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/tg/, which traditional gaming related "trend"/normie...
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/tg/, which traditional gaming related "trend"/normie forced meme do you hate the most?
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>>44749074
"I love tabletop games, anon, I played Settlers of Catan once!"
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People whining about normies.
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>>44749074
>Cthulhu everything
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The one where a small but outspoken group of social outcasts pretend that they are the only people who have ever played traditional games and somehow should be allowed to dictate the entire hobby from their parents' basements despite the fact that they contribute pretty much nothing to it.
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>>44749074
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>>44749074
OP.
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>>44749074
Is that the lezi chick from supernatural?
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>>44749117
this. worst meme ever.
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>>44749074
I don't deal in memes.
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>>44749123
Me too, man.

My biggest issue with that shit is the people who say that they "love Cthulhu stuff" but when I so much as mention Yog-Sothoth they haven't a clue what I'm even talking about.
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>>44749117
>>44749133
Heh.
I can predict this thread is gonna be awful if it lives.
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>>44749123
This. Pallid fujoshi should never be cuddling Cthulhu plushies. Cthulhu plushies should not exist.
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>>44749170
looks like her, actress Felicia Day. she appeares in a lot of stuff...
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>>44749117
>>44749133
I concur with these niggers.
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>>44749215
>Cthulhu plushies should not exist.
Nah, they just shouldn't be cuddlable by feeble mortal form limited to three dimensions.
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>>44749170
Yes.
She's awful.
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>>44749215
I find the existence of Cthulhu plushies hilarious and great, but mostly because I find HPL incredibly overrated and his fans insufferable.
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>guys
>Guys!!!
>GUYS!!!!!!!!!
>I JUST ROLLED A ONE ISN'T THAT CRAZY!!!!!!
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>>44749117
Concur. Being into /tg/-related activities doesn't preclude one from being a healthy and well-adjusted human being, and the whole concept of "normies" is pretty much embracing that false dichotomy.
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>>44749133

/tg/ on suicide watch
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>>44749215
>Cthulhu plushies should not exist.
Anything that turns Lovecraft's memory into a joke is fine by me.
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>>44749074

You, your "normie" bullshit, and your hateboner for Felicia Day are the worst. Leave /tg/ and never return.
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>thread
Pic extremely related
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>>44749402
>le overrated because he's popular :^DDD
hipster please go
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>>44749215

>Not appreciating the intended irony

Come on. They're cute_____________
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>>44749117
>>44749133
this, fuck you OP
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>>44749215
Lovecraft was crazy, and his nightmares being turned into adorable cartoon characters fit only for snuggling makes me happy.
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Dice towers, fictional character alignment grids, the term "rollplaying", dice shaming, intentionally making poor combat decisions to avoid "metagaming", electronic dice and character sheet apps, NAT FUCKING 20, DMs who fudge dice rolls to "keep the story interesting/moving forward", and referring to real life things in D&D terms.
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>>44749458
I think the problem wasn't Anon's hobbies, rather it was Anon who was the problem.
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>>44749515

Not him but listing your hobbies as vidya and shit really did get you beat severely back in the day, if what my uncle tells me is true.

These days it seems to make literally zero difference. I've told people who are (for lack of a better word) /r9k/'s "Chad" boogeyman and they're always nice about it. Most normies at least occasionally play games of some sort these days, they're just usually casuals (which is fine).
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>>44749502
>the term "rollplaying"
This is like, the one thing on /tg/ that gets me angry. It implies a false dichotomy between a well thought out character and knowing the rules of the game. Pic related.
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>>44749502
>Dice towers
Sure.
>fictional character alignment grids
Harmless fun.
>the term "rollplaying"
How else do you want to refer to boring players who exclusively interact with the GM through the clack of plastic against the table?
>dice shaming
Yeah.
>intentionally making poor combat decisions to avoid "metagaming"
You sound like a rollplayer.
>electronic dice and character sheet apps
Someone was molested by a convenient smart phone app, apparently.
>NAT FUCKING 20
Do you hate the idea of a crit, or is this more the overly excited reaction that you dislike?
>DMs who fudge dice rolls to "keep the story interesting/moving forward"
I can see this being polarizing.
>and referring to real life things in D&D terms
As with all things, there's a time and a place for everything.
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>>44749215
I've a friend who's son's favorite bedtime book is "C is for Cthulhu" I have mixed feelings about it, especially when I hear the child attempt to say "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"

but there are indeed too many badly done things regarding "eldritch abominations" out there...

>>44749343
why is she awful?
>says the guy who's only seen her in a couple of shows.

>>44749402
Lovecraft has his ups and downs.
The Call of Cthulhu being a down in my opinion...

>>44749458
>>44749549

...I intentionally stigmatized myself in grade-school...nobody picks on you when you imply that your hobbies include gun-cleaning and blowing shit up.

never had the /tg/ stigma. I made one I could cast off once I left school...

>>44749502
for me it's only the people who do these things wrongly or too often.
>if you need a dice tower someone around you is too distrustful or untrustworthy
>etc. etc.
though, electronic dice at the actual table are a shitty thing to do unless nobody else has any...
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>>44749549
Maybe a long time ago, but I'm 30 and the only people who gave me shit for /tg/ and /v/ hobbies were people who were already giving me shit for other reasons. Literally nobody else cared.
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>>44749502
>DMs who fudge dice rolls to "keep the story interesting/moving forward"
Forever player detected, every GM I know has done this shit and it almost always works out for the best.
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>>44749074
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>>44749573
Not him, but I personally hate the "Nat 20 lets you warp reality!" meme. Nat 20 is at best an automatic success, and if you have a 1 in 20 chance of succeeding in ANYTHING you try, no matter how improbable, then your world is a cartoon.
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>>44749074
I have no idea what the fuck that even means.
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>>44749631
Then it's a good thing nat 20s on skill checks aren't a thing, isn't it?
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>>44749613
It's literally the reason DM screens are a thing. They hide what the DM is rolling so that the players don't know that he's lying.

And DM screens have existed fucking forever, they're not new. So why this nigger is acting like this is some weird new fad is beyond me.
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>>44749573

Not him, but I hate how natural 20's have turned into this weird meme where rolling one let's you do the impossible for no real reason.

They also are extremely over saturated in D&D stories and usually agitate the above problem.
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>>44749422
Yeah, I fucking hate the idea that you have to be some greasy no life loser to be able to enjoy these fucking hobbies. Stop it with these retarded basement-dwelller clubs. If it invites "normies" that's G O O D N E W S.
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>>44749421
I don't like Wil much either, but to be fair he did roleplay since a teenager, contributed to Dragon magazine and was involved in geeky hobbies as long as anyone here.

He's not a poseur, he's one of us, whether we like him or not.
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>>44749074
"People sometimes commit suicide/murder over tabletop games" and "People who play tabletop have trouble separating fantasy from reality"
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>>44749653

Tell that to these casuals who read /tg/ screen caps on Facebook or Reddit and bring that into the hobby with them.
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It's not a trend, per say, but I fucking hate this complete lack of enthusiasm I experience from players in general. And not just a small sample size either. The obvious comeback from someone who's retarded would be "lol if ur the common factor it must be u!", but we know that's not the case because I can bring up any video of a group playing D&D right now and see the exact same thing.

No matter how much the DM flourishes, acts, portrays scenes, or cranks up the tension or drama, somehow all players can ever muster up is "Eh, I roll perception I guess.". End on a tense cliffhanger? No response. A favorite friend from the past shows up? Yeah, cool, whatever.

If you don't care about what's going on, why do you keep showing up? Why do players only seem to exist with this "I can only ever put 0 effort into my hobby" mentality?
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>>44749739
Seems easy enough to fix.
>"Uh, there's no such thing as a nat 20 on skill checks"
>Are you sure?
>"Yeah, sorry"
>Oh, okay.
See? That wasn't hard.
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>>44749707
You can dislike someone without questioning their credibility
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>>44749117
Yep that.
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I hate the "fictional morality must be based on real life morality" meme
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>>44749696
>Stop it with these retarded basement-dwelller clubs. If it invites "normies" that's G O O D N E W S.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here buckaroo. It's true that being into tabletop and whatnot doesn't automatically preclude you from being a normal functioning human being, but that's really the last thing you want. There's a difference between being normal, and being a normalfag. Once your hobby starts getting flooded with normalfags it's only a matter of time before it starts getting gutted like a fish.

We've seen it with comic books and video games, don't repeat our mistakes.
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>>44749787
On 4chan? Oh, no, you can't.
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>>44749613

Honestly I hate fudged dice as a GM and a player.

Makes things feel less exciting knowing that there is an invisible safety net that prevents me from falling.

That and many GMs think they are subtle with them when it's rarely true.
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>>44749798
>We've seen it with comic books and video games, don't repeat our mistakes
>this is what faggots actually believe
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>>44749549
Depends on where ya are. In some isolated places D&D is still considered satanic and could get you a beating or a visit from the local priest.
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>>44749795
>every character is a murderhobo player detected
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I don't know what to call it, but it's something I've had to deal with multiple times already with someone in my groups.

>guy is outcast most of his life, finally gets a real girlfriend in college or something. Girlfriend is some couch activist, and this guy bends over backwards and completely changes his ideology to please her because he's so scared of losing his shitty girlfriend

Is this a meme? Because I've been seeing it a lot
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>>44749821

How are you liking the new Squirrel Girl anon?
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>>44749832
That's not what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about applying real world modern stigmas onto fictional characters where that stigma doesn't exist in that setting. Ie shit like slavery or arranged marriages or whatnot.
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>>44749848
Eh, the art is a bit derpy, and Squirrel Girl has never been my thing, so I haven't checked it out. Is it any good?
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>>44749798
>We've seen it with comic books and video games
I've never seen so many good videogames before. And comics, actually. Yeah, they're not the one marketed and advertised, and shit, but they still exist. Your failure to search and find shit you like isn't a failure a market. It's your failure only.

>>44749848
Please, Marvel stuff was better when it was actually marketed towards the general public.
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>>44749809
Fuck you asshole you don't know shit, I bet your wife gets fucked by men with hairy bums while you play 4th edition with her son!
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>>44749821
Are you blind anon?

Just because the sjw boogieman is often invoked falsely doesnt mean that it isnt real. Its coming for table top just be ready when it gets here.
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>>44749761
Some people just want to turn their brains off and play a fun tabletop game with their friends, not everything has to be some super serious involving political campaign with loads of drama and hardcore roleplaying. I can't forgive players who never know their shit, but people who just want chill out and play are always welcome and usually never negatively impact the game. Take a chill pill anon.
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>>44749881
Thank you.
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>>44749885
People "turning their brains" off are really just people who never turn their brains on.
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>>44749884
Excuse me, just because a video game contains a lesbian or some blogger ends a post with #Killallmen the "Ess Jay Dubyas" have killed vidya.
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>>44749821
Look how great comics are now :)
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>>44749859
Ah my mistake, I completely agree. For players like that you gotta give them a dose of dogs in the vineyard.
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>>44749783
It's a houserule that propagates itself through those kinds of people. I remember being forced to roll a skill check I was literally incapable of failing because "there's always natural 1s", after the session I explained that natural 1's and 20's don't actually apply to anything but attack rolls and saving throws; which was met with universal disbelief at my table. We still use that rule, and I fucking hate it.

