Pathfinder General /pfg/

Update pastebin with the waxmorphs Tbh

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Does a caster need to poo and pee elsewhere when they can just relieve themselves in their own clothes and underwear and then cast Prestidigitation to clean it up?

Thinking about a gestalt of Harbinger and Empiricist Investgator.

Would that just be Batman?

>>44933757
Yes. It's the PF version of Warblade+Factotum.

So /tg/, how did your last session go? Sorry for the seeming shit writing but here's my party (which was practically pbp lately)

>Party Kineticist was killed by party Rogue
>Party Rogue is evidently growing more insane
>Party Sorceror is still running a domestic violence shelter/doing abortions
>Party Monk bungled a murder investigation and let a thieves guild member clean up evidence at a crime scene
>Party Skald talked the cops out of charging party Monk with tampering with evidence/obstruction of justice

>>44933751
For pee? Purify Food and Drink and gives it to Fighter.

>>44933780
I feel like Warblade+Factotum is closer to zweihander sentinel than harbi desu

>>44933740
Hey there were 4 races that night, not just those. I'd be offended if I could remember the other 3 at all. SUPER offended.

>>44933795
Don't waste actions, the Fighter knows where he can find a drink and him being happy with its taste has no real benefit to anyone.

>>44933796
>>44933757
Why not use Vigilante Stalker instead of one or the other side? It fits really well.

>>44933786
It was okay
>dungeon crawlan
>kill a bunch of stuff
>suddenly tick swarm
>hugely templated tick swarm
>100-foot fear aura scares away only character that could fight it
>incorporeal character's player falls unconscious moments before encounter
>truenamer runs
>only character left tries to fight, discovers immunity to weapon damage
>manages to outrun swarm which can move 120 feet per round
>still dies because of swarm's cling ability that deals 20 damage plus 1d4 con damage per round
Interesting session.

>>44933786
HP 20 white dragon that I've failed to finish in one round stalks the party. Uses invisibility to sneak up, breath, then fly away 200 fts. Only a bit of healing and spell left. And cannot recharge them because lol interruption. Shame on us, because nobody added simple +1 longbow on the wargear shopping list.

>>44933786
My last session got canceled because I couldn't make it and I'm the DM. Thankfully, he had a sort of half-session/scene the day before where some setting info that's been burning a hole in my pocket finally got dropped.

On a side note, I've kept forgetting to take off my trip today and I'm wondering how the hell etiquette is supposed to work with that. Should I be using it only when posting officially? When discussing things like this? Do people even care? Should I run and hide now that you all know my name?

Does one use of the investigator's inspiration applies to all attack rolls (and damage rolls, provided he has an inspired weapon) he make in one round?

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>>44933751

At that point just wearing a diaper under the magical robes and cleaning it with prestidigtiation seems more practical aside from that immediately getting you shunned for magical realming.

...Although I'm pretty sure people relieving themselves in their normal clothes is considered magical realm too, but let's not confront the multitude of tentacles that subject can sprout at will.

You would still need something for the smell if you're doing it in your clothes.

>>44933786

Last week's session
>Boss fight
>Knight Chandler I'd worried was overtuned proceeds to miss every single strike against the boss (Admittedly I spent two turns not fighting for plot reasons)
>The rifle-using fighter blasts the boss apart with touch AC full attacks, taking down over 80% of his HP over the course of the battle

It might be because I'm focusing on strikes and avoiding full attacks but I'm fairly glad I don't outshine the non-PoW half of the party in damage.

>>44933786
Party of 7 level 2 characters took on 3 unarmored dagger-wielding goblins, then fought another 3 with a bard goblin, then oneshotted their boss in a third encounter. Followed by wrap-up because we only had about 1 and a half hour.

Don't know if I should chime in or not and let him know unusual group size requires encounter modification. It might also have been for level 1s, but we're 2 because an interrim module was run when he couldn't make it multiple times. If I say something it'll sound super condescending though and I like him.

Had a nice time cause I like their company and party chatter though.

>>44933947
Don't think so. 20+ Int required, basically. You shouldn't use it for that until you reduce the cost anyway.

Ok, is this how manyshot+rapid shot works?

Attack 1: at -2 atk roll
(Attak 1.5: if attack 1 hits; auto-hit)
Attack 2: at -2 atk roll, at atk 1's atk bonus
Attack 3~ at -2 atk roll.

And if the archer has haste applied to him, would he be able to make attack 2.5?

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Inappropriate songs to sing to Queen Abrogail Thrune the Second

>>44934236
Devil went down to Georgia.

>>44934236
I'm dealing with the devil (Sonny Williamson).

>>44934236
I've Got Friends In Low Places

>>44934236
Oh Girl You're the Devil

>>44934236
Any sexual song, especially if you can make sure that General Gorthoklek or Contessa Lrilatha are present, so they'll have to explain to Abby what exactly that song meant after you bail the fuck out.

>>44934236
Fat bottomed girls

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Working on a Homebrew PoW archetype for the Warder.

Its based around a martial artist so in-tune with body movements and calisthenics, that he can read the most minute body language of his foes and interpret their actions before they can even begin.

Because of this, its focused as a more unarmored build than an armored one.

Defensive Focus is modified in that, while he remains in a defensive focus, he can make an intuition roll using his intelligence to predict his enemy's actions. He knows if they'll cast a spell, ready an attack, or reposition themselves. Once he makes a successful intuition check, he gains a list of options on how to react to each opponent. He may make an immediate 5 ft step to automatically dodge an attack, gain a bonus to AC or saves equal to his INT, make a free AoO against an opponent BEFORE they themselves can declare an attack or redirect a ranged attack to a different target.

Clad in Steel and Steel Defense is removed and replaced with a different class features.

Skin like Steel now grants the Warder damage reduction using his INT modifier

Intuitive Dodge lets the Warder make a reflex roll to evade a killing blow.

Thoughts on this /pfg/?

>>44934456

Why include adding bonuses to AC or saves? It doesn't compare to the other options at all. Adding trap options isn't good.

That aside, how are you going to make it competitive with other unarmed builds? Specifically, any that is WIS reliant and can chain warsoul deadly fist into the build?

>>44934492
>Why include adding bonuses to AC or saves? It doesn't compare to the other options at all.
Because sometimes a warder can't make that immediate 5 ft step. especially if he's cornered or flanked.

>how are you going to make it competitive with other unarmed builds?
Because its not unarmed at all? He still has his weapons. He's just limited to light armor.

So I am participating in a high level PvP game because an old friend wanted to run one. This has forced an arms race between I and a room mate who both are playing in the game. We fear we may have gone too far. How far is too far?

>>44934526
If it's not fun anymore then it's too far.

>>44934534
I know we're having fun at the very least.

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WHY IS BLACK SERAPH EVIL ONLY

I WANT TO BE INTIMIDATE MAN
BUT I WANT TO BE GOOD ALIGNED

>>44934806
Use Unorthodox Method, then help puppies and orphanages.

How does a Guru Akasin's Blinding Ray work?
It says its a ray, but unlike most rays doens't specify whether or not its a ranged touch attack and doesn't specify a range.

>>44934806
Half of them don't have the evil descriptor, so you can use those.
Discordant Crusader Zealot can use it too.

>>44934864
Aren't all rays touch and short range?

>>44934885
Rays are "usually touch" and no the range isn't specified as part of the property of a ray. The rules page of ray only has one concrete rule and that is that its "like a ranged weapon".

As a PoW character can I ready the same maneuver twice?

>>44934933
No. Its somewhere in the book, but its very clear you cant.

>>44934943
Ok, thank you.

>>44934526
The only thing that is too far is destroying EVERY plane.
Destroying all but one is fine. No Yubelling.

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Why are there no good aligned succubi?
Not like, succubi that are good aligned, but good aligned angels/azata/whatever that seduce mortals?

>>44934954
Because almost all the good-aligned celestials generally sleep with mortals occasionally.

Succubi are an incarnation of rape, just like incubi are. Sex itself is pretty neutral, and rape is clear-cut evil. Good doesn't have a mirror of it because there isn't really one that exists.

>>44934954
Angels, Azata and "whatever" are far less interested in individual mortals than evil outsiders. They will protect individual mortals that are nearby, but otherwise they are all greater good fuckers and have no interest in making mortals feel better for the night in the same way they dont heal the sick, dont remove curses and generally dont use their powers instead choosing to go fight demons and shit.

>>44934954
"Seduction" implies something nefarious. Any and all kinds of angel just have great sex with mortals whenever they feel like it.

>>44934954
Because you seem to be forgetting WHY succubi seduce mortals. And its not for procreation

>>44934954
Because tumblr would immediately equate them with slutshaming somehow and begin to froth.
There's also not a lot you can do with them plotwise that doesn't go immediately to blushes, snickers, and awkward looks around the table.

I'd totally buy that they exist, though. I had an idea a while back about succubi that literally eat love instead of life energy, and one going full Shelyn and trying to matchmake as much as possible to ensure a steady food supply And eventually getting a happy ending with someone that produces it faster than they can eat it

Just imagine her, changing faces every few decades, living among mortals, crying at every wedding and nibbling on the edges of their happiness before retreating to an extraplanar hideaway full of wedding portraits.

>>44935006
>tumblr and by extension, the idiots at paizo caring about something.

