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Horus Heresy/30k general
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I am Alpharius edition.

>HHG FAQ - http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8

>Official HH 7th Edition Errata (Updated January 2016) - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/fw_site/fw_pdfs/Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_7th_Edition.pdf

>HHG RULES
>- https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS
>- http://www.mediafire.com/download/deadtdf0y47k59k/The+Horus+Heresy+Legiones+Astartes+Isstvan+Campaign.pdf
>- https://kat.cr/usearch/%22Forge%20World%22%20heresy%20user:epistolary/

>Xenos in 30K Homebrew - https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Xenos_in_30k

>HH Black Library
>- https://mega.nz/#F!0RlxDZQC!qAu9BaubWa3KeihJRmOcsg
>>
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I'm on my phone and away from my book. Were there any ultramarines that weren't at the calth muster? Also, were any loyal to Horus?
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>>44864135
Well, their primarch was kind of an asshole.
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>>44864176
How so? He wasn't as bad as pert, or angron. He seemed to genuinely care about his marines.

On a side note, did any ultramarines go traitor when roboute created imperium secundus?
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>>44864135
>Were there any ultramarines that weren't at the calth muster?
Yeah, 5 or so Chapters.
They were called the unmarked and shunned by their fellow legionnaires and even by Guilliman himself
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>>44864607
Why
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>>44857519
Already a thread.
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>>44864730
Imagine you and say 10 of your friends get captured by some rabid cult and tortured and almost killed before escaping,
Then, after the cultists are arrested, 5 other friends come and want to hang out with you/
Who do you think you'll be closer to, the guys you got tortured with or the guys who didn't suffer with you?
>>44864758
Can't you read?
>>
>>44864771
Stupid similar thumbnails. No, I can't. Disregard me, cocks, etc.
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>>44864730
Gillian thought them a memory of a grander more innocent time and didn't want the feels from that so kept himself distant plus the torture thing that >>44864771 said
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>>44864135
Yes, and yes. There were approximately 200,000 Ultramarines (185,923 to be exact) out of the approximate 250,000 within the legion. In addition, every legion had some marines turn, some who stayed loyal, and some who went off and did their own thing. No exceptions. The difference is just the proportion of each.
>>
>>44864758
Did you not see the different general picture? Or how it said Horus Heresy General?
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>>44864867
Hmm, as fanboyish as this sounds I doubt that any Ultramarines turned at all, seeing how dogmatic they were in their faith in their Primarch
>>
>>44864607
>They were called the unmarked and shunned by their fellow legionnaires and even by Guilliman himself
Rowboat what the heck man?
>>
>>44864901
>as fanboyish as this sounds
yes, yes it does
>>
>>44864901
It is fanboyish but if you're coming from the 40k representation of Ultramarines then that's to be expected. It's important to note that the Ultramarines of 30k are very much not the Ultramarines of 40k. There is significantly less indoctrination and dogmatic approach to things. There is infinitely more variability in both the quality of marines, both physically and mentally. Not to mention all of the marines who were brought in, assigned to some back-end expedition fleet alongside some Sons of Horus, and then never saw another Ultramarine contingent again. It's far less reasonable to say that out of 250,000 individuals, the vast majority of whom would've never even seen their primarch, would all choose to side with him. If I were to say that 0.1% of Ultramarines chose to not side with Guilliman (which is not the same as siding with Horus), does that seem unreasonable? If not, then that's already more than enough marines for a whole army.
>>
>>44865001
Did you even read the remainder of the sentence?
I'm saying that they were so dogmatic (not a good trait BTW) and almost heretically loyal to Guilliman and his ideals that they abandoned the Throneworld and began building up Imperium Secundus the moment all contact was cut off, but whatever, have to stick to that 2010 circlejerk I guess
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>>44864901
The Emperors Children fell and their primarch was obsessed with the legion being as perfect as the Emperor.
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>>44865050
You seem to be forgetting about the existence of the Ruinstorm, which the legion was seeing and hearing about first and second hand from the waves of refugees that were pouring into Macragge.
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Does this sound ok as a taster background for my marines
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>>44865259
Absolutely. And that icon is awesome.
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>>44865259
Technically, pre-Heresy the Imperial Fists had regiments, not chapters. They also used the battalion unit as well.
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>>44865259
Pretty great?
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>>44865259
Could need a bit more immersion in the description. Otherwise I think it sounds good.
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>>44866456
>those skinny arms
BRAVO ROBERTS
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>>44866512
What do you expect? Magnus is a nerd who only lift books.
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>>44866531
I always found that piece of art weird because of Magnus's arms. Like why are they so flimsy/disproportionate?
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Is there any mention of Aerion Mersaror beyond the book Macragge's Honour?
He's pretty cool looking, even if he is an Ultra.
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>>44866531
>>44867082
It's just a psychic manifestation of Magnus. The arms are like due to not being completely formed. A better question is why does Magnus have nipple horns.
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>>44867088
I really dig the Ultramarine aesthetic in 30k, makes me want to play them instead of IF (almost).
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>>44867114
Why don't you ask Blanche.
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>>44867177
did not realize how big that was.
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>>44867177
Those horns aren't as big in other pictures I've seen, and does that book have a face on it?
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>>44867177
>those arms
>them calfs
Someone skipped leg day
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>>44867213
Well it definitely has a chaos star on it. Is this supposed to be magnus pre heresy? Because if so, that's pretty damning
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>>44867242
The 1K son symbol did look like one too. That Magnus is holding a bolter in his hands so maybe it is pre-Heresy Magnus. As for the star of Chaos, he probably didn't know what the true meaning of it was.
>>
What are we expecting to see from the Forge World open day in a couple weeks?
Is it Dangels, Bangels, White Scars, and whomever else I've forgotten that won't be at Prospero?
Where are my 1K Sons forgeworld?

Also, how viable is footslogging massive tac marine squads in 30k? Spartans are expensive and if I get one I'll give it to my primarch and bodyguard but I can't see myself getting multiples.
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>>44869834
>What are we expecting to see from the Forge World open day in a couple weeks?

Book 6 which as far as we know will have

>RoWs for everyone
>WS/DA/BA rules and RoWs
>Knight Errant rules
>Shattered Legion/Blackshield army list
>Mastodon

Book 7 should be prospero

>how viable is footslogging massive tac marine squads in 30k?

I guess it depends on the legion and how big the game is but in my opinion if your going with tac marines then go big or go home.
>>
Asked in the normal general, told to come here:

Why have the HH novel releases slowed to a crawl? Is it because ADB is taking forever and it's causing a logjam?

What gives?
>>
>>44869928
My legion is Emperor's Children. I'm struggling to find their niche.
I just don't know how to field them efficiently. All tactics seem viable but I feel I don't do any particularly well. Drop assault? That's Raven Guard or Night Lords. Mass Hordes? World Eaters. Gunline? Fists or Iron Warriors.
They seem to be Jack of all Trades, masters of None. They're kitted to be a great melee army (all that AP2 at initiative + combat res boosts) and a bit fast on their feet with Crusader so I was thinking hordes of Tac Marines backed by other melee-centric HQs and elites.
>>
sup /tg/, I"m wondering if after my next wave of purchases, my RG collection will be finished, or if there is something else I will need.

I already own
40 tacticals
1 chaplain
1 praevian/techmarine
1 Praetor
3 rapier laser destroyers.
2 apothecaries
10 mor deythan
1 rhino
1 fire raptor.

I'm getting
10 dark furies
Corax
5 terminators
1 contemptor
assorted pods
10 seekers (will make into 9 seekers+apothecary)

Kades Nex (when he gets released)

Is there anything else that my list/collection really needs? Or can I get to mass-painting?
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>>44870001
You do know GW wants to milk this forever right?
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>>44864204
Well he was secretly a traitor primarch. Just got away with it under "We have to cut our losses and found a second imperium"

>>44870050
Thats a pretty solid list. Pretty close to my own RG collection. I would add a lighting(Dark Talons make great RG-looking alternatives) to KO some of the bigger things like typhons, spartans, etc. Castellax for that Praevian. A Darkwing for the termis.
>>
Do you think it'd be worth it to wait around for February before gluing together all my BaC boys in case a fancy new RoW comes out for Imperial Fists? Also I'm keeping an open mind for Dark Angels because they were my first 40k army over 13 years ago. I've got a soft spot for those secretive robewearing space catholics.
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>>44870111

There's forever and there's losing interest because they don't release jack shit.
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>>44870570
As long as it's profitable. When people stop buying the books they'll skip to the Siege of Terra.
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>>44870596

It's not profitable when they don't release books for me to buy.
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>>44870728
Give them time, they've ran out of of ideas. Rushing them will cause a novel filled with Horus brushing his teeth.
>>
So if we are only getting Legion rules and some ROW for WS/DA/BA in the next book.