>>44749821
Are you fucking kidding me? Comic books went through a fucking dark age with the CCA, and they're still getting kicked in the genitals every now and again, the only reason they even get a recovery time is because people long since moved onto video games, which have gone through no less than 6,000 moral outrages since the fucking 90's and are still going through issues of censorship and moral crusading.
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>>44749939
>reading Wonder Woman
>ever
I found your problem. Bad writers have always inserted their politics/fetishes in comics, it's nothing new.
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>>44749927
to be fair I think its come and is now going.
who actually had their games ruined byeclipse phases' gender neutral thing or that one WoD game that was obviously about internet trolls?
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>>44749885
There's no such thing as "turning your brain off to have fun".

There's being a fucking idiot, and then there's not being a fucking idiot.

If you're in the former camp, you'd think you would MAKE SURE PEOPLE KNOW THAT BEFORE YOU WASTE THEIR TIME JOINING A GAME.

Or, do you just believe that everyone is always entitled to play, and how they act in the game is irrelevant to that, because they're entitled?
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>>>/pol/
>>>/r9k/
>>>/v/
>>>/co/
>>>/b/
>>>/gg/
>>>/out/
I unkindly ask you all to fuck off to an appropriate board where you can be with fellow retards.
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>>44749727
>"People sometimes commit suicide/murder over tabletop games"
>"People who play tabletop have trouble separating fantasy from reality"

Just like religion, amirite?
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>>44749812
>invisible safety net
So you don't understand what fudging dice is for, then.
It's not to artificially save the players from themselves.
>>44749859
So edgelord murderhobo?
In most games, unless the setting specifically is based on real life historical mores (and it will tell you) or the setting works on a different set of assumptions, then it works with a approximation of modern ideals.
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>>44749833
My group has, I hesitate to call him this, a friend who changes everything about himself to try and impress anyone new he meets, so when he was dating an upper class girl he started getting more right wing. It's actually funny watching him with us because he always tries to be what he percieves you as, so around one person he's a musician, around another he's an actavist, around me he's racist because for some reason he thinks I hate jews.
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>>44749980
/tg/ is the retardest board on 4chan, man.
It's where every other board sends its retards, always has been.
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Don't forget to report the thread, please.
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>>44749573
>How else do you want to refer to boring players who exclusively interact with the GM through the clack of plastic against the table?
Different players engage with the game in different, implying any one way is superior to any other is ridiculous.

>You sound like a rollplayer.
I'm a DM.

>Someone was molested by a convenient smart phone app, apparently.
I don't like phones at my table, and it's hardly more convenient than just rolling dice/using a pencil.

>Do you hate the idea of a crit, or is this more the overly excited reaction that you dislike?
I hate the player mentality that a natural 20 (outside of combat) must automatically succeed in any situation.

>>44749613
>Forever player detected, every GM I know has done this shit and it almost always works out for the best.

I'm sure it works out great for them. It does let them keep their game going exactly how they want it to.
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>>44750009
>I'm thinking of switching over to quests from tabletop.
Top fucking kek.
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>>44749939
Thats a troll right?
They didn't actually say that did they?
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>>44749502
As a gm, I know and every player knows gms fudge a few dice rolls to not completely deck a party member. Hell, I use it as a means of control.

If I have a weasel or a rules lawyer trying to tell me my simplified grappling rules that save 5 minutes of rolling or cheating their own dice rolls I tell them I will no longer fudge any rolls for or against them. One guy didn't take me seriously, so i removed my gm screen and rolled a crit right in front of him from a stone golem. His -6hp was a good memory for him to have. This keeps people honest and doesn't let sessions become a bog of arguing over nothing.
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>>44749969
I know you're entitled as fuck for expecting every single player to act and behave how you want them to.
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>>44749812
As a forever GM, I agree that fudging rolls can make things less excitings. But I do it sometimes, when I feel it would just let the players down. Or when it would outright stop the game, like if their characters were gonna die, we're only halfway through the time the scenario is going to last and it would take too much time creating new characters.
I don't fudge rolls for DH, for example. Characters are quick enough to create.
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>>44749939
And before it was underaged/weird sex from other writers, or nutty right-winger, and now you have nutty left-winger.

Doesn't change shit.
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>>44750044
As the DM, I kind of have that right. I get to choose who plays and who doesn't. And since it's not fun for ME to have players who are disengaged and don't give a shit, then that is not the kind of group I want to put together.

The problem comes when players insist on not telling you "By the way, I am literally incapable of any sort of engagement. I will monotone my way through every situation no matter how involved I am, and I don't see a reason to change", it means you have to waste a lot of time sifting through shit players.

I know as a player, any game will do for you because you have no standards and just want to roll dice, but that doesn't mean you actually get to be in every game just because it's there.
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>>44749549
I was in a private school, and they banned mtg and Pokémon back in the day despite only 5 people even playing the tcgs. If we even mentioned did it was ISS for two days, and the jocks would steal our shit and dump it or hock it if it was "nerdy". This stuff happens, just some people didn't have to deal with it.
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>>44749993
I specifically said stigma that doesn't exist in that setting.
Not to mention most game settings have nothing even remotely resembling modern morality.
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>>44749707
pretty sure anon is disliking the ''the gods conspire against me winning a childrens boardgame'' persona rather than the faggot himself
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>>44750110
I dislike every part of that faggot.
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>>44750038
its real.
I'm so sorry
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>>44750038
no, that one is real.
If i remember gorectly the storyline got some kind of progressiveness reward
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>>44750094
Same for me, and I went to a public school.
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>>44750092
>As the DM, I kind of have that right.
So you're admitting that you're completely entitled and that you're active dismissing players because of minor gripes with how they play a fucking game? How petty are you?
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>>44749594
>why is she awful?

Basically?
She's a shitty person, and incredibly insincere.

Which honestly wouldn't be such an issue if the "nerd media" didn't worship the ground she walks.
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>>44749211
Nah, I'm in an ok mood today.
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>>44749939
That's a pretty funny edit. What was she really saying?
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>>44749594
>why is she awful?

I don't know, I've seen her in plenty of stuff and never saw any reason to call her "awful."
I do know there's some spergotron who makes threads about how much he hates her all the time. I think he feels that she's patronizing towards his people, the perma-virgin mega-nerds. Or maybe she didn't answer his fan letter and now she's ugly and terrible.

We also get the same thing with Wil Wheaton threads, but at least he comes across a little too smug now and then. I never saw a justification for Felicia Day hate, except "ew a girl and a normie reeeee."
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>>44750185
It's not an edit.
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>>44750166
She has a vagina. Of course nerds are going to worship her.
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>>44750209
No way this shit is real. DC wouldn't get away with portraying feminism as violent psychopaths who torture helpless opponents for no real reason.
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>>44749996
Did he find out you browse 4chan, because you know thatll do it
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>>44750166
>Trusting the media
>Implying the media speaks for the people it's supposed to represent
>Implying the media isn't horribly corrupt and self-serving

>>44750210
I don't see any worshipping, all I see is REEEEEEEEE
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>>44750234
mansplaining is a real reason dontcha know
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>>44749871
>Please, Marvel stuff was better when it was actually marketed towards the general public.

I am agreeing so fucking hard right now.
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>>44750234
Why wouldn't feminists want to be portrayed accurately?
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>>44749927
I never said it killed vidya but it has infected it. Side effects include censorship, creative fear from designers, and injection of political values into game design.
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>>44749074
All these shitposting threads.
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>>44750210
>She has a vagina. Of course nerds are going to hate her.
Both works. The only there won't be is indifference. The only women men don't hate or worship are the grannies, desu.
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>>44749859
Are you talking about slavery and arranged marriages regarded as bad or just their use in general? I use slavery a lot in my campaigns and don't see it as a bad thing in those civilizations since it's their economic choice, although it tends to be used by less than moral groups.
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>>44749939
So "mansplaining" confirmed for always being truthful?
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>>44750200
I can't speak for everyone but Felicia Day seems to have no internal filter, based on the inane comments she makes on twitter, and that really irritates me. Also the fact that she gets treated like some sort of pioneer for being a woman who enjoys videogames and tabletop I find it more harmful than good because it makes people think women being 'nerdy' is uncommon and should be commended.

Also she is a girl and a normie reeeeeee
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>>44750038
No, that one is real...
So is the female Thor one where one of the female villains knocks out her henchman and hand herself over to Thor as a ''fellow female freebie''.


I don't mind politics in my comics, but not at the cost of any suspense in the story.
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>>44750210
That's the thing though, there are plenty of women who work in various "nerdy" industries who don't get half the credit she does.

Roberta Williams, Rihanna Pratchett, Ursula LeGuin, Octavia Butler, and hundreds of others have contributed much more greatly to nerddom, and have done so with more talent than Felicia Day.
Yet Felicia Day receives endless worship.
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>>44750234
Honestly, Marvel is far more SJW now. DC has it pretty bad, but nowhere near as bad as Marvel.
For DC, it's something stupid every other 5 issues.
Marvel does some propaganda piece every issue
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>>44750200
She has a recognizable voice and the characters she voices are universally annoying because she doesn't even try to act. Everytime she voices someone it's just her and not a character.
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>>44749993
>then it works with a approximation of modern ideals.

How boring.
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>>44750259
>all I see is REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Bitch, if I say I'm in a good mood then that's that. Don't change the status quo.
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>>44750301
Isn't "mansplaining" and "cissplaining" basicaly "their use of logic and evidence is hurting my fee-fees"
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>>44750310
>Ursula LeGuin
I remember asking /lit/ about feminist fiction, and all I got about her was that she was a degenerate and that people who were reading her were pussies since her stories were about that.

But again, I asked /lit/.
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>>44750007
Jesus, if you think this is retarded NEVER go on /v/, its like the cthulhu mythos of retardation over there, it will turn your brain to mulch
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>>44749848
>How are you liking the new Squirrel Girl anon?
How is she a problem and not Asian Hulk, Captain Black America or Whor?
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>>44750311
Reading either of those was stupid then, and it's fucktarded now.
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>>44750352
>Captain Black America
>complaining about Falcon taking the shield
Bruh do you even comics.
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>>44750303
>inane comments she makes on twitter

Aha, I found the problem. Twitter exists solely for people to make inane comments and for other people to get inordinately worked up over that. Best to just ignore that shit and spare your blood pressure. It's much easier to get through life that way.