Behold the fields, from which I grow mine fucks.
Gaze broadly upon it.
For they are barren.

>>44935005
Couldn't angels seduce humans instead? Like >>44934990 says, they're for the greater good -- Surely making someone follow the good path, even if it was a bumpy road getting there, would be the greater good.
>>44934994
Aren't Good aligned outsiders as nefarious as evil aligned? I.E., trying to establish dominance over the material plane?
>>44934984
This makes sense; but rape has a mirror in consensual, loving sex.

>>44935030
Unless you're trying to imply that consensual, loving sex is an act of cosmic good (which it really isn't ever depicted as), then I'm not sure what that has to do with it.

>>44935030
You seem to equate "good people" as if they make a difference in the grand scheme of the war between angels and devils.

They don't. Your soul, no matter how good or corrupt is not worth shit, compared to asserting dominance over an entire mortal plane.

>>44935041
>No angels who go out to sleep with virtuous people to have half-celestial kids who'll make differences in the world.

Anyone has info on the new Rogue archetype that has 6th level casting (Magus progression) using Wizard/Sorcerer spell list?

>>44933926
The informal rules are that you use the tripcode when posting new, relevant content or responding to someone directly. Falling to turn it off for other things has no repercussions besides labeling you as a tripfag.

>>44934205
Yeah.

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How would I go about doing a campaign where nearly all civilization was wiped out by ents, dryads, and other forest themed monsters?

>>44935220
I'd say just keep towns if any tiny and sparce, most creatures outside of town and that aren't Ents, treefolk, or the like either are given plant traits or the fungal template.

Start the campaign with the party on a caravan to a different town when they're attacked by a pack of timber wolves.

>>44935310
Thanks.

I was also thinking of taking stuff from Metro, Survarium, and Stalker.

Namely anomalies, mutants, and artifacts to help with stable magical items like belts and headbands becoming much more rarer.

>>44935058
Check the emberkin aasimar background.

>>44933751
It depends on if you have a panty shitting fetish. You do, don't you?

Hey /pfg/ -- what are the available Warlord archetypes/templates, and which of them stack?

>>44933678
Hey /pfg/
What do you do when you're having a hard time thinking of new characters? How do you get the creative juices flowing?

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>>44935413
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warlord/warlord-archetypes

The rest are linked in:

>http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444869-Dreamscarred-Press-Path-of-War-Expanded!-%28Thread-VII%29&p=19861604

>>44935349
There is also a mutant template in Bestiary 5 I believe.

>>44934806
You don't have to be evil to use stuff with the [evil] descriptor.
Overuse may shift your alignment though.

>I WANT TO BE INTIMIDATE MAN BUT I WANT TO BE GOOD ALIGNED

See: Eternal Guardian

Actually pretty fun.

>>44935512
This is pathfinder - unless you have a very broad personality type idea (eg 'yandere') then you pick a class you think will be fun to play first, then think up the character second.

>>44935030
So would the good-aligned opposites of succubus and incubus be blowccubus and outcubus?

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>>44934954
I think Lillends come the closest.

>http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/azata.html#azata-lillend

>Among the azatas, lillends are the tale-tellers and chroniclers, gathering lore and recording stories in the form of epic poems and songs. They are generally peaceful, though they are swift to act if they believe a piece of rare art or a talented artist is threatened. A lillend's lower section is about 20 feet long, and a typical lillend weighs 3,800 pounds.

>Although they have no need of mortal nourishment, it is said that lillends sup on the joy of music, art, and performance. They also love unspoiled wilderness and seek out places in the mortal realm that remind them of the beauty of their home plane. From the lore of numerous races come tales of these muses, particularly those that have taken a vested interest in the training of a single talented prodigy or the ongoing creation of some fantastic work of art. Such legends sometimes prove true, as all lillends have their favorite works, creations, and artists, and often visit the Material Plane to enjoy their splendor and make sure they remain safe. In the defense of such beauty, lillends prove passionate foes, calling upon the might of nearby allies or crushing philistines in their striking but deadly coils.

They would have to make the artist fall in love so they can make more artwork about it for them to eat.

>>44935693
This. Paizo confirmed.

> Casting an evil spell is not an alignment infraction in and of itself, as long as it doesn't violate any codes, tenents of faith, or other such issues. Committing an evil act outside of casting the spell, such as using an evil spell to torture an innocent NPC for information or the like is an alignment infraction. For example: using infernal healing to heal party members is not an evil act.

@Gareth for potentail Bloodforge 2

MaenadxMerfolk

Maenad are people of the sea, but on boats. Merfolk are people of the sea, but underwater.

They could create a psionic half-breed like a Siren that has racial stuff for Mind-Affecting abilities. Makes sense because Maenads already had that emotion stuff.

half asleep, excuse grammar.

This is an odd request, but bear with me:

I need a dungeon that is sorta like Thistletop from RotRL, but not exactly the same thing. Basically, a two-level dungeon complex that can serve as an interesting home for a Mushfen Cabalist (Swamp Witch) who's the servant of a Green Dragon.

If you know any cool dungeons from any modules or whatever that might work, please let me know so I can shamelessly steal their layouts.

>>44936502
The one multilayer dungeon from Thornkeep. Bonus points, the woods surrounding the town actually have a green Dragon, so you can really rip off the book wholesale

>>44934984
>Succubi are an incarnation of rape
No they fucking aren't. They're incarnation of LUST.

>>44936598
Yeah, its incubi who are rape demons, because male sexuality is inherently violent.

Anyone used the Called Shot Gambit for the Warlord? My DM has allowed Called Shots so I'm tempted to take it next time I level on my Warlord. With the Improved Called Shot feat it seems like it'd be one of the better Gambits for getting maneuvers back as you can do a called shot as part of a full or standard attack (so I guess combined it with a maneuver). The Improved Called Shot feat also looks like it'd go really well with Ruby Zenith Strike and similar moves as it'd be easy to break the 50 damage threshold and inflict a debilitating hit.

>>44936631

You say that sarcastically, but Jessica Price confirmed that's how she sees male sexuality in that one thread.

I figure PFG is as good a place to ask as any, since I probably won't get much just making a thread for this;

I've been using a modified Dragon's Demand as an intro chapter for my game. But rather than stick around until level 7 and kill the dragon, the party is just going to be leaving town and heading off on another quest, with the books the dragon wants in hand.

What I can't figure out is how to bring the dragon on-screen so the players know it exists, and it knows they have the books, but not have either group end up dead.

If they just leave, the dragon would probably just tear up the town assuming the books are there. If the dragon turns up at the auction and demands the books, there's no way the group would leave town.

I could easily just have the dragon follow them without them knowing it is, and show up later, but I feel like it needs SOME set-up.

Writers block sucks.

>>44935869
The best hugs.

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>>44937253
>A lillend's lower section is about 20 feet long, and a typical lillend weighs 3,800 pounds.

But I want to survive the hug.

I just realized that they might be the opposite of the Marilith, not the succubus.

Hey /tg/, I'm a shit DM and hosting a homebrew, Dark Souls-esque campaign for my party of three. This session they'll be visiting their first settlement after a ton of sessions wandering in isolation.
The hook wll be that there's no actual humans, but instead a kind of outsider dubbed the "Imperfect". Story behind them is, that the gods made a sort of blueprint world before shaping the material plane, but abandoned it after they made the material plane. The inhabitants, aka the Imperfect are thus pretty envious of those their makers actually pay attention to and so they attempt to mimic them to the point where they believe they are actually the people they're imitating, though imperfectly.

So the town will be filled with Imperfects that took over after the humans all died after the apocalyptic events that started the setting. For now the party is unable to communicate with them until they recover a certain artifact.

But how I know them they'll explore the settlement before actually getting the artifact. So now I need some ideas for small encounters that accustom the PC's to the Imperfect and reveal some of their quirks, all the while without relying on actual communication.

So far I have:
>Blacksmith sells really shitty armor made by himself, but also some old pieces by the previous, human blacksmith that are actually pretty good.
>Imperfect criminal being hung in the market square, but not dying due to their anatomy, causing an outrage in the crowd/guardsmen.
>An exceptionally large, hastily expanded graveyard (to house all the dead humans).
>Owner of the magic item shop will actually be the "odd one" in the bunch, whereas he doesn't actually believe himself to be a human and is aware of everything, will be a good source of information once the party is able to communicate.
>Thief attempting to steal from the party, potential of including the law enforcement.
>Cutthroats in the seedy part of town.

Any more suggestions/criticism?

>>44937999
Watch an LP of Baroque; that'll give you some inspiration.

>>44937545
The hugs only do 2d6+5. So it not even a bad cost for what its worth.
>Said the 8'3", 440lb Half-giant Egoist
Share Pain and Fast Healing mean you can go for a while.

>>44938012
Eh, don't really have time to watch some random LPs. Judging from the wiki page it doesn't seem to be too fitting, though.

>>44934407
She is 23. I think she knows what sex is.

>>44938124
24 actually.
Born 4692 AR, current year on Golarion is 4716 AR

>>44937214

So did they just steal all of Hunclay's stuff and ran away?

>>44938124
>I think she knows what sex is.

I'm like 80% sure she doesn't.

She's been getting off using other ways for so long that I doubt she's had genuine hand-holding sex.

