors accounts accurately portray the PCs or would they be bandits or a drow raiding party or some shit like that
Or are wizards going around scrying and speaking with dead at every burnt husk of a village?
>>
The dunmer aren't jewish people! They're japanese, they even have Katanas!
>>
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>>44975589
I don't know why he would be, the Dunmer are fucking cool.
>>
>>44975743
>Or are wizards going around scrying and speaking with dead at every burnt husk of a village?
Obviously
>>
>>44975589
It's a stupid idea.They have almost nothing in common culturally, but people keep posting small things that are similar while ignoring the huge differences. You guys see jews in more things than /pol/acks.

>dunmer have dark skin
>the jews love the blacks
>illuminati confirmed
>>
>>44975762
Katanas are made on Akavir
>>
>>44975802
The dunmer have lots in common culturally and mythically with the ancient hebrews.
>>
>>44974482
>Players save a village
>"We don't serve your kind here."
>Players have a nice picnic the next day as they watch Orc Hordes overrun the town from a nice hillside
>>
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>>44975762
Excuse me?
>>
>>44975776
Yea, that's dumb.
I mean there is a burned village every ten steps!!

Can't swing a dead cat without hitting a slaughtered village!!
So who'd even notice???
Fucking idiot.
>>
>>44975802
>devs said they stole bits and pieces of ancient Israelites for Dunmer culture
>anon hates they got jews in his elves and cries /pol/
>>
>>44975802
Finally! Someone talking sense!

I hate it when people claim that TES races are applicapal to real ones. The worst one are the Imperials, that people keep fucking claiming are Roman despite having HUGE FUCKING DIFFERENCES!
>>
>>44975743
If you were the king and had wizards at your disposal why wouldn't you use speak with dead and scrying to find out who burnt down an entire village? Seriously?
>>
>>44975743
>who told the king it was the PCs that murdered the whole town?
PCs capable of killing a whole town of people would probably be of some note. Also, the original situation was that they were adventurers known to the king from prior dealings
>Did the PCs tell everyone their name?
Again, probably well known. And most players are pretty open about bragging and spreading their names and deeds.
>Would survivors accounts accurately portray the PCs or would they be bandits or a drow raiding party or some shit like that
Considering the racial make up of most parties, it wouldn't be so hard to find them. In the situation, one of them was a tiefling.
>Or are wizards going around scrying and speaking with dead at every burnt husk of a village?
Have you ever played a Wizard?

Besides, all of this is solved by a few Divination spells.
>>
>>44975802
>>44975861
What is wrong with you?

It's interesting.
>>
>>44975877
>If you were the king and had wizards at your disposal
That's a nice setting assumption right here
>>
Kings are just powerless retards who give us money and daughters.

If you disagree... You suck.
>>
>>44974809
>>44974824
I thought the minotaurs of Krynn were just lawful evil instead of chaotic evil.
>>
>>44975832
The players didn't save the village, they were just there to get a drink.

And allowing a whole town to be slaughtered because they're salty about a single racist is kind of a dick move.
>>
>>44975829
Mythically yes, culurally no. Please tell me about the jewish war wizards, with their mushroom houses and giant insect beasts of burden. Tell me of their demonic gods, how those selfsame gods cursed them. Tell me of the jews volcanic strongholds and their secret tradition of shaping bone and chitin into tools.
>>
>>44975907
See! Kings are poor. Have no mages in service.
kek
>>
>>44975907
You're assuming that only the PCs have access to that sort of magic.
>>
>>44975986
>salty
No, its exactly what the type of player that plays a tiefling would do.

Edgy. Little. Twats.
>>
>>44976018
Are mages a dime a dozen in your setting? Disgusting.

>>44976042
Why do you assume I allow PCs to have access to magic?
>>
>>44975968
Actually, they got a "Varies but usually Lawful Evil".

http://www.lomion.de/cmm/minokryn.php
>>
>>
>>44975857
I'm not denying that they took inspiration from israelites, but they took from a lot of other civilizations too, and I guess that I got a little butthurt that people where reducing my favorite fantasy race so hamfistedly.
>>
>>44976078
>>44976085
And here we have a supermassive cunt of a DM
>>
>>44976085
Yes. A mage on every corner.
A burned village on every corner.

