What is it with elves being immune to ghoul paralysis in earlier

>>44893810
thats a good question

>>44893810
IIRC, it was a simple balance issue left over from the days of Chainmail. Or at least that's what I've been told. The reason it seems odd is that the world is so big with so many monsters that why would you bother with something so specific and small. But if the world weren't as big, and there were a lot fewer monster-types you had come up with, it makes more sense.

>>44893810
elves were op back then

>>44893810
I can think of three possibilities off-hand:
1. Elves are supposed to be agile and graceful. (See: Dex bonus) So the immunity might fit with that.
2. Elves are supposed to be the 'nature-y' race, and undead in most (all?) D&D settings are perverse deviations from the natural order, so that could explain it.
3. Elves are just better than you. Like how the Con-penalty race lives so much longer than a human, some shit just doesn't make sense on examination. That's why it got cut in later editions.

That feel when you're jealous of an anime girl's luscious locks.

>>44893810
I think it was a setting thing with the ghoul god and the elf god being on relatively good terms with each-other for some reason.

>>44893810
I remember reading somewhere that because early D&D Elves were inherently good they had innate resistance to evil effects.

>>44893937
So like in Lord of the Rings.

Though it does bear the question of, if that is the case, why elves aren't equally immune to ghosts, vampires, liches, demons or orcs.

File: alignments OD&D.jpg (58KB, 540x636px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 540x636px

>>44893937
I'm not sure that's the case.

>>44893810
It's a holdover from Chainmail. Elves were given the immunity to keep them from getting their high cost units zerged by low cost Ghouls. Gygax later fluffed it is Elves being "full of positive energy" and thus immune to the negative energy of Ghouls. It's been around ever since.

Just decided to roll a character, 6*3d6 in order.

Str 13
Dex 13
Con 9
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 18

Interesting ideas?

>>44894102
you know i have never auctualy read the chainmail rules does anybody have a copy

>>44894087
> race: evil high priests

>>44894105
dont use fucking roled stats would be a great place to start
there fucking cancer

>>44894118
Given that this is explicitly an OD&D discussion I don't think "don't play D&D" is a relevant argument in here

>>44894118
>there

If Gygax lists John Carter of Mars as one of the major inspirations for D&D, right alongside Conan and the Lord of the Rings, how come the game involves so many Conan-esque heroes, elves and balrogs, but has no radium pistols, airships or white martians?

It was, as said above, a balance tweak. But if you're concerned about fluff justifications I think it makes sense as part of the package of weird exemptions an elf gets - can't be paralysed, can't be resurrected, doesn't need to sleep. They're fay creatures that outwardly resemble humans but are in fact a wholly different form of life - what's surprising is that they should be vulnerable to so many ailments that affect humans.

>>44894235
He didn't say "don't play D&D," he said don't use rolled stats, because they're dumb.

>>44894266
But they're an integral part of the OD&D experience, just like elf as a class and THAC0.

>>44893810
It's not in either edition of AD&D, it got replaced by 90% immunity to sleep and charm spells, which is a much more useful ability.

>>44894105
Not too bad stats for an Illusionist. Or take a +DEX race and play a Thief.

>>44894252
Gammaworld Anon, its all in Gammaworld

>>44894118
Yeah, use point buy to unnaturally and unrealistically optimize like the gamegrinder you know your GM would want you to be.

>>44894105
Nice rolls by the way. Cha is expecially favourited by Paladins, Sorcerers and Bards. You might be a bit low on STR and CON for a Paladin, but maybe if it was a Dwarf it could work nicely.
Otherwise Sorc or Bard, both like having some at least decent Dex and Int and a fuckhueg Cha.

>>44894339
Actually, he's low in WIS for a Paladin. Pallys need 12 STR, 9 CON, 13 WIS, and 17 CHA.

>>44894360
Whoops, my bad!

>>44894339
>>44894360
Yup. And given the average INT, it's pretty much only Bard material.

Of course, using OD&D rules you have no choice other than being a fighter and:
A. Be a Paladin, since the 1975 Greyhawk supplement only lists 17 Charisma as a prerequisite.
B. Get an army of hirelings since that's Charisma's only use int hat game. IIRC, they didn't even have reaction rolls back then.

