What is the best cyberpunk game?

>>44850163
Eclipse phase

Just change the setting and restrict morph access

inb4 shadowrun. Fuck off guy desu

>>44850208
>Shit Phase
First post last post fuck this thread the cancer is already here

>>44850163
Gurps

>>44850223
What's your beef with the Phase?

I had fun with Cyberpunk 2020. But that is also the only cyberpunk game I've played.

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>>44850223
If you're going to be a baby about percentile dice and need your d20 hugbox pick up spycraft and get home brewing

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Cyberpunk 2020. Accept no substitutes.

On that note, I actually just downloaded a phone app called "Friday night firefights" which literally makes combat a single button press after adding the modifiers. Works like a charm.

>>44850249
Ehhhhh....no. GURPS Cyberpunk was probably the worst written book they ever made. I love GURPS, but the guy who wrote that should have been shot.

Cyberpunk 2020 has a very 80's cyber feel. There's one called Darkjogger or some shit that has amazing fluff if you can stomach spells and dragons and shit.

>>44850364
>help help I can't read someone save me from myself
every complaint about a GURPS book ever

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>>44850352
Dumping pics, because fuck yeah cyberpunk.

>>44850420
Real cyberpunk or just pretend

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>>44850402
>I bet these plebes see a doctor when they need brain surgery too! Its all in a book, go do it yourself!

Show me on the doll where GURPs touched you.

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>>44850163
Interface Zero is my current go-to Cyberpunk setting. It has all the familiar tropes, high technology contrasted with crime and poverty. Huge mega corporations that are above the law, and of course cyberware. However, the geopolitics of this future have been updated to be less dated and it one of the few settings that I've found willing to tackle contemporary social issues head on.

It also runs on Savage Worlds which is probably one of my favorite RPG systems.

>>44850402
>is it too complicated?
>>44850458
>>ITS TOO COMPLICATED

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>>44850449
A mix. Just insperational pictures.

For example, if I ever lost a finger, I'd totally mix the project from this pic...

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>>44850352
Really? Thanks, choombatta!

>developer is called Corven Dallas
Heh.

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>>44850488
Its just clunky, over engineered game design, that requires more time studying and processing than actually playing.

In the real world, this is what we call "bad".

>>44850495
...With this pic.

>>44850163
Real life...

>>44850163
Paranoia

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>>44850519
Muh choomba! Gotta pass on the TotL software.

>>44850535
We're not quite there yet. Getting close.

>>44850535
Pretty much. Just harder to get into real, well paying crime is all.

>>44850525
Your bomb pic would fail but good idea I suppose. C4 does not set off with heat.

>>44850581
Gropey, we have huge almost Megacorps that can get away with almost anything
Self-Driving cars are going to be the norm within 5 years
We already have mind controlled prosthetics, though admittedly in the prototype stages
We have killer drones and are on the early stages of virtual reality
Jaded and disenfranchised public with little faith in the government

What's missing? Really?

>>44850595
It's an electric pulse, isn't it?

>>44850675
Androids with emotional problems.

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My main problem with GURPS and Cyberpunk 2020 is how out of date is how out of date both are. Don't get me wrong, I love GURPs mechanics and Cyberpunk 2020's fluff, and have copies of both books, but when there are stats for fax machines in a setting set in the future, you know that there is something wrong.

Is there is something that is somewhat up to date that isn't Shadowrun(Yes, I own that game too. No, it isn't what I am looking for)?

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>>44850709
Well, if current research is any indication any actual truly sentient AI is quite possibly literally impossible. So that's pretty sad.

>>44850525
>>I lost a finger

>>if I lose more fingers I can add more explosive storage to my hand!!!!

???

>>44850688
Yep that is the number one benefit of c4 is that it is very stable. Will not go off in fire or heat. It needs an electric charge. Your pic would blow the powder and that's about it

>>44850747
>>make up a word
>>claim it's impossible

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>>44850736
As mentioned upthread, Interface Zero is a Savage Worlds-based game that's properly up-to-date circa mid-2015.

>>44850736
You know people use fax machines still, right?

>>44850736
There's Interface Zero for Savage Worlds, and there were a few GURPS Cyberpunk update things in Pyramid.

Cyberpunk for GURPS 4e never.

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>>44850595
Yes it does, if high enough. 90% of military and contracting blasting caps are electrical resistance based, igniting another combustible, which in turn sets off the plastique.

It is impact and radiation resistant, and can take high ambient temps.

Now GRANTED, the schematic is imperfect on purpose. In reality, it would be assembled as a fusehead electric cap.

>>44850675
Direct neural interface
Fourth stage body modification
Mirror shades returning to fashion

>>44850768
>Cyberpunk

>>44850736
But anon, the entire concept of Cyberpunk is (to many people) tied to the 80s. It's not about what we think the future might look like, it's about roleplaying in what the 80s thought the future would look like, hence why you have hackers typing super fast to hack into the mainframe on green and black terminal screens and you can connect to virtual reality through your phone.

GURPS is still a bad game with bad mechanics but the fluffy stuff is alright.

>>44850818
>Savage Worlds
Oh man, I have been meaning to try that. Thanks for the recommendation

>>44850819
I am sure that some do, but that is only the tip of the iceberg. The GURPS book for example lists dozens of different networks ranging from PKTelcom to IbPac, with the Internet itself just being one of them. That certainly doesn't reflect the reality of communications today, much less in thirty years.

>>44850919
>The GURPS book for example lists dozens of different networks ranging from PKTelcom to IbPac
Cyberpunk or Cyberworld?

>>44850905
Are you sure that you aren't confusing GURPS with CP? The GURPS Cyberpunk book itself doesn't really have much fluff being recommendations, unless you mean GURPS Cyberworld.

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>>44850886

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>>44850919
>The GURPS book for example lists dozens of different networks ranging from PKTelcom to IbPac

I remember when Shadowrun made a big deal out of ISDN and 64 kbit connections in the FAR FUTURE.
That's why cyberpunk (and scifi) games should never list particular technologies specifically. It just dates them very quickly.

