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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

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I send the hired help to spring a trap with his face edition
Useful links now here: http://pastebin.com/JtFH682q

Link for the Trove: https://mega.co.nz/#F!3FcAQaTZ!BkCA0bzsQGmA2GNRUZlxzg
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>>44869506
I need as many OSR classes you can find /tg/

There's this
http://awizardskiss.blogspot.com/2013/02/flailsnails-compatible-race-class.html

But I know there's more out there. Blogs that are incessant class builders are really welcome.
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>>44869812
have you checked out the badass and EXTREMELY OSR Orcs of Thar classes?
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Can someone post their best example of classic orcs? I thought I had a nice trove but now I can't find it. I like classic monster images for inspiration, preferably scenes and not 2e MM.
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>>44870061
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>>44870061
Peruse the versimilitudinous milieu of Orcs of Thar.
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Never realized how much AD&D2E content there is.
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I've condensed all of my annoying houserules as simply and micro as I can; hence the one page pdf

Can anyone tell me (besides Races obviously) of anything really bad I am missing? I really want to try something like this to run a game.
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>>44870535
ahhhh, so wandsguy and savesguy are all the same person as jizzguy, everything makes sense now
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Anyone here play or enjoy Into the Odd? I am raiding the developer blog currently and am quite enjoying it, but does it have a player base?
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>>44870617
>wandsguy
>savesguy
>jizzguy
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>>44871037
the guy that got pissed off over not liking wands = wandguy
the guy that wrote fic about masturbation causing goblins of jizz and houserules to force people to play them sometimes, along with speculating punishment if they commit suicide = jizzguy
the mysterious guy who posted saving throw pdfs of which not much was known = savesguy
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>>44869812

Labyrinth Lord has a bunch of third-party classes in the Trove. Most aren't all that great, though.
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>>44871080

4chan is Anonymous for a reason. Knock it off.
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>>44869874
I'm making my way through the Gazetteers, still at the Alfheim one. Mystara owns so hard. The setting made traditional elves interesting.
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>>44869874
What makes them so OSR?
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>>44871317
Not that anon but calling it extremely OSR may be to cut some complaints off at the pass.

Some misguided souls don't like the lighthearted tone and extreme gonzo high fantasy of Mystara. It's not OSR to them because it's not grim weird fantasy of blood and guts or it's not swords and sorcery.

Fuck em.

This is the official setting of BECMI. It's as OSR as it gets.
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>>44871021

Speaking of this; has anyone here played modern or mostly modern style OSR games? I could see some potential in that but it mostly seems fantasy based.
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>>44871317
>What makes them so OSR?

The OSRiest thing I can think of is writing CLASS: ELF or whatever, so CLASS: ORC or CLASS: TROLL is pretty OSRy.
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>>44870299
They were called T$R for a reason, y'know.

Part of that was because of the metric tons of merchandise, but also because good god that's a lot of splatbooks.

I think that, in terms of number of supplements, it probably goes 3E>2E>4E>1E>5E>OD&D?

>>44870158
It's worth noting that Orcs of Thar is from '88 and has a largely comedic bent on the whole thing. The closest modern comparison would probably be Orks, I reckon.
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>>44872179
I think 2e actually beats 3e in terms of purely first-party content.
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>>44872253
Note that I didn't count up all the online 3e articles, so that would tip it.
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>>44871021
I think it's neat, but I can't really get into it, honestly.
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>>44872292

Why not? Any particular reason with the rules or setting?
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>>44872179
It is very orky, but don't know what else he'd possibly want.
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>>44870090
Those orcs are cute
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>>44872349
Nothing much, I think it's a tightly designed game that accomplishes well what it sets out to do, but as much as I hate to sound like a pleblord, my main gripe is probably the combat: there's just not much to do with it, though not any more so than many OSR games (the general lack of mechanical options in combat is something that bugs me about a lot of OSR games, though I still favour them as a family of rules light RPGs).
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I'm generally pretty interested in LotFP (not necessarily in the setting/modules, but its take on the OSR rules)... would anyone care to give me a rundown on how the classes work differently, especially with regards to combat?

As I understand it, fighters are the main types who scale in combat with levels in all ways, halflings mostly are really hard to hit and good at combining dex and armor for AC... dwarves are very tanky in general, etc?

Okay. So do monsters become unhittable to some PCs over time or is there some bounded accuracy? This may be an issue for dwarves if their attacks don't scale.
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>>44872467
True, that.

