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MtG Modern General
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Which deck in the format is the easiest or most brain dead to pilot?
Which deck requires the most skill to pilot in your opinion?
Hard mode - Both decks are good
>>
R/g tron is easiest to pilot (wish I had known that before I built it). Although affinity is also pretteh brain dead

And probably amulet bloom, only because I have never played it. Although lantern control can be hard to do right.

The problem with this question is that modern is a fairly easy format to pilot in general. You don't have the legacy card pool and interactivity, and because these are tier 1 and 2 decks, they are already optimized and stripped of spare parts. The decks that work best tend to be simple in their nature.
>>
>>44746594
There's already one other thread. Look for Karn in the catalog
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>>44746594
Easiest: Probably Burn. Linear, only 1 tough rules interaction (using skullcrack to bypass protection) and very redundant/consistent.

Hardest: Esper Control. Modern is very diverse and has much more powerful threats than answers, so navigating any matchup with Esper requires you to know your deck and your opponents deck inside out. You always have to play to your outs and get the most from each spell you cast. Although you have many favorable match ups, none of them are really "byes" in the sense you would probably win even if you misplayed heavily.
>>
>>44746999
>Burn is brain dead
I want this meme to die. I was speaking to my LGS owner yesterday and we both agreed that Burn is easy to play but hard to master. Games often come down to 2-4 points of damage that an experienced burn player would have been able to get in.
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>>44747020
I didn't say it was brain dead, just easier than the other decks in the format.

Which deck do you think is the easiest? Tron?
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>>44746594

Braindead - Tron
Hardest - Grixis Delver

RG Tron is literally just the same strategy over and over again, and it isn't just that, it also doesn't care about what the opponent does, unlike say infect which is also a very linear gameplan but is vulnerable due to interaction. RG Tron is for people who want to win but dont want to think

Meanwhile, Delver has multiple lines of play, has to make sure the sequencing of cantrips is correct, has to know when to delve in angler or tasigur, when to properly drop and protect a Young Pyromancer as well. Deck is good, but only if the player is good.
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>>44747052
Yeah probably Tron. Besides a few small lines of play like which fatty to drop first or digging for pieces the deck is laughably easy and once you've got it down there's not much room for improvement.
>>
>>44746676
>affinity is also pretteh brain dead
Affinity is actually hard to play well and is probably one of the hardest decks to master in modern.
>>
>>44747084
I could get behind that then. Tron has a few more tricks up its sleeve than Burn, but once you know them it's easier to play game-to-game because sequencing isn't as important.

Also, when you're playing Burn and your opponent stabilizes you switch from being the aggro to being the control. That's tough for some people.
>>
>>44747120
This meme is getting old.
>Cranial thing, swing, animate lands for +1 damage.
>>
>>44746594
>easiest
Probably Tron

>hardest
Probably Lantern Control
>>
>>44747153
go pick up affinity and win a local tourny right now if it's so braindead.

>Cranial thing, swing, animate lands for +1 damage.
Yes, sometimes it is that easy if your opponent does fucking nothing.
>>
>>44747181
I don't have 800 to spare on something that'd get boring after 5 games.
>there sure are lots of decision trees with muh ravager and galvanic blast
>>
>going to watch hateful eight
>dude asks if he can borrow my lantern control deck since I'm not attending the modern tournament
>claims to have practiced with the deck online so he can pilot it
>get back from movie
>tournament just finished, he went 1-0-3
>>
>>44747181

>go pick up affinity and win a local tourny right now if it's so braindead.

My friend who has never built a deck in his life and only started playing MTG in less than a year built Affinity and still won a local tourney. The deck really is not that difficult to figure out as you think it is, the truly most difficult part of playing the deck is the mulligan. The dumbest mistake my friend ever made was saccing a bunch of stuff to ravager then dropping the tokens on his Etched Champion but not realising that he sacced too many artifacts and turned off Metalcraft. And this was in a format where people were packing hate like Creeping Corrosion, Hurkyl's Recall, Drown in Sorrow, Fracturing Gust, Stony Silence. He doesn't even know how to sideboard properly either.
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>>44747863
>Magic consists of pure skill, luck and match-ups don't take any part in the game
>>
>>44748336
He got 3 draws, moron.