>>44850886
>Neural interface
Just about anything you could do on a neural interface, you can do on a Surface.

>>44850937
Cyberpunk. Been meaning to read into Cyberworld later on.

>>44850402

Bullshit - it wasn't the grammar or sentences, it was that the fucking game mechanics - the programs and 'hacking' mechanism were fucking stupid; neither fun nor really cool. The idiot who wrote it knew what "real" (read - late '80s, early '90s) hacking was like and wrote the book that way to make it "more authentic". He forgot that reality is boring, and cyberpunk is about cool - remember Neuromancer was the gold standard for cyberpunk at that time, and still is to some degree. All he had to do was make it cool.

Instead he wanted "real" hacking. The result was a shit book, and SJGames computers seized by feds in the process.

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>>44851191
I concur. That book was dry as hell and since it doesn't come with a setting, it came off as just a bunch of overly-specific computing jargon mashed together with some scifi concepts.

I'd rather have read the Rainbow manuals. And did.

>>44851191
Now I'm even more convinced you're stupid.

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>>44850163
Other games out there:

SLA Industries
Interface Zero
Corporation
Wyred
Zaibatsu
Transhuman Space
Remember Tomorrow
Karbon
Underground
Tales from the Sprawl
ICE Cyberspace
Gurps Cyberworld
Gurps Cyberpunk
Digital Shades
Ghost/Echo
Modempunk
Android Netrunner

and Viral was working on an Androids RPG.

>>44851355
Cyberworld and Cyberpunk are two halves of the same thing.

ANR is not an RPG.

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Hello fellow COMPUTER CRIMINALS!

>>44851382
OP never said RPG, just game. There are a decent amount of Cyberpunk traditional games out there.

>>44851384
I like the guy on the right's cyber-hat.

>>44851294

Awww, c'mon man! You have to do better than that!

Ya see, son, that's whats called an "Ad Hominem" logical fallacy - its when a person has nothing to say so they just go "Ur stoopid!" Here's a source for you, I'm sure you can google the big words - https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Let me know if you want to address the substance of the argument - and incidentally its backed up in part by SJGames own account. The rest I got from an ebook on "Operation Sun Devil", I believe.

Fucking tard.

>>44850905

People who think cyberpunk is limited to the future by the way of 70's and 80's, are the same people that would say that the Illiad is boring ancient shit without any modern-day relevance.

Growing economic inequality, the dehumanizing effects of technology, rebelliousness in the form of negativity/cynicism, transhumanism, etc. are themes which are equally relevant today, as they were when Neuromancer was first published. The only reason cyberpunk is "stuck" in the 80's is because people have a nostalgic wish to emulate the style/aesthetics, without even trying to understand the underlying ideas.

>>44851454
Maybe if you actually laid out your argument better than 'it's too complicated and I don't like it'.

>>44851499
Are the words "It's not actually fun because the writer tried to make hacking 'realistic'" too long for you?

>>44851522
You still aren't telling me exactly what the problem is. 'It's not fun because realism' could mean any number of things.

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Less arguing about nothing, more pictures.

So in an updated cyberpunk world, would corporations still be the big,bad guys or would nasty governments like China and Islamic terrorism still be greater threats?

>>44850675
Huge abandoned industrial slums?

>>44851538
Not him, but a lot of people find actual computer coding tedious and boring.

>>44851583
>industrial
That might be tricky, but the favelas of Brazil have the slum bit covered, along with India.

>>44851570
There is no reason why we can't have both

Shadowrun still has Islamic terrorists running around murdering people, but Megacorps effectively control the world. The only real underlaying thing that needs to be updated IMO is the tech. Add exciting things in like self driving cars and smartphones.

>>44851355
You can probably throw in a couple of others such as Ex Machina, a|state, Fates Worse Than Death, Blue Planet, the 2020 spin-offs, ...

And if you do count Netrunner, then it opens up the other appropriately themed card-/board-/wargames, all of which can be used to enable rpg-style play as well...

>>44851538
Ah, you haven't read the book recently. Read it now. GURPS Cyberpunk's core problems were that the 1) the hacking mechanic sucked (because he tried to make it 'realistic' yet 'cyber') and 2) the rest of the world was uninspired and boring - weak cyberware, weak lifestyles, and why the fuck did gyrojet pistols become a thing? The first can be forgiven if the rest was good - just look at Shadowrun 3rd. The combination of the two is fatal.

>>44851658
>the hacking mechanic sucked
I still have no idea what you mean.

>>44851620
We lack the aesthetic that a lot of people like cyberpunk for, and we never got the huge development growth everyone expected prior to the economic collapse.

But yes, socially, we're very much headed into a cyberpunk type future. Once the police become privatized it'll be far more like it.

>>44851538
Oh god, are you one of those "Fun is a buzzword!" creeps?

>>44851811
Where in the fuck are you getting that from?

>>44851583
>>44851736
Alex, what is Detroit?

>>44851834
Not even the guy you're talking to, but you don't seem to understand that people have different opinions. If YOU think it's good, then EVERYONE has to agree with you.
Several other people share the opinion that the rules are bad for being too "realistic" and you're just stomping around going "I NO UNDERSTAND! PEOPLE NOT LIKE THING I LIKE? THEY WRONG!"

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>>44851890
I don't understand what he is complaining about, which is why I'm asking him to tell me.

If it's just the hacking having too many moving parts, then there's this sidebar.

>>44851857
Haven't been there. That is tempting. Would have to figure out a way to make money if I'm gonna set up a runner's den, though.

I'm not callous enough to be a cutter, i think.

>>44851972
Some people don't like GURPS. You do. Why does it matter? You made your recommendation and he asked for something else. Let it go.

>>44850747
It's absurd that people talk about sentient machines being impossible when we all walk around with 3 pound fully organic versions.

>>44850784
He was never quite the same after Scoob died.

>>44851994
I need to know where these complaints are coming from to see if I need to do anything about them if I ever use the book.