When are supposed to get special characters, Primarch and units for these armies? 2020?
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>>44870808
>2020
Try 2030.
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>>44867114
Because Chaos?
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>>44867177
I really gotta say that I hate Blanche's proportions on a lot of his more recent art.
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>>44867242
Yeah it's weird that the great crusade encountered lots of chaos civilisations before the heresy and never encountered the 8 star since it's only during the heresy it's used
>>
Is it important to put power weapons/power fists on all Imperial Fists sergeants (including Tacticals) since all character have to do challenges?
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>>44870001
Because selling 10 shorts at 2 quid each after selling 5 of them for 50 as a limited edition novella and then reselling them at xmass advent and then again as special marines battles thing and then finally 2 years after first release selling as limited edition anthology and the year after as a hardback makes more money per word
And that's not counting how they have pre released certain short stories in foreign languages years b4 the English ones - eg gates of terra was released in German 3 years before its English release
What's rally dumb is how certain parts were speeded up even then
So we go from rebel bitter but some sympathy Horus but then with all the chaos shit he tolerates we have to explain why he does
So he disappears into the warp and comes back as pretty much a daemon prince and now can be written as pure evil
Also the alpha legion somehow go to overt civil war offstage
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>>44872681
So basically; GW sucks at planning.
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>Make a Pre-Heresy Night Lords army when the older armour sets first come out in resin using Blood Angel rules
>Get super-excited when HH proper comes out, build an Iron Hands army over book 1 + 2 to complement my VIII
>Get hype for Thousand Sons, make 1500pts of them in preparation for Prospero
>Now working on a Dark Angels legion list for book 6
>Also have the start of a Word Bearers force
>Oh, but now I have more traitors than loyalists, I'll do White Scars too just to even it out
>Hmm, but I've always liked Alpha Legion...
>And Salamanders are pretty cool as well...
>Plus I have this 40k AdMech army that I could convert to 30k pretty easily...

H-help me bro's
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>>44873359
As long as everything's getting built and painted, there's no problem.
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>>44870001
Well, it's mostly because it prints them money.
But I do think they're eventually going to get there, Pharos' afterword said that the second act of the Heresy was over, and that the third and the final will be starting in 2016, with Horus being mere systems from Terra
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>>44873657
Then you get the 4th with fighting on Terra. And a 5th with the siege of the Imperial Palace. And so on and so on, until 30k gets stuck 2 minutes to midnight, teasing the fight between Emperor and Horus, but never really going there.
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>>44873674
Nah, they're Jews but they're not that Jewy.
I mean, I thought they were going down that route post vengeful Spirit because literally nothing happened for a year and a half, but Pharos actually advanced the story
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>>44873686
Don't you worry, if it seems like shit's about to end, GW will step in and make demands.
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>>44873709
GW has no need to worry about that though, even if they reach the end with the Emperor and Horus fighting and dying, they can still print tons of short stories and shit like that that happened inbetween, which I remember correctly nets them more cash on the regular than novel releases.
And let's not forget the cash cow of the Great Scouring and the Great Reforging
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>>44872789
More like BL have targets for how much they have to make and these get raised all the time - so to keep their jobs they try to screw as much as possible
Also with publishing they are risk averse so they will try out stories as ebooks with less cost and if they don't sell much of that story they won't put it out as a physical copy until they have no other choice
>>
Who the fuck thought Garro's Oath of Moment giving your opponent a 3/5 chance of winning no matter what if Garro dies...
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>>44873359
OJ go to school
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>>44870040

> All tactics seem viable but I feel I don't do any particularly well.

That's exactly the first thing you need to accept, because it's exactly what you'll get from the EC. Some Legions get a clear push towards a particular playstyle, or even get such a powerful LA that they can rely on it as a major part of their strength. Others get a middling LA rule but get sufficient power from the Rites, units and characters that they favour more niche builds. The EC are in this second category, albeit they are still considered one of the weakest Legions.

Your LA rule is essentially irrelevant. It's impossible to base tactics around, and not particularly strong even when it does trigger. That said, it's precisely *because* it's so weak that you can generally play anything and not feel hard done by. For example, World Eaters have a better LA but are also absolutely slaved to a CC army build for it to be relevant, while Ultramarines are slaved to a shooting build based on special weapons to gain any benefit over Fists. You are so generic that you can play anything you like. That might be a positive, maybe.
Because your LA rule is so crap, there are only a handful of reasons to play EC over their competition. If you are not relying on your few strengths, then any other Legion would fill the gap while simultaneously offering a better LA. Those perks are:
- Eidolon
- Palatine Blades
- Maru Skara
- Fulgrim
- The right to paint your dudes in metallic magenta and white.

Eidolon is fantastic and arguably the best reason to play EC right now. His profile and rules really speak for themselves, plus he also brings Master of the Legion. I'd say he should be your first HQ pick every time, regardless of the army size.
Palatines are not fantastic, but they are good enough to work while being EC-exclusive. When equipped with Jump Packs, they make a very sound escort for Eidolon while benefiting from his Artificer tanking.

tl;dr- Take Eidolon and Palatine guard. Then your tastes.
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>>44874371

> Take Garro
> Take Delegatus
> Run 'Chosen Duty' Rite
> Run 'Protector' for Garro
> Hide Delegatus in Reserves and then in a nice corner somewhere, run Garro as beatstick-Praetor
> Get 3 free Victory Points
>>
Reminder that IW and Pert would've remained loyal had they received some love and recognition
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Are there any non-terminator units that can use combi-weapons other than seekers?
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>>44874639
I thought all of the primarchs would have remained loyal had they received some love and recognition from daddy.
>>
I feel like i'm assembling my BAC marines wrong. I almost royally fucked up the dreadnought by somehow skipping attaching the arm sockets to the body before gluing on the front, luckily i acted quickly enough and could salvage it before the glue dried.

That said there's a pretty big gap between my sergeant and the loin cloth I attached to his belt. From what I can tell you're supposed to attach the two belt ends on either side of the pelvis connected to the belt on the mini. However that leaves a pretty big gap between the power armor and the cloth itself. Anyone got any advice?
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>>44874549
Thanks!
Yeah, the EC have been my favourite Traitor Legion for over 10 years so decided to give them a go. Their lore, characters, and colour scheme have always appealed to me.
I love the models for Eidolon and the Palatine Blades so I was thinking all of them with Jump Packs and Spears as a deathstar unit is the best idea. I'll throw in Fulgrim in bigger games, and then season to taste.
I'm hoping the Kakophonie rumours are true, I'd love for them to be the bulk of my forces (even if they aren't particularly great)
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>>44874855
You should have read the assembly instructions that came with BAC.
Exacto knife and then re-glue it?
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>>44874549

> (cont)

Phoenix Terminators have had an awful reputation for a very long time. The new FAQ has made them a whole lot better, to the point that a Spartan-carried Deathstar might be viable. Certainly instant death to any single enemy unit at I6. The idea is to unload a shitstorm of AP2, tank the survivors and then Sweep. Still extremely expensive however and not really any better than Palatines in the same role.

The Skara isn't a fantastic Rite, but if you're already running Eidolon then you're halfway in. Outflanking is always useful and I think you can claim it on Apothecaries to get a far larger Outflanking contingent than the rules would allow normally.

