Summer bloom and Twin are not legal on the mtgo beta.
Early patch notes released.
Eat shit combo fags.
>Heavy-handed punitive measures for violating NDA incoming
But seriously, if this is true then Modern won't allow draw-go control or combo, and Legacy is slowly being strangled by Wizards. Non-rotating formats are just getting shittier by the cycle.
>Does this mean control can be a thing
Are you retarded? Control had a good twin matchup, control is buttfucked by the millions of midrange decks and the diversity of the format in general.
Combo decks getting banned only increases aggro decks and memerange rhino decks.
>Implying Meme Rhino stands a chance against our new colorless overlords
Modern is now Tron: The format. Period. They don't have to devote sideboard space to dealing with Twin now, so they can literally fill their entire board with ways to beat Affinity and Burn, and laugh all the way to the top as they crush everyone else.
Tron can be hated out pretty hard via sideboards also. Don't get me wrong, this helps trons god awful burn and infect matchup slightly and Twin itself you might as well have conceded game 1 and gone to sideboard because preboard was borderline unwinnable.
But ultimately this will cause WAY more blood moons and sowing salt variants to be in peoples sideboards. Not to mention cards which people just couldn't fit before due to space purely for the Tron matchup like Leonin and Mindcensor.
Welp. Not good for fostering faith in the format. Straight up killing two decks a year after killing Pod might get more than a few people up in arms.
As far as health of the format..... I guess this is ok. I'll have to think about it some more.
>i don't have to play twin any more
i'm finally free, guys. i can shove my exarchs and twins in a box under my desk and play
a n y t h i n g
exactly how I feel man
I can take all these dumb fucking cards out of my sideboards at last
and make room for more Tron hate
Honestly, the banning of twins opens up so many possibilities. Maybe now we can actually start having some of the good Blue draw spells unbanned that will allow Control to actually be an archetype now. The card is probably still busted, but fuck man just unban Dig or Visions just for a little bit just to see how it goes
meanwhile, foil urzatron lands hitting $100 each
>Honestly, the banning of twins opens up so many possibilities. Maybe now we can actually start having some of the good Blue draw spells unbanned that will allow Control to actually be an archetype now
Hahaha, you can't seriously believe that.
If they were going to unban any blue, they would have done it at the same time. What is the point of putting it off?
there's no actual point in putting off the unban of Sword of the Meek or Stoneforge either. Wizards is just retarded when it comes to actually realizing when shit needs to be unbanned
Visions might get unbanned. The reason why it isn't unbanned right now because they aren't sure what modern will look like after the bans.
TWIN IS GONE!!!!!!
because of many reasons lets put it at this, the LGS i play at is literally the worst thing known to man, they play terrible shit while being part of the group of people that actively rails at WOTC to keep making these terribad decision and are classically some of the loudest whiners you see about things being "unfun" such as counterspells, any sort of control what so ever, and even shit like burn, its incredible and its detrimental to my health i get so pissed at that shit.
i really need to find a better group but theres less then jack shit where i live.
anon plz, aggro is fucking boring as almighty fuck and control only lasts for 3 months at a time before wizards notices its existance and promptly removes it.
i'm telling you affinity and scapeshift will die next banning and control will continue being dead.
I don't see how tron is a control deck as such. Utron is classic control, admittedly, as it uses counters and tempo plays to let it drop and protect an absurdly fat win condition, like infinite mindslaver activations, But RG Tron has more in common with classic combo decks than it does control. It only runs pyroclasms because it has to.
NOT GORYOS VENGEANCE WHAT THE FUCK?!?! TURN 3 WINS ALL OVER THE PLACE.
Oh fucking hell yeah.
I've been playing delver in modern since before the Ruse Cruise. We're getting Sotrmchaser mage as another playable creature in Oath and with twin kill we could actually see some efficient draw spells in modern. Not to mention Shadows over innistrad means we could get some new flashback spells soon.
Today is a good day to be a delver player.
>Pyroclasm, Karn, Ugin, O-stone, Newlamog and in some cases sundering titan are not control cards.
I mean fucking c'mon people, stop doing archetypes, because it's getting freaking redundent.
I'm so going to try DnT now. The problem is it probably can't race faster decks such as infect or survive through resolving pyroclasm.
Karn, Ugin, and Newlamog are win conditions.
