Why is it stupid American football and not superior rugby or

>>44845381
>>>/sp/

>>44845381
Because if it was inspired by soccer then the moment you went to flatten someone and missed they'd still fall down and go to the medical tent.

If it was inspired by rugby it wouldn't change at all.

>>44845381
American football is about style and being imposing rather than gameplay. It's a more entertaining show than soccer or rugby, even though the gameplay in those is better.
Plus, it's a lot more structured, ie it's broken down into smaller chunks, and easier to translate into other formats because of it.
The different field positions in american football are a lot more like "classes", too. There's a greater difference between the big guys and the small guys than there is in the other two sports, soccer in particular.

>>44845381
Our Football is more violent.

>>44845727
>murican football
>more violent than rugby
>implying

>>44845381
Gridiron works better as a tabletop game, rugby is too difficult to get right as it requires players to work together too much and apart from tackles there's not much more contact compared to half the team running into each other like the yanks do. Football would just be passing 90% of the time as well.

>>44845432
/thread

>>44845381

I just noticed the goblin giving a tackle assist in the background. thats gold.

>>44845781
How did the creators know anything about American football at the time? Was there a small following of it in Britain back then? I just think a sport that is not present in the Olympics says something about it.

>>44846060
It was somewhat popular in the 80s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utsHE5xWges

>>44845764
American football literally WAS rugby until the league forced rule changes to stop the MULTIPLE DEATHS a season.

Americans can't have properly brutal football because we abused the priviledge

>>44845615
That's a good answer.

>>44846060
UK has always had pockets of people who watched American Football from what I understand.

And it isn't an exact knowledge, I mean there are no plays and passing can be done anywhere to anyone.

>>44846060
It's only inspired by gridiron football. Turnovers sort of work like downs, but there's it's not a slavish simulation of it.

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>>44845381
>wanting to play fantasy divegrass

>>44845381
Actually you could argue it plays a lot more like rugby for some teams; Skaven for example.

There's also Mantic's Dreadball, which plays more like a mix of soccer/football, basketball, and hockey.

>>44845381
It really isn't very much like American Football at all. Play is continuous until someone gets a TD, for one.

>>44845381
Aesthetic, if it was rugby they would only use normal clothing, with American version you can use personalised helmets and spiked/decorative protection and gauntlets.

>>44847810
Neither rugby code has forward passes though.
>>44847944
Good answer!

I think it's also because American football runs more similarly to a turn based game. And Blood Bowl matches tend to last hours too.

>>44847944
I can see that being a big reason, but the tactics and plays with American football translate well to a turn based table top game.

>>44845381
Because it allows forward passing and armor. Armor looks cool.

>>44845615
>It's a more entertaining show than soccer or rugby
>alright, guys, play's been going on for ten seconds, time to stop and wait thirty seconds for everyone to set up again

>>44846060
NFL was shown on channel 4 from the mid-1980s onwards. At the time, GW was populated by enthusiastic amateur types, who were more about motorcycles, magic mushrooms and death metal than spreadsheets and profit margins. American Football was like the ultimate niche sport in the uk, and somewhat violent and with cool armour to boot. The story of the origins of Blood Bowl is that Jervis was already an NFL fan. He played his first ever game of WHFB and then promptly went home and set about building a tabletop fantasy football gam, just using the Fantasy mechanics.

Contrary to the idea it is only loosely based on NFL, the original Bloodbowl game had expanded rules for playing full NFL rules, with downs and field goals, etc

>>44846303
Wait, seriously? I didn't know that.

>>44849172
That's really interesting, I didn't know that. Thanks.

>>44850719
>Wait, seriously? I didn't know that.
Kinda. By the time rugby was rugby football already had some different rules.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_American_football

>>44850898
Huh. Wow. Yup, 19 deaths in 1905. Nuts.

>>44850719

It's the same thing with boxing.

>>44853209
I don't understand how it's the same thing with boxing, there have been more deaths post gloves than there ever way bare knuckle.

