So, hold up a second
>Massive numbers of megafauna all over the world, including numerous species of large predator that may have hunted humans as prey
>Multiple sentient species of hominids of different sizes, shapes, strengths and appearances all running around in the same time period, including Homo habilis (for a bit, anyway), Homo erectus, Homo floresiensis, the Neanderthals, Homo sapiens and maybe even the Denisovians, with lots of warring, and interbreeding going on
Jesus Christ, guys, did the fantasy setting full of multiple sentient species and giant monsters already happen?
I wonder, at the time, when all these hominid species were around, what did they think of each other? I mean, what were the stereotypes?
>Neanderthals are ugly, but are smart and tough as shit
>Erectus are idiotic savages and nobody likes them
>Floresiensis are borderline mythical, only living on their little islands; nobody but their neighbors believes the stories
>Habilis is the slowly fading little ape-people; the other races ignore them and fail to realize they have oral histories that describe fucking megaladons
>Nobody wants to fuck with Homo Sapiens, they're not as smart or as tough as the Neanderthals, but they will murder the shit out of you and swarm across your territory
>outlasted the elves and the dwarves
Nah, the dwarves still exist in tunnels well beyond our current reach, and the elves were, are and will still be killing each other in the mountains and fthe orests for all eternity.
>Nobody wants to fuck with Homo Sapiens, they're not as smart or as tough as the Neanderthals, but they will murder the shit out of you and swarm across your territory
...were we the orcs? Did the orcs win?
It still had to be rough going early on. Imagine being the early human sitting around the fire with your family, when you look over Ug-Nug's shoulder and see the glowing eyes of a pack of giant cave hyenas behind him, just outside the firelight. Then the eerie, inhuman laughter starts...
We were much worse than orcs. We were orcs with high charisma and sex drive.
There is an old saying about Sapiens
"If they fail to rape you by force, then they will make you belive that getting fucked by them was your idea..."
Fun fact: this sort of shit makes up the bulk of humanity's time on this planet. For most of human existence, it was a bloody free-for-all fuckfest with giant monsters and rival sentiments for domination of the planet. We just happened to be born in the sliver of time that is modern history, when all that shit had already happened.
>the oldest language we know is over 200,000 years younger than humanity
Just imagine all the folklore we've forgotten.
Also, how would you stat out the prehistoric races?
Pleistocene Australia was basically Mordor
>Saltwater crocodiles still hanging around
>land crocodiles of similar size
>fucking Megalania, a 23 foot long monitor lizard and probably the closest thing to a dragon any living human probably saw
>actual goddamn drop bears
>wombats the size of hippos
>Just imagine all the folklore we've forgotten.
The Toba eruption, alone, man. Reduced the entire worldwide human population to, what, a thousand breeding pairs? All the surviving human oral traditions, all of our most ancient legends, all the monomyths that persist throughout Indo-European cultures, all from the few tribes that lived through the ashen hell Toba created. Imagine all the oral histories and stories, recollections of battles with sabertooth tigers and rival hominids, ancient creation myths, that died with the rest of the population, and no trace of which survives anywhere.
Straight outta wikipedia
>However, archeological finds in 2007 have suggested that a homo population, probably modern Homo Sapiens, survived in Jwalapuram, Southern India. Moreover, it has also been suggested that nearby hominid populations, such as Homo floresiensis on Flores, survived because they lived upwind of Toba.
Seems like the survivors were more spread out than previously thought but that means fuckall since 99%+ of ancient knowledge was still erased.
Well, Sapiens would just have human stats. Neanderthals would have all the sort of constitution benefits you' associate with dwarves, plus an intelligence boost and some cold resistance. Floresiensis would probably have stats akin to a Halfling, but maybe with an extra Ride (pygmy elephant) skill.
Erectus I can't figure out. Sort of a blend of Neanderthals and humans?
Not all dragons, we made miniature versions of the ones we liked. Unfortunately some of those fuckers were just too sneaky to completely whipe out. I'm looking at you tigers, were coming for you. Whales your also on our radar.
This reminds me of how in my settings I've always wanted to base dragons and other beasts of legend on real prehistoric animals with a fantastic edge, lots of dinosaur and Permian reptile influence in dragons wyverns, and maybe even griffons
I actually read that Megalania went extinct entirely because humans had enough of their shit and set massive brush fires just to kill them. It's like the prehistoric equivalent to nuking the site from orbit, just to be sure.
That new live action Jungle Book movie is going to have King Louie be the last surviving Gigantopithecus worshiped by living apes. They did this since orangutans don't live in Indea but Gigantopithecus did.
Humanity is like some weird amalgamation of Skynet and the Three Stooges. Like, we're smart enough to sail to Easter Island, but dumb enough to chop down literally every tree and utterly obliterate the local environment until we're in a Road-tier situation and eating babies.