>>44870061
You know, I really wonder why the RPG industry went away from more monstrous orcs and goblins. You hardly ever see them anymore - hell, the only real examples I can think of these days are from The Legend of Zelda.
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>>44872695
Because you can't masturbate to hideous little greeblies.
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One thing I noticed while looking through OD&D: you can't actually be unable to hit someone.

No, really.

The lowest AC something can have is 2 - dragons or someone in plate with a shield, basically. To hit AC 2 is, at worst, 17. Magic plate and shield don't really stack (and I'd assume that neither does a Ring of Protection), so that's at most a -3 adjustment from the attack roll - so you need to roll a 20.

That's pretty interesting!

Now, thinking on it a bit more I suppose that there are things that CAN make you unable to hit someone - if you have 8 Dex you can't hit the +3 plate guy with ranged weapons if you're level one, and if you have a -2 sword then you're probably also fucked.

But otherwise, though, I find that really fascinating. Especially so because Protection From Evil explicitly doesn't stack with magic armor and rings.
I wonder what made Gygax change it for Greyhawk, where you had monsters with AC-1 and could get AC-8 from magic armor and shields. Maybe it was an Arnesson thing?
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Is Orcs of Thar even in the trove?
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>>44872869
Yes.
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>>44872787
That's cool. In my probably-not-qualifying-asOSR original RPG I'm trying to keep the maths similar to early D&D in terms of how much work people are to kill, etc., and I found the probabilities involved with level 1ish types vs attacks on AC 10 through 0 to be very cozy.

One of the most important things in action oriented RPGs I think is keeping flunky types relevant and modifiers rare and meaningful.
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>>44872914
I've been looking for 30 minutes and I haven't found gazetteer 8 yet. Are you sure? It's neither under TSR nor magazines
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>>44873198
TSR\Basic D&D\Basic D&D Gazetteer Series\Gaz 10
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>>44873198
GAZ8 is also there.
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>>44873214
Thanks.
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>>44870535

Updated with races.
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>made the last 3-4 or so OSR threads
>just now looked in the treasure trove

Holy moly, where to fucking start.
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>>44871444
>>Some misguided souls don't like the lighthearted tone and extreme gonzo high fantasy of Mystara
The only thing I know about Mystara is that it is in the title of the Shadows over Mystara video game. Could you educate a baby on what makes the setting extreme gonzo high fantasy?
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>>44873769
Not him.

The Orcs of Thar is very orky in tone, there's a Cult of the Frog that takes orders from space aliens, there's a Hollow Earth you can adventure in, and so forth. However, as with most OSR offerings death is fucking everywhere so I don't really find it overly silly.
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>>44873793
>a Cult of the Frog that takes orders from space aliens
The DA series takes place in the past.

I'd actually say Greyhawk is more gonzo.
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>>44873799
Good point, its been about... 13 years or so? more? since I read the Froggie stuff. I don't really get it either. I do notice a recurring bit of light heartedness (the extremely silly names in the Broken Lands etc).
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>>44873703
>!GM Resources/Old School Reneissance Handbook.pdf
>!GM Resources/Primer.pdf
are both a good start, obviously, if you don't already have a system that you're interested in.

If you do have a system you're interested in, navigate to the relevant folder and pick out the juiciest-looking bits.

>>44873793
>I don't really find it overly silly.
I present to you The Orcs of Thar and The Kingdom of Ierendi. Those are probably a bit TOO silly for some people.

>>44873769
Mystara (or The Known World - I prefer that name, to be honest) was an emergent setting - rather than being designed like Greyhawk or The Forgotten Realms were, it just kind of grew out of taking a whole bunch of old non-AD&D adventures and declaring that they all took place in the same world.
And then later stapling Blackmoor onto it, for legal reasons.

And then came the Gazetteers, where they decided that they should probably flesh out the setting more and a bunch of regional guides of varying quality and introduced metaplot and all kinds of bullshit, but that's alright because some of that bullshit was the fun kind where the kingdom of wizards get their power from a nuclear reactor and the planet was hollow with sci-fi elves and flying ships made out of sunlight.

Like >>44873799 said, though, Greyhawk is probably more gonzo due to all the actual play that shaped the setting. Murlynd going to Boot Hill and bringing back some six-shooters, for instance, or the time Greyhawk Castle sent a party to the Starship Warden, or the Expeditions to the Barrier Peaks (itself yet another Metamorphosis Alpha crossover).
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>>44873875
>Greyhawk Castle sent a party to the Starship Warden
That is Expedition to the Barrier peaks, isn't it?

