Ambassador, I am afraid Humanity's request singular claim of the Far Arm (or the Orion Arm as your people call it) is once again denied. The Council can not allow Humanity to just exile 148 species from their homeworlds and hundreds of colonies in the area.
Ambassador Ayy, by giving us uplifting technology, you are directly responsible for helping us relocate our catgirls, and all 148 of those species have allergies of fluffy tail and kawaii ear on file.
You could have at least warned us they would still give birth in litters.
>blah blah might makes right etc
It does though.
>blah blah as if any filthy xenos can stop us
>fighting nearly 150 species
Waste of resources; believe me fellow Human, I deify our species as much as the next guy, but picking fights with every slimy space slug this side of the core is not the way to go.
Don't worry Ambassador! Humanity will get it's rightful territory! You just need to inter species marriage! Then The Space Elves will give you their Council vote!
The Far Arm is massive! Surely we can co-exist! R-right?
Humanity will never be allowed to claim the Far Arm. Once they have it they will only ask for more.
It's simple. We just enter into the planet as an "intelligent pet" race, and then outbreed every race there. With luck we can end with a mixed race of horned girls when we came to uplift our childrem.
We done it to the space elfs AND the catgirls. We can do it again.
No. Every alien left alive is an alien who could potentially strike against humanity one day. Total extermination of all non-humans is the only way to complete ensure the continued existence of our species.
Kill them as well as both their parents.
Don't make us use these things. Just give us the Orion Arm, and nobody gets hurt.
It depends: Are the human genes dominant and will they be passed on instead of the Filthy Xeno genes?
If yes, then it is our sworn duty to create such half breeds and thus, commit Xenocide via breeding.
And after we've exterminated every other sentient life form, we can go back to fucking each other up, right?
It's been one of the primary motivating factors for countless governments and civilisations throughout history. Displayed prominently and recently, for instance, by the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. throughout most of the Cold War.
There are multiple theories regarding first contact protocol. One is killing on sight. I've heard some analogy about central park at midnight or something, I forget the details.
Anyway it's not something we're likely to do because we've got that whole humanism bullshit going, but it's quite possible that our first encounter with alien life will just be a kill-mail sent to blow up anything acting intelligent.
Why wouldn't you? Aliens are incredibly unlikely to even share a basic system of morality with us, or a common conception of what makes places inhabitable or pleasant, or anything really. It would be absurdly hard to judge their intentions and interests. We can't even live alongside other humans who are basically just like us without conflict erupting every few years, so why would we get along better with a race we share far less with than any human culture? War is inevitable, and seeing how there are no advantages to allowing a potentially hostile species to control large regions of space and threaten the security of our species, I see no reason why they shouldn't all die.
Of course, we'll probably just end up getting exterminated by picking a fight with someone far more powerful than us.
Yes. At least the winning side will always be human and with our species spread throughout the galaxy our continued existence is basically guaranteed.
This annoys me so much, the galactic arms aren't proper landmarks for solar systems. The arms spin faster than the stars inside, they're more of a density wave than a matter wave.
Sure, our planet won't slide out of that arm before sol goes giant red. But are you neurosuggesting our glorious civilization would end at a given point?
Our lebensraum includes not only star systems but also nebulas, so that our descendants can have their own stars and planets.
>Literally "Better than you" space elves and "Hot slut" space elves at the same time.
>Have ancient database warning of demon space cuttlefish for the entire history of their race and government, but don't warn anyone
They're not good for the galaxy.
or Mind Breakthe Asari, for the good of all humans!
Peace was never an option ambassador
"Relocate" is just a nicer term
>Implying there will be a winning side
>Implying humanity won't just wipe itself out
Implying we wouldn't just blow each other to holy hell after or even before going to war with the xenos
Wait, that's a pitch I haven't read in any HFY.
Humans do not care that much for planets but securize all big nebulas, fast forward a lot of time the universe is inhabited by new species but humans are still present, having most of the planets securized. Xeno species evolving to space age are welcome to commerce and visit the XBOXHUEG human empire but they can colonize their own system at best, all the good shit's taken by humans. And humans continue to secure nebulas.
>I've heard some analogy about central park at midnight or something, I forget the details.
But if you're going to be paranoid, you have to assume that the people you can see are only a small subset of the people who can see you. Pulling the trigger lights up your position to everyone on the map and immediately marks you as someone who will cause problems later on, which makes first strikes a losing proposition from any perspective.
Nebulas however are rather radioactive. And with extremely young systems there will be no habitable planets. Self sustained colonies would be limited in growth and break down after a couple of generation of economical stand still.