Reality in five years.

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>>44851638
>Shadowrun still has Islamic terrorists running around murdering people, but Megacorps effectively control the world.

Right, but what if China (or Chinese state corporations) actually run the world. Or what if Islamics enable sharia law across large parts of the world? What if a Caliphate arises that sucks in most of the Muslim world, as posited in Transhuman Space? Would that still be cyberpunk?

I'm just getting a little bored of the megacorps threat and want something different.

>>44852134
Check out the new rpg for Infinity. It's more post-cyberpunk, but the entire setting is heavily GiTS inspired.

>>44852272
>Check out the new rpg for Infinity.
Only the quickstart is currently out, and it doesn't have character creation rules.

>>44852335
There's a whole bunch of new pdfs in the general, i haven't looked at em yet, still taming my new phone. But i think there was something on hackers and FOs

>>44852393
Those are all wargame, not rpg.

>>44852431
Damn.

>>44852452
Yeah, Backerkit seems to be being weird about the Lifepath chapter.

>>44851384
man, everyone thought that everybody was gonna be driving helicopters everywhere in the future

why couldn't that future have come

>>44851433
>>44851384
What I wanna know is why that squad of future cops just seem to be wearing whatever. No uniform, no badge of authority?
How do we know they're cops and not breaking into a guys house to take his stuff?

>>44850263
Something SJW probably.

>>44851999
Except our brain isn't a machine and can't be simulated by machines and this is the whole problem.

>>44852557
Jesus Christ, really?

>This thing exists in nature, but it's LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to replicate it, because it's so ~*~*~special~*~*~.

>>44852557
>and can't be simulated by machines
Ok, so I KNOW what you mean, but you should be more clear with your speech. Because it can. And is. Constantly. Are you looking at a computer screen right now? It's being stimulated by a machine. Have you ever gotten a zap from a machine? It's being stimulated. Are you breathing and a machine happens to be nearby? In some way, that machine, making noise or just being seen by you, is in a way stimulating your brain.

>>44852590
The main problem is the amount of time required to replicate it with human intention.

I mean, the two ways we could do it is a self-improving program or just by growing brain tissue for processing power.

>>44852608
Oh damn, sorry, read your post as STIMULATED, not simulated.

>>44852590

I guess these guys should just give up 4chan says it can't be done eh?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Brain_Project

>>44850352
holy shit that guy must have done a lot of cocaine

>>44852628
>I Don't Know What I'm Talking About: The Post

>>44852557
>the only intelligence that exists is human
Christ, robots as good at general intelligence as a random pet animal would change the world already.

>>44852651
Cocaine is great, and that app, unfortunately, isn't on the play store.

>god damn it i have to put forth EFFORT?!

>>44852590
What you refuse to understand is that it's NOT the same thing. Insisting it is only makes comprehending the brain HARDER. Yeah sure i guess cell depolarization and repolarization create something conceptually similar to binary language (each cell either says 0 or 1 at any ho en moment) but it all also depends on non simulable shit (like the way in wich milions of neurons adjust each other's message to create coherent movements in the cerebellum... nothing we can do with machines is even similar) or hormonal regulation.
It's either impossible or so far away in the future it might as well be, if we assume a LOT of things about neuroscience.

>>44852700
Impossible too for the same reasons.

>>44852632
They're trying to do something qualitativelly different form what you want.

>>44852752
*at any given moment

>>44852752
>I don't even know how artificial intelligence will work but if I spew some shit about binary I can pretend I do! Science and technology are stagnant because I said so!

If you're just going to be a fucking Luddite why are you even posting in a thread about cyberpunk?

>>44852752
That depends entirely on how you define intelligence. The current goal, from my understanding, is to develop an algorithm that can simulate the intuitive leaps that the human mind makes. Once we have a system to do that reliably, i think we'll be well on the way to sentient AI. Though I wouldn't hold out hope for more than simulation of emotions.

Though i guess once we hit tbe point where it can intuitively guess what emotion would be appropriate, it'd be a good enough substitute for the real thing.

>>44852802
The moment you'll stop putting bullshit they didn't say in people's mouth, will be the moment you'll discover actual conversation.
>>44852828
So you agree with me there's a qualitative difference between how our brain works and how a machine must work, and we don't even fully understand each of the two factors.

>>44852922
The moment you start saying something other than "But it's DIFFERENT guys!" is when there will be an actual conversation.

A brain is not special and your insistence that it is outs you as an idiot.

>>44852965
Except it is. Proof: You've getting mad over the internet. Go code a program that does the same.
While you're there also code something that censors your posts each time you write a logical fallacy.
That would mean never posting again but heh.
Jokes aside: no; the brain is not "special" it's just infinitelly complex and not the whole story.

>>44852922
Yes there's a qualitative difference, biochemical reactions vs electronic. However, all biochemical reactions can be simulated electronically. We understand how they work, it's nust a matter of finding a way to code it that doesn't take up as much space.

And it's likely to be successfully done within the next 20 years. Possibly less if that crazy russian follows through with his plans.

The big problem we have right now is in getting an algorithm that will take the processes & results from past experiences and apply them to unrelated situations. We've had semi-intuitive limited AI for a while now, after all.

>>44853034
>However, all biochemical reactions can be simulated electronically. We understand how they work
>We understand how they work
Except we don't. The Neurosciences are a very "We're trying to figure out what the fuck is going on, and we're making SOME progress... slowly." field.

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>>44853013

>>44853013
Throughout this entire thread you've demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of the difference between software and hardware. Case in point, you just told me to write a program (software) that functions like a brain (hardware).

If you can't even tell those two apart, you have no business talking about AI.

Plus you keep saying there's a "qualitative difference" between things but have not offered any explanations. You literally just keeping saying "Things are different!" over and over again.

