>>44772546 I personally enjoy the cozy feeling of the fluff, but that is certainly a reason they decided to expand the universe. One of the interesting thing about the 40K universe is how many undiscovered corners and pockets there are to fill in yourself, which resonates well with a game that requires a lot of creative investment from the player. They are trying to create that same feeling with the Warhammer world's new cosmic scale. I don't think it will really pan out, but it will be interesting to see (I mean, separately from the actual game mechanics, which is a different discussion).
>>44772546 Yeah, that's a good thing. There are more factions in fantasy then in 40k, so at least one must appeal the person looking, and if you want to make you're super special snowflake marine chapter in fantasy, then kill yourself
>>44772546 Yep. That's one of the things that turned me off to it. Everything is defined and there is little to no room for your own dudes. At least with 40k there are so many undefined planets and systems, and even space marine chapters, and hive fleets, and necron dynasties, and all that. I have no problem making something up there and it being totally believable in the setting. With fantasy you had to study the lore closely to make sure you didnt betray any established fluff, which could be very difficult.
Not a fan of aos the game, but i can appreciate what they are trying to do with the setting.
>>44772813 That's the point you fanfic writing tumblrina, 40k is a setting where next to nothing gets resolved, fantasy has a definite story where conflicts actually get resolved. It's so autist like yourself can't have write your NecronxGuardsmen fanfic love story.
>>44772546 depends on how much space you need, if you want 40k's levels of token planets equivalents to destroy then it is tight.
But considering homefluff usually involves just a bunch of new cities/locations/characters and a some historical events thrown in in the thousands of years of background then it is enough.
It has plenty of space when you take the liberties for 3 things: -timeline free to bend from 2500 onward, ignoring constricting events like storm of chaos and end times as mere possibilities. -worldmap inaccurate for actual size and numbers, with the world having huge hollow volumes deep down the earth and the surface x times bigger earth. -chaos warping time and space to allow impossibilities to occur within campaigns, be them landscapes getting filled with magic flowing from the portals to be incongruosly bigger and stranger than what the maps suggest and time similarly so to justify what you need. But these 3 liberties are not paths everyone is willing or able to take.
>>44774446 Shows how little you know Warhammer tumblrina. Conflicts don't resolve in 40k, they freeze over and a state of perpetual war happens (i.e. Octavia). The wars and battles stagnate to the point where no one wins and defeats the other person (i.e. Damoscles gulf). In fantasy, major characters die all the time. There isn't a bullshit perpetual war because fractions will actually ally with each, and not immediately stab each other in the back (Empire and high elfs, Empire and dwarfs, Empire and Brettonia).
Like really, if you weren't such a newfag, you'd know one of the main motifs of 40k is stagnation. I think you're in the wrong place buddy, reddit is the other way
The Empire is equivalent in size to Germany, all of the Old World is about the same size of Europe.
There are uncharted depths to in interior of the Warhammer World, with the Dark Beneath, but the planet has always been pretty much Earth-Equivilent in size and scale.
Even back to 1ed WFRP, these maps all paint the same size picture.
Travel between towns and cities in the Empire has always been depicted as something that takes a few days or weeks, depending on where you're traveling to and how (taking into account the dangers of traveling through Beastmen and Mutant infested woods). Not months or years.
The maps could be off a little bit here and there, depending on the version that you use, but it'll always come out to about Europe size for the Old World - though some of the proportions will change. But hell, you get the same effect in modern maps depending on what style you use.
And as for the Chaos effect mentioned in (>>44774247), there's no way to account for that. The Chaos Wastes can be as big or as small as they need to be. The poles have their own size based on the size of the planet, but once you get in there...well shit, Karag Dum.
>>44772546 The fluff in Warhammer has a weird relationship with the troop and equipment variations of every army. You used to be able to make an army with one or two troop types by mixing up the equipment. Now it is more like one troop type for one use and none of the customization that makes armies your personal contribution to the setting.
But seriously I want to see more bandit armies made only of the empire box sets.
