Best art edition.
What do you think /l5r/, what is the single worst Courtier school in 4th edition? The Asako Loremaster or the Ikoma Bard?
That ninja chick will soon get the fisting of her life.
Also, that Unicorn disguising himself as a Spider is very subtle. You are supposed to change the clan colors too, Shinjo-sama!
Also completely unrelated, doesn't anyone else find the description of scorpion ninja as outlined in the Great Clans book jarring with the actual mechanical benefits for playing one? The Gauntlet all shinobi nooblets must go through seems all but aimed at teaching them the valuable lesson of "See these mythical ninja implements? They're useless as SHIT, now go run around in black pyjamas to create a distraction for the actual shinobi doing their job, and try not to die instantly kthxbye". This while the Shosuro Infiltrator and Shadow Blades schools provide pretty real and tangible benefits for using these supposedly useless ninjutsu weapons.
Is it much harder for anyone else to make maps for cities in this game than others? Also related, does anyone else hate having/needing to make maps. It's like the worst part of being a GM IMO.
Part of the issue is that ninja are treated like how ronin are treated; like garbage, because Wick either hates them or maybe simply likes finding reasons to punish people who do not select his pre-approved choices.
I think the LACK of ninja in the setting (beyond "maybe this is true, but you'll never hear about it in canon" options) is one of the more wasted potentials in Rokugan. I've never particularly wanted to play a ninja myself but "hidden ninja clans in the mountains" is kind of a major recurring thing in the genre the setting seeks to emulate, and they make for good villain characters.
Oh, speaking of which the Glory chart is messed up where ninjas are concerned. According to it all ninja have Infamy 10, which means anyone who's a ninja can be recognized in a roll of 5 or more.
>Is it much harder for anyone else to make maps for cities in this game than others
Not really. Watch enough Jidaigeki and Chanbara films and you have it figured out pretty easily. It helps to remember that "towns" in most cases have a few buildings in the center and then 99% of the rest of the area will be farmlands.
Also, that is a LOT bigger then I thought Kyuden Suzume's fortress-town would be.
I actually really like the idea of a family of ninjas hidden in the mountains, maybe as an extra-secret Scorpion family or a minor clan established by an emperor long ago and known only by a select few.
...You know, with all the minor clans these threads have made so far, what about adding a minor ninja clan to the mix?
Eh, maybe something a little more "silent killer"-y. Scorpion's already taken and I'm not sure if there's a Viper clan already, any ideas?
Also, do we want them to be a hidden community in the mountains that no one knows about, or do we want them to be a little more in-line with real life ninjas and have them actually be posing as a normal peasant village in the Dragon clan's mountains?
Doesn't even need to be a Samurai Clan, honestly.
The "the only things that happen anywhere in the Empire are Imperial-or-Clan mandated" thing is is a huge annoyance in L5R, because it's clearly just a way to ALWAYS make the CCG relevant, because of a faction isn't mentioned in the CCG it doesn't exist or isn't important.
Really, the traditional "Ninja Clan" thing is more like a ronin family, it doesn't need an official stamp on it. Especially since it would exist to perform illegal acts.
The Koga Family are all peasants who are "Robin Hood killers", meaning that assassinate samurai who abide their power.
The Hateru are a former Ki-Rin family that got harassed by the Lion until they went into Dragon lands and became ninja assassins for hire. They send most of their money back to the village.
The Sesai are actually a branch of the Shiba family who do ninja stuff for the Phoenix (mostly the Shiba since the shugenja are too busy having their heads up their own....sorry, "being concerned with spiritual matters") on the sly.
In the homebrew setting of my gaming club, there are five independent Ninja Clans:
- The Razor is the killy ninja clan. They are assassins and stealthy terror troops, and they murder the living shit out of everyone. They also tend to do this quite bloodily.