Fulgrim is great. Besides being a brutal melee fighter (ALWAYS FIREBLADE), he combines the Paladin trait with Rylanor to gain a staggering +4 Resolution to all friendly units. At this point you can actually see an EC playstyle- Get into melee, tank to a draw, then Resolution overload and Sweep.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297556-emperors-children-tactica/
is a good tool for now. The weekender is coming up soon and should spoil some details for the Book 6 rewrites, of which Emperors Children are going to be high in the list.
So expect significant buffs to be coming shortly.
>>
>>44865259
WITNESSED
>>
>>44870001
Because Abnett and McNeil have been busy with non-BL work, ADB is writing the second Black Legion book, and the rest of the authors have been working on The Beast Arises series (which is quite good).
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>>44874910
I am reading the instructions for sure, just I'm not really sure why I skipped the step though on the dreadnought.

I think I was following the loincloth instructions just as shown, though, but maybe they only fit on specific torsos? I need to see a close up of a painted bac loincloth marine to see for myself.
>>
>>44874669
Mor Deyrhan can.
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>>44874669
RG Mor Deythan, AL Headhunters (only combi-bolters) can as well. Can't veteran tactical squads take some too?
>>
Is Exodus generally worth it?
>>
>>44874975
sort of, but less barbarian and more organized and the planet isn't dead/dying

I wanted to convert up a war rig from a battlewagon but can't think of anything to use it as and I don't have the money/space for useless conversons
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>>44874697
Nah, Horus and Fulgrim were spoilt rotten but still turned
>>
Blue or green plasma for EC?
>>
as much as I want Lernaens, I'm not sure I need 20 terminators after assembling my Calth ones. I wish the plastic ones had non power fist/claw melee hands, that'd be a breeze to convert
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>>44876124
Light blue against purple is nice
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>>44876021
Both of them needed direct contact with a tainted artefact for it to happen though, and in Horus's case a big ritual as well.
Fulgrim was losing his grip a little, but the blade was what fucked him over completely
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>>44876228
But a tainted artifact only loosens their inhibitions, doesn't make them evil.
They already had these dark thoughts in their hearts, and Chaos only magnified them, it didn't create them
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>>44876021
Too rotten, though. Both had direct chaos-shenigans going on as well.
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>>44872608
Yes.
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How do you make "Your Dudes" in 30k without it coming across as mary sue-ish for named characters to drop-in?
I.e. Do you just make your Praetor a Captain of a legion above the 20th (so as not to contradict with too much lore) and have higher ranking officials taking over their Chapters/Regiments/whatevers for a mission?
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>>44877719
Well the Horus Heresy was a galactic civil war, so unless you have your character singlehandedly turning back the tide of Isstvan III or something it wouldn't be that bad
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I got about 200pts. to spend on artillery for Militia. Should I take 3 quad mortars (180pts.), 2 earthshakers (150pts.) or 2 medusas (200pts.)?

Would love medusas, but 36" range seems a bit shit. Siege shells do extend it and give armourbane, but no barrage. Earthshaker has range and barrage, but only AP3. Quad mortar gives tons of hits, but no anti-tank capacity.
>>
>>44877719
Depends what you mean - the legions were big enough that they all pretty much encompass the full spectrum of modes of warfare, and there were many detached units and minor expeditionary fleets that were off on their own and used their own heraldry extensively.

Going further into special snowflakeness (but still accounted for in the rules and lore) there are also the lost legions, and rumours of projects that never got above a few hundred marines (mentioned in the alpha legion text, there was an incident involving recruiting from corrupted/mutant stock)
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>>44877719
Depends on what FW does with SW once their book(s) come out. I was gonna make mine as like late Roman legionaries. Barbarians in the service of Rome, securing the outskirts of the empire against enemies of the state. Painted in old GW artwork colours of dark grey, red and black. I want them to be as little wolfy-wolf-wolf and as much dark Ultras. All that grand Roman style in their armour with laurels, crests and shit, but in dark, imposing colours with crimson cloaks with fur and nasty axes and war hammers.

They're not the shining legionaries that stand next to the emperor in Rome, they're the grizzled vets that stand guard at the wall, recruited from local population and guard the empire against the barbarians.
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>>44877719
play named characters as totally-not-this-dude

Chronus and pask aren't the only Tank aces in the galaxy
Sisigmund isn't the only master swordsman
Pollux isn't the only dude with powerfist/storm shield
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>>44877800
depends on what you need in your army. If you have anti-horde coming out your arse then don't get quad mortars, if you need more anti-tank then get medusas etc.
>>
So I was reading some fluff in the books, in... Tempest I think, or Conquest, where it explains you can pretty much play a Legion on any side due to the chaos and mass betrayal. It gives examples of Traitor Space Wolves, and Loyalist Death Guard and Night Lords.

So I have to be asking, what would loyalist Night Lords even look like or how would they operate?
>>
>>44877800
what kind of militia army you run? If you run blob it may be sufficient to tarpit or drown TEQ's in saves and allow the Earthshakers to break armor and power armor.
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>>44878660
Maybe something like antiheroes or a necessary evil that don't care about civilian casualties as long as the traitors as dead
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>>44878660

More reasonable night lords that are closer to judge dredd in outlook than murderous batman
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>>44878660
Like Raven guard on crack
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>>44878660
It was in Conquest, and yes it pretty much tries to get across that you can play any legion on any side (or neither side) and still have it fit the lore.

For Night Lords, there were still Terran Night Lords within the legion, who approached their duties with a much stronger sense of justice, rather than just for the thrill of the kill. One particular individual was Fel Zharost, the Chief Librarian of the Night Lords, who basically got told by Sevetar to just leave the legion. Not because the legion was following the Edict of Nikea, but simply because Sevetar didn't want to deal with psykers.
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>reading Tempest
>Ultramarine chapters have 10,000 men each
So is it ever explained how chapter went from a formation of 10,000 Space Marines to a formation of 1000?
>>
>>44877943
Fuck, that's actually really cool, I might have to steal that from you anon.
>>
>>44878798
Yes. It's called scaling down.
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>>44878798
Well there was an actual 1000 man unit - wasn't it a company?
Companies were commanded by line captains sort of like 1 star generals or colonels
That's the annoying thing about the novels vs forgeworld - novels use captain for lots of different ranks
>>
So is there a full list anywhere of suspected Chapters in 40k with Traitorous backgrounds? Apart from the Grey Knights, of course. I like the idea of guys getting the short end of the stick with their Primarchs being traitors and having to figure things out the best they can. Lots of these were folded into the Ultras, right?

What I remember is...
Blood Ravens - Thousand Sons, pretty much certain.

Silver Skulls - Iron Warriors - Suspected.

Minotaurs - ??? - ???

Also, as a side note of history tracing, it mentioned that one of the populations the Ultramarines drew from was from the Caucasus anthropophages - does this mean there was a Mortifactor Chapter back then? I only recall very clear Aurora and Nemesis chapters from the books.
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>>44878955
Yeah I've noticed that, in the books captain means commander of a 100 men
>>
>>44879024
I suppose the Minotaurs could be headcannoned into becoming World Eater loyalists or something.
Red Scorpions are either EC or WB, all but confirmed by a tongue-in-cheek answer by a Forgeworld employee asked about it
>>
>>44879024

Storm Wardens are hinted to be either World Eaters or War Hounds.
>>
>>44879024

My suspicion is that the Hawk Lords are EC, explaining why they are good at aerial stuff, their colours and why there's confusion over their primarch.
>>
Any sons of the sanguinius in here?
Any hopes for the upcoming rules?
>>
>>44877719
Personally I always go for my own characters - It is just funnier to create a story around them than just use dudes whose story is mapped out for next 10 000 years.

>>44877781
If that would be Campaing and it would result to that then YES I would just surrender my Character to non-canon but coolness
>>
>>44879071
Minotaurs were confirmed Iron Warriors geneseed by their creator (though they are not 2nd founding). And do you have a source for the Red Scorpions one? I'll post the Minotaurs one when I get home.

>>44879073
Nothing of the sort. Only evidence points to either Ultramarines or White Scars.

