>Party makes it to the BBEG's main room
>He begins to give a monolog
>Have character charge in to attack him mid sentence
>GM just smiles
>My character just smacks into a force field
>GM: "You'll just have to wait until he is finished speaking, Anon."
>not expecting this shit
If I were a big bad, I would monologue all the time, but I would have a fuckload of traps in place beforehand so I could taunt adventurers into them.
It's like you don't even mastermind.
Trap doors, spike pits, crocodile tunnels, a straight chute to the 'Here's my other dragons' room, Magic Forcefield, mana bombs under the tiles, and comically sized bear traps that decapitate the victim.
Am I missing anything?
>I don't care about your story and characters, I just want to kill people and I haven't made an attack roll in ten minutes!
You sound like a terrible player. Where's your curiosity?
>leaving your guard down so some psychopath can rant his manifesto at you
>giving him openings to kick your ass
>not ending his evil while he's distracted by his own theatrics
Some hero you are
>Not just smugly saying that talking is a free action, followed by reciting a detailed log of all the times the players have made complicated plans in the middle of a fight.
You can do better, OP.
Dont see a problem here. Let bbeg have his EVIL MASTERMIND 1000000 YEAR OLD PLAN speech then you can get to the fighting. Learn some patience and sprinkle a bit of commen story tropes on your experience.
>bbeg starts monologing
>party ignores him, starts buffing each other, starts preparing various effects for when the speech finishes, and eventually starts going through his underwear drawer for loot and kicks
>leaving your guard down
So the next time the party sleeps at an inn, the next boss drops a bomb from a plane on it and you all die. No matter what precautions you take. It just works.
You can't say shit because that's your own reasoning backed by the GM's absolute power. The only thing ever allowing you a fair chance is mutual desire to tell a good story.
And it's not a good story to have the heros act like idiots when the villain is right before them just waiting to have his face smashed in.
Good GMs make sure the monologue occurs BEFORE they get to seeing the King Evil in his throne room. A monologue as the heroes fight their way through the endless maze in his castle, or while hacking through his men as he sits on a balcony far above drinking wine casually out of a glass, or giving a conference call to brag, or a dozen other methods that don't leave the heros looking like their thumbs are stuck up their asses.
Because that's not the GM telling a good story.
Admittedly it's not an ideal way to tell a story, but if some plot point is left unexplained by that time, it would be an even worse story to have the "heroes" just kill everyone in the room because it's how they deal with literally every problem.
Sleeping at an inn is different from standing idle when you have a chance to stop the big bad.
>your own reasoning backed by the GM's absolute power
I'm not a GM. I just think it's somewhat foolish to let the bad guy finish his rant instead of killing him. If the protagonist is quite powerful like OPM or Superman, I could see that, but otherwise he's giving the bad guy a chance to mess him up. Which is irresponsible when there are real stakes involved.
Besides, if you really want to hear his side of the story, he can talk all he wants when he's nice and safe behind bars.
>unexplained plot point
If that's happening, have the BBEG spell it out to them in perfect clarity WHILE he's hacking them to bits or they're whittling away at his defenses. Or have someone ELSE, a friendly NPC burst into the scene and explain the devious plan in breathless voice while your BBEG cackles like a maniac.
What, afraid your BBEG will go down to some pansy crit? Give him an item of strong fortification and laugh yourself.
Stopping your players from taking action when they can because you want to tell the story YOUR way is terrible GMing. An impervious wall of force that won't disappear until the BBEG finishes speaking is definitely classed under that category.
>Are there ANY out there which try to police how much the PCs talk when they're in dangerous straits?
Shadowrun has an example for how much speech one can belt out in a free action. Even DnD rounds are only 6 seconds, which pretty intuitively means you can only have that much time to converse each round.
In 99% of games the story will need contorted around fairness tropes to give the PC's a fighting chance.
The bbeg sends weaklings at first because he underestimated the threat.
