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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

Thread replies: 329
Thread images: 39
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>>44949283
Unban Twin please
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Every post is a Swamp in addition to its other types Edition.
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Rolled 5, 4 = 9 (2d6)

>>44949353
I cast Cancel. Roll for responses.
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Time to /MEME/ this shit up
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>>44949400
It's a memedeck
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>>44949408

How come I don't see the prices spiking then?
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>>44949400
Which version? UWR or UWRG?
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>>44949423
People haven't caught on. It's really legitimate. Its only "bad time" matchup is Grixis.
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>>44949319
>>44949269
>being this oblivious
Miracles is strong but not moreso than e.g. Twin was pre-ban. Power levels are much more flat in Legacy. Other decks fill every archetype under the sun.

If you cry about having to play blue, you're literally complaining about nothing but the color (as in actual color, as in nothing but aesthetic or fashion)since blue fulfills mechanically different roles (all of them, really) in Legacy

If you care about the aesthetic when the mechanics will be whatever you like, you're definitely autistic.
>>
Just you guys wait, when they reprint the cycling lands in Shadows over Innistrad, Loam Pox will be THE deck to beat
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>>44949439
>It's really legitimate

Maybe for a tier 3 meme deck
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>>44949463

You can't be tier 3 and be a meme deck at the same time
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Rolled 1, 4 = 5 (2d6)

>>44949382
In response, Guttural Response.
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>>44949445
Every single miracles player I've ever met is convinced than playing anything other than miracles is 100% objectively incorrect and that miracles has 90/10 matchups vs. every other deck in the format.
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>>44949400
just bought this deck, hope it does well
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>>44949445
>blue fulfills mechanically different roles (all of them, really) in Legacy
Are you so fucking dense you can't see why that's not a good thing?
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>>44949546
Are you so fucking dense you can't see why it doesn't matter at fucking all unless you're a 12-year-old who wants to play with his favorite power ranger colour, you imbecile?
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>>44949400

The lack of Treasure Cruise really hurt this deck. Ideas Unbound is an OK replacement though, but its not the same
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>>44949400
Just finished the sb
Wish it had a Sun&Moon but I'll live without one.
Not sure on counterflux, but I needed something to stop dpalm. dawnglow is my answer to angel's grace.
r8/h8, advice would be nice
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>>44949642

Needs Abrupt Decay atleast, or a Bound/Determine
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>>44949446
I want to dream
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>>44949587
Look, I get that since you dumped thousands of dollars on your deck, you want to play the best decks.
But the fact that the best decks all draw from the same 1/5th of the cards available is not a good thing (for the health of the game. I guess it is pretty good if you're trying to keep costs down).
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>>44949664
reasoning for both of those? I've seen em in sideboards often but I figured gutteral and assault fill their niche
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>>44949723
>thinking that the blue decks in Legacy all play the same blue cards
and I see you've conceded your argument
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>>44949738

There are times you need to use the Bound part of Bound/Determined, although its rare. Like sacrificing a fat dork to return cantrips to continue comboing off.

Abrupt Decay is your catch all vs problematic enchantments/creatures/artifacts
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>2 mana, useful early game
>hard counter, useful late game
>no limit on what types of spells it can counter
>no dumb drawbacks that force you to build your deck a certain way
>balanced by the double blue cost

>yfw reprinting pic related will save blue control in Modern and police broken linear decks like blue is supposed to
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>>44949755
If you don't want to debate it, that's fine. Have a fun night buddy.
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>>44949792
>implying we need more counterspells
We need less aggro because control loses to aggro.
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>>44949814
I would rather add to the pool than take away.
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>>44949755
He's exaggerating, but is there a blue deck that doesn't run Ponder, Brainstorm, and Force of Will?
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>>44949792
UU is simply too powerful, UUU counter target spell would be the perfect balance
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are mono-colored decks playable in Modern?
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>>44949845
That wasn't even funny.
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>>44949801
You're an idiot and don't warrant me spending my time on you.

The card selection isn't limited to 1/5th of the total card pool when you play blue, because you don't play mono-blue you fucking moron. There is a blue card for just about every occasion and so there's little reason not to splash blue for at least Brainstorm and often but not always Force/Ponder, but beyond that decks containing blue diverge wildly.
When you have painless duals, why the fuck wouldn't you take the free card selection and anti-memecombo blowout?

Suffice it to say, your post was a non-argument and just flat-out wrong, and I leave you with the knowledge that MaRo is the best you deserve.
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>>44949814
Control will lose even harder to aggro without Counterspell.

>>44949845
>this is what WotC actually believes
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>>44949857

Mono U tron, Stompy, Soul Sisters, Skred

Don't expect to win majors though
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>>44949857

I would say Merfolks is the best mono colored deck, but in general youre only gimping yourself
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>>44949845
This gives me a thought. Why not make Counterspell with additional cost that isn't a mana? It could be something like discard a card, lose X life, where X is the CMC of target spell, etc.
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>>44949957
Nobody would play it because it wouldn't be Counterspell
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>>44949843
Brainstorm is the absolute nuts so I would be surprised to see any blue deck that runs it (I mean, why the hell would you pass it up? Some decks are all-in on their meme or don't use fetches, so 40% of the field decides not to use it, but I can't imagine any of those 40% is blue because then why on earth wouldn't you Brainstorm?)

Plenty that don't run Force, because Force is kind of a garbage spell if you're not using it to avoid flat-out losing the game. Storm and other fast combo decks don't really need it (unless they absolutely need it to protect their combo and don't have any of the myriad other, better options available).