>>44879091
They've almost been listed by name as having been the 21st Chapter of the Ultramarines legion.
>>
>>44878955
>novels use captain for lots of different ranks
So do a lot of the legions - the Death Guard had it's 7 senior captains (1,2 and 7 with special titles) commanding their Great Companies, forces even greater than 10000

Ranks were not standardised, and some legions loved stratification while others only had small companies and anything larger was ad-hoc - though many also had specialist formations that stayed together, though they might not deploy in full.
It just depends on the legion
>>
>>44879149

Ah, my error. Do you know all the Ultramarine chapters that are clear 2nd founding? That'd be neat to look over for army ideas. It's Aurora and Nemesis so far, right, with some hints of Mortifactors like that anon mentioned above and Hawk Lords?
>>
>>44879189
I've got some of them. The 21st chapter were known as the 'Hawks' and were parceled out to the rest of the legion as pilots. There may have also been an original Scythes of the Emperor and Fire Angels chapters that were since destroyed, and then re-founded at a later founding.
>>
>>44879179
In addition, some of the ranks are pre-primarch and simply stuck around during the legion organizational change.
>>
>>44879189
Mortifactors, Novamarines, Genesis, Black Consuls, White Consuls, Libators, Inceptors, the list goes on and on. Even if the Ultramarine legion never recovered to their full strength after Calth, they would've still had 100+ 2nd founding chapters.
>>
>>44879149
The Minotaurs were also re-formed at one point - from Red-Yellow-Berserker Marines from the 21st (cursed) Founding who may or may not have been made from WE Gene Seed, who all... something, the name was reused for the founding of the High Lords' personal chapter.

>>44879024
Sons of Sons of Antaeus (also 21st Founding) seem likely to be from Death Guard gene seed, given that they're all immensely tough and huge
>>
>>44879274
One in-universe source said it was 23 chapters

Lexicanum lists the known Ultramarine 2nd Founding chapters as:
Aurora Chapter, Black Consuls, Doom Eagles, Eagle Warriors, Genesis Chapter, Inceptors, Iron Snakes, Libators, Mortifactors. Nemesis. Novamarines, Patriarchs of Ulixis, Praetors of Orpheus, Silver Eagles, Silver Skulls, White Consuls
>>
>>44878560
>>44878688
Anti-tank is one thing I'm missing.

I got 2 infantry squads in autocannon gorgons, 2 grenadier squads with meltas running alongside them, autocannon HW squad and a levy squad just for bodies. Elites is just medics for the squads and a techpriest auxilia with volkites and plasma fusil servitors. Heavy so far is 2 malcadors with battle cannons, lascannon sponsons, hull demolisher, siege armour and flare shields. Third slot is where I plan to put the cannons. HQ is just a commander (elite warriors and merchant princeling), command squad to protect the commander in some corner and discipline masters for squads. Oh, and an aegis line to provide some cover.

I feel like anti-tank is my main problem. I can pour out some decent amounts of S7 fire and some S9 and 10 shots from the malcadors, but against some pimped out Spartan and super-heavies, I don't feel like I'm so well off. If militia had lightnings, I would take one in an instant, but no such luck.
>>
>>44879478
That's fine, if the legions were still only 10,000 a piece. It would be highly unlikely for the Ultramarines to suffer 90+% casualties before the end of the Heresy.
>>
>>44879569
Firstly, that is an in-universe source, so it not being accurate is par for the course.

Not really, that is a massive negative if it's literally 1000 marines... which almost no chapter is, as they have all the command staff, the chaplains, librarium and so on.

Add to that, I can't see Guilliman, of all people, splitting off all but 1000 of his dudes at all, never mind straight away - he still had to keep the Imperium from collapsing (his greatest achievement), and the Ultras were the leading force in the Scouring

Add that to the huge casualties at Calth and afterwards, it seems reasonable
>>
>>44879119
SANGUINIUS
Master of the Blood Angels, The Angel, Best Primarch
500 pts
Ws 8 Bs 6 S 6 T 6 W 6 I 8 A 6 Ld 10 Sv 2+

Jump Infantry (Character)

1 (Unique)

Wargear:
The Blade Encarmine: S +1 Ap 2 Instant Death Shred
The Mantle of the Blood Angel This armour provides Sanguinus with a 2+ Armour and a 3+ Invulnerable save, in addition Sanguinius gains the Relentless special rule
The Liquescimus Infurno:
12" S 4 Ap 3 Assault 3
12" S 8 Ap 1 Heavy 1 Melta

Special Rules:
Primarch
The Gift of Baal: Sanguinius May use His jump pack in the Movement phase and the Assault Phase
Furious Charge
Sire of the Blood Angels:
>>
>>44879024
Death Eagles are loyalist Emperor's Children.
>>
>>44879763
The extras only add up to around an extra 100 per chapter. That's still around 90% losses for 23 chapters.
>>
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>>44879814
>jump pack
Ya done goof'd
>>
>>44879814
>500 points for that piece of shit
also Sanguinius is going to have more that a jump pack that lets him move in the assault phase. Look at what they gave Corvax based upon very little fluff and a couple of pictures and with Mortaion they turned his throwaway line of 'a bit under the radar' as the ability to teleport. Jump infantry isn't at all going to cover it. Any kind of special ability/ that the primarchs are described as having are being taken up to 11.
>>
Sup tg, who's going to the heresy weekender?
>>
>>44879763
Post Calth, the Ultramarines are down to 102,000 marines. Assuming a net 30% losses over the next 10 years until the second founding, that's still enough marines for 65 second founding chapters, at 1100 marines each.
>>
>>44880075
Huh, didn't know how many was after Calth, was looking for a value for that.

Seems like they might have split off between a quarter to half the Legion into chapters, while the rest prosecuted the Scouring, or alternately that that account has an incomplete list of their chapters

I do agree that 23 seems a bit low though - either Guilliman lost a lot of marines at some point or he wasn't exactly quick in splitting his legion.
Or the records just suck
>>
>>44879814
>Jump Infantry

Awful

Give it this

>On The Wings of an Angel: Sanguinius moves as if he was a flying monstrous creature, if he joins a jump infantry unit then the unit may move like he does.

Then psyker ML2 and this power

>Precog Warrior: If Sanguinius is in a challenge then he may discharge all his warp charges to reduce the opponent's attack characteristic by one for every warp charge, to a minimum of 1.
>>
>>44879841

Shame there's nearly no fluff on them. Loyalist EC are the best loyalists.
>>
how many people here own/play against people who own Dreadclaw conversions made from a plastic Drop Pod? I really love the Forgeworld Dreadclaw model but I don't think the plastic conversion looks bad at all, I kinda like it. Just wanted opinions on whether people are generally okay with it/resent players for not buying the real thing.
>>
>>44880296
The exact values are as follows (Because Ultramarine accountants are the best in the galaxy)

185,923 Ultramarines mustered at Calth
119,422 confirmed Ultramarine casualties
28,392 wounded or otherwise combat-incapable
Out of an estimated 250,000 total marines, that leaves 102,186 combat-capable Ultramarines, with 4/5ths of Ultramar still capable of recruiting new marines.
>>
>>44880444
this is one of those questions that's best asked of the people you're potentially going to be playing.
Personally I wouldn't care as long as it's a resonably comparable size. But ymmv and some players are insistent that you only use offical models. There was one autist in my store who bitched at people using normal plastic rhinos and their variants. I used to use plastic Rhino chassis' with converted deimos style turret/sponsons just to rustle his jimmies.
>>
>>44880316
Anyone have a scan of the successor chapter booklet that came with 7th edition limited codex?
>>
>>44880504
Nice.
>>
>>44880675
Theres one on the BnC somewhere
>>
>>44880877
Yeah diffcgiult site to search :(
>>
>>44881160
Here you go.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309546-index-astartes-successor-chapters-gallery/
>>
>>44881262
Thanks
>>
>>44879997
>>44880016
>>44880302
Thanks for the critique gentlemen, I entirely forgot about psychic bullshit I thought that Lvl 2 was a bit strong for Sang
Actually now a looking at my post it looks like 4chan ate the end of it for it's own devious ends
>>
>>44880659
I'm building an Imperial Fists list and I'm not sure whether to use a Dreadclaw or a Land Raider to transport Sigismund and a squad of Templars. Eventually I'll have them in a Spartan, but for now all I can afford is one of those two until I get a better job.
>>
>>44881368
SANGUINIUS
Master of the Blood Angels, The Angel, Best Primarch
500 pts
Ws 8 Bs 6 S 6 T 6 W 6 I 8 A 6 Ld 10 Sv 2+