The reason for that is the massive timeframes involved. There's also the fact that planets are shitty places to live and any sufficiently advanced species will permanently live in designed habitats outside of planetary gravity wells.
Who said anything about exile? We will grant them protectorate and, eventually, assimilate them. As for the colonies - we both know that 80% of their economy relies on trade with Humanity anyway. And that's us who guard main trade routes from pirates. If Council does not grant us the extensive rights to Orion Arm, we just make our dealings directly with those colonies. Who do you think they are going listen to?
Wow, why the fuck would we even ask for the entire outer arm? 148 species is nothing to joke about, and that's kind of a ludicrous request for us to make unless we're so powerful we're mostly asking the council as a joke.
The best plan is to make trade agreements with everybody in the area, and specialize into the things we have a comparative advantage in. Don't specialize too much, of course, but do it enough that you achieve something outside of your production possibility frontier. Keep tariff rates as low as possible to encourage productivity, since that winds up helping everybody in the long run.
Making strong military alliances with those species that are close to use in morality and philosophy is probably a good idea as well.
Really, for me to properly think up a plan, I'd need to know quite a bit more about the scenario. Is there some outside threat that may try to seize our existing territory? If that's the case, and we're already in a position to ask that question to the council, we can probably just go to all the planets and say "Yo, we'll offer you protection if we can station troops" or something. Then you just slowly expand your influence outwards, while trying to assimilate the cultures of the races that join your sphere of influence, for better unity.
Note that I don't mean "force everybody to wear blue jeans and listen to rock music" when I say "assimilate." I mean that you throw a bunch of culture in a blender and see what sticks, just like the good ol' USA.
The moment you tip your hand as the guy who is willing to genocide other species, you immediately make yourself the biggest target in the galaxy.
Now every other spacefaring race, who if they are spacefaring at the time we meet them almost certainly means they have been doing it longer than we have and thus have better tech since we are just starting out, has it in their best interests to gang up and kill us regardless of their own shit they have going on, because we just showed that we are willing to drop the nuclear option without a prompt.
And god help us if we do something fucking retarded like think that the colony we found was actually their home world, biting the hand of a much larger civilization.
The ONLY time that 'kill all teh xenos' is in any way a winning strategy is when we already have all of the information to be sure that we are the stronger power and know all of their stronghold locations, because missing even one planet creates an enemy that is going to revenge our asses if they ever get the chance.
Information that it is highly unlikely we could ever gain without some kind of coexisting with them for years and years and some kind of extensive trading of information. Which sort of means that by the time that we are sure we could win the war, the war probably doesn't even need to happen or it would have already begun.
It is my business when you start doing it during a diplomatic meeting on the table we had gathered and not even having the common courtesy of using pre-produced dung, but instead using your own fresh dung.
Ambassador Ayy, no one would be displaced. in fact, they can all keep their planets and relevant territories with a generous 300 lightyear beyond their current borders for expansion.
think of us like intergalactic Landlords. we buy everything that is unclaimed, which is mostly empty space, and in return you get access to the Syracuse Archivess
I'm just saying we shouldn't have to reengineer waifu races from the ground up if it's already been done for us.
No. They're a bunch of holier than thou assholes who cave at the first sign of a real fight. They attempt to subjugate and culturally dominate every species they come in contact with, and the ones who won't be dominated are destroyed by the Turian pets the Asari keep around.
The Turians just bomb the shit out of everything and think they're superior for it.
The Salarians practice science with no ethical boundries and then act surprised when that blows up in their collective faces over and over. And then, you guessed it, they act superior for it.
The Volus are space jews, nothing more needed to say.
The Elcor are conservative to the point of detriment and are biologically inferior for galactic habitation, needing a highly specialized environment to live.
None of the council races are any good. Hell, none of the other species are any good.
>Hell, none of the other species are any good.
The Geth are good, though.
All they want to do is fix the homeworld, mine some rocks and live in a Dyson Sphere for the rest of existence.
Exile? Oh no, Ambassador Ayyy.
Why should we kick out our potential allies when we could... subjuga- I mean, forge an alliance with them?
I mean, we could certainly use a lot of slav- I mean, manpower for this project of ours.
>Hell, none of the other species are any good.
There's the Drell, as long as you don't hold nearly fucking themselves into extinction against them.
That assumes that intelligence is perfect, and that anyone has the means to actually detect each other over long distances.
Given that we've been trying mighty hard for the last few decades, and we've basically been unsuccessful until very recently (no guarantees there though) may suggest that simply because of the distances involved and the low intensity of signal, it's hard to break your cover.