>>44777071 Except that you're wrong. So very very wrong. Conflicts resolve in 40k as much as they do in fantasy, and the setting remains stagnant in both. They're both settings, not stories.
Holy shit I really wonder who I am talking to sometimes. Can people really be this stupid? Do you think he just goes onto the internet to blatantly lie? Why would he do that? Does it fulfill some sort of idiotic fantasy?
>>44773339 Not him but calling someone a fanfic writing tumblrina because he enjoys freedom to create a story for his own dudes in a setting is pretty uncalled for. The spirit of the warhammer settings to be able to forge your own narrative within the setting. The books and official fluff is only there to build the world and give you more material to work with, not dictate what you are supposed to be playing and how you're supposed to be playing it.
>>44778697 >The largest mountains in the Old World....tallest of these peaks climb almost 50,000 feet from the plains below. >50,000 feet >50,000 FEET. >50,000 FEET = 600,000 INCHES >600,000 INCHES = 1,524,000CM >1,524,000CM = 15.24km, straight fucking up.
For comparison, Everest and K2 are in the 8.8km range.
>>44779018 It just tells me that the warhammer writers really have no idea what they are talking about. There's a reason there are so few mountains as high as Everest and K2, and there's a reason those are the only 2. I guess though if you throw magic into the equation, all bets are off.
Here's a thought for everyone discussing the size/scale of the Warhammer World:
The distance between the Great Ocean and the Gulf of Medes, at the closest point, appears to be approximately 1,000 miles. Grabbing the nearest map I have of Warhammer World I estimated the distance the poles are apart. By my best guess, there’s about 20,000 miles between them. I do realise there are other maps with scale, but I’ll assume that this is the correct one for now.
The Warhammer World
Diameter (poles): 12,732 miles Circumference (poles): 40,000 miles Surface area: 509,295,818 square miles
Diameter (poles): 7,899 miles Circumference (poles): 24,819 miles Surface area: 196,017,163 square miles
Nearly 2.5x the size of Earth.
With that in mind - what is going on with the gravity?
If the Warhammer World had a similar density to Earth, the gravity would be commensurately higher.
For the WW to have an Earth-like gravity, the total density would have to be significantly less.
How much empty space is there in the Dark Beneath the World?
>>44779193 Gravity. If mountains were to get any higher they would be crushed under their own weight.
Olympus Mons, the tallest mountain on Mars, is much higher only because the gravity on mars is much lower. There are no big mountains on the Moon because there is no tectonic activity and the moon is much smaller.
>>44779738 I still think that the entire concept of 'Azyrite' and specific energies in magic is fucking retarded. All magic is one in the same, and it's mere through application of certain directions and certain favourable conditions that shape what the actual outcome of using it is.
>>44779776 He's a godly figure clad in gold and swinging around a weapon that radiates eldritch energy doing dumb things. He's a fucking clone of the God Emperor, and he is most definitely not the glorious, bare-chested, magic-despising glorious barbarian conqueror that Sigmar is.
>>44779643 REMOVE GREENSKIN remove greenskin you are worst ork. you are the ork idiot you are the ork smell. return to darklands. to our darklands cousins you may come our contry. you may live in the zoo….ahahahaha ,goblins we will never forgeve you. cetnik rascal FUck but fuck asshole ork stink goblin sqhipere shqipare..ork genocide best day of my life. take a bath of dead ork..ahahahahahGOBLIN WE WILL GET YOU!! do not forget waaagh .Grimgor we kill the king , grimgor return to your precious zharrr….hahahahaha idiot ork and goblin smell so bad..wow i can smell it. REMOVE GREENSKIN FROM THE PREMISES. you will get caught. kislev+empire+tilea+bretonnia=kill goblin…you will waaagh/ tupac alive in badlands, tupac making album of badlands . fast rap tupac badlands. we are rich and have gold now hahahaha ha because of tupac… you are ppoor stink ork… you live in a hovel hahahaha, you live in a yurt
tupac alive numbr one #1 in badlands ….fuck the darkands ,..FUCKk ashol orks no good i spit in the mouth eye of ur flag and contry. 2pac aliv and real strong wizard kill all the ork farm aminal with rap magic now we the badlnds rule .ape of the zoo empror karl franz fukc the great nurgle and lay egg this egg hatch and goblin wa;s born. stupid baby form the eggn give bak our clay we will crush u lik a skull of pig. badlands greattst countrey
>>44779652 No, what you are doing is trolling in a really obvious fashion.
