>>44760582 He's the main antagonist of Final Fantasy 7. Basically a super soldier who was hopped up on magic space alien blood because his mother was experimented whist pregnant and he's ansgty about it for reasons.
I haven't even played Final Fantasy 7, and I know who he is. That's why people thing(and your post most likely is) bait. >>44760561 >setting where demons kill depressed/angsty people I'm just imagining everyone running around with REALLY fake fucking smiles, pretending everything is going to be okay, because if they don't shit's gonna get a whole lot worse.
>>44760720 >I'm just imagining everyone running around with REALLY fake fucking smiles, pretending everything is going to be okay, because if they don't shit's gonna get a whole lot worse. Why imagine real life?
Oh that's why i haven't heard of him. I've never played a FF game in my life, and none of my friends were into it either. We mostly ground away our days playing Worms, Jagged Alliance II, NWN and the C&C/Red Alert series
>>44760720 He actually has a fairly decent reason in his own mind. He (wrongly) believes that the magic space alien he was spliced with is actually one of the Ancients, which were the original ethnic group on the planet that got pushed out by the race that most everyone else is part of, and that gives him a genocidal revenge boner. In reality, the alien thing, being one of those "consume the planet and move on" sort of beings, is what did them all in. But by the time that comes to light, he's got such a bad case of magic radiation poisoning and alien headfuckery that he can't even comprehend anything other than his original genocidal belief. Cloud is suffering from similar radiation poisoning headfuckery and only barely managed to pull out of it because he hadn't been exposed to that shit for as long.
>>44760960 No he didn't. His brain got scrambled and he couldn't separate his sense of self from memories of an old friend and his crushed dream of being a super soldier. His recollection of previous events doesn't match anyone else's because he literally doesn't remember it right, not because he's from an alternate reality.
>>44760914 It is actually a little more complicated than that. Sephiroth only believed the "Jenova is an Ancient" thing for a few hours. After getting lobbed into the planet's core, he learns the truth while adrift in the Lifestream, and forges a new plot to basically just fuck up the planet and become a new god who remakes the world, as he generally thinks this world is not good enough. He's definitely not going along with the initial plan of "kill all humans", but the far reaching plan of "wound earth -> absorb the lifestream that gathers to heal earth -> do whatever I want with infinite power".
>>44761154 That is completely wrong. Jenova doesn't have "a plan". Jenova is a virus, more like an epidemic than a person. Its only impulses are "infect with more Jenova" and "Reunite into a superior Jenova amalgam". Sephiroth is the one in control every moment after falling into the reactor.
>>44761259 Lavos at least has some implication of intelligence. It manipulates the humans of Zeal to its own ends. Jenova has primordial cunning at best, with no higher goals whatsoever. However, Jenova is more dangerous on the personal level with its tendency to run personalities through the blender in its attempt to proceed with the infection. Lavos is more dangerous on the planetary level, what with the whole "fire spines that devastate the surface" ability. Lavos spends 99.99% of its time under the planet, doing nothing at all, until it's apocalypse time.
>>44761242 It does have a plan. And that plan is to consume everything it can. Sephiroth taking all of the life force is literally doing exactly what Jenova tried to do waaaaay back when the Ancients were in control. Sephiroth is the vector for "Infect with more Jenova". Like an ant infected with cordyceps, except the idea is to collect all the everything in one place instead of slowly branching out.
Well my Current Scion of Osiris fights like an Undead Female Saitama and we have a Scion of Hephastus who's a living Genos basically and we have chopped Titanspawn in half and killed the titan Trigon with 7 normal punches (Army of One, War 7) sooo.
>>44761320 That's not really the case. Jenova doesn't have the scope of understanding to consider infecting the lifestream to be an important goal. It only infects individuals, sees a non-Jenova lifeform and aspires to make it a Jenova lifeform. Read the Ultimania guides.
>>44761295 So assume they infected the same planet. Lavos had time to install itself and begin directing evolution towards it's ends before Jenova landed and begun infecting individuals into Jenova lifeforms.
Would Lavos be able to fight off a Jenova infection? Would Jenova be able to twist shit enough to completely destroy Lavos' manipulations?
>>44761365 It doesn't need to have that scope of understanding. Fostering his connection with it changed Sephiroth's goal from "Kill everything" to "Take control of everything". He's serving its goals in a very efficient way. All it needs to do is make your goals line up with its goals. And its goals are to make everything part of it. It doesn't care exactly how you do that or what state "everything" is in at the end of the day.
