>You are a planeswalker.
>In the vast Multiverse, only you and some other chucklefucks know of the countless worlds beyond your own.
Welcome to the Magic: the Gathering Flavor General thread!
>Uncharted Realms Archive
>Savor the Flavor/Taste the Magic archive
>Current Status of Planeswalkers:
>Doug Beyer's Tumblr
Reminder: Keep bait, shitposting, and arguments to a minimum--try to focus on lore discussion. No snowflakes in the Wednesday thread. Ignore chandere posts.
We have an IRC for more conversational discussions and no small amount of fucking about: #mtgwaifulore on irc.rizon.net
Starter topic: This week's Official Magic Fiction is "Up in Flames," by Doug Beyer.
Why exactly does Chandra consider Jace a friend, anyway?
Chandra sorta met and got to know Jace last time on Zendikar, right? Dit they part on amicable terms after fighting Sarkhan, or not?
The 'thinks real hard to contact Jace' was hella cute tho
>Why exactly does Chandra consider Jace a friend, anyway?
Because like all neo-walkers Chandra and Jace don't understand normal human interaction so they believe that constant arguing is a basis for friendship.
Seems like Chandra cares a little too much about Gideon,
if you know what I'm saying.
Nissa shaking hands with Chandra was cute.
>Why exactly does Chandra consider Jace a friend, anyway?
Does she? I don't know much about the lore but I thought they were mortal enemies after Chandra burnt down Jace's family or something.
What are the Eldrazi color combos representative of?
They are devoid, and yet they require mountains to summon. Shit doesn't add up.
It seems like there are factions within the Eldrazi too, but to be honest I don't know what the logic is behind this either.
What are 'colored' Eldrazi about?
The pre-BFZ stories implied that jace knew her more after the events of RoE. They seemed pretty familiar during Jace and Gideon's visit.
Maybe it's just a planeswalker thing. Finding another like you is so uncommon that when you do, you can connect on a level that can't with most people.
The eldrazi are extraplanar beings that manifest their physical forms as sort of a mimicry of their physical planar surroundings. Eldrazi spawned near red mana sources will have similar traits.
There are more pure colorless eldrazi now due to the colored mana being drained out of Zendikar.
that's next wednesday.
Jace decides to approach Chandra to help with all the anxieties about sex he got from Liliana but ends up walking in on Chandra making out with Nissa while pegging Gideon.
That's exactly what's weird. In several of the Chandra BFZ stories, she's thought of Gideon and Jace as "my friends." But she didn't really part on good terms with either of them.
I could be wrong, but I think Jace and Chandra's first interaction was her stealing a scroll containing the magic/motions/words needed to cast Ghostfire from the Blind Consortium, which is the spell Ugin created to give form to the Eldrazi and actually harm them in the first place. She stole it because of reasons (I think she was asked to by the pyromancers on Kaladesh, who were given the scroll by Jaya a long time ago).
Jace went after her to Zendikar to get the scroll back, and both got kidnapped by Sarkhan and brought to the Eye of Ugin. They accidentally unlocked the seal on the Eldrazi prison in the course of their fight, and both just peaced out after seeing the Eldrazi pop out and start wrecking shit.
Gideon probably learned about Jace from his time on Ravnica (which is Jace's adopted home plane) and sought him out for help, taking a guess that Jace was a planeswalker because of how suddenly he'd disappear for days or even weeks at a time.
AFAIK, the only walkers that Jace hasn't met (or been confirmed to know about) are Elspeth, Koth, Karn, Xenegos, and Ajani.
He's met or knows about most of the others (he knows about Sorin and Nahiri from Ugin, but hasn't met them).
>They are devoid, and yet they require mountains to summon. Shit doesn't add up.
Devoid and Eldrazi with colored costs are 100% a game construct. Like how you can equip boots to a wall or have Gideon punch himself in the face. Devoid exists purely so that low-cost Eldrazi can exist without fucking over the mechanical color pie.
Hell, from a flavor perspective, it doesn't really make sense to be able to summon Eldrazi at all.
>AFAIK, the only walkers that Jace hasn't met (or been confirmed to know about) are Elspeth, Koth, Karn, Xenegos, and Ajani.
Venser, Tamiyo, Tibalt, Domri, Ashiok, and Narset, as well.
Forgot about them, which isn't surprising as they only have 1 PWer card printed so far, and those PWers were tied to various storylines of the last few sets (Venser and Koth to Mirrodin/New Phyrexia, Tamiyo and Tibalt to Innistrad, Domri to Ravnica, Ashiok and Xenagos to Theros, and Narset to Tarkir).
And before anyone asks, the only reason why Jace doesn't know about Domri is because Domri's part of the Gruul clan, and Domri's too busy exploring the multiverse, looking for new, primal planes like Naya was on Alara.
>I seem to remember her and Gideon kinda having a thing.
Gideon literally hunted her for a book for being a rebel. And while she wasn't burned to death in the executioners purifying fire, he never apologized. Those are some shitty terms.
>Hell, from a flavor perspective, it doesn't really make sense to be able to summon Eldrazi at all.
Tell that to Ob, who hard casted the actual Kozilek to the battlefield.
Mostly what happens is the more you fight the eldrazi, the more you understand a little about their warped line of thoughts, their alien behaivor, and more importantly to the game, how to make a mana replica of their freaky alien genotypes.
That's what you summon. A replica.
>That's what you summon. A replica.
Okay so is this Head-Canon tier, or am I seriously playing with (not) Golems made of Alien Ghosts that spilled mana all over their shirts?
It used to be up in the air, but these days I believe the idea that you're summoning a replica is, in fact, the standard.
Presumably an exception to this would be any creature with the Legendary supertype, which would in fact be the actual person.
Yeah but that's the whole point of Eldrazi
They're not artifacts
They're not lands
So then... what the fuck is THIS?
Now need I remind you, I am not talking about mechanics... We're all here to discuss FLAVOR. [/s]
Personally, I think Wastes mana is them trying to "cleanse" the land of the "corruption" that is colored mana and to turn it into the "pure" mana that they desire.
I think it was during Drana's UR (when she did her dive kick into the chest of a large Eldrazi to drain it's blood) that she got memories/emotions of the Eldrazi saying that the plane is "corrupted" and they want to make it "pure."