That has to do with how long the games took, aka his skill at piloting the deck quickly enough to finish in time.
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>>44748111
>>44747181
>>44747153
The thing is that affinity is easy to play reasonably well, but getting the absolute best line of play requires a lot of thought. That is usually unnecessary though.
>>
All these people thinking tron is an easy deck to play. Your not wrong.
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>>44748460
>Easy to play, hard to master
I wish THIS meme would die already
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>>44748385
Usually it's the locked opponent who insists on spending a minute per turn fondling his only two cards that are known to both players before passing a turn.
>g1 lost to fast aggro
>shuffle and side for 10 minutes
>g2 dont finish in time because opponent doesnt realize to concede/wants to go to time for win
I see this every week vs the guy playing Lantern.
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>>44748704
Yes, I own the deck so I know the type. I just keep on telling them to play faster. Play faster. I tell them to play faster from the first game. I probably say it a dozen times per game. I also skip shuffling their decks, it takes too much time.

Also, he will have 7 cards in hand, not two.
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>>44748661

People always bitch about Affinity being easy when they goldfish it, but then never actually see it in action. Like yeah, the lines are simple when nothings happening, but when disruption and your opponents actions are thrown in, pure goldfish racing doesn't win.

The "easy to play, hard to master" aspect comes from pilots who can win even when the deck is disrupted, and doesnt just ragescoop when Ancient Grudge and Stony Silence come in.

Its like how people bitch about Twin being easy, and legitimately believe T3 end Exarch into T4 Splinter is a realistic play.
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>>44748704
So you just tell people to play quicker.

Then again, I have the worst of luck about getting paired with people who plays the durdliest of decks in tournaments. The worst was a GP where I thought for sure that I could get a 2-1 in a match with my opponent down to 3 life and an empty board with a few minutes left on the clock, and he untaps, draws, and plays Resolute Archangel and still doesn't manage to win.

I wanted to strangle the son of a bitch right on the spot.
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>>44746594
Friendly reminder that Modern is the premier format for investors, not players, and that Leonin Arbiter is spiking RIGHT NOW

Don't forget to pick up your copies at star city games for 10 dollars a piece!
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>>44751071
Why the fuck is it spiking now?

It doesn't see play in anything.
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>>44751092
Because any card under 5 dollars that is remotely playable in any regard should not stay under 5 dollars, ever!

Welcome to Legacy 2.0!
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>>44751296
Well, I'm glad my project of getting a playset of every remotely playable card in modern is almost completed.

The amount of buyouts have been insane lately. Most of the cards I gather spike like crazy within a few months for no apparent reason.

Shit like Archive Trap is $6 for no apparent reason.

I never really prioritized leonin arbiter since I never fucking used any, but I have 3/4 at least.
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>>44751092

>What deck even runs it?
>Nickname is cat
>Cat and bird
>Cat and bird hate bears.

Think anon
>>
>>44751456
hatebears is tier 3 at best in modern.
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>>44751521
>tier 3
Seriously /tg/, you have to stop throwing the word tier around so much. In Magic terms tier refers to the popularity of a deck, not necessarily its power. The two often go hand in hand, but that is not always the case.

Tier 1 decks are simply the most popular decks. The ones you must be prepared to face and be able to beat to stand a chance in the format.

Tier 2 are the decks that see play but have yet to attain the popularity of a tier 1 deck. There might be a few of these decks around in larger tournaments but you are not guaranteed to face one.

Tier 3 would be decks that only see fringe play.
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>>44753220
No, tiers are based on how often they appear in tournament results.

This has a lot to do with how many people play them, but a lot of people playing a bad deck won't make it tier 1, as it won't end up winning the tournaments and that's all that matters.
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playing Soul sisters. stat me
4x
>Soul warden
>Soul's attendant
>Serra acendant
>Ajani's pridemate
>Path to exile
>Ranger of Eos
>Martyr of sands
>Spectral Procession
>Squadron hawk
>honor of the pure
2x
>Windbrisk heights
>ghost quarter
>>
>>44751092
It's not. SCG still has it listed at $3, and ChannelFireball has it in stock at $3.30.
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>>44746594
>brain dead
Tron
>hardest
Delver
>>
>>44753220