Pyroclasm and O-Stone are sort of controlley cards, but you might as well say that Twin was a control deck because it would occasionally lightning bolt creatures.
Get real. Karn gets rid of opposing hand, gets rid of board state not to mention it can get rid of everything opponent has. Yes, it's wincon, but you are saying this isn't controlling opponents board? Jesus.
Ugin does the same thing, clears opponent's board. Sure it is a win-con as it can start to bolt in the head after. There is a reason why it's a strong card and one is that it's so damn effective to kill enemy board when it hits.
Newlamog fucking exiles 2 things opponent has including fucking lands. It's not played on tron _only_ because it's big beater.
>Twin was a control deck because it would occasionally lightning bolt creatures.
Is this nigga real?
>Pyroclasm and O-Stone are sort of controlley cards
No shit, they shit on opponent board, no wonder they are controlley.
I get what you're saying.
The reason I consider it a combo deck over a control deck, apart from blurriness as to what archetypes mean, is that it digs for specific cards, and a combination of those cards allow you to leverage a very powerful effect. This effect is the best seven or so mana cards that exist. Rather than what I would consider to be control deck, in which the win condition tends towards a single resilient threat after extending the game until the threat can be realized.
I think also that it is trons at times ferocious speed which makes me think it's less like a control deck, an early wurmcoil engine is always pretty aggressive.
Yes, I agree with you compleetely on tron assembly part itself to be pretty much combo. It's a terrifying engine. So tron actually packages control cards, combo/engine cards and some cases midrange cards such as wurmcoil etc. That's why I was saying giving decks some kind of archetype they belong in is stupid. I'm mainly looking at mtgtop8, since it's archetype distribution is silly and I ahte all discussion about decks being certain archetype, hence getting all autistic about it.
Sure, but ramp isn't treated as an archetype in its own right as often as control or combo are.
We would reach a useful conclusion much faster if we accepted that a lot of decks have elements typical to various archetypes instead of trying to describe them in their entirety with a single word, but this is /tg/.
sheeit, control decks act the aggro game sometimes. Jund is aggro, no wait, control, or midrange. It's all over the show these days.
All the current top tier decks have aspects of archetype bleed. Affinity has the nearly combo ravager wins, tron has dig and eggs to look for its pieces, Scoopshift is a one card combo yet plays the control game to get to seven lands, Twin is dead but that was happy to play the tempo counterburn game, infect is combo or aggro or unfair and shit.
Junk is still junk.
How do we beat tron? Stony silence and blood moon?
Ramp is usually just the king of the midrange decks, so I'd put it there. It just generally plays fewer removal/disruption pieces in favor of "my shit is bigger than your shit". It can vary based on the particular deck, though - U/G 12-Post in Legacy can play the controlling game pretty effectively while it gets its mana online.
But really, ramp is just its own archetype. It doesn't actually need other labels.
I DON'T EVEN PLAY TWIN, I'M THE EPIC MEMESTER PLAYING THE MOLTEN VORTEX LOAM BREW
TRON WAS ALREADY A SHIT MATCHUP FOR ME
NOW IT'S WORSE BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE WILL BE PLAYING IT
WHY DID I EVEN BOTHER TRYING TO MAKE A CONTROL DECK WORK
>thinking mana ramp is worse than "oops, I win"
2016 feels like it's gonna be a good year for Magic.
MY WIN CONDITION IS MOLTEN VORTEX
KARN EXILES IT, UGIN EXILES IT OVER AND OVER
I HAVE TO RESPOND WITH ENOUGH DAMAGE TO FINISH THE WALKER OFF, THEN GET STOMPED BY WHATEVER THEY DROP THE TURN NEXT
You aren't wrong and I'm not disagreeing with you, but most people would rather think of archetypes as existing somewhere within the spectrum of aggro, control and combo.
I would rather describe Utron as having strong elements of ramp and control, and weak elements of combo, but that's just me.
>yfw they reprint them for Standard so we can have <> copies
I'm surprised they didn't just nuke out moer shit with this
They must have know there would be a million salty nerds when they took out Twin, why not just shake shit up for real and just remove the other cancer decks at the same time.
Tron and Affinity warp the meta way more than Twin does, at least you can beat twin by holding a removal spell back on turn 3 or whatever.