>>44760355 The stupid son of a bitch is about to get his ass blown open by the many, many, many hideously powerful cultist servants of the BBEG, who are all devoted in literal soul and broken mind to her and her beyond-Jenova levels of mythos fuckshit.
Then one of them is gonna steal his sword to do wacky stunts at the PCs when they roll around.
>>44761430 You're working off fanon, guy. The canon is that Sephiroth dominates Jenova with his great will, he is not subject to infect or Reunion (he only spreads a wave of Jenova infection as his last spiteful act, to spread Geostigma far and wide). The plan to become the new God was his own idea.
>>44761518 A new god conveniently infected with Jenova and subsuming everything in a way that makes everything part of him also part of Jenova. Sure, collecting everything that could possibly be infected into one infected host body doesn't serve the goals of a thing that wants to infect everything. Sure.
>>44762088 Granted, as stupid as Sephiroth is, even at his weakest before Jenova, he was a Lv.50 ultra soldier who murdered dragons solo. I imagine he is a decent threat, but outside of his universe there's just much worse shit rolling around.
>>44762148 The exact power level of Sephiroth has varied over the course of the franchise (sub franchise? Dunno what to call a serie-within-a-serie). From what we can gather his pre-jenova self is basically super strong, fast, durable and can do some crazy animu sword fighting shit.
There are plenty of things within tabletop universe which can defeat him, so having him 'replace the current BBEG' leaves quite a lot of variable. In a high level D&D campaign (especially 3e and variants) he'd be a powerful one on one threat but by that point casters can do enough bullshit to completely disable and/or vaporize him. Or just throw him into another dimension.
In Exalted he'd be a total joke, granted I suppose he could be comparable to a low-essence but highly skilled Dragonblooded at *best*, assuming the full extent of his power before merging with JENOVA is something we've never even seen so far.
>>44762294 I ignore anything that isn't the original FF7, and I'll continue to ignore everything until the remake comes out and we find out how badly they manage to smash together decades worth of brain-frying slop.
But going by just that, as I said yeah, he was actually very capable and powerful: never used it before but if I HAD to slap a D&D title on him, I'd reason, what, between Level 15 and 20? Some sort of powerful Spellblade type?
>>44762398 Well, strip him of his materia, that right there would level shit pretty fast. This is why I liked FF6 more, everyone had the magic thing but they ALSO had their own individual gimmick power to get around with.
>>44762398 >He is a caster though To be fair, no one was really a full caster in FF7. The way materia worked, if ported to 3.PF, would be closer to most people having high levels of UMD or some feature that let them cast spells from items without having the spells on their lists.
>>44762475 If it was ported to 3.5, nobody would have direct magic at all and could only cast by pushing power through a physical embodiment of magic that has been refined in such a way as to cast a spell (And only one spell) when power is put through it.
>>44762386 Overall there's no denying that Sephiroth would definately be a dangerous threat in combat as he simply has to be, at the very least, a highly skilled mage-knight type with high physical stats.
However I doubt it is those traits alone that make him a world-ending threat. It's him becoming much more than that via JENOVA, so it boil down to; is he merged with JENOVA or not?
>>44762584 Not really. He becomes so powerful from devouring the Lifestream. He keeps the largest Jenova amalgam close at hand (it's a shapeshifting superweapon he can control with his mind, it's pretty useful), but he throws it at the party when they get too close, so it's not himself.
>>44762584 It kind of rounds our argument back to square one. The dude honestly isn't very interesting or some unique threat if he just ports in to take over your setting's bad dude. He's just another badass with a sword and a god complex and tentacles.
>>44762614 >How does he do with machine guns and rocket launchers? Bullets are nearly harmless. Rocket launchers are not harmless, but only mildly annoying at best. A SOLDIER 1st class who was weaker than Sephiroth managed to very nearly defeat an army of normal humans with guns, backed up by rocket tanks and helicopters, entirely by himself. (Three soldiers were left standing by the time he was laid low) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKGWKRPJv1k&t=1m49s
>>44762646 The weird thing is I found Sephiroth more interesting when he wasn't (fully) evil and just a weird yet extremely talented supersoldier. His descent into madness is classic 'best of the best goes evil' but once he goes evil and insane he cease to have any depth (not that he really had much but still) beyond beign "Mwahahaha I will consume all!"
>>44762775 Same. I mean, he didn't have much of anything going for him to begin with. He was honestly always just a violent product of the system that the heroes were fighting, that got way out of control, and served as a push for the characters to fight with their inner demons. He was already defeated when Cloud had his berserker moment and freaking sword-tossed him to his first death.
