Big Salty Tiers Edition.
Warmachine/Hordes Books, No Quarter, & IKRPG
>textuploader <dot> com / 5f980
PP Youtube (gameplay tutorials, tournament coverage, and announcements)
List building at
The Giant List of Podcasts and Blogs
Table of contents for all NQ issues
Lexicanum Iron Kingdoms Lore wiki:
So how do I Cyriss? I like the Vectors, I've read up on strategy and such, but they still seem a bit odd to me. Any suggestions?
As an aside, I'm thinking full-on Borg for their color scheme - but then again that might seem a bit Cryxian, what with them hoarding all the black and green.
Played a few games with a friend's Cygnar force, so I have a very basic understanding - lots to learn still, but I'm getting there.
Found a great deal on a force with Syntherion, so I'll be starting with him, and he seems like a caster who wants a fair amount of vectors. However, I'll need a fairly high model count to make the best use of Synergy, so I'm still trying to put together a decent 35 and 50 point list - trying to find that balance, so to speak.
Some dickweed posted all of the Steamroller Packet online and ruined the rest of the updates for everyone.
But amongst the leaks were changes to placeable terrain hitting Runes of War the hardest. Nothing majorly radical aside from that. It appears they are not going to flex the scenario muscle too much even with the big Denny and Haley nerfs.
Anything else is just rumors and/or partial testing info that may not be the same come eratta time.
Battle Driven has the best summary on the whole thing...
even if its just because they are the most triggered by any changes. One of the hosts even sounds like they are Rage stuttering. Top. Keks./spoiler]
Aside from that.... Resculpts. Resculpts everywhere!!
Synth is a very flexible caster in terms of army list, he loves all the jacks. First though, real talk.
Synergy is a great spell that will lose you games. That perfect synergy chain is usually a trap, so be wary of how you use the spell, and how you build for it. A 2-3 point chain is often enough to get done what you needed done, that 6-7 chain usually means you gave up too much other stuff to do it.
Prime Axiom is great with synth, but not required. People like to say it's an alway include with him, and it does a,aging things, but he's terrible at protecting it.
In general though, Synth likes to shoot and McKee, and depends on making a smaller number of more quality attacks.
We can talk more specifics if you let me know what you want out of him.
Right before a major con too.
I wonder if the Battle Driven guy's heads are gonna asplode.
Tactics has gotten legitimately better in the past 6 months and it's also cheaper now.
So's the DLC.
Most who dislike it seem to do so squarely on the basis it functions a bit different from the tabletop and isn't a carbon copy. That or they haven't tried it since it was a poorly optimized lag pit.
Pp had the PGs agree not to go posting it to the internet for some reason you'd have to ask a PG about. Don't really understand the logic myself, since they wanted feedback, so the PGs would have needed.to let their players see it.
PP only wants PGs to have access to the doc so they can iterate and maintain one consistent flow of feedback instead of everyone starting threads cause they lost one game on a new scenario. Two years ago someone leaked the doc and they cut PGs out of the loop, this year it happened again.
Mak3. It doesn't get any more front-line. Really looking forward to playing her in ADR. She benefits so much from it.
>What caster would you most like to be friends with?
Skorne don't have friends
Take Zaal1. Take Zaadesh and some Reptile Hounds.
Last Stand + Flank + Tag Team + Enrage = MAT9+3D6 to hit and POW12+5W6 on the charge.
Not really my cup of tea, but should be fun if you can get it to work.
This guy is correct >>44855510
They didn't want a flood of Nuevo bitching and moaning at this early stage. We're able to show you the document too but got can't make a copy of it or anything like that
The thing is, if you can show people the document, then how does that stop people from going around bitching about things? Like, if enough people go inline and say 'Hey, my PG showed me the beta to test and this is what it said' we'd get just as good an idea what's in the packet even if we don't have a local PG. If they wanted mre closed beta approach where they can more easily filter the data that's fine, but this was never going to accomplish that unless they told the PGs to only test it against each other.
Those people don't have the docs and unless they have photographic memory it's not like they know or even remember everything.