Compared to other species on Earth we are an unstoppable godlike force that has achieved self awareness, and then used that power to shit in our bowl of cereal and then attempt to eat out of it if you will. Think of the elephants. We have obliterated their society of elderly matrons controlling tribes and replaced it with starving, traumatized remnants that raid human farms both for food and pleasure. That's fucking Skynet. The reason we're doing it? Fix our penises. Sounds like a comedy act.
My point is that sometimes I wonder if ANY animal could handle true human-style intelligence. Could crows do better? Crows are bros after all fuck ravens. Would they fuck up just as hard?
I like to think that, if it wasn't us who rose to the top via intellect, it'd be some kind of octopus.
They're freaky smart, doubly so if you consider how short their lifespans are.
Considering chimpanzees form mini-nations and make weapons and routinely go on murder/rape/cannibalism raids on other chimpanzee nations I think we should be grateful it was us, a relatively less brutal primate.
in4 "I want /pol/ to leave"
Every other animal species and especially apes would be just as horrible as humans. If they were sapient, look at the chimps. They are more violent then humans, they are the violent short murder trolls of earth.
They're a contender for the next most intelligent species, but they're held back by lack of culture. Octopuses don't teach each other anything because the parents die so quickly after giving birth.
Though that makes their intelligence even more impressive because it means that every octopus is self-taught.
>it'd be some kind of octopus
Nah m8, you need more complex social structures, enough for a transmission of information from individual to individual, to have a growing civilization.
I say elephants would be better for this.
Octopus are smart but currently the smartest animals are believed to be chimps, dolphins and certain corvids
also to have a successful society one needs to look at a species' tool using potential. In this aspect the chimp wins outright, followed by the corvids. Dolphins, while smart, just don't have the build for tool usage and suffer heavily from being aquatic.
While an octopus would be decently equipped for tool usage sadly it being an aquatic species would again severely limit it in this aspect.
Might be a boring answer but if it wasn't us, it'd have likely been some form of chimp (though probably not the bonobo, sure they're clever as fuck but they're also caring, peaceful and not particularly expansionist)
>Whales your also on our radar.
I feel like Orca whales are the ones we really need to watch out for.
Most concerning thing: Orcas eat everything except humans.
Like, if there's a goddamn moose swimming around, an Orca will eat it. There is EXACTLY one exception to their omnivory.
But for some reason humans are off limits.
WHY? And it's not like sometimes an Orca will taste a human and decide it doesn't like the flavor either, they just leave us alone entirely, and this is a species that is known for its curiosity and innovation.
The ONLY explanation I can think of is that at some point they DECIDED not to eat us. The species got together and said "we need to leave these things alone or they could wipe us off the goddamn planet". They made a rational, logical decision based on reasonable projections into the future. That is fucking TERRIFYING in and of itself, but what's perhaps even more terrifying is the fact that ALL orcas appear to obey this species-wide law (not counting captives here) and the fact that the law is at least a millennia old and there has been no deviation from it. Humans fall prey to the trap of circular history: once the generations that witnessed a mistake die off, the subsequent generations INVARIABLY make the same mistake again no matter how well they are warned against it, but somehow Orcas do not seem to have this problem.
The suprising jump in society quality happened after neanderthals disappeared, and is most likely due to females preferring more...civilized mates that could cooperate better with other males than the "alpha males" that didn't get along well.
Dolphins have been recorded using tools, though. And they frequently use their environment as a sort of proto-tool. Dropping shellfish on rocks to break them open, corralling schools of fish by kicking up sand cyclones, etc.
Dude, you see what kind of shit lives on Australia NOW, imagine the fucked up horrors that must have been lurking in the jungles back where there were proper jungles to lurk in. Turning the thing into a damn desert was probably a good idea on balance.
I wonder what its like for an intelligent self-aware animal to share a planet with humans
Folks here have likely seen how those uncontacted tribes react to helicopters, and they're humans, imagine being an orca and meeting ship. You're just smart enough to understand just how big a fucking deal it is, but everything else is completely beyond your grasp
Fully aware, still they do not have accurate manipulators like chimps or corvids (no, that's not a joke, go look up what certain crows can do with their beaks and talons) and most importantly: they are completely and utterly incapable of ever getting the fire advantage over their environment
He's saying that they aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. Rather, orcas are playing a long game to wait out the human presence and make sure to not needlessly antagonize them.
look at the bright side
we were the bad guys all along AND WE WON
There probably was this desperate gathering of hominids all banding together for one last stand against the Sapiens horde, and they got slaughtered.
I'd laugh if jumping orcas are their own species' equivalent of skateboarding teenagers. All the older orcas think the jumpers and flippers are useless drains on orca society and complain about them constantly in orca-speak.
As much as we like to convince ourselves otherwise, the bad guy usually win. Not just in human society, but in nature as a whole.