No, Tier 1 decks don't autolose to anything and beat most other decks. Tier 2 decks autolose to some things but are otherwise excellent. Tier 3 decks aren't particularly great but can hold their own against most things to which they don't autolose. Tier 4 decks are Cheerios, Spanish Inquisition, etc.
>>
>>44746594
Burn and Affinity are the kind of deck that looks easy to play when done by an expert but you hand it to an amateur and they fuck up royally.
RGTron and Jund are the opposite. They look like they have many options and knowing the right path is an art, but with experience you realize most of the time any answer is the right answer.
Bloom and Lantern are fuckup nation, even if you're really good and have lots of experience you still missplay a lot because in these decks options and play optimization does matter.
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>>44751296
Legacy is pretty much $2 cards, FoW and lands. If you replace the duals with shocks most decks that have both a Legacy and Modern version are cheaper in Legacy.
>>
>>44759952
Tron is not hard to play at all
>>
>>44746594
I bought a playset of sword of the meek and thopter foundry, how hard did I fuck up?
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>>44746594
>Easiest deck to play = Tron

You just try to make Tron and then windmill slam X big card

>Hardest deck would probably be like Twin or Bloom

Twin actually has to interact with it's opponent which automatically makes it more difficult then half of modern decks. Bloom is just weird to pilot and you have to think about your moves a bit more.
>>
>>44760428
A lot, because it's still shite even if it gets unbanned.
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>>44755477
splash black for lingering souls and zealous persecution. Also puts you in a good spot if Sword of the Meek is unbanned.
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>>44748661
not everything is a meme my fellow redditor. I think basketball is easy to play, but you won't see me in the nba anytime soon.
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>>44746594
>easiest
I wouldnt say any deck is particularly easy. RG Trons game 1 is probably the easiest though.
>hardest
Obviously something unforgiving and punishing to someone shit at the game, like Delver, storm or Lantern Control
However thats not really how it works. Once you figure it out, roughly, those decks arent that hard. I would say the hardest decks would be modern control decks as they require much better sideboarding, more thoughtful Mulligans, etc. While Tokens is fucking easy to understand, its very hard to play and actually win with. Same with Esper control, grindy Twin variants, etc.
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>>44755477
Ditch list and play BW Tokens, its a way more competitive deck
>>
>>44760867
>Tokens is fucking easy to understand, its very hard to play and actually win with.

That's because it's not a good deck, not because it's complicated(it isn't).
>>
>>44759803

sometimes I wonder what are T3 decks that are quite fun to play. Tokens, hatebears? What else?
>>
>>44761006
Eh, I wouldn't say it is bad, you just have easy to exploit weaknesses which you dont see much in modern, like no draw power or deck manipulation. You have to take that into account when youre playing by keeping cards in hand, playing carefully and efficiently
This is the sort of stuff I mean. Its actually difficult to play, to drag out games so that your top decks just own theirs.
>>
Guys I have this strange urge to build and play Esper Control. Should I fight it?
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>>44746594
If you Thoughtseize a twin player, and if he has a combo piece and a Serum Visions (no snapcaster mage), would you take the combo piece or the cantrip?
Im trying to learn how to play against Twin.
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>>44761956

>playing thoughtseize anywhere other than b/g/x decks
>not already completely obliterate twin with so much value
>>
1x Arid Mesa
1x Assemble the Legion
2x Celestial Colonnade
1x Cryptic Command
4x Deceiver Exarch
1x Desolate Lighthouse
2x Dispel
4x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Mountain
4x Path to Exile
2x Pestermite
1x Plains
4x Remand
1x Sacred Foundry
3x Scalding Tarn
4x Serum Visions
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Spell Snare *F*
4x Splinter Twin
3x Steam Vents
2x Sulfur Falls
1x Vendilion Clique

Running this right now. It's soooo fun. American for life.
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>>44762389
I assume this would be turn 1 or something.
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>>44761956
I almost never take splinter twin, it's just adead card that costs 4 mana until they have an unbeatable combo set up. If you're late game and top decking then I'd more seriously consider the combo piece, depending on the game state.
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Post underrated cards.
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>>44759803
You're talking out of your ass. No other place on the internet agrees with your definition.
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>>44763788
He's pretty much right though, it has to do with win percentages and popularity of the deck to a degree.
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>>44763548
idk man, people were calling for a ban when glitterstorm was flavour of the month.
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>>44761956

