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Warmachine/Hordes General
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Let's Have Another Painting Thread!!!

Warmachine/Hordes Books, No Quarter, & IKRPG
>textuploader <dot> com / 5f980
PP Youtube (gameplay tutorials, tournament coverage, and announcements)
>https://www.youtube.com/user/PrivateerPressPrime
List building at
>https://www.forwardkommander.com
>http://schlaf.github.io/whac_online/whac.html
Latest Errata
>http://privateerpress.com/files/WM%20MKII%20Rules%20Errata%20Aug%202015.pdf
Steamroller Rules
>http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/steamroller-tournaments
The Giant List of Podcasts and Blogs
>http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?76379-Warmachine-Hordes-related-blogs-websites-and-forums
Table of contents for all NQ issues
>http://www.privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?4313-Table-Of-Contents-For-All-No-Quarter-Issu
Your Dudes
>http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-2-3-2014
Abridged Lore
>gargantuans abridged:http://pastebin.com/XPKMKYUc
>hordes abridged:http://pastebin.com/6D1fwSgv

Lexicanum Iron Kingdoms Lore wiki:
>http://warmachine.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page
>>
Man this thread is dead. So they haven't shown the cover of the No Quarter that releases next week. Any theories? Think there's something big they're going to announce?
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>>44764923
Probably not. There's not much content on the horizon until lock and load officially hits.

I have to drop this game anyway, might as well.
>>
>>44763582
Kind of makes me wish I had a non-shitty camera. Might motivate me to get back on my Skorne painting spree.
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>>44766451

I think best thing you could do to improve your photo quality is setting up a white background for your models. Just some printer paper sheets should do the trick
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>>44766708
The best thing I have to actually take the image is my Nexus4 camera though. And that is pretty terrible. Well, I'll give it a try nevertheless once I get home. We need more OC in here.
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>>44763582
Bumping before I go to bed, I'm really interested to see other anon's armies and paintjobs.
>>
>pMakeda
>10 Nihilators
>6 Incendiarii
>Bronzeback
>Gladiator
>Cyclops Savage

Why do I get crushed hard constantly? Are there any tricks I'm missing with this or am I just getting fucked on rolls? Yesterday I put carnage on and trampled my gladiator through 5 weapon masters assuming I'll kill them. Then I proceeded to roll like shit, only killed 1, then got decimated by free strikes.
>>
>>44767629
Well either you miscalculated your chances, or you indeed rolled like shit. Also do keep in mind that models you touch during a trample do not get to make free strikes.
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>>44767681
>Also do keep in mind that models you touch during a trample do not get to make free strikes
Wait, what? In the rules it seemed to imply that anything which survives the trample gets a free strike.

Oh fuck I just checked and the next sentence after what I was reading would've saved my ass that game.
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>>44767751
Okay, here's one more trample trick: You know you can only move over small based models with a trample, right? But you make attacks against every model you touch during the trample. So if you for example trample across 3 Gun Mages (small base) and end your trample in B2B with a Boomhowler (medium base) you cannot trample any further, but you do get to make trample attacks against all 4 models.
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>>44767629
Isn't trampling like the one good thing the Rhinodon was made for?
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>>44763582
bit of an oldie, before Harbinger was fully built.
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>>44768471
It can also thresher. I'd play it with Mak3 if it had 1 more MAT.
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In your expierence, what model/unit (barring 'casters and 'locks) have given you the most trouble on their own?

As a khador player, it has always been my friend's Shredders, he usually just sends 4-6 at my blocks of guys and ties them up. They're not hard to kill, but they are major inconvenience when I'm trying to capture a point.
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>>44768710
Any model with recursion can be a major pain in the butt.
Recursion is stong in any game system, and quite often it isn't taken into account of just how powerful it is.

Single models?
I'd say any Khador clamjack; when it puts its toe in a zone, they're really hard to shift.

Kayazy are horrible; if you don't have things that ignore defence, then its almost impossible to deal with 11 dudes that are def19, but on the next turn acrobatics through your lines and remove almost anything (POW12 kitchen knives thanks to gang)

Widowmakers, wow. OP plz nerf.

even the lowly manhunter; if that dude ever gets to your line he just fucks things up srs.
>>
Let's be real here for a second, does anyone actually give a single shit about Sturgis?
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>>44768905
I just bought the Eliminators as an introduction to the Assassins... They are probably going to b my new favorite unit to take with Butcher1... or anyone with Iron Flesh.
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>>44768920
Eliminators are a very nasty pair.
You have one decent opening to get them at range before they make contact. Knock out the grunt and the leader has to take a test.

Otherwise your up shit creek.
def17 base in melee, worse if you can spare iron flesh on them, oh but there's a downside to iron flesh -1SPD, so no charging or running. unless you cycle it.
Not like they need iron flesh anyway.
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>>44765975
>I have to drop this game anyway, might as well.

What factions do you play, and can I have them?
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>>44768710
If he spends 12 points on a major inconvenience, tell him this: "Thank you."
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>>44768999
Wait, for cereal? My friend's been running his Iron Flesh'd, Desperate Pace'd winterguard turn one every game.
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>>44769391
Other anon misspoke, you can still run while suffering a SPD debuff, you just can't charge.
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>>44769391
No, you can still run, just not charge. Other anon is wrong about that.
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>>44769391
oh sorry I dun goofed.
It's only charging that isn't allowed.
p46 of the rulebook.
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So I have the opportunity to pick up a Convergence army on the cheap, but I've never played with or against them before. They seem much more dependent on list construction any of the other factions though, from what I'm reading. Anyone use them, or have any advice? I dig the models, but I'm leery of just dropping in.
>>
>>44770064
No, just take anything you think looks kewl.
You need everything, but there isn't much to get.

Then you can have all the fun, because it is a nicely balanced force.
They won't ever get any new releases though.
>>
>>44768909
He's fun to play and is at least interesting as the first cross faction caster. Cryx and Cygnar players don't know how to have fun though. I play him with a bunch of Mercs and he's a blast.

In the context of tactics though? No one gives a fuck about Warmachine Tactics.
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>>44763582
I haven't really painted much Warmachine lately and I think I've shared everything on here already, but here you go
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>>44770399
Oh, well all right then.

That Prime Axiom is making me moist, I love the model and the rules. And the Puncture rule that keeps showing up seems like a wonderful fuck you to heavy ARM infantry. Still trying to figure out what caster I want.

>>44770491
Tactics is what got me into the tabletop game oh god don't hit me
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>>44770537
>Tactics is what got me into the tabletop game
It's fine, it's just not a good game that failed to deliver on its promises. Welcome to modern video games

Dawn of War got me into table top games
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>>44770587
Yeah, I noticed after playing a few games locally just how light Tactics is on adherence to tabletop rules. It's pretty to look at, but got bored of it pretty quickly.
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>>44770642
It does have a pretty cool version of disruption though. Instead of the current rule disruption stacks and each instance of disruption on your jack is one less focus that can be allocated to them
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>>44768909

He's the one caster that gets reasonable use out of Cyclones.
With enough covering fires and similar effects, his feat is comparable to Caine1 when it comes to infantry removal.
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posting my work in progress

though I cant see it getting much better than this.

sorry for shitty camera
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>>44770520
I also started painting this Dwarf for a Kings of War army. Wrong game system though
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>>44770758
maybe a better picture
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>>44770758
It's not terrible. Give everything a wash with a black or brown wash. After it's dry, clean up the high points leaving the shadows that are created. It's not difficult and makes it look ten times better. GW makes quite good washes out of the bottle.
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>>44770839
I already did that senpai :(

Im not saying its much better, but it seems to look better IRL than in these pictures...

