>Red Sonja Archetypical. Fucked Conan but didn't get emotionally involved. >Paksenarrion A slightly later, slightly more genre savvy Red Sonja. >Rico's love interest from Starship Troopers I can't remember her name. I think it started with C. But she meaningfully interacts with the political philosophy of the book and discusses it with the MC. Dizzy in the film is good too. >Vasquez Baddest ass marine in the whole crew. No questions. Possibly manliest marine in the whole crew. >Ripley 'Nuff said. >Malta From Robin Hobb's Liveship Traders series. Great character, strong characterisation. There is a meaningful character arc, she grows and changes, and she acts in a completely rational, though self interested, manner. >Judge Anderson While her depictions change with writers and artists, often she is damaged but competent, with the depth of trying to overcome her past trauma. Some of the comics really deal quite strongly with her character growth.
>>44863838 >>44864237 >I'm so brainwashed by Hollywood I don't know what normal human beings are supposed to look like any more honestly, this is yet another reason I prefer the original star wars trilogy - the people actually looked like normal people. Take a look at the X-wing pilots in the Death Star battle, for example. I'm not just talking about Porkins - they looked like they didn't even bother going through an acting agency, they just pulled people straight off the street. They actually looked like a rag-tag band of ordinary people who'd taken up arms against the Empire, rather than male models looking to make some side-cash in between swimwear shoots.
>>44864250 >>didn't have the nails in her head because Because she wasn't a Marine and wasn't a frontline combatant? They make you deadlier in close range combat, they'd be actively counterproductive in a ship captain.
>>44865127 >No characterization >Highly sexualized in a tumblr fashion ("WOMYN RAEP MAN IS STRONK!") >Phallic imagery everywhere on her >Movie's antagonist >defeated by a more "conventionally feminine" female >Comes from a society where the primary goal of the woman is to shit out babies and sit in a nest for most of her life
>>44864421 It's my understanding that at points in history it was fashionable for noblewomen to take sword fighting classes for health and lols. She also had a lady boner for Will, and his main interest was making swords, so there could've been a personal reason to bully a guard into teaching her some. But that's all just making excuses for how she was able to fight trained military men (which most pirates were)
Whatsherface from Steins;Gate. I'm ashamed I forgot her name since I developed a crush on her for a bit. Makise.
>>44865366 The female characters were all over the place. Some of them were pretty strong like Cass and the mute in Dead Money had pretty good characterisation, though told rather than shown. And there are others which, like the First Recon soldier whose character can be reduced to a one note cliche. And Veronica, who I wish was more fleshed out with like the responsibility of being able to leave the base but the conflict of not believing in the Brotherhood's actions as such, but instead was just 'I want a dress' and 'I'm a lesbian.' I guess that's a problem with the amount of content that you have to deal with.
>>44865687 I don't consider artists for their politics. If I did that then I wouldn't enjoy half the good stuff that I do. Like Marinetti, a truly abhorrent but entertaining psychotic, or Polanski, who escaped a trial for raping a 13 year old, or Will Smith for being a Scientologist.. For the sake of future arguments, I am using 'artist' in this context to include voice actors. Veronica could have been worse though.
>>44865594 Correction, she is an intentionally unlikable bitch, she often misunderstands a lot of basic subtext and subtlety due to her adolescent and inexperienced nature, and this is shown when everything is from her perspective and her commentary overlays the actual situation, that's why the books are in a better medium than the movie Although if your draw to a work is that your protagonist "was supposed to be horrible" you may want to take a different path in life
>>44865879 I don't think so. Angua was very different from Susan, and neither of them were anything like Granny Weatherwax. For that matter, Granny Weatherwax isn't like Nanny Ogg (who is, in her own way, a strong female character).
>>44865541 FNV has so many good female characters and good characters just in general, but it's kinda hard to have a game with as many characters and such a short development time as NV and not have some mediocre/boring ones,
>>44865930 She might have just been extremely promiscuous to start with and all the rape did was turn her into a lesbian. A common aspect of rape related PTSD is a complete turn off of the offending sex. Might not be common in games or stories but its common IRL.