The idea with the PGs is for us to be a filter and to provide the best feedback so they can implement changes that are actually good and their not wasting their time reading the forums. They could get that by sharing it with everyone but they'd have to sort through a mountain of shit to get to the good stuff. That takes man hours and money. It's way easier to have your unpaid volunteers do it in their free time.
Players are allowed to discuss the document by the way. They just weren't supposed to get a direct copy of it.
Truly, your genius is astounding. They still want to share beta stuff with all of their players. You don't share stuff in development with literally everyone. PGs are supposed to act as a filter but they're also able to disseminate information about the packet a little at a time rather than all at once.
You're never going to be happy with the answer I give you, just let it go.
>are supposed to act as a filter but they're also able to disseminate information about the packet a little at a time rather than all at once
That is a very long-winded way of saying absolutely nothing.
I told you to let it go anon.
The only other example I can give you without screenshoting the PG board is that the big thing we weren't supposed to share are the new terrain rules. They're pretty different, but theyre also in flux and if the beta hadn't been they'd be constantly updated. This also happens with the scenarios and eventually the objectives, etc.
Regular players don't need that and regardless of what you think, PP doesn't want them to have it either.
Here, have a Spiderman meme for your trouble.
Im just not sure how that lessens the inflow of info when people are allowed to see it. I took notes so I could give my pg feedback
Although, its not as if there is an influx of threads on the forums.
>Although, its not as if there is an influx of threads on the forums.
Well they did close the beta since it leaked. Usually there isn't a lot of discussion on the boards while the beta is going on. There's some chatter but we're usually pretty good about limiting who gets to see what.
Just want to point out that I'm not the anon who was arguing with you, but the guy who wrote >>44857018
The thing is, from a beta testing standpoint their process doesn't make a lot of sense and I can't see it ending any other way.
If the terrain rules weren't ready for out-of-house testing, why post them with everything else? If you don't want to filter through non-PG feedback, why not just announce that and proceed to ignore anyone who tries.
I completely agree that they had every right to pull the beta once that guy broke the agreement you guys made with them. That's how these things work. But, I just don't understand why that was the agreement in the first place, and that's vexing.
PP works in weird ways sometimes. They're pretty hesitant to share stuff with the general public and forums. Considering every time they do their forums explode into a mountain of shit I don't really blame them.
But yeah, sometimes they do stuff that doesn't always make sense
I assume that they wanted to keep the feedback limited to people who actually played with the changes instead of a bunch of armchair generals flooding the forum with complaints despite not having actually played with the changes.
Ossyan is probably the only one you could hang out with safely. Maybe Issyria, but she's a mega bitch and dawg you know she ain't riding yo dick for this right?
We don't know enough about Tyrone other than that he's a man of the people and a shit caster.
Hey, hey asshole from last thread. I fucking g told you Warders were getting the nerf bat. Go fuck yourself
Bradigus theme force tier 3 benefit nerfed and made useless. From "Sentry stones start with 3 fury" to "you get +1 to your starting roll."
Calandra elemental evolution tier 1 and tier 4 benefits switch places. Tier 1 is that "all warbeasts affected by chosen animus of friendly warbeast" thing, and tier 4 is now the "all warbeasts in calandras battlegroup cost -1 points."
Also, some random buffs.
MoW Bombs got CRA, Destors got Quick Work, Karax got Set Defense.
Some other nerfs, Runeshapers got slightly nerfed, Woldwarden's Animus got changed, need to look to see if it's a buff or a nerf, Infinite Kharn no longer possible.
Their primary issue is being a fucking Man-o-War unit with ranged weapons that lack range. Either in the form of speed, or actual range on the weapons.
Combined ranged attack just means you can hit two shots from them a turn. WHOOPEE.
Their biggest issue, the lack of range as they said, they can't fix without breaking the entire faction. Snipe in faction would be retarded.
Giving them +4 range themselves might work, but then they go from useless to insanely good.
They're overall being conservative with their choices.
What's even funnier is that they nerfed the shit out of Trolls for being top dog, and barely touched anyone else. No pSkarre nerf, no eVayl nerf.