- The Silver is the generic ninja clan. They are your basic shinobi who do a little bit of everything. They are by far the largest Ninja Clan, and they tend to get the best out of this advantage by using large numbers of operatives all the time.
- The Whisper is the spy and infiltrator ninja clan. Their specialty is acquiring information, gathering intel, and infiltrating organizations to subvert them. They are not very killy though.
- The Aspect is the good guy ninja clan. Where the other clans do their stuff for money, the Aspect do ninja things to right the wrong and protect the innocent/weak.
- The Hollow is the mystic ninja clan. They use Kiho and shit, being more like monks than straight-out ninja. They are also super-enigmatic even by ninja standards and often do their job in weird ways. Obviously, they are big friends with the Dragon Clan.
Bumping with a not-exactly-related-but-still-pretty-darn-cool pic
Hey /L5R/, I've got a Yasuki Courtier who is Rank 2 and approaching Rank 4 (hasn't had time to get training). He's sort of a pretty-boy fuck-up who has ended up in charge of his family estate and pending his survival in this war he started, he'll be returning home wealthy and powerful.
I'm curious as to if I should make him attend a different school or not; as he's not Crab Clan, his family just sort of has ties with them (we're a made-up minor Clan in general; we also have Lion, Scorpion and Crane ties due to proximity). He'll be switching over from being a sort of schmoozing naive Chris Traeger diplomat into something....else, but I don't quite know what.
Assuming he could enter training with any school of those clans (and the kid has decent ties with the Scorpion at the moment), what do you think might be best for keeping him alive as a guy who runs an estate? He's good with numbers, seduction, intimidation, apologies, lying and telling the truth. He is slowly getting religious. Has Paragon of Courtesy and Dangerous Beauty.
You failed your Lore: Shadowlands or Lore: Unicorn Clan check. That is a Dark Moto not a Spider, grasshopper.
They may have Infamy 10, but that is only when they are running around in their black pajamas. It is kinda like the Emperor's Glory, it is 10 when he is accompanied by his Entourage, but drops to a 5 when he is solo.
My next character is a Scorpion, and she's wearing a full face mask. My question is, how do Scorpion who wear these masks eat and drink during meal times without revealing their faces? I was thinking they might carry an alternate mask that only covers the top half of their face, but that just seems kind of odd to me, as the masks are so symbolic and personal (for the Bayushi, at least, and my character is one of them), it would just seem weird to have another one.
You can actually eat with the mask on, it only has to have a gap at your chin. And it most likely has one, because you can't speak normally otherwise.
For drinks, use a straw. Not a pleb-tier straw, but some sort of super-cool straw that forms a scorpion or something.
Friendly reminder that we will probably never learn whether Iweko Miaka is really a Tattooed Monk or not.
The daughter of Empress Iweko. She is a nerd princess who might or might not have magical tattoos all over her body under those thick robes.
In the card game, she was also an exceptional duelist, though this was some unintended hilarity from the creators' part.
She is actually traditional japanese from head to toe. Here, have the pic that inspired that specific piece of art.
Question: what the hell is a "shiotome" anyway? That's not Japanese for "battle maiden" is it? I can't find a reference to the meaning anywhere online and I don't speak enough Japanese to know if it's a real thing or not.
I think it is pre-Heian. It is reeeeeeaaallllyyy old.
Shiodome is a feminine name (it means "where the tides stop" or something like that), and Shiotome looks like its corrupted form.
>I think it is pre-Heian. It is reeeeeeaaallllyyy old.
That explains why it's so unfamiliar to me.
>Shiodome is a feminine name
....then why are they using it for an entire group of warrior women? It's like calling them "Utaku Bobs" or "Utaku Jane" or something.
>....then why are they using it for an entire group of warrior women? It's like calling them "Utaku Bobs" or "Utaku Jane" or something.
AEG's naming conventions basically boil down to "take this old J-E dictionary we're not totally sure how to use and slap together whatever sounds cool."