Shardless is like, 10% of the metagame and doesn't bother with Ponder or any other cantrip but Brainstorm
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>>44949523
You haven't met anyone that knows what they're talking about then
It probably is the best deck in legacy, but its way more like 52% vs the field, and even then only if you're piloting it well and have the right build for your meta. It actually does have bad matchups, burn and jund are a pain and 12post is brutal, and Shardless is pretty good while still having game against the rest of the top decks.
Seriously, if everyone is playing Miracles the guy that brings 12post is going to have a 90% winrate.
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>>44949957
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>>44949957

You mean Deprive aka mana screw yourself?
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>>44949792
But it makes all the other counterspells shit. They could make a downside that is often negligible, or a cancel with an upside (exile instead of graveyard doesnt count wotc)
Idk, make 3 mana hardcounter on a 'choose one:' spell.
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>>44949957
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God damn, I am going to have to spent some cash on Fetch Lands and Dual type lands if I want to run a good Naya Zoo, aren't I?
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>>44949957
They try, but the problem is that Counterspell is actually pretty balanced, so adding any significant downside makes it almost unplayable outside of the low powered standard format it was designed for, and any insignificant downside wouldn't actually be any worse of a card.
And they can't print a decent counterspell, think of how the 14 year olds that fund the game buy spending their allowance on packs would cry.
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>>44950095
That's the easy part. Naya Zoo runs 4 Wooded Foothills and 4 Windswept Heath. 4 Arid Mesa bites, but there is one bigger thing to worry about.
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>>44950095
>not already having your fetches
ZEN fetches I get but Khans? C'mon mate.
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>>44950095
Yeah. The ability to reliably get your colors and turn Nacatl on is a good thing.
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>>44950060
No it wouldn't, Remand is different enough to still see play, it could only replace Mana Leak.
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>>44950030
There's a miracles player in my area who swears that 12post is a bye
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>>44950110

>implying 14 year olds wouldn't enjoy playing counterspell and grinning as they counter spells
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>>44950060
Dromar's Charm, you mean?

Side-note: Circular Logic makes me want to play UG Madness in modern and it makes me sad someone has probably tried and failed already with it
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>>44950185
Every group has that one kid that builds 36counters.deck and he does enjoy it
Everyone else can't figure out how to play around counterspells and decides that they're overpowered
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>>44950148
he probably said that so you didn't build it against him
it's like 90-10 in 12-post's favor
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>>44950185
I watched some middle schoolers play Yugioh once. Without having a firm grasp of the mechanics, it looked like they were playing fucking vintage with all the shit they were pulling off and hard counters definitely seemed to be a part of the action. I think the kiddies can cope.
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>>44950209
madness in modern would just get rekt by eldrazi, not worth trying
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>>44950185
N-No! They like turning creatures sideways! Ban all spells! Rhinos for days!
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another 5-0 with janky mardu

feels good
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>>44950229
That's what I figure too but he claims people who are bad at magic think its bad for miracles

he does run blood moon in his sb though

He's also the kind of cunt who thinks he's the only person in the world who is good at magic and if someone disagrees with him, you're shit at the game.
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>>44949995
>why on earth wouldn't you Brainstorm?
Because if you're playing MUC then fetches are essentially useless outside of their interaction with Brainstorm, and Brainstorm without fetches is pretty much just a Peer Through Mists, making Ponder and Preordain much better options.
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>>44950061
this card sees play. It would be dead if counterspell existed.
In standard, hardcounters are 3 mana.
they could make a 2 mana counter but it has to have a downside. Anything else is blatant powercreep.
XUU or X1U
counter unless they pay 2+X mana

I like that Dromars charm tho
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>>44949991
deprive sees fringe play
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>>44950265
Ah yes, the kind of guy who plays Miracles in a way that makes other play decks that shit on Miracles

A classic
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>>44950225
>Every group has that one kid that builds 36counters.deck and he does enjoy it

>mfw this was me
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>>44950225

It's not like Boseiju, Cavern of Souls, Thrun, etc. don't exist either.
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>>44949857
mono red burn wins pretty well, even beats the tier 1 naya burn deck
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>>44950307
Why would you play the card you proposed over Logic Knot, Syncopate or Condescend? Or hell, even Mana Leak?
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>>44949957
UU
Counter Target Spell

That aspect of the spell must remain inviolate. No fucking Kicker, no conditional bullshit. The additional costs to playing the spell can't actually cost you a card so no discard clause. You can pay life, but how much life? It certainly cannot scale to the CMC of the spell, otherwise countering Karn means you just took fucking 7 to the face and you probably had to crack-fetch to do that so you're at 10. 2 life? 3 life? 3 life essentially says, "kill me faster burn".

The real issue here is why Counterspell is considered too strong. The upside is strong yes, it gets anything. But you're also going to have to hold it up, it is fairly dead if you're losing. It's not the card in a vacuum either, you have to consider what decks can do with an unconditional T2 play. T1 Bolt or Thoughtseize or Path, T2 Counterspell, T3 whatever, T4 and beyond Snapcaster and stabilize.

I think that's the issue there, the point past T4. Because Mana Leak can do the exact same damn thing and nobody wants to play it but it becomes hot garbage when the Burn deck starts topdecking and you are on the cusp of losing. The opportunity to lock an opponent out both in the early game and late game is just too strong when combined with solid plays like Bolt or Path.. What if Wizards knows that they don't want Merfolk having the spell so that a T4 Bolt straight up deep fries a fish.