>>44750322

Eh, you could say the same thing about Robert DeNiro or Humphrey Bogart. But I guess if you find her voice annoying then that would get old fast.
>>
>>44749074
This isn't exclusive to "normies" and includes vidya, too, but the idea that being a "gamer" is some kind of identity. I angst whenever I see the statement, "As a gamer..."
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>>44750306
Indeed, much of Sci-Fi would not have been made were we to not involve politics.
The issue is whether the politics serve as a framework for the story, a theme if you will, and thus serve the narrative, or are just hamhandedly inserted into the narrative at its detriment.

>>44750322
What, you mean the non-heterosexual almost supernaturally (If not supernaturally) gifted woman of incredible perkiness isn't unique?
Surely you jest.
>>
>it's a single line of green text thread/post.
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The comic industry is some supreme faggot shit. Long live yellowmen drawing babes dumping their tits out.
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>>44750342
>Ursula LeGuin
Well, she was a pioneer. But her stories are basically fanfic-tier shit with main protagonist who is super awesome girl who can do everything and everyone is stupid but her, you guys. And she had some horrible views on guys that are somehow offensive no matter where you land on political spectrum.
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>>44749939
Where did she punch him?

The angles don't function.
>>
>>44749215
>tfw I gave my 5 year old nephew a round snuggly cthulhu plushie and convinced him that if he slept holding it it would give him good dreams
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>>44750384
Yes i am complaining. Rogers will be back and Falcon then will obediently go back to his role. Let the fucker have his own identity. And let's not pretend that Rogers won't be back, Bucky wasn't cap for long neither.
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>>44750342
There was your first mistake.

>>44750384
Falcon is definitely the logical choice for the next Cap, I think the reason the complaints rolled in was because of all the titles being passed at the time which were utterly retarded.

(It's fucking amazing how the creators of Kamala Khan managed to entirely miss the point of their own character. I mean FFS "Empowered" managed to this shit better)
>>
>>44750417

Ironically Ged the main character in Earthsea is a strong malr character and pretty cool at teaching manly lessons like being independent, level headed, and not overly concerned with female attention.

I agree she's hardcore feminazi in other pieces but she also wrote one of my favourite characters of all time. And while it had some SJW shit because
>lol no white people except the bad guys
I actually still enjoyed reading a fantasy world where people weren't just white
>>
>>44750417
So, you mean. Like. You didn't read any of her stuff, uh?
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>>44750388
Other people then follow that up by not saying stupidly inane shit outside of twitter.
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>>44750444
>Let the fucker have his own identity.
It.
Doesn't.
Sell.
>>
>the most "normie" forced meme--

Yeah, no, OP. Fuck you, the horse you rode in on, the whore of a mother who gave birth to you, the bastard of a father who wasted his sperm to give you life, and you know what, fuck your little dog, too! I fucking hate REEEEEEEEEfags like you, trying to make the hobby I at least *try* to enjoy and get my family involved in a fucking "SOOPA SEEKURT KROOB" where only the "worthy" may enter and partake in consuming the fruits.

You think I feel proud when I try to stonewall my dad from finding out what I'm in to? You wanna know why I have to lie, straight-faced, to my mom when she asks me about the RPG books/.pdfs I buy? Do you honestly believe I feel comfortable keeping my (18-year-old) little sister from cosplaying at the conventions she basically invites herself with me?

It's people like you that I have to protect my family from, asshole. I want them to enjoy and have fun with this hobby, I really do. But I'm afraid of what REEEEEEEfags like you will do to them.

So go fuck yourself with the rustiest cactus you can find, OP. You and your ilk disgust me to no end.
>>
>>44750472
...
He never claimed to.

He said that was the response of /lit/.

>>44750444
It's the problem with passing the buck in comics, it's never permanent.
>>
>>44750417
Are you sure you don't mean Anne McCaffrey? She had a creepy thing for gays.
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>>44750451
>It's fucking amazing how the creators of Kamala Khan managed to entirely miss the point of their own character.
Which is?

>>44750497
>He never claimed to.
Riiiight.
>>
>>44750444
Yeah, but until Steve comes back, somebody has to wear the red white and blue, and it's either gonna be Falc or Bucky.
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>>44749761
Totally agree anon. I've cancelled the last 4 games due to lack of response. I only play with friends right now and while they sound excited beforehand, they turn shy during the game. I know its not me nectar m because they swear I do great, and they keep asking me to run games, but I have to have fun too you know?
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>>44750160
>and that you're active dismissing players because of minor gripes with how they play a fucking game?

Yes, I weed out players all the time. Again, I have that ability, because I am the DM. If you want a game where you can just "chill out" with other lazy, uninvolved faggots and make bad jokes and flake out all the time, you can go DM your own game and invite those people.

Surprise, we get to choose the types of people we enjoy hanging out with.
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>>44750388
Humphrey Bogart plays a very convincing greedy craven villian in Treasure of the Sierra Madre. He was capable of playing an immense range of characters even if he always carried a certain amount of style. Comparing Day to Bogart is like comparing the Star Wars prequels to Citizen Kane. It's being really fucking unfair to Day.
>>
>>44750510
>Which is?

The same as empowered.
She's an insert for a fan, with the perspective of a fan, who gets embroiled within the world she so admires.

She's interesting because she's a fan, a bit of a dork, and acutely aware of just how cool everything she is doing is. She's not a badass super hero who spouts self confident one liners.

Again, she's a less fanservicey non-white Empowered. (Which I'm all for)

Which is fine and fucking dandy, except it took them like two issues to fuck it up.
>>
>>44750495
You are an immense faggot and should be dismembered by a faulty chinese escalator.
>>
>>44750506
I started reading some of her works too young to notice...but now that you point it out, yeah, she does. doesn't stop her from being a pretty good author, just like it didn't stop Heinlein...
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>>44750565
>Which is fine and fucking dandy, except it took them like two issues to fuck it up.
How?
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>>44750342
That's a pretty accurate description. A good chunk of her books tend to be little more than cramming down the reader's throat whatever message she's trying to convey.

Some of her stories are subtle enough for them to be enjoyable, but as >>44750417
said, most aren't...
>>
>>44750580

Same to you and I hope it fucking festers, you fucking asshat.
>>
>>44749074
Character building being integral to the game.
>>
>>44750584
>too young to notice
I'm pretty sure gay gang rapes aren't that hard to miss.
>>
>>44749450
The best answer. There is nothing wrong with her.
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>>44750668
You'd be surprised when you're youthful and reading about dragon riding flame-thrower ladies and crazy badasses who decide it'll be a good idea to attack planets single-handedly.
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>>44750591
I don't want to derail the thread, but basically?
She's too succesful, and pretty much immediately loses the perspective of the fan in any meaningful way.

>>44750625
Man, you are just one incredibly shitty person, aren't you?
>>
>>44749549
Yeah, I'm old enough that gaming was considered weird when I was on school. You didn't even want to say you liked warhammer or DnD. I'm not even that old.

In a private moment I'll admit I do find the same kind of people that ostracized me for being a nerd claiming to be nerds for playing a platinum selling game annoying as hell.
>>
>>44750685
SHhh.

It's okay, we've seen your posts defending her shit now.
You can go now.
>>
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>>44750495
nice meltdown
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>>44750390
If it's a big part of your life what's the problem? If someone plays a lot of sports and sports are a big part of their life, they wouldn't think twice about calling themselves an athlete.
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>>44750749
There's been a wave against the notion of self identifying with your nerd stuff these last couple of years.

Which is just odd.
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>>44750749
Because it's really fucking gay and won't get you laid. Good luck and God bless.
>>
>>44750545

Okay, say John Wayne, then. There's a guy who never played anybody but John Wayne in anything. Like that Bible epic where he plays Roman soldier John Wayne who waddles up to Jesus on the cross and is all "Tuh-ruly, he wuz the sun of GAAAAWD."
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>>44750414
I can get behind that
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>>44750769
Why is that a problem? It may be odd, but why does it matter at all?
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>>44750784
Are you really gonna run down a list of actors until you hit one that doesn't have much character range and then go Day is good by proxy?

Because that's not making Day look good at all.
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>>44750784
John Wayne could get away with always playing John Wayne, because John Wayne is fucking awesome. Dude learned how to catch animals for his role in Hatari.
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>>44750725
I just don't understand the irrational hatred of her. Or any celebrity really.
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>>44750827
I don't think doing it is odd, I think the wave against it is odd.

It doesn't matter to me anyway. I shall identify as I wish.
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>>44750706

If wanting my family to enjoy this hobby with me makes me a shitty person, then I will fucking be that sort of shitty person. I'm legit not comfortable wit them joining the hobby as it stands right now.

>>44750743

Nice one-liner. You practice a lot or did you just get luck of the draw this time around?
>>
>>44750851
John Wayne also TRIED to do shit outside his comfort zone.
He wasn't necessarily good at it, but he damned well tried.
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>>44749074
"normie forced meme?"

Do you ever, like, stop and read the things you type and think about what you're saying?

Also >>44749133
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>>44750854
I don't like her.
Call it irrational if you wish, but I don't like her personality, I don't like any of her work, and I don't like the hero worship she receives.
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>>44750668
which books?
I may have missed them or the implications.

I was too busy reading to get to threadfall or surviving on a planet where the ground eats you at night...

>>44750699
>a good idea to attack planets single-handedly.
which one was that? it's been a while for me...
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>>44750828
>Because that's not making Day look good at all.

Didn't say it was. I'm just trying to give a long view of things.

>>44750851

I always found him to be a hypocritical asshole outside his films. He was ready to spit on anti-war protestors and hippies who didn't want to go to Vietnam and get their asses shot off, but when it was HIS turn in WWII, and other actors were shipping off overseas into danger, he cut a deal to put his ass in a nice safe movie studio, where he could PRETEND to fight Germans and Japanese in propaganda films instead. I don't have a lot of respect for him due to that.
>>
>>44750495
I agree with you. It's not like there's a conspiracy to make "tradition games" politically correct.
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>>44749639
Well then lurk more you fucking newfaggot.
>>
>>44749985
Nah, I couldn't care much less on religion as long as it's not the "kill everyone who disagrees" or "Hey, you should drink this awesome koolaid. Hell, give some to the kids, too!" kind. I'm able to disagree with someone without resorting to shit-flinging.
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>>44750967
>he cut a deal to put his ass in a nice safe movie studio
Wasn't he deemed essential to homefront moral?
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>>44750495
Oh no, someone might hit on my slutty sister as she dumps her tits outta her cosplay of morgan le fay.

Not only are you an immense faggot but you are also a simpering coward.
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>>44749459
nah, he's overrated 'cause he's awful
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>>44750625
>>44750861

You mad
>>
>>44750967
That other actors exist? Yeah I think everyone knows that. Doesn't help Day's one note existence from getting shoehorned into everything.