>>44866116 >>44865990 >>44865879 He definitely got better at writing women later. His first few books have pretty weak female characters. Of them only Carpet People has more than a couple of female characters and that book was written for children and isn't really full of strong characters in the first place. Must have taken him til at least Wyrd Sisters to have good women characters. Equal Rites doesn't count because he was still feeling out his characterisation. >>44865930 Isn't it? >>44866197 For sure. I love the game to a fault, which is why perhaps I treat it harshly. The flaws stand out all the more sharply.
>>44866232 wouldn't you just turn to asexuality if you were a heterosexual person afflicted by that aspect of PTSD? because you don't just "turn gay" except in some cases of severe brain damage resetting your personality. you have to at least by closeted bi for something similar to what you describe to happen imo
Made a selfless wish to save her best friend from a cruel death, and refused to back down from that wish no matter how many times she watched that friend die, each timeline ending up worse than the last one.
By the end of the show, even she doesn't know how many times she has watched the world end.
Not the most accurate depiction of Arthurian mythology, but a damn good character in her own right. Willing to undo every good thing she ever did in order to make way for someone even better to fill her place in history, for the good of her people. Selfless to the point of inhumanity.
>>44866320 >Whiney. I don't know. I think I'd complain a lot too if people kept trying to kill me.
Katniss has her skill-set (archery) and she sticks within it. She still needs other people and doesn't magically develop new abilities just because its convenient, unlike some female movie characters (*cough* Rey). For example, at the end of catching fire (spoilers if you haven't seen it) she doesn't figure the way out of the arena by herself. If it had been Star Wars the Force Awakens Rey would have come up with the plan to escape and executed it all on her own. Katniss actually uses her black dude. .
Maybe the romance is a little bit ego stroking - do you ever notice how male protagonists are faced with the challenge of getting the girl they like to notice them, but the problem for female protagonists is simply choosing which of the incredibly hot guys trying to get with her that she wants to end up with? But hey, this is teen fiction, and the Hunger Games is far from the worst offender (see: Twilight).
I actually felt Jennifer Lawrence did a pretty good job with angst. She actually made katniss seem traumatised rather than needy, which she should be given what she's been through.
>>44866528 She volunteers to enter the kill or be killed match....the whines about it.
And ya, the romance drama is just stupid. Maybe guys want to fuck some bitchy chick that looks like j-law. I won't argue that.. But for some magical reason, all the studs love her..and want to be with only her. Its sickening.
>>44866716 the YA romance drama makes a bit more sense in the books' context. look at book Katniss: a half deaf (and later traumatized to the point of not being able to function properly) plain brown girl from the bottom of society, without much of an education, who's pushed into the spotlight. it's not hard to guess why she gets some spots of hope, is it? you don't want the girls who read your books to call you an edgy tryhard. movie Katniss is bullshit and I hate her, we on the same page there
>>44865513 Well there was a spin-off series written by another author about that however it's a lot of flack especially from other authors as the original author specifically requested that other authors leave his work alone before he died
>>44867342 The last anime I watched was One-Punch Man, and before that, Fullmetal Alchemist. So not a huge fan of the genre much anymore. But I'd never in a lifetime argue Lady Eboshi wasn't a goddamn cold-iron slinging mafioso.
>>44868670 Speaking of chicks who dealt with Night Lords, Mita Ashyn from Lord of the Night. Strong-willed, determined, fallible, and not afraid to go against a superior who was seemingly either incompetent or insane.
Question: How would you go about making a story with a primarily female cast?
I'm thinking, just never bring that up and let characters be characters regardless of their gender, but concerned that tipping the ratio so far towards women will feel like 1. trying too hard or 2. too anime.
>>44869007 Write them as men, then change them to women when you're done. It won't feel forced if your writing is good enough anyway. Just remember that characters have flaws, and make everyone respond realistically to those flaws, and you'll be fine
>>44869007 Just make whatever character you want with a sensible design, and flick the switch to male or female however the hell you feel like. Men are allowed to act 'feminine', women are allowed to act 'masculine'.
