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>£60
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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

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>£60
>$100
>€80

I... what?

Are GW actively trying to tank Age of Sigmar?

Not to mention, how are the "little timmy" types the AoS rules are aimed at going to paint all these new massive plastic models? It's one thing painting a smooth armoured Space Marine or Sigmarine, but whilst some of these new kits like Nagash look great, I bet there's a load of grey plastic being pushed around tables.
>>
>>44875443
>how are the "little timmy" types the AoS rules are aimed at going to paint all these new massive plastic models?
Because AoS isn't being aimed at little timmy
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>>44875462

Who is it being aimed at then? All I can think of is the mentally handicapped and mugs.
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>>44875493
IMO, It's being aimed at 40k players who never got into WHFB. Whoever the target audience is, it's not working.
>>
There was a recent interview of Phil Kelly (I think) where he bashed the execs at GW, saying that they thougth that fantasy and 40k where miniature collectibles and that the game itself was just a marketing thing.
Hence AoS, it's a new range of minis before being a new game.
>>
>>44875832
>saying that they thougth that fantasy and 40k where miniature collectibles
You don't have to rely on his word. GW openly states as much.
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>>44875584
Sigmarines were made to appeal to 40k fans moving to fantasy or at least to sell as conversion material for the real space marines.

Similar reasoning in the change to chaotics' armours.
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>>44875443
>>44875462
>>44875493
>>44875584
AoS is straight up being aimed at hobbyists. The game specifically has no complicated army construction rules so that you can buy whatever you think is interesting and then put it on the table, without any regard to what it is.

It covers the people who want the various cool models and the hobbists who just want to paint shit and put it on the table, without either having to actually consider their army lists.
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>>44875875
Games workshop is an example of corporate openness gone wrong
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>>44876134
In the same way that a massive chest wound is regular openness gone wrong.
>>
>>44876130
>AoS is straight up being aimed at hobbyists.
>MMO design
>>
>>44875584

>nuke fantasy to get space marine bucks.
>people start quitting 40k in terror

great success!
>>
>>44875443
>>44875493

It's not being aimed at little timmy (and honestly, anyone who says that previous editions of whfb were complicated or good should just shoot themselves), it's being aimed at hobbyists who just want to play with cool miniatures, because that's all GW has going for them and has been for a long time.

If you play any GW game that is currently in print for the rules, you have some kind of mental condition, they haven't made something that anyone would want play without the warhammer/40k settings to back it up since probably Epic Armageddon and Blood Bowl.

I get that oldhammer players are fucking stoked that they finally have someone to make fun of for playing a more retarded game than them, but it's a pretty severe case of the pot calling the kettle Chaos Black.
>>
>>44876640
Oh, here is GW defence forces.
>>
>>44876879
I think you should reread that post.
>>
>>44876879
Are you literate? Or did you just reply after the first few sentences? That post bashes GW more than defends them, it just pointed out a misunderstanding in the post it replied to.
>>
>>44875462
You can admit you're playing a children-friendly game, Anon, we're not going to point at you and call you names

>>44875832
Yeah, and you'd think they would improve the quality of their sculpts rather than throw it out of the window.
Also, it doesn't make much sense to aim at "collectors" by making an all new brand of fantasy miniatures. You can make series of collectible miniatures from novel series or movies, for example (and expect a market proportionate to the success of such series), or based on mythology or history, but ... a new shitty and uninspired setting coming out of the blue? What's to collect in that?

Ironically, old WHFB miniatures or good rescuplts based on them would have held much greater collectible value, since unlike AOS WHFB was well established.
Chapeau, GW.

>>44876130
>>44876485
Yeah, not with that design.

Also one thing is making an enjoyable but simple game that doesn't require 300+ pages rulebooks and allows you to play whatever you want, another is making 4 pages of a sad excuse of a rulebook glued togheter with spit and bugs.

>>44876640
> anyone who says that previous editions of whfb were complicated or good should just shoot themselves
Better than this crap, at least you had actual rules to set up a game
>it's being aimed at hobbyists who just want to play with cool miniatures
"Cool"

>and has been for a long time
Hence the name, "Hobbies Workshop"
>>
>>44876640
>>44876927
>it's being aimed at hobbyists who just want to play with cool miniatures, because that's all GW has going for them
Like that dragon horse with three mismatched faces?
Or the new slayers where they only bother to design half the model before mirroring it?
Or these shitty "Varanguard" models?

It was the universe of warhammer that people loved and they bought in to it by buying and constructing armies. Now that's gone there is nothing but stupid, over designed models left with nothing to justify their existence.
>>
>>44877047
>nother is making 4 pages of a sad excuse of a rulebook glued togheter with spit and bugs.
That did tick me off a bit, I admit. It went from Chess with a fuckton of rules to 40k with almost no rules and no real purpose to large armies anymore.
>>
GW doesn't know how to run a business. Welcome to 2008.
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>>44876130
>aimed at hobbyists

Its still a game where they want you to buy 50+ models. And the rules suggest 100.
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>>44876927
>Are you literate?
Yep, same rhetoric as any other GW defender.
>>
>>44877347
Ah yes, the GW defence rhetoric that says they haven't made a good game in decades and the people who buy their products are retards. Astounding interpretive skills you've got there.
>>
>>44875443
>>£60
>>$100
>>€80
>I... what?

Essentially each is a hero and is priced as such, so £20 for one and £60 for three.

>>44875883
>conversion material for the real space marines.

Then they would be the same scale, but they're not even close.
>>
In a way its impressive.

In trying to grab 40k players not only did they lose their oldest fans and lose what little good will the community had left but also scared off huge numbers of people from 40k as well.
>>
>>44877782
Yeah, turns out if you scrap off your oldest game that has been running for decades, new players become less interested in spending hundreds of dollars in your other well-established franchise. Who could have imagined that?
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>>44877782
>>44877822
Perhaps you could get some stats before felating yourselves.
>>
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>>44877782
>ready to dive into 40k and Fantasy
>Stoked as fuck, gonna play Empire and Blood Angels
>MFW AoS drops
>>
>>44877904
You want 'stats' for the fact AoS has caused a colossal backlash?

Have you not been on the internet in the last six months? Every GW in my area is now completely dead as well.
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>>44877951
Really the best way to play 40k is play with friends, lower point values and ban all flyers/huge vehicles/giant walkers.

Basically the exact opposite of where GW is trying to force the game to go.
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>>44877961
>You want 'stats' for the fact AoS has caused a colossal backlash?

Yes.
Especially for
>scared off huge numbers of people from 40k as well.
>>
>>44877987
None of my friends are into 40k tho.
>>
>>44877951
You dodged a bullet there.
>>
>>44877904
Just check your FLGS, there's a coin flip chance they're putting AoS and all Fantasy on clearance to dump it.
Mine has it a full 50% off and the stack is still gathering dust.

What few people play it are using only their existing armies and not investing any more money in GW.
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>>44877987
> ban all flyers/huge vehicles/giant walkers.

fuck off poorfag
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>>44878077
>Just check your FLGS

Alternatively give stats.
>>
>>44878111
trips confirm, fuck off
>>
>>44878111
And here we see the kind of blind fanboy who is helping GW ruin the game.

Even if they were reasonably priced they just don't fit well in the 28mm scale.
>>
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>>44878124
How about supply and demand?
Amazon is one of the top stores in the world.

Warhammer Age of Sigmar Starter Box https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010TUEMOA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_3HONwb199RA8B

$65. The starter set price from GW is $125.

50% price drop on a new item, when all non-Age of Sigmar Warhammer Fantasy items are GW price?
Nobody wants it.

When the top retail outlet in the world marks something down that much, there's no demand.
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>>44878346
>How about supply and demand?

How about them stats?
>>
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>never liked Fantasy because players are autistic lawyers
>AoS announced
>cool, seems a nice change of tone
>i have good money ready for a recent event
>let's do this, I always wanted to have some Slaaneshi stuff
>mfw Slaanesh is dead
>>
>>44877904
You know full well that there's no stats. GW hasn't ever given precise stats about anything and one might doubt they even have any stats themselves.

What there is though is their last financial bulletin which reads "business as usual: losing money", and the low prices for AoS items at online stores which show that people aren't buying as much as expected.
>>
>>44878362
What do you define as "stats" exactly?
Nobody can post GW's own sales reports because they don't publish them.

Nobody can use those in support of or against Age because they don't exist for either you or me.

That being said, we CAN see GW's stock values. They've dipped since End Times gave them a slught bump, and logic says when a new product releases their stocks should soar for at least a while afterwards meaning as far as the workd economy goes, nobody gives a fuck about Age of Sigmar.
>>
>>44875443
Yeah they're ridiculous. The setting is also a little OTT for my tastes.
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>>44878367
Slaanesh isn't dead, he's been remived for the setting. His army is still there.
It's nlt like you could use him on the table so it doesn't matter.