>>44762908 The thing is, as much as this is gonna sound 'Sephiroth dindu nuffin wrong': in a few ways he's very much a monster of circumstances. A product of mad science denied much of his basic humanity. He's very much a man made monster.
Unfortunately that detail is rather lost when he turn into the usual world-destroying godlike menace you expect out of a JRPG villain. I'm really not a fan of Sephiroth but I can't help but think he has some wasted potential.
>>44763200 >Honestly, he could've really use a game a decade ago to flesh out his character and motivations. FTFY. I really don't trust squenix to handle him with any sort of sense now. After fucking neutering Cloud into a whiney baby so angsty and broody it feels like he was lifted from the pages of a VincentxSquall slashfic, they would likely do the same to Sephiroth.
>>44763274 Crisis Core wasn't a sequel though, it was a prequel. Also I liked Crisis Core. It made me feel more for Zack dying because goddamn I loved him as a character. Like to the point where I don't care if FF7 Remake has a "Save Aerith" DLC, but I will pay good money for a "Playable Zack" DLC.
>>44763303 True enough. Speaking of, anyone else giggle at Cloud's fucking crackfiend arms in the Remake trailer?
>>44763200 >>44763274 Sephirot is basically like Darth Vader when you think about it; the less you know about him the better, as any attempt to humanize him and make him more tragic open the risk of writer flub ending up making him less cool than he was before.
>>44764119 I know you probably mean Bitch-Ass as a general descriptive term, but I can't help but imagine Pimp ass Drac making his pad a giant stone phat ass, like what his best bitch got – you know the one that got the big booty that shakes like its got shocks, mang. Yyyyeah youknowwhatimsayin.
>>44761200 >>44762169 I can hear his god-damned laugh. Fuck. >>44760355 Almost literally nothing. Same class as Matthew Gaul, same amount of EDGE, same barber, same tailor, very slightly different motivations/goals, same dickhole personality, same habit of killing helpful chicks/random people for the lulz.
Better idea. Your current campaign party, NPCs and BBEG are transported into Final Fantasy VII's Gaia with approximate backstories to match. Shinra has won the war with Wutai and uses Mako and Jenova in science experiments, but Sephiroth and Cloud's friends don't and haven't existed. Have fun.
>tfw Gaia is a Maiden World the Imperium captured, but other than fighting off Eldar it's a backwater where things get extra heretical pretty quick >World Spirit is tapped for electricity, Warpteria, creation of heretekal monsters and enhanced soldiers >Sisters of Battle Acts of Faith are really just Limit Breaks >mfw my Assassin has Added Effect + Hades on his chainsword
>>44765761 Speaking of Dissidia, how are you supposed to play it? Next mission after the tutorial suddenly jumps to five stars and wrecks shit. The only low-difficulty missions are way off in the plot. Are you supposed to jump around like a mad rabbit?
>>44765819 Are we talking about Dissidia 1 or Duodecim? It might be better to just skip to Duodecim, which contains the plot of Dissidia 1. But if you're talking about what I think, you can do any of the 10 crystals in whatever order you want. The Warrior of Light is only 5 stars because he's an unwieldy character (honestly rather low tier) and Garland's AI is set pretty high. His campaign is not really much harder than any other. It definitely doesn't have to go in order of Final Fantasy release.
Currently the world is in a state of apocalypse caused by a single wizard killing of the gods. Reality is unmaking and the rules of the world are changing quickly. Problem with his is that he no longer has a body and lives in an alternate dimension as a godlike being.
Sephiroth has to actually go to the places and do his mind fuckery on his own. My players would seek him out and slap his shit in.
Or he would slice them up. Because the surprise rules in this game are intense and Sephiroth does likes his surprise backstabs.
He'd be a lot harder to kill than my current main villain, that's certain. But he's also a socially retarded edgelord with no leadership skills so his cult and his army is going to fall apart in a matter of days, so that takes away most of the threat.
>>44767324 It's really only the first class super soldiers that get the flashy swords. And they're juiced up on enough magic radiation that it doesn't matter what you equip them with. Their regular grunts use regular guns. Their lesser super soldiers also mostly use guns. Mostly. Their melee weapons are more like infantry scale lances than giant swords. Shinra thumbreakers are the Turks. They're closer to an intelligence service. They kidnap people and run assassinations, and as far as I can tell, prefer to do that without fighting at all, whenever possible.