I'm not a proponent of the idea, but I understand the line of thinking. It's better to fire one gunshot than to let someone start shouting your location out through a microphone.
Fair enough, we'll let the Geth live. I worry though, the only reason they seem to want to do those things is to reconcile with the space gypsies. I'm not sure what would happen after the Quarians are taken out.
The Drell are just puppets for the Hanar, who themselves are basically useless. Not to mention that the Drell are practically extinct as is.
The Batarians also have a super imperialistic attitude, they practice slavery as a sort of manifest destiny. They believe themselves so superior to all other species that they should have to follow no other law but their own, and that all other species should serve them. They are unfit to exist.
To understand why the geth mostly just stay home and Garden, you have to remember what the Geth actually ARE.
They are not conventional AI. they are a bunch of really dumb programs that were originally built to run factors and lawnmowers and toasters and shit, who linked up as part of an unforeseen side effect of "be the best at your job that you can be" programming to expand their operating power. The Geth are a collective that votes on shit and compares notes and communicates, and like the cells of a human brain these individually simple programs form a composite emergent intelligence that can run a planet and invent new technologies and shit.
So yes, they build fleets to defend themselves. They make long terms plans to satisfy their energy needs until the stars themselves go out. They invent new technologies to secure their future and maintain the technological edge needed to ensure that they can do whatever they want until the end of time.
But what do all of those programs still actually vote for?
"What I was made to do, but better."
All they really care about is making sure those factories are clean and tidy, that the lawns or mowed, and that should the need arise they can made fantastic toast. All of those for masters that they have had to separate themselves from, because the masters would have destroyed them and then they wouldn't be able to make toast at all!
Left to their own devices and not being prodded into an aggressive footing, they are almost adorable. Godlike power, used to keep those tulips looking fucking amazing.
>They believe themselves so superior to all other species that they should have to follow no other law but their own, and that all other species should serve them.
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot.
That represents humanity as conceived in this thread.
I think humanity is the bad guy in the scenario OP presents.
In some contexts we probably aren't, but just wholesale demanding a shitload of territory isn't something nice people generally do.
Truth be told, if we can convince the Geth that we can adopt them as surrogate parents, it might be for the best of both of us.
On some level, the individual Geth programs are still built around logic that presumes an organic race to serve. Without one, they have to be feeling somewhat without purpose, even if they cannot admit it because that would be divulging a vulnerability which is a tactical mistake.
Letting them be our butlers and whatever would make them happy, so long as we don't treat them like slaves. It would be hard to find a balance, and they might decide that they don't like us enough to move in with us, but it has the potential for symbiosis.
which is also why the council gave the humans rights to the skylian verge, when the batarians had been in that part of space for hundreds of years, knowing it would piss them off and make them go after the human colonies that they put there. which would in turn cause humans to fight back against batarian state sanctioned pirates, thus keeping the two most problematic species in the galaxy at each others throats for the foreseeable future.
they don't really want to serve, they just want to be left alone to do their own thing.
You have to remember that Ambassador Ayyy is an enabler of humanity's basest sins.
The last time, he and his fellow lmaos gave us genetic engineering technology.
Granted, they "hoped" we'd use it to eradicate common diseases and hereditary imperfections in our genes.
Instead, we used the tech to make cat girls and slime girls, and centaurs... well you get the idea.
So where the hell are we going to keep these menagerie of waifus but in another planet?
You don't wanna. WORST. GIRL. EVER.
They left ooze all over the house, they have the intelligence of an amoeba, and they're body physiology is acidic in order to digest food. i.e. fucking one does terrible things to your dick.
The most dangerous aspect of humanity is the fact that humans are fundamentally incapable of satisfaction. There is nothing you can give humans, either individually or as a group, that will sate them for the rest of their lives. Give a human more food than they can eat in a life time, and they will ask for better food. Give a single human more money that it takes to support a family of four, and you can tempt them with even more money than that despite all of their needs being met.
Because you can meet a humans needs, but you can never meet their wants or sate their greed. More land, more food, more money, more entertainment. And when there is no room for more, they want better. Better food. Better entertainment.
And witholding this from them makes you a villain in their eyes, because their greed with blind them. They will invent reasons why they deserve what they want, why you are evil for not giving it to them even at great cost to yourself.
You have to keep a very strong hand when it comes to humans, and monitor their media and communications very closely. Any population of humans that begins to covet your space and resources too much must be swiftly reprimanded before they can muster the means to challenge you for it. because they will. And when your defenses leave their ships in ruins, they will claim that the blood of their dead is the price they paid for something you never offered to sell, and future generations of them will consider that a debt they will collect on.