>Gideon literally hunted her for a book for being a rebel. And while she wasn't burned to death in the executioners purifying fire, he never apologized. Those are some shitty terms.
Are you implying that wotc is inconsistent with the story? You speak madness!
Eldrazi feast on mana and have been doing so for eternities. Their smallest sizes even work as mana-stimpacks. One can assume that they simply drain a land's living mana, meaning the color, and leave behind pure, dead mana as the residue. Colorless mana being dead and soulless would also explain why artifacts most often can only generate artificial, dead mana.
All that said, the Wastes would literally be Eldrazi poop. When an animal shits, the stuff that comes out is still organic, just processed into dung. Similar to humans not actually "using" their entire food, so do Eldrazi, digesting only the colored parts of mana.
Now, considering that Scions/Brood are small, animate mana pockets that are even consumed to feed other Eldrazi, ut's not a far stretch to think that the same applies to all Drones. Colored ones are just overfull of a certain color of mana and cannot process all of it (think Flamingos being pink because of eating so much of a certain pink crab) while the giants and Titans contain so much color of all kinds and have such a size that it resulted in them just being and remaining grey/colorless.
It's not headcanon, but actual canon fact. Legendary creatures aren't an exception to the rule, but rather you know that person personally so well that you can't make more than one of them.
It's like, a Boros Elite is a Boros Elite. There's dozens of hundreds of them. But there's only one Aurelia so that's all the Aurelia's you can manage to summon.
In fact, the only possible differences are elementals and such made out of elements since you actually did draw up the nearby ground or light the air on fire.
Zombies are a hilariously weird case in that they're canonically reanimated corpses, but the fancier ones
read: all the onesthat aren't 2/2 tokens, and possibly some that are.Might either be mana constructs or "special projects" you left at home that you ARE actually summoning. Artifacts are the same way.
I hate ship fags as much as the next guy, but I'd still love some sexual tension in the Gatewatch once Liliana joins.
>Jace trying to pretend there never was much between them
>Lilli teases him constantly by making moves on Mr. Stronk Gideon
>Jace in turn tries to make some moves on Chandra
>utterly fails to leave any impression other than awkward, cute nerd
>Lilli still ends up legit jealous
>meanwhile Nissa has some fun with her elementals
If they end up back together in bed though, it'll be consensual. Jace'll go back like any abused partner will. Also because sex with Lili is apparently just that good.
Hopefully she'll be a better person by then.
Chandra confirmed for being a glorious
qtbeacon of light and mana.
But becoming a better person requires admitting you ever did anything wrong to begin with, and that is something Liliana refuses to admit.
It's always someone else's fault with her.
I've never seen her claim someone else did something to her, save the Raven Man tricking her into killing her bro.
Everything else she admits she did, she just has no remorse about solving those problems through backstabbing.
>Dying now? Sell soul to demons.
>Fuck I want my soul back. Kill demons with veil.
>Fuck the veil is fucking me up. Time to go see what I can do about it.
>Why exactly does Chandra consider Jace a friend, anyway?
Who can say?
So Jace is heading to Innistrad next, right?
...How long before Lavinia manifests a spark just to drag his ass back to his office to do the paperwork that's been piling up while he's off playing Avengers with his pals?
The artbook said where the new superfriends were going. I think Jace is going to Innistrad to look for Sorin to figure out why the fuck he didn't show up to help defend Zendikar.
I believe Gideon and Chandra are going looking for Emrakul, and Nissa is going to make sure Zendikar can heal properly before joining Jace on Innistrad.
Wonder if that means the won't do the fucking obvious thing and have Emrakul be the Shadow over Innistrad. I kinda hope so, that interpretation's already gotten old and it would feel kinda cheap to do ANOTHER Eldrazi block immediately. Especially if they're just sacing Innistrad to Emrakul to up the stakes again after Ulamog and Kozilek bite it.
Still thinking maybe we're gonna see Ashiok again on Innistrad and he's responsible for the fuckery going down. They did say they consider Ashiok Jace's evil opposite number, so it'd make sense if the two of them have to duke it out sometime soon.
I'd assuming it's something like this. When planeswalking is so rare you probably feel at least some connection with anyone who's not lolevil like Nixilis. Chandra being red probably plays into it, too; red seems like the kind of color that would jump to "friends" pretty fast. Quick to anger, but potentially quick to forgive, as well. She works off of gut instinct, and it's pretty clear that Jace and Gideon aren't the bad guys in this scenario.
Guys, you're giving too much credit to the creative team.
>Doug: who cares happened before? They're all bestfriends now!! We finally can make a superhero team and cling from Marvel movies sucess!
>Kimberly: but what about Chandra and Jace, or Chandra with Gideon? Or what about Nissa being an elf hitler? And what abou–
>D: I said WHO CARES, what are you? Some kind of nerd from /tg/?! Now let me ignore my tumblr blog
Each article must be treated as an isolated instance. What's treated as canon in one article cannot be treated as canon in another. If something's relevant for an article, it will be brought up in that article. If it's not relevant in that article, it doesn't exist in the context of that article but might exist in another.
Continuity no longer exists in MtG lore.
Anon is just being dramatic. Wizards is pushing their story more and as a result they've been playing a little fast and loose with past continuity. Nissa's backstory is one notable example (previously they'd said she'd spent more time on Lorwyn and was an elf supremacist), and the point of contention in this thread is Chandra suddenly considering Jace and Gideon "friends" when they hadn't really been on good terms before.
Not that either of those is actually a huge deal, but this is 4chan and we have to whine.
>"Hold him, Jace! We've almost stopped the monster!"
>"Huh? Oh, jeez, I gotta take this, sorry guys. Hi, Lav–yes, I know we've got paperwork piling up, but there was a THING, and–oh, god, AGAIN? Ugh...just...stall for a bit. I'm really sorry, guys, there's stuff at work. I can't stick around."
>"WE'RE SAVING THE MULTIVERSE RIGHT NOW, JACE!"
>"Yeah, well, YOU guys don't have day jobs. Listen, I took care of this. I hired a substitute for when I'm not around for Gatewatch stuff!"
>"Gideon, Chandra, Nissa, this is Tammy. For all intents and purposes she is me for the next few days unless she fucks up. Later!"