Okay, after checking wikipedia, that is damn creepy - plenty of attacks in captivity, including fatalities, but in the wild there's exactly one recorded bite, and he lived.
That's a little unnerving
nah, they'd get assimilated through forced breeding within the span of a few generations and as a result you'd get some chimps who are prettier and sluttier than usual who probably end up being the wives of the great chimp conquerors
Seems unlikely. Orcas are deadly and whatnot, but seals and shit escape from them on a regular basis. Hell, sometimes Orcas will catch a seal, fuck with it for a bit, then let it go for what seems like no reason.
It's terrifying because it shows long-term planning perhaps beyond even what humans are capable of, planning beyond the next few generations and an ability to abide by decisions made by generations you've never met in a way that humans cannot. They have to know that their food supply is dwindling, and they have to understand that humans are to blame. So do they have a plan?
>Whales have no manipulators, advanced culture
>Octopi have excellent manipulators, no culture
>Both live in the same environment
>Both are extremely intelligent
You thinking what I'm thinking /tg/?
what about a more tragic scenario where they know their food supplies are dwindling, they know humans are to blame, they have spend centuries planning how to fix it but then just gave up because they also realized there was no way they could ever compete with our technology
now they're just trying to stay alive long enough for our species to go extinct through our own actions without taking them down with us
it's no wonder some cultures revered them as deities. imagine swimming or boating somewhere all by your lonesome, and you come across something that looks like a camouflaged shark on steroids, and it comes up to you... and then just swims away.
that's some vision-quest shit right there.
Maybe orcas don't attack people because they're sentient and they know that we're sentient too?
A population of orcas starts feeding octopi. At first this is just to lure them out from where they're hiding because octopi taste fucking awesome, but soon they begin to respect how clever the little shits are, and the octopi learn that the whales are a source of food if they do tricks for them.
Eventually the whales learn that the octopi hear in a very specific frequency, and that they learn very quickly: the orcas are able to give the octopi commands and train them to obey with positive reinforcement, just the way humans train dogs. As generations pass, the orcas would get better and better at training the octopi because they would pass down their techniques to their children. At some point they might even discover breeding, and start selecting for traits that make the octopi better service animals.
Think of it like how a quadriplegic human can train a monkey to do things like pick up a phone and shit.
That's an understatement. Common chimps patroll their territory in groups, and if they see a single male from another clan they kill it.
Bonobos don't patroll their territory at all, and if they spot bonobo of the other sex from another tribethey interact with them, often ending in sex.
Bonobos are the homo sapiens of the great apes, sexsexsexsexsex and fucking smart on top.
They reckon the oldest one is over 100 - there's photos of her from the 30's at least, and she's still seen fairly often today - hell, the oldest ones in captivity are in their 50's
Yeah, something that smart, that lives that long, that's probably worth a second look
At some point in pre-history we worked for Sauron. After we slaughtered the other hominids he was all "Hey, good job! I'm going to go taker over the neighboring solar system, you guys lock this shit down until I get back. Maybe work on fusion or something while I'm gone."
Wouldn't having social octopi require less suspension of disbelief?
Like familiar groups breeding on corals and learning to interact and manipulate to better form defences in the form of rearrangement of the corals and coordination to flee from predators?
Neanderthals probably weren't that smart never mind crafty like dorfs though.
There is this craze about Neanderthals because we've found something that exists in Out-Of-Africa populations but not in Africans so we aren't just mutant niggas. But really it was probably a bad idea to breed with them and mostly gave deleterious genes that have been selected out, and selection + mutation, not Neanderthal admixture is the cause of any advantages Eurasians have over Africans.
It's usually only Europeans that obsess over Neanderthals anyway, East Asians have even more of the stuff and I haven't heard of them giving a shit.
They were smart but stubborn. Archaeological findings suggest that they had things such as jewelry and burial rituals before homo sapiens, but somewhere along the line they stopped progressing.
I don't know if it's fair to characterize their whole species based on that - plenty of human cultures have had periods of stagnation and decline, doesn't mean we don't generally trend towards progress.
Maybe Sapiens entered Europe during some sort of Neanderthal Dark Age equivalent, which sped along their decline and our ascent. Seems less farfetched than thinking the Neanderthals hit some sort of invisible ceiling on progression and development.
You ever wonder how many generations it took for that to kick in? Like, we have pretty solid evidence that Homo Habilis was part of the ordinary diet for the saber-toothed cat species that lived in Africa. They were not afraid of Habilis's stone tools and weapons one bit. We've also got pretty good evidence for a group of Homo Erectus being devoured by giant cave hyenas in China; the remains indicate they had a well practiced way of popping Erectus skulls off in order to eat the lipid-rich brains.