This Errata pleases me.
...and I play Troll suckas!!
It didn't take a genius to tell that Trolls were getting nerfed.
So I've been playing with other lists to get a one up on you two trick posers that jumped in my faction.
>no eVayl nerf
after finally taking the time to learn how to use her, I gotta say, I am more than ok with this decision.
Guys I want to start the game but do I have to put in all the earrant/rule crap up to this point or just replace stuff on the 2010 cards i got with this and it'll be fine? Cause I'm not going into it if i have to do some serious lawer altering stuff to my cards.
90% of the nerfs you're seeing here is stuff that you aren't likely to deal with, outside of maybe Warders. Plus, you can use warroom if you've got a tablet to have the updated cards already.
>Trolls get nerfed to hell
>No changes to Cryx
>Brad won't even notice the change to Wold War
I see we're back to Trolls can't have nice things and Cryx still reigns supreme. What is this, 2011?
They're balance changes dealing with the competitive meta, and a lot of these changes have to do with tier lists and other high end shit.
It can be useful to have the errata printed, but if you're just dicking around playing casually the errata stuff isn't a big deal for most things. The quality of life changes are important, but only if you're using those units, and generally just make whatever it is work the way you'd think it would work, instead of having some wonky interaction.
I find that very hard to believe. There's several very easy changes they could have made to make Cryx less of a ball buster and they did none of it.
If anything Cryx got a buff, since the nasty troll lists they were quite afraid of no longer exist.
Not since the errata !!!
OMG troll players salty salty tears !!
But wait. I thought Menoth players were going to be salty too? I don't see why?
It's a pity PP didn't see our last WMH thread with the proposal that bane thralls AND errants also lose weapon master, out of compassion for their trollblood brethen, if not for game balance.
I really hope the Warder nerf is the first nerf to other reach weapon master units. Making reach & weapon master an either-or ability for units would certainly get people to diversify their list building.
It doesn't weaken Cryx that much since they still have McThralls and Satyxis, but whatever, one step at a time.
Trolls still have Grim1 and Grissel1, they don't have any reason to bitch about Cryx.
>Trolls still have Grim1 and Grissel1, they don't have any reason to bitch about Cryx.
Neither of those are EE and both are easily countered by Cryx.
Yeah, Cryx got crazy buffed by this and the new SR2016 terrain made suffice Bane Knights even better. 2016 is shaping up to be dominated by Cryx with few challengers.
look hungerford, we guessed there was some basis to your rumors, but they were a little bit too vague.
Next time, be slightly less vague: or give more rumors.
When do you remove weapon master from errants and banes?
That will be glorious.
yes it does though.
Flameguard cleansers have been doing this since forever.
6 man CRA, say the direct hit is POW 12 + 6dudes = pow18
the blast is pow12 /2= 6 + 6 dudes, so POW12 blast.
>CAPTAIN kARA sloAN. FIRING sQUAd. Replace the second sentence of Firing Squad with the following: When a model in Sloan’s battlegroup that is in her control area hits an enemy model with a normal ranged attack during its activation, immediately after that attack is resolved one other model in Sloan’s battlegroup that is in her control area can make one normal ranged attack.
So does this mean Sloan can basically get every single extra shot every time a jack scores a hit?
Well arcing fire is better than spray, I guess?
I am not saying its the second coming but its not nothing.They probably should have this and cost a point less but its still something.
You mean the way they are all undead and fearless, therefore immune to large swathes of rules?
Or that they have access to extra magic (via souls) that many other forces cannot match?
Or that they have large amounts of recursion and recursion is dangerous in any game system because it can very quickly get out of hand.
Yes. Better than nothing. Still a hefty price tag though for a heavy armored slow unit that wants to shoot from the back, but also get stuck in with their chainsaws at the same time in order to make up for their points cost.
Thank jesus. Fuck MMM
buffing things isn't the idea atm.
Nerfing the outrageous shit is.
Balance might never be perfect, but they can shave off the bits that stick out.