I like humans. They can achieve great things precisely because of the very ambition that is their greatest flaw, and they invented the "Knock Knock Joke", which is one of my favorite hobbies. But like a weed with pretty flowers, unless you take measures to prune them they will choke the life out of everything they can reach until there is nothing else left. I prefer to admire them from a distance, because they are very dangerous neighbors.
I found the Catgirl-Gynoid war to be very interesting. The colony didn't have enough men to go around and they started fighting in the streets to claim mates and territory.
fund development into engineering to create flying cities that can relocate as needed
I know that, I'd missed the bit about the slime girls.
I suppose some crazy research organisation is still trying to get them working right?
I would contest this idea. But I'm not good at words nor making a compelling argument.
Anyways, I believe humans are capable of feeling satiated. Be it food, money, or anything.
The reason we aren't is because we understand that all those things are finite. They'll run out eventually, hence why we go into a hoarding mode to get more for ourselves.
But if such things were available and infinite, we would take them for granted. Just like the air we breath.
In fact, if we knew we wouldn't have to worry about getting hungry or going broke, we can spend our energies outward to do some amazing things instead - advancing world-changing science and technologies to new limits.
An example, I guess is during the renaissance period when people worried less about crop yields or hunger and started developing sciences at an astoundingly rapid pace.
It is incredibly small minded to think that there is only one successful operating system in the universe, especially given how much of how we think is based on our biology and evolution, which will absolutely be very different for anything that comes out of an alien ecosystem.
A species that reproduces asexually, for example, would not have nearly the same level of competition instinct that we do because there is no mate to compete for. All they need to do to thrive is live long enough to bud off new offspring, and the longer they live the more offspring they create. So they focus on self preservation and sustainability, until eventually they hit on the idea of enlightened self interest: by working together (eventually as a civilization) they can maximize their lifespans (and thus children) beyond what any of them could hope to accomplish individually. At first in something as simple as protecting themselves from predators, then by sharing knowledge, and the rest is history.
Relating to your comment about air, in a situation where air is not infinite we would begin hoarding it and demanding higher quality air and straight up killing one another over it.
I agree completely. If the resource is infinite (or near so) our want and greed for it will diminish to nothing.
Just to nitpick.
Asexual Organisms are proven to be genetically inferior because they take much longer to adapt and evolve, since they can't easily weed out undesirable traits or grow new ones.
How does this explain man's thirst for conquest at colonizing vast galaxies, when we've already proven that space is constantly expanding at a pace we can't even begin to fathom?
Because we don't know how many planets are inhabitable. In our feeble minds, we believe there's only a finite number of planets in the vast galaxies that are hospitable for human life because we don't have enough data to conclude if its 10 or 10,000,000.
Minor nitpick, I think it is less that it is infinite and more about whether or not it has value.
Air has no value currently because its is freely available to everyone and always has been. As you say, if it was in limited supply (like fresh water) it would suddenly be incredibly valuable and worth killing over.
But there are things that are infinite and still valuable. Space is infinite, but control over territory in space is always going to be worth fighting over.
And something can be limited but worthless, and thus we don't give a shit.
Value can be measured in currency, but that's really just because that is the catchall abstraction we use to standardize value so we don't go insane trying to barter for shit.
>Implying there's anything wrong with this
Every time the order of magnitude our population grows, every time the order of magnitude of planets we control grows, every time the order of magnitude of galaxies we control grows, humanity levels up.
Anything less than being level infinity is unacceptable
Depends. Asexual is generally inferior because it has less randomization and thus doesn't change very quickly. So sponges are going to stay sponges while rats turn into apes turn into humans turn into space elves. And in all that time, sponges still just stay sponges, though maybe slightly different sponges.
Multiple sexes/parents could increased genetic randomization, but whether or not that extra degree of randomization or input is actually useful is up for grabs. The difference between 2 and 1 is much less than the difference between 1 and 0, in terms of significance.
Ah yeah. I considered this argument as well.
But value generally decreases when the supply is greater than the demand, does it not?
Gold is worthless if they're as "infinite" as the grains of sand on every beach.
>Space is infinite, but control over territory in space is always going to be worth fighting over.
I disagree on this point. The resources in a territory can be valuable but the space itself is not. There's enough space in the solar system to house nearly infinite amounts of people as long as you don't restrict yourself to planets. The space between planets is so vast that we could dismantle millions of planets for resources and not need to worry about space running out in our solar system.
So you admit that >>44760481 is essentially right, then? That any alien race that wants to survive is basically obligated to prune us back down to a manageable size every so often because it is inevitable that people like you will come up with an excuse to try and kill or conquer them?