Also, if you think Fantasy is rules lawyer autists you should play 40k. The entire gameplay is basically arguing about special rules.
>>
>>44878495
Does this mean the Eldar's retarded Ynnead plan to kill Slaanesh is actually going to work in 40K?
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>>44878508
No, but it means that GW's retarded plan to kill 40K worked on WFB.
>>
>>44876130
>hobbyists
GW is pretty bad for hobbyists though, for example you get either a box of 24 identical skinks or for nearly the same cost one guy who looks alright. Go over to Reaper and you get 2 badass turtle bros for $3, they have hundreds of models to choose from, I made an entire lizard band for Frostgrave for under $20. The only thing GW models have is ease of building, but as a hobbyist you have the skills to grapple with the harder designs of every other gaming company, most of whom are vastly cheaper and more interesting.

Also:
>without either having to actually consider their army lists.
This is not AOS at all. Each AOS game I have seen had a 15+ minute Haggle Phase when the players debate what they are going to use in the game and who is going to win. AOS has one of the most intense army list requirements out there as they change every single game and requires a ton of opposing player input.
>>
>>44875584
Which is funny because I'm not tempted at all. In fact I'm far more tempted by KoW now.
>>
>>44878465
Not to mention that even with Betrayal at Calth selling like hot cakes they did not improve.
>>
>>44876130
Damn, I think I am the target audience for AoS.

I own a good bit of warhammer (mostly 40k, but two or three fantasy armies too), and a rules-light game where I could use all my favourite stuff probably would pull me in... except for the fact that I love the Warhammer fantasy world and they killed it off.

Also, hate the new aesthetic.

Will people burn me at the stake if I say that I'd have been very tempted by AoS-style rules in the old WFB world?
>>
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>>44878531
>TFW $30 for 10 Guardsmen
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>>44878495
Yeah, i saw, but we didn't know at the time.

The notion that GW could kill your favourite faction if they feels like it was a major deterrent for a lot of people.

That was a game that was fuel by the hype, and still they weren't transparent with the customers. They paid the price, now nobody plays it.
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>>44878585
>a rules-light game where I could use all my favourite stuff
That depends mightily on the amount of favourite stuff. AoS is a skirmish game.
>>
>>44878111
I'd say "go play Warmaster/Epic" but those games had fanbase much better than the toxic shit WFB became in the last decade, and also are dead. Jesus, I'd actually buy GW shit again if they brought Warmaster back.
>>
>>44878635
>Epic
>dead
No? GW dropping Epic was the best thing that ever happened to it.
>>
Is Kill Team the cost:fun ratio way to enjoy 40K?
>>
>>44878456
>You know full well that there's no stats.

Not with that attitude.

>>44878465
>What do you define as "stats" exactly?

Statistics. Solid information that tells us things.

We've seen GW financials, and they are largely unchanged. This is enough reason to call AoS a failure, as it or the company at least are doing no better with it than with WHFB. But that's all, you cannot just start making other shit up.
>>
>>44878722
You're being overly pedantic.

http://www.iii.co.uk/news-opinion/richard-beddard/games-workshop%3A-denial
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>>44878689
The prices are still ridiculous, but yeah, it's probably the most cost effective way to play 40k.
>>
>>44878508
No.
In End Times, all Elves other than Tyrion, Malekith, Alarielle, Teclis, and Morathi died and were eaten by Slaanesh. The survivors became gods, each the physical manifestation of a type of magic (and Malekith fused with his dragon somehow, we don't have pics to know what he looks like afterwards).

Slaanesh was bloated like bad inflation porn and hid in a cave to savour the juggling souls inside him. Malekith, Teclis, and Tyrion found him and beat him until he puked all the Elf souls, causing Aelves to appear and spread back into Warhammer.

The Chaos Gods promoted Horned Rat to the Great Game to replace him.

Slaaneshi Daemons are in a civil war. Some want to be the new Slaanesh, some want to save the original. Nobody else misses him, and the top Keeper of Secrets is named Luxcious, and declared gerself the Ur-Slaanesh.

The 40k version would be all Eldar but four die, the four capture him ane beat all the Eldar out of him, and T/K/N promote Be'lakor to Chaos God to replace him causing a new type of Daemons who only fuck up to appear.
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>>44878900
>The 40k version would be all Eldar but four die, the four capture him ane beat all the Eldar out of him, and T/K/N promote Be'lakor to Chaos God to replace him causing a new type of Daemons who only fuck up to appear.
>yfw this will probably happen
>>
>>44878900
>The 40k version would be all Eldar but four die, the four capture him ane beat all the Eldar out of him
That kinda sounds like Ynnead. All Eldar die and create a new Eldar god who captures Slaanesh and beats all the Eldar out of him.
>>
>>44878362
I have some stats for you.

YOU
Reasonability: 5 (-3)
Contribution to the discussion: 2 (-4)
Licking GW's butt: 35 (+12)
>>
>>44878722
>making other shit up

You heard it here first folks, saying AoS is unpopular makes you a liar.
>>
>>44877987
So like, 2nd through 4th?
Remember when 1500 pts was a big game for 40k?
when they had 40k and epic things made sense. 40k was for small skirmishes suitable for the scale, epic was for actual battles and was again suitably scaled.
>>
>>44878939
Oh, I forgot the four survivors had sworn eternal loyalty to the reborn Emperor and they're in the rainbow Imperium now.
One is a backstabbing asshole who beat the reborn Horus who has respect for him.
One went crazy and rules the Tyranids now. They like the Emperor, sort of.
One stayed with the Emperor, has her own black Daemonettes because reasons, and is probably giving Emps handjobs 24/7 because he reminds her of her husband who died billions of years ago.
The last two are twin brothers Anakin Skywalker and Obi-wan Kenobi.
>>
>>44879043
Exactly, just like the best way to fix WHFB was just to go back to 6th.
>>
>>44879160
Yup.
To be fair I never played fantasy. I liked it, was sorta into it, and always planned to get into it, but never did. I did buy models from time to time, because fantasy had some really nifty models with cool stories to go with them.
Now, with no chance of being able to play them, and no way I'd ever play AoS, there's just no reason to even buy the models anymore.
>>
>>44879236
Which is where GW really goofed, in their mind gamers are a minority of their market. If there is not even the thought of 'well I might play it some day' because the game and the fluff is awful then a lot of interest is gone.
>>
>>44879472
Not to mention that in their mind hordes of non-gamers would swarm the store to get their clutches on horrible naked smoth-skinned dwarfes.
>>
>>44879472
The thing is, I wouldn't even mind if they had scrapped the game all together, but not the world. If they kept the fluff, and maybe released fluff books, and models I would still be interested. Not as much mind you, but maybe enough to buy a few more dark elves or empire models.
>>
>>44878900
There are Aelves in Azyr, there are none everywhere else.

As far as we know Teclis was not involved in the kidnapping of Slaanesh and the Aelven souls remain unpuked. It has been implied that the Aelves in Slaanesh' belly are actually eating it from the inside.

The Horned Rat joined the Pantheon of the Dark Gods, and renamed himself The Great Horned Rat.
>>
>>44879717
I kinda get what they were trying for with letting you field what you want, rather than the "unit X looks cool but never gets played because it's rubbish" situations. I did think to myself, maybe I could just focus more on the modelling side?

But then I read the full extent of the changes to the setting and saw the sigmarites, and that promptly killed off that interest. So it's back to sitting on the fence, waiting for the next possibility to jump back in. I've waited years already, no problem waiting a few more.
>>
>>44876130

AoS is aimed straight up at the retards

given that you are a fan, it is working
>>
>>44879982
>The Horned Rat joined the Pantheon of the Dark Gods, and renamed himself The Great Horned Rat.
"I shall henceforth be known as Super Kami Guru"
>>
>>44879982
There was no Aelves anywhere before they captured Slaanesh. The High Elf Aelves, forgot the name, remained in Azyr. The Wood Aelves just kind of wandered off.

It flat out says Teclis was one of the three who went with them.
>>
>>44878722
>We've seen GW financials, and they are largely unchanged.

5% drop in sales, 2.2% in total revenue. Even as they are putting out eldar, admech and betrayal at calth still the royalties/cost cutting are the only thing saving their total revenue

the sales drop is the largest they had the last 5 years. you literally have no fucking idea what you are talking about
>>
>>44880014
Meh, I've been buying all the models I wanted secondhand for years.
They've ensured I'll never get to play, but I won't give ant money for it.

Except Total Warhammer. I was never going to play Warriors so it's all good.
>>
>>44879160

newfag detected, 6th was a hot mess compared to 4th
>>
>>44880557
>5% drop in sales

>Operating profit was flat too, although it was rescued by royalty income from other firms, for example app and computer game producers who use Games Workshop’s fantasy worlds. Profit from the sale of miniatures and games, the company’s core business, fell 15%.

15% actually, you dropped a number buddy

go contemplate on that. 15% loss on sales. it is absurd
>>
>>44877904

GW won't release particular stats for which units are selling most, but in their half-year report they admitted they had a very shit Christmas.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/08/games-workshop-fails-weave-christmas-magic
>>
>>44878585

Try "Song of Blades and Heroes" mate, if you want a lighter skirmish game. I love it myself.
>>
>>44880638
Will GDubs die in our lifetime?
>>
>>44880944
God I fucking hope so.
>>
>>44880773
Well, when your Black Friday sales packages are at the lowest $200 with $10 in savings, you aren't going to sell shit.