Very full corners.
>>
>>44976105
Nah, they're clearly the Jewish analogue in Tamriel. Sure they have some cool originality but they're more Jews than anything else, by a long way.
>>
>>44976085
Anything players can do an NPC should be able to and vice-versa. They're built using the same rules, so I don't see why they wouldn't be allowed to make the same tactical choices.
>>
>>44975893
>>44976105
>>
>>44974517
They have vague Hebraic influence, but insisting they're inherently the same is just absurd. They're also very heavily influenced by Mesopotamian and Egyptian traits.

The naming scheam, ancestor worship, and multitude of idolistic spirits or Saints worshiped lends to this train of thought, as does the importance of burial rights and sanctity of familial tombs

Suggesting that the dunmer are wholesale Hebrew analogs is like saying the Imperials are Roman, although the fact that Bethesda decided to ignore everything interesting about them in the lore and go HURR DURR EVIL ROMANS GONNA TAKE UR SWEETROLLS LEL might lend to that school of though.
>>
>>44976123
>waaaaa reeeeeeee booooooo!
>I don't wanna have consequences for my character!!!
>h8 u!

Time for bed lad.
>>
>>44976105
>a little butthurt

No, you're sperging out like a god damn autismo.
>>
>>44975881
Then why doesn't the King summon them before him and say
"Listen I don't want to waste time and money trying to kill you assholes, and I suppose it would get inconvenient for you if I kept trying. So, you slaughtered an entire village of racist fuckwits and as the king of this realm, I banish you from the kingdom on pain of death. You will have a week to get outside of the border, and there just happens to be a ship sailing to King Jerkface's kingdom tonight. I suggest you be on it."
>>
>>44971899
a King's entire job is to antagonize murderous psychos, brah.
>>
>>44976167
Well, if you have an awful setting. I don't allow PCs to use magic classes at all and NPC mages are like one in a generation.
>>
>>44976186
>Suggesting that the dunmer are wholesale Hebrew analogs is like saying the Imperials are Roman.

That is exactly what we're saying. The Imperials have been Roman ever since Morrowind. The Imperials are Roman in the same way the Dunmer are Jewish.
>>
>>44976186
I think there is some Japan in there too, katanas aside.
>>
>>44975986
No one else in the bar stood up to the racist bartender
If they don't want to serve your kind, just leave the town peacefully and let whatever fate that wouldn't have befallen it if it had some happy adventurers in it come to pass
also have a nice picnic
>>
>>44969463
>Why did Dragonborn become a standard race to chose from?
Dragonfags
>Why did Eldarin?
Elfags
>>
>>44976199
>If you disagree with the popular opinion you are being autistic
Ok bub
>>
>>44976198
>Disgusting players, you don't know what expects you! You'll shudder remembering the day you decided to play something I don't like!
>>
>>44975907
so the king doesn't have 150 gp to pay a cleric for speak with dead? Find that hard to believe. Specially when any good aligned church would be happy to help find out who was responsible for killings, so that the right people were punished instead of heaping the blame onto a third party for no reason.
>>
>>44976202
That would be handling the situation like a reasonable adult human being. Obviously it's not the way the kind of DMs that come to /tg/ could ever do it
>>
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>>44974517
Fuck
>>
>>44976279
>The church discovers that the village was racist, therefore evil
>The pc's are exonerated as doing gods work
>>
>>44976269
No anon, but the way you sperg out about your favorite thing not being super special is pretty bad.
>>
>>44976279
>allowing PC classes for NPCs
>>
>>44976246
No, the Imperials were originally influenced heavily by Japan and Vietnamese folklore, with Roman aesthetics and naming. The Romanization (I assume that's a word) only came as a result of Todd deciding that he wanted fantasy Europe instead of an original setting. Hell, the guards in Morrowind even mention Cyrodill being a jungle.

Also, how many jews practice ancestor worship, practice at mounted combat, and have a government controlled by noble houses? MK even said that they were infuinced mostly by Mesopotamia and nomadic Native Americans tribes.
>>
>>44976279
Ok, which charred corpse are you going to talk to and what if the adventurers destroy the mouth of the corpse?
Unless of course the wizards and clerics magicy magic magic IT WAS THE PCS!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>44976202
That's a possibility too, but then if the players are that kind of murderhobo then they may just choose to kill the king who is right in front of him and take all his stuff.

To get right to the chase, he may do that exact thing, but do it through a messenger or magical communication, giving them a week to get out before he starts sending death squads after them.