Can't wait to hear her doing the same old manic pixie voice no matter what the setting or subject matter is.
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>>44749074
>traditional gaming related "trend"/normie forced meme

See, here's what I don't get. Why do you care about "normie" stuff in traditional games? Lets assume all this you complain about exists. Traditional games are not video games. You buy a rulebook along with some models or whatever and that's it. Everything else is your prerogative. The story, the characters, even the rules are up for change if you want it. It's not like when you buy a video game where you have to buy the gameplay and everything else in a package and you have essentially no liberty to change anything without an extreme investment of your time.

Yes, I do find many things annoying but frankly none of this affects me at all. Some tumblrtard (or /pol/ack for that matter) has no say in how I run my game with my friends regardless of how loud they cry. Felicia Day? Like I give a shit. I didn't even know this woman existed until now.

Just do your own thing. At the end of the day that is the greatest strength of traditional games.
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>>44750856
I misread your post. But yeah, I agree. I think people are just being elitist and contrarian about their hobby.
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>>44750699
>crazy badasses who decide it'll be a good idea to attack planets single-handedly

I think I know who you're talking about but maybe not, are you thinking of F'nor at the end of like the second book where he goes full retard and decides to go fight the entire red star?
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>>44750340
No, it's explaining something to someone who already understands what you're talking about, possibly better than you do, because you have a penis and are therefore qualified as a master of all knowledge.
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>>44749939
>one example
>representative of the whole industry
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>>44749969
its like when you are the number 1 and trying your damndest to win a multiplayer game and then two chucklefucks with mics join and start talking ponies and dancing in the spawn somewhere.

go play a different game.
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>>44751106
There's already an expression for doing that which isn't dependent on danglies, it's called being an ignorant asshole.

I mean, that happens everywhere else too. People underestimate what others know and overestimate what they know in both genders.
>>
>>44751106
Can you cite one instance where this has ever happened?
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>>44749566
You can't pretend like there aren't people out there who are incapable of seeing RPGs as anything other than a collection of numbers and dice rolls. I've played with many of these types of people. They simply never attempt to do anything other than stats stats stats builds feats roll roll stats roll
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>>44749446
The hell is your problem?
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>>44750861
I'm a cool cucumber while you have a 1000 sq. mile exclusion zone.
>>
>>44751152
Except the term "mansplaining" exists because it was created as a dismissive tactic, used to try and wave away someone's arguments or invalidate their position because they're "doing something wrong", and that thing is explaining something to a woman/colored person/whatever.

And it ignores the fact that apparently feminists know everything and should be listened to specifically because they're NOT men, at least according to their ideology.
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>>44751182
Google it, i don't have some kind of magical obligation to teach you wht you are wrong
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>>44751273
You claimed it existed, therefore the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate the truth of that claim.
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>>44751273
How about you oblige your face into wet cement. Your posting is a joke.
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>>44751297
Fuck off, shitlord.
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>>44751176
Mansplainers aren't necessarily wrong, they're just unnecessary - and they're assuming they are necessary. That's the annoying thing. If I know what Vancian casting is, I don't need someone explaining it to me, even if their explanation is perfectly sound. I sure as hell don't need them assuming I need it explained because I have ovaries.
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>>44751297
>>44751273
[loud lawyer voice]
OBJECTION!
on the grounds that this is not a courtroom and the debate need not directly follow any standardized set of rules or practices.
[/loud lawyer voice]

I am of the opinion that these threads keep happening because interpersonal rage is fun to watch and they seem to allow a relatively harmless outlet for it..
>>
>>44751297
If i had to correct every ignorant asshole i talk to i would have spend all day looking for sources.
If said assholes instead took 10 minutes of their lives to find the evidene themselves then i get to play my games in peace...

Hmmm, which one to pick
>>
>>44751106
>>44751273
>defending a shitty dismissal tactic
>you're wrong but I have no obligation to prove to you anything

Is this the part where I tell you to fuck of back to tumblr or should I wait for you to tell me to check my privilege?
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>>44751315
You went a step too far, mate. Trolling only works if you're not obvious, and you basically just did the equivalent of trollface.jpg.
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>>44751340
>on the grounds that this is not a courtroom and the debate need not directly follow any standardized set of rules or practices.

Logic still works the same way: You claim something is true, it's your job to prove it. We don't just accept claims as true until someone comes around and proves them wrong, that makes no sense.
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>>44751343
You're not playing any games and are going to shitpost on /tg/ instead.
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>>44751329
>That's the annoying thing. If I know what Vancian casting is, I don't need someone explaining it to me, even if their explanation is perfectly sound.

How do they know you know? Did you tell them? Did you use the system, or a term related to it incorrectly? Would it be "womansplaining" if the same exact situation happened, but with a woman explaining to you a concept or fact you already knew, but they did it anyway assuming they knew better?

>I sure as hell don't need them assuming I need it explained because I have ovaries.
What if they don't know you're a woman? What if you're being an idiot, and they assume that you don't know things, because you act like it? Why are you assuming malice in their action? How do you know they wouldn't be explaining the concept just the same to a man in your position?

All you're doing is shouting "Muh feels!".
>>
>>44751029

Being labelled a coward is much better than being known as a wannabe rapist, which, as it happens, seems to be your leaning if I'm reading your post correctly.

Besides, it's not as if her older brother, who can lift full pallets of 94 lb Portland Cement with one hand and toss them across the fucking room, is standing not two feet away from her, right?

>>44751046

Fuck yeah I mad. I mad at you faggots who want everything made the way *you* want it, *especially* if it's to the detriment of other potential customers. I mad at the publishing companies who cater to you because if they don't their fucking bottom-line nosedives because you faggots will convince others that the companies "don't really care about our community waaaaaaah!"

And I mad at myself for not standing up to you bullies sooner; for not having the balls to call you on your bullshit until I realized it was too late not to anymore.
>>
>>44751375
I'd point out that on the internet a debate like this needs both people working to prove the point as well as people working to disprove the point.

it allows for more interesting entertainment from the watchers...

I also bring up a point, is it still "mansplaining" if a man does it to another man?
>>
>>44751098
The very same instance of F'nor going full retard. It was still amazing and very distracting from all the gay orgies.
>>
>>44751273
>I don't need to educate you!
>>
>>44751147
Since Marvel got it's thing going with the movies they are going out of their way to pander to tumblr demographic. And DC is doing everything to chase down the bandwagon.
>>
>>44751210
Nihilism is the cancer destroying society, and Lovecraft represents enough of a contributor that I will happily embrace anything spitting on his memory, including games where protagonists heroically rise up to punch abominations in the face to awesome metal soundtracks.
>>
>>44749653
There are tons of people who literally think this is how it works. Even my own players get indignant when I deny a nat 20 on a skill check in an absurd/impossible scenario
>>
>>44751442
>I'd point out that on the internet a debate like this needs both people working to prove the point as well as people working to disprove the point.
You'd be wrong. I have no reason to work to disprove your claim, because the default position is to assume it is untrue until you demonstrate the opposite.

>it allows for more interesting entertainment from the watchers...
Not really my concern?

>I also bring up a point, is it still "mansplaining" if a man does it to another man?
I don't know, I don't write the definitions. Feminists tell me that it's not sexist if it's against men, because men have the "institutional power", and also everything men do is sexist BECAUSE of that power. So how something can be both sexist because of it's source, and not sexist because of it's target, I don't know.

You might as well ask if a black person can be racist against an asian.
>>
>>44749573
>How else do you want to refer to boring players who exclusively interact with the GM through the clack of plastic against the table?

I once ran a campaign that I let occasionally spin into a solo session for characters that focused on their backstory and character development.

One player excelled at knowing the rules and then figuring out how to make the most broken builds you have ever seen. Not a bad player, mind you, but he excelled in all parts stats, rules and dice rolling.

When it came time to do his solo session, I built it with this in mind. I knew he loved being able to stomp his enemies and twist the rules to his favor, so I built a few encounters and battles to let him do just that.

But I also wanted to challenge him, so I put a twist at the end. The entire session was to prove himself worthy to the gods so he could get their blessing in rebuilding his lost tribe. He fought and worked his way through their tests only to get to a divine doorstep and be stopped by the demigod doorman who said, 'This last test is simple. Convince me why you deserve this boon.' The player rolls diplomacy and declares his number and I nod and say 'That's nice, now convince him.'

He was a little miffed that I had him actually speaking in character and arguing why his lost tribe deserved being refounded to a figment of our imagination rather than just accepting his roll, but I stood by it and think he was the better for it.

For those that were wondering, the doorman did let him through and the gods did grant his boon.

So, yeah. Where was I going with this? Oh yes, don't have it just one or the other. Blend it together and it sticks out in the player's memory rather than that one time he rolled a 20.
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>>44751433
Jesus, you sound mad. Who the hell bullied you back at school that you are still assblasted about it?
>>
>>44751513
>Lovecraft represents enough of a contributor
You never read anything by lovecraft, don't you?
>including games where protagonists heroically rise up to punch abominations in the face to awesome metal soundtracks.
Kind of like in Dunwich Horror?
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>>44751329
>I sure as hell don't need them assuming I need it explained because I have ovaries.
>all the bad behavior I sometimes receive is because I'm a woman

That attitude alone will make people despise you more than anything else.
>>
>>44751433
I didn't expect to see someone pull an internet tough guy routine in yool 2016 but here we are.

I would unleash sick parkour moves and bisect your faggot skull with my Cold Steel Viking Axe. Your sister would instantly drop her panties and present after seeing me destroy you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEQ41xTUBMI
>>
>>44749502
>dice shaming
what is this
>>
>>44749117
This. /tg/ is more "normie" than any other hobby on this board, simply because it requires IRL social interaction to play it properly. We're all technically normies here.
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>>44750020
>Different players engage with the game in different, implying any one way is superior to any other is ridiculous.
After you just complained about people roleplaying their characters by taking sub-optimal combat choices because it fits the situation.

>I hate the player mentality that a natural 20 (outside of combat) must automatically succeed in any situation.
But it necessarily must, otherwise what is the point of asking for a check if there is literally no possible way to succeed?
>>
>>44751618
Fuck off, I play online and I'm completely antisocial outside of game time.
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>>44751537
>well yeah I gave the guy who loves stomping on my dick everything he wants

Damn he must still be chewing on that lesson gm!
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>>44751604
Google gave me this
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>>44751581
I'd think Dunwich Horror is the exception that proves the rule.
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>>44751623
>But it necessarily must, otherwise what is the point of asking for a check if there is literally no possible way to succeed?
I like the sound of dices rolling on the table.
>>
>>44750306
Not her henchman. Her husband and partner in crime for decades.
>>
>>44751427
If I'm part of a hobby, then assume I know what I'm doing. If I don't, then I'll ask someone for assistance. It may be you, it may not be. But if you just assume I don't know what I'm doing, and decide to explain to me what I should be doing, you're an asshole. If it's because I'm a woman and you're a man, you're mansplaining; if not, you're still an asshole.