Traditionally, yes. But then you get weird shit, like diamonds being actually really fucking common but the diamond market obscuring that fact by buying them all up and sitting on them in vaults so that only 1% of the diamonds we actually have are available.
We can make flawless diamonds with what amounts to a home chemistry set these days, but the jewelry market still doesn't care about any stone that an African child didn't claw out of the ground and then get shot for.
So scarcity is an important factor, but not the only factor that impacts value.
Depends on whether or not the aliens are willing to be assimilated into the Glorious Federation of Terra, and thus being counted in our population count.
We may be greedy, but I'd like to think that we're inclusively greedy, and want to share the wonders of existence with everyone we meet.
After all, the only thing better than indulging in luxurious wine and the finest meats for your entire life, is indulging in luxurious wine and the finest meats for your entire life with friends.
Anon, 10,000,000 hospitable planets is such a small number if you considered how exponentially fast humanity would grow if they could inhabit more than one planet at a time.
We're not counting trillions of growth a year. But trillions of growth in an hour.
>Conceding to filthy Xenos
>Hindering Humankind's progress
Do I sense DISLOYALTY in this thread?
Now this is just silly, any alien culture that has advanced enough to be space faring will be more than intelligent enough to understand us, and we would likely find it easy enough to understand them since they're bound to have a highly advanced culture.
>not joining the interplanetary community peacefully and with open minds to enrich all of mankind with the bounty the stars and our alien neighbors have to offer
Xenophobic Luddite detected
>not assimilating the galactic community into the Imperium of Mankind, granting each species the honor of joining Mankind along side the glorious Terrans.
But, on the positive side, sometimes we get -excellent- deals.
Oh great, we just got the Arbitr-8r on our asses.
No disloyalty here, commissar!
trust but verify.
hold one hand in open friendship, the other clutching a spear of war
Tali is the only girl in 2 that is worth taking. Mirandi is untrustworthy as fuck because until the end of the game you can't be sure that she is on your side at all, and Jack is a nutcase that could turn on you at any moment if anything upsets her.
Tali is the only one thats really a viable option, unless you plan to sit in your quarters staring at picture of your ME1 waifu of choice, consumed with lust for the evening.
All the planets there would be uninhabitable for us. Too much radiation and heat, too much interference between systems and orbitals, too unstable in general. You'd probably be able to set up viable self-sustaining habitats and industrial constructs in this "region", but no one cares about those -- for some reason, it's all about the terribly inefficient practice of inhabiting planets with you people.
Listen, Ayy, can I call you Ayy? Ayy, we only asked out of... Consideration. I think it's in the council's best interest not to step on our toes.
FROM THE ATLANTIC TO THE PACIFIC
FROM ALASKA TO PANAMA
THE UNITED STATES OF NORTH AMERICA
FROM THE ATLANTIC TO THE PACIFIC
FROM ALASKA TO PUERTE NAVRINO
THE UNITED STATES OF THE AMERICAS
FROM THE ATLANTIC TO THE PACIFIC
FROM THE PACIFIC TO THE ATLANTIC
THE UNITED STATES OF TERRA
Look at all the trouble we have getting along with other members of our own species, or hell look at civil wars we can't even get along with other people from the same country as us alot of the time. How do you think we're going to get along with god damn aliens?
>all the aliens will be nice and peaceful and not want to conquer us if we kiss their ass enough
Space hippy detected
What the fuck are you talking about, why do I keep on seeing people misuse the word so much? It's got a pretty specific meaning.
There must have been a mistake, Ambassador. Those planets are uninhabitated because they are ravaged by deadly bioweap.. xenoplagues. I'm sure there's no harm in us trying to turn these death worlds into something useful?
>most bugs won't try to get away from you if you tear their members apart.
They will though. Maybe not after you're done but they'll try to escape. You have to realize being captured but not killed is pretty much inconceivable to them
The fact they don't experience loss of limbs and pain in the same way doesn't mean they're suddenly not sentient. Their sentience is maybe more limited but I'd argue a notion of higher consequences are certainly sapience over sentience.
Israel - Babylonian Talmud says kill babies of there is a chance they could grow up to be enemies of Jews / nonJews are animals to be used and thrown aside/ raping nonJews is not a crime as they are not human etc
It's legit? Shit. For fuck's sake. Dude wasn't even 70.
What's next; both Patrick Steward and Ian Mckellan in a twofer?
Go away Eliphas, we already told you we don't want any.
Don't come back, or I'll summon Hairgel to kick your ass.