>>44853034
>The big problem we have right now is in getting an algorithm that will take the processes & results from past experiences and apply them to unrelated situations.
Something we don't understand how works in the brain.
>all biochemical reactions can be simulated electronically.
Clearly they can simulate each chemical reaction in a vacuum ,never said the opposite. I'm just skeptical we can simulate everything that's happening at once with all the bilions of effects each reaction has to the whole reaction environment. Also see we supposed to brute force it with just One processor/ a limiterà number of processors? Because each NEURON is a processor...
Can something simulate something orders of magnitude bigger than itself, that interacts with itself in ways it doesn't even understand?

>>44853171
*Limited

>>44853168
So in your opinion "getting angry" is something that happens because there's a specific pièce of brain that makes you angry on command, rather that an indescriveably complex cascade of chemical reactions interpreted in a specific way by... Something we don't know. I tought Phrenology went out of style.

>>44853168
>>(you) have not offered any explanations.
I haven't done anything but.

>>44853228
You realize those chemical reactions are all physical things, right?

Unless you're trying to argue you don't need a physical brain for these processes to occur in.

>>44853247
Argumentum ad lapidem isn't an explanation.

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>>44850208
Eclipse phase is just super transhumanism

It doesn't have the nearfuture feel that cyberpunk has.

I'd say Interface Zero, but only because I feel its a streamlined Cyberpunk 2020 (so go with that one)

>>44850208
>>best cyberpunk rpg
>this one... just change it to cyberpunk
ok......

>>44852029
:(

Cyberpunk 2020.
Is, in my opinion,
The best
Cyberpunk RPG,
Under the simulation category
But also pretty fair under
Standard RPG category

>>44851999
It really isn't, at all. If you handed a medieval peasant a smartphone the fact they had a sample on hand wouldn't actually make the job of replicating it any easier really.

>>44852802
>luddite
Why in the fuck do you people keep on using this word so fucking wrong! Is it just one fucking idiot who keeps on doing it over and over again again when I happen to be here! LEARN WHAT WORDS MEAN YOU FUCKING IDIOT!

>inb4 hurr durr u mad
AT LEAST I'M NOT A FUCKING MORON WHO CAN'T USE THE WORD LUDDITE PROPERLY LIKE YOU!

>>44853777
What's the matter Ned, the stocking frames misbehaving again?

>>44853824
Could you explain the joke I'm just really confused now.

>>44853846
Ned Ludd, the man from which the Luddite movement takes its name, smashed a pair of stocking frames (mechanical knitting machines) because they were taking his job, or something.

>>44853846
Clearly you don't understand all the meanings of the word.

And i don't understand why there's so much pessimism on /tg/ lately. Have hope in the future, let people dream of the tomorrow they want.

Cause today's shit.

>>44854009
Not him - I did not want to get involved in the debate up to this point, since both of you have been terribly wrong and I suspected this would not go anywhere: but the reason why people are sceptical is because they pay attention to what is going on. It's very simple: neurology and A.I. modeling have been stagnating for several decades (neurology has been stagnating for almost a century, in fact), and so far, just about every major optimistic prediction about where the technology will go as been WRONG. There is literally NO REASON to assume that we'll suddenly crack up the connectom and have human-like A.I. in the next 20 years.

>>44850208
Eclipse phase is a cosmic horror, not cyberpunk.

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>>44851658

GURPS Cyberpunk is outdated and aside from the updated netrunning hasn't been touched in 4E.

Because Transhuman Space is the actual cyberpunk setting for GURPS, and nowadays it's a lot more in line with what people want from cyberpunk - it has the clean aesthetic in the rich nations, and the grungy cybernetics in the poor.

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>>44850208
Is eclipse phase the game that suggests playing as a loli sexbot? No thanks, I'll take my shadowrun over that crap anyday. Plus percentiles are way worse than dicepool

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>>44850163
Cyberpunk doesn't mean the same thing whether you live in the 20th or 21th century.

21th Century's Cyberpunk is post-modernism and transhumanism. 20th Century's Cyberpunk is uchronia and retrofuturism. The main aspect that didn't change with time is the first theme of Cyberpunk : Victims of the New.

So ask yourself what games translates this idea better, and you'll have a cyberpunk game.

-Cyberpunk 2020 is retro as fuck but got the feel right, without any thought or substance behind it tho. The system is broken as fuck but fun to play if you don't mind that.

-Shadowrun was cyberpunk plus high fantasy (1E-3E), and is now sci-fi plus urban fantasy (4E-5E).

-Remember Tomorrow got the feel even better than CP2020 and isn't retro or clunky. It's a story game though, not an RPG. So good if you like strict mechanics and guidelines for doing a specific style of Cyberpunk stories (small fishes in a big pond).

-Savage World Cyberpunk, GURPS Cyberpunk/Transhuman Space are their own things, but don't really get the social part. The tech is interesting, but that's about it.

-Technoir is fucking awesome, but doesn't give you more than evocative stuff to work with as far as themes are concerned, meaning you should know your Gibson & K. Dick if you want to do it "right".

I think I covered the basics, other games might be a bit too far from the point.

>>44854424
Suggests no, allows yes.

>>44854424
Also a giant crab with a jet pack and psychic powers. Eclipse Phase is a deeply confused game.

>>44854424
Oh, that reminds me, I'm taking the "neonate" disadvantage for loli rigger orc for my next shadowrun 5E game.

>>44850352
Gimme.

>>44850483
Not to big on Savage World's system, but I'm interested in the setting. Mind delving upon the contemporary issues it tackles with?

>>44850985
Except, you know, getting your brain fried by Black ICE. That's how the world is. What we gain in practicality
, we lose in horrible-coolness.

>>44851355
Don't know SLA Industries, Wyred, Karbon, Underground, Digital Shades.

Corporation isn't Cyberpunk, it just has Cybernetics and Corps, but it's mainly a superhero game with an edgy feeling. And god is the system stupid. Zaibatsu like the mini-game? It's good and it's Cyberpunk as satire yeah. Ghost/Echo isn't Cyberpunk, it's Fantasy Steampunk.

>>44854449
>It's a story game though, not an RPG.

What is the difference?