I've seen plenty of games run by men and women alike I've played with where the cast leaned either way just by whatever chance or reason or mood and it's worked fine and been believable. Good fiction writing it about PERSONALITY, not what bits they got.
>>44869141 I hate how Robert Jordan did this as well. Like, it's fine to use duality and disparity as recurring themes for your story, and saying men and women are different in support of those themes, but not when every single woman has nearly identical personalities, and ESPECIALLY not when that personality is "sour and condescending".
I can almost give Eddings a pass because everything he wrote was incredibly tongue-in-cheek, but only almost.
>>44869334 I'm not sure why it's so hard. I've had majority-female casts before and I just think of all the women I've known in life, pretty, average, ugly, young, old, whatever, and draw inspiration. Same with the men. Same with all my stories. It makes writing so much more fun that way, especially when someone I've been writing for a while finally finds their own voice.
>>44869577 I just can't fathom writing a cast where all women/men/etc are really good looking and unpleasant. It just makes it feel like some weirdly buried fantasy the author has. It'd also be exhausting to write 10 variations of the same base character concept.
Like in my games, I try to make especially good looking people somewhat rare, and just have an even spread of all kinds of appearances since that makes characters way easier to remember as well, and adds some characterization when subtle hints are made regarding how people treat one another.
Also a focus on colors, a little bit of personality in their fashion or described in the expression, maybe qualifiers like "sleep-deprived eyes but looked like they really took good care of themselves" to mix and match qualifiers to let the reader sort of make their own impression without pining it down hard and specific as "ROCK HARD ABS / TITS DOWN TO CAROLINA" or whatever unless that's meant to be some explicitly mentioned thing.
>>44869752 No. I just made it up on the spot, because I thought "well the fixation on tits" and then "cleavage" and then "what's far down that's snappy and makes me think of some southern belle model with giant breasts" instantly "CAROLINA"
>>44869614 I didn't really hate Ce'Nedra, at least not upfront. She established her role as a bitchy princess and it was like, okay, that's who she is, and later she got a cool moment when she basically bought her dad's entire army out from under him. That whole scenario was funny, and it was in-character.
But then in the next series she does precisely nothing to contribute to the story except be vaguely tragic. Obviously Garion was hurting too, since it was their own kid they were trying to get back, but they both just fell headfirst into the trap of "men are stoic, women are weepy", rather than make them both equal in the fight.
Eddings could take some cliches and make them fun, but when he got it wrong, he got it REALLY wrong.
>>44869334 WoT Talk: See, Nynaeve was actually the best character.
She was an awful jerk to everyone, but so were the rest of the women in the series. The thing with Nynaeve was, they would actually call her on it. This would case her to react, and then others react to her again, and over and over, and boom, there ya go, actual character dynamics. Fun was had.
But every other female character was just as awful and they all just got away with it, making them all enormously frustrating to read.
Upfront, it was refreshing seeing a lady playing the "fuck it let's just smash everything" team member, and then later, she got lots of low-key, somewhat tragic but satisfying character moments. I liked the one about her dealing with Solomon Grundy.
>>44870025 Yeah, the Ixultu arc was pretty awesome. I wasn't a Hawk Girl fan at first, but I grew to love the character. She and John Stewart played well off each other, and she had good moments with Diana as well.
However, I'm a fan of almost everything DCAU pumps out.
>>44864606 >>44869995 I haven't got a Wii U yet so I can't speak for Xenoblade X, but Xenoblade here had a couple of other great female characters: Fiora and Melia.
On the surface they totally played up to stereotypes, Fiora being the spunky action girl and Melia being the pretty princess, but both characters followed through with their storylines and kind of proved that it's OKAY to be girly-girls, you don't need to act like a dude to be awesome.