It's not unreasonable to let the Dm enjoy his monolog trope when the PC's have almost assuredly been enjoying all the tropes that come from being pcs.
>not insulting the villain by duck-mouthing your hand during his speech and asking if they can say their stupid shit in 10 words or less, or if they're just so lonely and bored they're desperate to monologue to the first bunch of tardshows that come barging in
Why attack when you can provoke, bully, and mock? Step it up, senpai.
Don't talk bollocks, m8.
The player BBEG relationship is adversarial, meaning they have every reason to kill him at first opportunity.
The GM player relationship is only adversarial if someone's doing it wrong, meaning he has no reason to target the players specifically unless the BBEG has the resources to know and exploit such an opportunity, and t would be in character for him to do so.
I'm pretty sure you know this, deep down
>the BBEG's entire monologue has actually been the verbal components for all his most powerful spells
This is why the BBEG has a back-up plan. There's some kind of time bomb or hostage element. He'll fight the party to the death, but if they don't get at least some clue or piece of information from him first, they're fucked.
>I look for a sturdy object to use as an improvised weapon
>I draw an arrow an take action to aim
>I also take action to aim
>I strenghten the party with my spells
>I meditate to increase the toughness of my skin
Preparation is key before the big tough battle, you know?
>unless the BBEG has the resources to know and exploit such an opportunity, and t would be in character for him to do so
I'm curious as to who you think decides that, if not the GM.
>not entering the grand throne room, the BBEG seated in his mighty chair, legs crossed and expression bored, before he rises with a sweep of his cape, looks down upon the gathered advemturers, opens his mouth to speak, and says-
Monologue at me, heroes. IMPRESS me.
This. Before you go into initiative order or action time or whatever your system uses, you can be doing things (of course, those may trigger it...).
BBEG might get more prep time if he can hear the adventurers in the previous room, or if he's set up some kind of trap or spell. Gives him a chance to cast Mage Armor or some other kind of shield spell. Of course, it's bullshit if he casts Plot Armor for free.
Most Gms have at least an idea of what their BBEG's capabilities are. If he has integrity, he's going to stick with a BBEG that doesn't have arbitrary resources/powers that make it an ass pull for the players to ever hope to challenge it.
The last villain we fought was in a medical theatre when e monologed, I tried to rage my way through the glass and end it there, whatever it was was not normal glass, I bounced off and he continued smugly, the intend though was to make the players hate him even more
That's why you should only have a villain monologue from neutral if he genuinely believes he's doing the right thing and has a fairly compelling argument to support that. Otherwise, he projects his monologue throughout his entire lair as if with a loudspeaker, or he monologues during combat.
How do you feel about the BBEG doing something early on, then reappearing later? The PCs might challenge him, they might even have some effect (stop his current plans, drive him off, give him a nasty scar he won't forget), but he isn't a monster with statistics they can (realistically) hope to beat?
The first two adventures for D&D 5E both had dragons in them. In LMoP it was against a party of level ~3 PCs (possibly lower), in HotDQ it was against a party of level 1 PCs! Sadly neither dragon returns, but they were cool set pieces and it would be a fun, meaningful way to set up a campaign.
Whenever a villain starts monologuing, I take every opportunity to interrupt them, mock them, attack them even if I know it's completely pointless. Anything to ruin their moment. Acknowledgement is what the villain wants, so I make sure to never give it to them.
It's fine. Just don't bullshit an escape method for your BBEG.
The best methods I found is by making the guy apparently an ally earlier on before betraying the party;it really adds to the "fuck this guy really really hard" factor while also letting him be in safety once the party realises who's the one they should be punching.
I'd argue there ARE good ways to do the "can't attack the BBEG until he's done speaking". For instance, my last BBEG was an extremely flashy illusionist mage. When the players reached the end of the dungeon (the throne room of the castle of the kingdom he had usurped), they found a round table. Seated at that round table were twenty copies of himself, who started speaking in perfect unison. While the players kept firing arrows and casting spells at them to discover who was the 'real' one, they simply kept calmly speaking. Only after the whole speech was done did the bbg emerge from the secret balcony he was standing on.