I believe legion and cryx stick out quite a lot, especially since this latest errata.
But cryx and legion sell like hot cakes, so is that why they don't get nerfed?
Why Machinations? Every single time an errata comes out, people keep saying that they wanted Machinations to get a nerf. Why?
It's a good tier list with a really good caster, sure, fine. It's not an auto-win button. Even JVM loses with the list on occasion. It doesn't solve all of Legion's issues. It isn't warping the meta like EE or Wold War was.
I actually am in the same camp as you, Machinations is a non issue as far as themes are concerned in my book. However it seems like most pairings include it and i was under the impression that PP was trying to nerf themes that were extra popular
Its free benefits for playing a top tier caster the way they want to be played.
Imagine if harby's theme force was book+errants+rhupert+reckoners and a devout.
Obviously bad for the game
Being good doesn't mean it's bad for the game, even if Vayl2 is good already.
Take what Will said in >>44863155 with a huge grain of salt, but still:
>we look at variables such as a model’s effect on the meta and health of the game overall, the play experience both with and against a model, whether or not a model is unintentionally invalidating other options within its own faction, and many, many more considerations.
Does Machinations have a negative effect on the meta? Is the play experience against Machinations always going to be shit, no matter what caster or faction you play? Is Machinations being played all the time in tournaments to the point where other options in the faction are rendered irrelevant? Are all Machinations lists the same?
Also, I've seen more people playing Vayl2 out of tier since Croak Raiders came out. She does not need to be played in-tier all the time.
After an abortive attempt to get into the game a couple of years ago I've decided to try again with a different faction.
Is the warcaster chick (who's name I cannot for the life of me remember) who can summon alternate versions of herself any good? I quite like the fluff of her I've read so far but I don't wanna end up gimping my army before I even begin.
Secondly is there any source for the novels? I found an old torrent with a couple in, but nothing recent and I didn't see it in the OP.
>obviously bad for the game
A theme force is supposed to have a theme. Themes which can be summed up as "all the best possible options for this caster" aren't very fluffly as far as themes go.
Taking all the best things you want is what you do out of theme.
Machinations does have a negative effect on the meta.
When it's in almost every legion pairing then something is amiss.
It might not be so stronk, but it's an autoplay list. Not what warmachine is supposed to be.
Is there anything obviously terrible for Cygnar that I should watch out for?
Also I assume the numerical designations are to differentiate the different versions of each character. is there a list of them, or is it just one of those things you learn as you go along?
What was spoiled? I saw teasers of a new Man-O-War, and some new storm-smith with what look like lightning grenades awhile back. Kinda dropped off the hobby for a little while and missed everything.
>Machinations does have a negative effect on the meta.
That negative effect being? 5 extra points (6 if you go crazy with a 6-beast loadout), a +1 to go first, and +2 SPD on the first turn are not meta-breaking benefits. The extra points almost always go into buying infantry (which are usually pot-fodder anyways), the other two benefits just let her pressure scenario early. She can't break a game like Deneghra2.
>When it's in almost every legion pairing then something is amiss.
Just going off what DGI has for the past year, not counting WTC,
>it's an autoplay list
Spoken like someone who has never played the list.
keep cherry picking, nigga.
you just implied that free light beasts (from the pot) from free infantry (bought with discounts on beasts) which by the way can still do it's job, isn't a good thing?
Really? Just how fucking stupid are you?
When did I say that the LESSER beasts (get the rules right first before you bitch about something) from the pot aren't a good thing? Yeah, they're good, but they're not fucking meta-breaking like you seem to be implying.
If the list goes the 6-beast loadout, the only source of early corpses is from the vessel unit cannibalizing itself. What's your argument then, that a list of 6 glass cannon heavies is breaking the game?
Not nearly as big a deal as 12 light warbeasts that eat infantry swarms & heavies alike or triple stone teleportation (or just double teleporting heavies with reach, if the official explanation is true) or completely shutting down scenario as a potential win condition or literally dictating to your opponent how they are allowed activate their models. Those are big fucking deals that broke the game.