>>44848785
>alright, guys, play's been going on for ten seconds, time to stop and wait thirty seconds for everyone to set up again

You forgot the 15 minutes ads between each action

>>44845432
>If it was inspired by rugby it wouldn't change at all.
Except for passing the ball forward not being allowed which would be a HUGE change.

>>44851008
>Huh. Wow. Yup, 19 deaths in 1905. Nuts.
Just like BB then
>>44855149
Its because they can punch harder with gloves now, the same thing with murican football armour

With gloves and bandages you don't have to worry of rip your skin on a punch or to twist your wrist so you can punch harder but in professional boxing you don't use any protection on the head or body so the head trauma is worst than bare knuckle one (and the degenerative diseases for prolonged head trauma)
The same goes for murican football, they can tackle with more strength because it's less likely to injure himself doing so, but that cause more injuries on the opponent

IMHO we need to get back to the minimum required protection gear in order to reduce the chance of injuries on sport players, so no armor for football players and helmets and no gloves for boxers

>>44845381
>Instead of what it is, why not rugby?
>Instead of rugby, why not proper football?
>Instead of proper football, why not baseball?
>Instead of baseball, why not hockey?
>Instead of hockey, why not tennis?
>Instead of tennis, why not billiards?
>Instead of billiards, why not interpretive dance?
>Instead of interpretive dance, why not being smacked in the dick with a fucking aluminum bat?

Because American Football is broken up into many short periods of play, which makes it better suited to a turn-based game, as opposed to rugby's continuous flow.
rugby league can just fuck right off though

>Not Aussie Rules

And this is why you all fail.

>>44845381
Because all the people who want to play football or rugby are doing so, while amateur handegg simply does not exist.

>>44845727
Unless you're Irish or Australian, no.

>>44855593
>Wanting a game based on the worst football code.

I'm pretty sure you're the failure.

>>44845381
No pauldrons.

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>>44845381
I like to think GW were unable to make a stupid cricket game because cricket is already fairly ridiculous as it is.

What?mocking football and americans is the whole point of blood bowl.

>>44848785
That's part of why it translates so good to tt.

>>44845381
Because it's theatrical entertainment, not a real sport.

>>44855830

That scenario always happens when the last batsmen left are the bowlers who don't know how to bat properly. Then it turns out later the dude has been training to bat and has actually become an all-rounder and blows the fuck out of everyone.

>>44855883
Wait, so Cricket is a game of Long-Term Strategy and Bluff?

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>>44855830

>memorise all of these please mate

>>44855894

Cricket is literally the greatest game ever invented, seriously. There's a reason the standard 5-day match is called a "Test".

>>44855921

Silly Mid On is still the best named position in any sport.

>>44855894
There's the more obvious strategy aspect of choosing where to hit the ball based on where the limited number of fielders are, and then more abstract strategy of the team's batting order and manipulating what the other team expects from each batter

>>44855952

And all the stuff about when the right time to Declare is, trying to get out the Nightwatchman before the end of play for the day, getting the right bowlers on the right wickets (how "quick" the ground is and all that). Marvelous stuff.

>>44855894

Cricket is to Commonwealth countries what Baseball is to America. It's a highly statistics aggregated sport but there's a large amount of strategy underneath it all when people stop talking about numbers like batting averages/hits/run rate etc. Equivalent examples in Baseball you might do a sacrificial bunt and put a runner on third and all sorts. Cricket like that example the weak batters might just look to play defensively until the end of the over so the batters swap over and then the other guy can do his thing and if he's one of the better batsmen in the lineup he'll be able to gain more runs. If I recall you can't change fielding positions mid-over so in that pictured example if the weak batter manages to gain a single run and puts the better batter on point, then the bowling team's fielding position is fucked.

Other things factor in like there is pitch condition to worry about plus the weather and that can determine whether you want more spin bowlers, medium pace bowlers or fast pace bowlers. Then you have to wonder how many bowlers you want or if you would rather have a minimum amount of bowlers and concentrate more on a stronger batting game if the pitch favours your batting lineup.

>>44856078
Nah, you can change field positions as much as you want. This is part of the tactics, sometimes a captain might send fielders to deep fine leg and deep square leg to make the batsmen think a short ball is coming when the bowler is going to bowl full, for example. Some captains just rearrange fields mid-over to piss about and annoy the batsmen (Nassar Hussain used to stand right next to the batsman as he did it).