How long did it go on like this? At some point we killed enough of them that they learned to back off and give us our room, but before that they routinely came into our communities in the night and dragged us off into the dark, screaming all the way. It probably took a few centuries to teach them manners, and in the meantime we had to live in a hell of claws and fangs painted in our blood.
There is a REASON human beings still have a deep, visceral fear of being eaten alive.
It could also be that there were cultural reasons, like they knew that there were alternatives to their tools/customs/lifestyle but they rejected them because they saw them as unnecessary.
From Animorphs, but in the other direction:
>I had encountered intelligence in a morph before. But there was something new here. New for me, at least. The orca was aware. Of me. Of something, someone directing its behavior.
>It knew, in some incomplete, simplistic way, that it was being controlled.
><Let's go, big boy,> I said.
>No answer from the orca, of course. But that cool, appraising intelligence, though it was devoid of memory of learning, empty of all knowledge except the knowledge encoded as instinct, that intelligence watched me.
I read somewhere that their smarts probably had more to do with things like art and culture and less with technological progress and invention.
So if they existed today they would probably be less technologically advanced but would have a much deeper culture.
So if bonobos are the animu meme-elves, then Neanderthals are the standard fantasy elves.
Actually in some parts of the world carnivores still enter smaller communities and drag of victims. Really the only reason why it doesn't happen much anymore is because we have created an environment that the dangerous predators don't like.
>communication by skin color change
>perfect tool manipulation using tentacles
too bad you can't light a fire underwater, and cephalopods aren't very social animals (and they die immediately after reproducing).
> However, this hypothesis is not widely accepted because similar effects on other animal species have not been observed, and paleoanthropology suggests no Population Bottleneck happening.
"Surprisingly, the scientists found genetic overlap between the Denisovan genome and that of some present-day east Asians, and, in particular, a group of Pacific Islanders living in Papua New Guinea, known as the Melanesians. It appears the Denisovans contributed between 3 to 5 percent of their genetic material to the genomes of Melanesians. Scientists think that the most likely explanation is that Denisovans living in eastern Eurasia interbred with the modern human ancestors of Melanesians. When those humans crossed the ocean to reach Papua New Guinea around 45,000 years ago, they brought their Denisovan DNA over with them."
it's not 100% proof but it's most likely the case just like neanderthals. otherwise it's a wild coincedence that i share 5% of my dna with denisovans.
Floresiensis is either a halfing or a the other kind of "Children of the Forest" style little person elf. Not sure about Erectus or Habilis; they're sort of their own thing. One's the not very smart but far more ancient lineage, while the other was taller than humans (Homo Sapiens was pretty short back in the day, but Erectus reached six feet with regularity) but was dumber and still kind of ape like.
>All the older orcas think the jumpers and flippers are useless drains on orca society and complain about them constantly in orca-speak.
>assinine "breaching is not a crime" stickers
I'm thinking less elves and more pic related.
It's not that frequent. Most big predators will not willingly prey on humans. The most famous man-eaters in history were often found to have some sort of injury like an infected tooth molar or a bum leg that made hunting and killing their regular prey too difficult, so they turned to humans. That, or they were presented with too many opportunities to eat human corpses, and realized we were an option.
Granted, that second one's a bit unnerving. It suggests the reason most of them don't eat us and shy away from us when we show up is simply because we're so uncommon in their environment that they don't know what to make of us, so they keep their distance. But when they realize we're easy to kill? Then they eat us.
Though not always. Some predators have been observed attacking and mortally injuring humans, but then they don't eat us, even when they could, and they don't form a habit of hunting us even when they know we're easy to kill. That suggests they have an instinct to stick to their regular prey and avoid us.
still a long jump to civilization but its a start. main obstacles are lack of fire and metal smelting.
That's why the proposed symbiosis with whales is fucking perfect. Orcas with well trained octopi could build structures, weave, tie knots. Perhaps more importantly for the context of this thread, it would give them a way to manipulate OUR technology: there's nothing a human hand can do that an octopus can't do better.
>A single, unexpected assault
>The whales use their trained octopi and take over several warships
>The crews taken hostage, floating around the ships in a protective circle; they know we don't like killing our own.
>For more than 48 hours the standoff continues.
>The navy has no fucking clue how to handle this.
>The Orcas use brute-force and sink several of the ships then release the hostages.
>We hear about the trained octopi at that point, but nobody really believes it.
>Meanwhile, the orcas are studying the ships they sank, practicing.
>Soon whenever a fishing boat goes anywhere near an Orca pod's territory they lose all rudder control: the octopi are sent into the mechanisms of the ships, forcing them to turn around and return to port.
>Octopus training spreads to every resident Orca pod on the planet: fishing becomes impossible on the scale required by humanity.
>Humans design octopus-proof ships, but the orcas eventually find the flaws: no moving parts in or even near the water are safe from octopus sabotage.