Having played the Blades in the Dark prerelease stuff, i think Null Vector is going to be basically perfect.

>>44854541
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/6517/roleplaying-games/roleplaying-games-vs-storytelling-games

I think this guy explains it best.

>>44854449
Technoir seems cool as fuck, any PDFs out there?

Can't find anything.

Interface Zero is the only Cyberpunk game I've ever seen that dares touch the question of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Hell, it has an adventure set in the region. That's one of only 4 games I know that does that, and one of them is so obscure I doubt that the writers know about it.

File: Technoir.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>44854680

File: Technoir - High-tech, Hard-boiled Roleplaying.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>44854680

File: Technoir - Player's Guide.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>44854701
>>44854705

>>44854696
Ok now I'm interested. Do I really need to run it using SW though?

>>44854722
You either run it using SW, or you spend the time to convert everything over to something else, maybe GURPS or FATE.

>>44854701
thanks so much ;3

>>44854735
Oh well, time to read Deluxe again then.

>>44854748
Your're welcome.

>>44854505
The one thing about it I will say was really cool was the robot insect hive. That would make one sick ass assassin build. Sneaking through tiny cracks and air vents to murder people.

>>44854679
Makes sense. What is Ars Magica? It's got that troupe stuff, too.

Why are /tg/ cyberpunk threads so consistently awful?

>>44854812
Ars Magica is like, you're a cabal of wizards in a fantasy medieval world that's more historical than fantasy, and myths are real. And like there are wizard politics and magic duels called certamen and you try to make your cabal strive but there are others bigger than you who want the same thing and will try to screw you to get it. If you've played Mage the Ascension, the magic system is kinda like that, except everyone is an Hermetic Mage but can do far more stuff than just fireballs.

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>>44854848
Because we argue endlessly about 2 things:
1. Thing X is/isn't cyberpunk!
2. Technology Y will/won't happen!

I'd like to see more creative ideas about how to run cyberpunk adventures or how to make players relate more to the genre.

Or neat house rules that improve the game.

>>44854902
Right, but is it a roleplaying game? You have multiple characters and switch GMs like in Remember Tomorrow, but not as often and it's more fixed.

>>44854941
That's a fuzzy one. I'd call it a roleplaying game since it's guidelines are not on how to actually "make it work", but on how to deal with the specificity (and novelty, at the time) of troupe play.

>>44851191
>SJGames computers seized by feds in the process.
wait what

>>44855493
Loyd Blankenship got in contact with actual hackers for his research on GURPS Cyberpunk. The Secret Service found out, raided SJG HQ, nicked the computers with the Cyberpunk drafts on them, and claimed the book was a 'manual for cybercrime' or some shit.

>>44854938

We had a thread like that the other day. It died after about 20 posts. No one here actually has any interest in cyberpunk, they are just using it as proxy to start an argument that boils down to "stop liking/disliking what I dislike/like". Starting the thread with a dumb question like "What's the best system for X" doesn't help either.

>>44850525
>Not "flash(powder) drive" or "USBoom key"

You had one job, anon.

>>44850886
>Yes it does, if high enough. 90% of military and contracting blasting caps are electrical resistance based, igniting another combustible, which in turn sets off the plastique.
I hate people like you. You think you know shit, but you don't. C4 is temperature insensitive. The resistive element in blasting caps sets off a temperature sensitive explosive and the resulting small explosion sets off the C4. Also, C4 and plastique are entirely different compounds.

>>44850736
Cyberpunk 2020 is great PECISELY because of how outdated it is, in my opinion.

>>44856772
mechanics are outdated and clumsy too, unfortunately.

>>44856787
You win some, you lose some. The campaign of CP2020 I got to play was a blast. Hunting down pedophilic Russian gangsters has never been so much fun!

>>44850535
Get an American law degree.
Practice with firearms and learn Chinese in your spare time.
Move to Hong Kong.
Become a translator and consigliere for a Triad boss.

I still love the fuck out of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtRw1YzMnv0

>>44854449
Nothing about the pdf's posted strikes me as particularly belonging to Philip K. Dick, in terms of style. Dick deals with things like the perception of reality, and what makes a person a person, things like that.

Honestly, his style seems more suited for Eclipse Phase, with its destroyed Earth, unknowable AI enemy, totalitarian governments, and body-hopping.

File: cyberpunk is real.png (45KB, 1565x392px) Image search: [Google]

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>>44850535

>>44857310
Don't forget Europe being a populist nightmare where politics are entirely based on emotions, and where the ruling class has such a firm grip on the media that they manage to cover up mass sexual assault at a public festival. While at the same time one of most powerful forces in one nation's politics is a fucking website, which is directly influencing national politics to the point of forcing a referendum that has the EU shaking in its boots.

>>44857052
God damn it. I respect the whole "Ready when it's ready!" Thing, and I think it'll be a great games, but it's been 3 years! Give us SOMETHING!

>>44857052
But the music is still shit. Perturbator set it to his Future Club track and the result was fucking amazing

>>44857551
I've seen it set to Electric Youth's A Real Hero, that was good.

>>44850208

Eclipse Phase is transhumanist, not cyberpunk. And it doesn't even do its own genre well. Plus the shit players it attracts.

Cyberpunk 2020, followed by GURPS Cyberpunk, then Shadowrun. If you want cyberpunk with fantasy elements, then reverse that order.

>>44850208
>likes EP
>hates SR
...you know that EP is literally just Shadow Run, but fast forwarded to the more distant future, right?

>>44858041
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

>>44858071
Too bad it's true.

So do you know about SR's Epochs? The whole ending of the Mayan calendar starts a new world...this new world happens to see magic ascendent (and prior epochs where magic was ascendent are where we get our myths from)...eclipse phase is set in the beginning of the next epoch where magic has waned.

>>44857431
I know the first one but what's the last one?

>>44850364

Secret Service gtfo.

SJGames was raided by the secret service in the early 90s and this book was confiscated. It turned out to be related to something else, but the US Attorney called it a "manual for cybercrime". Written by an actual hacker.