Facts that were previously mentioned in articles released as little as a year ago are contradicted in one article, only to be acknowledged in the next. The strength of oldwalkers versus new, the capabilities of the Eldrazi, the personal histories of the separate Planeswalkers, etcetera.
It's going to lead Liliana to her grave though. She's going to have to fight Bolas and she's probably going to need Jace to help her. Let's be honest here, Jace is going to help her anyway because he has pretty deep feelings for her.
>Wizards trying to bury best ship
You can't hide what's inside, Wizards
I get the feeling they'd both be down for it in the right circumstances. Chandra strikes me as going both ways while I have trouble imagining Liliana has a problem getting randy with whoever's handy.
Jace would hear them doing it in his head, and would need to...go sit by himself for a while. And...think.
Think very hard. A lot.
Who even gives a shit at this point.
When you spend 10 years building a villain and have his plan be 90% cackling to himself and going "just as planned" everyone loses interest
OH HE'S GOT SOME MYSTERIOUS EGG THING FLOATING OVER HIS HEAD
Like seriously, who gives a shit.
Eugh every time someone reminds me of how they retconned Nissa I get mad. Especially how she went from accepting the teachings of the Lorwyn elves and experimenting with black mana, to being revolted by them killing boggarts. Like come on, she could have been such a cool villain exploring themes of racism and upbringing, but they changed her into "I love nature holy shit nature flows through me I'm the best". At least they kept her fuck up with releasing the eldrazi
>Spend 4 sets building up how fucking powerful the eldrazi are
>3 powerful ass oldwalkers could barely contain them
>Gideon could hardly take out drones
>But then 4 post mending walkers kill them
>Chandra killed both of them
The only way this could possibly be forgivable is if they accidentally set the titans free frp, Zendikar.
>Drana: Memories of Blood
>Kruphix: Kruphix's Insight
>Jace and Ral: Project Lightning Bug
>Tesya and Tajic: Family Values
Also, given how different Lorwyn elves and Zendikar elves look, wouldn't the Lorwyn elves have thought Nissa was a hideous freak and tried to kill her because she didn't look like them, not thought she was pretty?
Yes he's going to. He isn't keeping tabs on her. Well he probably is, but she doesn't work for him since the Infinite Consortium shit with Jace and Tezzeret, and even that was more as a "Thanks for finding me those demons that gave me my immortality back." than full servitude.
She isn't Bolas's. Not the way Tezzeret is or Sarkhan was.
I learned to expect nothing from the story, not even a bad twist, just... nothing. My dissapointment from the end of Oath left a void in me.
I guess kids like these kinds of stories? but is not like there are 25+ yo players that are the most invested in the game.
Teysa really interests me as a character.
Also as titty monster fap bait.Is it worth reading all three Ravnica books or is she only in two out of the three and then in UR posts?
I haven't read them but I heard they're pretty good.
is the best, bar none.
is good too.
Hey, we thought Ob was going to be a shitty out-of-nowhere thing before the UR came out and cleared some stuff up about how he regained his spark and became a badass. Let's have some patience to see exactly how the Gatewatch come to the their solution and its full implications. It might be retarded, but hopefully not.
We assume Ob was going to reignite his spark it was a matter of when. His story was left in a cliffhanger so it wasn't "out of nowhere".
>It might be retarded, but hopefully not.
I wish I was this optimistic, I've been dissapointed too much since we were promise more focus on the story than before.
It's better than "My name is Nissa Revane. I'm a native from this world and one of the last remaining [enter elf tribe here]. I'm also a planeswalker, like you, and I can speak to the planes' soul and their souls to me."
I'm talking about the first Zendikar block.
A loyal knight from an empire where the strong move up and the weak do not. Though destroying your rivals is to be expected, it is to be public, so everyone may know you put some upstart in their place. Though everyone is smart enough to scheme a bit, most of the time things happen seemingly on whims since everyone has a tendency to follow their gut and how they feel at the moment.
The empire is expansive, with castles and trade routes everywhere. Though knights join together in bands under their lords, they just as often simply move freely fro route to route, either patrolling or conquering for the empire.
Knights tend to care more about their circle of friends and comrades than the rest of the people at large. Vigilante justice is the norm with law enforcement simply doling out punishment when proper justice wasn't taken.The area is unforgiving landwise, with the Wheat and grain fields being the only sources of agriculture, and that's when it's not pure desert. Sure there's fruit in the darkland swamps, but it's dangerous to go in there. However, the mountains provide plenty of resources such as stone and metal. so industry is on the rise. Things can be nass produced, but often artisan's will take what they need and work on their "visions"instead. Naturally the great warriors of this land, the nobility are those that no longer need to eat food. The vampire's of this land are powerful warriors, day-walking vampires that lead and command their powerful armies of humans, goblins, zombies, and even other vampires to lay waste to their enemies. It is the vampires that create the true internal struggles. Many a civil war has been started where vampire lords warred against each other for the seat of emperor. None have succeeded in taking it from the ruling lord, who has sat that throne for 1,000 years.
Got bored, so I decided to try and spin up a White-focused rWb wedgeland, more like Alara's shard than Tarkir's clan
That does seem like it works pretty well.
Although it seems kinda a shame that RWB is almost certainly always gonna be the "war and vengeance" wedge. I mean, it's got the colors of self-actualization, empathy, and morality in there along with amorality, rage, and fear of the other.
BUG is the one I really have trouble finding a positive interpretation of. Zombies and Shoggoths are all that come to mind when I think of that wedge.
Jace will help her because Jace can't not help people. He helps everyone.
Given the last story between the two of them, I think "he has pretty deep feelings for her" is actually off the table.
>Given the last story between the two of them, I think "he has pretty deep feelings for her" is actually off the table.
You obviously didn't read the uncharted realms story. It's obvious and it's there, surprisingly from both sides.
I'm fine with Chanda, Lili, Nissa and even apsi-Jace but Gideon is a fucking tosser.
At least he isn't Karn though. Every major player attached to the weatherlight saga who isn't Volrath blows dicks.
There are at least three ur stories about her and Ashaya, at least 2 1/2 of those stories are her alone with it, think about it.