or maybe im just blind
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>>44770758
Looks good so far. Get a brown wash that you like and hit all of the gold, red and tusks. The black skin already looks dark enough so I think you're good there. You can then do some highlights on armor
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>>44770999
okay, I didnt realise I was meant to go over the gold- thanks for the tip
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>>44771025
It'll add a lot. I use the Citadel Argax Earthshade or whatever the fuck it's called. It works really well for armor and red colors. You may want to water it down a tad for regular cloth depending on how dark and dirty you want your dudes to look
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HI GUYS daily reminder that I EXIST.
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>>44771083
>>44770491
>No one gives a fuck about Warmachine Tactics.
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>>44769026
Khador and Trolls. I'm not selling anything. There's always regret when you sell your collection away.
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>>44771083
>No Nemo

Game dropped.
>>
>>44771083
Like the faggot son or the feminist progressive liberal daughter, you're the family member nobody wants to see but unfortunately has to knowledge exists, ever hoping they suffer some kind of fatal accident because we were too naïve to abort you in your infancy.
>>
I see all the assholes that play this game still congregate here. You guys know that everyone else who plays this game is awesome right? Only you guys are a bunch of dicks
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>>44771347
welcome, sit down with us.
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>>44771083
what's the point of girl striker (stryker?)

doesn't that faction already have a perfectly acceptable girl 'caster to use
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>>44771379
I tend to lurk and observe. Occasionally when some one does something stupid I'll vent here anonymously. Can't say mean things in public and be a PG.
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>>44771025
Yeah when I said everything I meant everything-metals, cloth, rope. I do a super heavy wash also. You just have to clean it up afterwards. Here's one of my gladiators.
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>>44771524
I like the blue, very cool looking model
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>>44771524
And the GW technical paints are pretty good too. I used the blood and the cracked earth paint on my Skorne.
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Elves reporting in. I've finally finished with the primary paint jobs on all of 'em, now it's mostly touch-ups and basing. Took forever, though it's my fault for having so many Houseguard to get through. No regrets though. They were on sale and I like their design. Not sure when I'll have disposable income again, but there will be more elves involved.
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>>44771568
Thanks man. I really like how they turned out. Now they just need some solid releases to get me more motivated to finish them. I have a whole Fist of Halaak list to paint too.
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>>44771404
She's a slightly more survivable journeyman. Jakes lives to serve as a focus battery to get another 'jack on the field.
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>>44771622
And a pMorghoul beast list, with only two beasts finished. Maybe the Desert Hydra will be fun to play with, I'm not sure it will be competitive though.
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Does anyone have the picture of bradigus that says "time for wold rape" or the picture of grisel that says "wants the big meaty fist"?
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>>44771996
>Wanting to continue the forced memes
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>>44772088
I need it for... Private use
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>>44772131
Check the archives?
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>>44768710
The fetish wasp usually fucks my shit up, and its only 4 points.
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>>44771347
This lot is no worse than the usual lot.
I bet they are all just as nice IRL as the rest.
There's at least 2 PGs and even hungerford passes through apparently.
Moaning on the internet isn't a reasonaly barometer of how well a game is received.

I wonder if the anon that posts "ded thred ded gaem" in every fucking WMH thread isn't one of the PGs (or hungerford) just for topkek.
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>>44771996
bradigus isn't raep tier anymore.
>Your* so 2015 nigga.
*problem officer?
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>>44772831
Ah the Futalisk.

Best /b/east ever. aka: I'm not just going to kill your dude, but "bite down on the pillow i'm going in dry" anal rape them and cum inside.
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>>44773133
This is why if I don't bring a Scythean or infantry to deal with enemy troops, I bring a pair of these. Partially for what they do, partially for the lulz.
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>>44771347
back to reddit with you then
>>
Funny thing just happened in the forums:
One faggot asks, whoa if you use an offical PP spray template for a 6" spray then u'r cheating!! (because overmeasuring)

The usual troops pop in and say yes of course, imprecise etc

then out new pal hungerford pops in, and ill translate this one: "pull your head from out yo ass, it's ok to use the template"
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>>44772831
Hey guys, newb here, I was wondering when new units and models are released, do I need to get the latest book for it, or is there a master list that's updated?

If so, which books should I get to look at the full gamut of Legion units and such? Are the new units compatible with the other books and the main Legion book?
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>>44773073
>I wonder if the anon that posts "ded thred ded gaem" in every fucking WMH thread isn't one of the PGs (or hungerford) just for topkek.
Can confirm, I do it all the time. I occasionally post dumb stuff just people argue and bump the thread.

>>44773837
This has been a thing forever. I'm surprised people still don't know this one

Hungerford is awesome btw
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>>44774677
It's an expensive enough hobby, I recommend going here and downloading what book you like from your browser.

> textuploader <dot> com / 5f980

Put a . in where it says dot then remove spaces. Put it in the address bar and check out the list below. Most models are out but usually they have to be announced on the site as to the date. The Warmachine official hobby book is No Quarter which is as slow to come out as my now openly gay cousin.
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>>44774677
You don't need the books to play the game, faction books and expansion books just provide fluff. All model data is on the cards, which come with each model. The only book you might need is either Prime/Primal for rules, and the PDF free on the PP website.

Model releases are whenever PP feels like it/gets it shit together. We're in a weird situation right now where models from newer books are coming out before models that have been announced at least a year ago.
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>>44771347
Don't act like you're not actually in this thread.
>>
So i played a game last night for the first time with Nemo 3. Loved it. had a full unit of LightningSwords Infantry with UA and WA, and the captain poking around at the back. Dunderhead and Stormclad. 35pts and all was going well, but I feel that i needed a buff to my tardpit / shielding unit, I was thinking an arm buff from Jwarcater? but what other option do i have to buff def or arm from solo's?
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>>44775494
Yes, get the junior. And for the love of Christ, learn to write.
>>
What's the best way to use a titan gladiator against infantry: trampling over them, or walking up and punching lots of them?
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>>44776373
Bit of both, it really depends on the situation.

Trampling will often be better, but there are plenty of situations in which you won't want to
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>>44776373
Gladiator is really a heavy killer, in a pinch tramples work and you can also slam stuff into/through infantry. It's better off leaving the anti infantry duties to nihilators and incindiarii though
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>>44776586
>nihilators
Last game I played was against Menoth with these fucking annoying cunts that can be sacrificed so the Nihilators never get to trigger Berserk. And even then, they were like 14/18 because of Defender's Ward. Literally niggertits. Like, how the fuck is a 12/16 at base small infantry even fair.
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>>44776586
>Gladiator is really a heavy killer
To continue, doesn't this imply that I'm bringing heavies purely to kill heavies? Are there heavies that are good against infantry? If infantry is good against heavies, why ever bring a heavy that's good against heavies? Especially when their heavies are behind a wall of infantry.
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>Watching 50pt battlereport on Youtube, Cygnar vs. Skorne
>Skorne list is varied, but has a good pile of heavy warbeasts
>Cygnar brings two Stormwalls, journeyman, full forgeguard and pNemo
>Stormwall with 5 focus proceeds to remove units every round

I have yet to come against lists with two colossals, but fuck that looked painful.
>>
>>44776672
Well the only reason errants are disgusting is because of the in faction defender's ward. Base defense 12 arm 16 is a pretty terrible statline except against blasts. You can take Nihilators with pXerxis and put defender's ward on them and get 15/15. It's relative. Take some Incindiarii and set em on fire and watch as they ironically burn to death.
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>>44776838
Well I don't own too many models, but the 2 infantry units I bought were nihilators and incendiarii, who were in the same game but on the other side of the table. Perhaps my almost complete lack of enemy faction knowledge is the problem then. And at the time I was using pMakeda so they did indeed have defender's ward. They got eaten alive anyway.
>>
>>44776373
Don't forget about 2-hand-throws. If you want to get rid of 2 infantry models that are <6" apart, it's usually the best choice.
>>
>>44776759
Skorne is probably the best faction equipped to deal with double colossals like that. They can actually do it in one turn with Molik Karn in a Makeda list.
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>>44776759
I've played against doomy3 double GK. Its really anoying for about 3 seconds, untill you remember that gaspy2 has para and the bloodhag ignores half the feat
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>>44776705
What, really? What are you using the rest of your army for? If you want beasts to kill infantry, you can try out Molik Karn or some Sentinels. What you should be doing is having your infantry clear the enemy infantry so your heavies can kill their heavies and/or caster. I really can't say enough about Incindiarii, they're really great.
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>>44777101
Yeah the Incendiarii did a lot of work last game I played. I think I'm just being too impatient in trying to smash things with my heavies. I just want to trample over the infantry, land in front of a heavy, and punch it until it dies.
>>
>>44776705
Depends on the heavy you're talking about. I don't know about Skorne, but with Legion a Scythean 'can' be used against other beasts, but prefers to go after infantry because of Chain Attack: Bloodbath. Carniveans are also good in melee against bunched infantry because of Assault+3 initial attacks. However, the Neraph is not good at fighting infantry or heavies. They're good for hunting down solos or lights. Zuriel is also good for going after infantry as opposed to armor.