Jump Infantry (Character)

1 (Unique)

Wargear:
The Blade Encarmine: S +1 Ap 2 Instant Death Shred
The Mantle of the Blood Angel This armour provides Sanguinus with a 2+ Armour and a 3+ Invulnerable save, in addition Sanguinius gains the Relentless special rule
The Liquescimus Infurno:
12" S 4 Ap 3 Assault 3
12" S 8 Ap 1 Heavy 1 Melta

Special Rules:
Primarch
The Gift of Baal: Sanguinius May use His jump pack in the Movement phase and the Assault Phase
Furious Charge:
Sire of the Blood Angels: All models with the Legionne Astartes (Blood angels) special rule use Sanguinius' leadership instead of their own, in edition all models with the Legionne Astartes (Blood angels) special rule in Sanguinius' gain the Rage special rule, or, if they already had it the Stubborn special rule.
On The Wings of an Angel: Sanguinius moves, following the rules of a flying monstrous creature, if he joins a jump infantry unit then the unit and Sanguinius must move like a normal jump infantry unit, with the exception that they may use there jump packs in the movement and assault phase.
Psyker (Mastery Level 1): Sanguinius generates powers from the divination table but instead of generating the Prescience power through psychic focus he instead gains the Warrior Of Precognition power (though may still exchange for the divination primaris as normal)
Precog Warrior: If Sanguinius is in a challenge then he may discharge any or all warp charges (aside from those generated by other psykers) to reduce the opponent's to hit rolls characteristic by one for every warp charge, to a minimum of 1. (e.g. If Sanguinius applied three charges during his turn then his opponent attacked him in a challange that turn then he could reduce one roll to hit by three, three rolls to hit by one ect.)
>>
>>44881593

Storm eagle baby
>>
>>44879495
By the way, can you add a discipline master to an ordnance battery? Discipline master rule says it must be attached to a unit with Infantry unit type and the ordnance battery has both Artillery (for the carriage) and Infantry (for the crew).
>>
>>44881893
What about if he is killed?

Fluff wise if he falls the entire blood angels force would lose their collective shit. For instance the entire army would gain rage/other rules, but must disembark, can't man heavy weapons platforms, and must move to assault the closest unit regardless of type.
>>
>>44881593
Instead of converting a Dreadclaw from a normal pod have you thought of converting a Spartan from a Land Raider. They're not that different desu

>>44881893
>Best Primarch
Why would you do that dude? Just go on the internet and tell blatant lies like that?
>>
>>44874920
>sell kidney for Legion Mastodon when it comes out
>fill it up with Palatines

You know what to do from here.
>>
How are the Admech in 30k?
Overly powerful compared to Marines, underwhelming? Do they have a good counter to a primarch?
>>
>>44883746
At sub 1500 they're a little over powered. The most OP of their units, the Castellax, got nerfed in their redbook. At 2000+ they're not terribly hard to beat. They don't have a lot of 2+ armour other than their HQ units. Lots of high Toughness though. In terms of countering a Primarch, not really. They are a very shooty army though, so if you have enough weight of firing coming in at a Primarch, you may be able to kill it before it engages in assault.
>>
>>44883746
Also they're called the Mechanicum. Admech is only in 40k.
>>
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Playing as Death Guard, what is the best way to deal with an enemy spartan assault tank? I usually always take The Reaping as my RoT if that matters.
>>
>>44873674

I do remember something saying that they plan to do the scouring after the HH proper ends.
>>
>>44885275
Source? From what IIRC they said they might do the Scouring, and it might contain xenos, but nothing was certain (admittedly this was a couple of years ago)
>>
>>44884970
Chainfist termies? Those S8 AP1 armourbane missiles?
>>
>>44878660

There was a short story involving a loyalist NL who hooked up with the RG. Can't remember the name offhand but it was pretty cool. Also, Corax scared the shit outta him.
>>
>>44885650
The Value of Fear.
>>
>>44885421

Yeah it's been too long so I don't remember exactly, I'd file it under unconfirmed rumor.

Wouldn't surprise me if they did though, lots of stories they can tell about that period.
>>
>>44885650

Funnily enough it mentions in Tempest that the Night Lords fought with the 22nd Chapter of the Ultramarines on occasion, the Nemesis chapter, which used a lot of destroyers, the NL encouraging them to be a bit spookier. Might be fun to think some NL went back to them and got re-integrated
>>
>>44885650
There were rumors of NLs fighting in defaced heraldry against traitors.
>>
>>44884970
How's graviton stuff against armour, with their Haywire?
They do the terrain thing for DG
>>
>>44886459
>Changing your heraldry when you attack your traitorous legions allies
>LaughingLoyalistAlpahriuses.webm
>>
>>44888250
Night Lords have standards to madness check Bloody Bones.
>Alpahriuses
I believe the correct term is Alphari.
>>
Which Primarch model is next
Magnus? Russ?
>>
>>44889376
Considering they don't have rules and won't for some time I doubt it. A good bet is based on which prim arch with rules isn't out giving me hope Dorn is next.
>>
>>44889376
Alpharius or Dorn.
>>
>>44889376
Dorn or Alpharius
>>
>>44889376

Russ. They want him in time for the Prospero Book.
>>
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>>44889950
>mfw Dorn and Alphy get pushed back yet again to get Russ out before they even give him rules like Guilliman

Fucking shit, that would suck ass.
>>
>>44890038
fists like to suffer and alpha memes deserve to suffer

all is right in the world
>>
>>44879841

EC that survived and decided to get serious?

Damn, I'm really tempted to get into 30k to make a RG army and fluff it as this
>>
>>44890038

That's what Cottrel said at the GW Birthday Bash. They want Russ and Mangus both done in time for the Prospero Book. They'll be in a duel like Fulgrim/Ferrus.
>>
>>44890164
They are described as a millenium, so Im guessing they werent on Istvaan and the entire millenium was somewhere distant and when the Big Fag came to pick them they told him go fuck himself and then went on their own war against their brothers for the rest of the heresy.
>>
>>44890212

Where's this from? There seems to be no fluff on the Death Eagles that I can see aside from "RG but actually EC lol"
>>
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>>44890275
>Where's this from?

Book 4, Conquest. It refers them as the 34th Millenial, not a small warband or group, its the 34th millenial.
>>
>>44890377

Thanks anon. Shame it says they use the regular colours, but I suppose I could put them in sneaky black and say it's after that battle.
>>
>>44890067
With the current ruleset for Dorn, I'm fine with just having Sigismund as my mini Primarch.
>>
not sure if this has been asked before but what are you guys' thoughts on the 'limited edition cover art book'?
this one -
http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/hh-cover-art-collection-hb.html?utm_source=BlackLibrary.com&utm_campaign=72c82299ec-2016-01-16%20Cover%20Art%20HH&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_781f7c7929-72c82299ec-114705973
>>
>>44890601
I'm honestly fine not using my primarch ever, and he's got decent rules and a model.

They just look out of place on the table.
>>
>>44890193
Cottrel specifically said Russ is not being made next at the birthday event. Not sure where you're getting your info from.
>>
>>44879918
There'd have to be at least 1400 geneseed-implanted marines in a typical chapter to fill all of the specialist roles (especially vehicle/weapon operators).

"1000 marines" specifically refers to the notional number of line-of-battle marines. It's an organizational limit, not a capacity limit. Which is why e.g. headquarter staff aren't counted.
>>
>>44880296
>>44880296
The actual splitting didn't happen until after The Scouring.

>>44880504
>4/5ths of Ultramar still capable of recruiting new marines.

That's post-Calth, not post-Shadow Crusade. Lorgar/Angron didn't blow even a fifth of their combined forces at Calth, the rest split off to cause as much havoc as possible all over Ultramar while the Ultramarines, by comparison, were practically all at Calth and had to chase them across the length and breadth of the empire.

Ultramar is in tatters by the time the Ruinstorm is complete, and afterwards chunks of it become cut off for decades or even for good.

Totally possible that recruitment is whittled down to almost nothing - in fact it's possible that it's the reason Guilliman thought of the idea.