You're bang on about pitch condition, atmospheric condition, and ball condition all contributing to how the ball behaves though. It's all a bit of a black art at times.

>>44848673
>>44848737
>>44855282
>all this about forward passing

So, umm, they don't implement forward passing in BB even close to as it appears in football. There's a host of rules for when it can be done, who can do it, and to whom you can pass the ball. The two biggest changes in BB are that you can pass at any time to anyone. In football, you can only do it once per play, from behind the line of scrimmage (where the play starts from), and can only pass to around 4 of the players on the field (two backs plus the the outermost person on the line). Once the ball has advanced past the line of scrimmage, you can't pass forward any longer. On things like kicking plays, you can't pass forward at any time...

>>44856173
You make some good points, but you wrote your post in the style of a passive-aggressive little bitch so I'm going to ignore all of them. Next time drop the "so, umm" bullshit, if you want to disagree with someone just fucking disagree with them. You twat.

>>44856173
Expanding on this as someone who has played both sports, BB is much closer to rugby than it is to football. The two biggest changes from rugby code are forward passes and allowing blockers.

Play is continuous and possession is far more liquid than in football (I'm thinking especially of how a player loses the ball when tackled).

I've never really got a straight answer for this on /sp/, but how do rules like the Ineligible Receiver rule >>44856173 mentions even come about? It essentially reduces 4+ players on each side to just blocking each other for the sake of it unless they get an INT.

Same for how the ball goes dead when the pass is incomplete, or after the tackle.

>>44850898
That's brutal

>>44856078
>Other things factor in like there is pitch condition to worry about plus the weather
This is a big thing in baseball as well. Groundskeepers have all sorts of tricks they use to make the home field advantage a real thing.
Some fields are so sloped in places that you can't see the batter's knees from the dugout. Others have a half-dozen different strains of grass planted with different coarseness, which changes how the ball will roll across it. Many have sections of softer or firmer earth carefully watered to encourage or prevent pop-ups on landing. It's insane.

>>44855921

Very much an endurance sport.


For one thing it's a game that lasts 5 days, where rain stops play, and is played in the English summer.


Reasonably, it has tea breaks


The longest game was 9 days of play over 10 days, and would have gone on slightly longer (there was but 42 points to catch up ) had the england team not had to catch their boat (it was the 30s), so it was declared a draw

>>44856350

Well then that just solidifies the example that Cricket and Baseball are really more alike than I thought then. I actually wasn't aware of any of those things you just mentioned in regards to baseball but interesting to know now.

>>44856283
Rules for the longest have always been about making passing more difficult to happen. It's only been recently that passing has become the favored way of advancing the ball. Hell, in the beginning, an incomplete pass resulted in a penalty for your team.

Aside from that, one of the first things the rules began doing that's continued through this day is defining two different rulesets for backs versus linemen on the offense. This sort of thing doesn't exist on the defensive side of the ball (you can literally use zero linemen or up to and including 11 linemen on defense -- it's just a bad idea).

In truth, this division is necessary because it's hard enough to cover the 4 or 5 receivers who do go out for passes. Also, if you were able to send more out, they could just send more people directly after your quarterback (some teams have an effective pass rush of just three guys going against the offense's five guys who are blocking).

I don't know if there's ever been a conscious choice in codifying the rules in this way though...I think that's just kinda how it all worked out and it worked out in a way that was competitive.

>>44856283

and the Two Minute Warning, where the fuck does that come from? TV?

>>44846060
We've always had American Football in the UK, I used to watch it on Channel 4 decades ago when it was on late night. We're not all ignorant of other cultures here in the UK. Although I do have some nice beads I'd like to give away to some children...

>>44856489
That one is easy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-minute_warning

If you don't want to click the link the tl;dr is:
officials used to keep the official time. The two minute warning was so that the people operating the stadium's clocks and the teams were all on the same page as to how much time was remaining in the game.

Because "proper" "Football" (Soccer) is only played by faggots pretending they are hurt when they trip and rugby is already brutal as fuck...