Legion isn't even the only faction that can do 6 heavy lists. Rasheth's Chain Gang does it, Harby's tier list does it (not commonly played, but woe to anyone unlucky enough to go up against the curious Protectorate player that decides to try it out), fuck, the NQ list for the Witch Coven can run 8 or 9 heavies.
All of the Haleys are pretty killer but if you're just starting they might not be the best choices as they can be so good you don't really get to learn how to properlly use your Cygnar units and you might develop bad habits and crutches.
By all means go for it but I'd recommend Seige as an initial caster. He's awesome and generally has an answer for every threat that'll bring out the best in a lot of Cygnar's units. He comes with the all in one set which has a lot of stuff you're garunteed to use so grab that and Reinholdt for a solo to really make him kick ass.
I can't really think of anything genuinely terrible, but Fireflys aren't really useful without stormcallers. Triumph is good but heinously overpriced for what you get, but that's just an upgrade kit for a regular heavy chasis so if you're magnetizing them it's really just an extra option you have.
One thing to keep in mind is that a hunter is pretty much mathematically better at killing big stuff than the defender in every way, its a better jack for marshalling to gun mages, and it's 3 points cheaper in addition to getting an extra 6 inches of deployment and the ability to ignore free strikes. The Defender is still really nasty, and if I could only pick one I'd orobably pick the Defender but the hunter is way better than point cost might imply.
Stormguard are a little lacking for infantry. They can kill a ton of tradh infantry in a turn but they're slow, cant defend themselves, and really don't have the armor to survive on their own. Boomhowlers are a much better choice.
Any other casters you'd recommend I avoid at first? Or others like Siege that are noob friendly?
That was helpful, thank you....
Coming from 40k, not having anything completely terrible will be a nice novelty lol
A lot of cygnar infantry gets a bad rap, but they're largely workable. Especially trenchers under Haley 3. Other than that, you may want to get some of the merc mainstays such as aiyana/Holt, boomhowlers, and nyss hunters.
Anyone that thinks warders are unplayable is a fucking moron. 8 points to guarantee a zone/flag being held is dirt cheap.
Oh no baby can't play defense and offense with the same undercosted unit? Boo Fucking Hoo
So I stopped playing Trollbloods for a year or two due to uni work, but I'm looking to jump back in. How much have the Trollbloods changed in recent history?
Also, I'm a big fan of the new Dhunian Knot models. How well do they preform?
I have a similar (though maybe a bit more subdued) felling toward Stromguard.
I asked about them here and the general response was... lackluster at best...
but after playing with them, I am quite impressed with what they can do.
sorry, but having a reach weapon + Combined Melee Attack + Ranked Attack = Someone is going to have a bad day.
Electrical Discharge and Electro Leap is just icing on the cake.
and set defense means you are not rushing to get the charge to prevent getting charged, if you have a good position or a unit you want to protect, they are perfectly fine holding back and waiting for a better opportunity.
I'm going to play doubles advocate here and say that weapon master could have been replaced with CMA (like shocktroopers).
Otherwise I agree with you
>oh no baby can't play defense and offense with the same undercosted unit
just wait till the UA gets released
I don't even play Trolls and I feel bad for them. Trolls only had 3 competitive lists and they all got kneecapped.
It seems like only Cryx and Legion get to have nice things.
Good thing I started the game with Legion
So I've been posting in the Troll forums and seriously, fuck those guys. Fuck them with whatever blunt object is handy.
I get that having your stuff changed sucks, but I have never seen a bigger bunch of whiney, entitled, little shit lords. I swear you'd think the forum had turned into a 40k general on /tg/
Saying this as a Legion and Khador player that hates fighting MMM
Bane Thralls are insane and meta warping, imo.
>effectively POW 13 weapon master
>ARM debuff of enemy models
>stealth so they can survive getting to the front lines
This isn't even counting all the shit Tartarus brings to the table
They're undercosted for what they bring to a fight.
But god fucking forbid that Trolls get a POW 10 weapon master.
