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Previous Thread: >>44838891

http://pastebin.com/mxLKGGi9

Have any of you ever homebrewed a different existing setting into WoD? I hear about people playing World of Darkness in Fate and other systems, and there's the Monte Cook's World of Darkness and obviously the translation guides let you play one WoD game in the other WoD, but has anyone hacked the Storyteller System to run Shadowrun or Delta Green or something else?
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>>44872329
About the most I would consider would be using WoD Core and leaving out everything supernatural to run a gritty crime drama.
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For some reason I think you could adapt Bob Barbas into a Demon, maybe make him an Guardian, Analyst or Psychopomp who fell and became a Tempter. He runs a news station which not only broadcasts mundane news, but sends hidden messages to Unchained during the ad breaks, these are mostly aimed at those who have yet to build up their covers and inform them about places or agencies they will be safe at.

Quite a difference from his role in DMC 5 I know.
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I have a really specific character art request and I figured I might as well try here as well as fucking everywhere else. I'm looking for a student aged girl 17-22 in a uniform, like a blazer or blouse with long hair of whatever color. Kind of mysterious or authoritative. Maybe a student council type. If you have anything even close to this, I'd love if you could post it.
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Those WoD joke Tumblrs make me want to make a tumblr with things like pic related, inspired by a thing a friend on IRC did where she'd randomly post Reno 911 script style conversations between police working for a Judge Dredd style dystopian cyber future.

Basically that, but for people on the Vigil. Just Reno 911 style dialogue of stupid people who have no business doing what they're doing.

But unfortunately this is the only joke I can think of, and I stole it from The Punchline is Machismo.

>>44872420
Have you tried Gelbooru?
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>>44872420

Have you simply tied searching Google Images for "young professional women" or similar terms.
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>>44872436
>>44872435
Yeah, I'm checking everywhere I know of and have a few images, but figured asking here couldn't hurt. There are some decent ones in the imgur gallery too.
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Reposting:

I'm in a bit of a pickle about figuring out just what Psyche should do. Or, more accurately what I should cover in the Psyche write up, and just how much Psyche should affect a Sin-eater. Obviously the whole "You can spend Psyche plasm per turn", but what should be the negative effects of high Psyche? Should I continue with characters needing to spend time in the Underworld? Should Sin-eaters increasingly become easier for Ghosts to Manifest around? Should Sin-eaters start requiring Anchors, like they did in 1e?

I'm tempted to use that last one, but in practice it seems like it's just "carry more shit with you".

I don't want to just carry over Werewolf's whole Siskur-Dah aspect, where Sin-eaters would need to go ghostbusting once every so often. It would do more to encourage characters to actually go out and Sin-eat, but I don't want to copy MORE from Werewolf, and I don't want to use sticks. I prefer carrots.

I'm also wondering how much Psyche should affect a Sin-eater's base powers. Should it add to their ability to sense Death Stains, for instance?

For bulwarking, Sin-eaters will now auto-downgrade damage equal to their Psyche with a single point of Plasm. Alternately, I can steal from that other Sin-eater homebrew and just have them downgrade it all, but how they do it is just give Sin-eaters a health track lower than Bashing. That may be the way to do it.
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What would be the limits of Influence: Last, specifically the difference between Manipulate and Control?

Would Manipulate mean you could make someone attracted to anybody, with Control being desire for non-humans, cars/anime/corpses/etc. Or would Manipulate just let you push someone to someone else within their own type/gender preference, with Control being anything else?

Also would Influence: Elderly be too broad?
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>>44872871
>Last

Lust, fuggin auto correct.
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>>44872871
Manipulate can shift someone's lust to another viable target, so for example you could make a heterosexual guy at a bar lust after a different woman, but not the old guy smoking with his buddies in the corner.

Control can completely shift it, so you could make the aforementioned man lust after the old guy, or a chair, or a knife.

However they can't work with nothing, the amount of lust would be equal (at least not without Strengthening first).
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>>44872871
IIRC, Manipulate is make something do something it could have done naturally; say, change the course of a river. Control makes something do something it wouldn't do under normal circumstances; say, make a river run uphill.

For your example, Manipulate Lust could make someone attracted to someone within their orientation/preferences, even if they weren't before. Say, make a married person cheat on their spouse.

Control Lust would let you run wild without bothering with preferences. Say, making someone like pic related. Without Create, you'd have to get them going first, but that's doable with Strengthen.
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>>44873050
someone post the extended version of this.
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>>44872740
I think banes and bans are they best way to go, honestly. Also, love the new bulwark.
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Why is Obtenebration 4 so shit? Is it just an XP sink because 5 is so good?
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>>44873371
Which version? Prevent [Psyche] damage or prevent all damage?

I think I am still going to use Phantom damage either way. This is how the other Homebrew (still labeled "Alpha" after 6/12/14) does it:

>The Sin-Eater’s natural ability to resist damage has been modified to fit GMC’s higher damage model. It now works like this:
>● When a Sin-Eater is damaged by an attack he may spend 1 Plasm to convert all damage from that attack to ‘Phantom Damage’.
>● Mechanically Phantom damage is a step below bashing, denoted by a dot in the health box. Attacks reduced to Phantom damage inflict no wound penalties, lasting tilts or negative conditions. However, like normal damage Phantom Damage can roll over if enough is built up.
>● All Phantom damage heals completely at the end of the Scene.
I'm not sure how I like it. I don't necessarily mind Sin-eaters being able to tank things, but I feel like that's too much for an innate ability. I'd rather have something like that work for a Shroud power. I already know I want one of the Shrouds to be basically Resilience. Not sure which, though. It was going to be Grave-Dirt one, but I've decided not to worry about the Elemental Keys. Phantasmal Shroud downgrading all attacks to phantom damage might actually be good... A free version of Psyche downgrading, based on [Key] dots instead...

Still musing. But also still kind of writing the Synergy rules. I may also just play more Bloodlines.
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>>44873427
Prevent Psyche damage.
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>>44873427
Honestly, I really don't like phantom damage. Not only does it seem needlessly complicated, it also feels slightly unbalanced.
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>>44873462
But then again, let's think about their current negation. It lets them then it to bashing that they receive post combat. The phantom damage gives them a limit to how much they can TRULY ignore. I take it back, I like phantom. But still only negate up to [Psyche].
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>>44873450
Mm. Like I said, that seems best. Doing too much takes design space from other powers.

>>44873462
How so? On both counts.

It's actually more or less how Sin-eaters already do things. They have an ability labeled "Ectoplasmic Flesh" that allows them to spend plasm to negate damage on a one to one basis. Damage negated is marked down with a dot, and while new damage of any type overwrites the dot, enough dots will convert to real Bashing damage. It's actually the same system, it just gives a new term for the damage that is bulwarked.
Also, rereading that section, I have no idea why I've always been calling that damage "bulwarked"...

The main difference is that this damage isn't 'upgraded' at the end of the scene. But frankly unless you have back to back scenes, that doesn't matter; an entire track of bashing heals in two hours.

>>44873478
Like I said, technically that's how it originally worked. All I'm changing is:
1) using the term "Phantom damage" (so that I can use it elsewhere, such as powers like my current Phantasmal Boneyard, which does phantom damage with it's illusions)
2) No longer worrying about it becoming bashing damage at the end of the scene
3) 1 plasm stops [Psyche] worth of damage, instead of 1 damage.
I think I will keep the thing where dots get overwritten, instead of being pushed down the track. So if you get slashed for 2L when your health is [·][·][·][ ][ ][ ], it'll look like [X][X][·][ ][ ][ ]. Assuming 4chan doesn't eat my dots like Pacman.

I think I'm definitely going to keep the Stygian Shroud as giving a sort of Vampire body, which means it will downgrade all types of damage one step lower, allowing me to use Phantom Damage more. No sense using a mechanic only once. Phantasmal Key might also have more powers that deal phantom damage due to illusions.
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So what exactly is stopping Network Zero in Hunter from just exposing the supernatural in a modern world where social media is getting more and more common, and everyone and their grandmother (literally) have access to a camera and recorder? At some point the powers in the shadow or whatever aren't going to be able to hide or discredit every single video out there.

I'm hoping for a decent answer to this question when I run a game of Hunter for a game of folks new to World of Darkness.
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>>44874306
In Mages' case there's the Sleeping Curse.

Network Zero is going to be literally causing psychotic breaks in people every time they watch the videos they put out.
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>>44873389
How is 4 so bad? We all know 3 is the really big game changer, but 4 has some neat applications.
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>>44874306
Well, aside from the obvious things like people thinking it is a fake (and many conspiracies backing up those claims) and some supernaturals who have inherent defences against it (like a vampire's Broken Visage, werewolf Lunacy, and Dissonance caused by Supernal Magic) it is up to you. The game provides multiple possible answers. Some examples:

1) Humans in the CofD are inherently fearful and have a tendency to forget. This might be because of Quiescence or some other metaphysical quality of the world or humanity.

2) The God-Machine did it. It has so complete control over information flow, It ensures that no recording that would ever be widely taken seriously gets into circulation.

3) The participants of the Ascension War rewrite reality or turn back time whenever a major revelation of the supernatural happens.

4) Everybody knows the world is funky, but denial is better than to face the horror.
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>>44874747
Doesn't seem to do much that you can't already do. You can make people lose stamina dice and attack with some tentacles. That's pretty much what you're doing with 2 and 3 only worse.
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>>44874306
>>44874829
On top of this, remember the there are supernaturals in high positions in the Government and the business world.

Do you really think the Invictus, the Seers, AND the God-Machine don't all have some stake in Google? Do you think they're not screening for videos of supernatural shit and surreptitiously removing them for copyright violations/burying them so they don't get views?
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>>44874306
>>44874829
>>44874990

Iron Master werewolves also have a dedicated rite that scrubs all evidence of supernatural events, including video and anything on the internet.

I would also imagine that various supernaturals flood the internet with fake videos and other false flags. If people are constantly watching shiny "vampires" being debunked, they'll also assume that authentic videos are just as fraudulent, but with better production values.

The sheep are stupid and afraid. They don't want to believe. Give them what they think they want so they can sleep in blissful ignorance.
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I ran into a problem. I create a cofd fantasy setting and do not know how to deal with the Abyss and the Lie. The setting is "revealed", so everyone knows that mages, werewolves, spirits, etc exist. If everyone knows the existence of the supernatural, would not be impossible for the existence of an abyss?
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>>44876206
Think of it this way: the Abyss is what separates mortals from mages. Even if people know magic exists, it still erases their memories of it. That only serves to increase the paranoia, because now people KNOW their memories aren't necessarily true.

Think of it this way: you woke up hungover and can barely remember last night. Are you sure you weren't involved in a horrific magical accident? Is your drinking buddy secretly a Mage? He could've dragged you into some sort of supernatural war, for all you know. Those people don't care about whatever regular humans get caught up in their shit. Best to investigate him, to be sure. Or worse. You remember that your cousin died in a car accident. Are you sure it was a car that hit him? Or is that just how the magic made you remember it?

Mortals knowing about Dissonance = paranoia everywhere.
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>>44876206
No, because the Lie works regardless of one's knowledge of the supernatural, and they Abyss exists regardless.