Trying to put any more logic or meaning to it beyond that is just an exercise in frustration and confusion.
Sorry, but I've been seeing a lot of that shit on /tg/ lately. Is /a/ just traveling over here and referencing a series around 13 years old still or something else I'm not getting?
I don't really mind either way, it's just been awhile since I've been in /tg/ and the "desu" stuff was significantly less common when I was last here.
Fair enough, that'd been true.
It's a wordfilter for a shitty twitterspeak meme. There are a couple others. They all translate to weeb words, which is a significant improvement by virtue of being funny if nothing else.
Should have been Iweko 2, but the story has been derp since inception.
So I realize that everybody's got their own resources and sheets and you can get a L5R character sheet on Roll20 now and stuff, but I've been making the sheets on Google Docs for my group of buddies since we started playing and I'm always changing and adjusting them between campaigns to make them easier to use. I just wanted to make something more streamlined and easier to read. Here's what I have for the latest version that you can copy and use for your own L5R games (to print them you need 8.5x14" legal sized paper). Also, I'm open to any ideas or suggestions you guys might have or any tendencies you have for your own game's sheets.
Traditionally yes, duels are fought with katana.
However there have been exceptions, such as the duel between Hida Yakamo and Mirumoto Satsu where Yakamo brought along his tetsubo to the duel and proceeded to club Satsu to death.
It's worth noting that everyone thought Yakamo was a piece of shit for doing so, it's just that Hitomi was the only one who went a little crazy over it. It's worth further noting that Yakamo didn't give a fuck, he had more important things to do.
I always wondered how Yakamo could get away with that duel. He obviously shat all over the duel, de-facto murdering Satsu rather than killing him legally. Was it really just Togashi being an asshole because of "MUH FORESIGHT"?
IIRC, the fans almost made her the next Empress, but the story team sabotaged the effort by fucking up the Winter Court.
I think a poetry contest between two courtiers is actually a thing that can happen, but more typically they'd just get their yojimbo to duel, and the yojimbo would agree on the weapons.
>>Yakamo being allowed to use a tetsubo in an Iaijutsu duel
You do know that Yokuni came to Satsu before the duel and told him if he kills Yakamo he'd doom the Empire because he'd be killing the Crab Thunder and with that knowledge Satsu took one for the Empire and let Yakamo win, right?
So /l5r/ what's that one samurai you've always wanted to play? What's his or her ultimate goal?
I've always wanted to play a crane who's basically Lady Snowblood.
Hah! Our group had a player who basically did that once! She's a REALLY classic manga and anime fan, so the reference was probably entirely deliberate.
She even named her "Doji Yukiko"; "Snow-Girl".
Wow Satan, that ass is truly one that will not quit.
I've always wanted to play a ronin trained in the Tengu Swordsman school who keeps the true nature of his training a secret, and largely wanders Rokugan playing the role of "Man With No Name."
If that raised any warning flags for you then you can clearly see why I've never played the concept.
Probably a Crane from the Asahina family. They're absolutely devoted pacifists and to have a samurai obsessed with bloodshed come out their family would be intensely shameful to them.
That doesn't really prove which courtier is better at their skill, though; that just proves which of them has the better yojimbo. Besides, poetry duels sound like they'd be much more fun, especially if the point of the duel is to cram as much passive-aggressive insults into it as possible.
Especially if their yojimbo beatboxes as they recite it.
That is maybe the stupidest shit I have ever had the chance to read. I mean, really? If Yakamo had died, they could have just chosen another Crab Thunder... like someone who could have actually done something rather than got his ass knocked out in the first five seconds.
I recommend you read the articles concerning iaijutsu in the core book and the book of air. They may be able to help.
Also iaijutsu duel results are considered the will of the heavens, and can't be argued against. Yes, it might appear unfair than the Kenshinzen is a better duellist than your yojimbo, but that's how the society and culture are structured.