Turn 1- Visions
Turn 4- Twin if they have exarch

Depends on the setting
>>
>>44759803
T1 is the metagame, T2 are silver bullet decks and T3 is unrpoven stuff. Easy as that.
>>
>>44764287
That is exactly how I look at it. This should be the standard. The only "constant" when people talk about tiers is that Tier 1 is "the best" while Tier 2 and higher can be anything.
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>>44763973
What did glittering wish do in that deck? Most of the lists I've seen have moved away from it.
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Played in my first competitive Modern tourney tonight.
Went 3-1 with a $27 dollar payout. I could really get used to this.
First and Last match were Tron mirror, and I had fun!
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>>44747120
I play the deck. It isn't. It's all combat math
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>>44763873
>win percentages
Win percentage is important in that it gets people interested in the deck, thus giving it popularity. But a popular deck that puts up expected results is still gonna be considered Tier 1 while a deck that is only played by a handful of people but still manages to win a few tournaments now and then is gonna be considered Tier 2 simply because it isn't as popular, not because of its lacking win percentage - indeed, the latter deck probably has a much higher win percentage in that scenario than the former.
>>
>easiest
Bogles, I do play it though.

>hardest
U-Tron, not getting run over by all Aggro decks is tough but satisfying.
>>
Any tips from expert burn players. I'm
getting really good at playing the deck, top 8ed at two FNM tournaments in a row. I know most lines of play like dropping Guide and Nacatl first for explosive openings that demand answers from my opponent, bolting on end step against blue decks and slapping down Eidolon as early as possible. But are there any other tips and tricks to improve my game? I just really want to get even better.
>>
>>44765194

Remember that skullcrack prevents lifegain. It can make or break games with decks that have lifegain and pro-red as a buffer, like decks with kitchen finks and burrenton forge tender. Sometimes players get too complacent when they get finks on board that they forget about skullcrack.

I once fought an elf deck with burrenton forge tender game 2. He was down to 12 and had burrenton forge tender in play while I had Grim Lavamancer. At end of his turn, I cast skullcrack, reducing him to 9, I cast bolt, reducing him to 6 which he accepts, then I cast Boros Charm where he tried to sac the BFT but damage cannot be prevented due to skull crack reducing him to two. On my turn I grim lavamancer for the kill. If he didn't panic at boros charm and forgot about skullcrack, he could've prevented the 2 damage from grim lavamancer and could've won next turn if I wasn't able to topdeck a burn spell or a goblin guide
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>>44765194
If you know for a fact they have a bolt, don't swing with your guide. Usually only applicable turn 2 during the mirror match when their land is untapped.
You can save fetches for your searing blaze. Sometimes I'll even hold onto a land in hand instead of playing it in case I draw a blaze. This actually fucked me over in one case, as I had a land (non-fetch) in hand, 2 lands on the field and 2 blazes vs living end (at minimal life). Was saving the land, hoping I could get a landfall trigger when he casts living end, but the top draw was another land, leaving me with 2 lands and 2 blazes in hand with 2 lands on the field. Boy was I salty for the day, I was literally going to buy 4x searing blood I was so salty.
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>>44766254
Tl;dr sub out your blazes when the time is right.
Also get a thunderous wrath and head to a grand prix, luck your way to top8
>>
For this shitty Restore Balance Super friends I planned on including 2 Architect Jace, 1 Kiora the Crashing Wave, 1 Garruk Relentless, 1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, 2 Ajani Vengeant, 1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas or another walker here or maybe just use it as a flex spot

>>44763320
Try it with the U Zendikon enchantment and polymorph
>>
What are some good cards that work with red spells or planeswalkers doing damage? Is the phoenix the only one?
>>
>>44766380
What are your thoughts on the 'walker tutor?
>>44766450
I don't really know what you mean... Quest for Pure Flame is neat though, and mini Chandra works with red spells.
>>
>>44766498
If you mean in this deck, probably not, there aren't a lot of flex spots after those walkers. Could maybe be addable after a bit of tweaking but the next thing that would go would be more counterspells and more removal. I also want a 1 or 2 of Ith, High Arcanist in because he's great against decks with big creatures
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>>44766498
>I don't really know what you mean
>>
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So today I learned how to flip a coin to always get the answer I want. I'm gonna post a deck list and you guys tell me how to refine it. I want to disguise it as best I can so it seems like a deck that is a little janky, but that if I get lucky I win with. I'm thinking 4 offs of this but how do I abuse them?
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>>44766542
run mono red and include a Koth so you can hit for 15 damage with just mountains
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>>44766564
>4/4 mountains
>15 damage
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>>44766542
You could make a burn shell (I'd say mono red but you need green or white vs leyline) but mono-red would be much cheaper and would win all the same (except g2 if they sb in leylines and get them)
basically burn with manaclash + gambit I kinda love it already.
I don't know of other flip cards that would be fast enough. Maybe a single Thumb so you can whiff a flip here and there.
>>
>>44766577
i figured he meant pay 3, hit for 6, untap, hit for 9