Unless everyone in the world are Sleepwalkers, even if they know intellectually that Mages exist, they still can't actually perceive their powers; knowledge of magic's existence doesn't make you a Sleepwalker. And even if for some reason everyone became a Sleepwalker (which would take some doing) the Abyss would still corrupt Mage's magic, so long as the Fall still happened.

You're thinking in Ascension mode. The Abyss=/=consensual reality, especially with 2e coming out and getting rid of things like the vulgar/covert distinction.
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Novice here. I want to run Mage: the Ascension but I need to create the city, chantries, cabals, etc. I know WW produced only the Las Vegas sourcebook, but is there any unofficial material I could use for city building? Is Boston Unveiled worth using if I manage to change the Awakening factions with the Ascension traditions?
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>>44876206
Alexandrian Mage, in the Dark Eras Preview, had an alternative to the Lie; instead of risking Paradox when a sleeper sees their magic, they risk Paradox when they use magic in a way that goes against their cultural taboos, or something along those lines. They also call it Nemesis, instead of Paradox, iirc. Someone else probably has the PDF, and can post it for actual reference.
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>>44876597

>Is Boston Unveiled worth using if I manage to change the Awakening factions with the Ascension traditions?

It's possible but easier said than done. There's not going to be easy one-to-one switches, and a lot of the relationships between people in the city will need to be reworked.
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>>44873043
>>44873050
Thanks, I'm working on cupids.
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How would you make The Planeteers in WtF?
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>>44879838
The Werewolf Translation Guide

BA-DUM-TISH
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>>44879902
Funny, har.
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>>44879838
Five separate totems that the pack can combine into Captain Planet as portrayed by Don Cheadle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwJaELXadKo
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>>44879959
Wouldn't the Captain be their Pack Totem though? Their Werewolf dealio is they can each use a fifth of his power or call him forth to clobber shit. For a spirit he is remarkably sane, unless you count all the puns.

Actually the Eco-villains could work well as people who are, sometimes unknowingly, stirring up the world of Spirit due to their actions in the world of Flesh.
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>>44880143

>sometimes unknowingly

There is nothing "unknowingly" about the Eco-Villains, that's what's fun about them!
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>>44880415
Fairy nuff, Something tells me that Dukem Nukem would be a Zeka, It Just Woiks.
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>>44877049

That version of Nemesis was gutted completely when we redid Alexandrian Mage to second edition mechanics after the kickstarter - it's a bunch of new Paradox Conditions now, and the Lie never changes.
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>>44880477
Nope. Black Spiral Dancer, Balefire elemental totem.
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Mage 2e is such a fucking mechanical clusterfuck.

I'd sooner build a Fate hack than play this shit.
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>>44880892

Is there any notable Path "racism" or supremacist ideas within mage society?

Do mages of particular Paths formally associate with one another in a manner similar to Order caucuses?

Can a mage be an apprentice of someone from a different Path?
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>>44881076
>Can a mage be an apprentice of someone from a different Path?

Can and ideally should
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>>44881012
Makes sense.
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>>44881038

Besides the fact that Mage 2e hasn't even been released, and thus such a strong and unwavering judgment is absurd, based in the spoilers so far, virtually everyone agrees that 2e appears to be a significant improvement in both mechanics and setting.

For you, what makes Mage 2e such a purported "fucking mechanical clusterfuck?"
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>>44881106
>Can a mage be an apprentice of someone from a different Path?
>Can and ideally should

Why?

I would imagine that it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to apprentice under a mage of a different Path. The perspectives, supernal "filters" (mage sight/Arcana) and inherent abilities are just too different.

A mage of another Path could certainly be an Order mentor, friend or patron, but actually magically training a new mage would almost certainly prove to be more trouble that it's worth.
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>>44881216
Getting exposure to other Paths' philosophies early so you don't start thinking your Path's Truths are the only important Truths, I'd assume.
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>>44881038
It is? Do tell about it! I want to know.
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>>44881216
Eventually you're going to have to take dots in Ararnum other than those of your path. All mentoring someone from your own path does is make your pupul neurotic about this truth and deny you easy access to understanding of spheres besides those you favour.
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>>44876206
>>44876310
Don't confuse Paradox with Dissonance. Even if everyone in the world is a Sleepwalker, Paradox will still exist. Paradox is what happens when you let the Abyss into the world through reckless magic. Dissonance (Disbelief in 1e) just makes this stronger. Paradox can still exist in a world where everything is revealed.
In fact, it might even be stronger. After all, even if you know that the Cave is not all there is to the world, you still don't know what's outside of it and you don't know what the world is really like, even if you know that some people are capable of making shapes on the cave wall.

I don't necessarily think that Dissonance would cause paranoia, and if the World of Darkness is Revealed, I think it might be best to do away with that. After all, in a world where you understand and accept that magic is real, and vampires have to ask permission from the king to embrace or Werewolves file their Siskur-Dah, you won't really have people who are taking Integrity hits for seeing the Supernatural.

>>44881038
We've done it. We've found the ONE guy who seems to hate Mage 2e.
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>>44881284
>All mentoring someone from your own path does is make your pupul neurotic about this truth and deny you easy access to understanding of spheres besides those you favour.

Where in either 1e or Dave's 2e spoilers did you derive such ideas?

Note also that every Path in 2e has access to their Common Arcana (not Spheres) up to level 4 without outside training. That's hardly an inherent denial of access to understanding non-Ruling Arcana.
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>>44881321
>We've done it. We've found the ONE guy who seems to hate Mage 2e.

It's also probably the same Anon who likes Beast, thought there was nothing wrong with the leaked or first Kickstarter draft, and totally saw how the Sleeping Beauty NPC was really an evil serial killer.
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>>44880892
What a shame, I dig it when alternate settings really switch things up a bit more than that. Part of why I was so disappointed Giants of the Earth or whatever the biblical Demon setting was called insisted on keeping the mechanical angels theme rather than finally giving us a proper demon game.
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>>44881076
They would have to if they want to master any arcana from outside their path.
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>>44881463
Well, considering I'M the one that everyone seems to think likes Beast (even though I've repeatedly said I'd just prefer we talked about flaws it actually has)... not only are half the things you said wrong, I love Mage 2e. Then again, I used to spend several threads pointing out why things in Mage 1e didn't work the way people thought and got labeled a Mage fanboy for saying things were harder, time consuming, and not worth it, so clearly anything I complain about is my favourite thing ever.
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>>44881076
>Is there any notable Path "racism" or supremacist ideas within mage society?

A continuation of the last thread's discussion about the smells emanating from mages of different Paths. It sure was better than the rehash about the pronouns.

>Do mages of particular Paths formally associate with one another in a manner similar to Order caucuses?

Didn't Summoners have an example of this?

>Can a mage be an apprentice of someone from a different Path?

I don't think we know enough about formal mage training or apprenticeship in 2e to really answer the question.
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>>44881482

Even in the Neolithic setting, where there's no Gauntlet and you can wander into Pangaea by straying too far into the wilderness, when every human alive has first-hand knowledge of spirits and knows damn well mages exist, when mages are an exalted, vital part of society because they can defend people...

... Sleepers who witness obvious spells still cause Paradox, and still forget about it afterwards.
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>>44881675
How are Mages exalted if no one knows they can really do magic?
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>>44881675
>magic is real
>except that dancing hollybush, which I'm obviously imagining

wut
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>>44881708
'Slike Kamen Rider Den-O but with less time travelling bullet trains.
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>>44881582
Tome of the Watchtowers did, too. Path-based societies aren't a formalized part of Mage's setting, because after Order, Consilium, Legacy, and Convocation they were a bridge too far of politics, *but*, traditionally a Consilium is one member of each Path, not (as is often assumed) one member of each Order, and mages will tend to talk to other people who see the same Supernal World as them.

Yes, you can be an apprentice of any other mage. Sharing a Path has the upside of definitely qualifying you for their Legacy and having practical experience on hand for dealing with your Supernal World, not sharing one gives you a broader perspective and - eventually, if they're a Master - someone to teach you past your Path's limits in odd Arcana.
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>>44881708
"These are secrets not meant for mortal men".
Anyhow, the Wise know things they shouldn't be able to. Their accomplishments speak for themselves, even if the uninitiated can not know how they accomplished them.
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>>44881708
>How are Mages exalted if no one knows they can really do magic?

The same way Sleepers can now be part of the Orders and know about magic and mages.

Quiescence prevents Sleepers from remembering obvious magical spells they personally witnessed, but doesn't prohibit them learning about anything.
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>>44881731
That made no sense to me.

>>44881821
I'm just saying a little proof seems like it would be necessary...
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>>44881868
>That made no sense to me.
I'll be honest I didn't understand it either...and I'm the one who typed it in the first place.
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>>44881821
>The same way Sleepers can now be part of the Orders and know about magic and mages.
>Quiescence prevents Sleepers from remembering obvious magical spells they personally witnessed, but doesn't prohibit them learning about anything.
HOW they learn this still hasn't been adequately explained. "They take Mages' and Sleepwalkers' word for it" is the best anyone has managed so far, and that's pretty weak.
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>>44881708

You know they can do magic, you can see the results. You're just not going to see how point A got to Point B, because you haven't Awakened.

>>44881038

I know you're probably shit posting and haven't even seen the full ruleset, but a Fate hack of Mage could be cool. Maybe something in Fate Accelerated, where the Paths are the skills as well as the magic.
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>>44881868
>I'm just saying a little proof seems like it would be necessary...

Proof is easy. Spirit is harassing village. Self-professed shaman goes into wilderness alone and returns proclaiming the spirit has been defeated. Spirit no longer appears in village. Repeat. Shaman is now exalted member of community.

Simply, we all learn about things we do not personally witness, and we are quite capable of understanding cause and effect.
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>>44881708
By mages being smart and thinking round the problem.

People do know that mages can really do magic, the important part is not doing magic in front of the people - or giving them enough of a show then doing the real magic of sight.
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>>44881868

God terrorizes village.
Joe Thyrsus says "guess I'll go deal with that, then. Oh, none of you can come with me, btw"
Comes back with the God's heart.
Crops fail.
Villagers cautiously approach the hut on the edge of the village where Joe Thyrsus lives, and enquire as to whether he can do something about the weather.
He can't, but he knows someone who can. Performs a meditative ceremony at the Menhir in the centre of the village (which is caked with that God's Heartblood).
Contacts Geoff Obrimos via the Astral Realms.
Geoff announces to *his* village that he has business elsewhere, wanders off into the wilderness. Casts spell summoning a rainstorm, sends it Joe's way.
Joe announces that rain is on the way, goes back to his hut.
Rain starts. Villagers continue leaving food outside Joe's hut.
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>>44881868

The concept of "prove it!" took us thousands of years to formally develop and even now many people take things on faith, reasonable or otherwise.
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>>44881675
Say Dave if this is set before Pangaea fell what do mages think of Father Wolf?
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>>44882012

>not a single rock pun in the names

Step it up, senpai.
>>
And finally...

Legacy Attainments. They don't cause Quiescence, or Paradox.

Want proof Geoff is an Obrimos? If he's a Tamer of Fire, he can set fire to your house by looking at it.
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>>44882010
Another example. The cattle are all sickening and dying! This is bad, bad news.