Now - if we're currently involved in a game, and I'm breaking the rules somehow, then yes, go ahead and say "hey, that's not how things work." But I don't need an explanation of the entire rules to the game, and I sure as hell don't need one if I just made a mistake or a bad play or something.
>>
>>44749885
If you want to "turn your brain off and have fun" go paly GTA or Call of Duty or watch some action movies or youtube videos or sports.

There is a million "turn your brain off and have fun" activities and many other "put some effort in it to have fun" activities, rooleplaying is the latter.
>>
"Funny" /tg/ pastas like Sir Bearington, Los Tiburon or Old Man Henderson. People who can't stop quoting those at the table or try to shoehorn similar "hilarious" concepts into serious games for teh hella epik win and get upset when they get shot down. People who treat /tg/ as a repository for funny reddit stories.
>>
>>44749458
>I was ashamed of my hobbies and so no one younger than me is allowed to be "hardcore" or "legit"
>>
>>44749833
Happened to Lennon
>>
>>44751671
I agree. I play rpgs to feel engauged and have to think not the opposite.
>>
>>44751666
>If I'm part of a hobby, then assume I know what I'm doing.
This is some of the worst advice I've ever seen when it comes to RPGs.
>>
>>44751649
You'd be wrong.
>>
>>44749885
"ROLEPLAYING game" implies that one should PLAY a ROLE. As in, be a character that is engaged in a story.

If you want to beer and pretzel war game it up, play something else or make sure the entire group is also on the same page.

Playing with shitters like this is a massive drain for those who like to, you know, roleplay in roleplaying games
>>
>>44751209
>You can't pretend like there aren't people out there who are incapable of seeing RPGs as anything other than a collection of numbers and dice rolls.
Read his fucking image. He isn't.
>>
>>44751666
>If I'm part of a hobby, then assume I know what I'm doing.
Why would I do that?

>If I don't, then I'll ask someone for assistance.
Why would I think you'd do that?

>But if you just assume I don't know what I'm doing, and decide to explain to me what I should be doing, you're an asshole.
People explain unnecessary things all the time. This is literally part of human interaction, because we don't walk around assuming everyone is already on the page we want them to be on. Most human beings don't get angry and throw a temper tantrum about this, they just say "Yeah, I know already." and move on with their day.

>If it's because I'm a woman and you're a man, you're mansplaining
How would you even conclude such a thing? Like, what about the context, outside of specifically saying "I'm explaining this to you because you're a woman" would ever cause you to come to the conclusion that someone was explaining a concept to you specifically because of your gender.

Do you really just walk around with the mindset that everything you don't like that happens to you happens solely because of "sexism"? You must really be an unpleasant person to be near.

>if not, you're still an asshole.
Sounds like the only person being an asshole here is you.

>if we're currently involved in a game, and I'm breaking the rules somehow, then yes, go ahead and say "hey, that's not how things work."
I would, but I'm afraid you'd flip the table and yell "QUIT MANSPLAINING, SHITLORD!"

>But I don't need an explanation of the entire rules to the game
You might.

>and I sure as hell don't need one if I just made a mistake or a bad play or something.
...what? If you made a mistake, yes, you do need to have the rules explained. That's the point.
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>>44751343
>i would have spend all day looking for sources.
Because there wouldn't be any sources.
If there were sources, they'd be easy to find.
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>>44751106
Its a shitty tactic feminists uses to dismiss any man who tries to disagree with them. No better than screaming SEXISM.

Or are you going to defend every time I get told I am 'mansplaining' for not bending over and accepting the bigoted tripe feminists spew?
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>>44751720
Obviously this only includes people who are actively part of the hobby, rather than someone who you know are playing for the first time. But if you don't know I'm playing something for the first time, and I don't ask for help, grant me the courtesy of not assuming it's your duty to rescue me.
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>>44751671
>>44751711
>>44751753
>I don't like the way you have fun! Stop it!
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>>44751774
>How would you even conclude such a thing?
It's called being self-centered. Extremely so.
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>>44749939
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>>44751791
>grant me the courtesy of not assuming it's your duty to rescue me.

No one is trying to "rescue" you. People are trying make sure they're not wasting their time with someone who doesn't know what the fuck is going on. You're the one playing the role of damsel here.
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>>44751791
I'm guessing you've never worked tech support.
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>>44751273
>Educate yourself!
Haha, oh wow. I only heard about you people in videos, but you actually exist and you actually tell people to educate themselves. I can't believe it.
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>>44751343
>It takes me all day to find sources
>but it takes ignorant assholes only 10 minutes
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>>44751801
Honest question: why play? Seriously if you are going to all the trouble of writing a character and learning some rules why wouldnt you want to stay engaged?
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>>44751791
>somebody offered help
>help I'm being oppressed
The phrase "Thanks, I got it" would have instantly solved this non-situation where someone was trying to be nice.
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>>44751774
>Why would I do that?
Common courtesy. If someone is investing time in an activity, it's basic human decency to assume they actually know what they're doing, rather than a blank slate to fill with your wisdom.

>Why would I think you'd do that?
That's what people who need help actually do.

>People explain unnecessary things all the time. This is literally part of human interaction, because we don't walk around assuming everyone is already on the page we want them to be on. Most human beings don't get angry and throw a temper tantrum about this, they just say "Yeah, I know already." and move on with their day.
No, most people don't just start explaining things to other people, especially when you're involved in the same hobby. At best, they ask and then explain. If you just explain things all day, then I feel bad for the people around you.

>How would you even conclude such a thing? Like, what about the context, outside of specifically saying "I'm explaining this to you because you're a woman" would ever cause you to come to the conclusion that someone was explaining a concept to you specifically because of your gender.
Observation. If you explain things to women a lot, then it's a pretty easy conclusion to make.

>...what? If you made a mistake, yes, you do need to have the rules explained. That's the point.
If it's a mistake in the rules, yes, saying "that's against the rules" is reasonable. If I make a bad play, I don't need you to spend five minutes telling me why that's a bad play, and why I should bow to your stunning wisdom and game mastery. People learn by making mistakes, and if (for example) I cast a spell too early and wind up out of magic, then I'll learn not to do that in the future.
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>>44749939
DC & Marvel have always had some of the worst writing to exist on any media.
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>>44751791
A shining example of why all women should be murdered. Thank you.

Let's all fuck dudes in dresses instead of putting up with this shit.
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>>44751663
Wait, really?
Good god that is awful writing
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>>44751801
Rolepalying is a group activity. The way you have fun can keep other people from having their fun.

You can go home and play video games however you want. But if you are in a social activity, don't expect everyone to bend over backwards to accommodate your bullshit.
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>>44751644
You make it sound like I was trying to be vindictive and failed. I wasn't trying to teach him a lesson by being 100% roleplaying, I was trying to get him out of 'rollplaying' all the time and dabble in the other side of the spectrum for once.
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>>44750960
All green dragon riders are at the time of their initiation analy raped until they turn gay.
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>>44751897
Assuming that there is not any malicious intent of course, which is what makes it mansplaining
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>>44751919
>If someone is investing time in an activity, it's basic human decency to assume they actually know what they're doing, rather than a blank slate to fill with your wisdom.
That is fucking called suicidal overconfidence. You never worked in a place where knowing what the fuck you are doing is important, didn't you?
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>>44749870
>the art is a bit derpy
Every character looks either downy or trans. It's shit.
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>>44751833
If I don't know what the fuck is going on, then I will ask for assistance from someone who does.

>>44751843
I have, actually. People who call tech support (gasp) are asking for assistance with a problem they're having. Tech support doesn't call people up and tell them they're doing it wrong.

>>44751897
You're "trying to be nice" by assuming I'm ignorant, and that I can't figure things out on your own. Wouldn't you be frustrated if people kept assuming you didn't know your own goddamn hobby?
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>>44751592
This.
>you're an asshole. If it's because I'm a woman and you're a man, you're mansplaining; if not, you're still an asshole.
So to you, "mansplaining" is a word that means "extra asshole". Any pairing of genders doing this means there's an asshole, but if it just happens to be a man talking to a woman, he's not JUST an asshole, but is ALSO "mansplaining".

This "mansplaining" thing is sophistry, a feminist boogeyman designed to make men feel bad about things that they never do, and which never happened, so that their behavior can be controlled. It also feeds the false feminist narrative that women in modern Western society are victims of and are oppressed by men.
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>>44751973
Welcome to comic books.
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>>44751919
>If someone is investing time in an activity, it's basic human decency to assume they actually know what they're doing,
No it's not. I've learned to STOP doing this and explain everything no matter what because if I don't, idiots will waste my time with bullshit nearly every single time. If you'd ever worked tech support or played an MMO you'd know exactly why this is a fucking stupid idea and tabletop games are not magically exempt from this.
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>>44752028
>Every character looks either downy or trans.
That's because they are.
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>>44752025
Are you really equating tabletop roleplaying or similar hobbies with matters of life or death?
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>>44752042
>You're "trying to be nice" by assuming I'm ignorant, and that I can't figure things out on your own.
Yes. Because you probably are a mouth breather who can't tell your ass from hole in the ground. When you prove otherwise we can talk.
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>>44751919
>If I don't, then I'll ask someone for assistance.
>Why would I think you'd do that?
>That's what people who need help actually do.
Seriously nigger? Everyone who needs help asks for help? Since you're crying about your feelings here, I would have figured that even you understood that sometimes people hold their questions inside and don't ask.
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>>44752042
If I can finish a turn of dominions 4 before you can do your tabletop turn then you need to learn to hurry the fuck up.
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>>44752060
If people can't be bothered to learn shit their own lives depends on why should i assume that they know squat about trivial things?
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>>44749761
Wrong type of people/ issues in terms of 'acceptability' of input.

For the former, there's little you can do, beyond pushing them to say or add more, and trying to get enough of the group to do it so it's self-sustaining. The games I play have their moments where people devolve into calculators, but that's because the task they're presented with is difficult. They don't have the time to figure out the best move and be showy about it without holding up everybody. But we also have a bunch of big emotional moments. But all my friends have theatrical backgrounds, so it makes sense that they put in the extra acting effort. I've also had friends who were just there for the mental exercise, and in a group of actors, they'd come around to trying stuff.

The latter issue can be an unspoken one, but it's based on solid footing: the player never knows as much about the situation as the DM. Thus, they can never be certain that their action is "Correct." I don't know how much HP the monster has, so I have no idea if my attack is doing a lot. If I describe my attack as "a full out frenzied assault, slashing, hacking, cutting." and the battle lasts another 12 rounds, it's pretty clear my attack didn't do shit, so I feel like my character isn't contributing. If I say "I run my hands over then walls, knocking occasionally, trying to locate the secret door he used", I have no idea if that's how the door works, or if there's a touch activated trap, or anything.