Also, Ultramar is directly above the biggest remaining Ork empires at the time of the Heresy, it's totally possible that huge numbers of Ultramarines are required to keep them at bay from even before the Heresy is over.
>>
>>44880675
That's not just 2nd-founding successors though, and isn't at all complete.
>>
>>44885275
>>44885421
>>44886063
The comment was made that they'd like to. I believe it was related to most of the Primarchs getting alternative models from later in the Heresy/during the Scouring (they have to do daemon versions of several of them anyway).

I believe they (Alan I think) also said they'd like to do Old Night/Unification Wars.

They've specifically said that they're not keen on Great Crusade.

Personally I imagine what they settle on will be mostly related to what will bring them in the most money, unless there's any stock in the rumor that they'll stop doing 40k-compatible stuff altogether.
>>
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It's been a while, tg. Hope everyone is well.

Quick question:

Can the Legion Seeker Strike Leader take a combi-weapon like his boys can?

I've asked elsewhere but I'm getting contradictory responses.

(Sorry for the simple query. At work.)
>>
>>44891490
>Can the Legion Seeker Strike Leader take a combi-weapon like his boys can?
No. If you look at the unit entry it very explicitly says who can take a combi-weapon. A "Strike Leader" is not among them.

Also that marine looks completely badgered ha.

He can however exchange his bolter for a plasma pistol and dual wield it alongside his bolt pistol.
>>
>>44891490

>>no
Cool, thanks.

>>explicitly says
I'm at work. Can't look at the book at the moment. I addressed that.

>>badgered
??
>>
>>44891740
>I'm at work
I know, it was just a reference for my answer. Not calling you out.

>badgered
druuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunk
>>
>>44891783
ah ok cool. I appreciate the reference!

Drunk? Heh. I guess it's the angle.
>>
>>44891490
>dat china resin
>>
>>44879814
One of the only primarchs believed to be able to beat Angron, yet only has weapon skill 8? >OAMILAFFIN.jpg
>>
>>44891962
He couldn't even beat Ka'Pandaman (Third Rate BT) on the first try.

He is no match for Angron.
>>
How do you prefer your Word Bearers Dark Martyr?
A) 235pts-Gal Vorbak 5x, Power Mace 1x, Martyr with Artificer Armour and Power Fist
B) 240pts-Gal Vorbak 5x, Power Mace 1x, Martyr with Artificer Armour and Pair of Lightning Claws
They will have a Chaplain with them, and ride in:
340pts-Legion Spartan Assault Tank, Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield

One is 5x S10 Ap2 Power Fist attacks on the charge, and the other is 6x S5 Ap3 rending attacks on the charge.
I have a Power Maul in the unit already for S7 and rending to potentially take out light vehicles, and the Chaplain gives Hatred, so most attacks will hit (already WS5).
Should Gal Vorbak ever go against 2+Sv units?
>>
>>44891254
They're not keen on the Great Crusade itself because all the goddamn xenos players will throw a fucking bitchfit because it's basically the Legions curbstomping the galaxy.
>>
>>44892676
You mean unlike today? I mean, Tau are pretty much the only ones making any progress. Eldar are a dying race, so anything they do must be a Pyrrhic victory at best, tyranids and orks might make a dent before getting pushed back and status quo restored, etc.
>>
>>44873547
This.
>>
>>44878660
For loyalist Night Lords I would go with an Adam West Batman sense of chivalry.
>>
What is best way to transport Sigismund and 30 templar brethren?
>>
>>44893746
A foam bag?
>>
>>44874639
Reminder that you're ignoring the core tenet of loyalty to justify your poor legion taste.
>>
>>44893746
Stormbird is the only thing I can think of that'll let them fit.
>>
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>>44894370
>>44893746
This thing is coming soon...
>>
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>>44882013
Im confident he could be attached; it makes sense that he is shouting NKVD style from the back.

pic not related, but nice inspiration for Militia.

>>44883746
>>44884112
>>44884084
Shooting is very powerful with lots of high-toughness and multiple wounds. The army is quite capable in melee due to high strength but typically has mediocre WS.

Primarch killing varies greatly and your best bet is generally shoot them with photon weapons and other weird shit and/or drown them in automata/tech-thralls.

Learn to love tech-thralls.
>>
>>44894544
I'm somewhat confident as well, I'm just wondering if the "Artillery" bit is going to affect the "Infantry" bit of the unit. Having a discipline master to help boost the Ld. of the unit is pretty crucial, seeing that they're Ld. 6 normally (7 with Warrior Elite) and if they Fall Back, they'll abandon their guns, destroying them.
>>
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Have there been and leaks or previews released of the rules for Dark Angels yet ?
>>
>>44894774
Nothing solid yet, just rumors about the different wings, and the errata mentioning how their LA rule works for automata
>>
>>44894452
>>
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Sup tg,

I'm going to be in posession of 40 BaC marines soon and I'm going to build a Raven Guard force. What would objectively be the best way to assemble them? Keep in mind that I can get extra special weapons from friends if needed.
>>
>>44894774
>>44894988

In the errata it gives the automata re-rolls to hit against MC and FMC so it's likely that that will be part of their legion rule
>>
>>44895511
Stock up on combi-weapons for Mor-Deythan, I guess.

Then you probably want 2 basic tactical squads, unless you choose to go with the fluffy but accepted to be worse option of assault squads for troops.
Another idea is to make a tactical support squad and pod it in using the Raven Guard RoW.
>>
>>44893746

A realization that templar brethren only come in squads of 5-10
>>
>>44891173
The Shadow Crusade burned "only" 25 planets, still leaving about 475 planet
>>
>>44896242
It burned Calth and Armatura though, 2/3 of the most important Ultraplanets
>>
>>44896266
There are still Iax, Espandor, Konor, Occluda and Saramanth
>>
is there anyone I can get Volkite Chargers in the US? I don't want to wait a month for shipping and am willing to pay a bit of a premium for that
>>
>>44895668
I don't mind taking tactical squads. Which number would be good though? 2 squads of 10 and then make droppod support/vets/heavyweapons out of the other 20? Or 2 big squads of 20 tacticals?
>>
>>44897041
Well.. that's going to depend on your final list composition I guess. If you plan to run some Drop Pods for Dreadnoughts and/or support squads, etc (the good stuff) then you probably want enough tacticals in drop pods to ensure the useful units arrive on turn one, with the tacticals arriving during the game to secure objectives. You may want to consider giving them CCW's, especially I have you have Maun around to give them counterattack.

I'd stay with 10 for footslogging squads too, infiltrate them up the board with a Rhino and use it as mobile cover when needed.

The commonly preferred option for sergeants seems to be artificer+power fist. But desu I think you can give them whatever you like (just don't go with a single Raven's Talon...)

Depending on your wallet, you may just want to convert models into Mor Deythan instead of buying those. They're not a requirement obviously but they sure are one of the most ridiculous one turn wonders in the game. In a Rhino+Raven Guard bonuses to going first/seizing initiative you can ensure they hit on T1.

Lastly, but not least. If I were you I'd be trading/selling etc those Mk4 armour bits for Mk6 (at least the legs and helmets). Raven Guard without beakies just isn't right.
>>
Techpriest Auxilia of 2 techpriests and 8 servitors with 8 plasma fusils. What should I give the priests? Volkite chargers or graviton guns?
>>
does a Fellblade mesh well with a non infiltrating Coils list at 3k?
>>
>>44896266
Armatura was the main recruiting place
>>
>>44897647
Wasn't it just the training place?
>>
>>44892339
>Should Gal Vorbak ever go against 2+Sv units?
no, go for dual claws.
>>
10x Reaver attack squad 375p
Anvillus dreadclaw drop pod
5x chain axes
2x power axes
2x power weapons
1x power fist
meltabomb

Is this a good build for reavers? I'm also wondering if drop pods are still worth it for CQC units after the FAQ.
>>
>>44898903
Regular Drop Pods, no. Anvillus is fine since you can still stay inside.
>>
>>44898490
So blender unit vs non-elites only?
Shame, cause Power Fist makes the Martyr a better Centurion too. Ok, claws it is.
>>
Raven Guard, 3k pts
RoW – Decapitation Strike

+Lord of War (1/1)+
Corvus Corax (450)