Aha hahaha... Oh man... It's just trolls trolling trolls now
I'll give you that(coming from legion) but with scatter and cra, you can now use them to try to take hail marys on turn one from 12-14 inches back then on the next turn, you'll be in range while your opponent will have had to deal with your screening unit.
again I'm not saying it's ideal but they are wayyyyyy better now and probably a little playable
They're offense is just fine. It's their defense that is subpar, ironically so if you consider their name. But if the enemy has close to no range threats, they can be worth it. Or if you bring Haley3 fór DEF14 (16 against charges).
There were so many ways to nerf warders but they took the dumbest options to do so.
Hungerford talks of negative play experience but no one complained that warders were great bears and killing shit like colossals in 3 swings.
the negative play experience was that warders were unkillable assholes.
So now got a unit compromise that no one is happy with. Troll players hate it because they do nothing and opponent hates it because they are still a bitch to remove.
>opponent hates it because they are still a bitch to remove
I like it. They still fill their core role (being hard to kill), but don't murderize heavies on the side. It was the right call.
I like it.
Battle Driven and weapon master was dumb. One of those had to go, but one of those is unique to Warders. So Weapon Master took a dive.
I don't think there should be anything as hard to remove as Warders that hit that hard to retaliate outside Warjacks.
>But if the enemy has close to no range threats
fair enough, though usually if I'm having them take a defensive stance, I'm either positioning them such that the terrain forces enemy units into shitty positions to get a clear shot at them, or what's behind the Stormguard is geared toward dealing with it (in my case either a Charger warjack, or Siege Brisbane firing all the rockets)
Ordered this list as my first dip into Scyrah coming from Legion
Adeptis Rahn Shyeel (*6pts)
* Phoenix (10pts)
House Shyeel Battle Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
House Shyeel Battle Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Stormfall Archers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (5pts)
Stormfall Archers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (5pts)
Tell me how I fucked up /tg/
Stryker1 is a good one to learn on and he's a good caster on this own merits. You can get him with the battlebox, which means you also get two very useful lights and a heavy chasis with him for the price of one kit. Combined with something like the all in one box you'll have a lot of options and two really good casters to learn from, and if you're magnetizing you'll have two heavies which can field as two ironclads or a mix of defenders, cyclones or ironclads depending on what your list needs. Otherwise Caine2 is considered the ultimate assassination based caster, and Sloan is somewhere between Seige and Caine, and is generally a hell of a lot of fun if you want to play someone different.
There really aren't any bad units at all in Cygnar to be fair. It's just how and when you use them (a Lancer will be great with Stryker but not Seige for example). Deapite what I said about Storm guard thats mostly on their abilities as a meat shield. As a second wave mopping up crew they're deadly as hell if theyre not all getting killed in the first turn.
errant nerf is coming
too many people complaining that they can't make karenfag lists with the cinerators from the 2 player starter
its an NPE, you see, to be told a shit unit is shit
Cinerators work fine for starting games. PP won't Nerf a unit to make another easier to use. That's retarted. If anything they should just package a small unit of EE with the starter box. Gives a better value.
>You just need to hope you don't come up against stuff like Feora2 + Jew Dictator.
I actually don't have to worry about that. The one Menoth player I most often go up against the most refuses to use her. This is on the grounds that, in the lore, she's a real bitch.
Why is everybody complaining about trollbloods' errata. Min-maxed tournament EE was good, but far from imaginative, and made you invest in too many models you wouldn't play otherwise. Besides, I'd include my Mountain King in it anyway. Also, the warders might have been better for their price compared to other choices, but Champions/fennblades with UA and solo should be able to smack a bitch, shouldn't they?
Well have fun then. I kind of want to try them with Haley3. DEF17 against charges should be able to hold a zone, once the rest of the list takes out the stuff that can reliably shoot them.
Because now Trolls have to take one unit as anvil and one as hammer. They lost their underpriced anvilhammer unit.