I know it's kinda cliché, but it's a good way to convey the story to murderhobos who barge past every chance to discover WHY they are punching things.
I've ran the same game three times for three groups as a one-off. Only the third time did someone actually bother to look around, after a player lobbed an AOE spell that hit all illusions at once.
>Having the BBEG monologue instead of taking instant action, assuming he didn't escape the second tits were upwardly inclined
Well say the BBEG does have an escape plan if things go pear-shaped, what's the cut-off between bullshit and exciting?
If he goes into a secret door and simply disappears, I agree that's bullshit.
But say he's had the prep time, he goes into that secret door and juts it closed with an iron spike. The fighter rams it open after a few tries, the party makes it through and they can see the BBEG down the corridor. But they can ALSO see the Shield Guardian between them, designed to protect him if he had to flee. So they either give chase or deal with the Guardian...
So again, catching him is unlikely, but possible, or at least it feels possible. I'd personally make it possible (but again, unlikely) to kill the BBEG. But if he dies, his apprentice takes his place or something. Might seem cheap, but hey, it's better than throwing everything away. And his apprentice might handle things differently.
I dunno, that seems as bullshit as him just disappearing from the game for a few sessions.
Not that it isn't sensible, it's just not particularly exciting or rewarding for the players. I always think of these games like films: it's bullshit if the villain simply disappears only to reappear later, regardless of what the protagonist(s) did. Might as well just not have that scene.
Honestly, pretty much anything goes provided it's fair. You can go full Shane if you want the party to really hate him.
I'd mostly use two to three separate strategies for legging it, all confoundable, after which he's fair game.
>BBEG tries teleporting
>runs for a magically hidden door
>barbarian hurls a table at it/his path and blocks it off while the rest move to cut him off
>tries to clamber onto an elevating rope/platform
>player launches a flaming arrow and sets it on fire, or someone tackles him down
I've heard American homes don't even have a genkan. Shameful.
>the BBEG has a clone chamber set up and killing him only sets him back a ways; he in fact brags this fact to the heroes both before and after they kill him, and is in fact their primary opponent in most fights
How does he create an anti magic force field? Aren't force fields magical to begin with? And if there's science in the setting, why is the sound silencer I bought not shutting this guy up?
The actual magic part is an inch thick, WIDTH + 1", HEIGHT + 1", DEPTH + 1" for each side, around the antimagic area. That bit sucks all the magic out of the contained area like a vacuum.
Just have him monologue over speakers as the party works their way to his endboss room.
Our group does it all the time because otherwise it'd slow the game pace down to a crawl while the two powergamers take 10 minutes to elaborately plan out an attack strategy revolving around illusions for the 11th session in a row then moping when the DM makes the saves or throws anything at us with truesight.
>Game master obviously just wants his villain to give a speech
>Have character engage with him in conversation and try to convince him to change his mind
>This, shockingly, works sometimes
>Having his villain explain him/herself makes the GM happy regardless
Wow, it's as if there is a point to listening and speaking and not acting like a murderhobo or twat.
>enter a thread complaining about GMs who clearly read their players wrong and clumsily bullshit their way through
>whine about the poor oppressed GMs who this clearly doesn't apply to
"Enough with your empty words! Your deeds have already spoken for you, as ours have spoken for us. If you have anything else to say, then I am uninterested in hearing it, for if it truly mattered, you wouldn't have left it unsaid for so long. So come - and if you defeat me, then my eulogy can be whatever prattling you see fit.
Why are GMs so attached to their villains?
I don't think I've ever seen a player whose character dies and they say, "No, that doesn't happen!"
Stay neutral and stick to the rules. If a character hits, they deal damage. If the damage drops them to 0 hp (or whatever), they're dead or unconscious.