Don't forget WG7 ('Castle Greyhawk', which I run as having been named that for tourism reasons), EX1/2 (Alice in Wonderland 1 & 2), and Isle of the Ape (King Kong).
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>>44873875
I really liked the Mystara reference in Ravenloft that was Meredoth, Darklord of the Nocturnal Sea.
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>>44873875
Well I mean, to be the devil's advocate, Orcs of Thar is rich in humor, but its undeniably dark in both the usual agenda of the characters (there's zero assumption of playing "good orcs" or whatever, or peaceful coexistence with humans -- you're probably going to be raiding villages at some point) and the origin (orcs, trolls, etc. were entirely created to suffer and be miserable and the Broken Lands are essentially Hell on Earth). Then of course there's how the Shadow Elves dump their retard babies on the laps of the orcs and orcs becoming Orc Hitler after finding out they're tainted with Shadow Elf blood, etc.

So its got a lot of humor, but is also decently horrific. Its got great pacing.

>Kingdom of Ierendi

What's that about?
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>>44873936
No, it's Gygax's players getting a cursed scroll of interplanetary teleport, Gygax jokingly saying that if he rolls 100 they'll go to Jim's spaceship, Gygax rolling a 100, and Jim Ward running a session some time later where a group of confused adventurers adventure through the terrors of Metamorphosis Alpha.

He retold it in a Dragon Magazine, don't remember which. It was fairly entertaining.

>>44873949
>>Kingdom of Ierendi
>What's that about?
It's a tour guide to the island kingdoms of Ierendi, which are basically a caribbean tourist paradise.

This post might be informative:
>http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?724379-Let-s-Read-The-Known-World-Mystara-ALL-of-it-from-the-beginning&p=18055609#post18055609
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>>44873294
I would actually make it /less/ condensed. Space it out a bit and make it less dense and it's easier to digest.
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So what all monster classes exist in BECMI? There's the lycanthropes in Night Howlers, the humanoids in Orcs of Thar... are there any else? An undead one maybe?
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>>44873793
>>44873799
The Cult of the Frog is pretty much a callback/rewrite of an Arneson original scenario, and the first one published by TSR: Temple of the Frog, in Supplement II: Blackmoor. (The original is a site based adventure in Loch Gloomen which I think he actually ran for his players. I believe it was tied into Richard Snider's Trek-oid space campaign, Barrier Peaks style.)
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>>44874228
>http://www.pandius.com/becmicls.html

The various PC supplements are what you're looking for - PC1 Tall Tales of the Wee Folk, PC2 Top Ballista, PC3 The Sea Peoples. Night Howlers is kind of prestige class-ish, I guess.

Orcs of Thar also has a custom monster class creation kit.
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>>44874228
Pixies and shit in The Wee Folk.
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>>44874228
I've got this race database spreadsheet: http://www.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1453210728

There's woodland fey in PC1, flying creatures in PC2, and underwater creatures in PC3.
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Hey OSRG, I have a question that you guys might be able to unearth, as I'm having no luck on the matter.

I'm currently running a Yoon Suin campaign, and I can't seem to find any references as to how big the hexes in the maps are supposed to be. This matters to me primarily to get accurate overland travel rates down.

If its not actually written down anywhere, what size map hexes do you guys use in your campaigns? 1 mile? 6 mile? 24 mile?
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>>44874504
Yeah, that's it. It's worth a read - I'd recommend it.
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>>44874115
>He retold it in a Dragon Magazine, don't remember which. It was fairly entertaining.
It could be "Faceless men & clockwork monsters" from The Dragon Issue 17 - Althought apparently Dragon Issue 18 also has crossover rules for transporting D&D characters to metamorphosis alpha and vice versa.
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>>44874285
>>44874288
Wooo, exciting stuff to be found. The dragon master and necromancer stuff is about as close as I wanted to dragony and undeady PCs.

Also, The Radiance is fucking cool and the direct side effects of using it remind me of two recent magical girl animus.
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>>44874285
>>44874316
>all the PC books say 'can be used with AD&D'
>only PC3 and PC4 have ability score adjustments for their new races
Should I just make some up? The Shadow Elves got some in a digital file, and I'm using those for the Hollow World Schattenalfen as well.
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>>44874402
I think you can assume that it's the standard six-mile hex from the scale of the maps. Plus, it's a good hex size for convenient travel since overland movement rates are all divisible by six.