>Gatewatch comes to Theros as everything goes to hell again
>Gideon discovers Heliod sired him, and has since grown paranoid since discovering Elspeth that one day Gideon would come back to overthrow him
>Heliod strikes first, but the Gatewatch rally, leading to Gideon ascending to godhood but becoming plane-bound
>Liliana is on Theros looking to raise some super-zombies to fight another demon master. By sheer unlikely coincidence Elspeth makes her escape from the underworld and bursts out of the ground at the exact moment Liliana is getting ready to raise a fallen hero, leading Liliana to mistake Elspeth's return from death for her doing.
>Liliana wants Elspeth, as the "perfect undead," to be her minion, but Elspeth has other ideas, and as a result Liliana gets dragged along as Elspeth heads off, bumping into the Gatewatch, now down their white dude.
>One thing leads to another, and the group now has all five colors.
Plus, if need be, Jace can tag out with Tamiyo and the Gatewatch can magical girl it up as an all-female team from time to time.
"Catching Up" is precisely the story that I'm talking about. The one in which he sighs and goes along with it because he knows that she'll end up being more trouble if he is antagonistic to her, and then tells her to fuck herself and goes with Gideon instead.
>Mercury: Liliana (By process of elimination)
Nissa will point out she should be Moon and Tammy should be Mercury and Liliana should be Venus, but Tamiyo will shush her or bury her in questions about the moon.
They're good but extremely goofy. After I got over my magic book reading phase they were the only ones I bothered keeping. The third one turns into a kaiju movie for no goddamn reason but that's part of the charm.
Trying to get into this game and the only question I have so far is how exactly do these lands work? Can you just keep tapping this every turn to give yourself more mana or is it a one time deal? Sorry in advance if this is the wrong place to post questions like these.
It is the wrong thread, but we try not to be assholes here. It acts as a regular land should. It taps every turn for either W or B mana.
Do not confuse getting W mana with getting a plains card.
Most lands tap for mana. You pay a cost (tapping them) and are then paid with one mana, usually explained in the land's textbox. For instance, shambling vent would tap for white or black.
at the beginning of each turn, during your untap step, all permanents (creatures, lands, enchantments and planeswalkers) are untapped if they were tapped.
This lets lands become tapped for mana again that turn. Mana leaves your mana pool after each phase finishes (these phases being main phase 1, combat phase, and main phase 2) meaning you usually want to tap lands to pay for cards in hand, and for no other reason. Any questions?
Hey Lore thread, if pressed for an Oath like the oath's taken by the gatewatch, what would yours be?
Yeah I think I get it now. I thought at first it would add another land to your total, aka if you played this turn 1 and played an additional plain (in addition to shambling tap) every turn after that, by turn 4 you would have 7 total lands, which seemed broken as fuck. That situation would actually be 3 plains and either a plains or a swamp if I'm understanding it correctly now. Thanks to you and the other anon for clarifying.
no problem. Keep in mind that you're not adding a plains to your mana pool, but a white mana. Its mostly terminology, but it'll keep people playing with you from being confused by you using different terms than them.
"For the survival of all cultures within the multiverse, I will keep watch."
The black oath-taker will be Sorin or a new character, Liliana is slated to be an antagonist and her inclusion on the O5 is a red-herring. You can tell by how they retconned her origin from breaking the rules because she loved her brother and running away in shame for cursing him, to breaking the rules because her ego is massive and fighting his cursed corpse because she's power-tripping hard.
>You think Bolas is just going to let Liliana go off and play on her own without his direction?
Yes, Bolas knows the difference between alliances and puppetry, and Liliana is not his puppet, Tezzeret is.
Lilly does owe him and he may be able to influence her in a way that fucks the Gatewatch if she joins, puts her in a strong predicament if she becomes an anti-hero, or turns her into an actual threat if she stays a villainess. But she's not employed or loyal to him.
>Liliana is slated to be an antagonist and her inclusion on the O5 is a red-herring
So a bunch of speculation because you don't like Liliana, huh?
Because she clearly showed she cared for her brother quite a lot. It took a massive appeal to her ego to do what she did because she thought it would save her brother.
I'll admit I was skeptical for a while, but I'd love to see some Elspeth/Liliana interaction, especially with Lili ineffectively giving Elspeth orders.
Really the same kind of interaction Elspeth will have with Dack. The other tries to order her around and make grand statements and such, and Elspeth ignores them and gets shit done while saving them. A+ routine right there.
Also, Elspeth is a little different from the other planeswalkers in that she regularly does shit she'd rather not do for people she doesn't particularly like because it seems like the right thing to do.
So I could see Liliana being in way over her head with demons and junk and Elspeth pitching in to bail her out; not because she likes Liliana, because she doesn't, and not because she expects anything in return, because she knows better after a lifetime of getting shit on for doing the right thing, but simply because it felt wrong to just let her drown in the evil shit going on.
As for the most part black characters cannot into altruism I could see Liliana running through possible reasons why Elspeth is doing things she'd rather not for someone she doesn't like, (maybe she's just stupid? no...secret agenda? no...trying to make me be nicer? doesn't look like it...) conclude Elspeth must want to bone her silly, and be REALLY confused and a little insulted when that turns out to be wrong too.
Jace solo journeys to innistrad, the rest stay on Zendikar. Also, where the fuck is Ugin while they Avengers Assemble on Emrakul and kozilek?
I tried this once before khans and since khans wasn't the color plus it's enemies but a color pair plus it's common enemy, none of it was like mine.
>rWb Order through hedonism
Flamboyant arthuriana where lords take on mighty adventures and duel among themselfes for the adoration of their people, not so much because they care, but because the lords' power is based on his people's devotion.
>gUr Knowledge through wanderlust
A nation of explorers that doccument new panoramas, creatures and emotions, sharing them with their families through an emotional link. The families then bard about their explorer's adventures back home.
>wBg Power through natural selection.
Tribes that strive for apex fitness and power through the organized execution of the circle of life, hastened by necromancy and ressurection, and forcing creatures to "evolve" through mutation and fleshcrafting. Pretty much hi-fantasy Digimon.
>uRw Freedom through law
A leisure class of faggots playing artist/scientist thanks to the over-abundance of resources caused by high-taxing colonialism.
>bGu Fitness through self-superiority
Vampires playing Repo! Lots of surgery, vanity, smoke and mirrors.
I do like Liliana that's why I don't want to see her tagging with these losers.
Black walkers have always been the best, until a certain one took white for "hero" points and stopped doing shit.