>>44761365 >Failing to understand the plot this hard Seriously, the game itself tells you that JENOVA was an intelligent enough being to actually interact with the Ancients in friendly terms and make them believe she was good for some a time before infecting them and fucking them all a bit.
All throughout the game whenever you think you're chasing Sephiroth you're actually chasing Jenova, which is why everytime you find him you actually fight one of Jenova's pieces or sons or whatever (it's also stated in the game that she has the power to alter her appearance to look like somebody else). During the whole time Sephiroth was on the North Crater, crystallized inside Mako.
>>44767537 >Seriously, the game itself tells you that JENOVA was an intelligent enough being to actually interact with the Ancients in friendly terms and make them believe she was good for some a time before infecting them and fucking them all a bit. That's just the power of mimicry. It is not an intelligent interaction, it is merely a haphazard imitation created directly from the memories of another. At no point did it "make them believe she was good", it just approached them with the face of their loved ones and began the infection that way. It was more like a zombie apocalypse for them. Ifalna even says the infected Cetra lost their minds and became monsters, the only thing they kept was appearance.
>All throughout the game whenever you think you're chasing Sephiroth you're actually chasing Jenova, which is why everytime you find him you actually fight one of Jenova's pieces or sons or whatever (it's also stated in the game that she has the power to alter her appearance to look like somebody else). During the whole time Sephiroth was on the North Crater, crystallized inside Mako. You're facing Jenova controlled directly by Sephiroth as a remote puppet. Sephiroth had completely dominated Jenova and Jenova was just a shapeshifting tool for his plans.
Again; the Ultimania guide is very clear that while Jenova is cunning in its own way, it is nothing but instinctual programmed responses like a virus.
>>44767630 And yes, Jenova can scan people's brains without even touching them. This is part of the reason Cloud is so fucked up; this automatic mimicry occurred to him after running into Tifa just before the start of the game. So three voices are in his head, Cloud, Zack, and "Cloud", the person that Tifa imagined Cloud would be (which is why he tries to act like a hardened badass soldier which neither Cloud nor Zack act like). Jenova's got a brain scanner and it will fire at the very first thing it meets to try and trick them.
>>44767686 The mako poisoning made plenty of room for Jenova's mimicry ability to fire. It doesn't affect normal SOLDIERs, for example. Their will has to degrade before a simple virus will overwhelm their identity, and the mako beat down Cloud's identity long beforehand.
>>44767742 He doesn't, really. He was only going on and on about "Mother" for the brief period after reading about Jenova in Hojo's lab, and going to meet Jenova in the mako reactor. During this period, he was legitimately insane and raving, and working off a lot of Hojo's bad information. He just calls her "mother" once after learning the proper truth. Pretty much everything he talks about in the Temple of the Ancients is about himself.
One can't be sure whether bullets being harmless are a SOLDIER thing or just a quirk of FF7's world in general: guns seem to fire at far lower velocity on average, as one of them failed to puncture Cloud's skull on a direct hit; maybe only the really elite troopers have access to high-velocity skin piercing rounds.
He probably dies. Might not even be for a good reason or with an epic fight. My players tend to genuinely bumble into trouble with the smallest shit while murdering the largest shit with some luck and planning.
The idea that Sephiroth is in charge always smacked to me of lazy retconning because of his popularity. In the game, you have a pretty normal dude to begin with who completely snaps when he finds out the circumstances of his birth, becoming shakey and erratic.
He gets shivved, falls into the lifestream holding Jenova's head and they float up north.
Later on, you get revelations that Jenova travels from world to world, got injured in her landing this time, and has a habit of fucking with people by mimicking devoured relatives. Jenova's only spoken line in the game is "because you are a puppet", and she's seen floating over Bizarro sephiroth's head pulling his strings.
Also every time you confront a Sephiroth clone it explodes into a Jenova form to fight you.
Honestly with any reading of subtext whatsoever and taking the original game in isolation, Sephiroth is dead and gone, being merely a convenient vector for fucking with the heads of both Cloud and Shinra.
>>44768898 Sephiroth-in-control of JENOVA never made sense and is definately a cheap retcon as to avoid people pointing out he's nothing but a vessel for JENOVA who is, you know, a lovecraftian cosmic horror. Was it really Seph in there controlling JENOVA it would make a lot more sense if he truly lashing out at the Shinra corporation. Instead he just resume the goal of JENOVA. Taking into account Advent Children (yeah I know, shit movie made years later but bear with me), it really show he just want to be JENOVA 2.0.