OK so in fairness to each his own. It's for 3rd Ed GURPS, which admittedly is a mess. But still fucking awesome IMO if you adapt it to GURPS Fourth edition.

>>44857431
Your interpretation of the EU is stunningly off base.

>>44858188
>It's for 3rd Ed GURPS, which admittedly is a mess.
I hear this a lot, is it because multiple authors had to create rules for something because it wasn't in the core, and none of them made the same thing?

>>44858188
>but the US Attorney called it a "manual for cybercrime". Written by an actual hacker.

A cyber security textbook, even if it's a good and legit one, is not a good thing when you're looking for a Cyberpunk RPG module. Neuromancer would have been a lot worse off if half of it had been in-depth technical explanations of various buffer overflow exploits.

>>44858280
It only got called that because the US Attorney was about as computer-literate as a hamster. It's not really any more complicated than CP2020's net rules.

>>44850163
I think this thread is appropriate for these question.
1.For someone who never played Shadowrun, which edition should one get?

2.Also, among vidya set in shadowrun universe, which are good?

>>44858305
The SR general would be your best bet for those questions, especially the first.

>>44858305
The Harebrained games (SR Returns/Dragonfall/Hong Kong) are good, as is the SNES one.

Probably 4E? If there's a Shadowrun General up you could ask them.

>>44858243
>typical fact-free, politically motivated naysaying

I live in the EU, you fucking moron. Of course, because you're denying literal FACTS, you probably don't. You just saw something that said maybe things aren't completely hunky-dory, and we can't have that, of course.

>>44858159
The Dutch referendum about Ukraine.

>>44854535
It's not afraid to touch on issues like the rise of the extreme Right and religiously motivated warfare. The USA fell after a civil war caused by the absolute worst elements of the extreme right seizing control of the government.

Islam doesn't fare much better. Israel and it's neighbors as well as India and Pakistan get into a "limited" nuclear war that causes a nuclear autumn and nearly ends life on earth. Earths ecosystem is only beginning to recover from this event, often referred to as "the Death."

So in addition to fighting evil megacorporations, you can pit your PCs against religious fanatic paramilitaries.

If you're not a big fan of Savage Worlds, the setting is also available for True 20 and a FATE edition is being playtested.

>>44858474
By "it" I mean Interface Zero.

>>44850838
I read somewhere that North Korea sends threats to South Korea via fax.

>>44858474
Wow. Which books of interface zero covers all this? Is it available in the corebook?

>>44854941
Any definition of roleplaying game which does not include Ars Magica is either a specific jargon term being used in a specialised context, and thus not universally applicable, or junk.

>Cyberpunk is supposed to be the future as imagined in the 80s/90s!
>Cyberpunk is supposed to be the future as imagined right now!

Can you weenies please stop this?
Full 1990s retro-futurism is just as valid as modern dystopian parables. There's no ONE TRUE CYBERPUNK.

>>44856772
It has some bits which seem outdated, and are, but are kinda ahead of their time - IIRC you could buy newspapers that'd be printed on the spot for you, which sounds dumb and lol, but they'd be customised with articles from a variety of sources in a way that seems more like a selection of posts from your rss feeds than the generic newspaper most people think of. Custom aggregated content... delivered by basically a fax machine.

To borrow a term from comics, it's schizotech.

>>44858407
>Europe being a populist nightmare
Wrong. The EU has been extensively criticized for its undemocratic nature and failure to account for popular will.
>politics are entirely based on emotions
Wrong. Most policy in the EU is developed in a highly technocratic fashion, which has contributed to concerns about the EUs undemocratic nature. The politics of some nations in some areas is driven by emotional thinking but there are many dozens of nations of Europe and this is not true of most of them.
>and where the ruling class has such a firm grip on the media that they manage to cover up mass sexual assault at a public festival
Clearly they have a pretty poor grasp on the mass media given that they totally failed to cover anything up and the whole world knows about it.
The reasons for Europe being so shit at the moment are totally unrelated to your 'facts' because your 'facts' are hysterical misunderstandings.
The only claim you made with any basis in reality is that Europe has a powerful elite. Well guess what, everyone has one of those, always had.
Also none of your claims about Europe (if they were true) would make the world more cyberpunk, just generically more dystopic.

>>44858748
>popular will.
This is a weasel word that just doesn't sound as pejorative as "mob rule"

>>44857551
>>44857676
That's an amazing refit, nice work Perturbator:
\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el_wn6I5MQk

>>44858748
>Wrong. The EU has been extensively criticized for its undemocratic nature and failure to account for popular will.

Look at you, you little faggot. You say "wrong" like you're right, when you can't even get your bloody facts straight.

EUROPE =/= THE EU. You dumb motherfucker.

>Wrong. Most policy in the EU is developed in a highly technocratic fashion, which has contributed to concerns about the EUs undemocratic nature. The politics of some nations in some areas is driven by emotional thinking but there are many dozens of nations of Europe and this is not true of most of them.

This isn't a proper argument, either. You don't even use any examples. I mean, look at the recent elections in France, where the left told their followers to vote for the right in order to keep the FN out of office. How is that not emotion-driven politics? Or Cameron trying to ban Trump from the UK. How is that not emotion-driven politics?

>Clearly they have a pretty poor grasp blahblahblah

Honestly, I've never seen a solid argument following this ad hominem. Where to start? No, nigger, they didn't fail. They kept it under wraps for half a fucking year, which is pretty impressive on its own, considering the dozens of perpetrators and victims, and the public location. But it only came out when the media renewed their interest after the Cologne attacks. Which means that if they wanted, it would STILL be covered up.

You are a fucking idiot who managed to get everything wrong about a two-sentence post. I don't even know how you did it, but it's a fucking crime mongoloids like you actually get to vote.

You're the sort of person who would drown in a shallow pond.