But what the fuck do I know. I'm just some moron on 4chan. I think worrying about metagame balance is a moot point when I have nobody to fucking play Modern with because a deck costs more than their fucking rent.
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>>44950231
its like playing storm on titan but without keeping track of mana and focusing more on proper sequencing
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>>44950426
Because it's a worse mana leak that scales into lategame, so it's arguably a better manaleak.
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1UU
choose one:
-counter target spell
-scry 2 draw 1
-target creature becomes a 1/1 frog and loses all abilitites until end of turn
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>>44950381
Thats his point. Counterspells are only OP when you dont know how to play around them. Same as removal.
Casual players get really mad at those "unfair" cards and stop playing this "bullshit game". Thats why blue has a bad reputation and wizards hate it.
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>>44950449
Losing 7 life to hard counter against tron seems fine to be honest. counter burn spells and taking 1 damage from bolts ands lava spikes or simply two from boros charm and atarka commands wouldn't be too bad either. obviously you would side them out g2.
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>>44950291
Brainstorm without fetches is pretty much the worst, yes, but that requires mono-color and MUC doesn't even sound like a thing. Is it a thing?
Fish never played Brainstorm but I don't think people play it anymore, and High Tide needs Brainstorm despite no fetches
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>>44950516

>target creature becomes a 1/1 frog and loses all abilitites until end of turn

but it only answers turn 3 Karn when on the play
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>>44950539

Mono-blue control is a thing in modern, anon, it just runs Tron
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>>44950539
>High Tide needs Brainstorm despite no fetches
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>>44950613
Do they still play fetches with monoU after DTT ban?

I haven't run into High Tide at my LGS in months, but fetching for basic islands seems like opening yourself to RUG shitting all over your manabase
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>>44949283
Im thinking of building Lantern Control. Is this a good or bad idea?
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>>44950111

Haha. I want to play Magic, not get a second job so I can look at my awesome deck while wishing I had time to play Magic.

>>44950112

I just started playing again in November.

>>44950122

That's what I figure.
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>>44950930
There are faster ways to prison a player out of the game. Living End can leave a player at no lands, R/G Tron Karns lands and kills with Wurmcoils, Mono-U Tron Mindslaver locks or Spell Burst locks them, or protects a Platinum Angel, 4-color Gifts runs the Loam/Quarter combo or just simply Gifts for Iona or Elesh Norn.

Seriously, there's better shit to be playing than Lantern especially if your goal is to make sure at the end you're the only person playing Magic.
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>>44950449
>>44949957
>counterspell is too powerful in a format where the best blue deck is tier 3 and the average game lasts 4 turns

end yourselves
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>>44951060
Considering that Lantern can make fighting you pointless turn 3, I would disagree
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>>44950655
High tide plays 8 fetchlands because while in most cases thinning your deck has a negligible effect, when you're casting time spiral multiple times, it decreases your fizzle rate.
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reserve list article is down
http://magic.wizards.com/go/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy

eternal masters and revival of legacy incoming

who /hype/ here?

google wizards reserve list, it's real
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>eldrazi cucks thinking they can beat the GR boss t to the r to the o to the n
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>>44951228

>tfw I still have 4 Glimpse of Natures, 4 Gaea's Cradles and 4 Summoner's Pacts

I mean I still fold to Miracles but whatever. I for one am excited to play Elves again
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>>44951228
It might just be Wizards reworking their website. A lot of their older webpages are down as well.
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>>44951228
Servers down. Seriously, why perpetuate more ignorance in a game full of mindblowing amounts of ignorance.
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>>44951288
>implying Tron won't get banned
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>>44950449

UU
Counter target spell.

>That spell's controller may draw _ cards
>That spell's controller may untap _ lands
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I need your help.

Serum Visions: Some say I don't need it because it's a midrange deck and I would rather play more threats. Some say it's a good enough cantrip that's good early, mid and late game.

Lightning Angel: I'm not running walls or anything else with too much of a ETB effect for Resto. I can Resto the Snapcaster but that requires me to have 5+ mana. Probably not very relevant most of the time.

Brimaz, King of Oreskos: It's a good enough beater for 3 cmc? I don't want to run 4 Geists cause drawing 2 is not that good.
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>>44951884
I would replace it with walls and restos.
2x lightning angel
3x wall
3x resto
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>>44951288
w2c hymn to tourach shirt?
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>>44950231
I remember when MST negated and when OPTs and nomi special summons were quick effects. Good times.
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>>44949463
Did somebody say tier 3 meme deck?
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>>44952204

Fuck you you piece of shit now I want to eat some oreos and everything is fucking closed fuck you fuck you fuck you
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>>44952409
looks fun i'll buy into that right now
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>>44952204
replace what?
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>>44952409
>Soul Reap
Somebody went deep brewing this.
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>>44949523
I don't think it's possible to beat 12post.
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>>44951884
Play resto, even without etb abuse it still saves a guy and lays down a huge evasive body, plus less mana intensive than lightning angel.
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>>44952776
You could play d&t or delver. Or sneak and show. Or ANT. Or aluren. Or imperial painter. Or enchantress. Or lands.
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>>44952855
I meant with Miracles, as really should've been implied. Your boardwipe is literally useless against Eye of Ugin.
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>>44952887
Entreat and hope they don't draw lands. glhf.
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>>44953038
They run Top and fetchlands, and I need to hit a good number of lands before I can Entreat for any kind of fast clock. Even then his threats aren't just your average threats.
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>>44952409
this would be way better splashed red for bolts, guide, and mogis maybe
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>>44952531
the 4 visions and 2 lightning, but on second thought i don't like lightning angel at all.
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>>44949682
I bought four over the weekend to fuck around in Legacy, I'm right there with you.
>>
>play magic
>only enjoy 1/100 games
>most people who play are fucking faggots
>that 1/100 game keeps me playing where its enjoyable
>have too many cards every time I start to sell them I realize I might as well keep one deck

I need addiction counseling. I hate playing this bullshit.
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>>44950253
Looks interesting. Is it burn or aggro? List?
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Is it ok If I have fun beating tier 1 deck 10% of the time with shitty brews? Am I fucked up?
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>>44951852
>That spell's controller may untap _ lands
that would be cool, might even help high tide be a real deck in legacy
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>>44953168
Staggershock also looks like it would be really good.
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>>44953513
have you tried not being such a faggot?
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>>44953573
Yes, but in a good way.
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>>44953840
sucking dicks is just too much fun
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Just pulled this from a pack.