>>44937177
Where?

>>44937177
Got a link or screenshot of that? That's insane.

>>44938363
What AP does she appear in btw and is she waifuable?

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>>44938401
>>44938398

Testosterone confirmed to turn you into a violent, unthinking ape.

The lower the testosterone, the better of a human being you are!

>>44938463

She's appearing in Book 4 of Hell's Vengeance, For Queen and Empire.

It's suggested she may be waifuable, and considering she's young, single and in possession of a country, odds are she will.

>>44938465

That's what you took away from what she said?

She didn't even say aggression was a bad thing, in fact she implied it could be useful.

>>44938465

Yeah, that's not how I took that. I hate the woman with a fiery passion normally reserved for stuff like the Kineticist, but that's reaching a bit.

>>44938602

"Violent, egotistical and deficient in the ability to think rationally" are the words she used.

Being "aggressive" is much different than being "violent", and I don't think "deficiency" has ever been described in a positive light.

>>44935134
Thanks for the info.

On an unrelated note, the Astral Deva monster class has its fixed PDF uploaded to dreamscarred.com, drivethru, and rpgnow. Paizo's site and d20pfsrd's updates are pending, but should be up soon. Thought people ought to know.

>>44938465
>Came along with agriculture
The system's been in place back when humans were still hunters/gatherers, ffs. It didn't start with agriculture.

>>44938672
Did 2hufag do something for good and NOT be a worthless shithead for once?

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How strong is a Pathwalker psychic warrior?

>>44938289
They're still exploring his manor, they haven't even hit he second floor yet.

I actually plan on holding the auction AFTER the players visit Brinestump Marsh and return with the stuff from there, I just...don't know how to run the dragon part.

>>44938790
They're a solid class with native access to 6th level maneuvers and 6th level powers. They're slightly better if you have access to PoW:E, but that's true about all initiators.

>>44938845
Do warpath followers still give up really little? Especially warpriests.

>>44938863
You could check the doc yourself. I haven't made any changes to their trades, but I also think their losses balance their gains.

>>44938941
Nigga, all warpriest warpath followers REALLY lose by level 6 is Sacred Weapon +1. Sacred Weapon damage is irrelevant and the template gives them Weapon Focus back.

They're getting badass mystic maneuvers out of the deal.

>>44938972
They also have fewer spells.

>>44938990
Warpath Follower

Undertaking a Warpath requires dedicated service to the arts of war. Those who pursue a Warpath lose some of their divinely granted class features in order to gain the power necessary for their undertaking. Below is what each class gives up in order to gain a Warpath

Inquisitor
- The Inquisitor loses their Judgement Class Feature.
- The Inquisitor loses their Second Judgement Class Feature.
- The Inquisitor loses their Third Judgement Class Feature.
- The Inquisitor loses their True Judgement Class Feature.

Warpriest
- The Warpriest loses their Focus Weapon Class Feature.
- The Warpriest loses their Sacred Weapon Class Feature.
- The Warpriest loses their Sacred Armor Class Feature.
- The Warpriest loses their Aspect of War Class Feature.

???

Unless you're seriously giving that "Well they can't use as many spells in one combat, it's not like they can use those spells for utility or anything xDDD" crap again.

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>mfw you find a campaign with the perfect premise and amazing build-up.
>mfw it's 15 PB with Core Classes

>>44936926
As an addition to this, does Improved Called Shot work with stuff like Ruby Zenith Strike? I note that it says 'replace with a called shot' so does that means the effects of the strike are no longer in place? What happens if you use it with something like Dragon Assault? Does one of the strikes no longer do the +1d6 damage per successful hit effect because it's being 'replaced' with a called shot instead?

>>44939097
If you're replacing an attack, the attack's effects aren't gonna do shit.

>>44938465
Actually Women are just as "violent" as men, that violence just manifests itself in a different way.

A man will destroy your body.

A woman will destroy your relationships with the people around you.

>>44939089
Why not play a wizard?

>>44935739
CARLOS

>>44939110

Because I don't like playing casters, they've always felt stale and generic to me.

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>>44939089
>mfw i make campaigns with good premises
>mfw i make them core-only and 15pb

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>>44939132

Anon, why do you hurt me like this?

>>44939086
No, they're supposed to cast 1 fewer spell of each level they can cast in addition to that. I did not realize it had been removed from the playtest doc

Players keep looking for sales on equipment and magic items. I keep giving them things like "10% off foldable boats today" or "the local shop gives discounts on level 1 potions if you let them sponsor your armor."

Is this going to bite me in the ass and make the players overpowered? How much do I adjust the CR when the players are slightly wealthier? Should I just give them less gold?

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>>44939141

>>44939255
Not really. They'll be slightly stronger but CR is mostly worthless as a measure anyway (if the party is at least moderately optimized they'll blow through all but the stupidly under-CR'd monsters).

>>44939255
If your players have enough money to constantly be spending on things, you're not running the game properly.

Money = impossible-to-control superhero rocket tag.

No money = actually able to regulate challenge against the party.

Don't buy into the "Pathfinder is about high powered anime combat".

>>44939383
>Money = impossible-to-control superhero rocket tag.

This is why you give them money-sinks.

Like real estate or wives.

>>44939255
If you give them large discounts on things they obviously want and need(like +stat items, cloaks of resistance, magic weapons, etc.) then that might become an issue at some point, though it probably wont. 10% off of a foldable boat? Non-issue. In fact, if they spend all their money on things like foldable boats, chances are that for encounters they can't creatively solve, they'll be underpowered.

>>44939383
>No money = actually able to regulate challenge against the party.

You could also effectively make money worthless past a certain point a la the Wish Economy. Sure you have a shit load of chunks of none magic metal but magic items past a certain value or + modifier are effectively priceless.

So /pfg/ - you were rather enthusiastic with letting us know what sorts of hybrids you'd like to see. We've heard your ideas - and have already written one.

We got so excited we bashed the whole thing out last night in a few hours, actually.

We'll be working on some of the others Soon(tm). Keep a weather eye out for a playtest.

>>44939383

Doesn't no money just fuck over the guys who picked classes that need magic items on account of foolishly not having the power to tell physics to shut up and sit down?

I don't think you're gonna have a great time when the druid's having a sensible chuckle about needing money to kill his enemies with battalions of dinosaurs while the fighter quietly wonders when he will one day be able to afford a +1 sword.

>>44939429
>and have already written one.

Don't tease us like this, which one?

>>44939383

If you have to regulate things like money or character creation to keep the campaign functional, you're doing something wrong.

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>>44939443
> Don't tease us like this, which one?

That would be telling, anon.

>>44939438
>>Doesn't no money just fuck over the guys who picked classes that need magic items on account of foolishly not having the power to tell physics to shut up and sit down?

No. You can still give them loot, you just have to teach them that:

A.) Loot comes from doing things, and not just going out and killing some goblins and expecting them to have a room full of treasure.

B.) They can't pick and choose their loot. Sorry, if the ancient builders of this ruined temple left a magic scimitar in the vault, and you use a longsword, that's not their fault. Verisimilitude.

And you won't hit the point where the Fighter absolutely cannot survive without a +1 sword for a while. By then, he'll probably have found something to make do.

>>44939438
>druid's having a sensible chuckle about needing money to kill his enemies with battalions of dinosaurs while the fighter quietly wonders when he will one day be able to afford a +1 sword.

The issue there is having a game with fighters AND druids in. I've largely started restricting classes based on either a) the campaign setting or b) what the initial players who gen their characters want to play. If the first few players I gen up want to play a Wizard, Druid and Cleric then great... it's a Tier 1 and 2 game only. There are now a metric fuck ton of base classes these days so restricting classes like this still gives players plenty of opportunity to play out their concepts.

>>44938646

No, she said that if testosterone affected all men the same that would be the result. That's a stupid thing to say because it's not a logical conclusion, but it was a false hypothetical she used as a contrast to her view of reality.

What she said she believed was that "Hormones affect different people differently". You can't go from that to "Testosterone confirmed to turn you into a violent, unthinking ape.".

>>44939443
>If you have to regulate things like money or character creation to keep the campaign functional, you're doing something wrong.

But a well-regulated, low power, low wealth game will remain more enjoyable for more people longer than a high-power monty haul game. That's a fact. NO ONE likes rocket tag. You can do that with your theorycrafting, not as a roleplaying game.

>>44939477

It kinda sounds like you'd be happier playing 5e, where the combat math actually is based on the notion you might not have any magic items except when fighting some really high-tier shit.

PF kinda assumes literally everyone in the party is decked out to the teeth in magic items in its monster design.

>>44939496
Speaking from experience, me and my group tend to enjoy higher-power games with items far more than low-power rusty dagger shanktown.

We play at an op level where there's no such thing as "low power" though. Still pretty well-regulated. Your mileage may vary.

High-wealth, high-power games tend to actually /not/ be rocket tag in my experience. When both the PCs and the enemies have things that end the fight easily, defenses get bought more and roleplaying is more emphasized, and the fights, if they happen at all, become closer to puzzle bosses than normal dungeon crawls.

>>44939524
It feels like it's the other way around, where monsters are too easy for a properly kitted party.