>>44858949
>But it only came out when the media renewed their interest after the Cologne attacks. Which means that if they wanted, it would STILL be covered up.
Clearly their firm grasp is firm. Unless it's not firm, in which case it isn't firm. This was a coverup by a police department in Stockholm, and they still couldn't keep it for more than a year. Motherfucker, it took decades for us to hear about Operation Gladio or Propaganda Due and you hold up political angst over brown skinned motherfuckers giving white supremacists ammunition as an example of a grand success by shadowy elites?

That's not impressive, that's pathetic.

>You are a fucking idiot who managed to get everything wrong about a two-sentence post. I don't even know how you did it, but it's a fucking crime mongoloids like you actually get to vote.
Weren't you just ranting about ad hominems?

>>44858925
I'm sorry but none of the motives fit. There's no emphasis where there needs to be, no tension, no relief. The only thing that works about it is it's electronic music. I'm not saying that there's not some better music in this style for that trailer, but it's not that piece. The original was much better. Go back, watch the original and note how you feel the music (not whether you like it or not, that's subjective taste and you're free to dislike that song, I'm talking about the link between the visuals and the pattern of tension in the song.

>>44858570
You really have to get both the first and second edition SW books to get this. The Second Edition book doesn't have a timeline, for example, or explain the in-universe history.

The updated timeline for 2.0 is okay, but it's making me worried that the Arab-Isreali conflict has been retconned out.

>>44859101
Ah, so there it is. You're butthurt because you think this is about your silly politics. You'll note that I never pointed the finger to any one side. I just said that the establishment is actively influencing the media and police in order to cover up that are not favourable for them. Which is exactly what they did, and which is also exactly what you would expect from Cyberpunk politics. Hence the example. Take your bullshit to /pol/.

>Weren't you just ranting about ad hominems?

So you don't know what an ad hominem is? Stay retarded, familia.

>>44859107
>muh feels
Yeah nah bro, it fits perfectly. Far better than Generic Shit With Vaguely Rebellious Lyrics

>>44859163
>which is also exactly what you would expect from Cyberpunk politics
It's exactly what I'd expect from all politics - leaders and the wealthy use their power to make themselves look less bad, but aren't very good at it, news at eleven.
It's as old as politicians and the rich, why would it change?

>>44859214
It's not really
>muh feels
I'm sorry, I don't have the the technical vocabulary to properly describe what I'm talking about, but from technical point of view, the original works far, far better.

>>44859239
>I can't put it into words but trust me it's better
kek
It doesn't fit the neo-80s cyberpunk setting half as well. Perturbator does.
Frankly he should be asked to do the entire game's soundtrack too, like Power Glove were with Blood Dragon

>>44859107
>>44859239
It's shorter and a little bit less comprehensible than the original trailer but the tension is far better. The music isn't as repetitive and lines up better with the visuals

>>44859290
>Frankly he should be asked to do the entire game's soundtrack too, like Power Glove were with Blood Dragon
Agreed. Power Glove for BD was great too, fit like a glove.

>>44854449
>GURPS Cyberpunk/Transhuman Space are their own things, but don't really get the social part. The tech is interesting, but that's about it.

Are you kidding?

Most of THS is the social part. There's as much for diplomats and memeticists to do as any combat monster or hacker. Several of the books are mostly about the social issues and actions of the setting and how players can interact and influence it.

>>44859345
>Power Glove
>fit like a glove

You had to go there, huh anon?

>>44859290
>It doesn't fit the neo-80s cyberpunk setting half as well
It's not necessarily neo-80s.
I'm not going to argue the musical style doesn't fit as well, but that doesn't matter as much as how the motives (motifs if you want to use the wrong pluralization) fit the the visuals.

Anachronism in music doesn't matter much at all in scoring a visual piece. Take for instance Ride of the Valkyries in Apocalypse Now.

>>44859372
Oh man. It's Cyberpunk 2020/2077, by default it's rooted in the late 80s view of cyberpunk.

>>44859395
Because Witcher was very much Tolkienesque.

In any event, I think you have a distorted view of what early cyberpunk actually thought...or more to the point that it was unified under pink mohawk.

>>44859420
It wasn't. CP2020 definitely was. Have you even read the fucking books?

>>44859442
>It wasn't. CP2020 definitely was. Have you even read the fucking books?
Yes I have and I'm not sure that you're on target thinking it's pink mohawk. You can run it pink mohawk just like you can SR, but that's not the core of it. In any event, have you not thought for a moment that the fact that they're calling it 2077 instead of 2020 might indicate that there's updating of the ideas, themes, and setting? Full on pink mohawk won't fly these days in a market as large as CDPR wants.

>>44858949
Since almost every important nation in Europe is a member of the EU I feel that my assumption was pretty fair.
Also if you are talking about the continent of Europe and not the EU then your claim that Europe is a populist nightmare is even stupider. Its like claiming the entire economy of South America is in recession.

http://www.iop.harvard.edu/europe-between-technocracy-and-democracy here is one of many, easily available accounts of the EUs technocratic nature.

The left telling people to vote for a more moderate right wing party to prevent them getting into power is not emotional. Voting for the least worst viable option is common practice and is entirely rational.

Cameron has said the exact opposite. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3362449/Donald-Trump-divisive-stupid-wrong-shouldn-t-ban-Britain-says-David-Cameron.html
The ad hominem I used was to say that you were hysterical so I'm not sure what you mean here.

Also>>44859101 is someone else

>>44859501
90% of the expansions and splats were bigger guns, full-body prosthesis that made you effectively a walking tank, and you think that's not pink mohawk as fuck. Okay.
Also by your definition Blade Runner's score makes it "pink mohawk" too, which is retarded as fuck.

And they can't fuck it up or change it too much or risk alienating die-hard CP2020 fans, who are probably still in that demographic.

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>>44859609
>die-hard CP2020 fans
All 12 of them. Plus the 7 guys that hang out on the Views From The Edge forums. ;)

I'm pretty sure CDPR won't be pandering to any putative CP2020 demographic, that one died out long, long ago and was never very big in the first place. They're going to make a cyberpunk game that tricks the Call of Duty demographic into buying an RPG.