You want to sell package deals, you offer two free paint pots when you spend $50, or a digital novel from Black Library with an Army Book purchase, or you buy a Battalion and get a same-faction infantry character of your choice with it free.
>>
>>44880773

yadda yadda yadda, I don't hear you, obviously AoS where the starter goes for $40 on ebay (30% of the MSRP) is A TOP SELLER
>>
>>44881049
That's so bad its almost at cost.
Sigmarines and Blood(verb) truly are worthless.
>>
>>44880586
>hot mess

In what possible sense?
>>
>>44881047
I never got the point of these bundles, really.
Until some years ago, the only 'bundles' were starter armies and had some nice discount to them - nothing huge, but worth considering. When I started playing (about 11 years ago), army box sold at 75 euro actually had 90-100 euro worth of miniatures.

But now, why would anyone buy a bundle without a discount when they can just put as many of these boxes as they want in their cart?

Not to mention how tedious it is to check the store, see lot of items in the 'news', check them and oh my fucking god twenty bundles and one new kit.
>>
>>44880552
>"When Tyrion and Teclis chanced upon Sigmar, they rejoiced to find anything familiar, and yet that joy turned to despair as they learned that outside of the city of Azyrheim, the other realms bore no signs of aelfkind."
>"Thus, in pursuing their own goals and capturing Slaanesh, Malerian and Tyrion failed of their duties to Sigmar, further weakening the Great Alliance."
Warhammer: Age of Sigmar book, The Great Alliance section.

If another source says otherwise I don't know of it.
>>
>>44881318
They found each other, not a race of Aelves.
Which is even worse character rape than End Times that they're happy to see each other now.
>>
>>44880401
>>44878585
>>44878531
>>44877290
>>44877047
>>44876485
You guys mistake me. I'm not saying it's a good or even decent business plan, I'm just saying that's their clear goal. AoS is still plenty shit, and they've handled the whole thing pretty badly.

I'm of the camp that good and balanced rules serve both the competitive and the casual payers equally well, so having a shit rules system fucks both sides.
>>
>>44875443
The game is based in GW's mistaken impression that their models are luxury collectibles that people will pay this much for, and that their primary customer base is made up of hobbyists who want a few figures to paint. They think people will pay these insane prices because most customers only intend on making a few purchases to paint and display each year.

They are utterly wrong, of course, but that's what happens when you do zero market research.
>>
>>44881392
>"In the realm of Hysh, Tyrion was jolted awake."
>"but had been elevated to something yet loftier - a god of light, the Lord of Lumination."
>"Although he could no longer see, Tyrion felt the glowing presence of his brother Teclis beside him."
>"Tyrion awakened his borther and discovered he could see through Teclis' eyes. Together, they explored this radiant new world.
>"Astonished by the strange lands and creatures, Tyrion and Teclis grew ever more desperate to discover some of their own kind, yet they found none."
>"When Tyrion and Teclis chanced upon Sigmar, they rejoiced to find anything familiar, and yet that joy turned to despair as they learned that outside of the city of Azyrheim, the other realms bore no signs of aelfkind. Each readily swore oaths to join Sigmar, following him to the Realm of Azyr to join his growing pantheon of gods."

Not the entire three paragraphs but most of it.
>>
>>44878658
>GW dropping Epic was the best thing that ever happened to it.

This.
>>
>>44881683

Which is the one most people play, NetEpic or NetEA?
>>
>>44881702
NetEA these days. Though there's still a hold-out of old NetEpic.
>>
>>44878658
Speaking of which, what recasters do Epic?
>>
>>44881683
Well we can thank FW that it will be bringing Epic and other specialist games.

The only thing would be the prices...
>>
>>44878689
Nope. The RPGs are. By far.
>>
>>44878689
The best way to enjoy 40k is to buy DoW collection on steam sale.
>>
>>44879472
>If there is not even the thought of 'well I might play it some day' because the game and the fluff is awful then a lot of interest is gone.

Exactly this. People used to make this mistake when arguing a lot and GW is still making it.

When it comes to groups who buy tabletop wargame shit it's not just "people who play games" and "people who don't play games". There's also a large group of "people who don't play for one reason or another (schedule problems, trouble finding local groups etc.) but whose buying habits are still influenced by the idea of some day playing games".

Those people might never play a game in their lives, but they'll still buy 60 identical space marines with rhinos or whatever, but without the carrot of potentially playing a game with them they won't.
>>
>>44880944
GW isn't in any danger of dying as a business for a decade at least. Even with dropping sales they're still making profit, still have cash in the bank and still have no debt. They'd have to suddenly spend a ridiculous amount of money on something stupid and start borrowing like crazy to be at any risk. Maybe commission a few more 4+million pound websites from Kirby's wife.

It's more likely that the games will have just completely died out before GW as a company disappears.
>>
Is my local FLGS the only one who absolutely loves Sigmar?

I don't personally play it, but the crowd for Sigmar is nearly as big as the 40K group during some weeks. Everyone bases their list off in wounds as compared to what they take, and everyone seems to have fun. The only time i've seen it be really shitty was a guy using a fortress and blocking the gate, while he had artillery in the back firing at the other guy who couldn't do anything since he was Sigmarines
>>
>>44877779
>Essentially each is a hero and is priced as such, so £20 for one and £60 for three.
Doesn't really make it okay hey
Other companies manage to keep their hero minatures at reasonable prices, why should GW get a free pass? Some of GW's heroes are literally more then an entire box of 15+ dudes
>>
>>44884123
I like the recent power armour BA chaplain that alone costs as much as a starter set for another game.
>>
>>44884123
Even the plastic infantry is now comparable in price to individual metal hero models from other manufacturers. Its practically obscene.
>>
Also what the fuck is with GW's 'web bundles' that are just 2-5 of the same box, at the same price as just buying 2-5 of that box. No discount or any sort of incentive to get the bundle as opposed to just buying two
>>
>>44884041
No, but my former group didn't buy anything from it. They just switched games.
>the other guy who couldn't do anything since he was Sigmarines
Why not take a Duardin Cannon then? There's no army restrictions.
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>>44884426
Pic related.
>>
>>44884426
Fuck, if nothing else it makes me less likely to buy them when I realise that to have a decent number of these little shits will cost into the hundreds of dollars, as opposed to the ~$50 it used to tend to be.
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>>44884430
That would be evil WAAC and not forging the narrative obviously.
>>
>>44884513
But its perfectly fluffy. In fact, its the fluffiest Order faction mix possible since Grungni loves the taste of Sigmar's cock now.
>>
>>44884513
I think that is the most annoying thing, the people who like that game tend to be self righteous little shits who think the lack of actual rules is a good thing because it scared off the dirty tourneyfags.
>>
>>44884430
The main problem was that the Sigmarine guy had a lot of infantry, and hadn't really bought anything else (new to the hobby, hadn't even painted half). When first taking a look at the battle, it seemed pretty even since he had more powerful infantry than the daemon player. I don't think he realized that the daemon player was going to just cram that little gate with juggernauts and let nothing pass towards those cannons that were destroying him. Then there was summoning even more bloodletters on the table, which means that there was an endless supply of bodies to fill the gate. All in all that match was just a fucking mess because the Sigmarine was clearly having no fun and the Daemon guy was so proud of his 'victory'
>>
>>44876134

And yet faggots whine about how GW isn't open enough with things like rumors.
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And I thought that $60 for Bloodcrushers was silly. It's not as if these guys are better than the old Chaos Knights.

I doubt that they will tank AOS on their own though. A lot of the range is still somewhat reasonably priced. Lack of real competitive events will probably hurt it though. WHFB is being phased out for KoW and other games where I am.
>>
>>44878531
>Turtlemen
>Lizard warband
Late as fuck but which models are those?
>>
>>44884827
But AoS just werks.
>>
>>44884910
I disagree with the prices of them but they are much bigger than chaos knights. Bigger than juggernauts
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>>44884910
>A lot of the range is still somewhat reasonably priced

Such as?