>>44939477
Except... the fighter is going to need that to be a +1 longsword, because a +1 scimitar is going to be less accurate in a specialist's hands, and Pathfinder doesn't allow for verisimilitude in non-casters.

>>44938797

Shouldn't they have been sent in by the Mayor to rescue the stuff, which belongs to his family, in return for a big fat discount on the auction? Giving them a reason to be at the auction.

If not, just have the mayor waiting outside to politely remind them all that stuff isn't theirs but thanking them for taking care of the traps. Maybe giving them some other odd job to allow them to get a discount at the auction.

>>44939496

See >>44939534

Players are not stupid, the DM should not be stupid, when one gets a lot of slack the other should too.

Some of the greatest games I've ever been in were high-powered, high-level campaigns where the DM didn't pull any of his punches. On the flipside, some of the worst campaigns I've ever been in were dry dungeon-crawls where the DM treated us like we'd break his toy at any second.

>>44939496
I hope you never ever DM.

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Average fag here. I saw this at my local book store and seems like a cheaper DnD to me. Was gonna make a new thread and found this one. What do you guys make of this box, is it easy to pick up and play and is it fun?

was checking it out on facetube n seems to take a dogs age to get started. I am tabletop retarded so an idiots guide to the game is needed for me.

>>44939496
Pathfinder completely falls apart and becomes completely unusable under those conditions. THAT is a fact.

>>44939534

>That spoiler

Reminds me of the time the DM gave us some ridiculous character generation and for the second session threw two dozen Orcs at us.

That fight at level 2 was more memorable than many of the fights I've had at level 16 in other campaigns.

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>>44935512
Personally I actually like reading splat books and try to draw from players guides to campaigns as much as possible, then I kind of think of characters I've enjoyed and how I can incorporate some of their personality traits.

For example I plan on playing an astomoi warlock vigilante in Hell's rebels when my group gets to it and I'm going to play as a character similar to The Question from DC comics. Generally speaking, either find s class that fits/you wanna play and just expand on tropes piecing it together like a puzzle or build off of a cool flavor idea to make it mechanically good.

Also unless your group plays in a custom setting that allows you too, avoid third party unless you are the type who likes to reflsvor everything they do ignoring lore for the sake of mechanical power.

>>44939667
It's a more complex/customizeable version of the current (5th) edition of DnD. The upside is that you can find all material online for free on the the pathfinder srd.

Beginner Box seems to be pretty good for a start I heard.

>>44939667
>easy to pick up
no
>easy to play
even after after years of practice, it's still complex and convoluted
>fun
The game's fun lies in its overwhelming plethora of character options and interactions, as well as the group, but not in the system itself. The system is nonfunctional in many places and just plain broken in others. The company publishing it actively hates people who try to understand their game.

If you're getting into ttrpgs for the first time, I recommend D&D 5e. Pathfinder is fun, but it should never be someone's first game.

>>44939667
Pathfinder is a brick wall of shit to get into, and I would highly recommend against it for a "babbys first TTRPG". If you still want to stick with dungeons and dragons, go with what >>44939703 said and use 5e. It's a simpler, more sensible system that doesn't try (and fail) to make a rule for every stupid thing.

>>44939703
Listen to this man, Pathfinder is not a good system especially for beginners. ESPECIALLY for beginner DMs. A badly ran PF campaign is enough to make you swear off ttrpgs and never give them a fair shot. You'll find yourself scratching your head at obtuse rulings and wanting to claw your eyes out over schizophrenic errata from the writers more times than you can imagine and you'll start assuming that every system is this horrible, it isn't; you can play something else.

I'm not saying never play PF, just give it some time and understand some basic ttrpg concepts before trying to tackle this (and honestly, only come back to PF if you value having an insane amount of options to you when creating and advancing characters, if that doesn't matter to you or if you just don't like a crunchy system then you actually can avoid PF for the rest of your life.) As he mentioned 5e D&D is wonderfully simple and has enough options that you won't become bored for quite some time.

Even though we all play this pile of shit and will continue to do so doesn't mean it's good, it means we're masochistic and autistic. Any and everyone in this general could write a thesis on PF/Paizo flaws. Seriously stay away for your first time.

>>44933786
We toasted fallen comrades and my character became 4 years younger, then got extremely paranoid and went murdering to handle the stress.

So pretty good.

>>44939695
>>44939703
>>44939866
>>44939959
Thanks guys u saved me a lot of pain.

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How did you last game go, /pfg/?

This week in the Mythic treks in Eberron, (or should I simply address this by its campaign name The Mourning After?), the party has finally discovered an exit from the Doom Vault, the abandoned underground Goblin city beneath Zolanberg. Before that, however, we had been ambushed by a squad of Black Lotus Monks whom had been hunting down a member of our party. Apparently, an Oracle we'd rescued had been contracted to steal the holy texts from the Black Lotus and they've been hunting us down ever since. In the midst of an interrogation, three Karrnathi Bulettes burst through the ground along with what may have been an Eidolon punching through the ceiling! Too many things with Tremor Sense. A few dozen bullets and an undiscerning hammer to the Bulettes and a Maximized Scorching Ray to drive off the Eidolon later and things became quiet once again; sadly our captive had been out of reach for our aid and had been caught in the crossfire.

Before taking the ladder to the city above, our Rogue put up the argument that the Goblin Council Quarters had literally been right next door and had a high likelihood of having phat lootz. And phat lootz it had indeed. Our Warpriest player ended up rolling a 100 and popped into the minor Artifact table, so we ended up collecting the Mantis Blade, which is a little something that no one in the party would want to wield, what with nobody being LE. Not that many of us could in the first place. In a sudden spurt of creativity, the GM decided to refluff the Mantis Blade to help fit it in with the world a little more smoothly.. into The Black Lotus Blade. Oh goody! If nothing else, it may prove to become a useful bargaining chip in the future.

So in the mean time, we rest, re-outfit, calm our nerves, and then we shall climb up to the city above to continue our efforts to take back the Lightning Rail.

Wordswordswords

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>>44933786
>>44940127
>"How did your last session go?" had already been posted
Well this is embarrassing.

>>44939383
>No money = casters can still steamroll encounters while martials will be even more useless

FTFY

>>44939477
>And you won't hit the point where the Fighter absolutely cannot survive without a +1 sword for a while

I believe it's called 2nd level which happens after a single session.

>>44940339
>going up a level per session
nigger wut?

>>44940356
>Staying at level 1 for long
>Starting at level 1

>>44940385

Fun fact, my group's first-ever TTRPG outing together was a PF campaign that started at level 1.

We agreed never to start there again, pretty much unanimously.

>>44940385
>>44940403
What's the agreed upon canonical starting level for PF? I'd throw in my two cents on 3rd level.

>>44940403
Well, a lot of published APs want to start at level 1, otherwise either the plot or the CR math breaks.

>>44940429
There's no agreed-upon level. APs start at 1 because rusty dagger shanktown is considered by their writers to be an important part of a well-balanced diet.

My group likes 3 (low level start), 6 (normal start; everyone is getting their builds online and /competent/, and the cool abilities have often arrived), or 12 (high-level start. Skips to the very end of the functional parts of the game, and then goes for some more levels as people get the really strong abilities).

>>44940429
Published content assumes you love starting at level 1. Beyond that, everyone likes different things. I've been at campaigns that started at 2nd, 4, and 9th level. My last own campaign started at level 2, and the next will start at level 8(mostly because I was kind of expecting people to use at least some of the same characters, which is turning out not to be the case).

>>44940513

This guy knows what's up. 3, 6, or 10-12 is the way to start.

>>44940127
Not too bad. Our attempt to infiltrate Brinewall Castle failed spectacularly, the Slayer one-shotted a charging spider with a crit, the PsyArm blew up a ballista, the Monk and my ZS Bushi are in negotiations over who gets to kill the Bard, and we all pondered why JJ would think puttnig an archer in a 10-ft deep room was a good idea.

>>44940631

Just wait until you meet the Tengu.

A proper Tengu at that, not of the Corvid variety.

>>44940403
Same. Level 1 starts are pretty blah.
Usually my groups like a starting point at level 5. Means they can have the basis for a build. We also tend to keep to tier 2-3 for where we try to stay for optimization. Witch, Psion Egoist, Barbarian, and Rogue. Casters were the experienced players guiding the Barbarian and Rogue. I was Psion and did Buffing and tactical movement for the melee, Fold Space, Hustles for full-attacks etc. Rogue ended up going for Sap Master which actually worked really well with th Bleeding Attack rogue talent. Witch was debuffing and BFC.

Boy did they get reckless after I got Psionic Revivify though. Also the barbarian got feeble-minded and kidnapped once. That was actually a fun session.

>>44940752

Huh. You'd think feeblemind would be one of the save-or-sucks least capable of stopping a Barbarian from wrecking your shit.

>>44940631
Why can't you two work together to kill the bard?

Is Mummy's Mask a good AP?

Mythic unchained monk with abundant step and the dimensional dervish feat line. outflank, sieze the advantage, and ruthless opportunist teamwork feats and mythic combat reflexes. Last part is a weapon with a good crit range. You teleport attack and flank with yourself, any critical hit you confirm provokes 2 AoOs through your teamwork feats, that then can provoke their own AoOs. For each AoO that hits you get the +2 circumstance bonus to all the rest of your attacks in that round. Circumstance bonuses stack, so even better. So without any 3rd party you can go infinite.