The one exception might be the "Yellow City and Environs" map, where six mile hexes would imply that the city extends over perhaps as much as 124 square miles. Depending on how high-fantasy your game is, that's either fine or completely bughouse bonkers.
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>>44874587
>Should I just make some up?
Either that, or assume they don't actually grant modifiers? I don't know offhand how crazy results that gives. I think probably they just intended you to still use the races-as-class in AD&D as they were; there's not a huge amount of sense to a pixie fighter/mage/cleric or whatever the fuck.
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>>44872704
You underestimate the ability of people to masturbate to off the wall shit
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>>44874651
Some of them have quite large modifiers to the minima and maxima for their attributes, which generally goes hand in hand with attribute modifiers in AD&D.
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>>44874684
There are plenty of racial minima and maxima in AD&D that don't come with ability mods.
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>>44874727
You're right, I'd got myself confused.
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Hm, the dwarf clerics are a neat counterpart to the default elf mages, and its likewise nifty to see the druid and healing spells added to the elf list, for an idea of how a 1-9, full progression elf would differ from a full progression magic user.

Makes me wonder about a setting in which not just elfs, but derfs (clerics) and orcs/ogres/etc. (wiccans/wokans/witch doctors) were the norm, all the major nonhuman races having basic levels of magic abilities, unlike peoples.
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>>44874629
I don't know shit about Yoon-Suin, but 124 square miles would put it as the second largest historical city in the first millennium AD. It's not even half as big as Angkor, but then again Angkor was huge.
Also, of course, it'd be more than twice as large as Tikal.

I have no idea what a good comparison is for a more relevant time period, partly on account of knowing shit about Yoon-Suin and partly on account of Google being really unhelpful about the geographic areas of historical cities.
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>>44876830
>124 square miles would put it as the second largest historical city in the first millennium AD. It's not even half as big as Angkor, but then again Angkor was huge.
>Also, of course, it'd be more than twice as large as Tikal.
Are you sure about these figures? When London finally surpassed Rome as the largest-ever city by population, in the 17th century, it was still only the part called "the Square Mile".

If you're right, though, and Angkor was one continuous conurbation extending over 250+ square miles, I take back my comment. I'd say Angkor is pretty clearly one of the big inspirations for the Yellow City in Yoon-Suin.
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>>44876830

he's not wrong. Angkor was fucking huge, geographically speaking, but not especially densely populated.
SOURCE:http://www.pnas.org/content/104/36/14277
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>>44872574

Natural AC in LotFP generally tops out at plate mail levels, so 18. Everyone can hit that with a roll of 17+, 18+ if they have a shield too. The Referee book recommends increasing HP rather than AC for bigger bads.
Generally anything with a higher AC would have to be some supernatural bullshit that only the Fighter could still hit because fuck your magic.
>>
The thing to remember about London is that it's got crazy-huge population density.

In 1801 - two centuries late, I know - the inner bits had a population density of eight thousand people (per square mile, I'd assume).
The 1650 population would be a little less than half that, I'd reckon. So three-four thousand people per square mile.

Some quick and loose math based on a few minutes of Wikipedia (Angkor had 0,1% of global population in 1000AD, high estimate of 310M globally, roughly 390 square miles) gives a population density of eight HUNDRED people per square mile.
Basically, it had a third of Rome's population and a tenth of 19th century London's density with an area the size of Berlin.
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>>44877454
>The thing to remember about London is that it's got crazy-huge population density.
Agreed, but...
>>44877454
>So three-four thousand people per square mile.
Again, the City of London is called *the* Square Mile. When London surpassed Imperial Rome as the largest-ever city, that per definition means it had more than *one million* inhabitants. On that square mile. Mind, it's almost deserted of people now (it's all banks) but the City still contains like 7k residents, as well as a number of hotels and so on.
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>>44877586
>Again, the City of London is called *the* Square Mile. When London surpassed Imperial Rome as the largest-ever city, that per definition means it had more than *one million* inhabitants. On that square mile. Mind, it's almost deserted of people now (it's all banks) but the City still contains like 7k residents, as well as a number of hotels and so on.
It also has a quarter million commuting in.
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>>44877981
True.
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