>>44859420
>>44859442
>>44859501
>>44859582
>>44859609
Quit yer bitchin', guys.

Let's post things that are Cyberpunk As Fuck:

China's Pentagon...is a shopping mall.

http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0118/c90882-9005083.html

>>44850886
>Mirror shades returning to fashion
not much into rap are you?

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>>44860054
Here's some more China.
I think it was caused by some sort of fertilizer spill.

>>44860105
What exactly are we looking at? Some kind of rampant plant growth?

>>44860128
I think it's growing on top of a lake so maybe an algae bloom?

>>44860128
Excessive algae bloom

>>44851538
What he's saying is, "the level of realism added to the sourcebook was no different than a book on agriculture being released as a splatbook for a farming skillcheck on D&D".
Which means that playing that game was only "roleplaying" being a hacker because you would be using it to hack imaginary stuff on your kitchen table. If you actually decided to try what the book said on actual systems it could even work because the author was an autist and wrote a hacking manual. The feds even fucked him for it since mst of what was written applied to real life interfaces.
Also, in earlier posts he said that he liked gurps, it's just that particular cyberpunk book that sucks.
So, you see, you lack reading comprehension. Try lord of the flies, it should work your brain out but still be understandable enough. If you still can't get it you can read harry potter or something.

>>44854505
You're deeply confused about it. Once you get the gist of it (aka transhumanism), it's fairly straight-forward. I mean, why would you play a genre about which you know nothing? At least read a bit before touting your craptastic opinions around.

>>44857431
As a person living in eu I find that description to be skewered...
It is even worse - eu is basically ruled by non-democratically elected comissar, who cannot be removed from his post.

>>44861017
With corporations lobbying and bribing the politicians - no one cares.
With new surveillance programs coming up - no one cares.
Where being Centre or even slightly right-wing is seen as being a nazi.
Where media show you only one true righteous viewpoint


And there are few countries that are kinda opposite when it comes to the second last one last one (Hungary, Poland) - but it is as bad. Idea of being Centre or slightly left is seen as being stalinist and/or feminazi sjw maximus.

>>44859395
>It's Cyberpunk 2020/2077
Correction, it's Cyberpunk 2077, which is not necessarily the same as Cyberpunk 2020. 57 years passed. Only 26 years have passed between the 80s and now. It wouldn't surprise me if they used the time jump to get rid of a lot of the elements that seem anachronistic to us now.

>>44856668
My MOS is 89D. Plastique is an outdated term for CC#s, and you're the idiot. It is heat resistant to a degree that anything other than purposeful exposure won't cause it to react. Did you notice the actual schematic he posted? >>44850525 Clearly mentions a primary combustible.

Stop talking out your ass. Clownfag is brotier.

>>44861304
>only 26
>ONLY

>>44852510
Eclipse Phase isn't a good game.

That the designers are SJW morons is completely besides the point.

>>44858253

It was a time when there was a massive amount of rules expansion.

Fourth edition consolidated it all, while normalizing everything and making it all internally consistent. 3e was a necessary step on the road to fourth, but not a game I'd ever like to play.

It's very telling that even ten years later nearly all the mechanics in Fourth edition are in the Basic Set. Mostly what you see in sourcebooks are examples of how to apply those mechanics to fit a genre.

For a crunchy example, the hot new magic system is GURPS Power: Sorcery. It draws ENTIRELY from the Basic Set and Powers and introduces no new rules at all. Basically, it extrapolated a full magic system including spell creation rules using the rules you already have.

>>44858298

And it emphasized stuff like social engineering which was really at the core of how to hack a network.

The rhetoric from the DoJ was intended to damage SJGames's reputation and get their court orders upheld without revealing what the investigation had really been about. The dickish moves were laughed out of court when it turned out that the hacked document supposedly top secret and worth tens of thousands of dollars was publicly available for sale from the phone company for less than ten bucks.

And SJGames wasn't even involved except in the sense that one of the employees had downloaded a hacker newsletter with the E911 document in it.

Bruce Sterling's The Hacker Crackdown is a good summary of what happened and how. Sterling himself was a founder of the cyberpunk movement; later he switched over to transhumanist fiction and from there now writes lots of generic stuff.

>>44859365

This.

Transhuman Space isn't cyberpunk, but it's pretty much THE game in the Transhuman genre. You've got leaders of the transhumanist movement actually authoring supplements, what more could you want? The history and social science missed a few and hit a few, as with any near-future setting. David Pulver's openly said he'd screwed up a few predictions. But as far as social sciences go, THS is lightyears ahead of any RPG I've ever seen-- and manages to be interesting and opinionated without being ideological.

>>44860128

The movie version of Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs.

>>44851570
Right now there is a bank in the United States of America that is being fined billions of dollars despite the fact that the CEO invested in things he knew to be not particularly safe or reliable to make a buck. As a direct consequence of this the American housing market collapsed even faster then it would have in the early 00's, causing homelessness, poverty (and all the crime and secondary problems that come with both) and economic downswing on a literally global scale due to interlinked economies, and his the banks dubious investment choices while certainly not THE main contributing factor was certainly a significant one in the US part of the global economic equation.
This man is loosing his job, and his corporation is being fined billions, but he gets to keep all the money he made himself and not go to jail despite this.

Megacorporation a DO exist, and important and wealthy people can get away with actions that have dangerous long-term economic consequences, and then get a light slap on the wrist and retire as multi-billionaires.
It's just that none of the cool cybertechnology shit happened I guess.

>>44851736
In my home city it was proven in court that the police regular fine people over little things and shit like that and arrest people so they get fined in court, which then the city immediately funnels the fines back into the police budgets.
The police here aren't privatized but they were literally existing to make money for themselves through city assistance.

>>44863260
>It's just that none of the cool cybertechnology shit happened
It will be here sooner than you expect.

>>44861017
>eu is basically ruled by non-democratically elected comissar
Well, that's pretty false since the EU is ruled by a guy just as legitimate as Cameron or Merkel.