>they could have just chosen another Crab Thunder
I think there's more to it then that. I believe it's a reincarnation thing?
But yeah, basically Togashi is Wick personified; obsessed with control, likes his cryptic prophecies way too much, tells you things will happen because he said so and then you just have to deal with it.
>That doesn't really prove which courtier is better at their skill, though; that just proves which of them has the better yojimbo.
That's not why people have iaijutsu duels, and in fact not why Rokugani have duels in general in the setting.
Duels are fought to determine who is wrong and who is right, so whoever actually fights the duel for you is irrelevant if you're a courtier as it counts as your win and your argument being correct if your yojimbo succeeds.
former L5R TCG player (stopped a little after they released diamond changed how imperial favor worked so something like 2003)
how much has the story changed?
Is fu leng the bad guy.
How have the clan evolved? is toturi still on the throne?
Did the game go full weaboo etc etc
What happens if someone who is not a duelist is challenged to a duel and there isn't someone from their own clan there to step in as champion? Is the poor bastard forced to duel himself or is it held off until a member of his clan can arrive??
They have to get word to their clan or find someone willing to be their second and side with them in the argument I believe; it almost never comes up in fluff (if there's a duel challenged in the fiction chances are basically 100% that both are already duelists or one has a yojimbo), but that's basically how it would work.
It helps that a legal duel doesn't happen right away; if you challenge a guy to a duel and then fight him right there, it's illegal and you're basically committing assault on another samurai though some of the more martial clans might look the other ways if it's a matter of honor. Normally you deliver the challenge then agree upon a place and time after a cooling-off period and THEN a duel happens, which is enough time to find a proxy duelist if you need one.
Honestly though, it shouldn't come up. Unlike in Japan where there was a long period of history where many samurai weren't competent fighters, there's basically only three types of samurai in Rokugan; bushi (who should be able to fight), courtiers (who should always have a bodyguard because they live in a dangerous country), and shugenja (who you aren't supposed to challenge to duels anyway unless you're also a shugenja).
>Wait, were they shooting at targets or each other?
The book doesn't say, but since it's explicitly a duel and not a generic contest, I would assume at each other. ?I don't know how you would duel to first blood in that case, though.
They could look for someone nearby to stand as their champion, since your champion doesn't have to be another member of your clan; they could ask a close friend or even pay a ronin if they felt they had to. If they really couldn't find a champion nearby, they might be allowed to wait for one depending on the circumstances of the duel, but if the situation is grave enough they probably COULD be forced to handle it themselves.
Even then, though, you always have the option of conceeding; even if a courtier id forced to stand for himself, he can never be forced to actually FIGHT. However, depending on the circumstances of the duel again, he might be expected to commit seppuku if he does concede.
If a non-shugenja wanted to challenge a shugenja, could they get another shugenja to stand as their champion in the same way courtiers can get a yojimbo? Or would that be considered frivolous and weird?
Generally samurai don't challenge shugenja for the same reason they don't give danzan (official punishment for offense) to monks who offend them even though monks aren't considered samurai anymore; it's a significant m social taboo to challenge what amounts to a holy man AND a samurai at the same time.
Arguments with shugenja are solved mostly through words (shugenja are rare and valuable to a clan so their lives aren't thrown away over small grievances), but it seems that tariyu-jai duels are basically for disagreements BETWEEN shugenja.
Generally speaking samurai like everything to be in it's proper place in their society and let matters of each strata take care of themselves within in the strata. That's why ronin offend many of them (samurai who don't have masters and often have to hold jobs like lower-class heimin) and why the Dragon Clan confuses and pisses them off (they're samurai who are monks who can also be shugenja).
>The book doesn't say, but since it's explicitly a duel and not a generic contest, I would assume at each other. ?I don't know how you would duel to first blood in that case, though.
I think it's just a regular archery contest, and that there is no "first blood".