>returning to dominaria
I fucking wish
>eldrazi fuck shit up on zendikar
>kill all recurring planeswalkers that appear in like every god damn set
>eldrazi break free and start going to other planes
>end up on dominaria
>first set based around emrakul fucking shit up
>second set based on _______
One can only dream, right?
>they aren't sure what modern would look like after the bans
Do they not atleast test the meta with the bans before implementing it? If they did they probably would have realized why control decks don't wory in modern.
What version of eldrazi is the best? Mono black or black white? Should I make an eldrazi deck and get rid of GR tron? Tron is a great deck, but im worried that it might get banned for being too good now.
>Do they not atleast test the meta with the bans before implementing it?
WoTC doesn't give a shit about formats other than standard and are not willing to do ANY work for them, yet they still want to control them.
They don't playtest nonrotating formats. They don't have the resources for it if and they prefer to be able to playtest Standard and Limited instead as those are actually manageable for them.
The ban list is a trial & error process for older formats.
>Affinity, Tron, and Infect start coming out
>Scapeshift get into Tier 1
>Storm finally becomes relevant
>Mfw Burn has a great matchup vs all of these decks
>They don't have the resources for it
They don't have the resources to test for standard/block either. Do you know that Khans block constructed was 70% Abzan in top 8s? Do you know that in the current standard, Abzan top 8s more than twice as often as Twin top 8s in modern? Playtest my fucking ass, that's a Redditor's excuse.
It is official, also no more Cloud of Faeries... All good decisions in my book.
>Storm gets relevant
>Gets into the T8 at some big event, maybe even the PT
>Immediate emergency ban of grapeshot, "its too oppressive in the format" and "its holding down creature aggro decks"
They hate storm with a passion, no way in hell would they allow it to ever do well ever again.
Any ad nauseam players? Should I start sideboarding in path of exile and hurykyl's recalls now that infect and affinity will rule? Tron is basically a bye for ad nauseam outside of turn 3 karn on the draw so I am not worried about that matchup and we already have a lot of mainboard burn hate.
If Burn has a great matchup against all of those decks, why would they ever become tier 1? A deck can't be tier 1 if it gets stomped by every tier 1 deck, because it's invariably be pushed out of tier 1.
Same, modern storm is already nerfed to the point of "why even play it", why not just ban grapeshot and warrens and let us have the fun cards back.
Ponder/Preordain would probably barely even have an effect on the format now that the only good blue deck is gone.
Exarch would've been the PERFECT ban. The deck is forced into using creatures that die to Bolt, and must now splash green for that guy from Origins who works with Twin. The creatures are weaker, and the manabase is flimsier.
Someone at WotC probably saw someone get a little too much value off of a snapcaster + twin and decided that had to go.
That and they probably did next to no testing for this. in the B/R annoucement they go all into detail about why they banned Bloom over Amulet, but for Twin they just say "its too good blah blah blah sucks for you guys"
You don't HAVE to run green, K command would help a lot in getting mites back from the yard so you could probably stay Grixis and do fairly well. You'd get blown out by a surgical extraction effect I guess but that's not the most common thing to see (at least not atm.)
Because WotC is retarded.
Making the deck weaker would have worked, it was 100% a tier 1 deck in modern and has been forever. But it hasn't nearly been a dominate force, very rarely is it close to 20% of the meta.
So in a year from now are they going to ban another top deck? For no reason other than to force people using said deck to have to buy new cards?
I get the feeling that this banning is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back. People have lost faith in Modern, won't play Standard, and can't afford Legacy. There's nowhere to go except dropping the game at this point.
They fucked standard with their jewy new rotation scheme
They fucked modern by banning cards out from under people with no warning or real threat
They fucked legacy by stopping coverage and refusing to not reprint cards because "muh beta duals"
Not really sure what their grand scheme is here but they're definitely not aware of wtf is going on.
My FNM plays almost entirely modern and it seems like people were dropping twin before the twin ban. In August nearly everyone I played was a twin deck but now the meta seems much more diverse.
looks like you're playing Blue Moon now buddy :^)
Blood Moon just should have been the ban, banning Twin was kind of unnecessary, although I'm glad I won't just be losing turn 4 anymore just because I was playing a deck with no hand disruption
Then they proved the necessity of FoW by allowing stupid linear fast decks destroy a format. There are so many good targets for FoW in Modern it's unreal. Even something seemingly innocuous like Goblin Guide. Lose 1 life, but over the course of the next 4 turns you save 8. That's no joke and takes the edge off a linear uninteractive deck.