Still, someone may have to pay for those deaths and being so lenient may not be a popular choice.
>>
>>44976348
>racist, therefore evil
That's not how it works. In fact, it's the other way around
>>
>>44974517
Before Morrowind they were just Drow. After Morrowind, they were just Jewish Drow.
>>
>>44976202
Um...
Because he can kill them. He doesn't need yo bargain with murderous monsters. Why would he?

Obey the law, or face the consequences.

Why is that difficult for you faggots to understand?
>>
>>44976401
>racism is lawful good
Not in any setting ever conceived anon.
>>
>>44976384
>No, the Imperials were originally influenced heavily by Japan and Vietnamese folklore
Could you explain this? I'm genuinely interested.
>>
>>44976237
He's dealt with murderhobos before. He knows what to do.

That's why he's the king.
>>
>>44976453
In real life
>>
>>44976319
>mass murder
>um...leave by next week
>reasonable

Wut?
>>
>>44976241
Those are stipulation that weren't in play at the start of the scenario.

If that is the case, then the king would probably have to employ investigators or bounty hunters to find out who did the killing. Still, rumors of powerful warriors in the area of the slaughter would be easy to find out.

But if mages are one in a generation, who else would the only mage work for but the king of the realm? The king would probably have him on retainer for situations just like this.
>>
>>44975764
Yeah this is the part I really don't understand
>>
>>44976248
Yeah with the clans and all that
>>44976359
Is it really that weird to try and correct someone when it comes to something you are invested in?
>>44976246
Not really, although you would only know that if you went full lore neckbeard
>>
>>44976384
Jewish ancestor Reverence was very high. Lineage was important, and Jews still name each other after their relatives.
In ancient times, the Israelite did engage in ancestor cults.

The "noble houses" are the different factions in Israel, such as the Zealots, the Pharisees and the Sadducee.
>>
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I don't know who to reply to anymore, so I'll just get my point across.

Yes, their place within the scope of Tamriel is analogous to the Jews, but I wouldn't write them off as "Just Jews".
There's a heavy influence of a bunch of different culture and a bunch of different ideas in there to say they are "Only Jews". You may as well say that they're "Only bug-eaters" because their society heavily relies on them.
>>
>>44976526
>But if mages are one in a generation, who else would the only mage work for but the king of the realm?
Who Merlin, son of Satan worked for? Himself and used Arthur and his dunces as needed
>>
>>44973343
Neither of those work, meta or no. You can't snowcast and energy substitute, because metamagic has to be prepared before the spell is cast, and before the spell is cast its not [cold] so you can't snowcast it, which means no damage, which means no explosive, which means no nuke.

And the peasant railgun is stupid, too. Not only does the book specifically note that free actions only go so far, it also explicitly "puts it into their possession" not moves it through the air at constant velocity. If you're gonna be an autist, don't suck at it.
>>
>>44976460
The old concept for Cyrodill was it to be a swampy jungle region with two major racial gropes, the Nibanese, more rural, tribe like, Imperials noted for being stronger and more traditional, and the Colovians, a sort of like feudal manor-lords. In addition to this, the region was supposed to have a much more diverse aesthetic, with notable Asian influence and large ivory-like channels and bridges. Other than that, we only know the bits from the Pocket Guide V1 and some of the stuff MK has mentioned.
>>
>>44976263
Still kind of a dick move with possible alignment issues, if you use those rules.

I wouldn't be calling them heroes after that either.
>>
>>44976397
True on that first point and the second, though I do enjoy the thought of the King just sending them to be his enemy's problem
For someone having to pay for the crime, blame it on bandits in the area, lord knows they've probably done enough
If there's a noble who's giving you a lot of trouble, dredge up a connection between him and the PCs and you can accuse him of sending the party to slaughter villages in a rival noble's territory.
Take his estate itself, give a section of the land to the 'bereaved' noble to get his support and divvy up the rest among your loyal subjects. That way, you dealt with a noble who would have been a problem down the line, PCs are muderhoboing through a rival kingdom and you can say "I don't how they got there", and you might have earned a new loyal subject.
>>
>>44976348
>racist automatically means you're evil
Paizo dev, pls go and stay go.
>>
>>44976576
But they didn't worship they ancestors, nor did they pray to idols. Those factions also don't form direct analogs, save for perhaps the Zealots slightly lining up with House Indronil.
>>
>>44976544
>Not really

Sorry, but Imperials are Roman as fuck in Morrowind. Maybe not in Redguard, but by the time Morrowind rolled around they were already super-Romans. There's still the jungle and China there, but they were already mostly Romans. It grew from there.