The End Times and Age of Sigmar has no applicability whatsoever to a discussion of Warhammer Fantasy. Bringing them up as a 'source' is nothing but a pathetic attempt to annoy people who actually like Warhammer.
>>44779848 No, all magic is, essentially, Chaotic energy from the Realm of Magic. The existence of the 'Winds' is a false construct established by the Elves in order to rend down Magic into a force usable by humans, using a simplified version of their own magical system that emphasizes specific aspects within Magic in order to provide a method of using it without corruption. Also, in certain locations, certain aspects of Magic are emphasized while certain materials resonate with specific aspects of magic.
Humans already had their own magical talents prior to the establishment of the colleges, which is seen in places like Kislev, which utilizes their own unique brand of magic that functions outside the idea of the Eight Winds, alongside a lot of minor hedge mages using magic that falls outside of the Eight Winds as well. All magic one you egg.
>>44779938 Your post boils into "You don't get to bring it up because I don't like it".
Sorry pal, ET and AoS are connected to WHFB as they happen in a single universe and timeline. If you don't like official fluff, then feel free to bang your head on the wall. It might solve your autism.
>>44780054 >Up until The End Times killed it off, yeah, it was stagnant. It really wasn't. Except if you count the time where the GW studio retconned an event because the players decided that the good guys won.
>>44779970 >The existence of the 'Winds' is a false construct established by the Elves in order to rend down Magic into a force usable by humans
Incorrect. The Winds are a real thing. The lie that the Elves told was that they can't be blended. Elves do it all the time in High Magic, but they didn't think Humans could handle that shit so they told them 'Nah mate, it's one colour at a time'.
>Humans already had their own magical talents prior to the establishment of the colleges,
This is true. Illusionists, Elementalists, Alchemists ect ect.
Human magic used to be pretty general. The Elves taught the Empire to specialise - focus on one wind to get stronger results for battle.
>>44780151 From what I can gather most people who like the game side are morons who think the rules being so awful it scared off anybody who cares about balance is a good thing. Because only WAAC assholes want the game to have good rules.
On the fluff side I have no idea, most people who liked the Warhammer setting are rightly disgusted at the shallow, cynical tripe it was replaced with.
>>44778396 >It always disappointed me that there wasn't more imperial political fuckery in the setting.
Like what? The constant battles between the Emperor and disobedient Elector Counts? That bit where there was multiple competing dynasties for hundreds of years and the Empire was dead as a unified body?
>>44780187 >Incorrect. The Winds are a real thing. The lie that the Elves told was that they can't be blended. Elves do it all the time in High Magic, but they didn't think Humans could handle that shit so they told them 'Nah mate, it's one colour at a time'.
The Winds can be blended? Wow, it's almost like all that magic is the exact same thing then!
The Winds of Magic focus on the Elven approach to magic, which is using a purified form of Dhar in the form of Qhaysh. Essentially, Dhar is raw Chaotic magic, the 'Winds' are the method of purifying magic into a safer form, and Qhaysh is purified magic.
Magic can be affected by place, equipment, mindset and all that jazz, but functionally, all magic is the same, while the Winds are a means of purifying it. There are different ways of doing so, such as the Kislev Ice Mages, which shows that magic isn't just various 'winds'.
>>44780196 Holy shit, I can't if you're being ironic or you're actually mentally retarded. You could say that picture is 40k fan art, and a majority of people would believe you. They basically look like space marines. AoS is so shit, no originality at all
>>44780205 Pretty much. Everyone I talked to that plays AoS didn't play fantasy. They moved from 40k to AoS because "oooooh it's just like 40k but with lizards and mummies!!!"