Every piece has it's strengths and weaknesses. Many will be good at one role and suck at another. Well rounded pieces do exist (ie. Carnivean), but are often expensive in cost as a result.
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>>44777313
Well I generally bring a gladiator and bronzeback to the table because point for point they seem super powerful, but maybe that power is at its best when focused on enemy medium/heavy beasts. I guess I should stop trying to build so one dimensional and smashy, but I'm lacking a lot of models. My last game I used:

>pMakeda
>Gladiator
>Bronzeback
>Cyclops Savage
>Nihilators
>Incendiarii

And that's it. No Agonizer, no Handlers, no MOLIK FUCKING KARN, no solos, just damage. Then I ran my gladiator over weapon masters, rolled shit dice, killed none, and lost shortly after. I need a Cyclops Raider/Brute, Krea, all kinds of stuff still. Then I have to paint it :(
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>>44777821
Mhm. As much as the regulars here like to stick themselves into one or two lists per faction, each faction has a bunch of options to handle different situations. You 'can' play HULK SMASH with your Skorne, but you might have some difficulty using it against certain lists. But you can also play that 'with' a bit of infantry clearing to balance things out.
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>>44777821

no handlers is a pretty big mistake. they're very very very good and make your list even more smashy for 2 points (+2 STR and free charges is really hard to argue with)
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>>44778746
My theory is that if I run other titans with a bronzeback, I don't need fury management because they can't overheat in the first place. I can run gladiators as hot as I want and leech from the bronzeback, and he keeps the gladiator in line. And if I don't need the fury management, that makes the handlers look worse.
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>>44778797
It's two points more for the +2 str free charge, than for the fury management. I mean, it's two points.
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>>44779006
I'm going to come up with a list from scratch for pMorghoul or pMakeda. The only other warlock I own is Naaresh who's eeergrgehrgggrhgh. To be honest I was avoiding using Molik Karn because I couldn't be fucked with all of his abilities, but if he's as good at infantry slaying as I initially thought he was, then he might just be the perfect heavy beast to throw out in front of a gladiator who can clean up the heavies. Unless Molik can just charge and clean the cunts up anyway with a huge combo strike. Him and Morghoul could probably chew infantry to pieces.

>Morghoul (OBLITERATES infantry)
>Molik (kills infantry/heavies)
>Gladiator (kills heavies
>Incendiarii/Nihilators (just good)
>Agonizer
>Handlers
>Something else I don't even know FUCK

Sounds much better.
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>>44779006
>. I mean, it's two points.
two hordes points, which is really 4 points due to PP's errection for that side of the game
>>
Does a Naga Nightlurker have any use in a pThags list?
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>>44779263
Well a more direct comparison would be the 2-3pt beast handlers to the 2-3pt choir of menoth. I think the choir pulls a little ahead, honestly.
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How could I add on to my budding Khador army for the most fun for around $50-100? Mainly looking for fun, not tournament competitiveness.

So far I've got Butcher1, Butcher 2 is in the mail, Scorcha, a Devasator, Spriggan, the jacks that came with the starter box, a war dog, winter infantry/their UA and Kovnik Joe. Also some Eliminators.

I'm really thinking of ordering Butcher 3 (I love the guy's rules), to use with my current lists, but I'mnot sure if I should actually expand more with other units/jacks. From my understanding, it seems like I can just replace my current warcaster with Butcher 3 and let him loose while the rest of the army does what they do. I dunno.

Oh, also have a conquest on the way.
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>>44779493
>Fun
>Butcher 3
Maybe for you, certainly won't be fun for your buddies.
>>
>>44779432
you forget that the choir all need to sing the same song, so they really cost twice as much
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>>44779580
I think you're underestimating how powerful a blanket +2/+2, no nonmagical shooting, or no spells are
>>
>>44779493
>>44779551
Yeah... Butcher 3 is so cool, but when I place him on the table haley2 and pDenny come out.
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>>44779551
Really? Why's that?

I thought WMH was a game where you could pretty much bring anything and it was still balanced. That's kinda what drove me to start it up.
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>>44779704
wtf, pDenny is in the damn Cryx starter box, is she that bad?
>>
>>44773349
>partially cuz I'm bad
>>
>>44779718
Because he is just a killing machine, use Energizer almost every turn to get the BG to where ever you want. Feat when you're within 5" of your target, Silence of Death, Doom, Blade, Win.
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>>44779742
Crippling Grasp is a cunt spell.
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>>44779742
Nah man, she is that good. Butcher 3 and Haley2 (before nerfs) were considered models that assholes played to win and win only.
>>
>>44779771
What's BG
>>
>>44779797
>>44779742
>Butcher 3
Shit, i meant pDenny.
>>
>>44779718
You don't understand how an almost impossible to stop nonlinear 18"+ assassination, coupled with an incredibly hard to assassinate vengeance relentless charge unit is not that fun to play against? Or he can choose to wipe out your army and then feat and camp? Playing against B3 isn't playing warmachine, it's playing assassinate or die. Nobody wins scenario against him
>>
>>44779800
battlegroup.
His unit and 'jacks can move up to 3 inches.
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>>44779742
Shes like one of the best casters in cryx (2nd or 3rd I'd say)
>>
>>44779833
Could it be that you just suck at the game?
>>
>>44779890
Admittedly, B3 is pretty brutal.
The game is reasonably balanced, but there will always be Haley, B3, etc.
>>
>>44779890
Could it be that you're just an idiot? I don't lose often to B3. I just have to kill him before he kills me. If you play scenario against him you're going to lose, almost every time.
>>
Pendrake Peeps models
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>>44780088
Here are they're rules for quick refrence
>>
>>44779493
Ok so the consensus is that butcher is way too good for casual games, so in his place what could I buy instead to flesh out my khador more? What are some other staples or jacks that I will use quite a bit?
>>
>>44780146
>literally a better blythe and bull
hordes op desu
>>
>>44779982
I play scenario with Lucant against him all the time.
>>
>>44780183
Iron Fang Pikemen with Black Dragon get 2 of 'em.
Eyirss2 is a great merc addition.
Doom Reavers + UA and Fenris is awesome
Great Bears... GET THE GREAT BEARS
>>
>>44780183
Just by B3. Adapt or die motherfuckers.
>>
>>44780227
Don't need the UA for Doom Reavers.

One you learn how to deal with Berserk on them, the UA is generally 2 points wasted.
>>
>>44780221
And lose. You get one decent turn against him, and he gets to choose which one it is.
>>
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>>44763582
WIP
Can someone tell me what model this is though?
I think it's a khador but IDK
>>
>>44780254
Spray and Tough for 2 points on a squish unit, i'll take that shit all day.
>>
>>44780279
Hardly. Non-Colossal Lucant pretty much shuts down the assassination and the super one turn go, and Lucant has plenty of tools to kill the rest of his army.
>>
>>44780227
>Iron Fang Pikemen with Black Dragon get 2 of 'em.

2 of what? The pikemen or UA?