Also, for what it's worth: the Xeno games are some of the few things that actually got romance RIGHT. Fei and Elly, and Shulk and Fiora were incredibly sweet and heartwarming.
Hell, you could possibly even make a similar case for Shion and Allen. Or possibly Shion and KOS-MOS. But it falls flat because Shion was kind of an unlikable shithead.
But as to the actual thread subject: Pic also related.
>>44863559 Strong, genre-savvy characters? Ryan North's and Erica Henderson's Squirrel Girl in "The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl." She's everything a heroine should be, and a sack of nuts: funny, brave, caring, and she never gives up.
I'm a DC fanboy, but this is the only comic book series I'm buying regularly.
>>44870784 Embric of Wulfhammer Castle, an RPG maker "game" about a duchess being sent far from her homeland as a quest reward for the hero Embric, basically. It's kind of like a visual novel with RPG elements and actual RPG combat near the end. The opening credits give special thanks to /u/, because the game is about 80% gay, and /tg/, because it uses D&D cosmology and terminology.
>>44864250 >>defeats a larger fleet commanded by a goddamn primarch
Space combat is a RADICALLY different animal requiring an extremely different form of strategy, tactics, and problem solving. Primarchs are hyper-intelligent compared to humans, but that doesn't mean a regular human can't beat them in a game of strategy when the human is one of the best there is and is in her element while the Primarch is unfamiliar with the nuances of how the battle is even fought in the first place.
>>44870882 I think I remember the hubub when it came out. Vaguely. Thanks for helping me remember. >>44870933 Same here, man. Even after I've gotten out of the hobby itself, I still enjoy the hell out of that book.
>>44874243 Wasn't the second half of the final book basically Katniss fucking up constantly though? IIRC all she 'achieved' when she took command was killing half of her squad, killing some random civvie because and advancing so fucking slowly on their little assassination mission that the main advance caught up to them when they reached Snow's mansion.
Also I like the way that the film managed to make the rebels look worse than the Capital by removing the blender-street and having the rebels open fire on a mass of unarmed refugees because Peacekeepers were directing them towards the mansion.
It's been so long that I honestly forget if that guy who would show up in every thread like this and insist that there had literally never been a well written female lead in the history of fiction was from here or /co/ but regardless those of you who know who I'm talking about must understand how relieving it is to see this thread and not see his posts
>>44864502 Effie is probably the best part of the movies, and she only got better as they went on. The moment that sold me was when she had to call up Peeta and Katniss for the second time, and it was clear that even she, who had drunk the Capital's kool-aid to the dregs, knew this was bullshit.
>>44869007 Just have it make sense that they're mostly women, within the context of what the story is about. For example, you could easily film a remake of Twelve Angry Men with rule63'd cast. There's been all-female juries before in real life, so it wouldn't be weird for there to be one in this movie. Mean Girls is about a sweet innocent girl getting caught up in the kind of catty high school backstabbing drama that high school girls are infamous for. It makes sense that the only men in the movie are either love interests (Aaron), treated as "one of the girls" (Damien) or explicitly outside of and not involved with the drama itself (Caty's father, the principal, the Mathletes, etc). In the same way, you couldn't film Fury with an all-female tank crew (because it's supposed to be historical and that shit wouldn't be accurate). Remember the Titans is about a high school football team, so it makes sense that women would be far less involved in the story than the men would be.
>>44863705 Whoa. Paksenarrion mentioned in the first reply.
>>44864609 >I adore her. I wish she were discussed more on /tg/. Me too, kind of. I really enjoyed the first trilogy and the books about Gird as a kid, so I bought the entire five-book follow-up series on faith. Got through about one and a half, and I just can't continue. My god, it's so fucking terrible.
>>44870044 I don't think her heart was necessarily cold, just practical enough to know that the only way she was going to keep Iron Town alive was with violence. >>44877201 >man and industry vs. nature That's how I interpreted the film when I first saw it, too. After watching it a few times, I came away with a different message: Ashitaka's goal wasn't to stop Lady Eboshi, but to bring an end to the cycle of violence that was gaining speed among both Iron Town and the spirits of the forest.
