How do I stat lolis (as a playable race) in Pathfinder ? In particular, how much charisma ?
This is a very real and serious question to determine if yes or no our PC with CHA 14 could be one.
>PC with CHA 14
That's a little low for a loli, don't you think? I guess she's one of those obnoxious, bratty younger sisters of the main love interest rather than a properly smug or ancient loli
>implying lolis don't have charisma for days
Children are, for the most part, worse than adults at everything. They're weaker (STR), have slower reflexes (DEX), can take less damage/have weaker immune systems (CON), less capable of processing/contextualizing new information (INT), have no common sense whatsoever (WIS), and are less persuasive and generally don't have a sense of self yet (CHA).
Unless you're playing a supernatural race, you're just begging to be hamstringed in literally everything, save for having a bonus to stealth and shit for being small.
In THAT case, they're just as capable as adults unless it's humorous/endearing for them to fall short thanks to their size/inexperience.
Also, odds are that they're also deceptively strong (as proven by wielding oversized weaponry or having an atomic-level tantrum that levels everything around them) or have some secret power that makes them capable of destroying the Average Joe who decides to underestimate them.
Maybe give them the ability to wield oversized weaponry intended for creatures up to two size brackets larger than themselves (i.e. can wield a Large Sized creature's weapon with no penalty).
When it comes to young characters I normally say don't bother with stat penalties or bonuses, beyond what normally comes from small size.
I just try and arrange the stats to something that fits the idea of the character and isn't SoD breaking for the themes of the game
CHAwise, I'd say 14 is fine, CHA is force of personality and sense of self and age really doesn't affect that too much unless it's really young
In that case my point still stands, build something that fits the character and CHA isn't really affected by age
>less capable of processing/contextualizing new information (INT)
I'd say their weakness in Int is more that they lack the depth of background knowledge needed as a foundation for higher learning. Children are absolutely fantastic at learning shit, they just haven't learned enough yet to use what they know for adult-level applications.
Alright, so far this is what I've got :
Type : Fey (hey, lolis can do shit whenever it's comical for them to do so, I'd say they're not entirely of this world).
Size : Small
Speed : Normal
+4 CHA, -2 CON, -2 SAG
Speaks Common, can speak Aklo, Celestial, Abyssal, Infernal, Dwarven, Elven and Gnome.
And then I got 9 RP to spend (I'm trying to make them tiefling-level), and so I think I'll just go with packages depending on what kind of loli it is. For example :
Moeblob : +4 CHA.
Magical girl : Change shape (magical girl form), dreamspeaker, lightbringer, true strike and protection from evil as spell-like abilities.
And I was thinking about a heroine type that can wield oversized weapon as >>44880774 suggested.
This. A humans Int score probably goes down with age while wisdom goes up. Until a certain age where it tends to start dropping off again.
Its like a level 10 human with +1 Int vs a level 1 human with +5 Int. The level one gets more skills per level, but he simply hasn't had the time to accumulate said levels
Explain me why would they be a 'playable race'. They're children, not a race.
Anyway, here. They should get a -4 STR and CON because they're small and weak, -2 DEX because they're still underdeveloped and consequently lack proper coordination, -2 WIS because they're children, they're the antithesis of wise, and finally -4 CHA or worse, since they still haven't developed their personality, surely lack assertivity and are malleable as butter, lack some degrees of emphaty since they still aren't able to understand the entire emotional spectrum and much less how adults express it, and finally, children won't be taken seriously by adults in any way. INT may stay with no modifier.
They should have less skills and feats since they clearly have had less time to develop them, but you may skip over this part if they're meant to be all child geniuses.
No bonuses from being of 'small' size because they're just short and puny.
Yes, it's an all-disadvantages stat block, but what did you expect? There's no reason children should be on advantage on adults on any aspect.
Oh, and most importantly, if somebody says 'Just use gnome/halfling statblocks', ignore them. Just because they're the same size there's no reason why they would have the same levels of physical and mental developement of an adult of another race.
>more about the archetype of the loli in japanese anime
Small Sized creature.