And the instant a player gets punished for something, they don't want to do it again. This is actually where murderhobos CAME from. Practically every DMing text in the world goes "Does their character have a family? Do you need some instant tension/drama? Threaten them, or imply a threat to them!" Bad DMs take that too far, and kill off character families to show off how evil VILLAIN X is. Player feels helpless, decides next character won't have a close family. Warns other players. Eventually, murderhobos.
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>>44752049
I guess. Never really read that kind of comics. (Eurofag so iznogoud, gaston and other shit of the like) just know of them from movies and wikkiped
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>>44751919
>Common courtesy. If someone is investing time in an activity, it's basic human decency to assume they actually know what they're doing, rather than a blank slate to fill with your wisdom.
I'm a chef. Every single kitchen I've ever worked in began with someone explaining extremely basic shit to me while assuming I've never done it before. The difference between you and I is, I don't think this is sexist. Hell, sometimes it's been women doing it.

>No, most people don't just start explaining things to other people, especially when you're involved in the same hobby.
Of fucking course they do. THIS IS WHY YOUR PERSPECTIVE IS TAINTED. You have this view of the world that is completely false, so when normal things happen, you assume it must be the "sexist fringe" targeting you specifically, rather than the status quo.

>Observation. If you explain things to women a lot, then it's a pretty easy conclusion to make.
How can you observe that? Dudes explain things to other dudes all the fucking time, and no one shouts and yells about being "talked down to" or "invalidated". We say "Yeah, I got it." and move along. Because we don't give a fuck about turning everything into a personal attack and being a victim.

The only thing you "observe" is what happens to you, not what happens to the rest of the world around you, so you develop a skewed picture of reality.

>If I make a bad play, I don't need you to spend five minutes telling me why that's a bad play, and why I should bow to your stunning wisdom and game mastery.
How would anyone know that? If someone makes a mistake or botches something and you don't point it out, chances are they'll KEEP FUCKING DOING IT.
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>>44752045
>means "extra asshole"

I think it's supposed to be just a specific type of asshole.

I'll admit that I've seen guys do this. I get the impression they think maybe the girl will sleep with them if they impress her with their incredible display of knowledge or some shit. Offering to help is one thing, launching into a monologue to show off is another.

>>44752113

Because the rest of us at the table would like you to wrap it up so we can play?
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>>44752060
Are you really so stupid that you can only see the word "suicidal" in one context?
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>>44752121
They are basically the same as any other medium. Most is trash and they cost way too fucking much.
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>>44752021
>malicious intent
What the fuck are you on about? The evil neckbeard is plotting to reinstate the patriarchy by being a dick for 2 minutes? Get a fucking grip on reality and stop with this siege mentality.

>>44752042
>You're "trying to be nice" by assuming I'm ignorant, and that I can't figure things out on your own.
No, dipshit. It's just an extremely small effort to see whether or not everyone is on the same page. It makes for some tedious small talk, prevents wasting time and encourages people not to be fucking autistic to each other.

Shit, when I started playing various /tg/s people always asked if I knew what I was doing or if I played before or whatever. It's common courtesy to ease the new person in rather than assume that they automatically know everything about a niche hobby.

Nobody is out to get you. Grow up.
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>>44752042
>Tech support doesn't call people up and tell them they're doing it wrong.
Telling people that they're doing it wrong and explaining in extreme detail what they need to do to fix their problem so they can't fuck it up worse is part and parcel of tech support, dumbass. Assuming that the person on the other end of the phone line knows what they're doing is a recipe for disaster no matter how much they say they know about computers.
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>>44752138
>I think it's supposed to be just a specific type of asshole.
That idea fails, because as explained earlier, such people are "ignorant assholes". Going further on the basis of gender is stupid.
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>>44752140
Suicide is no laughing matter, anon.
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>>44749074
Minmaxing, Rules lawyering and Playing to win being "playing the game wrong".
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>>44749833
The Shives Effect
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>>44752160
2 minutes again, and again, and again, until it takes up my entire day, until it makes me want to scream...
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>>44752118
>I don't know how much HP the monster has, so I have no idea if my attack is doing a lot. If I describe my attack as "a full out frenzied assault, slashing, hacking, cutting." and the battle lasts another 12 rounds, it's pretty clear my attack didn't do shit, so I feel like my character isn't contributing. If I say "I run my hands over then walls, knocking occasionally, trying to locate the secret door he used", I have no idea if that's how the door works, or if there's a touch activated trap, or anything.

You haven't outlined a reason why these things, despite being situations where you lack information on whether what you're doing is "right", are bad things? So what if you don't know if there's actually a secret door there and it is one you can find by tapping on the wall? You don't know, just like your character doesn't know. That doesn't mean inaction is an option.

You're not SUPPOSED TO know how the door works, or that there's a trap there. You're supposed to experiment in the ways you think will yield results until you find it. That's literally the fucking point of the game.
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>>44752179
Yes it makes difference. Just like femicide is a special kind of homicide.
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>>44752223
How about you actually learn to play you stupid cunt.
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>>44751949
>A shining example of why all women should be murdered. Thank you.
While I'm not with you on that first part, the second part I'm all good for.
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>>44752021
>>>44751897 #
>Assuming that there is not any malicious intent of course, which is what makes it mansplaining
No, according to you above, it's mansplaining when it's a man lecturing a woman. Now you change that to mean there's "malicious intent"? What kind of malicious intent could someone possibly have in explaining a hobby's rules or procedures?
You're not oppressed, you're not a victim because you're a woman. Stop buying into that bullshit.
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>>44749833
I believe that's called "getting pussywhipped" and is not really exclusive to tabletop community.
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>>44752223
>2 minutes again, and again, and again, until it takes up my entire day,

If you're constantly having things explained to you over and over every time you play, it's likely because you're a fucking idiot, not because of "da evil mean patriarchy and it's plot to mansplain until you're frustrated".
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>>44752223
Yes, I'm sure the evil neckbeard locked you into his mom's cellar just so he could explain the intricacies of his favorite edition of D&D.

Oh the sweet feminine tears he shall taste with his cruel cruel manly explanations.
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>>44749458
Am I the only person in the goddamn world who openly vidya / tabletop / lolicons and doesn't give one tenth of a shit who knows about it?

Christ, everyone has their degenerate interests. What are they gonna do, call you out on your degeneracy being degnerate-er than theirs? Please.
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>>44752240
Yeah, femicide is the kind that rules.
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>>44752275
>Yes, I'm sure the evil neckbeard locked you into his mom's cellar just so he could explain the intricacies of his favorite edition of D&D.
This needs to be a new episode of Law & Order.
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>>44752223
You're genuinely pathetic.
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>>44752206
No one said it was, anon. You're trying to censor the post above because it used a word you didn't like. Now stop being a fucking idiot.
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>>44752247
I don't need to educate myself!
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>>44749962
wait, nat20s and nat1s apply to saving throws?

I thought it was only attack rolls.
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>>44752275
>>44752270
>>44752247
Except i already know the fucking rules.
Hell, i know the rules better than all of them, even the fucking gm.
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>>44749707
Well said.
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>>44752173
Read the entire post before responding, please. It makes you look stupid. People CALL tech support asking for help. Tech support doesn't randomly call people up and say "Hey, here's how to make your computer work better."
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>>44752373
How do you know? You just assume they don't know rules as well as you do?
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>>44750166
Basically she's popular so you hate her. Bravo. Go back to reddit.
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>>44752373
But you keep making mistakes, apparently, which is why you're being lectured about them. Why is this? I'll give you a hint: it's not because of anyone's sex.

Give up? It's because you don't act like you know the rules! If you did, you wouldn't have things explained to you so much. Stop thinking of this as a gendered issue - it isn't.
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>>44752373
You obviously don't you stupid bitch!

It wouldn't take three seconds to shut them down if you actually knew what you were talking about.
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>>44752410
Except i am the one who can always call them out when they make a mistake, so no, i do know my shit
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>>44752373
>they're constantly explaining things to me
>but I know the rules better than them
Judging by the rest of your posts I'm inclined to assume you're full of shit one way or another.
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>>44750185
It's an edit 'cause it shatters your fragile ego? How pathetic.
>>
>>44749707

I agree with this. I don't like him that much, but he's not a fraud or anything.
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>>44752455
Are you ABSOLUTELY sure they are the ones who are making mistakes?
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>>44750322
And you make soooo much better voices, anon...
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>>44752468
It looks like an edit because it's something a broad caricature of feminist would do.
>>
/tg/ - Shitposting
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>>44750338
Another fragile ego threatened.
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>>44750434
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>>44752500
She's a voice actor. She is going to be criticized based on her voice acting. She sucks.
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>>44752500
To be fair, anon isn't pait to make funny voices.
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>>44751525
>You might as well ask if a black person can be racist against an asian.

The answer to this is "yes" in case you were wondering
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>>44750434
Well, he is a dreaming monster after all. I'm pretty sure that it could work even in-universe.
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>>44752559
How? Black people don't have institutional power or privilege. How can they be racist?
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>>44749074
Should I put on my normie yellow star while I am on tg?
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>>44752456
The sad part is that it's not even a troll. At least not a man troll.
She types exactly like a girl does.
It's either someone really good at pretending, or it's honestly a girl.
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>>44752596
Yes.
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>>44752559
Racism = prejudice + power. Black people don't have any power.
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>>44752591
They have something vastly more powerful, Popeyes chicken.
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>>44752596
>normaljews can't even spent two minutes without bringing up the shoah
pathetic
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>>44752591
>Black people don't have institutional power
Snrk

It's really hard not to take this bait
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>>44752612
>Racism = prejudice + power.
Find us three dictionaries that agree with you.
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>>44752455
>>44752223
Autism in action
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>>44752500
>You can't criticize someone unless you're better at what they're doing than they are!
It's 2016, how do people who use this retarded logic still exist?
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>>44750234
As a small point of order: punching a bound opponent isn't generally considered 'torture'. Especially given the implied context that she's hitting him to shut him up, that's a pretty generally used attack by both genders.

>>44752236
>Why are these bad things?
I have no incentive to add details that do not improve my chances.

As I said in the next paragraph, no one likes to feel helpless/useless. Describing your actions before knowing the extent of your success LEADS to feeling useless/helpless, as you lack full understanding of the context of your actions.

A simple solution is to have the DM give you that information prior to your description.

"What do you do?"
"I roll Perception, I guess. Roll of 15, total...22"
"You find the secret door. Tell us how."

THAT gives the player the understanding "You succeeded." that gives them the freedom to explain without looking stupid.

>That's the fucking point of the game.
No, the point of the GAME is to have fun with one's friends. That's it's POINT. However, You're right that exploring tactics and choices in the fictional setting is an important part of every one having fun. but "trying 40 different ways to open the door until I guess which one you picked" isn't, to take the extreme version of your proposal.

Further, given the player's lack of knowledge, I don't know if any description I give actively hurts my chances. Therefore, I am at my most effective when I DON'T describe things, because you can't use my wording against me.