What do with him
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>>44954350
sell him and buy fetches. or play jeskai
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Is there any good removal outside of black other than path?
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>>44950379
Everyone who eventually became good I think played a hard permission deck at some point as they learned.
>this was mfw
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>>44954719
I think you're right. mine warped how my casual buddies played back in 2003

4x counterspell
4x moments peace
4x mirari's wake
4x mirari
3x cunning wish (so i could wish for a wish and loop spells removed from game with.....)
4x withered wretch

They hated me, and then they started to adapt, and they started to win. Then storm became a thing, and they hated me again
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>>44954719
I played squirrel prison.

Nnnnff locking everything down with my squirrel army
>>
Modern: the format where my old standard decks would be considered "broken"
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>>44955457
Has anyone tested CawBlade in modern?
Could be interesting.
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>>44955462
It would need Jace and Stoneforge unbanned. Splinter twin was also a standard deck. With preordain in it. Stoneforge mystic was also pretty good in the naya decks.
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>>44955462
It only worked with JTMS brainstorming the birds back into the deck for super value, and preordain really fucking helped
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>>44953672
Solidarity is a solid deck! It just needs frantic search to be unbanned
>>
How many lands do you run?

I always feel flooded with more than 22 and can go down 1 or 2 most times. I've seen people run 24+ lands and that seems excessive.
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>>44955909
59
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>>44949857
8rack (no bridges or pack rats, 4 Smallpox mb) destroys pretty much any pure combo or 1 dude + stuff deck (used to beat Twin pretty hard, now still does work against Infect), try it out if your meta consists of excessive amounts of those. Board in Bridges against midrange and Abzan company, Disfigure against Infect, extraction against one-card combos and Syphon Life against burn.
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>>44951835
>Tron gets b&
>Burn, Affinity, Infect and Jund rule
>Suddenly Soul Sisters is the meta-hate deck.

Best timeline.
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>>44955462
I did, it's not half as good without Preordain and against a better "aggro" deck than Valakut.
There are 4 better aggro decks than Valakut in Modern.
The card that breaks Stonewaifu is not Jace or even Batterskull. It's Jitte.
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>>44950379
Fuck that kid
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>>44954719
>>44950379

I'm more anime than both of you, every time one of my opponents played a spell I closed my eyes, chuckled, adjusted my glasses and then played one of my many counterspells
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>>44955909
1 Forest and 20 mana dorks
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>>44956357
Somebody post that manga with the girl's dying mother who mercilessly beats her over and over with a control deck.
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>>44956574
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>>44949682

>living slide
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>>44956357
>there will never be a Yu-Gi-Oh like MtG anime
>you will never see the protagonist using his WR playing the spell that will win him the game against a mono-U opponent who will win next turn
>the guy will never counter this spell
>you will never see the rest of his friend being shocked with succesive zoom on their face
>the protagonist will never use the guttural response he top decked because he believed in the heart of the cards to counter the counter and win
Life is suffering
>>
>>44956730

More like the mono u player started playing with some red aggro deck but along the way he stopped because aggro sucks and changed to control, but the MC's determination, heart and will touched him and reminded him how he started and how much he enjoyed the game then, so he concedes

So a final take would be the mono u player hand that was full of counters
>>
Been running this guy as a curvetopper in Abzan
If he hits the field he generates so much value
>>
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>>44956806
Forgot picture
>>
>>44956814
>Black titan makes tokens
>White titan brings creatures back from the graveyard
Shouldn't this be reversed?
>>
>>44956841
No, White can get back small things from the graveyard and every colour has access to making tokens
>>
>>44949428
the version with noyan dar
>>
>>44956841

Not really. 2/2 Zambies are a pretty common black token and white is second to black in getting shit back from the graveyard so it's hardly out of pie.
>>
>>44956841
>>44956864
>>44956875
I know it would be to good for standard, and unplayable in modern but I would love to see enemy and allied colored titans.
>>
>>44956894
there's always a chance we go back to Ravnica and each guild could have a titan. Actually, it's basically inevitable they'll go back as they left the Teysa story kind of open ended and Jace is the binding legal power of the plane.
>>
>>44956935

Why is he in Zendikar then
>>
>>44954708
i guess you mean unconditioned removal, but bolt is still the best removal and roast is pretty good too, blue and green get no removal, i guess all the suitable colours are covered
>>
>>44956730
>mono green attacking the white player for the finishing blow with a shitty wurm
>dust all around the white player
>when the dust scatters the white player is still standing, angel's grace activated in front of him
i would really love that
>>
>>44956947
shit was going down with the Eldrazi and Gideon came to him for help
>>
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I need halp, what would make for a good side board?
>>
>>44952463
Triggered fatty.
>>
Possibly offtopic: What sleeves are you guys using? I'm considering investing in some tight fits and good sleeves. I've heard good stuff about KMC, but which product is the real deal? Are there other good competitors to KMC?
>>
>>44957281
It is widely agreed KMC Hyper MATs and Dragon Shield Ultras are the best sleeves
>>
>>44957327
Dragon shields are poo and end up sticking together. Stick with KMC's.
>>
>>44957338
The matte ones apparently don't have that problem
>>
>>44950453
LOL what the fuck
>>
>>44950930
Building Lantern Control was the best idea I had in all my years playing this game.

Seriously, the thing is fun as hell.
>>
>>44957526
Are you a sadist?
>>
>>44953840
He already wrote that he has, retard, he just keeps not selling one deck and relapses
>>
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>>
The anatomy on the speculators is ridic
His torso is 90 degrees rotated to his lower body
>>
>>44958389
who?
>>
>>44954350
Sell him and buy into a better game.
Star Wars Monopoly maybe.
>>
>>44956748
What's the most complex sligh deck ever?
>>
When do spoilers for SOI start
>>
March 4th >>44958532
>>
>>44958576
They expect us to wait over a month? Judges pls we got your back, spoils again
>>
>>44957593
Maybe. I enjoy the salt.
Have you tried the deck?
Each game is like a different puzzle.