The Mage goes and gets some coloured earths and performs a ceremony, marking all the sick cattle with sacred patterns. She goes to the potters and asks them to make strange shaped vases that she says she will usher the bad spirits out of the cattle and into. She does a big ceremony in front of all the villagers. This is not actually magical but things like the pots might actually serve as yantras.

Then she goes and does the actual magic in the sacred, forbidden interior of her hut.

Over the next few days the cattle recovere. Magic! And the villagers even SAW the magic because they saw the ceremony and the sacred jars and the sacred symbols that must have driven the bad spirits out.

Of course the Mage then has a bunch of angry disease spirits to contend with, but hey, swings and roundabouts and at least this way she isn't starving RIGHT NOW because the cattle are all dead.
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>>44882215
I got to say, this all sounds needlessly roundabout and like it serves no thematic purpose other than forcing the idea that the Lie always existed, even though it doesn't suit every setting.
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>>44882012
>>44882215

These examples are super cool, but now I wonder: Cabals aren't as common in Neolithic times, are they? At least not the traditional, modern day Mage sense.
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>>44881764

Thank you.

>*but*, traditionally a Consilium is one member of each Path, not (as is often assumed) one member of each Order

Are consilia in 2e similar in structure to 1e? For instance,do they still have the same large number of officers like Hierarch, Councilor, Provost, Sentinel, Herald, etc.?

>mages will tend to talk to other people who see the same Supernal World as them.

When using Mage Sight, do all members of the same Path see the exact same thing as each other, or are their "filters" not only Superal, but personal?

>Yes, you can be an apprentice of any other mage.

Do Pentacle mages generally only apprentice other mages from their own Order? Do mages join an Order before or after their apprenticeship?

How long is a typical Pentacle apprenticeship, and is this discussed in any detail in the corebook, SoS, or TofP?
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>>44882283

Some things aren't going to change no matter what the time. The Lie's always going to be around, the Unchained are fallen biomechanical processes of the God-Machine, the things that come part and parcel with the core game.
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>>44882140
>Legacy Attainments. They don't cause Quiescence, or Paradox.
Yesssssss.
I'd been waiting for that confirmation.
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>>44882283
Also the thought of mages without paradox frightening.
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>>44882215
>>44882012
>>44882010
I actually like this a lot more than Nemesis being the extent of Neolithic/Alexandrian Paradox sources.

Partly because I like the idea of a mage doing a big ceremonious ritual, only to then go into his hut and make the ritual's 'result' happen at a wave of the hand.
>>
>>44882283
It very much serves a thematic purpose. The era's name indicates what that purpose is, but you'll obviously have to wait till the thing is released for the full info since I'm not gonna be copying chunks of text here from the final draft about how the Wise see the world and their place in it.
>>
>>44882012

So, it's confirmed that the Astral is basically the internet and Skype for mages.
>>
http://archiveofourown.org/works/202257
For some reason all the Neolithic Mage talk made me remember this.
>>
>>44882012
>>44882215

What was the population size of an average Neolithic village?
>>
>>44882407
Except the Lie is absolutely the kind of thing that can change. It makes sense that it would take the Exarchs time to arrange the necessary set of oppressive Truths and Abyssal anti-Truths necessary to Lie to reality in this fashion. Strengthening the Truths that compose the Lie, and therefore its effects, is part of the Seers' JOB. Why do they even exist if the Lie has existed in exactly the same fashion, unchanged, for hundreds of thousands of years?

Ascended beings are up there subtly altering the exact nature of reality all the time.
>>
>>44882775

Nothing takes any time to accomplish. As above, so below.

If and when a Exarch. Ascended Mage or Archmaster makes a change to reality, that change is and always was.

These beings also don't manipulate the Abyss, the source of the Quiscence (Abyssmal shard in every Sleeper's soul).

You should really read Imperial Mysteries. It's basically The Idiot's Guide to Reality in the CofD.
>>
>>44881821
>The same way Sleepers can now be part of the Orders and know about magic and mages.

Sleepers cannot. Sleepwalkers can.
>>
>>44882775

A change on a Supernal level is like a cosmic Wikipedia edit: once it's done, it looks like it's always been that way unless it's too obvious or you have the knowledge to know it's been tampered with. As soon as the Exarchs took the throne, the Lie reigned, and as long as they sit on the throne, it will last as long as they desire.

The Seers exist to make sure no one bothers to dethrone the Exarchs, so that reality isn't edited so that the Lie never existed.
>>
>>44883056
>The same way Sleepers can now be part of the Orders and know about magic and mages.
>Sleepers cannot. Sleepwalkers can.

Incorrect. In 2e, Sleepers are indeed part of the Orders and know about supernal magic, even if they suffer from witnessing it.

http://theonyxpath.com/new-order/
>>
What are some good cheat sheets or visual aids for CofD?
>>
Anyone got like....a crab statblock for CofD?
>>
>>44883988
Health: 1

Dicepool for hurting you: 1

Claws: +0B
>>
>>44883282
>Let Sleepers glimpse the Orders. The Orders are occult conspiracies, embedded within and working alongside Sleeper mystery cults, religions, academia, and politics. Usually, character groups for World of Darkness games are only known by the participants. The Orders are a bit more visible than that, such that Sleepers digging into the links between occult groups will start to see that something’s there. They are to Sleeper Mystery Cults as those cults are to regular people. Many Sleepers work for the Orders without ever knowing it – or work for more than one!
>Let Sleepwalkers and Proximi in. Further to the above, Sleepwalkers and Proximi who know about the Awakened can’t just see the Orders, they can join them and even buy the first dot of Status.

Nope. Sleepers might LEARN about the orders, Sleepwalkers and Proximi can join them.
>>
>>44883988
Attributes: Intelligence 1, Wits 2, Resolve 1,
Strength 1, Dexterity 2, Stamina 2, Presence 1,
Manipulation 0, Composure 1
General Dice Pools: Fleeing 4, Carrying 3, Hiding 3
Combat Dice Pools: Snips 4
Initiative Modifier: +3
Defense: 3
Health: 3
Willpower: 0
Size: 2
Speed: 5
>>
>>44882775
The Exarchs have nothing to do with the Lie. The Lie is simply a broken world divorced from the Supernal. The Exarchs shape The Fallen World to better suit their needs, but they didn't create it beyond kicking down the Ladder.

The Lie has been a constant since the Sundering.

>>44882573
It was confirmed a while ago, I thought.

>>44882593
You can have people who know about and can view Supernal Magic without it causing Quiescence and still have Paradox. Quiescence only inflames Paradox.
>>
>>44884456
True but a world without the lie would imply that Atlantis has yet to fall. Hence no paradox can happen without the abyss. That was my line of thought.
>>
>>44884641
Yeah, but the Neolithic Era has Fallen already.

>>44883988
>>44884113
Use the Swarm rules (that should have been in Core). It deals 1B each turn to anyone within the swarm and causes the Distracted Tilt. The Swarm can shrink to half it's Size in a turn to double the damage.
>>
>>44885041
The reason I'm not using swarm rules is because I intend to turn it into a cryptid, but 'm bad at putting together stat-blocks for myself, it's easier to modify something using existing rules.
>>
I have a friend who's maybe interested in doing a one on one after watching me run a prelude. She enjoyed the hell out of Bloodlines, even if oWoD is dumb, and after watching the prelude she's okay with giving VtR a try... but she's also new to non-freeform RP and doesn't want to really deal with stats.

I'm thinking I want to try going over the stats with her briefly to make a character, then mostly handling the dice rolls secretly (since that's a thing I've wanted to try). Does anyone have any experience in keeping the player's status secret from them? Health and Vitae and Willpower, that kind of thing.

The other thing, and the big thing I need advice for, is that I want to run something that's basically a VtR2e version of Bloodlines. Any suggestions for that? It's only one player, so I don't have to worry too much about having that kind of single character focused plotline, but a lot of the things integral to VtM:B don't really work in 2e. Like Antedeluvians, not that I plan on entirely rehashing the plot.
>>
>>44885306
Methuselah are pretty scary, and a torpid yet uniquely potent Elder makes a decent plot device.

You could also make it a more generalized ancient relic which has some significance to the Kindred. Maybe something used by that Babylonian Kindred guy, the one who is one of the En.
>>
>>44885041
I understand that. I was pointing out why the lie and paradox cannot separated from one another.
>>
>>44885306

She's not going to sleep with you, you know that right?
>>
>oWoD is dumb
But I like how fluffy the world is...
>>
>>44885306

>Does anyone have any experience in keeping the player's status secret from them? Health and Vitae and Willpower, that kind of thing.

Only use physical descriptions. You don't take three lethal, you take a bat to the face and you're spitting up blood. You're not down to two Vitae, you're feeling how cold you are and how great it would feel to warm up with a mouthful of hot blood. You're not out of Willpower, you're dead tired and all you want to do is just flop in bed until the next sundown. You are almost certainly doing this kind of stuff anyways, but it is crucial for you to be consistent with it, so the player can try to judge their situation without a sheet in front of them. Conditions, especially the Tilts, are going to be your very best friend. Be strict about healing times unless you're planning for long time skips.

Come up with narrative euphemisms for Willpower use, something like "powering through" . When the player uses an active physical Discipline, describe the rush of Vitae to the part of the body that makes it possible, and the increasing hunger after the effects are done. Social disciplines and Blood Magic get a lot more leeway, so be creative but descriptive just as desciptive.

Humanity is going to be a bit more on the player's side, but in general can be represented by an increasing use of the Beast's voice in some of the descriptions of things: describing people as if they were food, an increasing frustration with non-feeding situtions, that sort of thing.
>>
>>44885740

Some people like it, some folks don't. Some people will write pages and pages of essays about their pet setting and why the other one sucks. Some'll just drive buy it. Like what you like, and hope that we're not about to have a big long post about someone's opinions.
>>
>>44885642
Maybe I'm not going to sleep with her, you ever think of that?
Besides, I'm one of the eight or so people in this general who is also on F-list, which is where this is taking place.

I've wanted to do "keep the sheet secret" for a while.

>>44886096
My main concern is stuff like activating and purchasing Disciplines. Should I keep that kind of stuff secret? Should I give her a tutorial on how that works, so she can tell me when she's spending Vitae or Willpower?

In keeping with "basically Bloodlines", I'm tempted to have some tutorials, like the intro level with Jack, to explain stuff like Lashing Out or whatever.

I'm probably not going to worry too much about XP, and instead assign points based on how they choose to solve problems. If she runs away a lot, she might get dots of Parkour. If she shoots more, Firearms will be easier to use. Being nice means Humanity raises. (Again, this is sooort of an idea I've wanted to try out for a while, but never had a guinea pi--er, player for)
>>
Apart from Thyrsus Mages and Werewolves, are there any groups who mess around with Spirits frequently?
>>
What, if anything, can mortals do against spirits? I recklessly put my players up against a fairly powerful magath of lamb/slaughter (would this even be a magath?) and realize that they'll probably just die. One guy does have esoteric armory to combat it though I don't know what that would manifest as.
>>
>>44886889
The Purified, Shaman like Prometheans, and I can't think of anything else at the moment.
>>
>>44887075
Wait what rank are talking here? 3-4 maybe even 5? If any of those then the troupe would need weeks of in game prep time to even survive. After all these creatures fight werewolf on a regular basis.
>>
>>44887275
Yeah, Ulgans would be the next big one. Though I'm willing to bet something from Deviant might have to do with spirits, if only because forcibly merging someone with a spirit seems like something they might do.
>>
Is dual kith going to be in 2E? I really liked the cool stuff you could do by mixing and matching stuff.
>>
>>44887339
The idea of playing a claimed gives me some interesting plot hooks ideas.
>>
>>44886422

Vampires know about Disciplines, and know that some Clans of Kindred are better at some than others. Whether or not your Kindred actively refer to the Disciplines by their official name is up to your setting, but your player should absolutely know what they can do, and declare that they activate them in a narrative way. So yes, give them a tutorial.