Maybe we'll see some Toughallos then. Those are cool enough to almost make me play Trolls.
i wish they had just shopped the mace with a nerf bat
Got some extra cash and I want to flush out my Khador army. I know I'm definitely going to get Ruin, but I am wondering if I should go for the great bear unit, or the widowmakers and the widow maker marksman. I am still new to the game, and as far as casters go I have Scorsha 1 and butcher 1 and 2. What would you recommend out of the two units I listed or should I go for something else? Already have winter guard, their UA and kovnik Joe. Looking to spend around $40 not including the Ruin.
So will the bears fit in well with my lists that generally include the whole winter guard shebang, a spriggan, devastator, and the ruin when I get it? I'll always also use the war dog. I've also got the jacks that come with the starter kit.
>I kind of want to try them with Haley3
good combo, though combined with Siege's feat, they can also get a pretty savage CMA, just saying, since the second row can also contribute to a CMA, they can get a pretty high bonus already, add on that the opponent's ARM is halved and now these guys are putting some serious hurt on even heavy jacks.
>You either need a way to ignore stealth or a barrage of sprays to even attempt to remove them before they start to push your shit in.
The whining never ends. For whatever reason, Troll players still thought themselves the underdogs even with all the crazy shit they could bring.
You were warned that would be the case. Right from the get go. You were warned! We even tell new players this. "Don't expect to get cool new toys every year"
Oh I always had mine blasted off the table... Guess there is a lot more Cygnar/Circle/Trolls/Menoth/Cryx/Legion/Mercs in my area than yours.
>three years later
Yeah okay. Wasn't the point though. I'll probably sell because I haven't found a shop yet that isn't a 2 hour drive from my house.
Community is toxic and garbage to boot.
Ask him about propane or propan equipment. Also knows the quikest road to Urcaen.
Had one guy get mad any time his faction wasn't declared as the absolute greatest and almost cried when someone told him MoWs "weren't that good."
Had another guy vape all over the table
Another one went on an hour long rant about the state of the game and was generally a cunt.
Got to watch one newbie join, eventually lose hope, and leave because everyone was a neckbeard and played their most WAAC lists against him.
And the memes. Dear god the memes.
Wait, why are memes a bad thing?
The rest, yeah. Looks like fat neckbeards gotta neckbeard.
WMH does bring out the WAAC in people,although usually most of them can tame down a bit to play a newb into the game.
Get the newb psyched up, get them into some neat list building
bring them up a few levels
Then smash them.
Yeah, sort of.
Banes are the root of the problem with WMH.
You see, in the very first forcebooks for MkII, 2 units got some pretty MkI-like buffs.
A OP ua for banes, and an OP ua for errants.
Both of these units are now so fucking blatantly better than any other choice.
Sure you don't have to take them.
Sure you can win without them
But they're so good, why not take them?
And thats the problem.
Fix WMH? a couple of light things would help:
1) remove weapon master from banes and errants.
2) -1THR to all warbeasts. Down to a minimum of 6. If WBs actually did have a downside, then fury wouldn't appear so OP
>Remove WM from ALL banes. All of them. stealth, dark shroud, recursion, no knockdown tough, reach, ghostly vengeance. undead (no souls and fearless)
Yeah you're right banes are good enough.
Picked up two units of drudges and a unit of overlords for body and soul, so I figured I'd start cephalyx, gonna be buying two heavies, two agitators and a dominator for a unit of nyss hunters. Besides that whats their playstyle besides dude spam, and how are their casters?
>Make banes as killable as doom reavers and they can keep WM.
Doom Reavers can ruin infantry and still break jacks.
oh noes, would you cry like a babby troll?
bane Thralls would still be POW 13 thanks to dark shroud.
bane knights would still have reach and vengeance.
So they won't be able to one round colossals, heavies and chew through way more points worth of multiwounds?
>Oh diddums, you mean you would be forced to actually use your brain? That's terrible.
You might actually want to use warjacks for warjack jobs!!
>barrage of sprays
BEHOLD THE MIGHTY MECHANICAL WANG, PURVEYOR OF SPRAYS
WITNESS ITS TRIO OF SHINY METAL BALLS
you forget that doom reavers are an elite unit of 6 dudes, and that they come with a drawback; they can berzerk into each other or end up out of command range.