>>44894373
He does qualify for Bard (D 12, I 13, Ch 15) and Enchanter (I 9, Ch 16), though.

>>44894105

Noble courtier

>>44894272
well you may have a point there i suppose

>>44894087
There are many things that upset me about this image.

>>44894694
Like what?

>>44894694
Alignment was serious business back then.

>>44893966
How would one be immune to orcs? In specific, that is.

>>44894912
Orcs don't attack you?

>>44894912
>>44895360
You could be an honorary orc or something. Diplomatic ties.

>>44894252
>white martians
But that's wrong, anon.

Also, there's little bits like Phantasmal Forces. It's more it being an inspiration in general, though, much like most of Appendix N.

>>44894272
>just like elf as a class and THAC0.
Your B/X/2E is showing.

>>44894388
>B. Get an army of hirelings since that's Charisma's only use int hat game. IIRC, they didn't even have reaction rolls back then.
Reaction rolls are a thing, but charisma doesn't affect them. It does affect the loyalty roll, though, which translates into probably better morale.

>>44894117
All it's saying is that name-level Clerics are Law while name-level Anti-Clerics are Chaos, anon.
It's not even entitles "race" or anything, it's just talking about "character types".

>>44895637
THAC0 is 1e, anon. It's originally Dragon material.

>>44894105
This is a great Elf stat line, actually. 9 Con won't give you a HP penalty, and 13 in Str and Dex *will* boost your combat stats. Along with that, you qualify for the prime requisite XP bonus, and your top Cha means you can have many and loyal retainers, further protecting you.

>>44895637
>Morale checks

Gods I forgot about those. Did anybody have a DM that tried to apply them to PC's?

>>44895664
Yeah, but you'll stop advancing as a level 4 Fighting Man and level 8 Magic User. Unless you choose to be a Thief, too, then you could continue advancing in that forever if you're okay with getting a pitiful amount of XP from everything forever.

>>44894118
You're a wonderful example of what point-buy players are like.

>>44894252
There was fucktons of it in OD&D, actually. The "White Apes" are a direct import from the Carter books, and the encounter tables also list thoats and green martians IIRC. In Gygax's home game, they did have the occasional raygun, and one guy planned at one point to shoot himself to Barsoom with a giant catapult.

>>44895703
I meant the Basic Elf class. And nobody uses level limits anyway. (Although I admit that for by-the-book OD&D you're totally correct.)

>Unless you choose to be a Thief, too, then you could continue advancing in that forever if you're okay with getting a pitiful amount of XP from everything forever.
Except this, I think. I'm pretty sure straight OD&D obliges you to choose which class each adventure's XP goes into, and Greyhawk (featuring the Thief) expects the XP to be split equally among all classes that can actually advance. So once you're out of fighter and M-U levels, you just advance as any Thief.

>>44895754
Nobody uses level limits because if you're playing by the book you'll never get past level 1 due to the absurd deadliness, and if you're not playing by the book you'll discard that rule as stupid.

>>44895772
>Nobody uses level limits because if you're playing by the book you'll never get past level 1 due to the absurd deadliness
Damn! I gotta call my group and let them know the past year was an illusion! Thanks, Philip K. Dick!

>>44895653
Still not OD&D, anon. (Not to mention how AC0 didn't even show up in force until AD&D.)

>>44895682
I'd hope not. They're meant for monsters and hirelings, NPCs, not player characters - you'd expect the players to figure out when to run away themselves!

>>44895772
You know that GP=XP and fighting is a fool's game, right?
Also, seriously, those treasure tables are so generous that getting the 1500-2500XP to level two isn't exactly difficult.

Not to mention if you use a strategy they apparently used at Gygax' table once upon a time, which was to give all the gold to the Cleric so he could level up to level 2 and get them some healing.

>>44895899
>Still not OD&D, anon
But that's a good thing, anon.

So on the subject of older Editions, who else is a Mystara fan? It's my second favorite D&D setting

>>44895921
Which version of the Savage Coast do you prefer?

>>44895772
>>44895899
Also, congratulations on taking away the one reason to play a human, anon.

>>44895905
OD&D proper has the to-hit table set up so that you can literally never be unable to hit someone. I'll take that over Greyhawk/AD&D's number inflation any day.