>>44766542
also run krarks thumb and splash a little blue for Ral Zarek and take a ton of turns.
>>
>>44766564
wait how?
>>44766517
mini chandra all the way then, it is her pheonix after all
>>44766510
I just really like the idea of planeswalkers and a hefty boardwiper like that, sounds awesome. Maybe have Gemstone Mines so you can increase the land part of the ability. What about a cascade card to set it off? (assuming no cmc 2 or less cards)
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>>44766632
You don't want any lands so gemstone wouldn't be that great and you can't fetch for it so it's breddy useless.
Thinking about switching in a Chandra the Firebrand and possible a narset transcendent
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>>44766669
I mean that it can sacrifice itself when depleted, what lands do you run and how do you get no lands? Sounds kinda sweet.
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>>44764370
Went and got Flesh // Blood if they couldn't attack, or got the one of Ascendancy in the sideboard as Ascendancies 4-7 or to dodge extractions.
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>>44766731
Sacrifice the lands to a suspended greater gargadon
I run 2 Flooded Strand, 1 of each basic, 1 mistveil plains, 1 steam vents, 4 terramorphic expanse. You run alara borderposts so that you have mana but no lands
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>>44766597
Why run ral? That seems really slow when I could fill my hand with burn to t3 fiery and then finish them off?

Should I run odds for the ability to copy or counter super easily? I'm torn between running a U/R or a mono R.
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Should I build WB Tokens? I have all the cards to play the pre-Bitterblossom, pre-Sorin version, but I kinda want to build a version like Cho played at the Open. I think playing 4 Ghost Quarters and 3 Flagstones is a smart way to beat Tron and Amulet.

I would need to buy:
4 Bitterblossom
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Fetid Heath

Thankfully I already have Marshes and Auriok Champion.
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>>44766781
No
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>>44766785
Why not?
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>>44766759
Reverberate does this while being purely red, although it can't counter in a pinch, which is dank but I can't see it being too useful (other than countering a big lifegain spell) but you could have 4 skullcrack in the sb to do that. then again, time stitchin mbc, and a reverberate with a counter option isn't bad in the slightest.
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>>44746594
Easiest Boggles hands down
Hardest Esper Control because it's wonky
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>>44766754
Holy fuck thats cool. Alright I'm sold.
Didn't realize borderpost was basic land only, makes more sense now. That's cool as fuck.
Which is your favorite pw?
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>>44766908
>>44766542
I don't wanna put too much money into it because I'm cheap as fug but does this look okay? Keep some of the thumbs to make it look like I'm not blatantly winning on pure luck?
>>
>>44766938
>esper control being the hardest
>not esper battle of wits
try shuffling 275 cards and tell me that shit isn't difficult. Gotta be a god-tier pilot to pull it off without spilling your cards all over the table
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>>44766971
The owl is in there because gambit needs targets and if I'm fighting control or something that won't play their own creatures then I need targets. Monastery would go off super hard if I gambit with it out. Could maybe be lethal if I pray hard enough.
>>
>>44766971
If you want a cheap as fuck deck;

4 tswift
4 spark elemental
4 lavaspike
4 bolt
4 rift bolt
X shard volley
4 mana clash
4 gambit
X searing blaze/blood
X thumb (I'd do 1 since legendary but it depends on how credible you want to appear, the more thumbs the more whiffs you can make)
20 mountains (or 19 if you're cray)
>>
>>44766992
in that case, for the remaining slots add either raging goblin, the goblin that explodes (fanatic?) or ash zealot.
Worst case have these shitty 1cmc guys in the sideboard as decks either have creatures out vs burn, or they run 0 creatures
>>
>>44766971
>>44766992
>Krark's Thumb out
>Chain Fiery Gambits into several huge Mana Clashes
>Kill opponent with Mana Clash and 1 life left over

POETRY
O
E
T
R
Y
>>
>>44767028
Might be good to try that list out too. So many options.