>Aaron Forsythe @mtgaaron 33m33 minutes ago
>@Nisher I think our management of the format has been a factor in its success.
Hahaha this nigger needs to get OVER himself. Modern's success is down to Legacy's price barrier. That's quite literally all there is to it.
>FoW a Goblin Guide.
Found the guy who never actually played Legacy. Force of Will is actually a shitty card if your opponent is playing fair. It exists as a necessity against unfair (combo) decks in Legacy but you almost always side it out against aggro.
Seems the only way to get wizards to move is to kick up enough of a stink.
The format literally died today and will now be purely linear decks everywhere. If you think the complaints are bad now look forward to a month's time where the bitching will be at an all time high.
I'm fully aware that FoW is at its best against unfair decks. I'm also fully aware that against fairer decks, you just have to get as much value out of the thing as you can before boarding it out. FoWing a T1 Guide is a perfectly acceptable way of neutering the damage output of Burn if you have no other answer to it.
I'm already offloading half of my collection. I'm keeping Miracles and a few EDH decks, but a good chunk of cards are getting the axe now before the inevitable crash. Writing's on the wall, Magic is dying because Wizards are incompetent.
...So you think a card that would get sideboarded out after game 1 of every matchup is going to somehow fix modern? I'm legitimately confused about what you're trying to argue here.
That Modern is full of linear uninteractive decks that try to win as fast as possible, and that FoW shines in that environment. And as far as Modern goes, Burn is as good as an unfair deck because the answers to the deck are so few and far between. Same with Affinity, Tron, Infect, Scapeshift, Goryo's, Ad Nauseam, Living End, etc.. By the standards you're using to playing FoW at, these decks aren't that great, but FoW would destroy them. I'd board it out against Jund/Abzan. That's probably it.
>Isn't twin fairly linear?
No, it plays a pseudo tempo/control game.
The combo is to 1. Punish iiots who tap out on 3 and 2. To force your opponent to leave enough mana and removal up to deal with EoT deceiver.
It's one of the more interactive decks/combos in the format.
Deck even goes completely on the control route half the time game 2 and 3.
All the deck is guilty of is keeping the linear decks in the format down.
Have fun with tron vs affinty vs burn the format
No. 2 for 1ing yourself against a T1 guide is not worth it in any situation. If your opening hand has no answers to a turn 1 guide other than Force of Will (meaning it doesn't have a bigger creature, a lightning bolt, a path to exile, abrupt decay, terminate, dismember, or any other number of answers) you kept a shitty hand and should have mulliganed. Burn is a deck that you absolutely do not want to 2 for 1 yourself to answer.
>Burn is as good as an unfair deck.
There are two valid ways of reading this:
-Burn is as effective and powerful as an unfair deck.
-Burn may as well be considered an unfair deck [because it does unfair things]
The first case is irrelevant because fairness of decks has literally 0 relation to the powerlevel of that deck. The second case is retarded because Burn is an incredibly fair deck that attempts to win through an average of 5-6 cards (lands excluded) over the course of 3-4 turns. It doesn't 'win out of nowhere' and it doesn't have any sort of combo that bypasses the general expectations of how games play out.
Affinity and Scapeshift are also fair decks.
FoW would do a grand total of jack and shit to Scapeshift and Burn. It would be useful against Ad Nauseam and people who were bad at Living End. It would be situationally very useful against Infect and Affinity (more often useful against Infect) but not consistently a card you'd love to see. It would wreck Goryo's. It would do very little against Tron.
But that's wrong. FoW isn't good because it beats linear aggro decks, it's good because it allows you to develop your board/further your gameplan without the risk of getting combo'd out or immediately killed while you're tapped out. You wouldn't keep FoW in against Burn or Affinity, you side it out for lifegain or other specialized hate.
>Scapeshift is a fair deck.
It is literally the definition of unfair. Scapeshift cannot win without resolving its combo. It just uses things like cryptic and remand to make sure it resolves.
Really funny thing about that anon.
ESPN is looking into showing magic and one of the things retards complain about is fetchlands making magic boring to watch due to all the shuffling downtime.