They are powerful because of their drawback.
Remind what banes drawback is again?
Oh yeah that's right, they don't have one.
>remove weapon master from banes and errants
I don't think you understand how this game works because fucking mcthralls hit harder than errants.
Bane Thralls are effective pow 13 weapon masters in a faction with scything touch, parasite, crippling grasp, and a whole host of other shit like The Withering.
Errants are pow 9 and Menoth casters have basically no damage buffs for troops outside of Eye of Menoth and Ignite.
Comparing these two units like they're the same is probably the stupided possible parallel you could ever draw. Errants jam, they don't crack armor without a ton of help. And even then they're falling out of favor already outside of casters with d-ward and Harby.
>Remind what banes drawback is again?
>Oh yeah that's right, they don't have one.
Yes. Mechanithralls do hit harder than knights errant.
You know why? because mechanithralls are undead zombies with steam powered fists.
knights errants are dudes with swords, and as far as stats go a dude with a sword is pow9.
the difference between the two is that the mechanithrall has shit stats, but hits hard if it connects.
The knight errant has good stats, and knows how to actually wield that sword.
Do Praetorian Swords have vengeance and side step. Do you ever see them?
Legionnaires have the same thing and more with Farilor. How often do they get taken?
Immortals, pow 13 vengence reach? Do they get played outside of pZaal tier?
And I wouldn't cry so much as shrug and move on to all the other units that people think are broken. Banes get nerfed and you are still going to cry when you get wrecked by Raiders. When those get nerfed you'll still get wrecked by blood witches and blackbanes. When those get nerfed, mechanithralls and fucking black ogruns. When those get nerfed, full pirate boat until it gets nerfed.
That's what it sounds like when people complain about Cryx.
Oh there's more:
Errants need buffs compared to banes, because even if both units lost WM errants would lose out?
Errants have blessed crossbows. In addition to their other abilities.
Errants are supposed to be agile knights, not quite fully fledged knights exemplar.
They aren't supposed to hit hard, they are supposed to be a skirmish unit.
Banes are a dedicated combat unit.
Funnily enough, both units will do decent damage when they charge.
Oh what a surprise, it's like the game did it on purpose !
Getting played with one caster is barely worth mentioning.
Immortals are speed 6 with an AG nearby.
But they're weapon master for a turn. *crying* Omg and they have reach. *wailing and gnashing of teeth*
Literally all of these points are irrelevant to your argument. You can't compare WM on Banes with WM on errants because they're too completely different units, which you just explained yourself.
Banes are expendable and you only need a few to get to their target to end the game. Errants while somewhat self sufficient are still an expensive package and need even more additional support into them to do their job correctly.
Banes need WM because they are expected to dive in handfuls so each model has to be more powerful on average. Errants need WM because they require a ton of additional investment and need to still be able to carry their own point value and well as the additional point value you are investing into them while jamming where they won't be getting a charge bonus.
Your entire supposition is wrong and your argument is flawed.
More importantly, Raiders are insanely fast with AD and straight up immune to the most common answer to high DEF infantry.
If they only jammed you in your deployment zone, they'd be worth taking, but it also turns out they're weaponmaster and straight up counter other jam units.
>Replace Affinity [Makeda] with the following: While in Makeda’s battlegroup, Molik Karn gains +1 FURY.
>WHILE YOU'RE USING MAKEDA, MOLIK KARN GAINS +1 FURY
FUCK MY URETHRA WITH A RAKE GOD DAMN SON THE RICH GET RICHER
Actually it's more of a buff. If you discount the stupid infini-karn trick, Karn being able to charge outside of Makeda's control area while still keeping his +1 FURY and being forced by a Willbreaker is a pretty big deal. I don't think it's a huge buff to skorne or anything but it makes the magic karn bullet more powerful than it was before.
>Trade for a big ol pile of Stormblades/guard from a guy on Bartertown
>Package arrives, it is suspiciously small
>His idea of safe packaging for assembled models is wrapping a napkin around each one
>All of them are broken at the joints, and all the Stormguard halberds are broken at the blades