Remember, the Wasp even when they wear swords again after becoming part of the Mantis have a prevailing undercurrent of belief that Bushido and all things that stem from if (including the way of the sword and iaijutsu) are full of hypocrisies that they personally can't stand; this is why Tsuruchi are generally considered fairly moral but start with relatively low Honor in most cases.
So maybe duels are just archery contests and nobody bleeds or dies because the Wasp think that shit's stupid, just like they think a LOT of things samurai do are fairly stupid.
Even so, I can't imagine that two Tsuruchis have NEVER wanted a duel to the death. History is long, and they're still people even if they're largely more virtuous than other samurai.
Tsuruchis aren't the only archers, either. The Unicorn have people dedicated Yomanri, the Asahina have an archery dojo, plenty of monks do Taoist Archery...
Even if the majority of disputes between archers are resolved without bloodshed (which I agree is likely, since they're mostly good-guy Tsuruchi, pacifist Asahina, or monks), it just seems supremely unlikely that two archers have never shot arrows at each other in the context of a duel.
>Is fu leng the bad guy.
The millennia old god-child of the sun and moon killed himself to save some kid he adopted.
Honestly, in a franchise full of blatant author favoritism and bad writing, Daigotsu was easily the worst. The entire storyline from Gold onward is essentially the entire setting being rewritten to accommodate him.
>Honestly, in a franchise full of blatant author favoritism and bad writing, Daigotsu was easily the worst.
Nah. Shosuro Kachiko is still worse. Daigotsu only warped Rokugan, Kachiko's rampage on the other hand also kicked the Burning Sands in the guts.
The whole "Togashi asked Satsu to lose" was an invention of Ree Soesbee in the Clan War novel series that Wizards of the Coast made, it was later retconned in as canon during Diamond Edition. The 1E books suggest that Yakamo just bashed Satsu in the face during the duel and everyone was too terrified do anything afterwards
Satsu was still pretty stupid to accept the conditions. Maybe he wasn't thinking since Yakamo was going to beat up his wife for talking shit.
Fuck, I wish the Toturi was still around considering Iweko I so far.
>Unicorn and Mantis attempted a coup to overthrow me? Oh well, they had the best intentions, full pardons
>I've made a deal to allow the Spider Clan to become a Great Clan so that the taint doesn't spread to unwilling individuals! I'm cool, right?
>Oh, Lord of Jigoku had the taint spread anyway, but just benign so no one knew? Lol, I knew, so with my powers granted by Tengoku, I prevented the taint from spreading to those with an honorable and loyal heart! Cause I can totally do that, right?
Hope this shit gets retconned. Was it this bad before? I'm a newfag to L5R (around the beginning of Emperor edition)
The original Clan War arc was pretty rad, everything else just was kind of downhill from there.
The reasons for the clans to keep fighting kept on getting more and more contrived, and it didn't help that the winning clan/faction's victory would be unmade the next arc to keep the story going.
If they really wanted to kill each other, they probably wouldn't frame it as a duel. One would string his bow and take aim and the other could either try to take cover like a bitch or string his own bow and fire back.
Question: There are (from what I can tell) a few ninja or ninja-enough schools in this game. Shosuro Infiltrator, Shosuro Actor, Ikoma Lion's Shadow, and the Spider are shit so we're not bothering with them. Are there any other ninja/ninja-like schools? Which one is the most
Really, any "scout" school or path could function as cut-rate ninja if they really needed to, but Hiruma Scouts in particular can easily double as ninja with near-supernatural stealth. Daidoji Harriers are so ninja-like that they actually use the Ninja tag for game mechanic purposes.
The full list of [Ninja] keyword schools are; Daidoji Spymaster (Iron Warrior/Scout alternate), Daidoji Harrier (Advanced), Shosuro Infiltraitor, Shadow Blade (alternate of Bayushi Bushi and Shinobi), Scorpion Saboteur, and the Ronin ones; Koga Ninja, Hateru Ninja, Kolat Assassin.