I also reccomend playing it with actual cards. Lantern Control Online is unbearable.
>>
>>44958635
>Maybe. I enjoy the salt.
I don't get mad I just moan and cry like a petulant child whose favorite toy was taken away as I watch any viable threat to their deck get stripped away. The deck is for sadists who enjoy watching their opponents slowly lose hope in one of the grindiest matchups you can imagine.

>Have you tried the deck?
I read that as >have you tried the dick
Yes I have felt the shaft of lantern control and I did not enjoy it. No I have not played it myself.

Fuck lantern.
>>
Has anyone ever bought one of those 1000 cards for 15 bucks packs off ebay? My friend gave me 2000 or so pre-2003 cards, mostly commons, some uncommons and I don't know if those packs are flooded with older stuff or if they have a nice balance of all sets. Also, are they worth it?
>>
>>44950449
Random thought
>Avenger's Denial UU
>Instant
>You can't cast Avenger's Denial during your opponent's first, second or third turns of the game.
>counter target spell.
>>
>>44958719
Quantity < quality
>>
>>44958601
I just pulled a date out of my ass. Its even later than that. The set comes out in April.
>>
>>44958719
95% of the time those lots of 1000 cards are some neckbeard's old unplayable commons and uncommons from standards gone by.
>>
>>44958789
>>
>>44958797

I really just want to get a bunch of Mirrodin/Kamigawa/Ravnica cards
>>
Why does Wizards hate any kind of Ux control in every single format? Fuck

Just cause you guys screwed up standard with Caw doesn't mean I have to get fucked for the next 5 years
>>
>>44958722
why do faggots always add a name to their shitty made up cards. there is no reason for it
>>
>>44958900
They are being so absurdly careful with control in modern

Surely they will realize someday that giving blue decks ancestral vision doesn't in any way make them able to combat fucking tron and affinity and burn.

I bet they could unban both SFM and ancestral vision and control would still suck dick
>>
>>44958900
L e g a c y
>>
>>44957593
Not him, But yes, I am. I am also convinced that Lantern Control is one of the best decks in the format once you know how to pilot it. Everytime I have seen it lose a game it never felt as if it was because the Lantern deck had a bad matchup but because the pilot was inexperienced and made the wrong choices.
>>
Revamped stompy? Thoughts?
4x Dryad Militant
4x Uktabi Drake
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Groundbreaker
4x Boggart Ram Gang

4x Coco
4x Vines
4x Rancor
4x Aspect
2x Ranger's Guile
2x Dismember

20x Forest
>>
>>44958707
Honestly the decks pathetically easy to beat. It has unwinnable matchups against Burn , Infect, Storm etc
>>
>>44959147
Even if this performed well, it's just another uninteractive deck to add to the pile.
>>
>>44959205
>Infect
Nah nigga, when you Iok their only dude t1 or kill it with decay or spellbomb t2 they have a hard time dealing with a bridge, mill rocks and/or aether grid after that. Burn is too homogenous to effectively control if you take 10-14 from their opening 7
>>
How can Vines of Vastwood make Abrupt Decay be countered on resolution when Abrupt Decay can't be countered?
>>
>>44959324
>by spells or abilities
Still gets countered because of the rules.
>>
>>44959324
It's countered by the rules, not by a spell.
>>
>>44959277
>2x Dismember

;)
>>
>>44959384
Yeah and I'm sure Affinity is an interactive deck. Just look at the 4 copies of Thoughtseize in the board!
>>
>>44958836
It's always been that way, spoilers begin three weeks before the set is released, with some occasional teasers before that.
We've already seen Willbreaker Demon
>>
>>44959023
The problem with control in Modern is that there's no incentive to make the game go long, and no efficient universal answers. Making the game go long then going over the top isn't good when other decks make 7 drops on turn 3, or are able to consistently kill you before you can cast av wrath
>>
>>44956730
There was that one wizards produced manga with the school council president playing UW miracles.
>>
>>44959473
Allow me to fix your post.

The problems with control in Modern are
>1)
A lack of a game finishing creature or spell that can close out a game in any reasonable time frame and can't be somehow removed, not to mention you also have the problem of that card being dead in your hand until you can play it, meaning you're essentially a card down on the guy who just jammed burn spells into a deck
>2)
Tron does lategame better than any non-Tron deck because it gets there faster.
>3)
A complete lack of good answers. Counterspell my fucking god just reprint it. Right now in Modern the threats are so much better than the answers that the best answer to a threat is to just play your own threats faster than your opponent. Blue decks are so hungry for hard countermagic at low cmcs that any deck claiming to be control runs 3-4 copies of Spell Snare.
>4)
There's no way to accrue advantages over the course of the game that get you into a winning position. Just look at Miracles in Legacy. Every time Counterbalance snipes a card, you've basically just got a free card out of your opponent's hand. That's insane value. Modern has no way of generating card advantage like that. Sphinx's Revelation is just too slow.
>>
>>44959585
Link?
>>
I think reprinting good LD would go a long way towards fixing the control game. Wasteland, etc. Tron is the problem. Mana Leak is a hard counter to every deck in the format except tron.
>>
>>44959631
A JTMS unban would give control decks card advantage and inevitability
>>
>>44959683
I actually saw it on /tg/. Pretty sure I don't have it on this machine but I'll go archive delving for it.
>>
>>44959723
The corner that wizards has backed themselves into is that spell lands are really good in Modern. Tron lands are ramp spells that you aren't allowed to interact with because lands are sacred and cannot be destroyed.
>>
>>44958900
Control is playable in every eternal format (legacy, vintage, pauper) only in new formats it isn't, because of their "good interaction is antifun" policy in the recent years.
>>
>>44959797
That's why wasteland is necessary. It won't hurt basics. It will always be an equal trade, unless the land targeted did more than add one mana, in which case it was a spell land.
>>
Anyone playing ascendancy combo know how you can deal with an eidolon from your opponent turn 2?
>>
>>44959825
I think it might have something to do with the "ban every good cantrip" design.
You can't dig for answers or have a consistent deck, which really cripples a deck where you need to run the right answer for the right situation
>>
>>44959909
Lightning bolt
>>
>>44959909
run some interaction
>>
>>44959915
Yeah that's also a reason, they basically print one or more op creatures/burn etc. in every set and let it stay, but as soon as good blue spell for control comes along it gets banned immediately, not to mention all those blue cards that they banned preemptively.
>>
>>44959934
But the win condition for the deck involves jerking off into a corner for ten minutes
>>
>>44956652
I'd forgotten about this comic, seems it's still being made, yay
>>
>>44959970
You want to jerk off as often as possible right?