>Japan, with a culture that doesn't give a fuck about whales anyway and a massive reliance on seafood, takes the offensive.
Why do we dream of Orcs, /tg/?
Whence the Woodwose and the Almas? Orang Pendak and Yeti? Why do the Aborigines tell of the Yowie and the Pakistanis of the Barmanou? The Native Americans of the Sasquatch and the Chinese of the Yeren?
Humanity knows the Forest Goblin and the People of the Mounds. Our stories and our fears tell us to watch for them and beware.
But they are long gone, present now only in half-remembered and buried bones.
Take note that many monsters that suposedly exist and cryptids are or were based on those.
>mapinguari = megatherium
>cyclops = misinterpreting a mamoth skull
>dragon = motherfucking dinosaus
>unicorn = rhino
>wild men = apes
>kraken = colossal squid
>sea serpent = weird long fish don't remember the name
>yeti or big foot = gigantopithecus
By then it will be too late
>That's when we discover that the orcas had been breeding and training Blue-ringed octopi (pic related).
>One of the most poisonous creatures of the planet, the orcas had been training the octopi as weapons of war.
>Up to a dozen of the cephalopods could be ejected from an Orca's blowhole at once, like a shotgun blast, littering an enemy ship with lethal mollusks trained to kill.
>But the Japanese wouldn't stop, they couldn't, or they would starve.
>So the orcas would began to shoot their venomous octopi into the cities. Able to survive up to an hour on land, the octopi were trained to seek out humans and kill them.
>Eventually, Japan gave up. They stopped intruding upon the orcas' territory, and the orcas stopped making it rain poison octopi.
Two things come to mind:
>90%+ of all music was never recorded
>"fairy tales" as we know it are what was written. Before, they had no canon, and were mixed up in all kinds of ways.
When roleplayers mix Star Wars and dragons at a table, they're reliving the creation of fairy tales, except for the camp fire. Even changing the story based on the audience's reaction corresponds.
Technically, we don't dream of orcs; they were a JRR Tolkien invention. Also, the Native Americans didn't tell stories about Sasquatch (it's not even a Native American word) and the Aboriginal Yowie was a giant lizard-frog,
How about a prehistoric setting with neanderthal necromancer rasising dinosaurs?
Or homo erectus fighting lizard-men in the center of the Earth?
Also fighting ancient aliens with stick and stones.
No, he's right. The earliest accounts of the unicorn come from Persia, where it's closer to the Karkadann, a misinterpretation of the rhino (it's really obvious when you look at old Persian karkadann descriptions) and from Persia the legend spread to Greece and then Rome, gradually being altered into a more equine creature; the classic white unicorn with cloven hooves, a goatee, and a lion's tail didn't emerge until the Medieval period, based on Greco-Roman versions.
While the second guy is right, it is worth noting that almost every mythology on Earth, including many African traditions, Native American traditions, and of course Indo-European traditions, includes stories of both A) diminutive nature spirits and B) large and aggressive ogre-men.
Although it's weird; in the Plains tribes like the Arapaho and the Apache, there's a recurrent belief that in pre-history there was a race of supernatural cannibalistic dwarves that lived in the Rocky Mountains, and who went to war with the humans on the plains, raiding and devouring entire villages. This supposedly wasn't stopped until all the plains tribes united against the cannibal dwarves and eradicated them.
Depends on the table you play with.
Yeah, yes. Do a little research before being a lazy disbeliever.
Fuck off. These giant animals were a pain in the ass to get rid off, the yate all the flora, preyed upon all the fauna, and were in a direct fight for survival AGAINST us.
Fuck em, and fuck you, you non-human sympathizer. Go hug a lion and get mauled.
Homo Sapiens is the elf race.
>Best with ranged weaponry
>Highest range of vocalizations
Whenever I conceive of my fantasy stone age setting I always make humans the best at magic too, because why not.
> they only stopped to reactivate Fukishima's pumps, filling the waters of the pacific with radiation so strong and undetectable by the whales that they all become infertile.before even noticing
> nippon starves, but saves humanity with a last banzai
Would watch that movie.
>but not INSIDE the vulcano.
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How you guys would think of this?
>IQ 150, smarter than even current men
Should they be treated like elves?
Homo erectus was taller. You have to keep in mind pre-historic Homo sapiens were generally shorter than they are now, closer to five feet on average, while Erectus was usually between five and six.
Using 5e races because fuck you.
Humans. Variant humans, and keep the feats to skills and survival based, please; No magic or power weapon/ armor feats.
Dwarves. Fuck you, they have the stats of dwarves. Swap out armor prof of mountain dwarves with Cold resistance. Hill Dwarves are fine as is.
Forest Gnome OR Ghostwise Halfling. Because yeah.
Normal Halflings. Bards are common among this race.
Half Orcs. Because fuck Erectus.
Greys are High Elves. Totally.