>>44780325 Pretty sure it's been stated that various winds blow stronger or weaker at various times and that wizards find it easier to tap certain winds in certain locations. Such as Shyish in a graveyard or Aqshy in a volcano.
You would think they would hire someone capable of actually doing good art for their pointless new game. But I suppose its silly to expect that to be handled less incompetently than anything else about it.
The only official timeline is End Times for the TT game which is what matters and GW cares about. When discussing WHFB lore you don't get to dismiss End Times and AoS unless you want to continue being autistic.
>>44781500 Nope, your RPGs are third party material which is irrelevant to the discussion of the GW's own main setting. Nobody cares about RPGs, it's the TT that's the focus of both the company and fanbase.
>>44781681 >As a TT game is over but as a it continued as a story/setting in AoS. If WHFB players want to play in a live setting, they have to play WHRP setting. Therefore what's relevant is the live setting. You may be butthurt about it but that's how it goes, neither GW nor its shills can't really do shit about it.
Warhammer World Diameter (poles): 20,490 km Circumference (poles): 64,374 km Surface area: 131,9070,057 km^2
Earth Diameter (poles): 12,712 km Circumference (poles): 39,942 km Surface area: 507682099 km^2
But let's math this bitch out.
What we need to know is the Mass, Volume and Density of the Warhammer world. Let's assume that the gravitation acceleration is the same at 9.81 m/s2.
So let's find it out.
Earth Diameter (poles): 12,712 km Circumference (poles): 39,942 km Surface area: 507682099 km^2 Density: 5.51g/cm^3 Volume:1.08 km^3 Mass:5.972E+24kg
Based on the numbers for the Warhammer World (WW) we can figure out:
Warhammer World Diameter (poles): 20,490 km Circumference (poles): 64,374 km Surface area: 131,9070,057 km^2 Density:3.42 g/cm^3 Volume: 4.44 km^3 Mass: 1.52E+25 kg
So, from the looks of things - with the Warhammer World being so much bigger but with the same gravitational constant, it has a significantly lower density - a mere 62% the density of Earth, spread out over nearly 411% of the volume but with a mass that is an order of magnitude higher.
No shit the center of the Warhammer World is a solid metal lump. It would have to be.
But the rest of the inner workings of the world must be literally riddled with holes, caverns and empty space.
>>44782002 >Does GW care about and focus on it like their TT (Warhammer and 40K) settings?
Well, they've come out and said they are picking it back up and supporting it again.
Additionally, Warhammer Fantasy has about 6 canon different timelines. The primary timeline is the one that follows End Times and Age of Sigmar, because that's the one that's currently primarily supported.
But that doesn't make any of the other timelines less official. They're just secondary.
>>44782119 >Both the RPGs and those vidya games are worthless when discussing the main setting.
And this is why you fail.
Both the RPGs and Video Games have to follow a certain standard. They are allowed a lot of leeway, but they still carry weight when discussing the settings as a whole.
Thinking that the RPGs and Video games don't count is like saying that Black Library novels don't count and you should only discuss what was released in the Army Books. Or that Forge World isn't valid.
To give you a better idea that might sink into your head: think of Star Wars.
With the release of The Force Awakens, a lot of previously released material is no longer canon. It is, however, still setting relevant, as the same ideas and themes carry over and it's worth taking into consideration with the direction they are following.
>>44782401 >Nope, the only canon timeline is what GW decides, not you guys. >The rest are a joke setting that was never serious, vidya fabrications, and third party crap. >None of them are supported by GW, except Bloodbowl.
Which is probably why Blood Bowl, WFRP and the Video Games are all licensed by GW.
Warhammer isn't an open source, dipshit. Everything produced has been backed by Games Workshop.
It may not be used for the Tabletop game, but that doesn't mean that it's not canon in their respective timelines.
>>44782421 >Both the RPGs and Video Games have to follow a certain standard. They are allowed a lot of leeway, but they still carry weight when discussing the settings as a whole.
No, they don't.