>>44855500
>>why not being smacked in the dick with a fucking aluminum bat?
And that's more or less what Bloodbowl is all about.

>>44856645
>concussionegg
>not brutal

>>44845432
Anon not everybody is Italian.

>>44856890
I can just tell you are in your 30s, because you still adhere to the stereotype that the Italians are the flounciest footballers around. :D

Sadly, everyone in football does this now. It is written into the game.

>>44856834
Strangely, the concussion spazz outs, murder-suicides, etc etc that you see in US sports aren't really seen in Aussie rules, or Rugby, or even MMA and boxing for the most part.

Concussions are dangerous. But I think the real mental trauma US athletes suffer from is from commercial steroid abuse. They all do it. It's in the interest of the sports bodies and the big pharma to keep this out of the spotlight though.

you see they make fun of the pads and plays but you literally LINE THE FUCK UP AND FULL BODY TACKLE THE OTHER DUDE AGAIN, AND AGAIN, and thats your job. You aren't running about catching the ball, you are fucking smash man, you will move five yards a play, and that is all you will ever do. Shit you can even be fat.

>>44857039
>They get more cardio running on and off the field between plays than they do actually playing the game
>you can even be fat
You can say that again.

>>44857031
But anon, Italians don't play football. They play soccer.

>>44857081
Are spaghetti and meatballs a sport?

>>44857031
Having played rugby for a very long time, some of it at quite high levels, the general state of tackling I see with American Football is awful.

It's generally not that good at bringing a man down, it's dangerous to yourself and the person you've tackled.

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>calling handegg "football"

>>44857115
No, but your own sister/mother are considered fair game.

>>44857139
Why do they tackle like that in American Football anyway? Because they feel like they can? I only played in Middle School and they always say "Go for the legs, stay below the shoulders" but the higher up you get I think they encourage up to the shoulders.

>>44857142
You can call your own sports what you want, and tell us how to call our own sports, when your nation is a global super-power, anon.

>>44857139
I also played and I agree. The other part I find staggering about NFL is just how terrible they are at ball handling. You're just catching a ball, dudes. I don't believe that the suits of armour make it THAT much more difficult.

>>44857159
It's also excursion. You can throw yourself on the floor and keep getting back up when playing amateur sports at a slow pace. When everything is full throttle as you approach pro levels, you can't sustain such athletic play.

That said - the fitness levels in rugby are ~20 years ahead of NFL, at very least. But even there, once you get 50 minutes into an international match, you will see at least one of the teams worn out, going in for standing tackles and hold-ups rather than going for legs.

>>44857207
>>44857185
did u get rekt on pol and come here?

>>44845764
Actually, American football has a lot of players suffering future brain conditions because all that armour makes them more careless. Studies shows that when they take away the helmets during training the players get less concussions because when they wear the helmet they think they will be fine no matter what.

It's kinda like how the glowes in boxing actually doesn't soften the blows. They protect the hands so the boxers just ends up punching even harder.

>>44857031
>Strangely, the concussion spazz outs, murder-suicides, etc etc that you see in US sports aren't really seen in Aussie rules, or Rugby, or even MMA and boxing for the most part.
That's simply because the hits aren't as hard in Rugby as they are in Football (boxing actually has more concussions, since you didn't realize). Steroids has nothing to do with it. For the same reason that boxing with gloves caused more deaths than without, hitting each other with padding caused more concussions than without. Watch "League of Denial" for more info.
>>44857139
>>44857159
Tackling in American Football is done like it is to protect the guy holding the ball.

Before tackling rules, you could bash his head in and then scoop up the fumble

>>44857159
Depends largely on the position you're talking about. Most of the diving through someone tackles are done by secondary players. D-line and linebackers tend to actually tackle.

Aside from that, you're looking at a combination of rules designed to prevent injury by outlawing various low hits, plus what I suspect is a culture that discourages it because it can end someone's career. The NFL knows its primary job is to remain entertaining which isn't the same thing as being an exemplar of the highest level of technique in a sport.
>>44857185
You'd be surprised, especially given how much visibility the helmet takes away. Shoulderpads affect the range of motion quite a bit, and you're neglecting the speed at which those balls are thrown. NFL speed passes can literally cut your hands with the ball.