>>44976384
>Imperials
>Japan

Not really. China is closer.
>>
>>44976428
Because he doesn't waste the time or resources it would take to kill them
>The Prince is a level 20 Wizard :^)
>So is the King :^)
>So is everyone else :^)
Then why do they even need adventurers?
>>
>>44976595
No one would.

They're full out evil at that point.
>>
>>44973558
Its not a Cannon its a Railgun, god. The projectile isn't being fired by powder, its being accelerated along the length of the weapon.
>>
>>44976394
>the players specifically maimed each and every body to cover up their actions

Sounds like these hypothetical players not only covered every base but were pretty horrible people.
>>
>>44976592
I knew about the Cyrodiil jungle thing, it's a shame we didn't get to see that stuff.
>>
>>44976394
They'll probably be able to find atleast one intact skull. Most pc's don't think to take the jaw bones off the corpses. That's not to say it won't take a decent amount of effort to dig through all the ashes. It is doable. though.
>>
>>44976650
>But they didn't worship they ancestors

But they did, in really ancient times.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1488-ancestor-worship
>>
>>44976661
Ohh...
So the PCs are the ultimate power in the world eh?
>implying it would take lv 20's

Reach much?
>>
>>44976472
He also used to be one of them.

>>44976606
Practical King is practical.
>>
>>44976696
Just proves the barkeep was correct in not serving their kind.
>>
>>44976595
Whatever floats your stoat as long as not every NPC automatically knows about it and treats them like some kind of monster.
And I would definitely be shitting on them while the describing the village being raided if I was GM'ing, I wouldn't blame them, but I would make clear just how fucked up this is.
>>
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>>44976773
>>44976650
>The belief in the continuing presence of the dead and their and influence on the living has been, in different forms, a feature of Jewish belief from earliest times. This has led to venerating the ancestral dead, and even cults dedicated to them. The Bible itself refers to such practices as ensuring the dead are gathered together with the clan on ancestral land (Gen. 50:24-25), caring for the dead spirits (Deut. 26:14; Isa. 57:6), and consulting them for occult knowledge (Deut. 18:11; Isa. 8:19-22; 19:3; I Sam. 28:3-25).

>It is clear that ancient Israel venerated its dead (Deut. 10:15). Many scholars also believe that the Children of Israel inherited a cult of the ancestral dead, possibly even deified dead, from their Semitic milieu and that it remained a popular belief among Israelites despite the opposition of the Prophets.The burial places of Judges and Rachel may have served as shrine/oracles (Judges 8:30-32, 10:1-15; 12:7-15; Sam. 10:2; Jer. 31:15).
>>
>>44976661
>only the players are allowed to be powerful
>>
>>44974188
Dragonlance.
>>
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>>44976773
>1488
>>
>>44976814
Allingment shift to evil.
Clerics lose spells. Paladins fall. Etc.

On the bright side tho...demons will like them more now.
>>
>>44974809
>>44976877

Specifically, The Legend of Huma. And then the later books. But Kaz, companion of Huma, is the earliest cool minotaur I know of across my fantasy catalog.
>>
>>44974589
Are you self-strawmanning? You've composed for YOURSELF an entire argument that exists only to be knocked down? Fuck dude. You're either some weak troll, or some sad autist.
>>
>>44976904

Yeah though he was rather an anomaly (At least, to start. He was the origin of a movement within the minotaurs to try to be less gigantic dicks)
>>
>>44976904
Dragonlance. The source of honorable minotaur and kendar.
>>
>>44976976
So nothing good ever.
>>
>>44976953
>Yeah though he was rather an anomaly

Like how after Drizzt all drow became chaotic good rebels. People only emulate the anomalies.
>>
>>44974936
No it isn't, you're just a faggot.
>>
>>44977038

Yes but his thing was actually in-universe and as a direct result. Not just 'Players emulate'.
>>
>>44976896
5e fucker!
Alignments don't matter
Chaotic Evil cleric of Boldrei in the house!
>>
>>44975179
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.