Not as much weight as the main setting lore.
>Thinking that the RPGs and Video games don't count is like saying that Black Library novels don't count and you should only discuss what was released in the Army Books. Or that Forge World isn't valid.
GW, BL, and FW are all the same company and as per GW's own policy the only entities empowered to create IP/canon for the setting. What's within their books is the main setting.
> It is, however, still setting relevant
But are relevant enough than the actual canon? When discussing the true canon, you go with the true canon first and foremost. You don't rage at anons when someone mentions Midoclorians and throw an autistic fit.
>>44782613 >Not as much weight as the main setting lore.
Not as much weight as the main setting lore for the main setting.
For example: In 1ed WFRP - The Enemy Within, Karl Franz was depicted as a weakling who was just being used by a power behind the throne.
Now clearly, that's not the case with the tabletop - or even with 2ed WFRP. But it was still a part of the 1ed setting and carries some interesting connotations as to what could happen if the Empire was ruled by a different power.
In Blood Bowl they discover the teachings of Nuffle and it offers an alternative version of the modern Warhammer world were war has been replaced by Grid Iron.
In Storm of Chaos we see the repercussions of a Chaos Invasion that decimated the Empire but was ultimately thrown back - offering an interesting view as to how people survive and cope in those environments.
All of this is canon in their own timelines, just not for the End Times/AoS one that GW uses for the tabletop game.
>GW, BL, and FW are all the same company and as per GW's own policy the only entities empowered to create IP/canon for the setting. What's within their books is the main setting.
Exactly. And WFRP had to pass throw them and be permitted by them for creation.
>But are relevant enough than the actual canon? When discussing the true canon, you go with the true canon first and foremost. You don't rage at anons when someone mentions Midoclorians and throw an autistic fit.
True, but you don't go 'Hurr durr, the Force is not at all magical or mystic, it's all midochlorians'.
It's still relevant and worth discussion, because it also demonstrates the evolution of the setting. It's important to remember that the Warhammer world is an evolving and changing one.
>>44782656 >Them being licensed means jack and shit. None of their creations are canon unless GW ports them into their setting.
Wrong. GW licensed and supported their creation, so they are canon within their own continuities and part of the large Alternative settings available to Warhammer and 40K.
They can't just make shit up and add it in - it has to pass through GW filters and censors first so it fits in with what they want for the setting and creation.
But if they create something, pass it to GW and say 'Is this okay to put into a licensed Warhammer product that will be released with your branding on it' and GW give it the okay and release it - guess what! It's canon for that AU.
>>44782870 >Wrong. GW licensed and supported their creation, so they are canon within their own continuities and part of the large Alternative settings available to Warhammer and 40K.
Nope, not canon to the continuity that matters which is GW's.
Nobody cared about the whole alternatives settings except anons very recently. The thing is GW doesn't care. It gives them approval to make a game about their setting and do whatever to make it work. GW get the money and whatever inventions and lore-rape they create matters not for GW.
>>44782870 Nope, just that whatever happens in those games are not canon to GW. Like I said, third party companies are not empowered to create canon/IP.
They got the approval just to create the games and make them work somehow
>>44783214 Blame that idiot who spreged over the End Times. All of this would have been avoided if he just shut the hell up.
>>44783158 >They have to use pre-existing canon and IP, and have it approved by GW.
Except that the quote was in response about whether FFG or third party companies works can be considered canon. The third party companies invent stuff or twist the lore to make it fit into the games. So you should know why GW has reservations in acknowledging them as canon.
ET and AoS are as important to a discussion of the growth of the Warhammer setting as Storm of Chaos or WFRP.
>FFG has produced new WHRP books to replace it. I am still waiting for the pdf. by the way.
Then google it?
>All material within have mostly overwritten and retconned. Rendering it obsolete.
WFRP hasn't been overwritten or retconned - it's specifically a separate timeline. Has been since 1ed.
2ed WFRP updated the timeline to 2525ish, and set it Post-Storm of Chaos.