They are charging five pounds EACH for plastic infantry in some of those kits.
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>>44884906
Your amazing Reflex save allowed you to dodge the joke entirely...!
>>
>>44884976
To be fair, that was the only bad game i've ever really seen. Most matches are with everyone having a lot of fun and are over in about half the time most 40K games are. Hell it's even got me thinking about starting Skaven, but I guess it's because the AOS players here were happy about the switch from fantasy
>>
>>44884827
FUCK, that's another thing, how ridiculous is the concept of summoning in a game where there's no points and what you take doesn't matter and you could just field those units but nooooo you decided to summon them
>>
>>44885002
TK Skeletons for example are still $35 for 16, for better than more updated models like let's say Guardsmen. And some armies don't have massive plastic centerpiece models yet. I will concede that those Skeletons are 10 years old, and it is only a matter of time before they reduce the amount of models per box or replace them with WoW inspired garbage, but they are still there.
>>
Play scenarios, is the only fun I have had with it
>>
>>44885121
Those skeletons also look horrible compared to the VC skeletons.
>>
>>44885096
My local area uses wounds as a 'point' limit. Most go for around 40-60 for the entire armies. Summoning is good because it allows you to get those extra wounds on the table, but if I recall bloodletters aren't the best against Sigmarines (the vast majority of players here)
>>
>>44882434
I'd be interested in new Epic stuff, but I doubt they could make anything that can compete in rules quality or money value with the other small scale games at the moment. And they still wouldn't make Sisters stuff.
>>
>>44885172
Nah man, use a bit of sprue to make them stand upright instead of being hunchbacks and heat to bend the joints taller, and they look pretty fuckin' good.
>>
I have to say though, I'm somewhat positively surprised on the decent discount on the new faction starter sets they've just pulled out for AOS. The Chaos one is at 65 euro and its kits costed about 90-100 when I left the game (several years ago). Not bad.
>>
>>44885530
No the heads and hands look awful.
>>
>>44885530
I'd rather buy Mantic's skeletons.
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>>44884041
You sound like the exception that proves the rule. I've never seen a soul even buy an AoS set at my LGS, let alone play a game of it.

40k and Dystopian Wars are the big ones around here.
>>
>>44885564
Thats because they are priced as a super rip off so a rip off looks like a deal to you idiots
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>>44885679
Ive never seen a soul play Dystopian Wars at my LGS you must be the exception that proves the rule
>>
>>44885679
Huh, I guess it's because the only good LGS actually around here is GW.

Manager doesn't even shill that much, i've legit seen some people who don't know what 40K really is but love Sigmar.
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>>44885741
First time I hear the Dystopian Wars in AoS complaints.

I've seen a few people commenting that AoS is played near them. I doubt they are the only ones.
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>>44885638
Mantic has good skellies, but their zombies are bad and their ghouls are absolute bottom tier shit.
>>
>>44884827
That's why the next time you bring auxiliaries and just say that it's a rematch and the stormcasts remembered what killed them so hard last time and are taking steps to change that
>>
Does Nagash get Chaos souls now too?
Seems from the new lore he gets everything that isn't a Daemon.
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So if Sigmarines are making so little money, do they regret this yet?
>>
>>44887438
It think I remember reading that the Chaos Gods get the souls of their followers.

I'm pretty sure if they are brought back as undead the souls become Nagash property. It could also mean dying in the realm of Death makes them Nagash property.

Not really sure about all of this to be honest. I don't remember any specific mention of soul claims. Just Nagash being really angsty at being denied by Sigmar.
>>
>>44887547
I don't think Kirby cares because he still gets some $700,000 in dividend payments on top of his salary and whatever money he embezzles.

It's the people dumb enough to get a job staffing GW stores who got their wages frozen and will probably be fired for failing to meet sales targets who are fucked.
>>
>>44878003
Well, at the beginning of 6th edition my flgs had a 40k playerbase of ~40 people who played on a regular basis. Escalation, Knights, AoS, 7th edition balance, etc, etc.. has all but killed 40k around here. The past three friday nights there have been two 40k games going, and its the same four people each week.
Half of the playerbase still shows up, but is playing other stuff. Mostly WM/H now, but also lots of board games and X-Wing. Theres always a couple tables going of stuff I have no idea what game it is.

Anyway yeah its anecdotal, but Im sure there are similar stories all over the world. GW is hurting themselves through stupid moves.
>>
>>44875883
>or at least to sell as conversion material for the real space marines.

Guilty as charged. A friend did this too. Hopefully they don't decide this is evidence that AoS is going well. Game needs a severe overhaul.
>>
>>44887547
I think its hilariously fitting. A symbol of their brazen stupidity and delusional approach to their product.

They are going to have to face the music soon.
>>
>>44880552
>>44879982

Don't you guys feel kind of retarded typing the word "Aelves?" Not saying its not correct, just wondering if I'm the only one who can't say or type that word without cringing. Like, it just sounds like an inbred hillbilly saying "Elves".
>>
>>44888496
Pronunciation would be the same. Its an alternate spelling.
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>>44888712
That is, somehow, only more retarded.
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>>44888762
It's funnier when you consider the name change is supposed to be make it more copyrightable but aelf is also an old english word so it actually isn't.
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>>44888840
It's also one letter off from being Alf, which makes them very had to take seriously.
>>
>>44888943
The Irony is 40k was intended to be the joke version of Fantasy.

It ended up the other way around.
>>
>>44890197
It's cool how GW started as a garage set up with 40k being lighthearted and satirical of authoritarianism as it was inspired by stuff like 2000AD only for GW to turn into an authoritarian parody of a company that takes 40k's grimdarkness completely seriously and unironically releases AoS where you're expected to sympathise with evil looking, homogenised, brainwashed ubermensch.
>>
>>44878456
But.. that's the complete opposite to what the report said.

Like, literally the opposite. in 2014, they made £16.6m profit. In 2015 they made £16m profit.

That is losing profit, not losing money. And that can easily be argued by the fact GW has invested heavily into a new specialist games department to bring back Bloodbowl, Mordheim and Necromunda and shit.
>>
>it's a bash on AoS to feel good episode
>it's a "GW is totes dying folks" re-run episode

Damn, these repeats have been going on for 15 years now!
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>>44891616
I think what happened to GW, as well as to its fictional universe, is a perfect example of pic related.

They released a game about humanity at its worts, parodying authoritarianism and religious fanaticism. Unfortunately, this inevitably attracted fans that were too stupid or stubborn to realize that this setting was parodical, who actually relate to and like the beliefs espoused by the Imperium of Man. Many of those fans are people that later would join the company at various levels, and also people who the 40K setting became increasingly geared towards, both because there were larger numbers of them in the company as time goes on and because morons exist in great numbers and are therefore profitable to sell stuff to.
>>
>>44891714
That would be every AoS General.

Seriously like six people in those threads are actually there to discuss the game. The rest are just there to laugh at GW's latest shitty sculpts.
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>>44887708
>Kirby

You do realise Kirby isn't it charge any more, right? He isn't the CEO any more. Hasn't been since like 2014. He's some other bullshit faggot now with his own made up bullshit title. Chief Executive of Global Blah blah blah.

Ever noticed after 2014, GW started trying to do good things?

>Knight Titans came back with good models
>Ad Mech was added as 40k race
>Skiitari was added as 40k race
>Horus Heresy got lots of cool models, especially Cult Mechanicus
>Betrayal at Calth box sets
>20%-40% off boxes
>Bringing back specialist games (and a new department has been opened for them)

This is very non-Kirby. So I don't think he has any part to play any more in that regard.

>158 posts
>66 unique IDs

Hmmm.
>>
>>44891756
The thing is, those who want to discuss the game don't want to deal with that shit. Like myself. WHFB Generals aren't up enough. I play both AoS and WHFB.

AoS is easier to get into and is a better PUG. But it has no competition, but I don't think that's it's aim at the moment. My WHFB group is still the same 4-5 guys it has been for the last 10 years.

People like to shitpost and AoS is a "nobody cares if they shitpost about it" topic. It's boring. It doesn't help Carnac inhabits those threads (he's also in this one) so it makes it doubly impossible to discuss anything.

So I've given up and just keep to myself and stick to 40k General to talk. Thing is. GW has been "dying" or "on it's deathbed" for at least 10 years. So, when is it going to die, /tg/? I mean, /tg/ knows the answers, right? I want to know, so I can mark a date I can offload all my models before they're worthless. But unless /tg/ can give me a date, it's utterly pointless.

It's always the same shit. GW is dying and on it's last legs and will die any day now. This is of course good as nobody will fill their void and GW won't be bought by any company.

Etc.
>>
>>44887438
>>44887558
All non-tainted souls go to the Underworlds where they are enslaved to Nagash.

Sigmar in the creation of the Stormcast perverted the natural order of things in the Mortal Realms. Heroic souls of dead humans have been stolen from Nagash's Underworlds. Their souls bond to Azyr instead of Shyish. So much souls have been stolen that Nagash is weakened by it. It's killing him. Nagash is enraged and vowed he will cast Sigmar from his throne and reclaim what is his by right.
>>
>>44891834
>People like to shitpost and AoS is a "nobody cares if they shitpost about it" topic. It's boring. It doesn't help Carnac inhabits those threads (he's also in this one) so it makes it doubly impossible to discuss anything.

Really? Point out his posts?
>>
>>44891772
You can argue that SG revival is courtesy of Rountree because he said they would "do a top down reassessment of the ranges" and it's just an announcement so far, but everything else was already in the pipeline. They don't pop those things out in 5 minutes.
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>>44891846
>"THEY DO NOT BELONG TO SIGMAR. SIGMAR THE DECEIVER. SIGMAR THE BARBARIAN. SIGMAR THE TRAITOR. WHO ALMOST COST AN UNDYING KING HIS KINGDOM."