Its actually even worse against ad nauseam because they can go off at instant speed. However, against any deck that isn't blue, tapping out doesn't matter because they will just combo off any way.
>>Heavy-handed punitive measures for violating NDA incoming
We'll ban MTGO for 3 years because it's a beta shitlord and applied the upcoming banlist changes ahead of time. All it's accounts are being deleted so that it'll know what's what.
>Don't forget to buy Oath of the Gatewatch coming out next week!
they're not wrong. shuffling then passing over to be shuffled again is pretty much over 50% of the time spent during MTG matches. the other 50% is the one guy with no outs slow rolling everyone while he shuffles his hand 17 times, picks up all his permanents and reorganizes them, counts everything, asks opps life total, cards in hand, cards in library, then finally fucking loses.
WOTC could solve a whole lot of their format issues by simply changing the rules to make it so you can neither lose life, take mill FX, or accumulate poison counters prior to the end of game turn 3. I mean, if they want the game to last 4+ turns, that seems the simplest solution.
>No. 2 for 1ing yourself against a T1 guide is not worth it in any situation. If your opening hand has no answers to a turn 1 guide other than Force of Will (meaning it doesn't have a bigger creature, a lightning bolt, a path to exile, abrupt decay, terminate, dismember, or any other number of answers) you kept a shitty hand and should have mulliganed. Burn is a deck that you absolutely do not want to 2 for 1 yourself to answer.
Found someone how doesn't play legacy.
The people who say 'force is only good against unfair decks' are just fucking memesters, it was the best card back in ice age block constructed by far (which had fucking necro in it and 0 combo decks) and I've never seen anyone board out all of their forces against me when I play fucking D&T.
NO forcing a goblin guide turn one is a fine play you fucking liar. Not all decks are going to play removal.
Shardless makes sense, Miracles loses pretty hard to aether vial though, so I'm not sure what I'd board them out for.
It's also very good vs lands as you always want to counter the turn 1 exploration and have backup against crop rotation.
Delver also occasionally likes forces just cause it's a good tempo play.
Honestly the merfolk matchup is really dependent on them getting a T1 vial speaking from the Tron perspective.
If they don't have it and are slowing down my mana I feel pretty good because then they aren't shitting out 2-3 lords to keep their side out of pyroclasm range.
as a casual player, i just hope for one thing:
This man knows whats up.
the retards at wizards don't have a fucking clue what they are doing any more and its going to crash and burn.
they can't get fat packs right, they don't understand modern, everything being printed in standard is garbage, they don't give a fuck about vintage and other formats.
then all of your fucking cardboard that was worth hundreds and in some cases thousands of dollars won't be sold any where, so there won't be any shops for it to buy singles or play fnm.
FNM attendance drops, people stop playing, magic crashes.
gonna be real fucking funny to watch all you finance fags cry in another year or so.
Oh and I didn't even mention how close chinamen are coming to perfecting fake magic cards.
The chinamen are aware and paying attention to how to spot fake cards articles that are appearing online.
It's just a matter of time boys.
Price drop of what?
Unless people are dumping their whole modern collection which while some people are going to do its only a drop in the bucket nothing is going to get better.
Hell this is going to cause a big ass spike in Tron/Infect/Affinity prices as idiots scramble to build the deck.
Are you off your meds? Did you even check the latest expansion spoilers? Jesus Christ, some of you guys are blind - it has one of the highest power levels in ages. So many powerful cards cramped up in one place. Besides that - Magic won't die, the babbies that quit due to their favoured deck getting the banhammer will be back soon enough.
Hello. I had the vials from legacy, so it wasn't that hard to dive in. Deck is safe, right? It would really suck to have something banned from it, right after I finished it.
Also, are there any cute tricks that the deck can pull off that I should be aware of? So far, Reejery seems like one of the strongest cards in the deck.
Reejery is always always over looked. I'd rather that be my first lord of the field. Harbinger of the Tides and Reejery isn't as good as you think it is. I just slam adept and seas before anything. I wish there were better counterspell options though.
This is why I wish MtGO were any good. Almost all of this shit gets cleared up instantly when you have a computer doing the clock and all the shuffling for you. Too bad MtGO is actual garbage.
I've never seen such a blunt ban in modern's history
Second Sunrise maybe, but eggs was honestly fucking terrible.
Good bans would have been Exarch and
nothing else and unban sword of the meek