Stalker dip, the stalker teamwork feat, and stalker art can have you lower your crit range by 2 on top of any keen or improved crit, the lowest you could go is a 13-20. The stalker art that lets you roll twice on your attack rolls and take the better result would also improve your hit and crit rates.

Am I ever going to be allowed to play it? No, but it was nice to make a thing where you could be like 'Did I crit them? Ok, I could start rolling or are we just going to say it dies?'

>>44940948
I wouldn't say it's bad, but it's less an AP and more a long series of dungeon crawls loosely roped together. The first book opens with "just assume the party already know each other and already signed up for the dungeon crawl together", and it doesn't get much less hand-wave-y from there. If that's what your group's into, it's a perfectly average AP, but anyone looking for interesting NPCs and roleplay is gonna be disappointed.

>>44941032

What would you say is the most "cinematic" AP?

Like, the kind that goes for interesting NPCs and roleplay with a nice range of set locations, all wrapped up in a plot that makes it feel like a story?

Something that makes me a give a damn about what's going on, and the people involved in it.

>>44941075

That sounds exactly like Jade Regent, in the hands of the right DM that will probably be the greatest campaign you'll ever experience.

Yes, Ameiko is a really cute character when done right.

>>44940930
I assume something to do with the loot.

>>44941166
>Loot
>not Lute

>>44941075
Skull & Shackles can be fantastic with the right DM. Sadly most groups flounder because their DMs turn it into a rollplay rather than a roleplay.

>>44941136
So is literally any other female character the DM could come up with, though, and they don't suffer from being JJ's waifu.

Anyone have the Garmist bestiary screenshot? It came up in a discussion and I don't have it saved, nor can I find it again.

>>44939534

I had the same experience. For a large part of a campaign our party was really poor. Like we had total equipment worth around 30.000 gp from 7 to 19 as a 4 player party. Absence of necessary equpment were really showing itself. We are vulnerable too many things and only way to survive a combat encounter was just killing as fast possible. Money and equipment solve this issue, because with equipment you can withstand the encounters.

>>44941233

Doesn't make a lot of sense for some random Ulfen girl to be heir to the Jade Throne.

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>>44941315

>Heir to the Jade Throne is a Tian/Ulfen woman you chance upon in Kalsgard during Book 2 of Jade Regent
>Turns out Ameiko wasn't the heir, and the Amatatsu Seal was simply directing the party north to uncover the true heir

You could even have Suishen confirm this, just make the Kaijitsu's an important family related to the Amatatsu.

>>44941315
Ulfen have the highest population of part-blooded Tien, though.

>>44941166
Nah, it's really more that he's an openly gold-digging philanderer who is trying to date every woman in the caravan who has even the hint of being rich. As the result, the Monk (Shalelu's student/crush) and the Bushi (Ameiko's childhood friend/guardian) haven't taken kindly to his "I'm actively trying to win someone over for their money" routine.

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>>44941359
>>44941378

>mfw this is actually making a lot of sense
>mfw it wouldn't even alter the AP's plot in any appreciable way

>>44941398
And that justifies murder how?

>>44941430

They can get away with it?

>>44941398
>>44941430
More like: "And that prevents you two from working together to murder him how?"

>>44941398
Wait, you're PCs and willing to kill someone because he annoys you. Why are you upset that the party might be getting more money? Are you fags getting cucked by him or something?

>>44941430
None, yet. It's more that everyone has been getting sick of him. It's mostly a "We know what you're up to, and you're on the fast track to an honor duel against multiple people if you keep this up" situation. As >>44941476 says, it's probably going to wind up with us teaming up on him eventually.

>>44940855
He had split off from the rest of the group with his minions, 3 Stone Giants the party had beaten the crap out of and made Hirelings. he was already buffed up and we had Mindlink active so he could call in help if he needed it. You need atleast 3 int for Mindlink to work. All his allies got killed and he got his teeth killed in by some archers and a Dragon Culist who was a lvl 11 Sorcerer when the party was lvl 11.

It was done as a solo adventure because he missed a session due to exams and wanted to do one. It was a fun session hook for the rest of us, but barbarian was short his gear and ability to understand us until combat was done. He still recognized us, but without weapons and equipment he wasn't nearly as effective. So we buffed him to be able to fight and survive.

Couldn't remove Feeblemind until I had 10minutes to use Psychic Reformation and use Aura Alteration to remove it. (It was the only power that I had as a Psion that would work on Feeblemind, and I didn't have 7th level powers yet)

This was also his first campaign playing Pathfinder, he'd had like 12 sessions before but he hadn't had to lead his allies in those cases.

>>44941499

The way the Relationship system in Jade Regent works is that the one with more points in Diplomacy and Charisma usually "wins."

Since the gold-digger is a Bard, this puts him at a distinct advantage versus the Monk and Bushi, and since Ameiko is particularly wealthy the Bard has a better shot at touching those Tian tits than the Bushi.

Same with Shalelu, only replace fat Tian tits with fat Elf tits.

>>44941565
We're actually not using the Relationship system, since we pretty much agreed that it just becomes a numerical race.

>>44941601
So you don't like realistic relationships?

>>44939583
Late reply.

I don't need to solve the problem of the players taking stuff from the Manor, or running the auction.

What I need to solve is:

>How do I get this dragon introduced as a character, believably threatening to the players and cementing the understanding that THEY have books HE wants, and then have them leave on a caravan trip with the dragon following them in the distance?

Basically, I need to set up the dragon as a recurring villain, but the problem is I can't have the players beat him up and send him packing, because he's a much higher level than they are.

>>44941601

So why are you so worried about the Bard going to pound town on Ameiko?

>>44941617
We don't like having to keep track of several sets of arbitrary running tallies in a game that was meant to be an interim game. Also, you seem to have a very strange and twisted view on how human interaction works if you think that dating-sim level "you must have this many points" systems are accurate to anything in the real world.

Who's actually DMing Jade Regent here?

I'm getting to the first book soon and I want to discuss actual plot stuff, but I don't think anyone actually runs campaigns like I do.

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>mfw I ignored the relationship bullshit in Jade Regent by shacking up with Ameiko's sister, a PC

>>44941790
>I'm getting to the first book soon and I want to discuss actual plot stuff, but I don't think anyone actually runs campaigns like I do.

I've never actually DMed Jade Regent before, but I've read the AP enough times to discuss plot stuff.

What did you want to talk about?

>>44941795
That's....not ignoring the relationship bullshit.

>>44941822

It's significantly easier to hook up with another player's character than hooking up with an NPC.

>>44941739
You're not very good with humor, are you?

>>44941861
From what I've seen while looking for replacements, the sentiment has been about 50/50 of it being serious.

>>44941820
It's all about plot flow. Brinestump takes about 3, maybe 4 sessions if you really stretch it, and Brinewall is similar. So the question I'm trying to work out is just how much padding to put between the two, because while I can easily fill the time, I haven't written anything to coincide with the actual plot.

The reason I hesitate to ask about fleshing out the trip is that I'm pretty sure most groups on /tg/ just handwave and timeskip it.

>>44941904
>So the question I'm trying to work out is just how much padding to put between the two, because while I can easily fill the time, I haven't written anything to coincide with the actual plot.

I'd put about maybe three sessions between leaving Sandpoint and arriving at Brinewall.

One session should be dedicated to a minor adventure, while the other two should be almost pure roleplaying, letting the players get involved with the major NPCs and maybe even introduce some custom NPCs of your own. I'd argue one session should be entirely "on the road" while another should be saying your farewells in Sandpoint as players work with Sandru to organize the caravan.

Your goal is to get every PC to give a damn about Ameiko's illness by the time they arrive at Brinewall, and to make them give a damn about the health and safety of the caravan.

Supposedly the game assumes the players should be fighting about four CR appropriate encounters per day or half that for higher CR encounters. How often in your experience, either as GM or player, do things actually work out this way?

>>44942004
>I'd put about maybe three sessions between leaving Sandpoint and arriving at Brinewall.

Yeah, see, I can't run a 9 session book. That's just not gonna happen.

I just haven't figured out what rewrites Jade Regent needs on the whole. The issue is, Book 1 is really, really light on plot, so there's not actually anything to advance or work with to flesh it out.

Which means I need to sit down now and start my writing, because I don't want to just carry players from town to town along the way doing unrelated, minor sidequests in each little rest stop.

>Your goal is to get every PC to give a damn about Ameiko's illness by the time they arrive at Brinewall
The "illness" is just a really silly plot device to keep Ameiko in the car. There's no reason why the players wouldn't care about her and want to solve the mystery about what happened to Brinewall without it.

>>44942107
I never really understood why they would start off "PC's do Japan" with fucking generic ass Goblin killing in generic vaguely European swampland.

>>44933786

>One of my players is a shadowdancer
>He wants to seek "comfort" with his shadow companion in the evenings
>TFW you're trying to decide whether or not to make him roll Str damage

>>44942131
Because the NPC they decided to make the center of the who story was a canon resident of a small town in Varisia?

>>44942131

Because it gives them a chance to do a long-ass journey across Golarion so you can get to Minkai?

>>44942107

>Which means I need to sit down now and start my writing, because I don't want to just carry players from town to town along the way doing unrelated, minor sidequests in each little rest stop.