Run some cards that further the consistency of the deck by allowing you to deal with common answers to your jerking off.
>>
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I'm really enjoying this Pauper deck:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/364973#online

How high is the chance that a fun deck like this will ever be viable in Modern?
>>
>>44960489
put on a trip so i can filter you
>>
>>44959909
bolt, path, spell snare, vampiric link

>>44959585
is that the one where the protag was Jund Guy?
>>
>>44960489
I mean grixis can run teachings.

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-grixis-control-23375#online
>>
What do people think about these in Naya Zoo?
>>
>>44961375
REKToner is a midrange card

coco is a combo card

zoo is an aggro deck
>>
>>44961424
You've obviously never CoCo'd into 2 reckoners before blocks and BFTO your opponent before
>>
>>44961452
>You've obviously never visited Magical Christmas Land and won because luck was bullshit before.
You may as well have just skipped straight to "I'm a faggot".

Faggot.
>>
>>44952409
I know it's probably for budget reasons but if you're playing bump in the night you should atleast have some blood crypts.
>>
>>44961486
Ah. So you were the one who was BTFO.
>>
>>44949283
I'm buying into R/G tron now?
Is Cardhoarder a safe website and how do I obtain the cards once ordered?
>>
Interactive decks are fun.

Why does wizards think otherwise? I think most players would respond positively towards interactive decks that prevent every game from being as linear as modern currently is.
>>
>>44961595
interaction is toxic
>>
>>44961595
The worst thing to happen to modern is wizards
>>
Why people say infect is not interactive? Yeah, the plan is get to 10 poison, but infect players have to interact with removal.
>>
>>44961595
Non interactive decks are plenty fun too.
>>
>>44961656
Burn player found
>>
I don't even necessarily want control decks, though that would be the easiest way to force interaction back into modern.

I just want a non linear deck that has good matchups against linear decks.
>>
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MEMES
>>
>>44961714
xd
>>
>>44961676
Nah. In modern I generally play grishoal, jund and ur delver. All interact differently and they're all fun in their own ways.
>>
>>44961714
Why would you run chained to the rocks in a land destruction deck?

Other than that, I like the synergy between dank dwellers and boom // bust.
>>
>>44950453
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpjhmKY8Vew
>>
>>44954019
no legacy needs to be bleeding out from it's neck and insisting that it's fine
>>
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>>44961778
>not chaining your own dank dwellers then booming
they could just be dismembers if you're gonna target the other guy's things i guess.
>>
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>>44962170
Here, I'll let you read the card, then you can try again
>>
http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/150586

Rate this garbage. Got 1st with it last night at fnm.
>>
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>>44962219
i guess they can just be dismembers xD
>>
>>44962230
I feel like you could make the deck 100% more effective by dropping the hedrons, the claw, etc.

That being said, Relic of Progenitus would be better than Scrabbling Claws.
>>
>>44962230
You're telling me that you won with a hedron deck with only two cards that exile your cards from your gy?

I call bullshit, unless your LGS has some really shitty players.
>>
>>44962315
I agree about the hedrons, but the challenge I made was to make it happen and I got it off twice. Drew at least three all four games I tried to use the combo so I don't feel too bad about it being in. As for claws over relic, I can't alway reliably exile all graveyards if I have two hedrons in there. Claws lets me have an exile outlet and a cantrip that only exiles the one Hedron I need gone.
>>
>>44962230

I don't even know how you survive until the extra turns start happening
>>
>thraben doomsayer
>intruder alarm
would this be decent in a bant control shell?
a potential line of play could be:
>t1 dork
>t2 doomsayer
>t3 alarm, infinite tokens+mana
beck draws your deck, blasting station and cathartic adept kill everything. otherwise hold down the fort with remands and cryptic+et wit?
>>
>>44962371
Hedron is only a win con game one. Other conditions game one include baby jace, thassa, and part the waterveil beats. Jace was the worst win con choice of those. Game two(never had a game three) had me sb all hedrons, guild pact jace, and claws for remands, boomerang, gigadrowse, and clique/shackles. Shit was great.
>>
I want to run Notion Thief with shit like Baby Jace and that counterspell that draws both players a card.
>>
>>44962376
Notion Thief doesn't pass the bolt test.

>>44962376
You could run codex shredder as a way to both recurr time walks, and accelerate your plan.
>>
>>44962621
Goblin Guide doesn't pass the Bolt test either. Shut up.
>>
>>44962641
Goblin Guide generates value on its own by attacking.