511. Flipping a Coin

511.1. To flip a coin for an object that cares whether a player wins or loses the flip, the affected player flips the coin and calls "heads" or "tails." If the call matches the result, that player wins the flip. Otherwise, the player loses the flip. Only the player who flips the coin wins or loses the flip; no other players are involved.

511.2. To flip a coin for an object that cares whether the coin comes up heads or tails, each affected player flips a coin without making a call. No player wins or loses this kind of flip.

511.3. If the coin that's being flipped doesn't have an obvious "heads" or "tails," designate one side to be "heads," and the other side to be "tails." Other methods of randomization may be substituted for flipping a coin as long as there are two possible outcomes of equal likelihood and all players agree to the substitution. For example, the player may roll an even-sided die and call "odds" or "evens," or roll an even-sided die and designate that "odds" means "heads" and "evens" means "tails."

I also don't see anything here that says other people can force me to not use coins, or that there's any way to prove or disprove that I'm lucky/unlucky. Is there a rule for 'Violating the spirit' of the game?
>>
>>44767096
also maybe norin in the sideboard, he's a reliable 1cmc target that won't let you down!
I might be missing a good cheap burn or 2 but I think the above list is as cheap as it gets. Could get away with a few burst lightning or the like.
I wouldn't worry too much about having a target though, burn usually mainboards 2-4 blazes, if it's a dead card game 1 it's all good.
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>>44766542
This is objectively cheating.
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>>44767164
Anon, I'm just lucky and my opponent accusing me of cheating is un-sportsmanly conduct.
>>
>>44767190
If the judge forces you to roll a dice
>rules lawyer him by stating all players must agree to it.
If he decides to flip the coin for you
>JUUUUUDGE!!
maybe add 4 burst lightning and 4 shock, and state that this is you're a beginner
or if he calls a judge just whiff the manaclash after 3 damage and proceed with your burn plan.
>>
>>44767283
probably a good idea to not win every single game as well. that'd get fishy fast.
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>>44767355
Well you only have 8 coin flip cards in your burn deck so it's not like it would be too suspicious; however, a mana clash dealing 20 on turn 1 might raise a few brows
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>>44767446
Wait nvm manaclash deals damage on their tails. all bout that gambit tho
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>>44747120
>arcbound_ravager_sat_at_a_computer.jpg
>>
>>44767283
His opponent would be the one to call the judge, and the judge would be the one to flip the coin for him.
>>
off topic but anybody know a good place to get counterfeit cards?
>>
>>44759803
So tron isn't tier 1 cause it auto-loses to infect?
>>
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>>44767514
the idea with the mana clash is that I take damage too, but that the times I take damage are there to offset them flipping heads and only really pushes the burn I already have to lethal at a minimal cost of my own life.

>>44767480
By the RAW the judges aren't supposed to flip the coin themselves but I can see them doing that if I get the 12.5% gambit too often. Even the 25% gambit is a risky move. I think it would be worth running a deck that could function even if the judges ruled that my luck was too sick and they had to get their grubby luckless mitts all over it.
>>
>>44767590
You will just be asked to use a dice instead of a coin man.
>>
>>44767603
The rules also state that all players must agree to dice. Of course a judge could give you a big "fuck you" but if they're by the book, dice only and you, the player, must flip
>>
>>44767574
It doesn't if you run 3 Spellskites, 2 Ghost Quarters and 3-4 Pyroclasms in main and Chalice of the Void in side.
>>
What's the point of playing midrange when I can just play Tron?
Is there any reason?
>>
>>44767716
Better game vs aggro and solitaire combo like Ad Nauseam.
>>
>>44767716
There is no point. That's the problem
>>
>put a playset of Thoughtseizes, Abrupt Decays and Verdant Catacombs in the cart
>over 200 dollars for 12 cards
My common sense never slammed the brakes that hard in my LIFE
>>
>>44767723
>ad naus
>solitaire
I see what you're saying but nauseam is more like a twin combo, insta wins after the counter war. True solitaire belongs to the realms of Jeskai Accendancy and Extra Turns, where the other guy watches you jerk off for 5 whole minutes
>>
>>44767771
It's the catacombs. Do you run forests, or just swamps and black shocklands?
If so go for bloodstained mires
>>
>>44767802
I do run forests, but to be honest I'm still tweaking the mana base. I don't actually know if I need fetches at all
>>
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>>44767590
I got things backwards. You guys can see what I meant.