+HQ (1/3)+
Strike Captain Alvarex Maun (140)

+Troops (2/6)+
10 Legion Tactical Squad (230)
> Close Combat Weapons
> Artificer Armour
> Power Fist
Drop Pod

10 Legion Tactical Squad (210)
> Artificer Armour
> Power Fist
Rhino

+Elites (4/4)+
10 Mor Deythan Strike Squad (346)
> 8 Combi-flamers
> 2 Meltaguns
Rhino

10 Mor Deythan Strike Squad (346)
> 8 Combi-flamers
> 2 Meltaguns
Rhino

Contemptor Dreadnought (280)
> Dreadnought Talons
> Dreadnought Chainfist
> 2 Graviton Guns
Dreadnought Drop Pod

Contemptor Dreadnought (280)
> Dreadnought Talons
> Dreadnought Chainfist
> 2 Graviton Guns
Dreadnought Drop Pod

+Fast Attack (3/3)+
Dark Fury Assault Squad (175)

Dark Fury Assault Squad (175)

2 Javelin Attack Speeders (150)

+Heavy Support (1/1)+
Fire Raptor Gunship (210)
> Reaper Autocannon Battery
>>
>>44899018
They changed the wording on drop pods? Well fancy that. I wonder why.
>>
>>44899019
>So blender unit vs non-elites only?
Yeah pretty much, you can't get enough reliable AP2 in the squad to bother stuff like terminators.
>>
>>44899092
probably to sell more dreadclaws. jokes on them, you can make a bootleg dreadclaw pretty easily from a drop pod kit.
>>
>>44898490
>>44899110

I disagree, 2+ save units generally come with a very low number of attacks and/or can't beat I5. Generally, you will be hitting on 3's and wounding on 3's with a very large volume of attacks. And you won't get murdered on the way back either.

There is really nothing that's 'good' against 2+ saves 'cause there is barely anything that can bring enough ap2 hits. Gal Vorbak are the closest you can get to that.

In conclusion, I'd just give the Dark Martyr a power hammer too just to ensure that random light vehicle goes down and that the squad will put a dent in dreadnoughts etc.
>>
>>44899036
Can you even fire 8 combi flamer without burning your own troops?
>>
>>44899221
>There is really nothing that's 'good' against 2+ saves
plasma
paragon blades
>>
>>44899117
Too bad they tend to look like shit.

I'm amazed no 3rd party company has made not-dreadclaw kits. All you really need is some big claws and a hatch on the bottom. Shouldn't be too hard.
>>
>>44899268
ok, go find me a unit that has all plasma pistols and gunfighter, or one equipped with paragon blades.
>>
>>44899221
Didn't mean to imply that GV couldn't take on terminators, they just perform better at other things like wiping 3+ saves off the map. Terminators can be much more easily crushed from range.
>>
>>44899092
They're basically the same as 40k drop pods now.
>>
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>>44899299
>mfw imagining a destroyer squad with twin plasma pistols and gunfighter
>>
>>44897435

As someone looking at RG as well... do Mor Deythan make Seekers obsolete? And does mass infiltrate everywhere make Recon obsolete?
>>
>>44899395
Veteran Tacticals with Snipers already nearly make Seekers obsolete so I would answer yes on both counts.
>>
>>44899504

Cool, thanks for the tip.
>>
>>44899036
Your scoring units are not really tough, unless your alpha strike is enough to keep anything to shoot back this might be a problem.
>>
>>44899299
Palatine Blades, to an extent, as they can all have Phoenix Spears which are AP2 on the charge
>>
>>44899601
I feel this is a general problem in 30k. We are 'stuck' with unimpressive Tactical squads and I feel like the best thing to do is just to take more scoring stuff. That list has 4 10-man scoring units, three in a Rhino for mobility and one in a drop pod. Don't think it is possible to do much better, really.
>>
>>44899504
But my 30k sternguard!
>>
BL have two new HH Audio Dramas out for us. One about Thiel and the Ultras, the other about the White Scars.
>>
>>44899817
Veterans are your 30k sternguard, once you admit that to yourself everything will be ok. As an added bonus they are scoring where Seekers aren't.
>>
>>44899817
They're more impressive when their ammo is good against their enemy. In 30k those alternate ammo types don't do much more compared to sniper vets
>>
>>44899752

To be fair tactical legion squads are better than 40k tacticals in a vacuum, and tacticals aren't awful in 40k although they do gain a lot from detachments
>>
>>44899872
I'd like to know wtf happened with Thiel but hate their shitty audiobooks. Some fag summarize it for me.
>>
>>44899872
Grey Talon is excellent. A sequel to Scars and Brotherhood of the Moon and a prequel to Little Horus. One of the best stories from the Meduson anthology.
>>
>>44899898
They got Precision Shot standard and Scorpius bolts give them Rending and Shred.
>>
>>44895511
10 Mor Deythan
>7x combi flamers, 3 Plasma if you want to infiltrate rhino and fatal strike
or
>7x combi flamers, 3x melta if you want to assault out of a darkwing

2x10 Tactical marines
>Vex

or take 2x10 veteran tactical(for a pride RoW list)
One squad
>x2 heavy bolter, sniper tactic
Second
>x2 Plasma, sniper tactic

x5 Terminators
>5 combi plas, chainfist/ravens talons to taste, get them a darkwing

Convert chappy into Strike Captain Maun.

Termi character can be just about anything you want.

Contemptor Kheres and chainfist. Get a pod for him in the future.

>>44899036
Give the Mor Deythan plasma instead of melta, you're not assaulting after infiltrate/scout/disembarking a rhino and a two plasmas will serve you better.

At these levels typhons, fellblades, and spartans come out to play. With two pods for the dreads you're staggering the damage and it will be difficult to keep the first alive. The only other thing that can take on a superheavy is corax. Which is doable, but hard, unless its a spartan with an enemy primarch and friends. You dont want corax anywhere near that. YOu want to pop spartans at range and shoot the contents to hell. I would change a rhino to drop pod so both contemptors can come down and do 4HP turn one. Drop the CC weapons on tacs, you dont want them in the mix you jsut want them scoring, and give maun camo too.

>>44899395
No, because seekers can take a pod in a decap list while mor deythan can't.

But yes on the recons, because Mor deythans with sniper rifles exist and you can mass infiltrate.

>>44899231
Barely, I always recommend 7 combi and 3 plasma because the last three(especially 2) will be struggling to be effective.

>>44899881
>scoring where Seekers aren't
Seekers have been scoring since the first book 3 faq
>>
>>44900056
>>44899395
Oh yes, precision shots is huge. Combine with the ability to take a pod in a decap list. Mor Deythan rack up the bodies, Seekers take down the characters.
>>
>>44899968

Is it actually just the Meduson story turned into an Audio Drama? I won't buy it then, I own Meduson.
>>
>>44900259
yeah, from the looks of things
>>
>>44900259
Yes. It's just a different format. They do sort of a weird release system, but in the end all stories are released in all formats except for trade paperback stupid fucking liars saying the older books would be reprinted and then only doing hardcovers goddamnit..
>>
>>44874371

Who's the beakie in the background?
>>
>>44901444
just another knight-errant, there were more than just Garro and they all wore prototype MK6 armour, unpainted
>>
Anyone know if the masterclass book has been scanned yet?
>>
>>44874371

He's the git gud option
>>
ok

Ok

Hear me out

Option for two wound command squads


Boom
>>
>>44900248

So how would you equip them in this set up? Have the Mor Deythan stick to being snipers?
>>
>>44902522
We're 1/5 there already.
>>
>>44903484

Make Centurions not take up an HQ slot

Have them all join together as a Centurion council on jetbikes
>>
>>44901528
I know man...ive been hanging out for it since it came out.
>>
>>44903641
No, just make them 1-3 per slot.
>>
>>44903667

1-5 and you have a deal
>>
>>44903667

>AL inflicts 3 automatic penetrating tank Hunter hits on your Spartan

Lel
>>
>>44903677
Don't push your luck.
>>
>>44903698
Can't you do that now?
>>
>>44903763

Three? No, saboteurs aren't compulsory HQs
>>
>>44899957
He keeps getting promoted and demoted
There's a short audio where he fights on calth alongside a penal legionnary - the guy's wife was raped by his work boss and he killed him but the authorities didn't bother to investigate the rape and just sent him to die - so his wife and kid will probably end up dead without his support
Grim story
Haven't had chance to listen to this one yet but guess it's pre deathfire and explains how thiel got the idea of forming roving attack fleets to kill the war bands
Would lob to know if thiel survived and became a chapter master and if so which chapter
>>
>>44900325
Cos no one want to buy tpb - they prefer hardback or paperback
>>
So has no one ever noticed the cock on the slaaneshi daemon in the general image?