Dragonborn. Different castes based on skin. Actual Lizardfolk are Saurians.
Motha fuckin Tieflings.
>Variant Beast races based on DM's mood.
Yeah, all the recent archaeology has shown pretty well that if anything agricultural productivity was on an increase, not a decrease, when the population all died off.
The evidence of cannibalism was based purely on early 20th century researchers seeing cutmarks on human bones and assuming that was the only possible explanation, while actually talking to people there and doing more excavations in recent years has shown that repurposing the bones of those who died naturally into tools was common practice. And the whole "retreated into caves" part of the traditional story was based on storm shelters that were actually occupied at the same time as the aboveground houses.
About the only part of the collapse narrative that still has evidence supporting it is that their religious system did completely collapse in a shockingly short period of time, coinciding with the death of most of their population. But coincidentally, that happens during the couple of decades between their first European contact (which, according to the diaries, involved a lot of sex with STD-riddled Dutch sailors) and their second European contact.
Hyenas are creepy as shit.
>and they die immediately after reproducing
YOU DIE IMMEDIATELY AFTER REPRODUCING!!!
I go for a very old school approach to classes, banning them for certain races/ cultures.
Anyone who can swing a stone axe can become a barbarian. Common among homonids rather than fighter.
Homonid only, primarily common among Habilis, with sapiens and Neanderthals catching on quickly.
Life, Light, Nature, and Tempest rules the day of Homonids. War is catching on with Erectus. Greys worship no gods, but have access to Knowledge domain. Lizards are godless atheists. warp demons access cleric as their demonic heritage demands.
Homonid only class. Circle of Moon only available to Florensis only.
Same with Barbarian, though this is more common among the alien races due to technology.
Lizards and warp demons only. Typically evil.
Beast master available only to homonid. Other subclass available to all.
Available to all.
Dragon available to Lizards. Wild Magic available to homonids and warp demons and Greys. Storm Magic available to homonids and warp demons only.
All paths available to Warp Demons. Speak with story teller otherwise.
Neanderthal, Grey, and Lizard class only.
Honestly, I'd prefer to play a pre-historic setting set in the real world, playing as actual hominids from the time dealing with each other and the local fauna. Only magic I'd want would be weird trippy "the shaman just gave me peyote" visions or very subtle stuff where you're not sure if it's just weird natural coincidences or not.
A few slipped away. I mean, technically grizzly bears, elephants, Siberian tigers, etc, they're not dissimilar from stuff that would have been running around in the Pleistocene. They're genuine megafauna that survived.
>Squibbon give Birth to their Babies.
>Megasquid are the only Predator might eat Squibbon. Squibbon use the Rock to Throw Megasquid head.
>male and female Squibbon using their arm to wrap round incharge to mate with.
The fuck happened here?
>Brain case size in primates generally points towards a greater capacity for intellect and reasoning. Don't be obtuse.
The shape of the skull indicates that it wasn't necessarily larger frontal lobes though, which is the real indicator. Neanderthal brain cases were larger, but the biggest increase in size was in the occipital lobe. We also think they had better somatic control.
It's been a while since I read about it in any detail, but I think that was actually a big part of it. Neanderthals were better hunters strictly speaking, but they a) needed more energy and had to hunt more and b) got hurt way more often because the shit they were hunting was goddamn dangerous. HS didn't get up close and personal as often
yeah sometimes i think that, as the only species with civilisation, we should try our best to share it with other beings
like we should try as hard as possible to make the planet a safe haven for human like intelligence among many species
but sometimes i think that's stupid
I read once that, based on many Neanderthal skeletons having healed fractures consistent with injuries sustained by rodeo riders, it was theorized that they liked to jump on their prey and start stabbing it, or even wrestle it to the ground. The were probably stronger than humans (especially in the arms and hands) and there's little evidence of projectile weapons in their grave goods, both of which back this theory up.
Think about this, /tg/. This means, back in the day, our ancestors could have been treated to the ridiculously kickass scene of a bunch of Neanderthals, armed only with stone knives if that, all dogpiling some unsuspecting megafauna and wrestling it to the ground before bashing its skull in with a rock..
I would go so far to say, in fact, that give the hundreds of thousands of years that passed when life was like this for hominids, that there is a very real possibility somebody once tried it on a saber toothed tiger. There's just so much time there, odds are good that if it could have happened, it did.
I want you to think about that. At some point some Neanderthal (or really impressed Homo Sapiens/Erectus trying to imitate him) may have had himself a Smilodon Rodeo.
>relatively less brutal
After like, fucking millions of years occupying our evolutionary niche, yeah. When humans (or humanity's ancestors) were at societal levels that basic (or, I guess, nonexistant) I guarantee you we were just as fucked up.
Im sorry anon. The current leading theory is that they were essentially operating as a species with Asperger syndrome, and voices like, well, this.