A good way to do Disciplines in game is to come up with a key phrase that serve as code for the Discipline. For example, when I play my Daeva and I want to use Majesty, in-character I'll have him say that he's "turning on the charm", and out-of-character I'm telling the ST that I'm using Awe. You might have to take it a step further in your game, maybe having several key phrases for different parts of a Discipline. I highly suggest you read A Hunger Like Fire by Greg Stolze for some great descriptions of Disciplines with little to no usage of the name. The opening chapter is especially important, because it shows how a character can come across their innate clan Discipline without even thinking about it.
>>
>>44887373

No Dual Kith in the traditional sense, as Kith is the new X splat and Seemings are the new Y splat. This means you can have things like Darkling Beasts, Nightsinger Wizeneds, that sort of thing.
>>
>>44887336

Rank 3. Is that too much? I don't know much about spirits but if its similar to ghosts where 1 is mindless, 2 is basically a person and 3 is powerful.

I thought they could get away with ban trickery but knowing them, they'll throw caution to the wind and just try to fight it.
>>
>>44887589
rank 3 isn't TOO bad if the hunters have their bane, but it will very much be a thing of "If you aren't prepared, you'll get fucked.", rank 3 is VERY strong for hunters, having the bane/ban however will level things out somewhat as long as the group has some decent fighters.
>>
>>44887515
that's unfortunate, really liked the cool stuff you could do by mixing and matching.
>>
Anyone here playing Masquerade and have experience with the Age background?
>>
>>44887805

no
>>
By the way, someone mentioned that the Metis are named after a racist term for miscegenated people, but it's possible it's from this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metis_(mythology)
>>
>>44887871
>metis
>racist

its not racist. its what they are actually called and proudly too.
>>
So I'm actually gonna GM a Hunter game. It's my first time GMing and my first time playing Hunter. What are some good low-level threats to throw at my party? Or should I not even touch supernatural stuff until they get to a reasonable level?
>>
>>44887685
But you can mix and match everything. Any kith can be combined with any seeming.
>>
>>44887871

Sure, but when you consider that Werewolf the Apocalypse likes to borrow terms from First Nations/Aboriginal/Native American peoples as well as French terms and that it's hard to connect to the Titan of Skill and Wisdom to deformed sterile Garou born from Garou/Garou relationships, it's not hard to start looking towards the other Métis as the word's origin.

And the word itself is not racist in the proper context, >>44887993 has it right in that they're a community of their own and identify by that term. The whole beef is that it's the use of an actually existing group of people to represent, well, deformed and sterile werewolves with issues. I wouldn't call it racist as much as I would call it extremely dumb. White Wolf's naming conventions in the past tend to be style over substance, and sometimes it leads to silly decisions like that.
>>
>>44888196
Need I remind everyone of World of Darkness Gypsies?
>>
>>44887373
>>44887515
We don't know if Dual Kith will be gone, but either way any Seeming can be any Kith, because in a lot of games, people tend to use Dual Kith to play Kiths outside of their Seeming.
It's possible that Dual Kith will still exist.

>>44888196
>>44888216
That's true. But I was watching a Youtube video about The Odyssey (because I'm a nerd) and they mention that Oddysseus' primary quality is "Metis".
>>
>>44888087

Starting off with supernatural threats is perfectly fine. Some nice low level threats can be ghouls (the flesh eating kind, not the people who drink vampire blood kind), hedge mages, skinwalkers, and ghosts.
>>
>>44888244

Metis as a Greek term, yeah, but Métis as a French term is something else entirely. That there's just enough comparison in the broad term doesn't help either. Either way, I'd be OK if White Wolf used a more fitting term in the eventual Werewolf the Apocalypse reboot.

>>44888216

I would rather forget that ever existed. Or rather, we remembered just enough so that no one does anything like that anymore. Which so far, no one has. Small mercies.
>>
How do you set up a VtM game to actually play up the personal horror game, give the PCs a reason to hang out together, and balance "holy shit we get cool powers" with "being a vampire is bad?"

It seems like VtM is an awesome game but impossible to actually make work out properly.
>>
>>44889200

VtM mostly leaves that on the ST/Player side of the fence. It's a tone you all have to establish on your own, and everyone has to buy in on it. You can at least help the system by sticking to Humanity only games.
>>
How would you do a Bloodlines inspired game in VtR 2e?

And does anyone have the 2e book? I can't find it, and I've only got Blood & Smoke.
>>
>>44890457
2e core book is Blood & Smoke with another cover.

And what do you mean with "Bloodlines inspired"?
Which parts of it do you want?
>>
>>44889200
>How do you set up a VtM game to actually play up the personal horror game, give the PCs a reason to hang out together, and balance "holy shit we get cool powers" with "being a vampire is bad?"

I play VtR instead
>>
>>44889200
I'd play an actual VtM game. I prefer it to Requiem setting wise. Blood and Smoke has the best constructed mechanics though.
>>
>>44890474
Yeah, but the VtR2e book would have all the editing.

As for the game, I just want to run something with that feel of a player getting in over their head and getting thrust into the world of being a vampire. Getting jerked around by older vampires, dealing with the political factions, that kind of thing.
>>
>>44890457

Bloodlines is ultimately so embedded in oWoD's metaplot that doing a Bloodlines inspired game would need the barest possible threads. It's a game where:

1. The PC is Embraced and, through political tomfoolery, cast out into the wild without a proper Sire.

2. The PC becomes involved with local politics, always as a pawn until the very end.

3. The PC establishes agency in power in a major city event, becoming a major player.

You're essentially doing a Horatio Alger story by way of Anne Rice. What you need to do is create a city full of powder keg events that your PC can managed to deal with on their own.
>>
>>44890688
>eah, but the VtR2e book would have all the editing.

So would any non-advance copy of B&S. The differences are miniscule.
>>
>>44886422
eh, i do free form with zero dice but the players have their sheets.

they have to be honest about their magic juice pools and keep track of xp.

damage isn't anything that's recorded. the plot is what matters. they just know they got bloodied or had their ass kicked. i give them xp. they buy up their stats.

i do a quick and dirty for what happens in combat.

for example, i ran a vampire campaign about 8 years ago.

when a character with dominate used it on an npc i looked at the odds the would succeed (3 dice is statistically a success) in a contested or resisted roll.

i just went with the higher odds.
>>
>>44887805
just play abyssal exalted
>>
Has any one ever used/found some crazy/useful crossover combos. Such as a fate master giving a mummy the destiny to keep his power, giving a penalty to the mummies descent rolls.
>>
>>44890717
>Horatio Alger
Oh, yeah, sure. Everyone knows what... that means, yeah.

But yeah, that's basically what I'm going for. (Although I really do need to finish Bloodlines). Those general beats. I'm still confused about how exactly they found the Fledgling immediately post-embrace, or why their Sire says basically nothing, but that isn't particularly important. Just figuring out a reason for things to be similar. It's mostly the whole thing with the Ankaran Sarcophagus. Although for the most part the Fledgling gets the runaround, and most of the game doesn't involve the Sarcophagus itself.

>>44890877
I dislike freeform. There's no... randomness. And I rarely want to know if something succeeds or fails, I want to know how well it does.

>>44890958
A Changeling and a Beast can just go to movie theaters. The Changeling feeds on the movie goers, the Beast feeds on the Changeling.
>>
>>44891137
Seems a health enough relationship. Another combo I got is a sin-eater using pyroflame curse to have the sun reject a vampire.
>>
>>44891266
That seems like the kind of thing that is more effort than its worth. Sure, you don't burn in the sun, but there's a reason it's a Curse.
>>
>>44891337
Well the only problem is your in pitch black darkness. Most people can't even see the curses effect. While a vampire only takes a -2 to see.
>>
>>44891137

>Oh, yeah, sure. Everyone knows what... that means, yeah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horatio_Alger,_Jr.

Dude wrote many stories about young boys who were cast out into the harsh world and made themselves into important people through hard work, and the generous helping of other powerful people. Of course, the way Bloodlines does it is far more cynical, but the basic idea's the same.

The Fledgling was found instantly because it was almost certainly a set-up by LaCroix as a power-play. If we're to believe Strauss in one dialogue tree, the Fledgling's Sire was an Anarch, and possibly a big deal one.

Honestly, the reason for the Fledgling to be in a Requiem style Bloodlines game doesn't matter. Finding the Sire could be a mystery in and of itself.
>>
>>44887657
Yeah even combat-specced Demons are wary of rank 3+, and these are the fuckers with MIRV hellfire launchers or Jericho defense-crashers in their repertoire.

If Angels are on the same level as spirits, a Terrible-Form expert could probably pull it off by Going Loud and abusing the fuck out of their exploits and Shift Consequence.

I can't imagine a 5 as anything other than a "hidden final boss" for a group of well prepared hunters. As an out of nowhere encounter that's "rocks fall you die" levels of being an asshole by ST.
>>
>>44891630
Hrm. I was thinking a similar set up where they bust in and fail to stop the Embrace, then kill the Sire would be good, but a missing Sire is also good. Adds suspicion and mystery. I'll need to think of a way for them to find her without having jumped into the room minutes after the act.
>>
I don't get why so many people who played bloodlines want to run bloodlines games. They've already played that story, why not something new?
>>
>>44892059

It's easy and familiar. I think it's fine, everyone's had that one campaign that's based on a video game they liked at least once in their time gaming.
>>
>>44885041
>The Swarm can shrink to half it's Size in a turn to double the damage.

How the fuck does that work?
>>
>>44892059
>>44892095
For me it's more that the player liked Bloodlines, and Bloodlines is a good set up for a one player game that serves as a tutorial to the world and system.

I don't like the whole "I want to run a game EXACTLY like a video game or movie in the same world and with the same circumstances", but I've got no problem taking inspiration from something, and >>44890717 outlines more or less what I plan to do; same concepts, not necessarily the same exact story.

>>44892157
Narratively or mechanically? I mean, if you mean "why does it do more damage", well...
Pretend you're caught in a six yard swarm of horrible squirrels. When it becomes a three yard swarm of horrible squirrels, all biting at your genitals and gnawing your fingers and scratching at your eyes... that's more squirrels in a smaller area
>>
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>>44892157
>How the fuck does that work?