It just make more sense to me to say that Sephiroth THINK he's in control of JENOVA but in reality merely act as a 'face' for the creature to interact with people and fuck with them, especially Cloud.
>>44768898 A lot of that may have to do with the game's development. Based on what I read, Square basically never had a concrete idea on what the story was so major plot elements would change radically.
I think, originally, it was going to be explicit that Jenova escaped the Shinra building and went looking for Sephiroth's corpse. As the heroes chased Jenova, she would chop off pieces of herself which would turn into the boss battles. Eventually, she would just be a severed head which would then fuse with Sphiroth at the end, creating the final boss.
But pretty late in development, they changed it to make Sephiroth's more of the main villain. As far as I can tell, they made this change as late in the game's development as when they were programming cutscenes. They most likely had the game, more or less, made with a Jenova sprite but then switched it out for a Sephiroth's sprite.
>>44760355 My entire plot goes to shit as my BBEG now has no real motivation to go after my players. PCs enjoy years of peace with some sporadic adventures outside of their town until they die of old age or dysentery or something.
>>44760355 >stealth >self buff the hell out of my self >swing 9 attacks with sneak attack >buff attacks with thrashing dragon maneuvers >deal nearly 150d6 because i spent to much time reading all the abilitys in pathfinder profit?
I don't know, I always liked the idea of a sorceress outside of time, a foe that had won in her own time of origin but became embittered by her past and emboldened by her victories. Someone who became so ambitious that she literally warped time and space so that only she existed inside it, but insodoing sealed the fate that she was trying to overcome.
>>44772801 Kefka is more good as a concept than anything else, really.
He's basically the traditional chaotic clown monster, except that instead of getting taken out by the heroes in a big fight before the REAL final boss or getting his just desserts somewhere, he fucking kills his boss and usurps the power of the cosmos in order to bend space and time to his whim.
Then the game REALLY starts.
Ultimecia did it all in backstory; Kefka does it all in the plot of the game. Only real difference.
>>44760720 >his mother was experimented whist pregnant and he's ansgty about it for reasons
To be honest I consider the Final Fantasy series a cavalcade of badly written characters but I have to admit Sephiroth had a fairly solid reason for doing what he did. He also wasn't angsty, he was pissed off for a fairly good reason.
>>44768898 Whatever you consider to be good writing, you're wrong. Jenova gets called a virus in-game, and a virus is all she ever amounts to.
>>44770857 How can you retcon something that's in the core game? Jenova's goal was never to become a god. It can't even think that far. Advent Children's "Sephiroth", if it really is Sephiroth, is himself after going utterly insane. According to the book that takes place between FFVII and AC, Sephiroth could only hold onto his identity in the lifestream by focusing on his hatred for Cloud. As such, he lost nearly everything about himself except for how much he fucking hates Cloud. So a lot of his actual self was wiped away there.
>>44771279 Jenova doesn't have the capacity to pull any strings.
>>44776297 >Lightning on there twice in two distant categories. >Dropping Cloud low because no one plays the game and everyone goes by the emo shitbag Squenix painted him as in AC/KH. >Calling Tidus forgettable
That last one's a low blow nigga; the game was pretty ass but regardless that's a low blow.
>>44760355 I'm running a Final Fantasy-themed campaign at the moment, and the idea of Sephiroth suddenly appearing out of nowhere, stabbing someone (PC or NPC) and taking over as the main BBEG is literally a running joke that's been going around the entire group for ages. I'm not enough of an absolute madman to actually do it, though.
But as long as we're on the subject of FF villains pic related is obviously the best option.
>>44760355 Sephiroth had a really good introduction for a villain. Starting off, you're always trailing behind him and he's seen as much stronger than you. He goes through Shinra's HQ without any problems, doesn't get caught, etc. and does the job you were trying to do for you. Later you have to go through a large side quest, or abuse mechanics/a glitch, to get by something that is able to kill you easily. Then, in a flashback, its shown that CloudZach was only able to gank him because he had a pre-emptive materia and got a good backstab on him and he STILL survived that. Then, on a ship, you don't even fight him, you fight something you think he throws: You fight his saibaman as a boss.
>>44779505 As a boss, yes. Still, Sephiroth gets close to zero characterization and has almost no personality in the game. You rarely see him, and when you do, he has all the personality of a piece of bread. Which is fine and all, it works, but it always makes me wonder why the fuck he's so popular with fans.
He's just such a fucking nothing as a character. And yet there was a time when every goddamn fangirl gushed over him.
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