>>44857207
>the fitness levels in rugby are ~20 years ahead of NFL, at very least.
sigh. No, it's entirely different kind of fitness. It's like you're trying to say middle distance runners are in better shape than sprinters or olympic power lifters. The demands of the game are different so different kinds of physicality are needed.

>>44857264
idgi

>>44857304
No you misunderstand. Each of those sports gets concussions. But NFL is having a War on Concussions right now, because it is linking player deaths / depression / suicides etc to the condition.

What I was saying was, sports with equivalent levels of head trauma don't really record that level of off-field drama like NFL stars do.

>>44857308
>sigh. No, it's entirely different kind of fitness

Not really. It's very comparable - especially if if compare League instead of Union with NFL. Short bursts, strength and speed.

>>44857363
>Not really. It's very comparable - especially if if compare League instead of Union with NFL. Short bursts, strength and speed.
Yeah no. I'm sorry that's not remotely true, especially not of League. There's no where near the strength requirements in League because there's little direct, opposed pushing. Union is the better example because of scrums, mauls, and rucks, and they aren't really that close.

Here, check this out:
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/2/19/8068835/2015-nfl-combine-offensive-line-bench-press
This kind of strength is required. Realize that they're talking about reps of 225lbs (around 100 kg) and that these are guys who are trying to get into the NFL where guys are stronger.

>>44857159
>>44857139

It's highly advantageous to try to knock the ball loose with an impact. Or, failing that, to rip the ball free by digging at it. Bringing the man down will typically occur naturally as a part of this.
Also what >>44857304 said about protecting the ball carrier. Nobody wants to end somebody else's career.

>>44856350
I suddenly want a game where you play a groundskeeper for a baseball field and manage everything you can to help the team win.

>>44855938

I love the fact that it's also the position where you're most likely to get concussed by the ball

>>44857460
Okay this is really a semantic argument then. I don't use "fitness" to describe mass-lifting power. I am talking stamina - I think that was clearly indicated in my example of Union players starting to flag by the hour mark.

My initial point was that kind of fitness is far more advanced in Union than in NFL. You're saying "there are other types of prowess". Which is right, of course. But it's not the thing I was describing.

And again, league is the better parallel for that because it has a comparable short-burst play style.

>>44857507
Amen. I say this all the time when they cover cricket reports, and they basically talk up the quality of the pitch being the reason for a batting collapse. I always think that if the groundskeeper is that important, why doesn't he get a mention?

>>44857528
Hence silly, I guess

You're a bit silly for standing there, and if you get hit you could be silly permanently

>>44857496
but those points are all valid in Union too. You want to bring the man down, if you can rip the ball/jackal then excellent as well.

My point was that American Football tackles are more dangerous. They're generally spear tackles which aren't allowed in Rugby, you have to bind or at least be seen to attempt to bind. Binding is safer for both and more likely to result in a better tackle than merely running or diving at a man.

>>44845381
because american football has all the armor thing that gives designers a free pass to make cool armor designs

if it were inspired by rugby or real football, we'd get t-shirts and shorts and not cool and iconic armor

>>44857363
>>44857460
https://youtu.be/aX-YuvQkSRE
Here's a lineman benching 700lbs (around 320kg).

You have to have that kind of strength because you're pushing on guys who are 6'+ tall weighing between 300 and 400lbs who are strong enough to do that.
>>44857542
You're referring to general fitness. I'm referring to fitness for task, and yeah, I'll accept that ruggers are more generally fit than football players.

>short bursts
As far as Union versus League goes, that's literally all that it has going for it. If you're talking about backs compared to backs, you might be right, but pack compared to linemen? Union's better. You still have the explosive bursts in rugby, they're just linked with jogging in between. The actual act of scrumming is far closer to what happens every play in football though (and yes, I've played all three of these codes).

>>44857176
>we're powerful, therefore we're ALLOWED to be dumb
sounds like america alright

>>44857625
Don't worry, Europoor.

Tears are free.