Basically, players don't invest themselves fully because they're risk-averse due to results they thought were unfair, or DMs' questionable calls in the past. The trick to fixing that in your group is pushing the group to contribute, which can be simple as adding something like the 'stunt' rules from Exalted. (Describe your action in a vivid way, you get +1 to the roll. Describe your action in a way that uses the environment or another character, +2.)
>>
stop bullying the girl, guys
women are physically incapable of being wrong about anything, don't be sexist
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>>44752638
it wasn't bait, Anon, it's called a joke.
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>>44752612
Man, if you haven't noticed one of them has been running United States for past couple years.
Mostly running them to the ground, but still.
>>
>>44752631
How we could not? People are still dying! Not that long ago six million jews died in holocaust, now it might be up to 20 million! It's still going on!
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>>44752468
>It's an edit 'cause it shatters your fragile ego?
Holy assumptions, Batman. No, it's called an edit because it looks like an edit. Doesn't look like something Wonder Woman would say.
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>>44752612
>mfw a black person is literally sitting on the nuclear launch codes for one of the worlds largest superpowers
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>>44752612
>>
>>44752698
A really poor joke since it's exactly what a feminist would say, with no hints of sarcasm.
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>>44752688
>punching a bound opponent isn't generally considered 'torture'.
Pretty sure it is.
>>
>>44752612
>>44752591
Trying to change the meaning of words with established definitions is only going to inhibit discussion and cannot be useful for anything other than political motives. Language is a living thing and you can't just force a word to mean what you want it to mean just so your agenda is easier to push.
>>
>>44752710
>No, it's called an edit because it looks like an edit. Doesn't look like something Wonder Woman would say.

You do understand you can click that little arrow next to the post number and reverse search the image to confirm everything?
>>
>>44749074
>normie
This
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>>44752758
You do understand you can think before posting and not assume everything is related to an ego?
>>
>>44752758
I'm too scared that it might not be an edit. I prefer denial.
>>
>>44752672
What is so wrong with autism?
>>44752485
Yes, see this is the problem. I know that i am right but since i have a vagina i am wrong by default.
>>
>people tell me more women in the hobby is a good thing
>while this retard sperg girl posts in this thread
>>
>>44752779
You do understand there's multiple people talking to you? It's confusing, I know, but really just check it for yourself and see who is right - you or the other guy.
>>
>>44752223
So a few months back, I'm tanking a raid for my friends in WoW and we get to a boss called Oregorger. It's a pretty easy boss if you know what to do, but if you don't, it's pretty much a guaranteed wipe. The problem mechanic in question is this one - the boss uses a move called Acid Torrent every 15 or so seconds which is shot at a random ranged character and is intercepted by the first guy standing between Oregorger and the ranged - it deals the same damage dealt to that guy to EVERYONE behind him AND leaves a stacking debuff on that guy that makes them take a ton of extra damage if they're hit by Acid Torrent again. The proper way to deal with it is to have the off tank get hit by the first one, then move out of the way of the next one while the main tank moves to soak it with their own mitigation, and then the main tank moves out of the way while the off tank moves back into it - so you keep the tanks cycling out for fresh mitigation to ensure that the ranged behind them aren't getting rekt by massive damage and to make sure Acid Torrent doesn't get extra damage on any of the tanks because that's almost a guaranteed wipe.

So, my tanking buddy, who DOES know the fight, has to leave because his girlfriend wanted the D really, really bad right then and there and nobody else in the raid wanted to off-tank for me, so we have to pull in a random tank, which was definitely where we went wrong but that's not the goddamn point. Of course, the first thing I ask him is if he knows the Oregorger fight as a tank, which he responds to with "Yeah, of course, it's an ezpz fight", so we summon him in and begin the fight after a little bit of setup.

Of course, the random tank just stands right in front of Oregorger and gets murdered because he won't get out of the fucking way of Acid Torrent, which leads to a pretty quick wipe afterwards.

This bullshit is not even remotely uncommon and it's easily avoidable by explaining how the fight goes every time. Fuck you.
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>>44752801
>but since i have a vagina i am wrong by default.

Correct.
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>>44752688
>"You find the secret door. Tell us how."
I knew this is where you were leading, and it's fucking retarded, specifically because it DOESN'T incentivize people to roleplay, at all. Why should they tell you how? They already succeeded? Why not just move on with the game? I mean, unless the DM specifically hands you the notes about what the trap/door/whatever is and tells you to use that information to describe your success to the group, you're STILL operating on a lack of information, exactly the same as you were before. You only know you rolled well, you don't know what actions might have been required.

Why are you making excuses to allow for a lack of effort on your part? Why shouldn't the DM press you for information, specific to what and how you want to act? Again, your complaint is "I don't know what there is to find, so I can't accurately describe searching", but THAT'S NOT HOW SEARCHING WORKS. If you're placed into a new room, you have no idea where anything is, YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE HOW TO SEARCH IT. This involves thinking, making context choices, and asking relevant questions.

If you ask to roll Perception, the DM should always be asking what you're looking for. You're not just "searching everything", because that's just a lazy cop-out. You clearly think there's something to find, you should be able to detail where and what you THINK it is. Even if there's nothing there, that's not the point.

>"You succeeded." that gives them the freedom to explain without looking stupid.
They still look fucking stupid as they mumble "I uh...I find the door in the wall. Yeah. I push it and it opens." You've given them no reason to try, they already won.

>Further, given the player's lack of knowledge, I don't know if any description I give actively hurts my chances.
YES THIS IS THE FUCKING POINT. FAILURE IS PART OF TRYING SOMETHING.
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>>44752741
Repeatedly, yes. But a single punch delivered to render them unconscious, or to render them silent, generally isn't. Should it be? Perhaps. But it's generally accepted as something superheroes/brash cops/action heroes are allowed to do without crossing the moral line.


There's also the consideration of target: punching a bound opponent in the face is more acceptable than the stomach, for instance. Presumably because you can't claim the stomach blow was to render them unconscious.

It's not discussed or explored, but it's an underlying assumption. Dozens of good guys have done it. Heck, I feel like Superman's probably done it.
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>>44751881
Honest answer: because I have friends and I actually enjoy goofing around with them in a rough semblance of playing an RPG. I'd say I am enjoying it more than straight-up being forced to play as a character I am not.
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>>44752688
>>Basically, players don't invest themselves fully because they're risk-averse due to results they thought were unfair

You literally just told me that anything that is not you succeeding is "unfair". Therefore, the only tactic you develop is to fight the DM, because you feel that you not succeeding is actively unfair and should not be a part of the game.
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>>44752842
This is /tg/ not /v/, i don't see how this is relevant for anything i say
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>>44752801
This. This explains so much.
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>>44752902
So you don't enjoy RPGs at all, but you have no problem weaseling your way into groups of people who do, specifically so you can get mad at them for taking things "too seriously"?

I mean, you just ennumerated how you want to "play" your games, which is not really playing them at all. And that's fine. But why exactly would you involve yourself in other people's discussion about the hobby you just said you want no part of, specifically to insinuate they're doing something wrong, just because you don't like it?

You have friends? Good, stay with them. Don't waste other people's time.
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>>44752885
>asking the captive questions
>have methods to ensure that the captive is telling the truth
>strike captive to silence him because you do not like the answers you are getting
>heroes
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>>44752918
tl;dr: The assumption that people who are clearly engaged in a hobby automatically know what they're doing.is a recipe for failure.

You'd think this would be obvious, but, well, autism.
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>>44753031

That's pretty much all the cop shows these days, yeah.
I hate cop shows these days.
>>
Looks like what this thread is leading us to is that we should murder all women and all cops with badass parkour moves and automatic rifles.
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>>44753129
Who will we rape once the women are dead?

Sexbots aren't here yet.
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>>44753150
Traps.
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>>44753181
Are there enough to go around? I don't want no used goods.

Also they have to be cute.
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>>44752801
>>44752612
>>44752521
>>44752455
>>44752373
>>44752223
>>44752042
>>44751919
I cannot state how amusing i find this
>anon comes in here, whining about oppression and serious female issues in gaming
>turns out she is an autist who is pissed that she is not allowed to rules lawyer her dm
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>>44752995
>So you don't enjoy RPGs at all, but you have no problem weaseling your way into groups of people who do, specifically so you can get mad at them for taking things "too seriously"?
That's a lot of implications right there. I play with people I didn't play before because I enjoy playing with new people. If they take the game too seriously I just don't go back.

>But why exactly would you involve yourself in other people's discussion about the hobby you just said you want no part of, specifically to insinuate they're doing something wrong, just because you don't like it?
Because nearly everyone I've played with likes a lighthearted beer and pretzels game more than deep roleplaying. So I'm here to tell you to take the stick out of your ass and stop pretending you are the majority of the hobby.
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>>44752874
First off, let me be clear: I've been a foreverDM for roughly 5 years now, since my last consistent series of rotating DMs for 4 years, and was one for 8 years before that. When I use "I" in my posts, it's because 4chan has a post limit, and "I" is shorter than "they".

And look, you might have a fundamentally different experience with players than me. We're just arguing anecdotal evidence, but none of your post showed anything that connected for players in my experience.

The reason letting them know if they succeeded or not beforehand is because it means the description doesn't matter. They can describe whatever they want, knowing that it worked, BECAUSE THEY ROLLED WELL.

And I don't care if you, as a DM, want to press for information. That's your call, but it's also not the conversation. This started with "Why don't players TRY more in game?" The answer in my experience is "Because they've never been rewarded for it. They've only been frustrated or punished."

>>44752909
>You just told me any thing that is not you succeeding is unfair.
That's not what I said at all. Here's what I'm talking about.

"I search the room for the secret door, tapping the walls to find if there's a hollow spot. I roll Perception, 22."
"You don't find anything."
"I search the bookshelf for hidden levers, 25 Perception."
"You don't find any levers."
3 minutes later, I move on.
"Pity you never checked the floor, it's a pressure plate."
"What was the DC?"
"21."

THAT's the kind of unfair, shitty DMing I'm talking about. Either of the first two checks should have found the door. I rolled Perception while looking for it, and beat the DC. The DM should have said "While walking around the room tapping the walls, you step on a tile that depresses, opening the chamber." instead, I was penalized for my description. A scene like that tells me "Fuck it, from now on, I just say 'I search for a door.' because trying just fucks me over."
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>>44753226
>I play with people I didn't play before because I enjoy playing with new people. If they take the game too seriously I just don't go back.

So you waste people's time. Ok.
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>>44753226
>So I'm here to tell you to take the stick out of your ass and stop pretending you are the majority of the hobby.

Isn't having a stick up your ass and speaking for the hobby what this whole thread is for?
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>>44753035
Part of WoW is "all bosses have weird gimmicks, and you have to know the specific weird gimmicks to have a chance." So it makes sense that you'd go over the weird gimmicks to refresh everyone, even if they've heard it before. Sometimes that's the case in /tg/. But most of the time? The rules are always the same each time you play a game, and imperfect play won't get you killed. So if you want to refresh someone on a weird thing that almost never comes up, your analogy works. But the rest of the time, you're basically talking about explaining to someone how to tank or pull or heal.