We can start by not auto assigning based on the enemy pair. You're taking the enemy pair and adding the colors, the same as khans but in a different direction.
rWb would be white's goals, red and black's methods. So Order through action and opportunity. Not hedonism.
>Vampires in the clan centered in green that misses the fact that vamps are at their best in RB and WB
For what purpose?
And in general they all sound kind of boring. They lack Oomph. They'd make okay characters but not factions or settings.
Probably leading Emrakul to where they won't find her so they don't kill the last of his goldfish.
Ugin is a motherfucking dragon, there's reason enough to believe he didn't want the eldrazi destroyed just because he finds them endearing.
What I don't get is, is the fact that 2 Eldrazi titans getting killed by the Gatewatch on Zendikar just like a bad matchup in a game of Magic (e.g. BW warriors shitting on Esper Control)? Can the GW replicate the same feat if they manifested on another plane that didin't have leylines/hedrons like Theros?
Nah, sounds like this entire thing banked on Zendikar being the plane it happened on. One of those "wow, they pulled off something that should by all rights be completely impossible-but not to worry, it will never, ever work again so they can't just do that to the next bad guy."
All planes have leylines, but they'ed need a walker who can connect with the leylines of Theros like Nissa can connect with Zendikar and since there are none they'd be pretty fucked.
You already hit it on the head. They were given the tools needed to kill them. They just had to get their crap together enough to actually pull it off.
Fighting a threat that powerful on another plane prolly wouldn't go the same way unless there was already something lying around to stomp on it. And who would leave a doomsday weapon or a doomsday weapon level toolset lying around? Theros has a god with the knowledge to get such a toolset or weapon, but not the available means to readily always make it. Such a plan isn't going to be the way out every time.
I don't know if this was posted above, I didn't see it on my first pass through the thread.
The book listing/description for the Magic Art Book for Innistrad was put up, and it has some spoilers related to the story of things going on in Innistrad. I put it behind spoiler so people wouldn't have to read it.
Yes, i saw it on the MTG subreddit, so take this picture with a grain of salt. Or a whole truckload, whatever floats your boat.
For the sake of all the booty in the multiverse, I'll keep watch
I would say no. They required the leylines, along with somebody who could access them like Nissa can, on a mana-rich plane (and as far as Theros is concerned, no it is not the mana-rich kind you'd need), and they needed the hedron alignments.
In particular they needed the hedrons, and Ugin is/was the only one who knew how they work, along with Nahiri. Remember, Ugin flat-out told Sorin and Nahiri that they couldn't kill the Eldrazi with the hedrons, and he was talking out his ass (because he felt the Eldrazi were important to balance and wouldn't let them figure out how to kill the Eldrazi with the hedron network).
Just wait for them to reveal that Ugin's colorless powers come from him being a fourth titan and he needs the other 3 for his own good.
>Bolas was actually a misunderstood good guy
--EPISODE 06: BENEATH THE SURFACE--
>(sic)With Sea Gate in ruins, and two Eldrazi titans on the loose, Jori En and must will embark on a mission to help Kiora recover her powerful bident—a weapon of the gods that could the tide against the Eldrazi.
On today's "Cards I feel would be nicer in red" we have temporary land animation in the vein of Koth's + ability. This spell even grants the land haste, which is good just in case the land entered the battlefield on your turn.
>We will Endure
>Koth's ability greenshifted
>Nissa planeswalked away from Zendikar at some point during the eldrazi war
Nissa confirmed for walking away and landing straight onto New Phyrexia before deciding that she'd rather deal with Zendikar's problems.
KothXNissa as landwaking OTP. It saves both the joraga race and the vulshok at once, creating vulshok joraga hybrids to seed both worlds.
Chandra is going to fuck Jace raw tonight.
Gideon is going to go invincible/untouchable so that no one can disturb the nap he's about to take.
Meanwhile, Nissa's just happy she got to tattoo her logo onto the face of the plane.
>Everyone saves the day
>Looking smug in victory like in >>44921319
>Suddenly the sky rips open and several hundred Phyrexian ships rip into the plane
>Just then Elspeth pops in
>"Guys, I need to tell you something important"
>Everyone looks at her in disappointment
>"Oh, never mind"
Ulamog and Kozilek are not dead.
Sure they got their extradimnensional asses handed to them, and sure they took a fair hit in power level. They won't return to Zendikar, either because they won't because it burned them too badly, or some bullshit that they can't exist/manifest on that plane anymore.
But developing two villains with unique yet similar aesthetics and personalities just to kill them off immediately is bad business.
They'll be back in 5-7 years guaranteed.
I highly doubt it.
they are dead, they were/are already pretty much the most one-dimensional sort of villian anyways "rampaging multiversal cookie-monsters" doesn't really have alot of depth.
at best they serve some multiversal Anti-body purpose, but that doesn't make them deep.
I have had my fill of a lifetime, for Eldrazi shenanigans.
the fact we have one more to go is agony.
somehow, with only 3 set apperances, Eldrazi are more played out than Phyrexians are.
This is true.
>Oh no, Bismuth
>Oh no, ground chalk
There's only so many times these things can appear in an interesting way. Though they should have had the titans not completely manifested yet in RoE, so that when they showed up in full during these sets it would have been a truly "oh shit" moment.
It makes no sense both narratively and financially to get rid of two easily pick and place villains you've spent the last four+ years building up.
It also puts doubt in Ugin (the closest we have to a Big Good alongside Karn and Ajani) who to retrieve cost us a uniquely flavorful plane of Tarkir and any use of Sarkhan as interesting.
Why waste two villains and several unique planes and characters for... what, exactly? The Gatewatch? There are much easier ways to establish Magic Avengers that are cheaper, quicker, and make more sense.
Planeswalkers only assemble when shit truly goes down. The eldrazi are a good way to do that.
Ugin isn't a big good, he's a less asshole Nicol Bolas with his own plans. He wanted the eldrazi sealed to be studied, not killed and willingly withheld that information when he had two other psuedo-gods at his side.
Sarkhan is actually at his most interesting, and while DTK tore Tarkir a new anus, it guaranteed a return to Tarkir with a nice cathartic revenge block later on.
Karn and Ajani are definitely the goodest goods in the setting though
Additionally, Kozilek and Ulamog's gimmicks are now played out and no longer interesting.