>>44895921
Mystara's pretty damn great. It's just a shame how TSR shat all over it with metaplot towards the end.

I actually liked the Immortals set, believe it or not, although I understand why they had a hard time writing adventures for it.

>>44895941
>muh number inflation
Hue.

>>44895932
The older version. I'm not that familiar with the reboot

>>44895941
>I actually liked the Immortals set, believe it or not, although I understand why they had a hard time writing adventures for it.

It was a good concept, the execution was a bit lacking though. Having your PCs be Heroic demigods trying to fight off other demigods is cool as shit

>>44895955
In OD&D, the best "AC" anything can have is -1, from a +3 plate and shield. (It's technically not your AC on account of AC being static and magic armor just subtracting from attack rolls, but you get what I mean.)

In Greyhawk, the best "AC" you can get is -8.

One of these things is not like the other.


Then again, that's the same supplement that introduced percentual strength, the Thief, variable hit dice and weapon damage, 7th-9th level spells, no-save spells, and Intelligence affecting spells known.
So fuck that supplement.

>>44896039
Yeah, it's Jack Kirby as fuck and I kind of love it.
It's just really bizarre and I'm having a hard time thinking of ways to let them adventure that aren't just "sneak around on the Prime pretending to be an adventurer/boss monster/puppeteering vizier".

>>44893810
Alright ya'll listen up it's fucking time to learn.

Long long time ago in a land of i don't really know anymore the first ghoul was created through fuckery of some sort or maybe some necromancer dick cursed elves or soemthing.

Turns out the first ghoul was an elf, that for some reason made the others not effected by it's ghoulish paralysis thing.

The answer is because their elves.

>>44894912
Special anti rape orfices

>>44896011
It's not actually a reboot. The official history is X9, Tortles of the Purple Sage, Champions of Mystara (or the Dragon articles it's created from), then Red Steel/Savage Coast.

>>44896061
The Immortals adventures I saw were basically superhero adventures from the Silver Age.

>The immortal Mage Nastius is designing a spell that will absorb the souls of an entire continent to power his planet-sized robot! You must travel through space to his moonbase and stop his evil plans!

I made that one up, but that's what most of them were like.

>>44896146
I'll have to see if I can find a PDF then. I didn't pay attention to most of second ed

>>44896061
What's it like being trapped in 1974?

>>44894339
>Yeah, use point buy to unnaturally and unrealistically optimize like the gamegrinder you know your GM would want you to be.
But I am the gm

Besides my players don't need stats to be hugely powerful I tend to give free feats up the wazoo.

File: 2521A Atlas of the Savage Coast.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>44896167
Gimme some time (4 posts), and I'll toss up the SC stuff. I can't put up the RS stuff, because it's got audio CDs that go with it.

>>44896192
Which is actually kind of unfortunate (much like this cover art), as the RS stuff is actually a pair of nice box sets, with poster maps and all.

File: 2521B Characters of the Savage Coast.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>44896233
God dammit.

Anyway, this SC stuff is actually a set of fan-made pdfs, because it was originally released as a set of rtf and image files.

File: 2521C Adventures on the Savage Coast.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>44896275

File: 2522 or 9501 Orc's Head Peninsula.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>44896289

File: 2524 Savage Coast Monstrous Compendium Appendix.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>44896302

>>44896192
>>44896233
>>44896275
>>44896289
>>44896302
>>44896316

I love you

File: THAC0's first appearance (Mentzer).png (25KB, 1006x560px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 1006x560px

>>44895653
>>44895637

>>44896511
It's in one of the Dragon issues as well, I believe. I don't think the Dragon issue was before '80, though.

>>44896511
Of course, the 1e DMG, which came out in what? -- '79? -- contains a stat in the monster table that is THAC0 in everything but acronym: "To-Hit A.C. 0".

>>44895458
>barbaric, savage orcs
>diplomatic ties

choose one.

>>44896676
Actually, I choose both.

>>44896624
It's worth noting, though, that THAC0 doesn't quite cover the DMG tables - the "repeating 20s" are something that kind of get lost when you simplify the tables to a single number, for example. Close enough most of the time, though.

I totally get why some people prefer BAB and proficiency bonuses and the like, though - it's better than just the raw THAC0 number, that's for sure!