I see the caravan bit as a touch essential, since a lot of the PC/NPC interaction is going to happen there. Sure it's light on the plot, but you need to spend at least a session using it to flesh out NPCs.

>>44942154
What was the logic behind that?

I get Ameiko is JJ's former planescape waifu, but why the fuck was making her the center of the plot allowed?

>>44938602
Yeah, Price sucks but her words are being taken out of context here. Like literally, people are taking random words out of sentences without any regards to the other words. Price could say "I don't smoke crack" and some of you assholes would quote her as "I... smoke crack" and say that's literally what she said.

>>44942208
Does it really matter what the logic was?

What are peoples' general thoughts on the Hell's Rebels AP these days?

>>44942202
Obviously the caravan part is essential, I think you and I are misunderstanding timescales. You see "at least one session using it" as required for NPC relationships and stuff, but I'm thinking more along the lines of 4 pure campfire sessions, since I can't picture completing an AP book in less than 16-20 sessions.

The problem with Brinewall Legacy obviously, is making that time feel like it means something. It's not hard to do with Runelords and Crimson Throne, but this is different.

>>44939458
Merrats when?

>>44942208
>but why the fuck was making her the center of the plot allowed?

He's the main writer? Who the fuck knows. It happened, that's all.

>>44942208
>but why the fuck was making her the center of the plot allowed?

Here is probably how the design process went down:

>Hey guys, we want to do something with Tian Xia
>Cool! So what, we start off in Tian Xia and expand it from there?
>Naw man, naw. We should have the players go on an epic journey from Avistan to Tian Xia, it'll let them make familiar faces in brand new places!
>Wicked! But... What will urge them to go to Tian Xia?
>Maybe a kingdom there needs their help
>Why the hell would a dude in Taldor care about someplace like Minkai?
>Maybe they care about someone who is linked with Minkai
>What, like a princess?
>Yeah sure, and they need to put her on the throne
>The PCs will need to give a shit about her, though.
>So... Where do we have a Tian girl that PCs would probably be familiar with?
>[JJ pops his head into the meeting.]

>>44942252

The first book of Jade Regent offers about a half-dozen quests you can do in the lands around Sandpoint, you could run a couple of those.

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>>44942140
>fucking a shadow

>>44942249
PCs are the true villains.

>>44942252
>The problem with Brinewall Legacy obviously, is making that time feel like it means something. It's not hard to do with Runelords and Crimson Throne, but this is different.

Here's what you do.

Take Book 1 of Rise of the Runelords, and run that before running Jade Regent.

>>44942370
Maybe get the whole party to roll up Dawnflower scum and watch the world news for tactical recommendations.

>>44942083
Not often.
Pacing and the like often cause things to end up with just 2, MAYBE 3 combats in a dungeon, and a handful of traps or skill affairs such as navigation, etc.

For the most part, the latter aren't much draining if at all, and by mid levels casters can *decide* whether or not the party is getting their sleep in now..

At that point you come to understand the real trick behind "infinite" users such as Initiator classes:
>You weren't going to use up 1/4~1/3 of your resources 4 or 5 times a day to begin with!

>>44942385
I did. Actually, not just RotRL's book 1, (since some players knew it already), but I wrote a custom mashup of Burnt Offerings and Dragon's Demand.

We're still playing it right now, but we'll be done soon, and moving onto Brinewall Legacy. Which is when I need to start doing writing to flesh the book out.

I think what I need to do is solidify a second plotline for Brinewall Legacy, something that can run parallel to the main story, and terminate either during or right before Brinewall castle. Ideally, something that tangentially involves Ameiko.

>>44942451
>I think what I need to do is solidify a second plotline for Brinewall Legacy, something that can run parallel to the main story, and terminate either during or right before Brinewall castle. Ideally, something that tangentially involves Ameiko.

>Something involving Amaya Kaijitsu
>Party runs into the family of cannibals that killed her first boyfriend

Writing only two hooks has made me realize just how little adventure the "Adventurer Country" like Varisia actually has.

>>44935887
>alignment infraction
What?

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>>44942400
A terrorist cult you say?

>>44942451
>>44942252

Anon, you're thinking way too hard on padding out Book 1 when it was never anything more than an introduction to the Ameiko's birthright and the start of your journey.

I'd honestly just bite the bullet and power through that with whatever you have written up, ignore the second plotline, and focus your efforts on padding out Book 2, since that one contains a metric fuckton more plot hooks, story opportunities and general "stuff to do."

Hell, it's so full of things to do you could spend months in-game in Kalsgard, since if I remember correctly the reason the caravan has trouble finding a guide over the Crown of the World is because it's not "traveling season."

>>44942608
> Captain Yesterday really phoning in the fun police gag

>>44942617
That is a way of looking at it, not really one I'd considered.

I was talking to some players of mine, and I THINK I may have solved my green dragon problem, and if I play the cards in the right order, I can make him the "second plotline", that keeps the party on their toes for the whole trip since they have a green dragon hunting them.

I still need to sit down with the book, but I haven't plotted out Book 2 enough to really gauge whether there's enough hooks and plot threads to expand it into a 27-sessioner like I did with Edge of Anarchy.

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>>44942689
And the ride just kept going.

>>44942608
>>44942876
>My Players Have Become ISIS!
That sounds like a fun light novel title.

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>>44942876
>MFW pouring out a 40 for MrBubbles

The occultist seems like the only semi-decent occult class, but trying to understand it is like wading through garbage, and I absolutely cannot understand it.

>>44942249
The adventures area series of missions NPCs send you on followed by a finale that takes place in a large dungeon.

The AP is heavily NPC focused, most of the NPC gallery is spent statting out allies who aren't meant to take part in combat. The players spend most of their time running errands. Most of the 'rebellion' takes place at the instance of these NPCs who also seem to heap on you the legacy of the Silver Ravens without giving you any real reason to care. Event he weekly SILVER COUNCIL meeting is spurred on by NPC suggestion and you're always saving someone to add to the ever expanding roster.

Barny Thrune is so hilarious it's hard to take him seriously as a threat. He's the most Disney villain of all the AP BBEGs and his end goal is not well explained. Some of the villains make classic villain choices when a pragmatic choice would have given them victory.

Some of the tasks the PCs are set too can come off as morally ambiguous but the AP never takes the time to examine if the players feel justified by their actions. On the other hand, any attempt to delve into a morally gray area of taking down the evil tyranny is totally ignored and discouraged, often by NPC pressure.

Dance of the Damned looks interesting, but the finale is a confusing mass combat with possibly dozens of NPCs and enemies that could easily turn into a clusterfuck.

Any concerns about separating from Cheliax, such as supplies, retaliation or loyal citizens not wanting to leave the empire are ignored. The Good Guys are Good and that is all that matters.

Beating Cheliax and getting freedom from them hinges on a magical Disney song that, conveniently, can be sung by JJ's waifu.

I'll leave you with that.

>>44943190
>The AP is heavily NPC focused, most of the NPC gallery is spent statting out allies who aren't meant to take part in combat. The players spend most of their time running errands. Most of the 'rebellion' takes place at the instance of these NPCs who also seem to heap on you the legacy of the Silver Ravens without giving you any real reason to care. Event he weekly SILVER COUNCIL meeting is spurred on by NPC suggestion and you're always saving someone to add to the ever expanding roster.

I never got why we're supposed to care about a dead resistance group that nobody gives a fuck about anymore.

Why couldn't the PCs make their own?

>>44943146
You have a number of implements. Each time you get an implement, you learn its basic focus power and its resonant power.

Whenever it says you learn a new focus power, you pick one from the list of one of your implements.

In addition, you have a number of mental focus points. At the start of the day, you distribute them across your implements as you like. Each implement's resonant power turns on to a degree based on how many you put into it at the start of the day, and stays at that strength for the day (anyone who carries the implement gets the resonant power).

Then, the points you put into each implement can be spent to activate the focus powers of that implement.

You can also store mental focus points in yourself, which can then be used (at double cost) to fuel focus powers from /any/ of your implements.

Finally, you have one spell known of each level you can cast per implement, of that implement's school. You need the implement on hand to cast those spells.

>>44943291
That makes it a bit clearer, thank you. I assume for the final one, that means I do not learn spells of a higher level I can cast, period. So I don't add it to my list of spells and stumble into it when I reach the appropriate level.

>>44942608
>>44942876
>Kalindlara constantly alerting the mods
God damn it, I want to slap Kalindlara around next time we see each other IRL.

>>44943257
They can make their own, but the AP assumes you follow int he footsteps of the Ravens. Why, I don't know, you aren't given much reason other than you collect a lot of their left over gear and shack up in their old hideout.

That and the tranny Rex has a huge hard on for them and he's the one who gets you into the whole rebellion mess.
>If Rex gets killed in the initial encounter, Crystal tells you to make it a servant of his in magical disguise to make sure he survives to give the PCs the plot hook in Book 1

>>44943321
I'm not sure how to parse that. For spells known, you always know one spell of each spell level per implement you have, based on its school:

>The occultist's selection of spells is limited. For each implement school he learns to use, he can add one spell of each level he can cast to his list of spells known, chosen from that school's spell list. If he selects the same implement school multiple times, he adds one spell of each level from that school's list for each time he has selected that school.