>>44901528
The pain of waiting hurts too hard. Need to know them paints for that imperial fist tank.
>>
>>44904681

No, not everyone seeks the cock as hungrily as you do.
>>
>>44904958
Who's the blue guy under the red Titan on the right hand side? Imperial Army?
>>
>>44905498

Solar Auxilia
>>
>>44905498
Solar Auxilia
>>
>>44901528

It will be. Have patience. Has the Scanon ever let us down?
>>
>>44905579
>>44905585
Stop it, Alpharius.
>>
>>44892339
They should focus on killing Elite units that don't have a 2+ or something like a 3++. Fortunately there aren't that many in 30k.
Other terminators you should drown in Bolter fire, a round of Fury of the Legion with 15+ firing should take down a few.
The Power Fist should make him be capable of taking down most HQs, beyond named characters or a lucky Praetor. The Claws will get more mileage out of though, as it increases your kill likelihood much more (especially at I5).
For 5pts more, I'd go with Claws, unless your list lacks ways of taking out Armour.
>>
I've seen some argument about this. Is Sevatar (or any IC) able to join a squad with the infiltrate USR if the unit is being kept in reserves or deploying via deepstrike?
>>
is it just me or are the Sons of Horus just plain boring? It's odd to me that they're the vanilla legion while the Ultramarines get some pretty serious special rules
>>
>>44908292

Ultramarines are only vanilla in 40k. In 30k they were quite unique. In 30k SoH and IF were the "vanilla" legions. And even then, they are specced a little - one to close combat, one to range.
>>
>>44908376
Well, "vanilla" in that they're the "standard model" for Marines in 30k.

I'm sure if chocolate was the default ice cream flavor, vanilla wouldn't have such a bad wrap.
>>
>>44907640
This fucking 40k errata v1.1 from December says an IC without Infiltrate may not join a group of infiltrators during deployment.

I guess there goes sticking him in a pod with my Terror Squad. Sev has a cool model and some cool combat rules but it is fucking rough trying to get him anywhere.

I guess I'll just stick a jump pack Praetor in a squad of Night Raptors. I kind of wanted to make my own chapter anyway.
>>
>>44908555
Its such a blatant failure of rules writing in sure you'll have no trouble getting it OK'd. Especially in the 30k world.
>>
>>44908737
Yeah, I think I'll just pretend I never saw this errata. It's a fluffy list anyway. And Terror Assault is too good to pass up. It's like Orbital and Pride had a spooky baby.
>>
>>44909236
Or I could quit being a little bitch and stick him in a pod with some vets.
>>
>>44904187
The paperbacks don't have the editorial changes and the hardbacks are 30 bucks a piece. Why even bother printing TPBs at all if you're only doing half the fucking series?
>>
Hey /tg/

My friends are getting together to do a fluffy Istvaan III campaign and I'm ending up with loyalist EC. I don't want to be a fluff-ruiner and take a super mechanized force but I'm wondering - is there anyway to do good footslogging marines, at least in a campaign with dense cover like this? I was thinking outflanking dreds and Rylanor might be fun and fluffy.
>>
>>44897647
>>44898217

It was both and a major manufacturing planet. Betrayer goes to detail the importance of its shipyards.
>>
>>44914249
EC loved outflanking armoured spearheads. EC was literally "can do everything" legion that added flair to their tactics. Take whatever you want, its HOW you use them that makes them EC.
>>
>>44914355

Oh, I know - but I'm aiming for some fluff here on Istvaan III. So, mainly infantry and dreds, with maybe just a few looted vehicles, not many flyers.
>>
>>44914394
So you mean shattered legion/later into the battle essentially. Not the opening salvo when there all the everythings. If so then you already have it.
>>
>>44914438

Yeah. I mean, I'd like it to be mildly effective, but still fluffy, hence the question.

If it helps, I know one of my opponents is likely going to be just spamming huge WE blobs, and the other one is probably going to be dropping a lot of SoH infantry and terminators everywhere.
>>
>>44907640
IIRC most people rule that it only applies if the unit is actually infiltrating, not if they're being held in reserve or deep strike reserve. The FAQ doesn't say that, but it's massively overly broad the way it is written.
>>
>>44915820
Correct, can't infil with the unit if it has a attached chr without infil. You can howerver give them Apothecaries because they are just characters and are treated as upgraded member of the unit
>>
>>44914249
Blobs of 20 with an apothecary is the way to go for footslogging. If you mix and match armour marks in the unit it'll fit the fluff too: the blobs are just a conglomeration of surviving members of various squads, and the apothecary is the reason they've been able to hold out this long.

On the crunch side I'd upgrade them with extra close combat weapons (because you want to win combat and sweep), legion vexilla (because having a blob flee is bad) and an artificer/phoenix spear/melta bomb sergeant (because you have to challenge, and you want to win).
>>
>>44915973
Also, sonic shriekers wherever possible. In the I4 world I5 is king.
>>
>>44910339
When you print a hardback there is setting out stuff due to size etc paperbacks have to be reedited to fit and other stuff which costs - including more expensive paper
Tpb just take hardback pages and shove them in a soft cover - so initial costs already covered
Add to that you can charge more and so higher profit margin
The idea was to force people to buy tpb by not releasing paperback at all
Since they didn't sell because people hate how their spines bend, they aren't going to waste cash on printing more in that size
Instead they are making up the projected profit by limited editions and drip feeding the shorts
But that has meant less hype for the series especially as many of the stories are going to be about losses and destruction which most people don't like eg I am never reading damnation of pythos again it was such a downer
>>
>>44866531
>Magnus is a nerd who only lift books.
Books can be heavy as fuck thought. Move them in bulk and you got yourself a nice little workout.
>>
>>44867114
So he can use the warp to move and impale enemies on them, duh.
>>
>>44875712
this sounds like a amazing setting. Convoys of heavy vehicles patrol the stormy desserts and planes, occasionally fighting gorkamorka-style orks and traitors
>>
>>44873359
Post pics.
>>
>>44874639
You know it, iron within brother.
>>
>>44889376
Alpharius, I hope.
>>
>>44899872
Will check out the WS one for sure.
>>
>>44914249
Speaking of loyalist EC, Lucius rules when?
>>
>>44916370
Lucius can wait, I want Fabius!
>>
Any suggestions on finding egyptian-ish shields that are about the size of breacher's shields?

I tried some of the Tomb Kings ones but they're missing out vertically and look a bit dinky on marines.
>>
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>>44916370
>loyalist EC
>lucius
>>
>>44917098
Ah yes Fabius as well, why not both?

>>44917228
It was a joke.
>>
>>44917565
wasn't very funny
>>
>>44917130
scribor has some egyptian shields, they're not very boarding shield shaped but they're big
>>
Are three 20-man mobs of Tacticals with an Apothecary each a solid core for a HH army ?
>>
>>44917828
Depends on the rest of your army composition.>>44917828
>>
>>44917828
Well, it's a solid points sink, for sure. You're paying at least 295 pts per squad but probably want to kit them out a bit if you're going to go that route anyway. With an augury scanner and ccw's you will be looking at 340 pts each, not counting any further sergeant upgrades, standards, voxes, etc.

In conclusion: Assuming 3k points, you will have spent over a third of your points on very vanilla troops that are reasonably good at doing anything you ask of them. Of the points you have left you will likely spend 600 or so on HQ and a Primarch and you'll have some 1400 left, at most, for stuff that can actually fight it's way through a pack of butter without it lasting a bunch of turns. It helps, of course, if your Legion/Primarch is a massive buffmonster (like Alpharius, for example) but I still think you are diluting your hitting power a bit too much.
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