Archaon's and Nagash's fluff is among the best things that came out of AoS.
>>
>>44891855
Kay. See >>44881318 >>44881663 >>44891919


>>44891917
I know, but it's still completely against the Kirby era. He shut the whole thing down. His solution to fix WHFB was "make hordes so good everybody needs them, that means new players buy double the boxes!" not realising that the price was a major put off for new players. AoS at least means I can play with 10 models or whatever.

Kirby did lots of stupid shit, but I have to keep hope that GW will carry on doing good shit. If they keep those discount box offers, the boxed games and cool factions being added (like Exodite Eldar for gun dinosaurs and SoB) then I'll be happy. Hell, if they did a SoB revamp, like DE, then I couldn't care less about anything else. But they won't, of course.
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>>44891977
You are a total and unbelievable cunt.

I just entered this thread I only made these posts >>44891846
>>44891919
>>44891855

That other anon was just being helpful and correcting people on the fluff and you mistook him for me? What kind of idiot are you?

AoS is better place without your toxic idiocy. Swigmar does not need you!
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>>44892041

RUN ITS THE CARNAC
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>>44892164
RUN, COWARD, RUN

RAAAAAAAAWR
>>
>>44891977
I want a SoB relaunch comparable to the DE one more than anyone, but honestly with how bad GW's model design has been the last few years I'm not confident I'd even want to buy them if they did. It's a symptom of how GW's shitty corporate culture drives talent away from the company.
>>
>>44891772
>long-term survivability of a great cash generating business
>concomitant complexity
>we owe these people a big vote of thanks

Is he literate? It reads like he's actually illiterate, actively tries to make it sound buzzword-y, but fails horrendously.

As the Chairman, doesn't he have someone to proof-read his shit and make sure it doesn't read like a 5th-grader wrote it while trying to sound "totes like my dad's job".
>>
>>44892041
Autist-kun I seeeee yooooooooou.
>>
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>>44892187

Slay the unbelievers, my loyal servant

Slay them all!
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>>44892239
As you wish your ANIMENESS!

I will heap their broken bodies before your Empty Throne.
>>
>>44891977

I think the basic concept of a skirmish game with simple rules and a low entry point is sound. After all, rather than trying to persuade people to buy and paint hundreds of near-identical models, AoS allows them the opportunity to start with one small army and buy additional options for it, or buy further forces for lots of other factions. It's got more potential for enjoyment, both from a gaming and a modelling point of view. The major fuck up was blowing up the fantasy setting to do it, which was totally unnecessary and just pissed people off.

On an unrelated note, GW's real problem is their stores. I've tried to work it out from their financials, and as far as I can tell the bricks and mortar operation eats somewhere between half and two thirds of their spending, while accounting for less than half of their revenue. They've already tried to cut costs, but the result is small one-man shops that don't provide the community and gaming opportunities that are key to a FLGS' survival and profitability. Actual street prescence made sense when GW was starting out, but in the internet era it's extremely difficult for one-product high-street operations to make any profit. They should refocus into supporting third party retailers and franchising out their shops so that they can sell other companies' products. While sales might fall as a result of not having a high-street prescence, they would free up a lot of capital. Just think, if even a fraction of the money they pump in to their retail operation went instead towards cutting prices, promoting events, advertising, providing bonuses for gaming shops that stock or sell a lot...
>>
>>44892354
>I think the basic concept of a skirmish game with simple rules and a low entry point is sound.

It is. It was called Lord the Rings Strategy Battle Game and it was great.
>>
>>44876130

But a big part of selecting GW specific minis is the background. And yet GW flushed all the lore of the Old World straight down the toilet and replaced it with something that's....questionable at best.

Honestly this could all have been accomplished without pissing virtually anyone off if GW had released Age of Sigmar exactly like they released 40K: it's Fantasy in the Future. It's an alternate rule-set with an alternate system of minis. Warhammer Fantasy remains, and continues to be supported with army books. AoS operates much like any other specialist game product would in conjunction with the main game.

No-one's feathers get ruffled, GW still get to do their "reboot" and see how it goes.
>>
>>44883769
>They'd have to suddenly spend a ridiculous amount of money on something stupid

Hmm, if only they were making a ton of new molds for a wargame that isn't selling.
>>
>>44876640

Lol the last good WFB game was Mordheim
>>
>>44881444

The anon speaks truth.
>>
>>44885691
Yeah, that's right, but back when I played it was the norm, and not too much unreasonable for a chaos player, to pay €30 for a kit of chaos warriors (12), €25 for a box of knights (5) or a chariot and about €12-15 for a sorceror. This makes €92 for the box they're now selling at €65. So, by those standards, it's a nice discount. Still an horrible lot to get 12 troops, 5 knight, a chariot and a character, but compared to some fucking dwarves it's almost decent.
>>
>>44891834
>AoS
>pickup game

AoS is a TERRIBLE pickup game, it might well be the worst one I have ever personally encountered.

No game that requires negotiating what units can be used before hand is a pickup game.
>>
>>44877080
>>44877080
>Opinions
You don't have to like miniatures, apparently a lot of people do, since GW still exists as a company despite only producing porly balanced drek for the last couple of decades.
I'm just pointing out that the minis are what matter to GW and to the fanbase, despite the vocal whfb minority who played the broken piece of shit game competitively. You don't have to like 3 face dragon horse guy, but he's a big, flashy miniature that people will be tempted to buy just because it looks cool. Yes, I'm aware that you disagree, but clearly GW doesn't care about the older warhammer fanbase since A: they weren't enough to make the game profitable, and B: warhammer fantasy was so fucking generic that entire companies sprang up living off the scraps from GW's table since they could just produce cheaper, meh looking alternatives and cash in. At least the current art direction looks like it's own thing instead of any old fantasy. Maybe the current direction will fail completely and they have to scrap AoS, but that already happened to WHFB so it's not like that's a point in it's favour.

>Hobbies Workshop
Haha, you got me there, obviously the name of the company completely trumps the reality of their practices. I mean fuck, the reason whfb was ever created was to sell more miniatures than they would with just role-playing games, and that's what AoS is. The bare minimum of structure to be called a game, in order to give people a reason to buy more than 1 of the same miniature, and to visit stores where people will try to get them to buy paints and glues at ridiculous markup.
>>44876879
Retard
>>44892836
Mordheim was cool and fun, but it was nowhere near as tight as epic armageddon for example. The balance was a mess and progression was pretty broken.
>>
>>44893303
It's not like WHFB was better.

>Ohmanohman I hope I get to play with a decent human being and not some netlisting tryhard who refuses to shake hands if he loses.

I totally agree that AoS is shitty, but I applaud GW for at least taking a bigger dump on the "competitive" retards than the people who just play as an excuse to show off their little plastic men and hang out with other nerds.
>>
>>44893488
>I totally agree that AoS is shitty, but I applaud GW for at least taking a bigger dump on the "competitive" retards than the people who just play as an excuse to show off their little plastic men and hang out with other nerds.

I get the feeling that this is a shill tactic.

He derides AOS a little but spends the rest of his post praising it. It's a clever disguise for his shilling.
>>
>>44893488
>I applaud GW for at least taking a bigger dump on the "competitive" retards

God dammit, people need to stop spouting this crap. GW did not help ANYBODY by removing all actual force building restrictions from the game other than power gamers. Stop this self righteous bullshit towards people who actually enjoy the game aspect of a warGAME. Fluffy hobby gaming and competition should always go hand in hand, they are not opposed any more than roleplaying is opposed to making an optimised character in an RPG.
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>>44893521
Its all over the wargame forums, people claim AoS was worth it because it scared off the filthy WAAC tournefags. Which is what you are if you give a damn about the actual game part.

Even if this was true was it really worth throwing away everything and splintering the wargames community just to spite people who like to play to win? I thought that was the point of a wargame, to have fun competing against someone else with a toy army.
>>
>>44893574
>Its all over the wargame forums, people claim AoS was worth it because it scared off the filthy WAAC tournefags. Which is what you are if you give a damn about the actual game part.

It's a mentality that literally only exists for GW games because no other game community has to try and defend a company that asks so much money but utterly refuses to try and put any effort into designing the game.
>>
>>44893589
Then maybe you should spend your effort enjoying those games rather then giving this POS your attention.
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>>44893488
>but I applaud GW for at least taking a bigger dump on the "competitive" retards

They only shit on competitive players, because they shit on everyone at once.

If anything, it give competitive assholes more power since now they're able to decide what you can and cannot take.

Like for example, if I wanted to run a Nuln army with lots of steamtanks, cannons and musketeers, my opponent is free to say "No, I do want to play those units." So then I'm no longer able to play the army I wanted to play.
>>
>>44893488
More restrictive rules could be exploited, but man, in the total absence of rules the only restriction is a person's decency. And you can't count on that.