Exodus 21:7
>>
>>44975488
Isn't the Jeweler even in there?
>>
>>44977172
>>44975509
>>
>>44975509
>the closest thing tes has to demons

>the closest thing

THEN ITS NOT FUCKING LITERAL IS IT MORON
>>
>>44977156
Another reason that 5e literally sucks goat cock.
>>
>>44975530
>someone's
I love the mystery of this
>>
>>44977255
Eberron had that in 3rd.
>>
>>44977280
Protip, it's OP's.
>>
>>44975802
Guy. Word of God. Deal with it.
>>
>>44975907
setting assumption? The prices for spells and wealth of kingdoms by size are in the core DMG.
>>
>>44977246
I'm sorry I triggered you anon
>>
>>44977295
Ebberon is the most retarded setting in the history of settings.
>>
>>44977346
Got any links or am I going to have to take your word for it?
>>
>>44977459
I thought we just established that Kryn was. Are you only paying attention to (you) posts?
>>
>>44977459
What about Spelljammer?
>>
>>44977514
HEY FUCK YOU!
>>
>>44977459
Ehhhh
I've seen some very retarded settings.
>>
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>>44977459
I really like eberron
>>
>>44976010
Well you see anon, in ancient days the Jews were kept as slaves in Egypt, and labored all day and all night to build the great Pyramids of the Pharaoh-Kings, who called themselves Gods. But the Jews were faithful in their God, the one God, the only true God, and as a result their war-wizards were mighty and numerous. In secret the slaughtered the beasts of the desert, shaping their bone and chitin, working it with the leather of the netch to create arms strong as iron, but light and concealable, pale to reflect the desert sun. When mighty Dagoth Moses emerged from their ancient volcano-lair at Mount Sinai, his people rose up with him, and cast down their Egyptian oppressors, and fled into the desert. But soon, they found themselves running out fo water, and cursing Dagoth Moses for leading them astray. But Dagoth Moses overturned a stone, and showed them the mushrooms there, and he touched them with his staff, and they grew into mushroom houses. And the place where those mushrooms grew is now called "Israel."

The demon god stuff is all in Kabbalah, it's way too complicated to explain here.
>>
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>>44977537
Hey man, I'm not saying it is bad. It's just retarded.
>>
>>44976629
>being this racist
>>
>>44977689
The Bible is cool as shit.

Are there any games set in the Bible?
>>
>>44976384
>with Roman aesthetics and naming

ok bub you win I guess. sure changed my mind
>>
>>44977829
It's not racist to hate Tieflings
>>
>>44976384
>these things were merely designed to look, walk, and quack like ducks, sir. Primarily, the artist was clearly inspired by the noble eagle.
>>
>>44976629
>Not being a racist Lawful Good paladin
>>
>>44977829
Racism is justified in a lot of fantasy settings.

TES, for example.
>>
>>44977689
>Telvanni giving a shit about religion or politics.
>Telvanni shepherding anybody.
>Telvanni trusting the Sixth house. Ever.
> Nothing about the Tribunal being ALTADOON GHARTOK PADHOME
>>
>>44976592
You can still see it a little. Southern is Nibenese, the place with the Dunmer Mayor is Colovian. But it is all genericized.
>>
>>44977033
Aw you're so cute with your edge
>>
>>44977255
Thought this said "great cock"

kinda threw me for a loop
>>
>>44977840
Yeah play Morrowind
>>
>>44977840
Real Life
>>
>>44978037
This was long before the Tribunal, obviously, they aren't even on Morrowind yet. That's all post-diaspora.
>>
>>44972435
Oh no, area damage, what do
>>
>>44977977
>lawful good
>secretly lawful evil
>>
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>>44978633
>lawful good
>secretly lawful evil
>>
>>44975424
I want to protect that smile. But I'm a PALADIN.
>>
>>44970625
People do and say and think stupid shit because of their prejudices.

YOu're basically asking
>Oh, why didn't anyone want Irish in their workforce? THey get their job done just like anybody else!
>>
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>>44968835
I present Nishka ! The most unedgy kawai character in Neverwinter Nights 2 !
>>
>>44979655
To be fair, that was long before 4e, right?
>>
>>44977398
>Pathfaggots
>>
>>44979839
NWN2 came out in late 2006. I'm pretty sure they've already been working on 4E which came out in summer of 2008
>>
>>44970458
>denying players options
>book lists minor prejudices
>All towns hate you, lol!
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