"Oh no, the land is chalk, Ulamog's coming" is only interesting once or twice. No, I imagine that the key here is "got away Emrakul." who has a gimmick that hasn't been played yet, and has an unknown relationship with her "brothers."
There are more interesting things than Ulamog and Kozilek, Tarkir was ruined to give itself a story to continue, Sarkhan is by far at his most interesting, and we got Narset and an Ugin who can't see things from our perspective because he went from being an oldwalker to an immortal dragon that violates the barrier between matter and energy overnight.
Additionally, calling Ulamog and Kozilek "villains" are incorrect. They're more "forces" for the good guys to fight. Not much character beyond that. To put another way, Another appearance of Ulamog would just be a dry "Oh no, another hurricane."
>narset joins because she is bothered by the fact that the group had an odd number of members
But there's just so much waste. Why spend the effort, money, and man hours to design two unique aesthetics and personalities for these alien entities to just kill them off permanently in the same breath?
I'll give Tarkir a pass because the Khans can still return and Wizards thought we'd like DRAGONS better, but wasting two of the three Eldrazi is just stupid.
That's why planes like Ravnica, Innistrad, and Theros aren't destroyed- they're good baseline/simple concept planes that are the meat of the multiverse. Zendikar, unless they add in more bullshit, can never be Zendikar again. At least a trapped Titan would have kept the status quo.
As for Alara, another plane that got 'destroyed' by recombining, they're still safe because the entire plane isn't homogenized yet, and part of the fun if Alara is mixing and mashing together vastly different Shard themes.
Additionally, I want more Kozilek. He's bloody terrifying and actually evil, and killing him off is lame.
The fucker compressed trillions of years into NOW for Tazri, turned a guy inside out, unfurled a guy's tendons and arteries right in front of his eyes, all with barely a passing presence.
Kozilek is EVIL, and it's a shame to see such a petty Cthulhu wasted with hardly any exposure.
The thing is that those are settings. You can tell plenty of stories with settings. There's only so many times you can say "And then the eldrazi invaded." The aesthetic gets boring fast. Heell, the vampires and elves and goblins are more interesting to look at than the eldrazi at time. "Oh, another gross unspeakable horror. Neat."
>Zendikar will never be the same again.
Zendikar was always a wild civilization-less plane. And it's still filled with wild mana all over the place, plus now it has alien eldrazi mana as a part of it. It's still untamed land full of treasure and especially ruins now. Nothing's changed except there are a lot less everybody left.
>Terrifying and actually evil.
>That list of feats
Logically, the only one of those that he should have done was the first one. Emrakul's the one that warps flesh. So just sit down and wait for the real face of the eldrazi to show up.
Honestly if Elspeth wasn't dead and Tezzeret wasn't getting dragon fucked you could easily make an avengers team out of the Alara walkers, especially since Sarkhan isn't getting fucked by Bolas anymore. Include Koth and Karn because they have a relationship with Elspeth and Narset I guess because I assume she's still hanging with Sarkhan
Bolas can be Thanos
you cannot "build up" something forever.
we "built up" the Eldrazi for 5 fucking years, its over, its done, we have ONE left and she's the most interesting anyways.
did you HONESTLY expect Zendikar 2, to simply be "MORE building up of the Titans!"
Literally since it was made.
The difference is by your logic Scars block should have been more building up to New Phyrexia since it means wasting Mirrodin. Your argument reads like "What, the Mirran/Phyrexian war is already over and New Phyrexia won? Why hype something up when you're going to end it that fast?"
Sorin is being a contrarian and creates a rival Planeswalker guild and Jace isn't invited.
Calling it now.
Sorin will be running around trying to scoop up all the second rate Planeswalkers and Ugin, it'll be great.
Seems like she'd be a liability.
All four of the others would need to keep voting down "planning is hard, let's throw an octopus at it" and then she'll do it anyway.
To be fair, Ulamog is a hurricane. It's not really aware of the opposition as it devours.
KOZILEK, however, knows you're there, knows what you're thinking, and wants to fuck with you until you break.
We don't know what kind of personality Emrakul has.
Well, from what the artbook says, Kozilek and Ulamog's presence annihilates everything around them, but Emrakul MUTATES organic matter by being nearby. Might have something to do with it.
Eh, I prefer my theory that Ulamog is an overexcited dog, Kozilek is a toddler with a magnifying glass, and Emrakul is the mom that calls the exterminator.
We're the ants in this situation. We get trampled and burnt and killed any way, but it's the perspective/tons of the Eldrazi that matters.
From the Zendikar artbook, they permakill them. That's why a bunch of lorefags are upset, including me.
What an exquisite meme
You can use this creature's ability when he is in the graveyard, right?
I mean it makes sense, otherwise the card is a lot worse, but if the answer is "yes" what specifically makes it work?
For example I don't expect to use Dread Defiler's ability, but it doesn't have any reminder text about it either.
My bad, saw an mtg thread and had the question on my mind.
But what I am mostly curious about is when there is so much seemingly obvious text on cards, why is the exception to the rules not explicit on the card
Because the exception IS on the card.
You can't return it from your graveyard to your hand if it isn't in your graveyard.
Any ability that can be used in your graveyard will be worded like that. It's just not worth it to write out 'use this ability only when World Breaker is in the graveyard' when the ability only makes any kind of sense when it's in the graveyard. Same thing for abilities that discard from hand or anything like that - they don't say 'use this only if it's in your hand' because there's no other place it COULD be and still do that. Can't discard Secluded Steppe from your hand to cycle it if it's on the battlefield or in the graveyard or exiled or in your library still.
Wizards of the coast forgot about karn and the entire phyrexian conflict.
Sad days, maybe the super friends can go run around all the uninteresting planes they can think of.
because the things that don't have actual physical forms, that destroy worlds, and have been hyped up as being this Huge Fucking Deal for the past seven years or so were killed...by throwing a lot of fire at them.
The one where they didn't realize the nature of the Eldrazi until Ugin told them.
From that article
"We must find a way to destroy them," said Sorin.
"That may not be possible," said Ugin, "and it certainly isn't wise."
"You think you can imprison all of them?" asked Nahiri.
"All three, yes," said Ugin.