Also, what's with the pikemen? Are they black dragons or pikemen? They seem to have 2 pictures. Are they a dual it?
>>
>>44780323
How so? Half his spells do nothing to shut him down. Heavy troops get annihilated. I'm not seeing it.
>>
>>44780473
So, UA's add special rules to a unit.

So you've got your basic Iron Fang PIkemen unit, that have their own rules.

Then, you can add a UA to them to give them extra rules.

The regular UA or the Black Dragon UA. The fluff of the Black Dragon UA is that they're a specific kind of Iron Fang.

They're the same unit either way, the UA just gives them some extra rules.
>>
>>44780285
It's a Warhammer Imperial Guard tank, I think it's a Hellhound.

Certainly not Warmahordes anyway, we don't do Tanks much
>>
>>44780473
The new box comes with the full unit and your choice of UA's.
>>
>>44780518
Thanks, I got that part. When I look at the kit online though, there's Iron Fang Pikemen and Black Dragons that are the same kit. Do I need to choose which ones I build or are they the same unit, different looks? Sorry, just confused.
>>
>>44780495
Father Lucant, Divinity Architect (*5pts)
* Corollary (3pts)
* Inverter (8pts)
* Inverter (8pts)
Transinfinite Emergence Projector & Permutation Servitors (9pts)
Transinfinite Emergence Projector & Permutation Servitors (9pts)
Optifex Directive (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Optifex Directive (Leader and 2 Grunts) (2pts)
Reciprocators (Leader and 4 Grunts) (9pts)
Attunement Servitors (2pts)
Enigma Foundry (3pts)

For an infantry heavy B3, of course. Is it teching against him? Nope, it's ADR.

But anyways. Watcher means that an aggressive Lucant pretty much prevents B3 from coming in: if he ends within six inches of Lucant, an Inverter is going to walk over and punch him in the dick. Even better, Watcher doesn't expire until I make an attack, so I can dance around all I please.

TEPs remove pretty much any infantry from the table, including Black Dragons on mini feat.

Lucant's feat is quite good at preventing the rest of B3's army from accomplishing much, especially with good servitor placement on the TEPs(placed properly, they can prevent even reach charges in certain areas.

Now, B3 can push a flank super hard to kill a TEP himself, but if he's on one flank, that's fine with me, because it lets me start to work on those scenarios. I can clear out shit every single turn, he's only got one turn to make the magic happen super well.
>>
>>44779493
Ruin is honestly pretty fun, and I really enjoy Vlad3, especially with Sprayponies.

Old Witch is great too, and also works well with Sprayponies and what you already own.

Nothing wrong with playing B3, but he is pretty dang powerful, so might not be right for your group if you prefer to keep it casual.
>>
>>44780285
>>44780538
It's a Chimera, and yeah, nobody cares.
>>
>>44780622
The kit comes with both UAs, so you can swap them either or.

You basically get both units in the box.
>>
>>44780622
They're essentially different units.
The core unit is the same ( Irong Fang Pikemen ) but the unit attachments (Officer and Standard or Black Dragon Officer and Standard) give them different rules and make them play quite differently.
The two UAs have different models, and people usually model the whole unit slightly differently in order to make the difference clearer
>>
>>44780698
>>44780728
Ok cool, appreciate it. So I basically get 2 units in one box, allowing me to swap em out in games. That's pretty sweet.
>>
>>44780647
You're really not going to do much to a triple clamjack list tho, and ADR is only in certain events.
>>
>>44780814
Are clamjacks cheesey? I'm finding that they're some of my favorite jacks that Khador has.
>>
>>44780814
If it's triple Clamjacks I can just swap to a Cipher instead of a TEP and muck around with my other stuff as needed and then use rough terrain to bog the Clamjacks down. I can just slam them back with the Inverters and then hit them with a rough terrain template so they go absolutely nowhere.

And B3 still can't come in and play.
>>
>>44780791
Hmm well you get 1 unit in the box that you can interchange. That's why I said two, the FA of IFBD is 2 and the vanilla is 1, i would take two BD over the vanilla but that's just me.
>>
>>44780876
Nah they don't do tons of damage but are super tanky and hard to remove. Nobody should have a problem with them. One thing to remember is they can trample and slam without actually opening up.
>>
>>44780592
Bloodgorgers or bane knights
>>
>>44780791
Idk if you go on Reddit, but /r/Khador is a great place for new comers to the Motherland! to ask for advice.
>>
>>44780907
You keep assuming that you can swap around your army to counter whatever. Most events don't use ADR.
>>
>>44781043
I only play in ADR events at this point man, so of course I think of it that way.

And it baffles me that so many events don't allow it, considering how much it helps a lot of the weaker factions.

But I have a Synth list that can pretty handily kill B3 paired with this, no matter his list, but that's not what you were asking for.
>>
Man-O-War Drakhun... How good is he? Does he suffer from the MoW syndrome of being relatively bad?
>>
>>44781547
He's okay. If your opponent isn't familiar with him it's pretty funny. He's pretty good in Vladimir 2&3 lists too
>>
>>44781547
Pretty good. He hits like a heavy warjack for far less points. You can throw him on a flank and let him threat quite a bit. Counter Charge can see him do some nice gotchas as well.
>>
>>44781547
He's the one good Man o War.
>>
>>44780088
Bwahahaaaaaa..... That guy is Arnold from the Magic School Bus!!
>>
>>44778797
Just remember, the fury you don't pull off of a beast still limits what that beast can do, even if it won't frenzy. You'll have less bought attacks and boosting.
>>
Would it be possible to run pScorcha with 3 jacks and widowmakers? I'm looking to increase my army size for a League that I'm currently in for when the time comes, though I've only got a budget of around $60 at the moment. I was figuring to get Widowmakers and a 'jack of some sort (likely a Grolar).
>>
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>>44785471
Possibly, though ideally you'd want to try and squeeze Andrei Malakov in there. Khador doesn't run 'jacks well, so putting one of the 3 'jacks on him instead will lighten the load on pScorcha. Or, skip the third 'jack, pair off one of the two existing 'jacks with Andrei, and use your remaining funds to get something else too.
>>
>>44780088
>dat fucking carnivean illustration in the book
>>
>>44777821
In all honesty, what you need for that list to work is just handlers. Everything on top of that is just gravy.
>>
>>44779551
Speak for yourself. I enjoy playing against butcher3. It's quite the unique experience. Like performing brain surgery on yourself. One slip-up and you're fucked.
>>
Generally speaking, am I better off with a reclaimer or a hierophant with pReznik?
>>
Hey guys, I got a group getting together for an Iron Kingdoms RPG in a couple of days, what are some good ideas for a group beyond 'generic adventuring party' and 'we r mercenaries k'?
>>
>>44787626
Pirates.

College students so you get wacky Corvis university harry potter shit with random study abroad stints later in the campaign.
>>
>>44779718
>I thought WMH was a game where you could pretty much bring anything and it was still balanced. That's kinda what drove me to start it up.
Nope. If you don't bring the right tools, then you will probably get your ass handed to you.
The good news is that all the factions have plenty of tools.
The bad news is that some tools are better than others, so you will use those all the time.
>>
>>44787626
Secret Agents. Where every player represents a different group. Cygnar, Khador, Cryx, Legion, Circle. Everyone has to pretend to be as normal as they can be though to avoid suspicion.
>>
>>44786996
You're better off not using Reznik at all.
>>
>>44787888
Or they could all be Khadoran spies in some secret Cygnaran unit thingy. And everyone thinks they're the only spy in there. And the player characters are the only people actually in that unit.
>>
>>44787626
Like others have said pirating is fun I'm running that right now. You don't have to worry about nationality or language all that much and everyone can make just about anything they want.

I've also done a guild of Monster Hunters working under Alten Ashley. It's a lot of fun because you can include careers from Unleashed too and it isn't a huge deal.
>>
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>>44780199
Pretty much everything in the game is better than Blythe. Also, these guys are Mercs too
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>>44791439
anon be honest, did you draw that in?
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>>44791476
Draw what in?
>>
>>44791476
Tongue cock.
>>
/tg/ I want to build a warmachine army with cryx's goreshade lord of ruin list and I'm looking at what units to get. Bane riders are an obvious choice, and I was planning to get either bane knights or thralls depending on which one I like the look of more.