>>44863559 Yayoi is a consumate profesional that does her job and occasionaly puts a hand on people's shoulders when they worry about death to much. She also the best Lesbian character in all of creation as her sexuality doesn't influence anything other than whom she sleeps/falls in love with.
Rukia Kuchiki feels like a real person. She has her quirks like her obsession with rabbits and badly-drawn diagrams, and her antagonistic relationship with Ichigo especially early on does seem like Kubo is trying too hard - the only other person she acts like that with is Renji, but that was literally a century ago. But she also has some very real, very personal weaknesses. Her own sense of guilt basically paralyzed her in the SS arc, and it almost got her killed in Hueco Mundo. Her blind acceptance of the SS' authority and her brother's wishes to keep her from suffering the same fate as his wife kept her out of a seated position despite her competency. Once Byakuya decides to let go, she jumps from basically being one of the rank-and-file to being second-in-command of her division.
>>44868670 I like how she constantly ignored the Exalted and punked him in front of the other NLs showing everyone how utterly incompetent he was.I half expected her to give First Claw a speech about how they were such fucking losers that their Captain got possessed by literally the biggest pussy in the entire warp, their Khorne Bezerker is actually a pretty sad guy and their Chaos Sorcerer got bullied by mortals.
Seriously, least intimidating possessed marine ever: "OBEY ME OR I SHALL SHALL ONCE AGAIN FOR THE THIRD TIME MUMBLE HOLLOW THREATS TO MYSELF THEN MOPE FOR A WHILE"
[mumbles and mopes internally]
Also what kind of Traitor Marine gets saved by his slaves because they pity him? Dude your slaves are so worried that they are staging an intervention, get your shit together.
I was always of the opinion that Homura's relationship with Madoka wasn't romantic, certainly not at the start. In the beginning, Madoka was just her best friend and someone she thought she could save with magic.
But then saving her didn't work. So she tried again.
Until, eventually, every day when she woke up the first question on her mind was "How do I save Madoka?"
Her whole life sort of spun into orbit around Madoka and her fate and how to change it. An obsession that she couldn't back down from anymore. Because after several iterations of the timeline, giving up on saving Madoka wouldn't just mean letting her friend die, it would mean that all of the horrible shit that Homura had been through up until that point, giving up her own soul and future, had been for nothing.
So it ended up as a weird sort of love, more like obsession or worship than romance. After watching the end of the world happen multiple times and only thinking about how too save one girl who perished that day, how could it not come to that?
Which is also why the end of Rebellion goes down the way it does. Because Homura realized that the ending of the show was better than any of the previous timelines had ended up, but it still wasn't what she set out to do. And, god fucking damn it, she was going to get what she wanted for once.
>>44877207 I'm pretty sure Peeta was the only genuinely good person in the main cast. He just wanted to make cakes and instead he gets caught up in some unbelievable bullshit and gets literally mindfucked to hell and back until he snaps.
>>44867342 This has to be one of the first movies where I actually liked all the characters for their different personalities. Mononoke was a badass, but so was every woman in iron town. I think the forge stokes women were my favorite.
Today, my fav female character would have to be Revy, possibly because being female is only at the end of her description.
I can't argue that Vasquez was a major badass though. Not enough competent butch women in telle these days.
>>44868497 I think I could spend all day gassing on about how awesome every character from every Ghibli film was. Except the gold fish girl, can't remember her name.
Side note, I just remembered ReL Mayer, from Ergo Proxy. She reminds me of a female Roland Deschain. Cold, unimaginative, and grumpy, but undoubtedly skilled at her profession. Granted she was pretty entitled, I think the character flaw was played out well, like she were a knight used to having servants.
>>44885064 I knew it was something with a Po something. The only thing that got me to give the rest of the movie a shot, was because prior to that my friend's in joke was shouting ham into a pretend CB radio spontaneously after he fell asleep playing video games with me.
A character shouting ham made me watch a movie I didn't care for.
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