"Three?" said Sorin. "Update your field notes, dragon. We fought thousands."
"You fought extensions," said Ugin with an airy wave of his hand. "Mere organs of a larger being. There are three true Eldrazi loose in the Multiverse. In their absence, their brood will wither and die, as surely as a hand or a foot. We lure those three to one plane and trap them there."
epic meme, bro.
>In their absence, their brood will wither and die, as surely as a hand or foot.
...See, this is why it still confuses me that killing Ulamog and Kozilek doesn't do anything but scare their spawn.
It's pretty clear that WotC have changed a whole bunch of stuff to give the "founding" of the gatewatch a big capital V victory. It's just a shame they had to sacrifice everything cool and interesting about the eldrazi and ugin's interpretation of them to do it.
Maybe because they didn't fully kill the two of them? Maybe the group only fucked them up enough that they thought they were going to fucking die which sent the brood into a tizzy.
Of course, they might have killed the titans and the brood panicking will be followed by them withering or becoming like the vampires.
Emrakul creates fucked-up life in her surroundings, Kozilek warps pre-existing life beyond comprehension, and Ulamog devours everything around him until life can no longer exist.
Creation, Change, Destruction.
And the thing is, I'm fully fine with the Gatewatch winning, the Eldrazi losing, and Zendikar being safe for the foreseeable future.
But killing off two thirds of this threat that provides an easy antagonist, has had a lot of effort put into their aesthetic and themes, just for this is kinda shit.
And by the way Ugin is totally a Big Good, considering he's literally a mirror image of Nicol Bolas the Big Bad.
See >>44901214 and >>44899370
These fuckers retcon shit whenever they feel like it, their lore section should be called "OFFICAL INCONSISTENCY FICTION" or "UNCHARTED RETCONS" and Doug's blog should be titled "I ONLY REPOST LINKS NOW, FUCK YOUR QUESTIONS."
This was basically mfw I read the ending for Oath of the Superfriends.
I'm sure it was all according to plan
I mean everything "villainous" he did was in reaction to Mishra or someone else deciding to fuck something up
He was a very reactionary kind of asshole
The team winning at the end is fine. Killing 2 titans at the same is stupid , at least just kill Ulamog who was the most primal of the 3. I would love to see Zendikar destroyed but the plane has the land gimmick it fares well in polls.
>The gatewatch kills Ulamog with this tactic
>Kozilek recognizes it is at risk in this situation, and for the first time lowers itself to communicate with the inferior lifeforms it has been distorting.
>Kozilek says something foreshadowy but mostly shit-your-spine-out terrifying to the Gatewatch before taking its leave, providing the team a victory over one titan but one unaccounted for and one now very consciously bent on settling the score one day.
I mean from what Ugin said I thought killing them was just like cutting the toe off something that's really fucking huge.
The point of the hedron network was to pin them by said toe to Zendikar so they couldn't wander off to other planes.
And then in 7 years from now Kozilek rises from a yet unexplored plane while Emrakul is still missing. The 3 survivors of the original Gatewatch have returned, but this time they recruited more planeswalkers in order to defeat this threat that 10 years ago (in-game time) destroyed the plane known as Zendikar.
Better would be to speak through a noncultist native and then NOT horrendously warp them to bits.
Just...leave them desperately wanting to experience it again.
Especially if it was someone highly influential, like a military leader of some sort.
It'd be awesome if while it was "talking" its body was constantly warping and shifting just brutally. Bones crunching, shit like that, and the voice just continued. Like Kozilek doesn't give a shit about mouths and vocal cords.
I don't know if I like the idea of a titan giving an "I'll get you next time" speech, but a brief ominous message about finding planeswalkers curious wouldn't be too bad.
News flash: posterboy solves the problem, weather forecast at 11.
I dont even get what "drag the rest of them into Zendikar" means. Like the Titans didn't get bigger, new parts of their body didn't appear.
I love Zendikar but can you imagine if this second set involved just that. Ulamog and Kozilek's toe bits are obviously big but through this little stunt they do manage to pull larger bits onto Zendikar
And instead of something as big as a mountain to kill the entire sky is filled with the mind fucking horror that is Kozilek and Ulamog's full form as eldrazi shit just rains down from the sky
>"We did it..." Jace breathed, scarcely daring to believe it as the charred form of Ulamog crumbled.
>"Don't relax. Where's the other one?" Gideon muttered, looking around. The second titan had blocked out the sun before, but now it was...gone? Gideon stopped when he saw a Kor woman floating a couple inches off the ground, staring at the four of them with her face oddly blank.
>"Kytheon Iora," she said, her voice both a whisper in Gideon's ear and a scream from miles away. "Hieromancer. Origin: Theros." One of her eyes burst like a grape as a larger, lidless eye pushed out behind it to stare at him.
>Before Gideon could react, the woman's neck snapped and twisted loudly to turn her head impossibly far to face Nissa, who recoiled as the broken neck suddenly became long and snakelike.
>"Nissa Revane. Animist. Origin: Zendikar." She muttered in the same strange voice. Chandra hurled a fireball at the Kor woman, only for her to blink out of sight and reappear behind Chandra.
>"Chandra Nalaar. Pyromancer. Origin: Kaladesh." She remarked, sounding almost bored as one arm seemed to wither and twist in on itself until it was a strange knot of skin with bony spikes protruding.
>Jace hesitantly reached out to the Kor's mind, but withdrew quickly as he felt a horrible, perverse pleasure eminating from it. Even so, the Kor turned to him next, aging rapidly into a hag before suddenly regenerating into a young girl, unmarred.
>"Jace Beleren. Telepath. Origin...oh, my." The kor, now a little girl, actually giggled. "You don't know. But I do."
>Jace kept his mind shielded, but even so, that horrible sense of glee beat down on him once more...before the little girl's lips parted in a smile that split her head in half, teeth from hundreds of different animals forming a grin too big for her skull.
>"Fascinating." A deeper voice spoke this time, and the force of it ripped the body apart from the inside. The grin lingered in the viscera for a second before vanishing.