+4 CHA (they're cute and know how to use it to their advantage)
+2 WIS, INT, or STR (a loli who is a main character is unusually good at something for gap moe and humor)
-4 CON (they're tiny and easily get sick or hurt because it makes you want to take care of them)
Lolis with a STR bonus can wield weapons sized for Medium Sized creatures without a penalty.
PF has official rules for playing as a child
That being said, you would need to get the DM to allow you to play anything but the NPC classes. Otherwise, you are stuck with a generally usesless character. It would make more sense if the loli was a class that didn't have a higher than normal starting age, like Sorcerer for example.
>Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.
The cuteness of everything they do is overpowering, like the force of a strong personality.
People are drawn to them because they're cute.
>ability to lead
People can't help but do what they ask because they're too cute to disappoint.
Did I mention them being cute?
No one said anything about pleasuring themselves to little girls, just playing as one
Got the thief. Neat.
Now to teach her a lesson for trying to pick my pockets.
Why do you want to play what amounts to a little girl? Also, why do you find it necessary to use the sexual term for little girls instead of just "I want to play a little anime girl help me stat one".
Your entire point was 'They are cute'. Explain me how any of the Charisma-based powers of Paladins would be improved by it's wielder's cuteness, just to mention one.
Charisma measures first of all a character's personality, their self-confidence, their determination and the strenght of their principles. Personal magnetism is a consequence of personality, so just because 'being cute might draw SOME people towards you' that doesn't mean cuteness may replace personality. Cuteness doesn't come in bundle with the ability to lead, either.
And for the 'appearence' bit, as well as your interpretation of 'magnetism' and everything else you got from 'cuteness': it might surprise you, but most people will find much more attractive a physically developed girl or woman (or boy or man depending on gender and orientation) rather than a child. It doesn't matter how hard you try to normalize your thinly veiled pedophilia, it's not normal. Fucking ELVES won't get a Charisma bonus for being attractive, why would a CHILD?
Also you deeply disgust me and I hope you explode.
For real though, this is what you need to do if you want to play as a loli
Demon Busters. Have fun.
start a caravanwith her
Good GMing habit threads have been beaten to death at this point
Are you purposely ignoring the fact that this is about the loli archetype and not real girls, or did you miss it? Not to mention you're not addressing the second, very important, part of them knowing how to use it to their advantage. In anime lolis are cute and can use this fact to their advantage to make people do what they want. That's charisma.
>This is a very real and serious question
Dunno, when Jesus was born he was so charismatic even kings/wise men kneeled before him and he couldn't even talk.
And people often forget that Jesus even as an adult was a hobo and not the cool and clean Jesus that the Cristo Redentor may lead people to believe
>Handle Animal checks are based on your ability to use cuteness to your advantage
>Intimidate checks are based on your ability to use cuteness to your advantage
>Use Magic Device checks are based on your ability to use cuteness to your advantage
>Cleric's Channel Energy is based on your ability to use cuteness to your advantage
>Paladin's Smite is based on your ability to use cuteness to your advantage
>Paladin's bonus to saves is based on your ability to use cuteness to your advantage
>Paladin's spells are based on your ability to use cuteness to your advantage
>Sorcerer's spells are based on your ability to use cuteness to your advantage
>Pic related's score in the ability to use cuteness to your advantage is 21
It's a common trope that have a character so charismatic/cool/powerful/all at once that even Jesus would look like a hobo in comparison.
It's something quite common in fiction but it's particulary mishandled in anime.
And that's why OP is treating loli as a separate race and not as children, because given the shit they can do/pull, they make the "I'm a 1000 y.o. demon" meme actually believable.
Of course you can have realistic loli like Yotsuba but they're not the kind you'd see in something action related.
I'd treat it as a perk/trait instead so it could be used in tandem with other races without resorting to awkward workarounds like half-dwarf-half-loli and half-warforged-half-loli.