My question is this:

Are mechanithralls worth adding in as well? Or are two units enough as long as I throw in some jacks? Should I include the unit attachment if I put in a unit of them?
>>
>>44791476
I think he did, it looks like a black line in ms paint lol.
>>
>>44791768
McThralls are so worth it. UA or not, you will want a surgeon.
>>
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>mfw Russians leaked the SR2016 beta
>>
>>44786996
Heirophant. He needs to camp, and it makes ignite cycling a lot easier on him, as well as his assassination runs. The only focus-intensive jack I run with him is a Reckoner, plus reclaimers make easy targets.
>>
>>44794087
proof nigga. We don't buy yo shit.
dis ain't battle college.

Although, having said that, it's plausible. Don't trust russians with nothing.
Look, for example, leave a crimea lying about, and BAM russia takes it.
>>
>>44795005
Google is your friend

warmachine.ru
>>
>>44795141
damn ruskies.
>>
So this here errata. Will it happen? Will the bomb drop?
How deep will the ocean of tears be?

What are you secretly hoping for?
>>
>>44795824
Tier nerfs.
Changes to colossals to make them more interactive
Really anything to freshen up the game state, which I feel has gotten a bit stale.
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>>44795824
It will happen 'soon'. Anything you may have heard about the actual contents of the errata is baseless speculation
>>
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So I've noticed that folks very rarely run Battle Engines - are they that bad, or are they just not as good as other options?

Still gonna run a Storm Strider, but it makes me wonder if I'm not gimping myself.
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>>44770758
>>
Writing an IKRPG. Any advice or guides?
>>
>>44796580
I love the Khador BE, and the Circle one isn't bad, but they're both a pain in the butt to transport anywhere so I tend to only use them at home.
>>
>>44796458
yeah yeah soon.
The thing is, it's so vague and baseless, it could be anything, so really, what can the pleb do but "assume"

At least PP know what the pleb expect/want, the question is; do PP want the same thing?
>>
>>44796580
I find it a pity that PP didn't play around with battle engines a bit more before dropping colossals.

I really think that game was fine before colossals, and they haven't really added anything interesting to the game.
>>
>>44796580
Ret's Cricket isn't bad either. The problem is, most of them have the armor and health of a light, the cost of a heavy, and weapons/equipment that want them to get uncomfortably close to danger. They can be useful, but for many they're just too niche to justify.
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>>44763582

Running an Errant huh?
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>>44796164
Tier nerfs; hell yeah i agree.
The first tier lists in forces books were blatant "buy more models" pushers.
Which could have been good if PP had pushed for larger sized games 75 then onto 100 etc.
Pushing up the ante and all that.

But they didn't, they seemed to forget that they are supposed to sell models, and brought the game down to a nice little 50pts.

They could have still worked it with 3 lists even 4 lists becoming the norm, but oh no, have to listen to the competitive players. They're the one bringing the money in...Oh wait, no they aren't !

The newbs and the collectors are the ones that will spend moniez 4 toy soldiers.
>>
>>44797131
the best ones are menoth, to some degree cygnar, the croc one of course, and the convergence one.

Something they have in common, they are autonomous.
If BEs had a way of boosting, they would be decent, but as it stands, a heavy WJ/WB is usually better.
>>
>>44796458
>baseless speculation
So EE isn't getting nerfed?
RoW isn't getting nerfed?

It was probably you who told us "menoth and trolls salty" but if you can't give even a slight bit more, there isn't much we can talk about.

I mean the only thing trolls and menoth have in common is tough and self sacrifice.
Is it a nerf to self sac? and /or to tough?
>>
So question - what's your favorite model from your least favorite faction?

Convergence I usually find repulsive, but for some reason I love the Fridge.
>>
>>44797558
tough question. I suppose the faction i like the least has to be skorne.
But there are a couple of lovely models. the elephant heavy warbeasts are great, the pterodactyl too.
I'll settle for the gargantuan it's a beauty.
>>
>>44797558
Probably Bloody Barnabas from Minions. From my own faction the model I like the most is nightmare and the model I like the least is deathjack
>>
>>44797411
I haven't posted any false rumors. Only thing I've posted in the last few threads is that any rumors you've heard are bullshit.
If you believe anything you're a fool.

No credible rumors have come out, just trolls trolling trolls
>>
>>44795141
Dammit this is why we can't have nice things.
>>
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>>44796580
They're not bad, they're just specialist. To get the most bang for your buck you'll be building your list around the Battle Engine.

It also doesn't help that nobody local to me seems bothered to read specialist rules. No cavalry, no artillery and no battle engines because they're they don't run identical to infantry.
>>
>>44796735
I suggest asking your group very early in your writing process what they want to play, and treat the party as important as individuals when writing content. Beyond that, we'd need much more specific details to offer advice.
>>
>>44800725
Wew lads
>>
any news on a new hordes faction?

I'm bored
>>
>>44800725
That's a nice body for a Ravagore conversion. Ironically that would make the extra bits from a dragonspawn box an upgrade kit for Proteus.
>>
PP's announcing all these resculpts and we still don't have models that were in books that are years old.

Bravo.

That's part of the reason this game is dying. A model being a book doesn't mean shit when we won't actually have it for years.
>>
>>44807898
What models are missing that aren't in the latest 2 books they're working through now with sculpts? Their system is to let the artists do what they want for the most part, but I'm drawing a blank for anything missing that isn't from the newest books they're sculpting through now.
>>
>>44807404
There's going to be a new Hordes faction??

Seconding, does anyone have information on this?
>>
>>44808147
Not the other guy here. They've not said they're doing a new Hordes faction, but they have said they would like to do a new Hordes faction and specifically that they want to explore more of the world.

The community has assumed for a long time there will be more Hordes factions just so there's equal number between WM and H. There's really no obligation for them to do that since everything crosses over, and all new WM factions after the big 4 have been in the fluff since the original Witchfire Trilogy.

To wet your appetite some, the last I heard from Doug Seacat was early last year where he hinted that Pendrake has just returned from the continent to the south known as Xu. All we know about Xu is it's the most likely homeland of the Totem Hunter.
>>
>>44807967
Off the top of my head. Mad Dog (and the rest of the new Berserker chassis)
>>
>>44808314
last rumor I heard for new hordes was demons somehow
>>
>>44807967
Cough, Inflictor, cough
>>
>>44808390
>>44808358
Conceded on Inflictor, and the Indictor. The Grolar is just about to release, and using that alongside the Reliant gives strong implication these warjacks are all dual-kits with resculpted older model. That's not relevant.

The Mad Dog and the Rager are both from the latest WH book man, that's not exactly years old.
>>
>>44808314
>>44808385
I always wondered about Demons in the Iron Kingdoms setting, this could be cool if it happens.
>>
>>44808385
They confirmed that it was NOT infernals
>>
>>44808593
when did that happen?
>>
>>44808608
a while ago in their primecast.

Basically 2 info we know is that new hordes faction is coming and it's not Infernals.

beyond that, everything is super tight lipped
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>>44808576
Demons in Iron Kingdoms are called Infernals. They've shown up for a long time now, there's some real cool art of them in the old Monsternomicons. We've been told no by the devs though, but community is still hopeful. They would be difficult because they don't fit into the WM or H style of things, they're far more alien and the last time PP wasn't sure they could fit one faction into the existing system (Skorne into WM) they wrote a whole new game around them (Hordes) and brought forward their plans for something else (Cryx) to replace them.
>>
>>44808636
dang.