>When the occultist learns to cast a new level of spells, he immediately adds one spell of that level to his list of spells known from each implement school he knows (plus any extra spells from schools he has selected multiple times).

So at 1st level, you have two implements and can cast 1st-level spells. You known two 1st-level spells. At 2nd level, you get a third implement, and with it, a third 1st-level spell.

Then, at 4th level, you unlock 2nd-level spells. EACH of your implements has a 2nd-level spell added to it. At 6th level, you get implement #4, which comes preloaded with a 1st-level spell and a 2nd-level spell. At 7th level, you unlock 3rd-level spells, and each imeplement gets one (for a total of +4 spells known at level 7).

Eventually, you will have 42 spells known, at level 18.

>>44943346
>nuh uh, he didn't die, it was his twin.
Wow, actually? That's terrible writing

>>44943404
Yes that clears up my question in its entirety. Thanks for the help.

>>44943190
To balance against that, could any folks experienced with the AP say some genuinely good things about it, if they can? Gotta get the good with the bad if we want to evaluate it.

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>>44943423
>good things

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>>44943190

>Any concerns about separating from Cheliax, such as supplies, retaliation or loyal citizens not wanting to leave the empire are ignored. The Good Guys are Good and that is all that matters.
>Beating Cheliax and getting freedom from them hinges on a magical Disney song that, conveniently, can be sung by JJ's waifu.

Of course, there's a more realistic song for rising up against fucking Cheliax.

https://youtu.be/CRQqz4-YfNo

>And we'll all realize, as they're gouging out our eyes, that tomorrow we'll regret it, but today we rise!

>>44943146
The Psychic is the least bad of the Occult classes, it's like a Sorcerer but worse because you don't get as many good spells and the ones you do get are mostly mind-affecting.

>>44943456
He's accidentally a good thing, right? Does that make it any less of a good thing?

>>44943460

Psychic does lose points for being completely unnecessary, though. Thing coulda been a sorcerer archetype. But nooooooo, we gotta have a 9th-level caster.

Man, why is Sword Saint so bad? Even Rogues get to deal their +Xd6 damage more than 7 times per day. Are there any ways to make it usable, or at least pump up the single decent standard action you get with stuff like Power Attack and Cornugun Smash?

>>44943460
Honestly, I think the Occultist is a great class. It was presented stupidly though, and seems far more boring and overcomplicated than it is. But I mean:

>42 spells known, spontaneously cast
>Neat abilities from class features, especially for detection stuff and item identifying
>A pile of useful abilities from their implements, most of which are not powerful stand-alone, but are good when combined together with other things.

etc. They're a very versatile and useful class that can play plenty of "caster" roles.

>>44943409

>It was a hologram

Crystal isn't good at this writing thing.

>>44943404
Well, maybe making cards for each implement would help keep track?

>>44943460
I don't mean decent in terms of power level, at least not entirely. My problem with occult adventures is that anything new and unique seems like garbage, and all the stagnant tried-and-true ideas get a pass. The occultist offers the same stuff we've always had, but in a more interesting format; which is FAR more than I can say about the kineticist, a class that actually makes me angry with how pointlessly garbage it is.

The psychic is powerful, but it is not a good class because it's a blatant sorcerer copypasta that doesn't try a single new thing.

>>44943190
>Beating Cheliax and getting freedom from them hinges on a magical Disney song that, conveniently, can be sung by JJ's waifu.
what

>>44943536
I've been making individual pastebins for it, since my group plays with our laptops on hand.

>>44943553
Why do you think #100 is called "A Song of Silver" and has Shensen on the front?

>>44943542

It surprises me that the Paizo forums seem to feel OA is better than the ACG even pre-errata.

I mean, the mesmerist and psychic are basically the bard and the sorcerer with half a new coat of paint.

The medium and kineticist are unique and interesting and therefore terrible because the new guy had to keep softballing how good he could make them and was loaded with a ton of arbitrary restrictions no other magic users get.

Spiritualist is extremely forgettable.

The Occultist was probably the only decent class to make it out of that mess, and OA was nothing BUT new classes and pointlessly bloating the spell list index some more. At least the ACG had good feats and such.

...Or it DID, before...y'know.

>>44943423
Same person here. I can point out the good as well.

Kintargo is an honestly interesting city and if you were to run a game like the one that takes place in Hell's Rebels, it's the best place to do it.

If you enjoy interacting with NPC's you have a wide range to choose from, not only personality wise, but you get the chance to recruit some eclectic allies like Hellknights to rescue captives and Aquatic Elves to stop ships from supporting troops.

The Rebellion system is much better designed than the Kingdom building rules and actually impacts the game as players can use it to learn special information about their targets and drop supplies in ahead of time for them to use mid-adventure.

Even though the amount of liberalism in Kintargo can be jarring or even suffocating, it's a place that, if you like the city, you genuinnly want to save it.

Despite Barny being a few circles short of a summoning, he is fabulous and the AP has some bad ass villains to fight against, both memorable and satisfyingly evil. >>44943456 is just one example. Villains worthy of fighting.

>>44943409
>>44943526
I did a double take when I read that. Usually an NPC has a note or something to put the players on the right track, but she writes it out clear as day to fudge the dice and replace Rex so he/she survives. That proves to me the AP is overly reliant on NPC spurring of the payers.
This is the same person who wrote The Divinity Drive with it's shit-ass pacing.

Even though Rex is kind of a bad ass, he comes off as moody and mopey, though his parents did just die, I guess. He would have been better off if he had been born a dude.

>>44943553
The Song of Silver, a magical song devoloped by the Silver Ravens in the past that emits a powerful aura over the whole city that weakens devils and allowed Kintargo to have a strong negotiating position back when the city was taken over by Thrune.

>>44943645
Yeah, agreed. I'm still waiting for DSP's version of the kineticist and the medium. What they've got doesn't really count, since it stripped away what made them them.

>>44943646

>Devils can be weakened by song

God fucking damn it, this is NOT HARD, people.

Perform (String Instrument), not Perform (Sing)! They're not notorious for losing SINGING contests!

>>44943646
>Even though the amount of liberalism in Kintargo can be jarring or even suffocating, it's a place that, if you like the city, you genuinnly want to save it

How liberal are we talking here? Any examples beyond the FtM?

>>44943680
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi13NxmjqLI

Agreed.

>>44943680
>>44943724

Johnny is how we should all Bard. Fuck Lust; play a bard backed by Pride and good enough to take it.

>>44943680
Oh my God, if the players had to find a magical silver fiddle to beat Thrune, it would have been the best moment ever!

>>44943710
In the second adventure you have to save a pirate captains male lover from his overbearing, aristocratic father who is keeping him locked in his room.

The rebellion starts because Thrune outlaws mint and penalizes the waste of corn.

The entire adventure arc is 'enlightened progressive artist-philosophers' verses 'patriarchal religious fundamentalists'.

The rebellion is started during a conversation in a coffee shop.

Kintargo is San Francisco.

>>44943781

>The rebellion starts because Thune outlaws mint

...You're telling me we wasted a perfectly good chance to have an AP about heavily armed girl scouts defending their best cookie from the evil clutches of the diabolically empowered nanny state?

>>44943808

Coconut-caramel are better.

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>>44943781
I have an idea.

>Infiltrator Inquisitor of Asmodeus
>is directly working for Bazzy
>earn the party's trust
>wait for the right moment
>activate keikaku

So when's the best time to strike?

>>44943781

>Hell's Rebels
>Good is absurdly good, evil is Disney tier bad.

>Hell's Vengeance
>"We want you to feel terrible for every act you take."

>>44943881
Oh jeez don't remind me.

>>44943724
>Devil plays a vastly superior piece
>claims he lost
This was written by the losers, wasn't it?

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>>44943881
>implying I'll feel terrible

Between my party being the players and our GM being sensible?

Paizo is no longer in control here.

>>44943859
Do the PCs ever actually fight Bazzy?

How bad are polearms in comparison to Greatswords?

>>44943933
I think it's book 4 (only have that because of the extras).

>>44943933
>Do the PCs ever beat down a mentally ill man and call themselves heroes?

What is "rusty dagger shanktown"?

I've tried googling it but can't find any info.

>>44944007
Level 1

>>44943955
A negative amount of bad, Reach is worth a small reduction in damage.

>>44943955
They're great if you need reach, like for an AoO build. Otherwise, meh. It should be noted that reach can be two-edged sword, as you can't hit adjacent enemies with a reach weapon. Damage-wise, Bardiche has the same crit profile as greatsword, and does 1.5 points less damage.

>>44944007
Extremely low levels where money and equipment are scarce, and where any schmuck can kill you with a dickstab.

>>44944018
Levels 1-3 or 4, depending on how high powered your campaign is.
Whenever you're in the range of 'dying to peasants armed rusty daggers' is when you're in rusty dagger shank town.

>>44943859
>implying that isn't what I plan on playing in Hell's Rebels/Vengeance

>>44943881
Pretty much.
The first adventure in Vengeance sounds like Spec Ops: The line for Pathfinder.
>DO YOU FEEL LIKE A HERO YET?