Then they become unplayable, and that's a dick move as a DM, the correct response is to either flat tell the PC they aren't allowed to play one or work with the PC to make a child character that isn't unplayable
Trying to make the character so weak they're unplayable simply because you don't like the player's concept is a dick ass passive aggressive move and unbecoming of a DM,
>PF has official rules for playing as a child
Honestly, I'd say ignore those, it's unplayable, and instead try and work with the DM to make a character that fits your concept
>It would make more sense if the loli was a class that didn't have a higher than normal starting age, like Sorcerer for example.
This works though
>Why do you want to play what amounts to a little girl?
It can be fun to play odd things
>Also, why do you find it necessary to use the sexual term for little girls instead of just "I want to play a little anime girl help me stat one".
Because 4chan and "little anime girl" just sounds awkward
-2 to all stats and saves
Enables special learning class that allows the character to tutor under a character or npc and very quickly learn their skills for less cost/time, however quickly transfers them to that class.
Maybe useful for a pre-game game for building up a new character or a game literally about surviving as a child in the streets or something. Lots of poor child on child street urchin combat and thievery
>Becoming a lich makes you better able to use cuteness to your advantage
I don't know what you're trying to >imply here, it obviously does.
I don't think you know what oppai loli is
lolis are less physically attractive than grown women so of course it is nonphysical charisma, uncomfortably skinny and flat, its the extreme cuteness and what inspires protectiveness etc.
Its, by definition, okay to fap to anyone and anything, and in fact its okay to have any thought or combination of thoughts.
It might not be so okay to bring what you fap to to the RPG table.
+2 Dex; -2 Str, Con, Wis
Some of your hatred is palpable.
But anyway OP those are the PF rules for it. I would only use these rules for abilities and realistically ingnore the class and other restrictions. Of course though if you aren't trying to "accurately" portray children and instead are playing fictional archetypes I would do what these anon's suggested
And us the PF race builder to make the loli-archetype fit whatever.
>And us the PF race builder to make the loli-archetype fit whatever.
Did. Great paragon of charisma for the stats (dumped wisdom and constitution), normal speed, race fey, small size, and then 9 RP on whatever it's supposed to fit.
OP asked how to stat a loli.
That's how you stat a loli.
Giving bonuses for being a child is preposterously stupid and just feeding a disgusting and dangerous fetish.
Of course giving those modifiers is not what I would do. I would simply not allow the character.
>Trying to make the character so weak they're unplayable simply because you don't like the player's concept is a dick ass passive aggressive move and unbecoming of a DM,
It's not 'not liking the player's concept', it's being rational with how a stupid child would fare in combat, adventures and intrigues that are meant to be challenging and life-threatening to particularly gifted adults.
I'm pretty sure the anon was trying to highlight how charisma is not "actually exactly knowing how to use cuteness to your advantage"
like >>44884666 said, by pointing out a number of examples of skills and abilities that rely on Charisma.
Although a feat that allows to use "cuteness" to get a bonus to some skill checks (like Diplomacy, Bluff and such stuff) could work, as long as you make it conditional (for example there's no reason this cuteness should work while bargaining with, say, a Gnoll or an Ogre who just sees you as a snack)
Given that in most games, the stat-block represents anyone between mid-teens to arthritis-plagued oldies who've lived decades, if not centuries past their due-by date, needlessly punishing an underage character is, well, kinda stupid.
Remember, a PC isn't 'commoner', they are the one in a thousand, truly gifted individuals.
I'm not defending playing lolis here. I'd tell my own players No outright unless they could really sell the idea.
And that's what it comes down to, you don't want children in your campaign then you just out and out say NO. You don't play passive-aggressive shit-head.
There's literally no good reason to not give all loli characters 18 in all stats.
If we're talking someone like Mina or Shinobu, who are ancient vampires capable of tearing through armies with consummate ease, then having high stats are kind of a given.
Mind you, they both would age up whilst they are doing their rip-n-tear business
>Someone opposing my use of thing must obviously be using thing!
Let's bring this to its logical conclusion.
>I oppose bringing lolis into a game, so I must be a pedo
>You oppose my opposition of loli player characters into a game, on the basis that I must be a pedo for opposing you
>Therefore, since you oppose playing with a pedophile, you in turn can be accused of being a closet pedophile
Personally, I just think it's fucking obnoxious and adds nothing to the game, especially using the word 'loli'.