Infernals could have been cool
>>
>>44808461
Yeah. I actually want to try out one or two indictors, and I also want a guardian that's not the terrible metal version. But, maybe in six months or so. Make it an even three years.
>>
>>44808729
They better have paladin units in the next book
>>
>>44808729
I was happy waiting for the more recent warjacks once it became clear they wanted more dual kits. When they came out of nowhere with a plastic dual kit I was pretty blown away by the quality (it probably helps the Stormclad is my favourite warjacks and the old model was balls). Now they've started resculpting all of the first gen character heavies at the same time and I can see there's a lot on their plate but I'm excited for every months releases.
>>
>>44808663
infernals would have been good. Because they have been an integral part of the lore for a while.
How they would or should be translated into an "army" is another thing.

Maybe they shouldn't be armies, but "allied" units and solos with wicked ass powers
>>
>>44785657
The Khador Ladies don't run more than two jacks all that well, but the men are a different story.
>>
>>44810461
This is a thing. A lot of players seem to think that any given army has to have minimum WJs and all the infantry.
But it's just wrong. You don't have to have minimum WJs, in fact having 2+ WJs makes a good force every time, because you have to build around your investment, and in doing so you create a balanced list that will never get one rounded...Well unless you killbox yourself and let the opponent score 3CPs
>>
>>44763582
No thanks, I can afford real Warhammer.
>>
>>44810990
I know you're a troll but Warhammer is legitimately the worst game right now. GW thinks they can get another 5 years out of me with their half assed rulebook?

Yeah. Bye Bye forever retards.
>>
Skorne Units:

What's a good start? I like the idea of the venator slingers.
>>
>>44811992

I have no personal experience with Slingers, but I've seen them used to decent effect with eHexeris, or as a cheap throw-away unit with Mordikaar.

Units you could get good use out of with any Warlock though? Nihilators, Incendiarii, the Tyrant Commander + Standard Bearer, and (obviously) Paingiver Beast Handlers.

Nihilators, imo, are the best of Skorne's single wound troop options. The other options aren't bad per se, but I think they're more niche.

Incendiarii are just obscene. They can erase swathes of enemy infantry with 6 3" AoEs with Continuous Fire, can threaten heavier targets (or Warnouns) with Combined Ranged Attacks, and are even decent in melee in a pinch.

TyCom + SB is a good tool box unit. There's not much native Pathfinder in Skorne, so being able to dole that out is incredibly helpful. Standing up Nihilators that made Tough is always good, and an extra 2" of threat on Incendiarii is also nice.

PGBH don't really need an explanation. They manage your fury, and make your beasts hit harder. Nuff said.

Hope that helps!
>>
>>44797411
Its disconcerting when I hear rumors from reputable sources that my faction is going to get knocked out of the comparative scene by errata.

Take with a grain of salt

>Warders lose Weapon Master
>Mountain King is required in order to get discounted lights in EE
>No changes to RoW, but sr2016 terrain rules nerf of pretty hard
>Bradigus tier losses the free fury on turn one

Get fucked trolls, salty tears indeed
>>
>>44763582
Mk III when?
>>
>>44812851
Likely never. Big errata next week though
>>
>>44811992
Keltarii are our best jam unit, and the Minions' Croak Raiders/Gatormen Posse can hit pretty hard while being self sufficient, just remember to bring a Taskmaster solo.

Steer away from Karax, Slingers, Reivers, and Rhinodons until you feel comfortable with the faction tool set.
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>>44800725
I don't care about the rules. I will get him and he will be pretty, just like my Archangel.
>>
>>44814254
That's my reasoning for getting the Hydra. He is at least playable though.
>>
>>44816201
Desert Hydra or Myrmidon? I have to agree on the Desert one bring a damn pretty model.

I also like the myrmidon for focus shenanigans.
>>
I'm really excited about the Seplicur, that we are never getting. I have been flirting with the idea of throwing it in with my favorite castor, gaspy2. It poops out McThralls and has the potential to mat fix, which can supply mat and so fixes that lich doesn't. Plus Gaspy can keep it safe from infantry with the clouds. I just don't know how to make it work
>>
>>44817150
Yeah, the Desert Hydra. You know, when they eventually figure out how to cast it.
>>
>>44812842
Warders losing weaponmaster is the part that I don't believe at all.
>>
>>44817295
I'm sure you mean the Sepulchre, right? I'm pretty sure seplicur isn't a word.
>>
>>44817325
What's funny is that's the one that came from my most reliable source. I told him he was full of shit

Again, take with salt. I'm sure Troll players will have plenty of it
>>
>>44817325
Seriously. Warders would be literally useless if they lost Weapon Master. There is no chance in hell that's true.
>>
>>44817347
Great feedback.
>>
>>44763582
I know this may seem like the ultimate betrayal, but can Warmachine models be easily kitbashed with 40k models?

I play necrons and recently discovered how kickass the iron lich models look.
>>
>>44818405
Not *really* if only because the scale is slightly different and wmh liches are all metal which I always thought was a hassle for kitbashing.

That being said, what is your idea?
>>
>>44818405
Might be hard. PP models don't come in bajillion bits that hammer models do usually
>>
>>44818486
I want my Overlord to have a bit more personality, then I saw Asphyxius and his cool floaty robe and soul pit.

My idea was to have the Overlord summon his Rez orb from the pit below him. On mobile so I can't provide a pic at the moment.
>>
>>44818610
The PP online store has the bits for asphyxious. In you only need the skirt and souls, that might be better
>>
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Still a ways to go, but getting there. Haven't painted anything Cygnar before, but its been fun.
>>
Just finished butcher boys. Dogs up next
>>
>>44820559
Lemme flips dat doe
>>
>>44820596
Nice. you might want to touch up his face a little.
>>
>>44817999
The idea is that Warders shouldn't both be impossible to kill and crazy high damage dealers. Since Trolls already jack unit damage to eleven Warders don't need Weapon Master
>>
>>44821303
You are so wrong that it hurts. Trolls are piss poor at unit damage buffing outside of e madrak. Warders without weaponmasters are just worthless. Not enough attacks to fight infantry, not hard enough to crack jacks. If battledriven got changed to what cinerators have it's fine, but loss of weaponmaster is unacceptable.
>>
>>44821904
They're p+s 13 with access to cheap animi buffs and Charge of the Trolls.

Do you actually play the faction?
>>
>>44822336
they are fucking ps 10.

I actually fucking play the faction, I don't make up bullshit
>>
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>>44823183
Ok, so you are a faction fan boy

Also, Battle Driven + Krielstone = p+s 13. If they aren't you're doing something wrong.

And again, I'm just passing on what I've been told from my source who is usually right about this stuff. Take it with a grain a salt.

If I'm right though, and they do get nerfed, I'm going to give you so much shit.
>>
>>44823412
So they can get up to 13 not actually 13.

I swear if you are that banethralls are mat 8 faggot I hope someone rubs a cheese grater on your face and balls
>>
How do I as a legion pThags player beat Khador players such as Butcher3 at 35 points?
>>
>>44824225
Play at 50pts.

Butcher kills 35pts in a single turn easily. The key is to kill with the 15pts that you have remaining.
>>
>>44824099
Don't be mad just because I'm pass info to you.

And Warders can actually get up to p+s 18 rolling five dice for damage you scrub. 13 is just where they start out
>>
>>44824499
10 is where they start out.

Get your motherfucking facts straight
>>
>>44824550
If your Warders aren't starting out at 13 you're doing it wrong. You play trolls, play them correctly.

I also said they get UP to 18. Of course they don't start out there. Do you into reading comprehension?
>>
>>44824683
You can't start out at 13 because the opponent has to trigger it.

I've never said that they started at pow 18.