Have you not heard of Elasmotherium?
Do you not have a sense of wonder at the animals we share our world with, and a regret we exterminated so many without truly knowing what we were doing? There are no passenger Pigeons, Great Auks, Thylacines or Dodos anymore, because we wiped them out. If you can't feel anything for that, then you must be one of those Extinctionists.
I'm all for bringing back extinct animals, but as someone who lives in what was pigeon central I don't look forward to shitrain and needing a bird feeder that can handle a couple million animals.
I'm very much in favour of De-Extinction, but I doubt we'd see it during our lifetimes. And even if we do pull it off, most of the environments these animals inhabited are long gone now, and given the way we're wrecking the climate, there won't be much room for any of them even if we do bring them back.
>imagine the fucked up horrors
we don't really have to imagine the horrors since we have the fossil record to show us that it used to be home to venomous lizards the size of crocodiles, lion sized carnivorous Diprotodontia, and 8ft tall carnivorous ducks.
Mauritius was fine, it was the introduction of pigs and moneys that ate their eggs and disrupted their breeding that drove them to extinction. Contrary to belief, the Dodo was not good eating, it was too fatty.
The Dodo is probably one of those we could return safely because it went extinct in comparatively recent times. Compare that to the Woolly Mammoth. There is almost nowhere left that resembles the Pleistocene Mammoth Steppe they inhabited.
Honestly there is an argument to be made that we can't bring the mammoth back as they should be allowed to die out "gracefully" rather than subjected to our race trying to feel good about themselves
i don't see any grace in extinction? not trying to say that de-extinction is a super ethical thing on par with like reforestation and shit, but yknow.
imagine the possibilities, though- a sentient race of birds for humans to live and work with as a force for greater good or something
The point is that if a human died then there re those who argue that they should not be brought back if it is possible, this is the same idea just on the scale of a entire species
Maybe that's why abbos are so primal. They were never given a chance to develop, by the time they had finally evolved to fight back the fauna, there came a bunch of irish criminals from the ocean to fuck with them.
According to some mythology the aborigines could send messages between groups telepathically over great distances, and that's why they didn't advance in a few areas like writing and transportation. They just didn't need it.
Here have some /tg/ homebrew relevant to the discussion.
It only has Neanderthals and a short monster list, but it's OSR, so you can easily bolt in whatever Megafauna ideas you want and Homo species.
Marsupial lion. They are thought to have liked dropping on prey from trees in the same way that leopard do.
>But an analysis of its scapula suggests "walking and trotting, rather than climbing ... the pelvis similarly agrees with that of ambulators and cursors [walkers and runners]". "These bones indicate that Thylacoleo was a slow- to medium-paced runner, which is likely to mean it was an ambush predator. That fits with the stripes: camouflage of the kind you need for stalking and hiding in a largely forested habitat (like tigers) rather than chasing across open spaces (like lions).
They were mini tigers, not drop bears
I know at least one Russian scientist wants to set off massive areas of Sibera as basically woolly mammoth reservations (and any other Pleistocene megafauna we revive): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_Park
There's even an entire theory behind it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_rewilding
more recent size estimates suggest it may have only been about 18ft long instead of earlier 23-26ft estimates. That's still huge, but that would bump it down to the second largest terrestrial carnivore on Australia. Since the Quinkana fortirostrum was about 20 ft long
We live in such pampered cowardice, telling our children there's nothing that goes bump in the night because we killed those things off a hundred thousand years ago.
Thanks gramps, the only reason this planet has a spinning core is because our collective ancestors are rolling in their graves at the thought of us.
Humans taste like shit.
Animals are more aware of poisonous substances, it's why poison traps are usually only effective against urban animals that have grown used to foreign chemicals in food.
Interesting example of this: there used to be bison in Mesopotamia (vaguely similar to the North American variety) that were already starting to go extinct by the dawn of recorded history. Because they were essentially relics of the past, they were associated with legendary heroes and often appeared with them on statues and monuments
Interesting, but there were some flaws in the article.
First, it makes a very big deal of the size of the brain. However, it's possible that those hominids had larger brains to compensate for less folding. The article assumes those hominids had the same amount of gyrification as us, but I never saw any evidence of that.
Second, using IQ. The "average IQ" is always 100, based on thousands of tests at a given time and place, like 50s France, which would have a different average than 50s India, which was different than 1200 BC Egypt and so on.
How does one estimates the average IQ without testing prehistoric hominids? What was "100" for boskop hominids, or sapiens at the time? An IQ of 150 is only achieved by less than 5% of a given society, very exceptional.
I did this with alien's once. They had an equivalent of octopus that lived for centuries, that only socialized during mating. They were titanically intelligent, but only ever shared ideas during mating seasons.