If someone is sitting down to play a game, and hasn't indicated that they're new, then you don't fucking explain things to them unless they're things only your group does (house rules, for example), or they're clearly floundering. You do them the basic courtesy of assuming "hey, you've probably played this before, you have a clue." If they prove otherwise, fine, ask them if they'd like some help. But otherwise, just sit back and relax. Yes, even if they make mistakes. Forgetting that this creature is immune to mundane weapons and wasting a turn isn't the end of the world.
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>>44752874
>Failure is the point of trying something.

And in cases like searching a room, it's a boring, useless part. It's a waste of everyone's time at the table for me to describe multiple methods and fail, when I can simply say "I take 20", and be guaranteed a success.

That's the point. Your players will try as much as they feel they have to, or should. The reason so many don't try is that they have never, in their gaming careers, been given an incentive to do any more than roll the dice, take the result.

Should they succeed every roll? Of course not. But when a player describes their attack in a vivid, interesting way, and misses, and the asshole in the corner just says "I aim for his gut.", and hits, that tells them that effort doesn't beget rewards. Only the dice do. So there's no reason to use anything but the dice.
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>>44752801
look at the flipside, as long as you have boobs, you can always easily get away with being wrong
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>>44753247
>The reason letting them know if they succeeded or not beforehand is because it means the description doesn't matter. They can describe whatever they want, knowing that it worked, BECAUSE THEY ROLLED WELL.
And this is exactly the problem. You've just reduced the entire game down to multiple hours of no one ever engaging with anything, just rolling check after check until they roll high, and then maybe if they want to, making up a story about how awesome they are.

I think it's telling that you suggested Exalted, a game who's rules are literally "Tell me a story about how badass you are, and I'll tell you if you just win the game, or if you SUPER ULTRA WIN." Your concept of game doesn't involve a conversation, it's just there to fulfill player's fantasies of rolling crits and having greentext stories of how they were the best ever.

That's not what a game is. A game is about players making choices, taking risks, and experimenting with things they don't know the answer to. Yeah, you don't know if there's a pit trap in this hallway. You have no way of knowing. Would there be one? Could there be one? Who knows? It's up to you to decide whether you want to act like there isn't one, or act like there is and get creative with your method of investigation.

And maybe you're just slamming a 10-ft pole down on stone tile after stone tile, and by the end of the hallway nothing happened. That's how it goes because YOU DON'T KNOW when you choose what to do. Now you know. And now you can use that information to decide whether in the next hallway, you act like there isn't a pit trap, or there is.

>This started with "Why don't players TRY more in game?" The answer in my experience is "Because they've never been rewarded for it. They've only been frustrated or punished."
Getting frustrated when you don't succeed and getting punished are two very different things.
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>>44753255
Why would I waste their time? My lousy roleplaying doesn't affect how they play out their character's deep motivations and captivating personalities. I'm wasting my time, but that's something I chose.

>Isn't having a stick up your ass and speaking for the hobby what this whole thread is for?
I thought it was just speaking for the hobby. Should I apply the stick now, or is it too late for that?
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>>44753315
>and imperfect play won't get you killed.
>Forgetting that this creature is immune to mundane weapons and wasting a turn isn't the end of the world.
You're making a lot of assumptions about how the DM is running their game and what kind of game they're playing in general. If you're playing a game that tends towards rocket tag like AD&D or D&D 3E, yes, whiffing a turn due to player error CAN get you and your party killed.
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>>44753372
Ah, you're a troll. Or at the very least not arguing in good faith. That's fine. Enjoy your afternoon, you got me.
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>>44753395
Have you tried not playing games that punish mistakes with total party kills?
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>>44753326
>It's a waste of everyone's time at the table for me to describe multiple methods and fail, when I can simply say "I take 20", and be guaranteed a success.
>That's the point. Your players will try as much as they feel they have to, or should.

Ok, so taking 20 is no longer a thing. Congrats, now you have to actually try. If the fact that a DM is now expecting you to actually describe things to him to flesh out your actions makes you angry or uncomfortable because you've "never had to do it before", that's not exactly the DM's fault, is it? He's trying to get something out of you, but you're the one insisting that because there's never been an incentive to put effort in before, you will never do it.

>But when a player describes their attack in a vivid, interesting way, and misses, and the asshole in the corner just says "I aim for his gut.", and hits, that tells them that effort doesn't beget rewards.
I'm gonna tell you a story, and you won't believe it, but it's true.

I have a group right now that I've been DMing for, for 2 years or so. During this entire time, we've operated on three basic premises: One, the players will not see the results of a lot of their rolls for things like Perception and Knowledge. Two, when they ask to make a roll, I will almost always ask "What specifically are you looking for/trying to do". And three, almost everything that happens, even failed hits in combat, will be fluffed out with flavor text just because it's fun and creates a picture of what's happening.

And you know what? All of the players involved have gone off to DM their own games on the side, or brought those rules into other games they join, because they work and they add to the immersion and interaction of everyone involved. They feel rewarded for HAVING PUT IN THE EFFORT, not because they demand a +1 or 2 bonus just because they narrated how they swung a sword.

And maybe if you tried a little bit too, you'd find that playing the game is it's own reward.
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>>44749215
>someone mad that cute things exist
i bet you're real fun to be around
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>>44752885
>I feel like Superman's probably done it
Punch an unarmed, bound prisoner? No. Superman has a moral compass and so does Wonder Woman or so i thought. I'm ok with Punisher, Batman or even Spider-Man doing shit like this. But those guys are supposed to be those ideal heroes that can't do wrong. Torture is not ok for them.
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>>44752716
Obama has been the whitest black man in America ever since MJ died.

Clinton was blacker than him.
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>>44753150
We can take turns being the bottoms. It worked in the past.
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>>44753462
Plenty of times. I've also had player error nearly TPK us through a chain reaction on the final fight of a campaign on a system that doesn't instantly kill you for making a mistake simply because he did it at the worst possible time, so your argument can go fuck itself.
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>>44753716
Wondies always been a harsh woman.
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>>44753725
It might be because he is a mulatto.
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>>44753794
Harsh? Hell yeah. But this is some bullshit right there.
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>>44753562
>taking 20 is no longer a thing.
Congrats, you had to delete rules from the core rulebooks in order to force players to waste everyone's time while you jerk off to your 'oh so clever' puzzle, while no one is happy.

Because that's how it goes.

And again, the point isn't "I've never had to do this before." It's all too commonly "I tried, I was told I was doing it wrong. Another guy half-assed it and succeeded. I will just half-ass it."

I totally believe your story. Congrats. You got lucky. Like I got lucky playing with mostly people who WANT to describe their actions.

I DON'T HAVE THE "MY PLAYERS DON'T EXPLAIN THINGS" PROBLEM. I'm pointing out one of the reason other DMs might: because too often, beginning DMs shit on players' efforts, teaching players learned helplessness.

Other reasons:
-That's not how the player has fun with the game, and your demands that they do X actively make them uncomfortable.
-Your group has set time limits on how long they're going to play, so they're minimizing time spent in order to get in more game.
-At any given time, a specific player might be dealing with an emotional issue that is distracting them from the game.


There's a bunch of reasons for this behavior. I've merely been explaining that, in some cases, it might be that players have never had a reason to do so. And in my personal philosophy and 17 years of DMing experience, offering minor rewards for extra effort gets you much more enthusiastic effort than making it a baseline demand.

Your experience may vary.
>>
Addressing the topic with the lady not liking having things explained to her:

When I started gaming, I wish people would explain things to me. Like, they'd take one look at me and go, "I can tell you're ignorant. Here, lemme educate you."

Now that I'm far wiser, I would indeed be annoyed if people kept doing that.
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>>44753776
You're going to need to explain how one action caused a chain reaction that nearly killed off everyone without anyone being able to take some action to stop it.
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>>44753930
They chose not to heal at the worst possible time.
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>>44753855
Thank you! I've been playing for years, and I'm perfectly capable of reading a rulebook by now. But I still get people who assume I need basic things explained to me without me needing to fuck up. If it's not because I'm a woman, then it's still frustrating and I wish it'd stop.
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>>44753855
I've been playing for 20+ years and I still don't mind so I really don't know what to tell you.
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>>44753716
Superman frequently resorts to violence or the threat thereof to get confessions out of criminals. He'll slap around people he's holding (which, given his strength, makes them effectively bound and unarmed)

However, my brief research hasn't shown him doing it since the Golden Age, and his characterization has definitely grown since then, so you may be right.

However, you're wrong in a couple important qualities: first, "having a moral compass" does not preclude knocking someone out at the end of the interrogation, which is, again, the implied action in the comic. Every hero you just listed has a moral compass, they just all point in varying directions.

Secondly, Wonder Woman is actually fairly aggressive, and comes from a martial society. Torture IS something she could condone, if there was a need for it. There's generally no reason, given her lasso, but she could conceivably condone it.

Lastly, again, there's a long-standing waiver on the "knock-out punch" as not being a 'bad thing', but rather the most efficient means for rendering a villain unable to fight back while you deliver him to the authorities. It's the high-action version of handcuffs.
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>>44752612
>this is what libtards actually believe
so is just plain prejudice ok because its typically what black people do to white people? Also I'm hispanic. If i say i hate black people, is that statement completely ok? by your standards mexicans don't have any power to complete your silly definition of Racism.
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>>44755838

>taking hours-old bait

No, that's not what "libtards" actually believe, that's what a handful of crazy leftists believe and internet trolls use to bait the hook.
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>>44755838
>this is what libtards actually believe
Fuck you, breh. Liberals aren't a unified group. I think that's bullshit, for example.

I also hate Hillary.
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>>44749133
Not OP, but I think they're referring to the idea that some people are pretenders to traditional gaming an not the idea that everyone has to be on a subsistence diet of cheeto dust and internet rage in order to be qualified to speak on traditional games.
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>>44752304
>lolicon

yes anon, you are, because the first two are not frowned upon by wider society unlike that third one which is a BIG red flag for 'this guy is a massive pervert and you should not talk to him.'
you are right some people are "degenerates" but like normal people they keep it to themselves. it really really is not normal to talk openly to people (not just "normies" but people in your LGS (they probably talk about you behind your back btw and write 'that guy' stories here about you)) about liking to look at porn of cartoon girls.
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>>44755838
Prejudice isn't OK, but there's a difference between people being assholes and people setting up the system to institutionalize their assholishness.
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>>44749074
Gamers like OP's pic, fucking SJW feminist sack of shit.
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>>44756626
Alternatively, the worst part of our industry are shitbags who think using "SJW" and "feminist" as buzzwords makes them sound smart.
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>>44751032
>implying
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