Or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvrIFIjTGt0, though Kozilek's should be a little more obtuse and unintelligible. I imagine Kozilek/his avatar speaking like the Weaver from Perdido Street Station, if anyone's ever read that
>I love Zendikar but can you imagine if this second set involved just that. Ulamog and Kozilek's toe bits are obviously big but through this little stunt they do manage to pull larger bits onto Zendikar
The eldrazi in the blind eternities are no set size. The first time around Ugin and his minions bound the eldrazi to a 3d body, then sealed them, locking them to Zendikar like the anchors to a Xdimensional boat.
Jace and co theorized the hedrons could put the entire eldrazi into the 3d bodies. Which they could and did, making them vulnerable.
Yeah, I feel like Kozilek's voice would be similar to Sovereign's in how intimidating it is but I feel like the Eldrazi's voice would be either a creepy ethereal legion or something...distressingly organic.
Accepting most of this into headcanon, except having Ulamog survive but majorly weakened.
Although to be completely honest, this is how it should have gone down. Kozilek realizes what's happening and nopes out of there, Ulamog is too dumb to realize their stupid plot, he gets like half pulled into Zendikar, his exposed bits are burned until he flees, and Zendikar is free of Eldrazi until a possible final confrontation.
Then Eldrazi presence post OftG would be:
Ulamog: Weakened and 'scared', fucked off to who knows where
Kozilek: Still at his full power, but now 1. looking to actively harm the homes of those that hurt his brother, and 2. planning to be MUCH more discreet on the next plane he goes to (Vryn obviously)
Emrakul: Nobody knows where she is and/or she's the Shadow over Innistrad, but she dwarfs her brothers to such an extent that it'll take a lot of work to concentrate her influence enough to weaken/kill her.
Then we'd have an injured puppy looking for revenge, a spiteful child learning about ants, and chillingly missing mother while we rebuild our anthills and wait for one of them to strike again..
This is what happens in the Actual Multiverse.
What Wizards ends up putting down is just an alternate reality caused by Kozilek's leaving Zendikar to make the Gatewatch think they won.
>Chandra and Jace happen to come upon Kozilek together when they find it again, getting ready to do the best they can with mind magic and flames as one of Kozilek's puppets turns toward them.
>"I have...a gift for you."
>Chandra gets caught in a distortion that briefly forces her to experience what it felt like from Ulamog's perspective when she channeled all of Zendikar's mana to immolate it
>Jace gets his full memories back. And the memories of everyone on Vryn. Simultaneously.
>Kozilek knew Jace wouldn't think to search for it there. It took its time with the plane.
>mfw Urza returns as the new Father of Machines
It really fucks my shit up trying to comprehend that dominaria had electricity and shit and they used swords. A machine gun would really fuck shit up compared to a sword and probably give you vigilance and first strike.
>you cant kill them says ugin
>if you get rid of them their spawn will shrivel up and disapear
>in the future visions of tazri the spawn stay behind when the titans leave
They did EXACTLY what ugin said not to, they fucking spooked them off.
>Urza's head attached to the body of a Negator
>unifies New Phyrexia
>Takes Venser's body and uses his brain to make Plane traversing ships
In tabletop RPGs the strongest heros have no family to love, land to protect, or friends to lose. They wander the lands murdering anything that gets in their way and at the end of the day slaying the lich that was raping all those orphans. People on this board them murderhobos because of this.
Oh, I knew that, I was just kind of confused as to why.
Jund seems more murderhobo colors to me. They do it because they want to, for profit and because they can. is definitely more Jund than Grixis, which has an underlying "trying to learn something or set up thousand year plans" undercurrent to it.
1. I'm not attacking the card, I said I wanted something like it in red. Stop being so defensive.
2. It being Koth's + ability means it's iconic enough in red to be a constant thing you can do.
3. If you really want something to argue, then it feels a tad more red because of the haste and end of turn clauses. I think the green version should not grant haste
not like the haste is relevant anywaybut it does let the land stick around after the end of turn.
Do they? They knew Tezzeret was one, but I remember nothing about them ever meeting Venser enough to say "That's a planeswalker." Even then, there's more interesting things about him to study than some interplanar ship plans that don't even work anyway because that's not how the multiverse works anymore.
They'd probably prefer dissecting the body for flaying in hopes of finding a planeswalking organ.
If they could study his nonliving mind, which I don't think has been done in magic, ever, they'd just get to the same conclusions that he did, and phyrexians lack creativity, with the exception of the now-defunct, red ones most likely.
Urza was grixis and he saved the multiverse from phyrexia, even if it took using a creature that can create planes as a battery for his nukes
Tetsuo umezawa liberated his clan and village on dominaria from bolas's admittedly asshole vengeance fueled grip he had on them
Bolas is saving the multiverse from ugin. Ugin wanted to help the eldrazi and hindered all those who would assist him. He drove a neowalker from a divergent timeline insane to create a custom made get out of death free card, subjugating an entire plane's sentient population and driving several races extinct, just to win a walker duel. Teferi didnt throw tolaria at bolas as a last ditch effort to buy a few more seconds of life.
I didn't say Grixis was automatically super evil, just that it doesn't really fit the murder-hobo mindset of go in-crush shit, leave to hobo. There's no scheming, even the good kind of scheming. Plans are short term at best, which drives blue up the wall for being such erratic fucknuggets.
Murderhoboing is basically all that Jund is about, while Grixis has people in charge that lead dark armies with iron fists and scheme and plot against each other. Technically you can be a wandering warrior in grixis, but to grixis, it's more important to do so efficiently.
Also, Urza was everything but green. He died before he got to green so green, disappointed, reincarnated it's own Urza to not be left out. We know this as
On a planeswalker scale, grixis is murderhoboing. You set a plane on fire when they stop giving you mana and marry a QT monster girl when you get bored of killing everything. If anything jund is the mentality of the wandering mob of beastmen. Jund kills and eats.
>An illogical tradition that serves no purpose anymore
That's green mate. Or white. Remember, blue is the color of knowledge. But it is also the color of fedora tipping comments.
Green, while "nature" is also the color of tradition and the ways being they are because they are.
In the murder hobo model, red is "because I want to" and Black is "for profit." Green is "Because that's how the world works." Bad people do things you don't like (red), and you beat the shit out of them because you're strong enough to do so (green), then kill them for profit (black)
Blue would instead be a "Bad people do stuff you don't like (red), so you enact a plan to stop them from doing it ever again (blue), and you will see this plan through by any means necessary (black)
Murderhoboing is greens now, vs blue's tomorrow.