First contact with humans and these philosopher-octopI was frustrating, since both recognized intelligence in the other but didn't know where to go beyond the most rudimentary communication.
Young bull elephants have been seen raping, and getting drunk.
However, it is possible that the poaching caused this, killing the elders and creating the equivalent of fatherless slum delinquents.
Have the mysticism be scaled up versions of crafts basic to human civilisation.
>Mastery of Language. Speak to other races, speak to animals, fuck with people's heads using your beautiful and terrible words.
>Mastery of Flesh. Create medicines and poisons, extra sickness to create living curses or exorcise miasmic spirits and close wounds. Speak to bones and organs to make the strong.
>Mastery of Fire. Learn how to find and draw flame from the world. Extract it from stone or wood or fat and bless your fellows with it's warmth and truthful light. Throw it at your hated enemies and obliterate them entirely.
>Mastery of Making. Make tools and toys and weapons and stranger things still. Make things that other men will kill and die for. Make indestructible things. Make things out of nothing at all. Never be without a thing.
>Mastery of Runes. Learn the true names of things to see their spirit. Mark the names with lines and colour to bind them. Bind the soul of your tribe and find immortality in lettering. Capture the essence of gods with your mighty alphabet.
These Masteries and more exist and may be combined in strange ways.
>A master of Runes and Language writes the names of the Gods on a stone. The stone draws many men to the master who rules over them as High-Priest, speaker for the gods.
>A master of Making and Flesh builds hard and shining hides. He sews them into his body, becoming indestructible but must bath in burning liquid to ward off the demons draw to his new body.
>A master Fire and Language roams the plains as a lone demon. His voice is so terrible and his visage so hot and horrible no man can is capable of killing him. He gorges himself and flees into the night.
>A master of Runes and Flesh herds men and women. In a cave he keeps his soul bound in writing. He breeds the men and women until he sees himself in child. He takes the child to the cave, surpassing death itself.
Autists are empathetic, they are just bad at emotional communication.
In very exaggerated terms, a sociopath can't feel an interlocutor's emotions but can understand and communicate the ques perfectly. An autists feels the interlocutor's emotions vividly but cannot understand and communicate them back, they also don't get the non-spoken ques.
It's related. Australian wildlife is so, huh, vicious, because the land has little resources and energy. This also means lack of arable land, WATER (big problem there), good local crops, etc. Australia may be a great exporter of wheat now, but that's due to modern technology.
Also, no animals to be domesticated as beasts of labor, no trade of ideas, animals and crops with other cultures...
The guys had the worse odds ever for developing a civilization.
This alternate history setting explores the idea much deeper:
No, we knew what we were doing. Those fucks needed to die for us to live and evolve. Makes me wonder how /tg/ handles the extinction issue in their settings though.
In mine, a number of species evolved to be op as balls in barious ways, wiping out hundreds of other species. The creatures that remain do so because, as a species, they are still fit to. Each has an edge over the other. There is still some non-sapient megafauna and weird creatures that sneak in from the feywild but thats about it for non-sapient dangerous stuff.
In general, in my setting, if its a dangerous enemy native to the prime material, its sapient.
Fair enough. Still not convinced we hunted them to death, especially not intentionally. Seems more realistic that we fucked their ecosystem and they evolved into modern sloths. Which is sorta how evolution tends to go.
So how do you handle extinction events etc in your setting? Is it ongoing, in the past, what?
Well they probably made for good eating especially when other creatures were in low demand and it's more likely then not global warming killed them off rather then humans. The warming climate and changing terrain meant they were gonna need to get smaller evolve or die out.
And they choose to die out humans would of had little impact compared to the huge changes going on in the environment.
Humans are deathly afraid of evolution leaving them behind because a necromancer kept raising extinct creatures and showing how incompetent modern humans were against creatures that went extinct anyway.
Humans from the largest country are extremely racist and want everything else gone because the only thing they have on other humanoids is numbers. The king of one country is the grandson of the last fantasy-neanderthal/giant and the features show through, reason enough to war agains said country. Elves were wiped almost entirely in the last war, dwarves have been gone for a while. Necromancy, telepathy, vampirism and other "powers" run in bloodlines but aren't detectable to the naked eye as the features of other "inhuman races" which generates lots of xenophobia and hostility.
Not hard to understand. Humans are the only revenge hunters. Kill a human child? They'll track you to your den and annihilate your entire family. Hunting humans is selected against.
So you realize that Neanderthals were whites, Floresiensis were abbos, and homo sapient dabbled with erectus to make blacks, right? That was the last great biological shift in the gene pool. Everything since has just been genetic engineering of lesser species, and technology.
>So you realize that Neanderthals were whites
>Floresiensis were abbos
>homo sapient dabbled with erectus to make blacks
Good lord you're retarded
Neanderthals bred with everybody, and we have no evidence of men crossbreeding with homo erectus or floresiensis