But WFRP is distinct from WFB. Material from one is worth considering for the other, but you wouldn't say End Times is Canon for WFRP for the same reason you wouldn't say The Enemy Within is canon for Age of Sigmar.
Different timelines, both canonical within their own settings.
You are the RPG dude. You should have bought the new FFG books already.
>ET and AoS are as important to a discussion of the growth of the Warhammer setting as Storm of Chaos or WFRP.
More so considering that it is the main canon.
>WFRP hasn't been overwritten or retconned - it's specifically a separate timeline. Has been since 1ed.
It as has Khaine as human god and the Slann as the Old Ones. I think we can dismiss it as overwritten. Also I think it had half Orcs?
>2ed WFRP updated the timeline to 2525ish, and set it Post-Storm of Chaos.
Has originally released a year after Storm of Chaos then brought back by FFG for bit then killed off in favor of their books.
There is but one timeline that matters to the warhammer. If you want to discuss obsolete things, then you have your WHRPG thread over there.
I mean the other anon said you wanted a living setting. WHRP is dead and no longer supported. If you want to play a living setting, then play the new FFG books. Though, I bet they wouldn'r be including Storm of Chaos in their lore.
>>44783589 >You are the RPG dude. You should have bought the new FFG books already.
And why should that mean I have pdfs, or would want to upload them?
>More so considering that it is the main canon.
Depends on what your discussing. If you're discussing stuff set during the End Times, or Age of Sigmar then definitely. But if you're talking about stuff like the founding of the Warhammer World by the Great Old One, then it's more open for interpretation.
>It as has Khaine as human god and the Slann as the Old Ones. I think we can dismiss it as overwritten. Also I think it had half Orcs?
Yes, which is why it's worth using in discussing the evolution of the setting and it's origins. Just because some stuff has been corrected, doesn't mean none of it is relevant.
>Though, I bet they wouldn'r be including Storm of Chaos in their lore.
FFG picked up with the same setting they used in 2ed. Their biggest contribution was a change of the mechanics they used.
>>44772546 The fluff of Warhammer Fantasy was amazing, especially since half the world was unexplored and lots of it was unknown. The fact that it had a very well defined setting and theme made it easy to create identities in the world.
If you read many of the black library stories set in the warhammer world such as Felix and Gotrek, Blackhearts and many of the older stories, you'll find it to be a rather colourful and even flamboyant character to it while remaining exotic.
The warhammer world was original and amazing and what made it great was that it had that old English fantasy theme of feeling mature and authentic while retaining mystique and was also able to relate the viewer into the story intimately. It was a feeling I can also identify with a lot of traditional folk stories and fairy tales that didn't focus too much on explaining the source of all the crazy stuff that happens, but more on showing you the story development and introducing new crazy things.
>>44772651 Very sad too. The new setting feels too "marvel'y", it definitely killed the old medieval feel of Warhammer. It now just feels like that setting where all the Norse Gods lived in the Thor movie. People now just love coming up with futuristic cheesy shit without even making it cool.
>>44780834 I'll remind you that: >dwarves:not neckbeards (and sometimes not manlets) >space marines: not fa/tg/uys >orks: not autistic fucks >eldar: not beautiful alpha athletic successful people >imperial guard: not normies
Why do you think the Eldar are bashed so ruthlessly in the lore while being perfect 11/10? Why do you think most of /tg/ hates elves? It all comes down to the degenerates that usually play and make these games. Tolkien for example, was not a degenerate so elves got adequate respect in his setting. I've always been grossed out by Space marines and everything they do from their appearance to their actions, it exuded greasy fat fucks with neckbeards.
>>44779708 It's trying so hard to mix together the 1600s style stuff Warhammer Fantasy had with some new epic, viking Ragnarok style badassery, but it falls apart since it's so similar to the old, but amazingly different from it.
>>44779741 I think the saddest thing about about AoS is that despite being the first emperor of the empire and then the god of the empire, they have to called Sigmar a God-King so people don't confuse him for 40k's God Emperor.