Interestingly, it's the Harriers that most resemble what ninjas actually did in real life.
You know, I'd probably do that by giving him a Dependent for his son but also giving him a Kharmic Tie to him to represent how his son is pretty much an active contributed to Itto's fights.
>"Father knows Son and Son knows Father! Your fate and mine are bound, Daigoro!"
>>I think there's more to it then that. I believe it's a reincarnation thing?
It is a pseudo-reincarnation thing. At the time of the Second Day of the Thunder some of the Thunders were still alive, Hida Atarasi (as an Akutenshi) and Shosuro (kept locked up in a crystal box by the Dragon). It is a matter of a soul's destiny. The original Crane Thunder was supposed to be one of a set of twins but Fu-Daddy got him before the Day of Thunder, but since twins share a soul the other twin was able to step up for the Crane. Had Yakamo been killed by Satsu, there would have been no Crab Thunder and possibly no Dragon one as well as Hitomi would not have been the driven warrior that she became because of her father's death.
>>Togashi is Wick
No, the prophet whose words appear on the "Doom of the x" cards, Uikku, is Wick.
If they are a bushi they are shit out of luck and have to defend their own honor, the only exceptions being really high ranking people, like Imperials, being able to call on the Emerald Champion or someone in a similar position.
>Hitomi would not have been the driven warrior
That's an interesting way to say "Shadow-corrupted half-crazy PTSD fuck-up". With Satsu winning, Hitomi could have been a healthy person who actually knows her shit.
And literally nobody would have missed Yakamo. Dude could barely give an angry stare to Fu Leng before he got his butt incapacitated.
Just curious; is an Utaku Saddle Cutter supposed to be akin to a Zhanmaodao/Zanbatou, given the obvious foreign influences on the various Unicorn groups?
Well, technically Amaterasu committed jigai and Yakamo didn't kill her himself.
He also had to die and become part of the Akasha before he did it, though that might be incidental and he actually could've done it as a mortal and it was Amaterasu's giving up her position that allowed him to become Lord Sun.
Which he was only capable of because of what he encountered and did. Nobody else could have. He was also pretty important for getting the Crab in general back on track, which was a big deal in the fights leading up to Thunders 2: Electric Boogaloo.
Huh. It's possible I think.
The description (more metal then a katana, thicker blade, same basic shape, solid disc for guard) is pretty similar, and "Saddle Cutter" is technically another correct way to say "Zhanmadao/Zanbatou" ("Horse-Cutting Sword").
The Zhanmadao/Zanbatou was an anti-cavalry weapon rather then one used from horseback in real life, but that's about the sort of mistake I'd expect for L5R anyway, so the theory fits.
I'm not really arguing for or against Yakamo here actually, that's a different anon. I don't really see much point in arguing over the usefulness of a plot point made well over a decade ago at this point in time.
Well, the Japanese (And yes, Rokugan is like Japan except where it's not) used anti-cavalry weapons from horseback (The no-dachi/o-dachi in particular was used on foot to cut down cavalry and on horseback as a ride-by weapon), so that could just be a Rokugani influence on how they use the weapon.
>Nobody else could have.
Actually a lot of people could have, he just happened to be at the right place at the right time with a good enough CV.
Sorry to burst your bubble, fanboy.
Sure, a lot of people had the Jade Hand, happened to come across Amaterasu while she was moping, had celestial backing from other sources, and had kharmic ties with the person who would become the Moon.
Now explain how anyone else could do that while also having the unique Jade Hand attached to a stump, having the power of a Thunder, and having a kharmic tie with Hitomi (Who had Thunder power and the Obsidian Hand)
Doesn't change the fact that he did it and no one else in the setting was capable of it.
Saying that it would have been different if the writers wrote it differently is meaningless.
I want to try and run an L5R campaign, but the last time I tried a one-shot, it died utterly horribly within the first few minutes when everyone got into a swordfight and died.