If you're running a combo piece, it should pass the bolt test. This is why Exarch is superior to Pestermite.
>>
>>44952409
>no loam
>no pox
You can do better.
>>
>>44962676

Notion thief generates value in response to a cantrip or other draw effect
>>
>>44961656
Honestly non interactive decks are only fun to play against interactive decks, playing around counterspells, removal etc. is fun but just 2 people goldfishing really isn't.
>>
>>44962676
>Combo piece
Who said anything about combos? Baby Jace is already considered a control card. The counterspell is more questionable, but the idea of turning your opponent's draws into your draws is a huge deal. Ever seen what Notion Thief does to a Brainstorm? The card can pay off big time and is worth protecting. Downsides become upsides.
>>
>>44954719
>Everyone who eventually became good I think played a hard permission deck at some point as they learned.

I wonder if this is true, I don't necessarily consider myself good (although I'm the best out of my playgroup) and one of the first decks I made was counterspells/draw/boomerang with Isochron Scepter
>>
>>44959970
Wear/tear in the sb stops eidolon
Swansongs in the sb stop eidolon
I run assault/battery in the sb to also stop eidolon
Abrupt Decay works as well.
>>
>>44962789
Brainstorm isn't modern legal anon.

You can try it, but ultimately you're paying 4 mana for a card that occasionally cantrips.

Gifts Ungiven is barely playable at 4 mana in this format, and gifts is almost unquestionably better than thief. 4 mana is a lot for modern. Not so much for vintage, which is why notion thief will actually see play in legacy/vintage.
>>
>>44962789
>baby jace
>not referring to Jace Beleren

I fucking hate new players.
>>
>>44962929
Well that Jace isn't relevant in any format so it makes sense.
>>
>>44962230
As a fellow Turns player I approve of the Hedron victory. Totally unnecessary but also totally hilarious, well meme'd friend

>22 islands
>not replacing AT LEAST one island with a based storage land
I run 18 islands 4 calciforms and the storage is relevant every game
>>
>>44962909
I wish Gifts ungiven was more viable in modern. It's fun in older formats when you watch the opponent squirm at what to ditch from Life from the Loam/Waste land/Think Twice/Raven's Crime
>>
>>44962909
There's cantripping, and then there's stealing your opponent's cantrips. It's a whole new world of value.
>>
Here's a thought: Print True Name Nemesis in the next standard set.

Control finally gets its inevitability, it completely screws Tron over (O-Stone is their only answer), and everybody is happy.
>>
>>44961714
Are you me? I made a deck similar to this a while back during the era of Treasure Cruise that used the same creature base for one sided pyroclasms
>>
>>44963012
Just so you know senpai, Gifts forces your opponent to choose 2 cards, but that doesn't mean you have to pull 4 from your library.
>>
>>44963076
Ugin exists too
>>
>>44962968
Tiny leaders

:^)
>>
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Can they unban the cantrips already? As a Delver player I'm getting tired of getting cucked so much.

Even green has better library manipulation nowadays, it's just a bad joke at this point.
>>
>>44962968
He can be used. Killable but awesome Dictate of Kruphix #5
>>
>>44963154
Preordain would be okay, but Ponder is too busted
>>
>>44963173
Dictate of Kruphix that acts as a potential wincon.
>>
>>44963076
>"Cast True Name?"
>"Resolves.
>"Pass turn."
>"In your end step I'll crack Expedition Map and get a tower, untap, draw, play it, cast Ugin, and -3."
>"Concede."

There's how it'll go. True Name would be awful in Modern.
>>
>>44963209

>Cast true name
>How can you with only 2 lands familia?
>>
>>44963200
Same as Jace VP, sometimes he'll get killed, but when he dooesn't he's a looter+snapcaster2.0+emblemwincon
>>
>>44962230
What the fuck kind of meta you're in when you can go better than 1-x with turns?
>>
>>44963209
>tapping out vs tron
>not saving 1 mana for spellpierce
>>
>>44950453
To be fair, the pend magician guy made the shittiest field I could think of, if you're gonna burn resources on a boss it at least needs to be megazord or Dora tier.
>>
>>44963199
>paying 1 mana to cycle a card is busted
>>
>>44963330
>he thinks pierce is good vs tron
That shit gets baited HARD with Sylvan scryings successfully about 90% of the time anyway.
>>
>>44963344
Sometimes it is
>>
>>44963100
I know, but I like using it to choose 4 when most/all the cards can be cast/retrieved from the grave which makes the opponent's decision of 2 to keep pretty redundant and keeps my options open
>>
>>44963344
1 mana to dig 3 deep and shuffle your library if you don't like it vs 1 mana to dig 2 deep and scry at best.
>>
>>44963076
>he thinks a 3drop is a sufficient clock vs tron
>>
>>44963154
it's not entirely Delver that's the problem. All the miracle cards stop them from coming back due to being able to stack all the miracles in the order you want too consistently
>>
>>44958532
Patience nigger, OGW literally just released yesterday
>>
>>44963122
Wow, that format died quickly, and nothing of value was lost
>>
>>44963408
Without the ability to hold off a Miracle for an arbitrary amount of time, cards like Terminus and Entreat are far less powerful than in Legacy.
>>
>>44963408
Oh please now that's just delusional, Ponder And Preordain do a terrible Job at that compared to Brainstorm and you wouldn't even have Top which makes the whole thing pointless anyway.
>>
>>44963330
T4 Tower means you're casting Ugin with 2 mana floating.
>>
>>44963358
I'm just saying blue has the most answers to the t3 karn maymay.
What they do after that? Beats me.
>he can't even counter trons curve topper!
>laughingelves.gif

>>44963329
Believe it or not it's a pretty strong deck at the moment imho. I've won against tron, UR and UW. I wanna test my luck against burn but I think it would need a t2 remand, t3 exhaust and a t4 cryptic in order to survive that matchup, but game 2+3 would have nice sb options (god forbid the burn player packs Gutteral)
>>
>>44963469
Grove: 1
1 set of Tron Lands: 7
Total: 8

Ugin's cost: 8

How are you getting 2 floating mana out of this equation? I guess you mean he played a tron land each turn, and tower on four is his second tower overall.