>>44787792 GW seemed convinced until 10 years ago that the Internet was just a fluke that would go away and not have any impact on the general market. I'll say that they probably are clueless about a lot of things.
>>44788022 >Both End Times and Storm of Chaos was shitty. Ignore both of them.
They weren't done well, but at least something was tried. I preferred the Nemesis Crown and the Quest for Albion better as far as campaigns go. At least there was some interesting stuff for both SoC and ET.
>End Times was also more retarded than Storm of Chaos.
Eh. End Times didn't have the same 'Us vs Them' feel that Storm did, which I was happier with, but we didn't get a chance to play through End Times like we did with Storm, which I think was retarded.
>>44788022 Storm of Chaos is good for the RPG, the aftermath makes an interesting setting. I just wish we could go back to being so innocent that the cheating with the chaos results was suddenly a horrible and shocking thing again.
>>44779776 >>44779801 >>44779885 >>44779914 These all look like illustrations made to feature an archetypal demon, which then had Sigmar photoshopped on in a convenient spot with no real regard for scale or facing.
>>44788901 Storm of Chaos was HUGE, pretending otherwise is just absurd. Having entire nations destroyed without any serious resistance like End Times did is not how you make an invasion 'serious', its just bad, spiteful writing.
Or are you saying the fact it failed because it relied on actual game results makes it small?
Having played during the Storm of Chaos.....no. Storm of Chaos felt like the battles fought had meaning, where the advance of the Chaos armies could be held back and the fate of the campaign was not predetermined.
.....except for the bit where they decided to functionally teleport Archaon's main force to Middenheim, because they had planned *plot* to occur and the defending armies were too damned good to let him near otherwise.
>>44788022 >>44788003 Nagash was pretty good,Glottkin was kinda strange but models were great. Khaine and that skaven one went downhill,and Archaon would be good if not the ending Also they really fucked up Drachenfelts character
its wierd but it feels to me they canned the setting which was rich and had a lot of unexplored stuff just so Black Library can write stupid weekly short stories about giant golden homos fighting in forests of mirrors and blood without repercussions you know what I mean?
>>44789513 >.....except for the bit where they decided to functionally teleport Archaon's main force to Middenheim, because they had planned *plot* to occur and the defending armies were too damned good to let him near otherwise.
Fucking this, I am still bitter that GW decided they HAD to stick to a pre-determined narrative. It's like the bloody star wars prequels in how perpetually annoying that is somehow.
Could have been just as interesting and more fitting to have Chaos stuck in a grinding, WW1 style attrition war barely across from the boarders of Kislev, trying to break through until they lost confidence in Archaon and started infighting on a massive scale.
Which is kinda what happened but with a big retarded finale outside Middenheim (because they at least stopped short of fighting in the streets as planned) rather than it making much sense.
>>44794973 I've never been a fan of Sigmar as Conan desu. He was chieftain of a tribe with like, iron age tech levels and a king both by birth and conquest. Keep the iron thews by all means, but put a beard and some proper regalia over it, with all the furs and fine clothes dwarven gold can buy.
>>44772546 Not really. If anything there's a shocking lack of detail.
Look at it this way: the Warhammer World is basically our world at a certain point of time except we lost 90% of recorded history and had to fill in the gaps with elves and dragons. There is AMPLE space to make your fluff, up to and including entire nations.
>>44795188 I think it was hard to keep up two games going with a lot of fans at the best of times, and GW didn't make things easy. It'd be hard to convince people to buy two fairly expensive armies and rulebooks to play two different games. I heard that WFB was doing horribly, even with the End Times trying to drum up new interest, so I'm not sure even the old good GW could have salvaged it.
That said, I don't know why people are acting like it's all gone. Thousands of people still play older editions of D&D - why can't you just pick up the last edition of WFB that you thought was good and keep playing it as it was? I'd love to do that. It'd make that army of Bretonnians I wasted my money on worth it.
While I agree the setting can be a bit tight when it comes to wide-ranging events, I personally enjoy the most out of it when running small stories (we play using 2e), something for which the highly-detailed nature of the Old World is very good.