>>44767603
If it's a d6 that's not too hard to cheat a roll on, especially if its evens/odds or high/low. A d20 would fuck my shit up but even then If I built a fair deck then it'd be an uphill battle.
>>
>>44766985
I'm pretty sure your opponent has to be able to shuffle it too.
>>
>>44767625
Gonna need to learn my dice tricks too then. Long as it's not a d20 I could manage I guess.

>>44767836
Pretty sure that's not the case as an opponent could just claim to be unable to shuffle?
>>
>>44767802
May I ask what you're building?
If you can manage a mono-black you'll save tons of money, like shittons.
Abrupt can be replaced with other kill spells, I think the only things it has over a 'terror' type spell is being able to kill bitterblossom (out of meta) and cranial plating (this is the main reason), or maybe a spreadingsea/bloodmoon, or a RiP if you are graveyard reliant. Those are literally the only things tho iirc
>>
>>44767836
No. You alone must be able to sufficiently shuffle your deck in three minutes or less. This is impossible with Battle of Wits as there will always be at least a portion of the deck that is not sufficiently randomized.
>>
>>44767806
>>44767866
fug wrong reply

>>44767836
It's a recent card so I don't see why it would be illegal. I would love to bring in a poker card shufflebot tho. Until then, I'll stick with online battle of wits.
>>
>>44767881
>not being able to sufficiently shuffle in 3 minutes
>2016
C'mon man. It's a battle of wits AND dexterity... if you run fetches, endurance as well.
>>
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How well do you guys think Sifter of Skulls and Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim will perform in Aristocrats? Sifter pumps out tokens, while Ayli pumps life, adds removal, and muh Deathtuch.

>Sac Hangarback with Ayli, get +X life from sac
>Cutthroat pops for +1 -1 life
>Get X Thopters + 1 Scion
>Pump Husk with tokens
>Cutthroat pops for +X -X
>etc etc
>>
>>44767866
BG tempo Eldrazi
The G splash is pretty much for Ancient Stirrings which I feel is amazing for the deck.
If I went mono B I would probably replace it with card draw though it would not be as good.
I'm looking at Llanowar Wastes right now.
>>
>>44767918
duder this isn't standard general!
But my buddy runs UB aristos and I gotta show him that Sifter guy, holy man what a dank card
Ayli is OP, interesting as a sac outlet in 'crats but it does cost mana, meaning you can't always go for the "finishing blow" with cutthroat. She is fucking solid though, and a Sifter/Ayli combo would give you the mana to do that. If you're white/black, regardless of your deck, imho she's a 4 of. 3 toughness deathtouch for 2 mana? 2 power as well? KICKASS EFFECT(S)? Oh Pee
>>
>>44767957

I'm running W/B/G.

And I know this isn't the standard one, but there really wasn't anywhere else to go.

Wondering if I could throw the new Nissa in there too. Adds counters to Hangar and adds more fodder with the 0/1 Plant tokens. She just seems kind of underwhelming i guess?
>>
>>44767928
Sicknasty I like the sounds. Stirring is cool. llanowar is great Eldrazi love colorless, it gives <> mana, and it is relatively painless.
Maybe a single urborg for mana fixing.
Expidition maps are great alternative/addition to stirring, it fits the curve and can get you some cool plays. Played my delver vs a black eldrazi, the guy expiditioned into a cavern of souls naming eldrazi... Boy was I spooked. I could have countered the map too, but I was like "nah, I'll save it for karn"
There was no karn, only tentacled oblivion.
>>
>>44767975
She's like a mini elspeth kinda. Idk I really like her, she seems fair I guess, but cheap for what she does, and if they kill her, consider it lifegain.
I love her because I'm a big fan of Hardened Scales deck
Can't wait to see jacey
>>
>>44767928
also they might make some dank devoid cards for stirring, and also also I hope the new set has dank lands for decks of your kind. Idk, like "reveal an eldrazi, and any color" kinda stuff. Pls wizards.
>>
SOMEONE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD POST THEIR DANK-ASS DELVER LISTS