>>44943933
They fighter what turns out to be a shapeshifting Devil in book 3, but end up killing him in a raid on the temple of Asmodeus in book 4. Book five is about taking care of Thrune and keeping them from taking the city back and book 6 has Barny make a come back in his Final Form.

>>44943955

You're pretty much coming out ahead if you're using a Bardiche instead of a greatsword unless you can't swing a reach build.

I think the falchion's damage output is a little better due to crits, but there's that exotic polearm that closes the gap if you're willing to pay.

Can anyone post the kobold ' s incredibly repressed gag reflexes picture

>>44943346
>next time we see each other IRL.
You know that bitch? How? What is she like IRL? What color is her hair?

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Does this build still work?

>>44944223
No, you need three levels of soulknife to take Fighter's Blade.

Gonna play an Intimidate based Paladin. Is it worth dipping Fighter to get Intimidate?

>>44944153
>You know that bitch?
Yes.
>How?
Know each other from local gaming store.
>What is she like IRL?
Fine player, fun DM. Takes things too seriously and can cause a session to grind to a halt with an angry outburst in a public place. Left my game when I said some things that didn't match with their political/social views, didn't bother telling me until another player delivered the news. I still hope they choose to run Mummy's Mask since they said they would with me as a player.
>What color is her hair?
Fuck if I know, some brown.

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>>44943881

They can't seem to into evil campaigns.

It's like, if you don't wanna run one, tell your players you don't. That's what I do.

Trying to guilt-trip people who geared up for an evil campaign will always fail, and fail HILARIOUSLY most of the time.

>You think those Disney Villains are bad? Amateur hour. THIS is how you antagonize!

>>44943906
You're thinking of "The Pick of Destiny Ending."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9GT9YgDfKU

>>44944048

I want to join a Paizo-ran Hell's Vengeance so I can be the dog-shooting, old couple beating monster they deserve.

>>44943859
I have a better idea.

The powerful NPCs you've been supporting are actually Demons in disguise, who want to break the law of the Devils so they can spread chaos, anarchy, and wanton violence. In defeating one evil, the PCs unleash an even worse evil.

>>44944282
I can't imagine a situation where it would be worth a dip to get +3 to a single skill. You can probably get intimidate as a class skill with a trait, anyway.

>>44944299
I'll give the Player's Guide a good eyeball to see if I want to get this AP first and see how it compares to Way of the Wicked.

>>44944282
There should be a trait that'll get you intimidate as a class skill.

>>44944314
That would be so much fucking fun.
>waifu the Queen and be her black knight of Hell
This is my dream.

>>44944299

Look, I hate to defend Paizo here, but HOW are they guilt-tripping you with Hell's Vengeance? Because you have to kill a dog? Beat up an old couple? Hang a priestess's son?

How is that guilt-tripping? Those are evil acts and things people will do without a problem, the guilt-trip is entirely in the minds of those who associate those acts with "man they want us to feel bad" when, hate to say it, but YOU'RE FUCKING EVIL.

>>44944293
So she's mostly whiny, and really passive aggressive against anyone with badwrong thought that she doesn't agree with?

Have you ever attempted to talk to her in person about he she comes across due to her behavior, or is that impossible?

>>44935006
>eating love
>changing faces
Subtle, anon. Real fuckin' subtle.

>>44944384

>Abrogail will never hold your hand while you two watch the Glorious Reclamation's leaders get executed by Kuthites shipped fresh from Nidal.

She better be a socially-awkward Azula, complete with the clumsy flirting.

>>44944388
Problem is some folk 'round here love Cheliax and are hesitant to see anything it does as unjustified.

>>44941200
Seconded, I had an amazing time with skulls and shackles, as long as your dm doesn't railroad the shit out of it and your party can come to agreements and work together its pretty much the tits.

>>44944336
>>44944369
The only trait I saw that gave it to me doesn't fit the character.

>>44944447

How many tits does Skulls and Shackles have, anyway?

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>>44944388
You havn't read that AMA did you?

>>44944461
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/tools/traits-filter

Go ahead and type "Intimidate" into the filter above the Benefits column. There's like thirty related to the skill somehow or another.

>>44944388
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/41pnpu/im_f_wesley_schneider_author_of_bloodbound_and/?sort=new#cz48kse

>Having written the low-level kick-off to Hell's Vengeance, "The Hellfire Compact" I wanted to make players uncomfortable with what they were being asked to do. Many gamers seem to be evil-curious when that means killing dragons and fighting angels and summoning skeletal legions. But how about dealing with a dog trying to defend its master? Putting a noose around the neck of a priestess's son? Raising your weapons against a stubborn old couple? There's some messed up decisions in there and not a lot of glamour. I'm not trying to romanticize this, and I wasn't trying to make the most messed up things possible. These are realistic, small, real-world evils in there among the fantasy elements.

>If you're playing an evil game and it makes you feel bad, well, maybe that speaks well of you.

>>44944415
Yeah, pretty much.
Me and the shop owner have tried to for years. They're better off now than they used to be, but they've pretty much cut us out of their life because of it. They've become more and more SJW in recent years to the point where they don't want anything to do with us because we're a family store/Christian background.

But, if you're playing with someone who takes these in stride... maybe don't let them pet sit for you.

>>44944443
God, I hope so.
I could see paizo write her as a total bitch with no chance of waifuing just to spite us, as if Evil people can't find love.

>>44944516
There's also the fact that I'm already playing the character and have already picked my traits.

>>44944515
>Putting a noose around the neck of a priestess's son?

Why would I do that when I can keep him around to play with instead? I bet he's got a nice tight arse.

>>44944538
>>44944282
>Gonna play an Intimidate based Paladin
That doesn't exactly sound like "Oh, I've already finished chargen and played more than one session."

>>44944515
>>44944531

That doesn't disprove my point, you wanted and evil campaign so that means making evil decisions that, as he said, don't have a lot of glamor or pizzazz.

If he wanted to guilt-trip you it would be a lot more obvious in the story, like how you didn't have to kill the dog or the old couple were actually super important, nice job breaking them.

>>44944531

I feel like the only thing in here that even gives most neutral characters pause is hanging the priestess's son. Generally speaking with a lot of non-good characters anything that can defend itself is fair game.

im intrested in Pathfinder Player Companion: Agents of Evil does anyone have a link?

>>44944531

Wasn't Greta NE?

If Abrogail isn't a waifu I can guarantee DMs will make her one.

>>44934954
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/azata/azata-gancanagh

>>44944623
>Wasn't Greta NE?

Yeah but the intention was that she'd turn Good after you give her the knot.

>>44944578
Regardless, would it be worth dipping Fighter not just for Intimidate but also for the extra feat?

>>44944668
>giving
>not taking
Anon, pls.

>>44944591
What do you want from it?

>>44944681
No. Fighter is terrible

>>44944316
In Pathfinder, the only demons that are allowed a bit of subtlety are succubi, so that'd be really strong. The party's deep into a campaign with a lot of NPCs allies, each with deep personalities and history, not to mention interactions with each other- then suddenly up and out of nowhere, 3/4s of them reveal that they're succubi.

>>44944567
>not offering to spare the son's life if the mother becomes your slave
I like the MILFs.

>>44944581
Shouldn't that be balanced against heroes having to make the tough choices? Do you save the crowd of people or the person you love? That stuff doesn't come up in any AP and as Hell's Rebels shows, the morality is clean and straight laced, Bad Guys BAD Good Guys GOOD.

Shouldn't that be reflected in the Evil AP? You may do some horrible things, but that should be offset by the glamour of serving the EVIL EMPIRE and the rewards that blind loyalty bring. No Good PC is ever made to feel bad by killing all the goblin babies in the monster lair.
And we don't know how obvious it could be. It may be a situation where you are ordered by a superior to do these things and you have little choice but to obey. After all, nothing is stopping the players from taking prisoners using non-lethal mean, they may be forced to do the killing in a catch 22.

>>44944698

Winter Wolf society is based around domination and violence, if you aren't dominating her in the bedroom she isn't going to respect you.

Unless you start holding her hand while doing it.

>>44944681
No. Not at all. I'd recommend not dipping, or building an Inquisitor instead.

Besides, Slayers make Fighter dips irrelevant now.

>>44944726
>Playing Hell's Rebels in your DM's Magical Realm
>They're all Transcubi

>>44944735

I fucking hope there's glitz and glamor for working with the Empire.

Otherwise what's the point? Evil is evil but as anyone who watches Star Wars can say, it's usually really cool.

>>44944746
Or just keeping a cool and smug face and looking her in the eyes the entire time.

Also, powerbottom is a thing.

>>44944809

>Not taking control halfway through
>Not letting her whine how "this can't be happening, I'm in charge here"
>Not letting her know you're a big guy for her
>Not knowing this was your master plan.

>>44944804
Before the EU was scrapped it wasn't so clear cut. Plus vader and a few of the cool sith got redeemed.

>>44944783
>transcubi
I don't get it. Are they just futa succubi?

>>44944892
Male succubi that identify as female and get triggered when straight people are not tempted by them.

>>44944892
Succubi are already futas though if they so choose.

>>44944892
>>44944783
Nah, it's silly nonsense. Demons probably don't have gender, but even if they do succubi wouldn't ever be trans because they can morph their body. If they felt like they were born in the wrong body, it's like a standard action to change it into whatever body they do want.

>>44944884

What about General Veers?