Go fuck yourself.
>>
>>44825478
If your opponent hasn't triggered battle driven then surely you must be winning
>>
>>44825646
Damn fucking straight, going with pow 10 weaponmasters
>>
Been watching battle reports and looking at lists for Cephalyx and wow they seem pretty powerful

im thinking about starting them any tips you guys have for them?
>>
>>44826848
magnetize the heavies.
>>
>>44826882
Indeed, i was planning on that out of the three which is the MUST BRING?
>>
>>44826882

I feel like you really only need 2-3 Wreckers and a Warden. I don't see any use at all for a Subduer. If anything just magnetize one to be a Wrecker/Warden and then have two perma-Wreckers.
>>
>>44826952
Thanks for the input based anon.
>>
>>44800725
>still no inflictor
>>
>>44826931
Most list I see are two Wreckers for heavy lifting and a Warden to take shots for your caster.
>>
>>44827230
>Implying anyone cares about Cryx problems
>>
>>44827287
>still no Indictor
>>
>>44826931
Double wrecker is pretty standard. the 3rd or the 4th heavy is up to you.
>>
>>44826952
Subduer is great. I would actually argue it's better than the warden. Warden's bit redundant since sac pawn to monsterosities are pretty common.

Subduer is amazing for trading heavies or assassinating
>>
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Working on my slightly converted Reznik 1. I didn't like his tiny head so I used the extra Gravus one from my other conversion, and sculpted a face grill onto it. I also bulked up his legs a bit and filled out his waistline where it was kinda hollow. It's not done yet, I have to wait for the wash to dry.
>>
Wish the second gen Collossals could have come out before the gargs
>>
>>44829107
With the potential for them to be cast in the new plastics, if they are I'd be surprised to see any within two years.
>>
>>44827426
See >>44827287
>>
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>>44829261
>>
>>44812888
stahp, just, no. Don't do it.
Post "soon" "next week" "salty tears" etc etc.
If you can't give anything slightly better than vague on vague street in vaguetown, then don't bother.

If you didn't post the possible implications of an errata that might be coming sooner rather than later; then we might have actually been suprised by the news when the errata does drop.
>>
>>44817347
gr8 feedback/10 m8

sep-licker isn't a word?
>>
>>44817999
bullshit.
Many things are already hit too hard. Everyone and their dog seems to get a damage buff these days.

Look, warmachine prime, take a Repenter; that's a giant robot which wields a solid steel flail which probably weighs a fucking ton. It is POW 13. That is VERY stong.

Now a crusaders inferno mace POW 18; it is the force of being hit by a train at full speed.

now we still consider POW18 to be decent, but anything up to POW16 is considered "pillow fisted"
The problem isn't warders, it's all the damage buffs on all the things.
It is not wonder that the meta went through high defense and now into multiwound high armor.

Because the charge bonus die was supposed to make any model decent when charging, but now in this weapon master meta; every one has that bonus die all the time.
>>
>>44821904
Do you even know what cinerators are? Because they sure don't have battle driven.
If they had battle driven you might even see them on the table.

Warders have high arm which gets higher
reach and weapon master, on usually pow 13.
Do you realise how powerful pow13 weapon master is supposed to be?

>you are a salty fanboy.
The portents were right ! We were warned! Brace yourselves for the incoming salty tears, this isn't just a river of tears, not even a sea of tears. No this is going to be a fucking tsunami.
>>
>>44823412
i cordially agree with this person.
I hope it is true, and I shall also rub it into every troll player's face.

Bane thralls could also lose weapon master though; They are a 12dude unit (so not elites, elites are 6 dude units) stealth, dark shroud, tough, auto get up, fearless, not living, can be repopped by tartarus, goreshades.

Errants could also lose weapon master; Also a 12 dude unit. Fearless, pathfinder, can't be targeted by spells, quick work, ARM16 (full plate+shield) blessed xbows and self sac. They sure as hell don't need weapon master on top. Knights exemplar have weapon master for good reason.

I play Cryx AND Menoth and I would WELCOME such changes.
>>
>>44825478
I know someone is triggered...
>>
>>44827426
implying Menoth players actually care about a non reach SPD4 heavy with no gun, no speed buffs that costs as much as a Reckoner...
>>
What's the point of resculpting the really top heavy huge jacks and leaving them in metal where they're still going to be massively huge, top heavy and likely to fall apart even with serious pinning?
>>
>>44827911

Rez makes me laugh cause I keep humming this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svC_Iw_rI4k
>>
>>44834967
I'd play it. I may play two. Shutting down spells is gold in my meta. I also want a guardian that's not the terrible metal version.
>>
>>44835075
What are you talking about? All the new resculpts are going to be in a resin/metal mix, with the large parts being resin
>>
>>44835567
It's only 5". The Indictor is SPD4., so that's up to 9" away from your current position, if:
The opponent doesn't block your WJ
The opponent doesn't move out of the indiction area before casting/chanelling spells.

Also: two of them ? You would pay for 2 heavy WJ kits just to try something which probably won't work?

The book is legit because it is SPD5 with a 10" bubble. 11" is maddy is standing b2b.
That's way more effective than an indictor.
>>
>>44836074
It's passive bubble allows you to run or charge. That's 13" or 12", or in Durst's lists where I was thinking about taking them, 14" and jam with the feat. They have their uses. Plus you can engage the spellcasters with the jack, or Reckoners, or flameguard so they can't walk away to cast.
>>
>>44837055
And the book is usually in my other list with pSevvy.
>>
>>44834943
>Bane Thralls lose Weapon Master.
It's funny, I had this exact same conversation the other day. I don't care too much about Trolls getting nerfed so long as everyone else gets brought down, or up, to a similar level.

The game shouldn't have one faction that wins every event and that everyone has to tech for.

It will never happen but Bane Knights and Thralls should get knocked down to FA:2. Maybe FA:1 for Knoghts
>>
Are there any legitimately good Warmachine channels? Where the banter is fun instead of being all matter of fact. Beasts of War and Miniwargaming, the Cooler lack genuine charisma and that one pretty Khador girl. Do you think there is a need for a fun gaming mini's channel?
>>
>>44837602
Not off the top of my head. Most channels like that tend to be pretty terrible. You can check out Crippled System I suppose?
>>
>>44834869
So your idea of reducing punch power is to take out the damage from the least damaging wraponmaster in the faction. Ok. Ok whatever.

>>44834892
That's why I said "change to" implying that it's not the same.

Jesus Christ, can anyone actually fucking read for a change?
>>
>>44834951
Illiteracy does trigger me considerably.
>>
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>>44838175
Ugh, we'll see if this works
>>
>>44837153
The problem isn't always the Banes themselves. I mean, they're nice infantry, but they need a lot of polishing to get where they are.

Like, a caster that can give them a +5 Swing and fix their MAT6 is sort of the problem.
>>
>>44837602
I like Advanced Manuvers for bat raps, but I swear to god they've become allergic to using good casters.
>>
>>44838272
Really, only denny does that, and I think people usually take ranged units over banes with her. Gaspy doesnt fix their mat, unless gaspy3 but same issue, banes dont always make the cut with him

Tartarus "tax" has to be considered
>>
>>44838835
pSkarre absolutely does it for her entire army.
>>
Selling out of MtG. Currently have some Skorne bits and pieces. Name me some essential units for Skorne and tell me why. Also please provide a couple of good well rounded 35 point lists. I really want to get into this game but always lose because I'm too impatient and send my beasts in. Pls help me /tg/, I want to grind people out.
>>
>>44839059
This list should include most Skorne staples:

Supreme Archdomina Makeda (*5pts)
* Molik Karn (11pts)
* Titan Gladiator (8pts)
Cataphract Incindiarii (Leader and 5 Grunts) (9pts)
Nihilators (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts)
Mortitheurge Willbreaker (2pts)

There's nothing in this list you won't use in most of your lists. It's a good starting point, though I currently lack the time to explain why.
>>
>>44839179
To be honest, this is almost exactly the same list I came up with last time after getting sick of losing. The only difference is I used pMorghoul and brough an Agonizer with my extra 2 points. And out of interest, is your explanation basically just "MOLIK FUCKING KARN"? The main reason I wanted to start getting some use out of him was because of a Menoth player using those Errant cunts who can sacrifice to prevent Nihilators from doing anything at all. But since side step triggers on hit, Karn can chew through regardless.