>>44857625
>not realizing that football is called football in the US because it's an alternate code of football.
>not knowing that soccer was known as "soccer" a long time ago because it's a pain in the dick to say "association football"
>thinking someone calling American football code football is being dumb
>forcing me to recycle all of this crap that you should know.

>>44857659
>making up a word solely because you're lazy
you're not helping your cause, clapistan

>>44857719
friend, it was the brits who made it up.

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>>44857732
shit my bait has been blown
abandon thread

>>44857719
>>44857732 beat me to it, but yeah, it was a bong that first called it "soccer".

He was a tard though, and called rugby "rugger", so he can be roundly ignored.

Though to be honest I think Gridiron sounds pretty cool

>>44857719
'Soccer' is British. It is a contraction of 'association' as in association football.
the 'er' is the Oxford er which was added to various things things for various reasons. see 'Rugger' an informal name for rugby football, generally Union.

>>44855282
>He plays elf team.

>>44857659
American football should be called "ammer" instead. Canadian football can be "canner".

>>44857818
So gaelic football is?

>>44857879
Gaeller?

>>44857879
ale

>>44857769
Gridiron sounds like a gay bar.

>>44857926
Does it?
The ones here aren't that subtle. One is literally called G-A-Y, another is named after a gay skin mag

>>44857926
what has always annoyed me about that is literally no one in the US who is involved with the game has ever called it that. It's seriously only a product of wikipedia pawing around for something that's inoffensive and landing on what Australians call it because "American football" which most people know it as might cause offense because the USA is not all of the Americas.

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>>44857625
Das rite

>>44857999
>USA is not all of the Americas
Doesn't matter, "American" is officially the demonym of the USA.

>>44859219
Go tell wikipedia that.

I'm not even close to joking.

>>44859305
>Kikepedia
>probably edited by butthurt hispanics

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>>44859305
someone did

>>44859465
That hasn't filtered through:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gridiron_football
>Gridiron football, or North American football,[1] is a form of football primarily played in the United States and Canada.[2][3][4][5][6] The predominant forms of gridiron football are American football and Canadian football.

And if they haven't been archived yet, pop into the talk page for some of the debates I was in over this very topic.

>>44859571
Ah, here's some fun debate over the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:American_football

>>44859219
I propose Unitarian Statist.
I'm sure it would be well received and easily accepted.

>>44845381

Leave it to fa/tg/uys to parrot the bullshit europhilic memes about sports

Having played none themselves, they have a pathetic jealousy for their fellow Americans who thrived in American sports, so they deride American sports, as if their opinions had any value, them being non athletes

>>44857999

It doesn't bother me

Sure nobody here calls it gridiron football, but everybody here who has played football has heard the term "gridiron" and knows it is associated with American football and no other sport

>>44859810
The word itself isn't what bothers me about it. It's more a principle thing where wikipedia is acting as the tail wagging the dog.

>>44859712
GET A WARRANT YOU FAT FUCK

>>44857176
>your nation is a global super-power
is Vietnam a Global superpower?

>>44861276
>LELELELLE AMERICA LOST VIETNAM XDDXDXDDDXDXDDXDXD
Go choke on Achmed's dick you fucking faggot.

>>44861316
>Go choke on Achmed's dick you fucking faggot.
The US seems pretty choking on that one already.

>>44863080
SHUT IT YOU FUCKING YUROPOOR SCUM
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>playing regular boring handegg
>not playing based KIRBYBALL

>>44849172
Jervis lives nfl? Explains why epic 3rd edition was so shit and yet he thinks it was the best rules for any game ever

>>44855374
The artificial pitches don't help either

>>44857338
Money plays a part
Rugby is going in that direction atm
The thing is lots of cash in the hands of young blokes high on testosterone from training or syringes is bad
They attract female gold diggers who fuck their lives up - cipriani an example - cos the bitches need million dollar spending a month so they can catch a billionaire Buisnessman 10 years down the line
Heck look at cricket Shane Warne

>>44855374
Can we get do gladiatorial deathmatches too please? Just put the appropriate waivers in place and rules for surrendering and no-one should be allowed to complain.