I mean, if WotC decided to adopt the same politics (and I know it's an impossible and unreasonable scenario), and said "Make your decks with whichever cards you want from whichever format and with any number of copies, we don't care", what would prevent people from making 20-cards decks comprised entirely of lotuses, ancestral recalls, force of will and tendrils or another storm finisher.
>>
>>44893625
Is there special refusal rules in the rules now?
>>
>>44893630
People play formats they like. Telling people they can play like that will not stop people still playing the way they did.
>>
>>44893640
not original anon, but I'll jump in
There isn't any special refusal rules that I know of, but if your opponent refuses to play you, you can't force him, you can't make him put models on the board.
>>
>>44893630
Its a good thing my pieces of printed cardboard are worth the price compared to those pieces of molded plastic
>>
>>44893669
I assume if you require to play for a league game thats an auto lose. I don't see how it differs from refusing to play certain armies before.
>>
>>44893669
I'm pretty sure that refusing to play also worked in WHFB. It's a dick move, but what was to stop someone going 'I don't like your army so I am not playing'?
>>
>>44893640
That's pretty much how the 'Gentleman's Argument' system works. Since GW can't be assed, it's up to the players to balance, which comes down to down either saying what models are and aren't allowed or re-writing their stats.
>>
>>44893689
The thing is that actual specifically designed and balanced rules, even if they aren't completely perfect, are an independent arbitrator when it comes to matching up with people. "Just do fucking whatever we don't care" puts that responsibility on the players not only once, but literally every time you want to play a game.
>>
>>44893723
People did that when points were still a thing.
>>
>>44893689
Because in AoS discussing/arguing with your opponent is the ONLY way to balance the game or build armies.

You cannot just take say a 1500 point army to the store and know that you can play it barring unusual circumstances.
>>
>>44893521
I'm not a shill, I just think that whfb was shit too, at least AoS is shit in a way that makes sense from GW's standpoint. They lowered the point of entry, they encourage people to buy eeeverything, they're cutting down on second hand and proxy models by swapping out old stuff or releasing entirely new stuff, and they're differentiating the warhammer setting from every random stereotypical fantasy. All of those goals make sense, and if AoS tanks, it tanks, but so did whfb so you can't say that it was any better from GW's perspective.

>>44893554
>>44893630
>>44893625
The difference is that now the rules explicitly give you the tool to influence what kind of game you're going to have with someone.
Before, all you had was "Uhmn, no, I don't think this will be a fun or even game, lets not play at all" when some guy started deploying his deathstar or whatever.
Decency was all you EVER had, since there hasn't been a balanced whfb since forever, and you were always at the mercy of your opponents ability to disconnect his humanity during listbuilding.

More importantly, AoS is unappealing for competitive players by virtue of simply being a shitty game in general. Who'd want to play that to win when the game is barely more than an excuse to show of your plastic men?
Is that good for anyone? Probably not, but neither was whfb, I'm just not dumb enough to think we lost anything of value except the fictional setting, and that is still out there in all the armybooks and novels and older editions.
>>
>>44892445
But then all the players also wait and see how it goes, and it becomes a self-fulfilling "nobody plays it because nobody plays it".

Chucking the old world in the bin pushes people to commit to the new game.
>>
>>44875493
I think at this point in time its aimed at whoever is stupid enough to shell out this kind of money for models that don't even have a game attached to them. So basically brain-dead GW-drones.
>>
>>44893729
Shut up, the players were already responsible for that.

>I want to go play at the store, I guess I'll have to bring 3 different lists in case I don't find any decent human beings to play the list I WANT to play with and have to bring out the spammy powerlist.

It's a hobby about painting little plastic soldiers and fighting with them, we would all be better off if people realized it's a pretty shitty outlet for your under-exercised competitive streak compared to computer games or other games with less arbitrary factors. If you want a tight rules-set, play some fucking starcraft instead of preying on the people who view it as a social hobby, which it is, rather than the arena where you can make up for failing at life by always buying the most OP army.
>>
>>44893689
>>44893705
Back then you could say "It is a regular army list, straight from the army book, with the correct point value and respecting the special limitations of this format/ tournament / shop."Now you can't. Of course you could already refuse games, but it's not exactly the same thing.
>>
>>44893778
Why do you people keep trotting out the same arguments.

WHFB used to be a good game, people stopped buying because they were waiting for GW to realise they fucked up. So stop being a smug shit who thinks he is so much smarter than everyone who liked the old game.
>>
>>44893798
The thread full of people actually defending WHFB.

They're all basically saying that getting fucked in the ass was awesome because it wasn't as painful as the current fisting edition.
>>
>>44881047
Haha! GW used to print "Buy 2, get the third boxed game FREE!" tokens in White Dwarf for store openings back in the early 90s.

In the late 90s they used to chuck random models in carrier bags and sell them cheap in their 'Summer Sale'. I still have a small SoB army from that period (£10 for two squada and the metal parts of an immolator.... they weren't selling well) and about 30 Diggas (they REALLY weren't selling well... :P)
>>
I wish this effort and time you guys spend bitching about a irredeemable shitty company that will never listen to you would instead go into supporting the threads of game systems you actually like.
But time and time again I see interesting war games being ignored to keep these guaranteed 310+ post threads chugging along with the same stuff we have heard time and time again.
>>
>>44893784
>Chucking the old world in the bin pushes people to commit to the new game.

The sad thing is GW was stupid enough to think that is how it would go.

>>44893821
>preying

Are you pretending to be a crazy person? The hobby side and the competitive side are meant to complement each other. Its a warGAME, its meant to be played to win as well as to have fun with the social and hobby aspects.

Kings of War has a tight, balanced ruleset for pushing plastic soldiers around and also gives people tons of fluff/modelling opportunities, if they can do it why can't GW? Why are you defending this lack of effort?
>>
>>44893835
>Why do you people keep trotting out the same arguments?

Because they're still true. Whfb was never a good game, it was a fun hobby but the glaring imbalances between army lists and some books being left in limbo until next editions definitely prevented it from having any sort of value from a mechanical OR competitive standpoint.

WHFB was a red-faced player who always runs the most powerful army book wondering in a squeaky voice why everyone is bitching about his OP list when it's perfectly legal and why they don't just make OP lists themselves, with their 1 editions old, no errata stillbirthed armybooks.
>>
>>44893885
So your argument is a stereotype, well done.

6th edition was a good game, it also had all the army books without a huge disparity in 'power'.
>>
>>44881047
You are actually retarded.
GW has 0 reason to make black friday ridiculous sales prices because A: the goods aren't seasonal, if you KNOW they're going to slash prices you can just wait and buy then while you finish painting the other 5 boxes in the cupboard. They don't need to clear inventory to make room for the newer products, they won't have to throw a lot of shit away, they don't have a bunch of stuff nobody wanted that they're desperately trying to get off the shelves so they at least won't have to throw it away (that might change now with AOS, but still)

A retarded stampede, half price black friday sale makes 0 sense for a company that sells a product like geedubs.
>>
>>44893837
I'm a tad bit tired of being called a "WHFB defender" for not liking AOS.

Maybe I just dislike this new 'game' even more than I disliked WHFB.

Maybe I'm just sad and angry that the most important manufacturer of miniature wargames produces such shit and pretends to get away with it.

Maybe I was actually hoping for a new game that could make Warhammer appealing again, with better miniatures, better rules and a new approach at things.

Maybe I'm just a delusional fag.

But pointing out how shitty AOS is and how much shittier than the heavily flawed WHFB it is, I'm absolutely not defending WHFB. Any person with a functioning brain should be able to understand that.
>>
>>44893907
6th edition with only ravening hordes was a decent game, not fantastic, but at least somewhat fair.

Once the army books started popping up it was back to shit again. Just compare the different elf armies to each other, jesus that was a mess.
>>
>>44893909
Everyone knows how shit it is. You aren't some great wise sage with an interesting point to say. You are a whining man child who can't push himself to move onto something else actually worth talking about.
>>
>>44887547
Oh god I forgot that was a thing!
>>
>>44893954
What did they do with the marine?
>>
>>44893909
Well then at least give yourself a shred of legitimacy by perhaps starting a discussion about how you would have saved the sinking ship or what edition of whfb was the ideal, anything other than just sounding like a whiny little bitch.

Every one of these threads is just people pointing and laughing at how retarded AoS is, while the elephant in the room is the fact that WHFB fucking tanked and made gw less money than paints and glue in the end.
>>
>>44884041
I got 2 stores in my area and none of them has an active 40k crowd, I think I have never seen any game except the default scenario being played. Warmahordes, X-Wing, 40k and KoW are the only ones getting some play.
>>
>>44893968
They cleaned him up a bit and he now stands inside the lobby, I think.
>>
>>44893985
Its not an 'elephant in the room', GW has nobody to blame for WHFB getting fewer sales than themselves.

Yet I still see mindless GW fanboys blaming the community for AoS as if they should have kept paying for a game going in a direction they disliked.
>>
>>44885121
Remember when basic infantry used to be around 1$/model ?
>>
>>44893821
Oh I see now, you're just mad at people who enjoy playing games for the game because you're shit.
>>
>>44894089
Its the same type of person who thinks making an optimised character in an RPG makes you a powergaming munchkin who doesn't roleplay.
>>
>>44893784
>Chucking the old world in the bin pushes people to commit to the new game.