Rather than a guy blundering through a cloud of insects that are biting and stinging incidentally, the swarm contracts and more insects are directly biting and stinging.
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>>44892278
That is not the picture I meant to post, but it's somehow strangely apropos.
>>
>>44892287
Hive-Claimed?
>>
Is it just me or is the Mega missing a few splatbooks/supplements?
>>
>>44892574
Probably, but since you're getting them for free you can at least make the effort to google for the rest
>>
>>44892582
Woah there friend. Wasn't criticizing the fact that books were missing, just making sure I wasn't going crazy. I've got physical copies of all the book infact, but I needed pdf's ease of carrying.
>>
Today was kind of a shit day where I froze my ass off without heat and got nothing accomplished, but I figure I can still show off the Character Creation stuff I've got written up so far.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WkkF0qlmJ-_vFnzvvQ6qR4WFAleQnHef-Gt53a5m7Eo

I still need to finish writing about the Breaking Points, then move on to Psyche and what bonuses/restrictions high Psyche gives. I know that my general guideline for Breaking Points is going to be that in general stuff that's pro-ghost goes towards Death and anything that's pro-normal is towards Life. But I also want certain events that are always "away from 5" and "towards 5". Sin-eater and Geist agreeing on something for instance would always be towards 5. One major problem with this is that the way I'm thinking of setting it up would mean that a Geist in control (and I'm wondering if Fervor is the right term) is capable of breaking towards Life, which ultimately gives the Sin-eater control.

Or I could ditch the idea that Life 0 Synergy means you're Vacant and Death 0 Synergy means you're Wretched. But I really do like those two failure states to exist. The idea is that you'd basically need to break twice in the 0 direction to completely lose there, but you still wouldn't necessarily be unplayable.

Or I could make it so that the Geist only breaks towards Life if they're doing something positive to the Sin-eater's life (like ending an abusive relationship the Sin-eater doesn't want to end). Otherwise they're doing something to further a ghost (themselves).
>>
>>44887871
Metis are recognized as their own race in Canada alongside first nations and inuit
>>
is second sight any good?
>>
>>44894185
Yes
>>
>>44872329
Got a flash idea for an adventure for some low to mid level characters.
It is heavily inspired by the /r9k.

So four college students are gone missing. They were last seen in their hometown during the spring break. The contact with them is all out and being some avid social networkers, there was not a whisper from them on facebook, twitter or anything.
It does not raise much suspicion until three bodies are found horribly mutilated and covered in excrement and some hardly identifiable human tissue. Pattern of wounds can be described as somewhat erratic, yet too elaborate to be caused by an animal.
Police found broken phones of the three victims and there was a footage of them drunkenly sneaking into an unidentified suburban house (and the suburbs are a sea of identical houses down there) and saying, they gonna pay a visit to an old friend. Interior is pitch black and unidentified angry screams can be heard in the background. The cameraman chuckles. Fastforward the doors creak open and there is an interior only lit by multiple big screens and an amorphous shape seen moving in their light, as it turns, the chuckles turn to screams and it's all filled with a havoc of sounds all related to people getting killed in a gruesome way. On a still, a face can be seen catching a glimpse of a camera as it is about to go down on cams owner.
The face seems disturbingly plump, childish and frightened.

Cont later
>>
As the title says, are you looking to play, some WTA20th? In a 24 hour server / setting? Are you looking to enjoy the fun that is the Garou Nation fighting against the Wyrm? Than come join us on IRC at irc.onravenswings.com
Important Details: Sept and Caern = Get War Caern, No red talons, No Metis, Shadow lords are currently Maxed out, same with Uketna Ragabash.
If you want to have fun and play with some great people.. join us we wont bite.. ((well maybe the Shadow Lords who's Pack's totem is rat might))
>>
>>44894185
>>44894343
No. Second Sight has some good ideas, but overall the book isn't really that good and the mechanics aren't really great either. Most of them have been folded into 2e's core, and almost all of them are much better. Except for Biokinesis for some reason.
>>
>players are all the surviving members of a Brujah gang that got almost wiped out by the local Prince basically because they tried to stay out of vampire politics and be somewhat peaceful
>the Prince's lackeys are still looking for you, but now you're looking for him
Would you play this?
>>
>>44893799

>One major problem with this is that the way I'm thinking of setting it up would mean that a Geist in control (and I'm wondering if Fervor is the right term) is capable of breaking towards Life, which ultimately gives the Sin-eater control.

That doesn't sound like a huge problem. Geister like doing things full of life, so it's natural that they'd stumble on some pro-Life breaking points. You want that kind of tension going on.
>>
>>44897679

I would. Personally Brujah trying to stay OUT of politics is a bit weird to me since that's now how I'm used to them, but the core idea is very solid.
>>
>>44897679
No. Even aside from being VtM, the set up isn't very interesting, and leaves a lot of questions.

Why did the Prince decide to just wipe out a whole gang of vampires, especially one that was peaceful and stayed out of politics? How did no one else react to this negatively? For all the cutthroat nature of vampires, everyone's got an opinion, and most people's opinion on something like killing a whole bunch of people is negative, if for no other reason than they might be next on the chopping block. Nevermind the problems that come about if you kill someone who had friends.
Beyond that I'd be curious why these Brujah were even targeted. They tried to stay out of politics, so they were killed? That seems uncharacteristic of Brujah to begin with, since their entire concept is loud social dissidents. They're half biker gang, half Marxist scholar, but this group stayed OUT of politics? And why would they get killed for that, unless the Prince was paranoid about them choosing his rival's side, but not paranoid enough to worry about the things I just mentioned above?
How big is this city that the Prince can devote time and resources to hunting down these apolotical dissidents who now have his face on their dartboard because he made a weird decision?

And most importantly I'd be uninterested because I just don't want to play a game where everyone is the same clan or character type. If it was Anarchs--which would answer quite a few of the questions I have by making them outsiders--sure, maybe it'd be interesting enough, but as is? No, sounds unlikely.

>>44897753
Well yeah, but then you've got this weird thing where the Geist can do things that eventually lead to the character becoming Vacant: i.e.: the Geist does things that make the geist go quiet. Then again, I guess that's no different than the Sin-eater doing things that give the Geist more control.

Although one thing this comment makes me think about is whether I might be making it too easy to go up and down.
>>
>>44897892

Jesus Christ, dude, they were posting a basic logline. "You've been nearly wiped out, go get revenge", works as a game, all those details come later.

>Well yeah, but then you've got this weird thing where the Geist can do things that eventually lead to the character becoming Vacant: i.e.: the Geist does things that make the geist go quiet. Then again, I guess that's no different than the Sin-eater doing things that give the Geist more control.

Exactly. Geists are interested in their self preservation, but they also want to live. This embracing of life is exhilarating but dangerous, and given how you want to run Synergy, the forces and influences of Life itself is harmful to the Geist. And yet it goes for it, because eating, drinking, and being merry is fucking AWESOME compared to the Underworld. A Geist partying too hard into nonexistence should always be a threat, and an encouragement to go do psychopomp things.
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>>44898040
He asked if it was an interesting set up. I said no, and explained why.

>given how you want to run Synergy, the forces and influences of Life itself is harmful to the Geist
Eh. See, that's how I DON'T want to run Synergy. But I'm running into the problem that unless I decide to have two Synergy meters (which has been tempting, but I'll save that for my Alignment homebrew, where you have a Law-Chaos morality meter and a Good-Evil morality meter), Synergy measures way too much:

-- How well Geist and Sin-eater get along
-- Whether the Geist and Sin-eater is more in control
-- Whether the Sin-eater works towards or ignores their responsibility as traditional psychopomp

Ultimately I think you're probably right, though. Divorcing the notion that "geist=Death" will probably be for the best here. Even if it means technically the Geist can party itself into nonexistence.

I need to think of some specific breaking points. Especially stuff to shove the Sin-eater away from 5, so that the balancing act is a little more difficult.

I'm also going to take a bit of a page from Werewolf's book again and make certain actions more difficult when you're on one end or the other. Specifically Reverse Possession (which needs a better name) and opening Avernian Gateways. At 5 both should be free and Reflexive, but if you're at 1 or even 0 on either end, it should be difficult, probably a point of plasm AND a roll. I'm also making opening a Gateway easier, to encourage more Underworld stuff. In core it's a Psyche roll that you can augment with stuff like killing a rabbit or burning love letters. I'm going to make it a roll of your primary Key and Psyche, so starting characters should be able to do that better.
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>>44898359
I mean needing a roll and a point of Plasm to open an Avernian Gateway from the other side.

At Life 1 you'd need to spend Plasm and roll Key+Psyche to get in, but you might be able to get out for free. At Death 1 you might be able to get in for free, but need a point of Plasm and a successful roll to get out.
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>>44898359

I wouldn't call that explaining as much as it is "giving someone the third degree" but whatever.

>Ultimately I think you're probably right, though. Divorcing the notion that "geist=Death" will probably be for the best here. Even if it means technically the Geist can party itself into nonexistence.

A Geist partying and satisfying its needs into non-existance is a pretty Geist thing to do. After all, the Bargain as it is consists of "let me experience life, and I'll shunt off your death for a while". If you satisfy it too much, the Bargain is complete and the Geist goes where passed on ghosts go, but without actually sealing the part of the soul where the Geist was. Hence the tension of Geist and Sin-Eater: the Sin-Eater parties enough to keep the Geist happy and ghostbusts to make sure the Geist stays around, and the Geist provides the ghost busting tools to keep the Sin-Eater happy and demands to party to make sure the Sin-Eater remembers who wears the pants and doesn't get tempted into ripping the Geist out.

>>44898391

>At Life 1 you'd need to spend Plasm and roll Key+Psyche to get in, but you might be able to get out for free. At Death 1 you might be able to get in for free, but need a point of Plasm and a successful roll to get out.

Turn that "might" to a "always" and that sounds good. How are you planning on determine starting Synergy?
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>>44898733
Starting Synergy is going to be Life 3, which corresponds to Integrity 7.

>If you satisfy it too much, the Bargain is complete and the Geist goes where passed on ghosts go, but without actually sealing the part of the soul where the Geist was.
That was more or less my way of thinking. A Geist that somehow parties itself to Synergy Life 0 is like a Beast reaching full Satiety. It gets so satisfied it goes to sleep, and probably needs to be roused awake.

I'm also wondering how to handle Sin-eaters dying. I kinda like the whole "extra lives" thing, but tying it to Synergy never set right with me. Plus that's just completely incompatible with what I've got. My best answer was to cut out 5, then 4, then 3 for each death, but then you'd always swing WAY back with each Breaking Point.

But, in thinking about the OTHER splat with extra lives... I might just have each resurrection cost a point of Psyche, the same as Prometheans. Although I do wonder how that should work with Sanctity of Merits (which does count for other stats, if I recall). Just get 5xp back and you're no allowed to spend it on Psyche until your ST says? Or are you just out 5xp, and possibly dealing with the Broken Condition?
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>>44887993
The term itself isn't racist, the racist part is taking a term for a real-life ethnic group and using it for "deformed badness that should never have been born" in-game.
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>>44898902
Sanctity of Merits only applies to Merit dots, not other stats, even if they do cost xp.

Integrity and Humanity can be purchased with xp and can be lost; Willpower dots can be spent without getting an XP refund, Vampires can lose Blood Potency without getting an XP refund... I think costing a point of Psyche would be a good cost for revival.
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>>44899580
I remember at least one instance in one of the books where you can sacrifice an Attribute dot for 4xp. I just can't remember what.
Then again, it might have been a specific "sacrifice this for that" sort of thing.
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>>44899763
Sacrifice != sanctity though.
If you lost that strength from life-threatning illness that destroyed much of your muscle mass, you ain't get it back so easily
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>>44899850
Like I said, I swear I saw something where you lost an Attribute dot but got 4xp, and it might have been from some debilitating power and mentioned Sanctity of Merits, but I'm starting to think I might just be making that up and remembering something that doesn't exist.