In which case sure, but that isn't implied with "t4 tower" at all.
>>
>>44963588
Well duh I meant Grove Grove Grove Tower you fucking idiot.
>>
>>44963630
>i only specialize in magical christmas land scenarios, so I'll call everyone else an idiot.

Go fuck yourself with an Urza's Tower.

Let's look at the problems with your response:

>tron deck has drawn god hand of 4 tron lands, and Ugin, because literally nothing they've done up until that point has been disrupted.

Most tron decks don't even maindeck ugin, and the ones that do have maybe one or 2.
>>
>>44963630
lolololol

anyways Turns has a favorable matchup vs Tron IMO. remand anything big, exhaust the turn after. Snaps to rinse/repeat, cryptic to nope anything. Gigdrowse and noncreature counters in the sb help out too, since you aren't worrying too much about the Wurmcoil racing.
>>
r8 my linear deck idea

4x Silence
4x Render Silent
4x Oriss, Samite Guardian
4x Meddling Mage

>>44963685
Turns is an underrated deck IMO. Though I prefer more gigadrowse in the main board, because it's such an excellent spell in mono blue.
>>
>>44963670
>Most tron decks don't even maindeck ugin, and the ones that do have maybe one or 2.

If you're talking about RG Tron, then you are very wrong. Most lists are maindecking two copies of Ugin.
>>
>>44963685
>An uninteractive deck has a good matchup against Tron
Gee who fucking knew.
>>
>>44963747
Turns is fairly interactive. Think of it like twin: it interacts to survive til 5 mana.
>>
>>44963788
Sounds about as interactive as Scapeshift.
>>
>>44963747
There's no interaction in time_mage.dec? Vs blue decks there is a lot.
Truly flavorful and fun soltaire deck.

I have a 1000$ treasure hunt deck on cockatrice that can t2 win, and otherwise combos off t3-5
Even a whiffed hunt can lead to an easy t4, provided they don't have spellskite (literally the only way to kill it is with mouth of ronom)
>>
Is ascendancy combo good right now? It looks like a fun deck as it seems to play a lot like eggs. Is it endanger of a ban though?
>>
>>44963938
>HURR LOOK AT ME I CAN SPIRIT GUIDE TREASURE HUNT LIGHTNING STORM XDDD

Fuck off.
>>
>>44963788
Hedron guy here. You 10/10 interact with your opponent in turns. Anything with targeted discard or counter magic(God can't save you if they have both) is a battle where you don't just tap out for time warp turn 5 and pray. You have to pay close attention to what they cast and what you have available.
>>
>>44963965
Maybe wish gets banned (I don't think they'd outright ban jeskass) but that would only mean you don't get dank sideboard memes.
DnT is going to be brutally great this meta, it stops combo so hard. Jund pls save us I promise I'l be more interactive
>>
>>44963974
No simians friendo, that would interupt the combo.
Gemstone caverns
>>
>>44963974
Also 1v1 me on cockatrice if you wanna tell me treasure hunt is meme shit. you'll probably bring spellskites too like a PUSSYFAGGOT
>>
>>44963448
>"Ponder and Preordain are Terrible cards"

-Alternate Universe MaRo
>>
>>44963448
When you have no fetchlands, Ponder makes Brainstorm look shit. Of course, Brainstorm being the powerful sorcery it is, it often finds the fetchland you need.
>>
>>44964284
>Brainstorm being the powerful sorcery it is

Brainstorm's an instant m8, unless I'm bad at detecting satire
>>
>>44964392
Brainstorm is best used as sorcery speed half the time because it digs/sets up for next turn. Though I say this as a Miracles player.
>>
>>44964410
Isn't setting up up for next turn in your opponent's end while presenting counter mana before that strictly better?
>>
>>44964410
>not brainstorming, passing the turn, then brainstorming on their turn for the instant-speed miracle
>>
>>44964410
I always use Brainstorm-esque instants like Anticipate and Telling Time on opponent's' end steps. I never played Miracles so I wouldn't understand your useage
>>
>>44961569

Order your cards from Cardhoarder, they'll ship them to you via either UPS or your ISP, whichever ends up being fastest.
>>
>>44964477
You've read Sensei's Divining Top, right?
>>
>>44964410
I don't see what you mean. You set up your next turn just as well if you brainstorm during their turn as if you brainstorm during your main phase.

Meanwhile, you get to hold up counter magic, you get to save brainstorm to hide cards from cabal therapy, you get to do all sorts of things.

What advantage do you get from casting brainstorm during your turn?
>>
>>44964518
Read Counterbalance and Terminus.
>>
>>44964527
What if they kill your senseis somehow and you dont draw another one
>>
>>44964615
>What if they kill your senseis somehow
That's a really really big somehow. And Kolaghan's Command is actually incredible at doing just this. There's so many reasons why that card shits on Miracles.
>>
>>44964580
>counterbalance
A triggered ability that you can respond to by casting brainstorm.

I still don't see why that'd mean you have to cast brainstorm during your turn.

>Terminus
A miracle card that you can use brainstorm to draw during their turn.

Still not seeing it sempai.
>>
>>44964683
Perhaps Legacy isn't for you.
>>
>>44964713
Why don't you explain in simple words then for those of us unenlightened why you might want to cast brainstorm during your turn when you have less information.

Is it just that they're tapped out?
>>
>>44964769
>>44964769

New thread
>>
>>44949343
Im new to MTG can someone explain to me why people want Twin back?

I get it was powerful cause once you got your combo off gg. But If everyone was playing it doesn't that kind of make the game boring?

Sounds like bait I know, but im curious as a newcomer.
Thread replies: 329
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