That isn't Sigmar, or even owned by GW. It pushes them to a game that doesn't shit on the fanbase.
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>>44893968
>>44894054
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>>44894241
C-can I take him home? Thats statue abuse :C
>>
>>44894086
... I don't, and this makes me sad.
Back when I started infatry boxes were €25 and the skinks one had 24 skinks, and it was the lowest pricexmodel I've ever seen in GW.
>>
>>44875584
>IMO, It's being aimed at 40k players who never got into WHFB
Really? Because as a 40k player I'd been considering getting into Warhammer, but held off because of all the end time rumours about factions possible being axed.
Never going to start playing it now.
>>
>>44893488
>It's not like WHFB was better.
Well, it really was, since you could actually play.
>>
>>44893954
I can't forget.
>>
>>44877904
Read their financial report pal.

The only thing stopping a huge drop in profits last year was licensing royalties (video games).
>>
>>44875443
It's aimed at nobody.

It really doesn't have a target audience, because nobody is fucking buying their shit any more.
>>
>>44877904
They had a 15% drop in sales. Now that's the release of Age of Sigmar, Admech (fucking long awaited) and Battle of Calth.
Worth noting that it's the biggest drop they've ever had.
>>
>>44893885

>some books being left in limbo until next editions

This. This right here is exactly why Warhammer is, has been, and will always be a terrible game.

Please, list for me the number of games that are NOT Warhammer that do army releases like this. I can't think of a single fucking one, because it's the stupidest release concept ever. It is *literally* a relic from twenty plus years ago. Unambiguously.

Because of the stuttered release schedule, army lists remain un-updated for, sometimes, half a decade or more, leaving entire halves of the game languishing in the dust. Compare with almost every other miniatures game where the army lists are released in smaller chunks, with each army getting a few updates in each book, allowing each release to be playtested and balanced *as it's being released, against itself*. What an amazing concept.
>>
>>44894312
Out of curiosity, how much does a statue like that cost?
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>>44885679
>Dystopian Wars
Man I wish I was at your LGS.

Here it's all 40k, KoW/9th age (split hasn't been fully decided yet), Warmahordes, Bolt Action, Flames of War and Infinity.

I'd kill for some Dystopian Wars/Firestorm Armada. Wouldn't mind some Malifaux either.
>>
>>44894374
It's not free, so it cost them far too much.
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>>44894374
Depends if they used Citadel Premium Gold Spray Paint to paint it gold or not.
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>>44894374
Isn't it just plastic?
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>>44894312

El Presidente Gee Double U, the people wish to express their love and dedication to you.

They may of used different words
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>>44894414
may have you fuck
>>
I'd buy one of the varghasts if they sold them individually actually.

To serve as some kind of lord/centerpiece. Not buying all 3 however.
>>
>>44894401
Well if it was priced like their plastic minis, the tag could well be in the millions
>>
>>44894429
Get a box

You can make one into a vargheist and 2 crypt fiends to use as ogres in dnd or some shit

alternatively you can find them really fucking cheap on ebay
>>
>>44894414
>may of
I bet you're a native English speaker too.
>>
>>44893985
>while the elephant in the room is the fact that WHFB fucking tanked
>game used to be enjoyable
>fluff used to be good
>minis used to be affordable

>gee dubs shat on the ruleset
>gee dubs shat on the fluff
>gee dubs doubled all the prices
No wonder it tanked.
>>
>>44891772

I actually get the L Ron Hubbard vibe off Tom Kirby. Except instead of mainstream psychology vs Dianetics, it's mainstream business organisation vs Kirby. I have pieces from his "Little Black Book" of management at home, it's interesting to say the least.

And anyway, he still has his finger in the pie, and always will. The stuff you mention is because the new CEO, Kevin Rountree, is having a good shake up, because like Mark Wells before him (with Kirby's dodgy, weird Chairman-CEO role in between) he is a professional director with experience at FTSE companies. Wells had less autonomy though.

Kirby is back to just Chairman now, but he also, very conveniently, has taken up a "consulting" roll which pays him a nice fee on top of his salary. Him and his wife keep buying up shares too to keep riding on the dividend gravy train.
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>>44875584
Source? I'm sure you guys are saying AOS is tanking because you want it to fail so much you are deluding yourselves.

AOS is the future of GW.
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>>44875875
Hence the rebranding of the stores to "Warhammer"
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>>44894649

>AOS is the future of GW.

See >>44880773, if a new release pushes down your sales rather than boosts them, you have probably done something wrong.
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>>44876572
You mean a vocal minority on /tg/?
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>>44882370

The biggest legit companies are Onslaught Miniatures and vanguard miniatures.

Regarding actual recasters, one of the biggest has recently stopped his business and a local recaster here is working on making his sculpts available again, but it´s a slow process. Due to the nature of recasting I cant hand out any emails but try checking out any 6mm threads that popup.

We also have the resin guy here who has a nice collection of stuff.
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>>44894747

This, helps being on a few forums too. You often see people sculpting 40k units in 6mm scale, and sending them a sly PM to buy. All under the counter.
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>>44894824
I've seen pictures of people who have somehow done exact scaled down versions of existing models like Celestine, bolter sisters, seraphim and the terminator chaplain. I'd love to have stuff like that, but there's zero chance I'd ever play a game so stalking forums and such isn't worth the effort to me.

Still, cool to see pics of that kind of stuff pop up now and then. Like that email from trolls recently.
>>
>>44893630
60 chancellor of the dross deck
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>>44887919
I think this is good, the more games people play the more games can be made.
>>
>>44894868
I completely agree that the surge of lots of different games in the last couple of years has been great.

It just would be nice if well designed, reasonably priced, reasonably sized games of Warhammer/40k could be among the range of games available.
>>
>>44894868

Though the more games made, the more fragmentation there is. Especially with Kickstarter, so many games now that raise thousands, get a cool intro box and then just trail off.
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>>44894649
Yes, thousands of people are just pretending AoS is not being played where they live.
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>>44895025
AoS is selling so amazingly well I try to trick people by saying it's dead so they can't steal all the AoS stuff I want to buy!
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>>44893884
The Fluff of KoW is pretty bad though
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>>44894658
>>44895025
I guess you both have a point so.
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>>44895095
It does the job and its leagues better than AoS will ever be.

KoW is at its heart a game designed to let people make their own army converted and fluffed how they please. But not punish them with the rules when they do.
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>>44895095
Not really worse than early WHF, and leagues ahead of AoS. At least it includes all playable factions.
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>>44894323
>thread
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>>44894526
>gee dubs shat on the ruleset
Here we fucking go again, point out where you think whfb was a good game and people will line up to explain how and why you are wrong, it was always pretty shit, the only times it was remotely good was before army books started popping up. 6th edition with ravening hordes was kinda okay.
>gee dubs shat on the fluff
Oh what a tragedy. The tone of the setting was awesome, but two decades of trivia does not constitute some kind of treasure.
>fluff used to be good
Subjective, it used to take itself less seriously sure, but the development towards edgier and edgier owes everything to the fans.
>I must buy another grimderp sub-par fantasy novel, please churn out more
>gee dubs doubled all the prices
This one I can agree with, their pricing is retarded, and it, coupled with the move towards bigger and bigger model counts on the table was a major reason for whfb being so unattractive to get into.

On the other hand, without the ridiculous release schedules and overabundance of products GW would have had a harder time to stay on top, and the money has to come from somewhere.
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>>44894241
fucking rip
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>>44881049
>>44881097
Check out ebay. Look under "sold listings"
You're full of shit. You're right, it's not selling well, but do you have to completely pull stuff out of your ass to make your case?

Point me towards the 40 bucks per box deals and I'll buy a few just to have as a curiosity.
>>
>>44894241
>>44887547
This is the last straw. GW is officially dead to me.
>>
>>44895232
I have actually never seen anyone except you arguing that the 6th edition wasn't enjoyable as fuck to play. I'd agree it was unbalanced sometimes, but for all intents and purposes it was a good game.

>The tone of the setting was awesome, but two decades of trivia does not constitute some kind of treasure.
Well, in fact it does. That's why the license sells so well.
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>>44895044
>AoS
>doing well
>>
The final word on wether or not AoS does well has to be a resounding
>We don't fucking know.

GW doesn't publish their actual sales. The best we can try to do is guess based on the info they share with their shareholders.
On the other hand that is obviously doctored to make GW look like a good company to invest in.
Most obvious example in regards to AoS is GW forcing stores to take a pretty high number of AoS starters as minimum if they want to have any at all.
That way they could make sure that the sales number would look decent at the very least on the first report they're gonna make.

Aside from that we'll see what happens in the near future, i.e. after two years minimum since that is supposedly how far ahead they had releases lined up.
Unless AoS really spectacularly fails enough to warrant an intervention they're gonna keep following their plan.

And the old customers are obviously not the new target audience either so all the anecdotes I keep hearing about AoS doing fine or terrible don't really mean much either.

Tbh I can't imagine kids spending that much money on GW models or collectors forking out so much for ugly designs, so I'm kinda puzzled as to who their new audience is supposed to be exactly.
>>
>>44875462
>Because AoS isn't being aimed at little timmy

Are you kidding?

Candy land has a more complex set of rules.
>>
Lol this thread. Anyone who thinks GW hasnt painted itself into a corner is lying to themselves.