If you could play it well, I suppose I would let it pass, but it's stupid to just go, 'lol loli you all are pedos'.
OP is asking how to stat a child.
You want to stat a child, considering what modifiers would being a child inherently bring? Then you penalize them heavily.
You want to cling to bring in the
>the stat-block represents anyone between mid-teens to arthritis-plagued oldies
argument? Then you don't ask how to stat a child.
>And that's what it comes down to, you don't want children in your campaign then you just out and out say NO. You don't play passive-aggressive shit-head.
You might have missed
>Of course giving those modifiers is not what I would do. I would simply not allow the character.
Wow you're fucking disgusting baka desu senpai.
Seems like you're some kind of butthurt creeper really.
i think your the one doing damage control here anon there was nothing to really indicate anon was talking about lolis outside of the thread being about lolis and on /tg/ that doesent count for much we derail a lot
Thanks, I hadn't heard from my dad in years.
A child character should probably get a bonus to experience gain (essentially a negative level adjustment, treating their level as lower than it actually is for xp needed to level up), since the one thing children are really good at is learning stuff. It's especially notable for languages. It's a lot easier to learn a foreign langauge if you start learning it from a young age than if you start when you're an adult.
I wonder how that would actually work game-balance wise. A child character would have penalties to nearly every stat but would likely be at a higher level than the other party members.
No, it isn't.
Gnomes have fucking CON bonuses, to begin with. Explain me why a child would have more CON than an adult.
Halflings have DEX bonuses. A child hasn't yet fully developed their muscles and bones and lacks the coordination of an adult.
Not to mention children haven't yet fully developed their personality and aren't going to be taken seriously by any adult easily, so they should get a CHA penalty as well, and then WIS becuse they're young, inexperienced, underdeveloped and naive.
Charisma has always been a problematic stat since it represents 2 or 3 completely different things.
On one hand it represents the characters, well, charisma. Their ability to persuade, convince and otherwise affect the opinions of people. Different character might do that in a very different way. One character might use their appearance for their advantage, while another might be an extremely convincing speaker. Physical attractiveness is also part of charisma, but mostly in the sense that people tend to be more likely to listen to the person they find attractive than one they consider hideous, at least provided both are about as good speakers.
A cute girl who knows how to use her appearance to manipulate people would fit under this definition of charisma.
On the other hand, it also represents a more abstract "force of personality", which is why sorcerers use charisma to cast spells (they have innate ability to use magic and how good they're at it depends only on how well they can bend magic to their will).
There isn't really any good reason why these two very different things should be governed by one stat, as it does lead to some weird things. Although a loli paladin who gets her powers by being so cute that even the gods think she's adorable does sound pretty funny.
>Stick it on some powerful monster
>It's now a loli
And that's how you save the day. A dragon or the tarrasque is considerably less terrifying opponent when stuck in the body of a little girl.
Some loli are pretty crafty so I have no issue with them having high charisma.
So uh. Didn't expect people to defend so hard that children shouldn't be playable in pathfinder.
To (try to) be clear one last time, it was never in my intention to stat children; it was, however, in my intention to stat supernatural beings known for being kinda weak and impulsive, being able to do shit like wielding weapons three times their size or being way better than the average human in one particular skill, whose requests requires some sheer willpower to turn down and who happens to appear like undeveloped female humans.
Get past the physical appearance - or better even, change it - but keep the assumptions about what the typical loli can do and that's all the fucking same to me. I just want the stats.
(though I should have made it clear that you need _some_ /a/-related knowledge to understand what I'm getting at)
Hot "If you don't have the 10 bucks you're out of luck" Pocket
Hot "If you don't have a tumblr I'm sending you to the gas chamber" Pocket
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Actually on further thought, there is a situation where horribly gimping a very young character wouldn't be a dick ass move, doing something like >>44894162 where they have a negative LA so they gain levels faster
>replying to something posted 6h ago in a autosagged thread
He won't even see your post.