Even if the GM is supposed to be an omnipotent narrator, how many times has a GM said: "Oh, you're down to 0 hit points? Don't worry about it, you're fine. In fact, you're on 10 hit points."?
Run the game neutrally you fucks.
I've seen GM's do that tho.
Usually when monster math is poorly done. I mean how unfair is it to spend a whole session building a character and then the GM goes "I guess you die" because some fucktard at WoTC thought 3d10+7 damage was fine for a CR 3 monster.
That's fine either way as long as there's a case for it (BBEG's organization has the resources to resurrect him).
My problem is when the BBEG cannot die because he's "not supposed to". If he doesn't want to die, run him as someone who doesn't want to die. He scarpers as soon as he's badly injured. Then if some PC gets a lucky crossbow shot in, tough shit, he's dead, same as they would be.
I've seen GMs stoop that low.
Not even behind-the-scenes (upping the health, etc.).
Literally stuff like:
"You can't hit him."
"But I got a natural 20!"
"He has immunity to all damage."
"He teleports out the way before your attack hits."
"You hit him, now he's on 1,000 hp."
In some way I admire the transparency and ballsiness, but god damn.
Last time my players did that, I just had the BBEG discard everything he was about to say with a vaguely irritated look on his face, and then instead of ramping up the fight until the climactic finish as he had intended to do, he just opened fire with everything he had from the get go and mixed in tactics and weaponry that he hadn't used before due to a sense of fair play.
He was an honourable person, but if they weren't going to respect him, he wasn't going to respect their desire to not have lungs, feet and eyes full of poisonous acid and spikes. He also went for the squishiest members of the party first, which is something he hadn't done before.
End result: BBEG dead a turn or so earlier than he otherwise would be. Also, wizard is dead, ranger is dead, cleric is dying, fighter and paladin are alive but not in good shape at all. They didn't think it was worth it.
>Tricked and lured into a situation where have to marry a big evil dragon
>Not happy with the situation at all, and find out at the wedding that it wasn't even a necessary course of action, one of the party just pulled a fast one on me to get out of the situation themself
>Try to refuse and leave now knowing I've been betrayed and it's pointless
>Dragon grabs my character and holds him in place, intentionally nearly killing him from the pressure with a deadly look and an up welling of fire from her mouth and nostrils
>DM: "No Anon, you *are* getting married."
I get that it was for plot reasons at that point and ended up helping the game along, but I was never ok with it.
>TFW in the last two sessions my players have successfully ambushed and killed (or severely incapacitated by removal of all limbs and then captured) two major villains before they got to do any of the shit they got planned
I don't understand why you wouldn't let that happen. Now I get to have fun deciding what two major antagonistic organizations who've lost their leaders are gonna do.
>Not having the BBEG panic and splutter out a hasty wrap-up of his speech before bisecting the interloper in two with his greataxe, then privately beat himself up about it for the rest of the day
>hacking through his men as he sits on a balcony far above drinking wine
I like you.
"Now you shall meet thine demise! Behold --"
"Nobody says "thine" anymore, man."
"...I wrote this speech a thousand years ago, shut up!"
Also a good idea.
"You will be baked, and there will be cake."
My current DM is pretty good about this stuff.
> manage to secure a seat at the meeting where the city council will give audience to the BBEG
> they don't know he's evil, but we do
> ask him a loaded question that reveals his evil ways
> the council tells the BBEG to fuck off
> he gets mad, starts trying to mind control the council
> winds up dead before he got a chance to explain his grand plan
>have character charge in to attack him mid-sentence
>villain's simulacrum breaks his staff of the magi over his knee
>Bad guy starts monologuing
>Someone yells "CUT!" from somewhere
>Gnome in a very foppish hat waddles in to chew the PCs out for botching their cue
>someone starts fixing bad guy's makeup while he whines about having to deal with amateurs
>BBEG, who has been playing smarmy this whole time, just out and snaps
>Burns a high-level spell slot to give the offending player a magical bitch-slap of epic proportions
>"I've had ENOUGH of your petty resistance! I am as a GOD to you, and you will act as such in my presence!"