Either way, yeah, Psyche seems like a good cost, and 5xp for an extra life isn't quite "fuck you" levels.
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Can someone give me a condensed Reader's Digest version of how True Fae work? I've got one making an appearance in my game, and have neither the time nor the Changeling books to dig through for specifics. I know that they're effectively gods when in their domain and kind of shit outside it, and that they exist as multiple entities at once. How does that shit work?

It's Hunter, not Changeling, so I don't exactly need to be precise, but I want to know what their actual deal is.
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>>44901136
No.

One, the True Fae don't have stats; they're Living Narratives that exist in their own dimension separate from ours. A True Fae can't pass through the Hedge from Arcadia because they are as much places as they are people.

They CAN create "Actors" (which are the actual manifestations of their various "Titles" in the form of beings) that can pass through, but they usually don't. They do have stats.

But that leads me to Two, which is - if you're not willing to actually read the Changeling books just use a different antagonist, it would take as long for us to explain Changeling's metaphysics and mechanics as it would for you to just read the damn books yourself.
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>>44901551
1) I don't actually have the Changeling books. One of my players likes it, so I threw in a brief "cameo" mention in our Hunter game, and I just learned they plan on investigating it and making that the focus of our next session (which starts in ~45 minutes). I'm trying to roll with it.

2) Thank you for your TL;DR of how True Fae work.
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>>44901136

True Fae are the nobles of Arcadia. They're amoral and live off of the concept of stories. Each entity they exist as is called a Title, a mythic figure that a fairy tale could revolve around. The parts of Arcadia they own is formed from those Titles. Because of their Titles and because of how they made a contract with every thing upon the earth to not kill them (except for iron), they are gods in Arcadia. True Fae try to mess with each other's stories often, to steal their opponents's Titles. When a True Fae loses all its Titles, it no longer exists.

They love humans in their inhuman way, because humans create their own new stories, while True Fae can only recycle old ones. This extends to other creative efforts. So, on occasion, they'll head to our world and steal people away to use them. In the world beyond the Hedge, the True Fae are powerful but not godlike, because they have to settle on one form and being to roam the earth, as opposed to being in Arcadia where they can be all their Titles at once. Killing a True Fae in this state will destroy or damage only one Title. For reasons unknown to anyone, True Fae will sometimes exile their own to live in our world forever. If these exiled True Fae are weakened enough, they could pass for a Changeling and find a place in a Freehold, though this almost never ends well, since the True Fae doesn't change much mentally.
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>>44901877
Is there a difference between "the world beyond the Hedge" and Arcadia? I thought the Hedge was what separated Arcadia from the mortal world.
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>>44902007
Arcadia, the Fae Homeworld and Arcadia, the supernal realmmay or may not be the same thing
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>>44902101
>"In the world beyond the Hedge, the True Fae are powerful but not godlike, because they have to settle on one form and being to roam the earth, as opposed to being in Arcadia where they can be all their Titles at once."

So what does this mean, then?
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>>44902173
Same thing it meant when my cousin got naked on camera but wouldn't have sex with me for money - that the whole world of darkness is out to get the little guy
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>>44902007
>>44902173

The Hedge is not Arcadia, but it functions as an in-between separating everything that is Arcadia and everything that is not. Parts of the world outside are here, if magically altered, and the True Fae can still roam it in all their glory if they wanted.

Think of everything outside Arcadia (The Supernal, The Fallen, The Shadow, The Twilight Frequencies, The Astral, etc) as land and Arcadia as the ocean. The Hedge is like the shallow waters and shoreline on a beach. True Fae can swim in the ocean and the shallow waters all they like, but if they want to walk on the land, they need to make a change to adapt to it.
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>>44902173
Think of it this way - in Arcadia, a True Fae isn't just the King of a kingdom; he's also the kingdom itself, and his castle, and his guards, and a knight who's currently adventuring in a forieign land (which is also another True Fae) to win the hand of a beautiful maiden (who may or may not be the same True Fae as the land he's in, and is possibly trying to kill him.)

They're living stories that tell themselves. They only come to our world to take people to help populate their stories because people are something they can't completely control, and add interesting randomness to their stories; one of the only things that can truly kill a True Fae is ennui.

Outside of Arcadia, a True Fae has to work through an Actor - an individual incarnation of the Fae under the guise of one of it's titles - in my example above, the Knight that went on the quest would be an Actor (with a grand title like "The Knight of Bloody Thorns" or something similar). He would be able to travel through the Hedge to the real world, and would be VERY powerful, possessing basically whatever Contracts it would make sense for his Title to Entitle him to (you could approximate these with Dread Powers). Killing it wouldn't kill the actual True Fae, though. It MIGHT cause it to lose the title, but that's it.
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are the "Low magic" rules from second sight any good?
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>>44883611
Not the same poster but I'd also like to know. I mainly just wing it.
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>>44902782
Yees
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>>44903060
There's always this, but it's really just for hunter.
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For some reason I want a Camelot Freehold. Yes I'm gonna crowbar a large number of Monty Python references in there, just you try and stop me.
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>>44903441

Well I mean, even if I wanted to, I can't. It's not like I can travel through the internet.

On that note, who can travel through the Internet in both settings? It's just Virtual Adepts, Glass Walkers, and Free Council/any Mage with sufficient Forces and/or Mind, right?
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>>44903923
Forces and Mind projects the mind into the Internet.
Forces and Space allows teleportation using the internet as a vector.
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>>44903441

Which Court would have members with huge...! Tracts of land?
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>>44903923
Well Idid have the idea that one of the people who guards the Camelot freehold from within the hedge is Knight in black armor who is made of Kudzu and Tomatoes. The other its a gargantuan who was originally three people.

Also the only way to get into the freehold it with Camelot snow globe but, unless you know how it works, it's only a model.
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>>44903994
Spring would be obvious answer.
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>>44903923
Demons can use Behind the Curtain to travel through the God-Machine's infrastructural magic-internet, if that counts.
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>>44903994
How do entitlements work? The reason being, well, this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfGpVcdqeS0
Yes a Knights of the Round Table Entitlement based on speaking in rhyme would be good. no I do not regret anything about saying this in the slightest.
>>
Onyx Path knows what you've been waiting for, WoD General, and they're not afraid to give it to you.

That's right: more Conditions cards are finally here!

http://theonyxpath.com/cofd-and-werewolf-2e-condition-cards/
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>>44904846

Yea, it'll be easy to forget that Mage and Promethean 2e are still languishing in the approval, editing and layout void now that we have these super duper new Condition Cards.

This is the equivalent to OPP shouting "look squirrel..." in response to release date inquiries.
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>>44904980
What else are they going to do, not release them?
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>>44904980
>>44904846
I honestly don't mind these, and wish they came sooner.
>PDF version still costs 4$
Fucking hell. I could make my own that look better.
>>
Haven't been in /wodg/ in 4 months, glad to see mage 2e is still not fucking out. Jesus christ.
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>>44906810

Welcome back! If it's any comfort, Mage 2e's at Paradox for approval. Also just so you know, Paradox owns the WoD and Exalted IP now, and restarted White Wolf. Onyx Path works through them now.
>>
I love the dialogue options in Bloodlines.

>Old man tells me about a thief who got caught and is held in someone's freezer in town, says he wants the guy's eyes.
>"That's sick! I'll go get them".
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>>44897776
>>44897892
My thought was that the Brujah of the city just got sick of all the petty power politics and said "fuck it, we'll start our own little undead anarchist collective."

This lasted quite a while, but then the city changed hands, and the new Prince, who is more than a little unstable, doesn't trust these weird vampires who don't come to show their fealty or anything and just seem to do whatever they want, so he decides to wipe them out since nobody will miss them anyway.
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>>44908542
>fuck it, we'll start our own little undead anarchist collective.
So they are Anarchs, then. But then you don't really need to require them all to be Brujah, as prone as the rabble may be to go that route.
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>>44908542
... isn't that literally what the Anarchs are? And why is it only this one clan that feels that way?
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>>44908580
>>44908589
Ah. I don't know the setting well enough, I guess. And the Brujah are already known for being rebellious and tending to stick together more than other clans, so I thought it made sense. Guess it works better if they're a bunch of Anarchs who the people in charge want taken out, and they can be from (almost?) any clan.

Any clans you'd recommend not allowing players to use?
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>>44908638
Just stick with whatever's in the corebook.
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Slow thread...
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>>44911549
Well, we could bitch about how Mage 2e still isn't out. But that's been done to death now, hasn't it?
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>>44912131
Yep, absolutely. Instead, let's talk about what kinda awful beasties we've made with the horrors rules from CofD
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>>44904980
it's a fuckin release dude, it has nothing to do with Mage and Promethean 2e
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>>44912493
Ooh, fun. I've most recently made a beastie from the lower depths to stalk the mage in a future campaign. Has discorporate(turns into a swarm of spiders of since it lures mages into its web), maze, know soul, and soul thief with the condition that it must drain all the targets mana first. It lures mages in by setting up fake mysteries for them to follow.
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>>44912131

I plan on first replicating Innsmouth and its monsters for my Mage 2e game, my player has the misfortune to have not read said story by the great H. P. Lovecraft.

P.S. Are they almost finished with the layout?
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How about we also share I ideas for what some emanation realms and similar odd places we'll feature in our games? I, for one, will aim to copy the Fallen London/Sunless Sea/Undersea setting for an emanation relam.
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>>44913233
Do your best to scare the shit out of your players for me. My players are too goddamned jaded to spook, and Lovecraft can really freak someone out if they haven't read it.
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>>44913233
>Are they almost finished with the layout

Yes, they're "almost" finished. However, until Paradox approves the book, layout cannot be completed.
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>>44913290
I don't really know much about emanation realms. What do we actually know?
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>>44913325

From Imperial Mysteries they are places between the Abyss and the supernal realms (being in them does not delete your soul). They will apparently be accessible to all mages, though only those crazy enough to reach them via exploring supernal verges.
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>>44913501
So, could one possibly explore the timeline that the prince of a thousand leaves wants to replace ours with?
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>>44913568

That timeline is part of the Abyss, not a supernal emanation realm. Any exploration would quickly be terminal, or worse.
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>>44913859
I was more curious if that realm could be emanated.
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That realm is an Annunaki, which is basically an Abyssal equivalent of an Emanation Realm. So yes.
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>>44913568
>Late to the Consillium.gif

IT'S A STRIX!!

KILL IT!!
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>>44914842
If a Strix has infiltrated the consillium You have some real problems. Because a Strix has a plan always have a plan.
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So I have this idea about a Cabal of Awakened vampire hunters.
Not indiscriminate destroyers or such, they just hunt the vampires who enslave humans (beyond their base need to survive).
The group mix would be at it's core Free Council (They do it for the pro-humanity thoughts, and they see the enslavement as propagation of the Lie), with Adamantine Arrow coming close second (A worthy goal, and a great challenge). A Silver Ladder (filthy terata, wipe them out) and a Mysterium (originally just a go-to lore guy, but he is now part of the Cabal) back them up.