The brutality of the system and the mix of hopelessness and humour of the setting lend themselves well to tales of mismatched bands of survivors who were not meant to be doing whatever they are doing (the doing of which is most likely going to get them killed soon enough).
So while a nation-toppling plot about the PCs bringing down the Count-Electors, stealing the Grail or trying to prevent a second Mordheim happening over Altdorf might be hard to squeeze into without having to alter the setting a lot, a quiet tale about a rat catcher, a demagogue, a retired marine, a characteristically sissy elf, and a pie-eating weirdo halfling trying to use a strange object to temporarily animate corpses (which they had previously "decorated") so they can sell them as hookers at a profit to a travelling dwarf carnival, ultimately having everyone killed by said corpse-hookers without anyone ever noticing they were gone, is very easy to fit in.
>>44799964 The Shadowlord destroyed his body in anger after realising that his newfound freedom was just another kind if prison and abandoned the city. So the daemonic activity and the Possessed cult probably died down a bit.
>>44800375 To be honest, there is a fetish for everything and piss is not even among the really weird ones. There is a lady who seriously consider the Eiffel Tower to be her ideal husbando and apparently married the construct.
>>44800194 It was really weird the results kept coming out that way too, I mean it's not like Chaos had a bad army. Or vampire counts, or Orcs (especially the black orc supremacy list that was done for the event along with a bunch of others).
>>44800400 Delay, maybe, but they should have been delayed so much the invasion would have fallen apart, not got to Middenheim. And they didn't delay anything. They let Chaos through at every single stage of the campaign cos gotta have that climactic finale clusterfuck. Including the obligatory major character acting completely out of character to preserve the status quo, namely Grimgor only counting coup on Archaeon rather than just outright killing him as any orc, especially a ruthless and cunning black orc warboss would. That still annoys me more than pretty much everything else about the end of it somehow, and I didn't even play orcs at the time.
It's still kinda amazing how grumpy I can be about a fairly inconsequential event from over a decade ago though. Something something waste of potential.
>>44792586 Actually if you really want to get into this, The Empire, Tilea, Estalia, The Wasteland, Cathay, Nippon, Araby, Kislev(sort of), and Ind are at their respective Renaissance levels of technology. Bretonnia is stuck in the high middle ages, and Albion is around pre-Roman Britannia levels.
Dwarfs are a mixture of viking age Scandanavia and Industrial Revolution. Elves have ~~magic~~ so they don't count. Orcs are low middle ages, Chaos is just magic vikings.
>>44789801 Brettonia is the only Old World human faction still in the Middle Ages though, with pretty much everyone else (not-Italy, not-Spain, not-Netherlands, not-Russia, etc.) comfortably within the Early Modern period. The Northmen and Albion are Late Dark Ages/Early Middle Ages.
At least for humans and Dwarves, the "medieval" period has long since passed, though I don't even think Elves would have a concept of this kind of thing.
>>44810689 >character Replace character with faction
Where were the brets charging on idealizing the concept of chivalry and honor even in spite of their goddess turning out to be 3dpg elf? Where were the dwarfs descending from the mountains to help the nations of men choosing loyalty to the oath for the alliance over the protection of their physical goods and homes? Where was the golden tombs king retaking what was his by right and might from nagash itself before the end took over? Where was the savage impact of WAAAGH BEaST? Where were the lizardmen actively doing shit?
>>44811639 this, a hundred times. The elves have a almost 1000 year head start over humans and yet are technologically inferior to even the brets. I understand they may not have the same progress to their technology and humans were kick started due to their trade with the dwarves but c'mon. The war of the beard should have at least forced the elves to develop some kind of new technology that would have allowed them to go up against dwarven firepower
>>44811639 >>44811684 They're not lagging behind humans or dwarfs in terms of military might and are probably miles ahead in quality of life, so why would they go to the trouble of developing the industry necessary to support gunpowder weapons and steam engines when they're doing just great with sailboats and torsion powered war machines and copious hand-wavey magic?
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