>"You will listen to my LIFE STORY if I demand it of you, you WORTHLESS WORM!"
>Surging with power, BBEG starts losing control of it in his rage
>"I will wipe you from the face of the earth- from the memories of civilization- FROM TIME ITSELF!"
>"YOU WILL NEVER HAVE BEEN! BEG FOR MY MERCY OR FACE OBLIVION!"
Idea for stealing, would most likely work best with an LE "dindu nuffin" who has their buffs set up beforehand:
>Party murderhobos their way through fortress/mansion/castle mooks
>Find BBEG sitting on a wooden rocker in front of a fireplace, writing something down in a book
>"The authorities will not be happy, do you really WANT them to have more work?" they ask sternly, still writing
>"I just had to ask because I've contacted the local law enforcement ever since I caught wind of you wanting to do something about me. If they don't hear from me in the next half-hour or so, they've been instructed to investigate my dwelling."
>Polite pause for if they want to say something
>"The thing is, the way I, and probably many others will see it, you all just barged onto my property, kicked my door down, and started threatening me. Not to mention the various bloodspatters suggesting that my hired staff are not at peak health at the moment."
>still writing in book
>"This is your chance to be civil, leave, and go through the proper channels, a formal letter of challenge would be refreshing. Otherwise a lot of people will be unhappy."
>Bookmarks page and places it on chair before standing and "officially" arming themselves
Inside the book is a written description of the party, complete with jabs if they seem too cliche. 'A dwarf with metal armor and a warhammer, I suppose they drink religiously as well.'
Has already sent an alert to said enforcers using the rocking chair as the tied-wire trigger for a fairly simple Rube Goldberg machine
Now they just have to survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive instead of having to pull a TPK nigh-single-handedly
>Party makes it to the supposed BBEG lair
>Overly friendly henchmen and BBEG surround us
>BBEG begins speech
>"Ah, welcome, I assume you're ready to join us. brothers?"
>Party member shoots him in the face
>BBEG dies instantly
>Examine his dead body, find letter
>He was a good guy all along.
>Henchmen free from his mind-control and proceed to tear us a new one.
What just happened /tg/?
Had something like this
>get to bbeg
>he starts monologue
>player says "i quack at him"
>everytime the bbeg starts talking, pc starts quacking at him
>welcome to my...
>I'm sorry i-
At the end the bbeg got pissed and started the fight. He got beaten but escaped before the PCs could kill him because my bbegs are not suicidal fucks
While he runs away, quacking pc shouts
>noot noot, motherfucker
See, if your players are mocking your BBEG like that it's time to step up the ridiculousness of the game. Have your BBEG stand up and walk away and exit through a door while he's being interrupted each time via duck quacks, and then burst through a wall in a mech suit.
"MOCK MEEEEE, WILL YOU?!"
>Party in BBEGs castle built on a kaiju
>Surrounded by guards party is brought to him.
>Ah! The brave heroes we meet agai-
>Gunslinger: I shoot him.
>Silence at table. Tell him to roll.
>Ends with party jumping out the window.
>Gunslinger was only player outside when I told the party the BBEG was legit trying to reward them.
They freed him from his imprisonment, killed his greatest rivals, had couriers bring him the mcguffin and burnt down the monastery that held the ancient tome that could banish him. They were better then his own generals.
When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.
BBEG even saved the life of the druids love interest and brought her there as part of the reward. If not for a trigger finger...
If you're gonna railroad the players into sitting through your villain's monologue, at least use the opportunity to make your villain actually seem powerful and intimidating.
If your players are gonna try to jump the rails and attack before you can get whatever dialogue you want out, have the BBEG block or counter their attack in some way that's actually impressive and shows their power, rather than just "no it doesn't work shut up".