These would be background characters to a Mage campaign, causing interesting political problems with the Vampires in the domain.

Is this a reasonable Cabal, or just a stupid idea?
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>>44915142
Seems a little unfair to pit Vampires against people who can control fire and sunlight
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>>44915166
That's exactly what the Mages think. Most of them have picked up at least a fair smattering of Forces. If nothing else, so that they can help contain the fires that inevitably springs up in any proper vampire hunt.
One of them will be a Tamer of Blood though.
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What's your opinion of these Devotions?
Secret Vigil
(Auspex •••)
Kindred have a multitude of subtle abilities, they can be hard to deal with, but the first step is to be aware of when they happen.
Cost: 1 Vitae
Dice Pool: None
Action: Instant
Duration: 1 Scene
For as long as Secret Vigil is kept up, your character becomes immediately aware whenever she is affected by a supernatural ability. Secret Vigil does not tell her what power it is that affects her, or the source of it, merely that someone has done something.
This Devotion costs 1 Experience to learn.

Shadowed Soul
(Obfuscate •••, Auspex •)
The Beast is canny, and skilled at finding secrets, when directed by someone skilled. Some Kindred have felt a need to hide from it's gaze. Shadowed Soul does not cloak the vampire itself from sight, but makes it harder to figure out her secrets.
Cost: 1 Vitae
Dice Pool: None
Action: Reflexive
Duration: 1 Scene
Shadowed Soul protects the Kindred from Auspex, and other similar abilities. Any power that would try to scrutiny her is subject to a Clash of Wills. If the Kindred with Shadowed Soul wins, nothing can be learned.
This Devotion costs 2 Experiences to learn.
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>>44915366
Seem decent, but why Auspex or Obfuscate 3? Seems like it'd be fine at a lower level.
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>>44915427
Auspex 3 for the first one... eh... Because I fucked up and mixed up "wide area scan" for "object scan". I'll drop it a level. Just Auspex 1 seems a bit too cheap though. Or am I just being prissy?

Obfuscate 3 is because you are hiding yourself, basically. I feel this goes beyond the mere shrouding of Obf1.
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>>44915466
Auspex 2 is whats needed to see spell being cast by a mage. So stand to reason that they may see other magical effect as base of the power. Perhaps for secret vigil it vould last 1 night.


I do love that shadowed soul totally taking that for my vampire enemy's.
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>>44915366
>>44915717
Aren't things like Auspex already Resisted, possibly even Contested?
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>>44915730
Auspex reviels hidden stuff and shows things the vampire would not normally see. So seeing a spell cast would not be contested or resisted. But a power that let a person go unseen or effect that ment to not be known would.
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>>44915717
>I do love that shadowed soul totally taking that for my vampire enemy's.

I invented it for a Strixed Mekhet, the mere fact that he clashed the abilities creeped them out.

>>44915730
Nope. Hence the Devotion.
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>>44915804
Yay I see your point. But vampires dont always know the enters clash of wills. I think only mages get that ALL the time.
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What Arcana does a mage need to summon something from the Lower Depths or open a gateway to these realms?
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>>44915853
Space & probably Life?
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>>44915853
3 or 4 of any I think. Look into the summoners book for more info.
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>>44915853
Depends on the realm, I'd say. Not all of the Lower Depths are equal.
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>>44915883

Some Depths are Lower than others?
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While we're on the topic, can mages enter the Hedge, and what Arcana would they need?
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>>44915889
Tere is prolly a Lower Depths with NO Arcana. I'm not sure how to feel about this.
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>>44914842
You'd think in an entire Consillium, there'd be someone good enough with either Fate or Time to get an early warning that something like a strig's gonna come. Even if nobody in the Consillium knows what it IS, they'll know something like "a spirit will possess the body of one of our own and try to infiltrate us, we should prepare accordingly."

It's hard to do "planning" at all when everyone playing has powers that can see the future. Either you rule that all of the divination powers just balance out and nobody gets an advantage, or the one with the better ones will always win.
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>>44915889
Yep. "The Lower Depths" is merely Mage Speak for "Creepy Realm, we don't know all about it that we'd like to."
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>>44915911
They can open the hedge with space or fate 2. But they may ONLY enter at hedge openings they can't make any new ones. Futher once in the ONLY way out is a true exit, they can't teleport out or exit in sny other way.
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>>44915917
If you read gnosopharm it show how the seers of the throne handle the strixs. I will give you a hint not well at all.
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>>44915948

In Changeling, isn't every doorway or anything similar a potential entrance to the Hedge? If so, those limitations don't appear too limiting.
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>>44915988
Not so true Changelings make hedge openings. While everyone else would have to find a opening.
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>>44915948
Why do you assume that Fate would at all be needed?

Arcana can't do everything.
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>>44915889
>>44915912
>Some Depths are Lower than others?

In the CofD, there must be some truly hideous realms even "lower" than the lowest of the Lower Depths. We probably just need to wait for a new game line in order to learn about them.
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>>44915969

>gnosopharm?
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>>44916088
Opening a gateway with magic is impossible unless the gateway has a key. If it does, the mage can, of course, use the key normally (more about keys can be found on p. 216 of Changeling: The Lost). Another option is to fool the Hedge into thinking the key has been fulfilled. This requires a Veiling Fate spell (similar to the Fate 3 “Fabricate Fortune” spell). This spell is considered vulgar in aspect. If the spell succeeds, the gateway opens for a number of turns equal to the caster’s successes.

Page 75 of Equinox Road
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>>44916088
Actually the changeling book Equinox Road say so. But it was fate 3 not 2 as I thought.
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Has there been anything else said about Outsider: The Calling?

I know I should just mash demon and mage together, but outer gods are more fun/sticky.
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>>44916093
But... it is a stated fact that the Ocean of Fragments is what's at the bottom. Whatever's beneath it could probably not be thought of as going "further down" - it's either the ultimate end of the road (oblivion), or it's a case of going so far down you end up back at the top (reincarnation, transcendence, or whatever is the matter with heaven or the "true afterlife").
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>>44916148
>Outsider: The Calling?

What?
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>>44916162
>Ocean of Fragments

Aren't the Lower Depths considered even "lower" than anything in the Underworld.
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>>44916179
I thought they're a part of the Underworld?
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>>44916098
It a short story about a woman who becomes a hunter. And how love can even corrupt the strix. Its in the horror recognition guide.
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>>44915969
To be fair, The Seers and the Pentacle have a veeeery different mindset. Seers basically view themselves as indestructible, as seen in gnosopharm.
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>>44916188
Same turm defferent things. Lower depth are below reality.
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>>44916188
Oh no. Not at all. There is an area called the lower depths in the underworld, but if someone's talking about the lower depths, it's not that. They're talking about Abaddon. The anti worlds.
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>>44916188

Nope. The Underworld is very different from the Lower Depths. I believe you might be confusing the various Lower Depths with the Dead Dominions in the Underworld.

Our reality consists of the material realm, Shadow, Underworld and Astral (and possibly the Hedge). The Lower Depths and Supernal Realms are outside our reality.
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>>44916202
Thinking they are the greatest is a mage thing. Yay seers do take it to the extreme, rarely proven wrong but when it happens well you know. They all die.
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>>44916189
>And how love can even corrupt the strix

A strix in love? I might have to track down the Horror Recognition Guide and read the story.
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>>44916284
The strix possessed the woman's husband. It might have been pure love of the husband for his wive, mabye the seer drugs injected into strix possessed body. But the strix allowed the woman to live after slaughtering the seerers. Claiming that he was corrupted by her.
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>>44916327

>tfw no corrupted strix gf
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>>44916327
>But the strix allowed the woman to live after slaughtering the seerers.

Was there a good battle between the strix and Seers.
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>>44916396
Not a battle of good vs evil. Just turf and the fact the seers stepped into the strix right to possess people.
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>>44916188
>>44916236
>>44916257

There's an area of the Underworld called the Lower *Mysteries*, and another called the Autocthonious Depths.

People do keep getting them mixed up with the Lower Depths, which are something else entirely.
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>>44916279
But, fact is, mages are famously paranoid.
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>>44916497
Maybe that's a hint you should be more varied with your naming scheme. Look at all the disambiguation pages on the White Wolf wikis. Every term you've ever used has already been used six times.
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>>44916396
Battle? Nope. More like slaughter. Swarm of Strix caught the Seers off guard. It was brutal.
>>
>>44916527
The underworld layers were named in Geist, which is not known for being... well written.
>>
>>44916516
Very true. But there is little to no info on the Strix, after all few life a strix attack.
>>
>>44916532
It was the leaders of a pylon right? So not some chump mages with little defences .
>>
>>44916497
You know Dave, I think if there was a Lower Depths with NO Arcana present in it, it would be rather horrifying.
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>>44916577
Wait as in none of the arcana? How would it even exist!? It would be a void.
>>
>>44916527
>Maybe that's a hint you should be more varied with your naming scheme. Look at all the disambiguation pages on the White Wolf wikis. Every term you've ever used has already been used six times.

Everything is confusing OOC, and even studious mages in the setting have difficulty distinguishing certain phenomena and creatures, no less use consistent naming protocols. It almost makes one sympathize with the difficulties faced by moral hunters.

How do hunters prepare when all they know is that they might be fighting a "demon?"
>>
>>44916497

Can mages use the Arcana to summon things from the Lower Depths or enter any of the realms, or must they use the same techniques as regular humans?
>>
>>44916590
>How would it even exist!?
Something tells me it either technically wouldn't, or it'd be a cannibal.
>>
>>44916612
Now that I think about it. It might be like grandmother from CWOD.
>>
>>44916625
Grandmother?
>>
>>44916577
>>44916590
>NO Arcana present in it

Isn't that the Abyss?
>>
How would you mechanically model being knocked unconscious by chloroform or something similar in CofD. The poison/drug rules in the core book are frustrating me to no end.
>>
>>44916630
One of the last threat in classic world of darkness. A creature of oblivion that want/trying to devour all of reality. Some clam its the evil twin of God or the remants of a dead universe. It's also known as grand maw
>>
>>44916650

Recurring bashing damage after a grapple.
>>
>>44916631
Hmm true. But what they want would be entirely different. The abyss wants to remove all magic while the lower depth would want to devour all magic in a sense.
>>
>>44916497
Say Dave sense Strix are from the lower depths, and creatures from the lower depths steal mana. Could Strix drain mana like how they can take vitae?
>>
>>44916702
>creatures from the lower depths steal mana

What?
>>
>>44916708
Creatures of the lower depths are missing a arcana and a such take patterns from others. I believe they take about this in mage core book? Not sure but they prefer mages as they have better patterns and mana to take.
>>
>>44916595
Yeah, but just because it's confusing to the characters doesn't mean it has to be difficult for the players. When I'm discussing elements of the setting with another storyteller, I want us both to be on the same page in regards to what we're talking to. It's bad enough that the same word in my language means "spirit", "ghost", "wraith", and "wind", there's no word for "ephemera" at all, no difference between "seer" and "oracle", no good way of using appropriating the English terms, and no good way of saying "fairy" in a non-feminine grammatical form).
>>
>>44916167
>http://outsiderthecalling.blogspot.com.au/
Looks like a fan-splat. There's a blog about it with a link to a draft but it looks like it hasn't been worked on in years.
>>
>>44917347
Wasn't it the one about being fondled by something horrible from another dimension? I wonder what the hunter stereotype for them would be...
>>
Which Bloodline uses Insomnium? I'm asking because the idea of a Beast getting it's metaphysical clock cleaned by a truly ancient one of these is funny to me.
>>
>>44918316
Alucinor, the Sandmen
>>
>>44916728
"The lower depths" is not one place. There are dozens to hundreds of them, all missing one thing or another. Not all of those are missing "Mana" specifically.
>>
>>44918640
And not all of them are missing things.
>>
I just had a thought. If Kira Yoshikage was a Mage He'd either be an Obrimos with Stewards of the Celestial Orrey as his Legacy (Because BITE ZA DUSTO!), that or he's Sixth Watchtower who somehow got into the aforementioned Legacy
>>
>>44919153
Fuck off back to /a/
>>
>>44919163
You know you didn't have to reply.
>>
>>44919153
Stand users are best statted as Proximi, imo
>>
>>44919291
Fairy nuff. I can see that working for some part 3 Stands (Namely Tenore Sax, Cream, The World and Hermit Purple) and all of them from part 4 onwards.
>>
>>44916142
>>44916109
That really just feels like more Faeries=Fate stuff. I mean, as far as I'm aware, you can't open a Keyed Verge or an Avernian Gateway with Fate.