Are there any good pre-made advenutres that people would recommend so I can understand a bit more about how the setting and traditional campaign structure works in L5R?
"Topaz Championship" is pretty much the L5R Tutorial Adventure. Like it's specifically written to introduce virtually every game mechanic a little at a time.
After that I recommend "Legacy of Disaster" from the Free RPG Day preview, then one from the GM screen.
You could probably easily run all three as a campaign in that order.
What >>44951331 says.
Remember that 3-on-3 odds in L5R is very much like 3-on-3 odds in real life and that both sides usually have a relatively even chance of getting killed, so keep numbers low and encourage PC's to think with their heads and not with their swords.
It's possible for more powerful samurai to fight multiple foes at once, but this requires controlling the battlefield so that the actual people to engage them at any one time don't get too crazy.
> but this requires controlling the battlefield so that the actual people to engage them at any one time don't get too crazy.
Or for certain techniques to proc so they get huge bonuses.
I find in actual play anything below TN30 is still relatively easy to hit by even basic enemies a little over half of the time.
It's why I houseruled the old 3e rules for the Defense skill (at Novice rank you can add it to your TN while in Attack stance) back in; it's a nice bonus but too small to dramatically change anything but extremely close roles in most cases.
That's why my favorite basic bushi school is Hiruma Bushi. Wolf's Little Lesson and Hummingbird Wings is a nasty combination for anything to fight, nevermind a bunch of low-rank mooks.
TN 35 (+10 vs first attack) at round 1, TN 60 (+10) by round 3 is not something you want to be facing down.
The Hiruma are one of my favorite families in general.
Nobody expects the Crab player to be a good fencer and archer who's quick on his feet, and with a Kaiu Blade they can do as much damage as any Hida with a tetsubo.
>Nobody expects the Crab player to be a good fencer and archer who's quick on his feet
They would if that actually knew anything about L5R at all, then they'd be aware that clans further break down into families who each have their own unique stereotypes.
In all fairness, the CCG itself tends to heavily promote certain stereotypes or mislead people about the fluff with art.
I've seen many pictures of Hiruma family cards where the character on the card is a huge muscleman wielding a heavy-looking weapon rather then a lean, rangy swordfighter.
It's sorta like how nearly EVERY Crane clan character has dyed hair even though the fluff says not all Crane do it and it's mostly found among the Daidoji or how the only colors any character ever seems to wear is often directly relevant to his Clan; the CCG thrived off promoting stereotypes (artistically speaking that is) and a lot of the intricacies are overlooked in favor of making it easier to draw a physical picture or sell a faction.
I think of it like learning about any cool setting; you learn the broad strokes and you miss the details, but some people are introduced via the broad strokes and don't spend much time learning about the group's that didn't immediately appeal to them.
Well, to be fair, it's pretty likely that most Hiruma train in the Hida bushi school. The two Hiruma schools are better for scouts and various security roles (Yojimbo, castle guards, magistrates, ect) and the Crab needs more heavy line infantry than any of those.
Everyone who has an art group separate from the writing group has shit art direction as far as I can tell.
Anyway, my point being is that you can't deny plenty of people get or got into the RPG via the CCG, and the CCG art can be pretty misleading about a lot of stuff.
Could be. Makes sense too.
But I'm not really talking about fluff reasons, I'm talking about how smart shows one thing and then the fluff says another, so you kinda get folks who think all Crab are pants-less shirt-less wrestler guys, even among a few Crab players,
So far the thinnest and leanest Crab I've seen are universally the women, for reasons that are pretty easy to surmise.
Fair enough on all points.
Still though I think anyone who didn't read the family descriptions when making a character and immediately go "hey, the families break down into individual personality stereotypes as well!" is a fucking retard.
I know TONS of players from early on in the RPG who were CCG players and barely read the descriptions past the individual families at all and just played the "basic" Bushi school for each one, since that tended to be what attracted them to that faction in the first place.