Like, just off the top of my head, say your big bad is some mad stronk warlord motherfucker like Ganondorf.
>party fighter storms the throne mid-monologue, swinging wildly
>BBEG just calmly blocks his sword/axe/mace/whatever barehanded, still talking as he does so
>calmly stands up and boots the fighter right in the chest, sending him sprawling across the floor
See, look at that shit. It's still railroading, but it's at least more interesting then "no there was a forcefield". If you're gonna railroad, at least take the scenic route.
>When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.
That might be, I'm really curious though, my party members are so eager to shoot/stab things that I think I'm playing the game wrong.
this happens all the time in my campaigns
>crazy wizard NPC loses best friend goes mad with his own power and attempts to build a machine that'll boost him to god hood
>machine doomed to fail
> "please calm down your my friend"
>whelp the wizard is now sorry but has come too far but cant stop now
>we can help you if you let us
He was a literal demon with an undead hoard trying to conquer the world with force. None of which was hidden from the group.
Without knowing that part it sounds like he could have been a decent guy if the players didn't watch him fly around on air ships made of stretched human skins with faces still attached.
...I'm not a clever or subtle dm .
In D&D, if you roll a nat 20 for a skill check, it doesn't mean you automatically succeed. If you try to pickpocket a guard and you roll a nat 20, while the guard rolls a 15, but has a higher spot check because of his modifiers, you still get found out and arrested because you tried to pickpocket a guard.
Okay dudes, next time you discuss tactics mid-battle, every enemy gets an AOO.
Talking is a free action.
(I mean, not in the system I generally use, but both parties get all their monologuing done while doing their DBZ powerups in that one.)
If you're going to have a villain with the standard overwhelming power levels and then use it with 100% effectiveness as well as near omniscience as presumed by the list, you can just cut the chase and say "BBEG wins, gg no re"
In D&D rolling a 20 on an attack roll means you succesfully hit, even if their AC is high enough that it wouldn't be enough (dragon has AC 30, you have +5 attack bonus, 25 wouldn't be enough, but natural 20 hits him).
Some people by inertia expand this to skill checks, and then further expand the effects into doing literally any bullshit. "Flap your arms to fly" tier bullshit.
Additionally, normally rolling 20 is NOT an automatic crit, you need to confirm it by rolling again and beating their AC regularly on that second roll in order to deal crit damage. People forget that in stories too.
>my party members are so eager to shoot/stab things that I think I'm playing the game wrong.
You might be.
Or to be actually heplful, those are different ways to play the game. They have a likeness for one of them.
None of the ways are wrong, but it is wrong when the group, including players AND the gm, don't settle on the common ground.
I suggest trying to let all the complex plots go and running hack and slash for a little bit, see if you like it, see how much fun they have with you cooperating.
Then decide if you want to keep going with it or if you want to try and convince them to enjoy your way of complex plots and motivations.
Eh, it's ok in the system.
Smaug's missing scale and all that, you know?
(Although you still just poke him with your regular 1d8 bow damage, which he'll barely feel...)
It's the people that take already imperfect system and then wrong it some more that get really dumb.
>BBEG wants to be as dramatic as possible,
>Hires a "director" to make sure he is.
>Director coaches him and provides appropriate lighting, music, and occasionally make-up to assist in that
The Director is the real BBEG, the other guy was some boring guy who just wanted to be famous who the Director is taking advantage of to fulfill his goals.
The BBEG monologues at the PCs from all around them, since the BBEG's plan involves turning the world's leaders into clones of himself, and he started with his guards.
And the townsfolk outside his castle, but that's for when the PCs think they won and start leaving.
I had a DM do this to low level parties, with Assassins ten levels higher than them. In multiple campaigns.
The best part is that he had put the time and effort into making custom prestige classes for the cool shit the characters did. All he was doing was breaking the plot he himself had worked on.
He is no longer a DM... Which is a shame, because other than the uncontrollable murder boner, he actually was pretty cool.