Out of interest, how would that actually work? Do I resolve side step after he chooses who to side step or the other way round?
>>
>>44839284
>Do I resolve side step after he chooses who to side step or the other way round?

*who to sacrifice
>>
>>44839284
>The only difference is I used pMorghoul and brough an Agonizer with my extra 2 points.
It will play quite differently with Mak2. She supports the infantry way more.

>And out of interest, is your explanation basically just "MOLIK FUCKING KARN"?
Not only that. Molik is more of a constant threat you keep on your enemy while the rest of the list does the hard work.

>The main reason I wanted to start getting some use out of him was because of a Menoth player using those Errant cunts who can sacrifice to prevent Nihilators from doing anything at all. But since side step triggers on hit, Karn can chew through regardless.
Incindiarii also work very well. Being lit on fire is one of the few things Errants are not immune to.

>Out of interest, how would that actually work? Do I resolve side step after he chooses who to side step or the other way round?
The attack gets resolved completely (including the self-sac) and then you side-step.
>>
>>44838877
Oh yeah. I've never played her so it totally slipped my mind
>>
Rephrasing the question I asked earlier, how do you beat Butcher3 at 35 points?
>>
>>44840515
I mean, it all depends.

I feel pretty confident with both Lucant and Synth(if he doesn't have eEyriss) at 35 points, but that's my faction.

Plenty of casters can bend him over.
>>
>>44840515
You anti magic with Orin Midwinter
>>
>>44838272
I think you're onto something.
Cryx starts with an amazing advantage, by default: they are (almost) all undead (fearless and not living models)
So, in warmachine prime, they had a slight drawback to compensate, and you can still see it, cryx gets 1pt less in MAT and RAT compared to an equivalent living unit.
So living elites get MAT 7, whilst cryx elites a mere MAT 6.
It explains why mcthralls are MAT 5 too

But fuck that right PP ?! Let's just remove the slight drawback for cryx, give them all the toys for cheaper (darragh wrath, withershadow combine) and more efficient (bile thralls 6" autohit purge, necrosurgeon heal 1D6 or pops up to 3 mcthralls)

Then we can wonder why cryx hits the podium in almost every single tournament.
>>
>>44839499
you hit, you side step.
then damage, then he decides who actually dies.

But molik has reach, so even with 2" sidestep, you can still hit the initial target again if need be.

You can only side step on initials ofc.

Also, molik karn needs a ficking good nerfing too. Even if it means buffing some shitty things in skorne.
It's such a pity to have an entire faction depend on one OP character warbeast.
>>
>>44840768
>you hit, you side step.
>then damage, then he decides who actually dies.
That is incorrect. Side step triggers on hit but is resolved after the attack.

"When this model hits an enemy model with initial or special attack that is not a power attack, it can advance up to 2" after the attack is resolved[...]"
>>
>>44840515
give him some bait, let him over react, then kill him.

and or use some of the following:
>arm lock prevents models from being pushed
actually any model that contacts another model can't be pushed any further
>some models can't be moved anyway
antimagic, the covenant, orin midwinter, a few spells. Any spell hate helps against butcher 3
>Don't kill one dog, kill them both in the same turn or don't bother.
Anything that fucks around with focus

Butcher3 lost against haley2 on turn2 (was it turn2 or turn1?) in the finals of the WTC
>>
>>44840240
oops.
So cryx is ok (as in not OP) as long as you don't actually know what they can do?

/stay classy
>>
>>44840768
Not exactly. Side Step triggers on the hit, but doesn't resolve until after the attack is completed. Hit, damage, self sac, then side step.
>>
>>44837770
>jimmy rustle
>>
>>44840924
You try dealing with illiterates
>>
>>44837055
>>44837110
The book is so good it's always in a list.
I bet we get as salty as trolls if PP ever nerfs the book.

The problem with the indictor that I conceive, is that it's hard enough engaging spell casters with WJs as it is.
No one is going to let a SPD no reach heavy get anywhere that matters, let alone engage spellcasters.
Oh it might be fun if it ever happens, the look on the druids faces when they can't just push it, or battle mages, or hex hunters...
But it won't happen often enough, and you'll regret not having a reckoner with hymn of shielding instead.

Apparently, Durst's feat on WJs with shields is overkill. As in, it works fine on, say Reckoners who also have a nice def bonus.
I don't like Durst though, he has a fat ass. Yep. Don't care about stats, I don't want a fattie in my army, so I won't use him.
Conversely, although I'm telling you how bad the indictor is, I'm going to get one, and use it, because it looks really cool.
>>
40K player here. Thinking about trying to start up Warmachine. Good or bad idea?
How's the community? Growing, dying? Seems much cheaper to play. How's the faction balance?
>>
>>44841280
>Good or bad idea?
Good in general. I find it a lot more fun.
>How's the community? Growing, dying?
Depends on where you live.
>Seems much cheaper to play.
Not really. I'd say a bit.
>How's the faction balance?
Not perfect but really good. Player skill is 1000x more important than faction choice, but imbalances exist.
>>
>>44841343
player skill is about 6/10ths of the game
listbuilding 3/10ths
faction and list choice 1/10th
>>
>>44841373
I would also like to submit that starting with minions or Convergance is not recomended due to limited choices
>>
>>44840696
Cryx has disadvantages man. They have almost zero ability to dig past a front line. They're hugely dependent on their war noun to get anything done. They often have terrible defensive stats. They can pretty much only do one thing, which is dude spam.

Cryx have a shit ton of tools, yes, which is why top players play them. But you need to understand the lists to win. If you look at a lot of events, you see plenty of cryx in the bottom as well when less skilled players get their shit shoved in.

Is there some stuff to fix with them? Sure, but it's not like every tool they have is broken and unbeatable.
>>
>>44770064
So, you need to make caster choice first. Caster choice has a huge, huge effect on how lists work in coc, more than most factions. Even the exact same war jacks do very different things with different casters.
>>
>>44839284

>hit
>resolve damage
>resolve tough
>Menoth guy chooses who to self-sac
>Molik gets to do his Side Step move
>>
>>44841280
Generally faction balance is good. There are issues, but they're on higher levels of play. The issue I think most new players have is that the game has a huge number of gotcha style tactics, things that you can defend against, but if you don't know about will kill you. Stuff like pKreoss pop and drop, or snipe feat go, things like that. So just be aware that if someone randomly kills you, there was likely a way to prevent it, you just didn't know how to do it.
>>
>>44841373
I would go so far as to say list building is 50% now, knocking some off luck and skill. Luck had gotten so manipulable that people rage more than ever when they can't get the right roll.

The things you can bring can mitigate luck so much, that it doesn't matter how much how well you can pilot a niche unit. The game has gotten huge.

The nickname for the game is Magic: The Miniatures for a reason. You make a crazy list that dials things to eleven, borderline breaking all the rules and then pilot that list to victory.

Sure you can fuck up the piloting,but if you have the basics down and a solid list you can go really, really far.


There's some salt and grumbling as a result of it.
>>
>>44841777
>There's some salt
Like in that very post.
>>
>>44841846
Should be minimal salt. I don't mind list chicken as much as other folks do. I just wish the game were quicker and took less time to rerack.

I love list building. I enjoy seeing if ideas work out on the table and I got into the game because of how combo centric the game was.

My biggest issue is that fiddy pts takes an ungodly amount of time to resolve for what is a largely known outcome.

There is also the huge stigma against scooping that I frankly do not understand why it never carried over from Magic... I'd love to play again and rerack to see if I can guage things better the second time around, but the opponent always gives me a "No no no you can win still!!" When I know the odds are super stacked against me. But that's whatever.

I hate dice. I absolutely hate dice and unknown ingame outcomes. I only tolerate it because this is one of the minis games where I feel I have the freedom to take a list concept and play it out in the table to see how it churns. I figure dice are always there to prevent "optimal" list construction where everything is known and builds become more and more homogenized.

Actually now that I think about it... There is salt. It's just against dice and the clock.
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