Its ok to say it, AoS is tanking hard. GW's 40k line is also struggling.

The writing is on the wall.
>>
>>44895272
>Enjoyable as fuck to play.

Yes, it was, because we were fucking teenagers back when we played it and we didn't spend as much time on bitter internet balance discussions.

But objectively, the game was not spectacular, it was honestly quite bland.
6th edition + ravening hordes was probably the fairest WHFB has ever been, just like 40k was at it's fairest when all you had was the BBB with all the armylists already in it, but it was not by a longshot GW's best game, and it relied on the setting and the GW machine to draw people in. If they had released it today we would have torn it to shreds in a thread almost as dumb as this one.

So much of the "it used to be better" gw nostalgia stems from the fact that we didn't have hundreds of people screaming on the internet and pointing out all the very real flaws and fuckups of the systems back when we still played for fun.

I don't ever remember a time when I couldn't just sit down and write a legal list that resulted in games that felt completely wrong and like someone fucked up in playtesting, or where we could both look at the table and know it was over before it started. This was also true back in the days of 6th edition or 40k BBB, but the difference was that at least there wasn't yet any crazy army-specific brokenness that trumped the other armies brokenness.
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>>44895886
>It's over, GW is dying!

Literally every single edition released had people screaming "this is it guys, there's no way they're pulling through, it was so much better before"

I agree that AoS is a fuckup, but we don't know yet if it'll matter. I mean. Every edition has been kind of fucked up and people have proven again and again that they don't care as long as there's enough skulls and bigass pauldrons, which is why we now have fantasy 40k instead of warhammer.
>>
>>44896030
I don't think any edition of WHFB caused signs to go up telling GW gamers to fuck off at LGS's. Never caused people to quit 40k in fear of what is to come as well.

Yet this is the level of backlash AoS is getting. And even with Betrayal at Calth selling like hot cakes their sales fell.
>>
>>44896161
I'm pretty sure it did, New Edition Rage is all too common with things this popular.
>>
>>44893860
Nobody discusses the games I like, my threads hit 404 without a single post.
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>>44893909
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>>44895263

everyone who can use the sold listings + price limit fields can do that anon:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-age-of-sigmar-starter-set-see-description-/111869965793?hash=item1a0bf835e1:g:2c8AAOSwZG9WkQgD

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WARHAMMER-Age-Of-Sigmar-Box-Opened-Citadel-Miniatures-Complete-/172016368211?hash=item280cf97a53:g:0MgAAOSwp5JWXgaK

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Starter-Box-Set-New-Factory-Sealed-NIB-LOOK-Must-See-/401023887785?hash=item5d5ee2e9a9:g:jmsAAOSwDNdVpDOo

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Starter-Set-Skarr-Bloodwrath-and-Basing-Kit-/201474489789?hash=item2ee8d0bdbd:g:9x8AAOSwHQ9WWJnR

can't post more bc 4chan thinks it's a spam, see it for yourself
>>
>>44895263
It was linked earlier in the thread, $40 on Amazon, the biggest retailer on Earth. They only have four copies but it hasn't become unavailable, meaning they are keeping their stock low because demand is almost non-existant.
>>
>>44895687
They can't doctor their stock prices, and they're barely keeping their heads above water as a traded company.
The stuff they show investors is pretty grim too, to the point that they're trying not to mention any numbers at all.
>>
>>44896161
>HAHA, I saw the report, they're making less profit than usual at the same time as they've spent fucktons on new releases and basically replacing a huge part of their line, they're for sure going down guys, because a guy in a thread said that people are even quitting 40k because of AoS!

Everyone agrees that GW isn't doing well, but we've had this discussion every fucking time starting with like, 4th edition when there was enough people on the forums to bitch about it.

5% of the the fan base write 90% of the forum posts, people patting eachother on the back in some kind of weird sadistic glee and agreeing that geedubs is finished are not actually indicative of how things will turn out.

If we had been right about anything, GW would have collapsed in on itself in a black hole of dreadful around the time the first Tau Codex came out.

GW players have literally been born, grown up, and discovered the game between when we were really, really sure GW had fucked up beyond all recognition, and now and they're still here.

I get that people want to gloat, but threads like these are full of exaggerations and outright lies (lol, they're selling AOS starter boxes at a loss!) and while talking about how shitty we think the game is is totally /tg/ and a worthwhile endeavor, it's not really serving any purpose to try to inflate that fact by also prophesying GW's ultimate doom.

Maybe they'll kick the bucket this time, but we've had the discussion already endless times for more than fifteen years, and we've wasted our breath every single time.
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They created a setting where Khorne gets a boner from Sigmar's manliness, Nurgle's plagues can be 100% cleansed and anything can be restored to an unscarred pure state by Lizardman blood, Tzeentch is now Tzeentched by Slann who are omniscient and unknown to anyone, Slaanesh was kidnapped by Elves, the comedy relief fuckup villain sidekick was promoted to big bad, the god of Death is a cackling wizard who can't be permanently defeated, Daemons are part of Order, but Chaos still wins in the end because their biggest model smashes universes with his fist.
Everything can be undone at any time because some asshole in Chaos can travel time and do whatever he wants, but will always be unhappy about the result because he's a living monkey's paw with the middle finger stuck.

Let that sink in, everybody.
>>
>>44897108
Every single fucking one of your examples are either opened/used products or bidding with no reserve, which obviously results in lower prices, and you're trying to pass it off as being the norm. It's disingenuous and kind of pathetic.

You can see plenty of examples of starter boxes going for regular prices (80usd+) being bought daily, so you're still full of shit.
>>
>>44896030

GW had a 2-3% drop for like 10 years now.

Last report was a 15% drop.

AoS is literally killing them.
>>
>>44897297
>>HAHA, I saw the report, they're making less profit than usual at the same time as they've spent fucktons on new releases and basically replacing a huge part of their line, they're for sure going down guys, because a guy in a thread said that people are even quitting 40k because of AoS!


you are literally retarded. the historical 15% loss in sales has nothing to do with their costs. in fact, given all the new shit sales should be up

hell, the CEO even predicts further drop for the end of the year. that's what really fucked up, biggest loss ever, and they have no sm codex/8th 40k planned for q1-q2, so the ceo expects he matter fromg going worse from WORST
>>
>>44875443

Who is this damn game even aimed at?

It looks like WoW. A dying game with aesthetics appealing to 12-14y old boys.

Are they really expecting dumb MMO kids to buy incredibly overpriced figures and paint them?
>>
>>44897397

>Warhammer-Age-of-Sigmar-Starter-Box-Set-New-Factory-Sealed-NIB-LOOK-Must-See
>New-Factory-Sealed-NIB
>Factory-Sealed


yeah, you are full of shit. there have been 2 aos starters going over $80 the last few weeks, the most recent one sold in fucking 5th of december last year, in fucking AUSTRALIA, where it was a deal thanks to the mongoloid GW pricing. the regular price is between $50 and $75

hell, even amazon has it for $60-70, what the fuck are you talking about?
>>
>>44895741
just because it's simple doesn't mean it's for kids, just look at chess and similar games
>>
does it really matter if the AoS box sells at 45% or 60% discount? both are fucking terrible for such a new product
>>
>>44875443
>€80

For that price I can buy a 5 times larger, just as detailed and already painted animu fig.

Are they crazy?
>>
>>44880638
Profit = / = sales
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>>44897553
Even if you compare it other AoS stuff it's kind of a bad deal. You can get a brand new starter with over 50 miniatures for that money. For the same system.
>>
>>44897593
For that price I can get 80 dorfs from Divine rage in resine, GW is crazy.
>>
>>44891977
>it's still completely against the Kirby era
Afaik he was pretty much in charge from the early 90s. So unless you're a true oldbeard, everything you've seen Geedubs do, including the time you presumably liked them, was within the Kirby era.
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>>44897397
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>>44897725
For context.
>>
>flying golden homos and KHORNEBLOODGORECARNAGEMAYHEM

was the AoS starter the worst one GW ever produced?
>>
>>44897812

Don't worry. Now you can buy flaming half naked giant homo midgets.
>>
>>44897812
They killled WHFB for AoS, so obviously yes.
>>
>>44897844
I wonder if they finally did market research, saw their biggest demographic called each other autistic faggots, and simplified the rules and fluff to Sonic levels while focusing on burly Luchadores and naked bears as models?
>>
File: image.jpg (178 KB, 500x653) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
image.jpg
178 KB, 500x653
>>44897725
>>44897741
>8e is still selling for the price it was new
>Age is 50% off
Lollercoaster.
>>
>>44891676

https://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GAW.L+Interactive#{%22range%22:%22max%22,%22allowChartStacking%22:true}
>>
>>44898009

actually, the 8th starter is now at 150% of their original MSRP
>>
>>44898009
>>44898200
tbf, part of that is because the 8th edition one is now not being produced anymore, but that is still pretty kek
>>
>>44897987
>Simplified the rules and fluff to Sonic levels
Wow, you sure have a high opinion of AOS's rules and fluff.
Thread replies: 313
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