I guess in the case of the Hiruma it didn't help that early on in the RPG there WAS no Hiruma Bushi School because their ancestral fortress was still "lost" and they just had scouts and berserkers, with berserkers by far being more played among people I knew.
This is way back in the late 90's and early 00's of course; afterwords they either got to know more about the setting or alternativly stuck with what they knew. It's kind of a 90's-esque setting anyway (bad Japanese, metaplot everywhere, CCG tie-ins, significant sales drop as the years went on) and that's definitely the decade where it had it's heyday, so I guess you get plenty of older setting fans who basically just stopped caring after various degrees of "not muh" set in.
Which was probably pretty easy to invoke in people given how many moronic storyline and plot twists were had.
It can be a lot more forgiven with 1e players where the Hiruma back then effectively were an alternative Hida. I don't see how it's possible with modern players outside of being too lazy to even bother to learn the setting beyond the broadest strokes, and in that case you might even want to question if you really want someone like that at your table.
>in that case you might even want to question if you really want someone like that at your table
I don't know about you, but I don't exactly have a wealth of new people lining up to play L5R with my group. Assuming you're lucky enough to have a group at all, and given the complaints I've heard on here that might not be particularly common.
Generally we try to educate them better in the setting so they can try to have more character depth and if they're truly problematic players then we kick them out, no problem.
It's more of a "significant minority" thing; it's certainly not all and definitely not most but there's enough that I've seen it plenty of times over the years, especially with newer players fresh in from the CCG or just got rough overview of it online somewhere and decided they wanted to try it out.
Also if we look beyond the Crab, few people seem to have an issue grasping that the Matsu are significantly different from the Lion stereotype and that the Daidoji are different from the Crane stereotype.
But on the other side of that the Unicorn get the "everyone are exactly like the Moto" treatment, all Scorpion are Bayushi, and all Mantis are pirates.
Dragon at least get an in-between with their stereotype getting the addendum of "either dudes with two swords or dudes with magic tattoos."
Honestly a lot of it comes down to how integral the variation within the clan is to the clan's overall image.
The 1e RPG books probably had the most accurate-to-the-setting-fluff art of any L5R related media, hands down.
To some degree I think the HEAVY emphasis the later Unicorn had on the Mongolian Horde stuff has to do with early on the Unicorn beinf a bit exotic in the cards but having no recurring theme in the CCG except "nice, curious guys with horses" because the Shinjo and the Utaku were the guys in charge.
I noticed that the fluff when the Moto took over REALLY ran with the Mongolian influences and suddenly the Unicorn got a lot more consistently warlike and a lot of their individual leader's motives seemed to revolve around beating folks up to prove how badass they were, similar to how the Crab were acting before the Clan War when the Shadowlands was on the ebb and Kisada decided he was tired of guarding a bunch of pansies.
Plus "badass Mongolian conqueror" probably sells betters to a certain set of buyers then "slightly naive friendly horseman" I imagine.
Of course, with a Kaiu Blade, you (should) have to deal with that "No Crab has ever allowed themselves to be separated from their Sacred Kaiu Blade" thing, which makes it pretty difficult to get into places where they don't want you carrying weapons. Supposedly the only time a Crab ever did allow himself to be separated from the one he was responsible for was when he was summoned to the presence of the Emperor himself, and even then, the Emerald Champion promised to personally guard it in his stead for the duration. It's a pretty great roleplaying prompt for someone with one of those.
Trollshei's stuff is bullshit. There was also something about only mortals being able to participate (that's why Trollshei cucked Shiba the first time), yet we had two demigods and a shadowspawn in the first round, as well as a full god (Togashi) accompanying the second batch and even fighting Fu Leng.
The whole War Against the Shadow would have never happened if Yakamo had been killed in that duel.
But yeah, I give you that, the Naga might have missed Yakamo.