>>44916148
>>44917347
Seeing abandoned projects makes me wonder if maybe I should pick them up...

Also, is the ban on Blogspot lifted? Literally the only reason I got a Tumblr is because I couldn't link my original blog on 4chan.

>>44916527
It's not like real life doesn't need disambiguation pages. I just wish it wasn't so difficult to talk about a vampire's inner demon and the ostensibly crossover heavy tenth Chronicles of Darkness game line at the same time.

>>44916749
Problem of language. Hell, in English spirit, ghost, wraith, and many others are synonyms. As for Fairy... just switch the ending to an -i or -o or -a or whichever is correct. Although, what, are you Hawaiian or something, that your language has so few synonyms?
>>
>>44919395

>Seeing abandoned projects makes me wonder if maybe I should pick them up...

Finish. Your. Projects.

Speaking of, that Werewolf game happen yet?
>>
>>44919395
>what, are you Hawaiian or something, that your language has so few synonyms?

Native Hebrew speaking Israeli. Our language spent the last 2,000 years in cryofreeze, any concept that didn't either exist back in biblical times or was vitally necessary for modern day-to-day communication still haven't made the change. We normally just pepper our language with English words (and Russian, and Arabic, and Yiddish) but since they don't fit grammatically within the Hebrew language most of them stand out and are uncomfortable to use regularly. If a game requires you to constantly deal with spirits, ghosts, wraiths and the wind (or, God have mercy, spirits of ghost winds), it's going to come out really stuttered. It's not an issue in PBP or Skype games since fluency in English is common, but around the tabletop... stuff's going to sound ridiculous.

It's odd, because World of Darkness is really common here. Certainly more common than Exalted and Shadowrun, both of which have Hebrew translations (also, bizarrely, Don't Rest Your Head, which is all about puns that got lost in the translation). Werewolf: The Apocalypse, for example, has a vibrant community in Israel and the Hebrew language doesn't HAVE a word for "werewolf". You either use a cumbersome Hebrew pastiche or the equally awkward "werewolf" since in the plural it's "werewolfim", which makes you sound like a retard to say out loud.
>>
>>44919506
You're making it sound far worse than it is. There are very few terms from Apocalypse the community in Israel hasn't come up with an adequate translation for. The only terms that are even remotely problematic are "fetish", Auspice (official translation is מולד ירח, which is actually a clever pun because it means both "moon birth" and astrological phenomenon) and then only when it comes to writing, Glass Walkers (most people use the English term, which is surprisingly appropriate in character for LARPing or just call them הלכי זכוכית, which has the added advantage of being interpretable as "Glass Strangers"), and Get of Fenris. With the last one, you make do by calling them "Fenrir" or plural "Fenririm".

Everything else there's no problem with either a literal translation or using the English word. Wind spirits are understood based on context. The Wyrm is התולע. That Hebrew just so happens to also have a word meaning both "dragon" and "vermin" is admittedly mysterious and kind of creepy, but it's there if you're a little creative.
>>
>>44918640
Never ment to imply the was only ONE lower depths or that mana was missing. What they are missing somthing from the supernal realms though that not mentioned in the core book. I found the little bit from the core book.

~Some mages believe there is another world below the Fallen World, a place even further removed from the Supernal World. This place is called the Lower Depths. It is theorized that creatures from the Lower Depths might occasionally find their way to the Fallen World, where they probably need a lot of Mana to survive — Mana best taken from Awakened sources.~

So yay like I implied they do take mana.
>>
What would someone with 5 in every attribute be like to interact with?
>>
>>44919489
One of the reasons I work on other projects is because when I stall on one it can help to do something else. I feel like five projects that are unfinished is better than one project that's unfinished.

Also, Werewolf has sort of happened. I did one prelude, and I was supposed to do others, but I can never get people on for them. Actually, that's not entirely true, I've just been too tired to do them, and the last few days I've been dealing with stuff like a lack of heat.
The prelude went well, though. A little touch and go, but it was mostly just to get the player feeling for his character.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gDh48J7fLhjE_8pWtu81_1rOLBPiqHwNFlayFbCKWL8/edit?usp=sharing
I just realized the "next" session is supposed to be tonight, though, so I need to either run another prelude or just throw my players (and myself) into the first session. But I honestly have no idea what to do. My reason for doing Werewolf was the pack creation, but due to various circumstances, that didn't go as well as I'd hoped and my players only see each other during the time slot. Doesn't help that one player doesn't seem as on board as everyone else, or on the same page as me, and doesn't get along with me that much. I worry about either kicking him now or having it threaten to break the game later...

>>44920171
Pic related
>>
>>44919395
I agree, arcana can't do everything and most certainly not open Avernian Gates with Fate same with keyed verges. But why Fate can open door to the hedge is that they make a deal to be allowed inside.
>>
>>44920208
Doesn't help that I slacked off on reading Werewolf while everyone else was doing Holiday stuff, so I'm not 100% sure how everything works, not that it's all explained in the corebook.

>>44920260
Yes, but by that same logic you could argue the same for any Keyed gateway. "I make Fate think I have the Key."

>>44919506
Interesting. I won't get into too much of a linguistics rant, since apparently even when not related to pronouns people hate that, but that IS kind of sounding like an argument for why "that's not a word" is a terrible argument. What do you call computers in Isreali? I'm also surprised WoD has a Hebrew fandom. Only person I know who loves it and speaks Hebrew is just a Jewish American. Pretty sure their ancestry is Germanic.

>>44919707
Why are Fetish and Auspice difficult? Although Google gives מולד ירח back as "new moon", so I can see why that might be confusing. How does Hebrew not have a word for Auspicious? It's pretty common in religious use.

>>44920132
Feels like a bit of putting everything into Mage cosmology (since you ARE playing Mage).
>>
>>44920279
>>44920132
Keep in mind that that mention was in a Mage book, which is explicitly talking about what mages know about the Lower Depths (which is very little).

They might be most familiar with beings from Lower Depths that want Mana, but Mana or missing Arcana aren't the only things that could be "missing" in a Lower Depth.

I mean, look at Duat - I theorize that what it's missing is Sekhem, since that's why the Judges of Duat want Mummies to keep sending it to them through sacrificing Vessels to them.
>>
>>44920279
I see your point, except for the fact only the hedge makes deals. Sense fairies are all about fate I can see how fate lets them in. But for like the Avernian Gates I would think they are like the underworld uncaring of and unchanging to the whims of others.
>>
>>44920439
>I mean, look at Duat - I theorize that what it's missing is Sekhem, since that's why the Judges of Duat want Mummies to keep sending it to them through sacrificing Vessels to them.
Not knowing anything about Mummy, that's interesting. But I don't really know what it means.

What is Sekhem, and why would the Judges need it? Does everything naturally have Sekhem? What are the Judges?
>>
>>44920508
Sekhem I think is the raw fabrics of creation it its purest form.
While the judges are extremely powerful keepers of the dead and rulers of the underworld (not the same underworld as Geist). They were created by the Nameless Gods Irem (I think its Irem).
>>
>>44920599
As far as I can tell, it is the same Underworld.

Although CAS is intentionally ignoring most of the WoD for Mummy.
>>
File: Fool Moon 3.png (5 MB, 1696x2291) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
Fool Moon 3.png
5 MB, 1696x2291
New thread

>>44920659
>>44920659
>>44920659

I really need to update some of my older images. But at the same time, I'm really lazy, and my computer is too slow to deal with GIMPing.
>>
>>44920644
It's not. Duat isn't in the Underworld of Geist and the other games.
>>
>>44920644
Actually that part I know it different. It mentioned by Dave that mummies call there afterlife (duat) the underworld. He talk about that in the OPP forms for mummies crossover. Here I will share you the like.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/mummy-the-curse/521150-making-crossover-work-for-mummy/page5
>>
>>44920744
So Mummy has a different Underworld? How does that work? Do Egyptians go somewhere else when they die?
>>
>>44920744
Hay Dave do all akathartos take mana or just the Hound of Annwn?
>>
>>44915366
These are really good! Nicely done.
>>
>>44920835
>It's like that the Arisen call it the Underworld out of a limited understanding of the afterlife.

It's almost definitely a Lower Depth that the Judges reside in/tap into.
>>
>>44920279
Hebrew for computer is מחשב. It's a literal translation (as in, it's a noun that means "something that does computing"), but it's become an official bit of the language because it IS one of those words a modern language cannot do without. Names for obscure types of supernatural creatures from roleplaying games, not so much.

>Why are Fetish and Auspice difficult? Although Google gives מולד ירח back as "new moon", so I can see why that might be confusing. How does Hebrew not have a word for Auspicious? It's pretty common in religious use.
Fetish, as I said, is only problematic in writing. Hebrew uses the same letter for the P and F sounds, and doesn't normally use vowels except under certain circumstances. The word "fetish" is thus written exactly like the word "patish" (meaning "hammer", and pronounced completely differently). Many a young Israeli boy surfing the internet has gotten very confused by this. As for auspicious - what can I say? The evolution of language is a funny thing. Hebrew simply has no word for it. You could describe the concept, but at minimum, you'd need two words (say, מבשר טובות, although for "auspice" you'd probably need three, which is already very cumbersome). Besides, it's a weird language about the things that it does focus on. Like the soul. Hebrew has A LOT of words for describing what English would call "the soul". Each has different connotations, meanings and contexts. Or CLEANLINESS, Hebrew has a TON of words for cleanliness. Know how in English you wash your hands, wash your feet, wash your hair, wash your face, wash your body, wash your clothes, wash the floor, wash the dishes, wash your car and so on? In Hebrew, they're each a different word. And there are types that don't even EXIST in the English language (as words of their own). Various types of washing, under various circumstances, of various things, etc.

"400 words for snow".
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