>HARDMODE: NO GRIXIS
>>
>>44768053
4 Delver
4 Snapcaster
4 Pyromancer
4 Knuckleblade
>>
>>44767991
The problem with Map is that it's too slow in a deck where you're looking to tap put every turn.
Stirrings is just irreplaceable, I'll try Llanowar Wastes and see what happens
>>
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>>44768062
i mean I asked for it.
would rather mantis than knuclehead, although he does trigger ferocious. Slam em with goyfs and knuckles, might be cool.
I should have phrased the request better, looking for UR lists
>>
>>44768174
4 Delver
4 Snapcaster
4 Pyromancer
4 Mutavault
>>
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>>44768181
>4 Delver
>4 Snapcaster
>4 Pyromancer
>4 Mutavault

4 Delver
4 Snapcaster
4 Pyromancer
4 Mantis Rider

4 Delver
4 Snapcaster
4 Pyromancer
4 Swiftspear

4 Delver
4 Snapcaster
4 Pyromancer
4 Lavamancer

4 Delver
4 Snapcaster
4 Pyromancer
4 Abbot

FUCK YOU TG AHHHHHH
>>
>>44747020
It ain't gonna die if it's true. Of course if you are skilled you can cram out those few extra points of damage. The reason people say that burn is brain dead however is that playing it in complete nobrain mode is still pretty efficient. Sure you don't get those extra 4 damage or whatever. But the chance of you losing because of that is smaller than the chance of you losing because you accidentally draw 3 lands in a row.
>>
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>Alan Rickman
>Esteemed actor, great villain in Die Hard
>Also plays a wizard named Snape on the side in a film about witchcraft/wizardry.
>WIZARDs of the Coast owns this game called Magic: The Gathering
>Magic: The Gathering has numerous sets of cards, one of which is Innistrad a plane with gothic horror featuring witches and wizards.
>Innistrad has a card named SNAPcaster Mage which is a Human WIZARD
>SNAPcaster
>Professor SNAPe
>Modern ban in a few days
>Actor who plays Professor SNAPe dies out of nowhere before modern ban
>Snapcaster Mage ban confirmed?
>>
>>44768651
Ban Mox Opal because it basically IS an actual Mox.
>>
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>>44746594
>Which deck in the format is the easiest or most brain dead to pilot?
All decks have their nuances to play effectively so I can't say any one deck is truly braindead to play. I can see more linear decks making a lot of the same moves and being a bit easier to learn how to pilot but I wouldn't say its EZ mode.

>Which deck requires the most skill to pilot in your opinion?
Any form of control decks. Playing control requires you to know your opponent's deck well enough to know what to and not to counter.

I failed hard mode though considering control sucks in this format. I play faeries and wreck any other control/combo decks as well as other slower decks, but the local burn player makes me his woman the majority of the time. Their top deck game is too strong against my suicidal deck.
>>
>>44767096
A judge can and will force you to use another method of cheating is suspected. You'd be kicked out on the basis of the tournament rules, not the comprehensive game rules for not complying.
>>
>>44767782
Both of the latter at least try to mess with you to buy time to go off, turns plays gigadrowse and usually 4 remands, only thing AN cares about is a Leyline and/or a Skite which get popped as soon as your whole deck is in your hand.
>>
>>44768053
Mono blue delver plus chumps plus sky hussar.
>>
>>44767716
There really isn't. Tron is basically a midrange deck that can also consistently go off on turn 3 or 4.
>>
>>44746999
Burn you can play at 85% efficiency
The other 15% require a fuckton of skill and knowledge.
>>
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>>44769124
>count to 20
>skill and knowledge
>>
>>44769135
>Need to efficiently navigate through a the game without falling into a trap
>Need to know every fucking possible thing that may come up to stop you
>Need to pray to every god you know that you don't mana flood or draw a creature when you need 1 point of damage

Sorry that I don't just plop down my entire hand turn 1 and proceed to win.

Fuck Affinity
>>
>>44769154
>Need to efficiently navigate through a the game without falling into a trap
Wrong, either you get countered or you don't, pre-side there's fuck all you can do to a Spellskite.
>Need to know every fucking possible thing that may come up to stop you
Wrong, because as long as that something doesn't wipe your board, strip your hand or put the opponent to a higher life total you don't need to give a shit. Twin, amulet or AN go off if they want to.
>Need to pray to every god you know that you don't mana flood or draw a creature when you need 1 point of damage
>praying is skill praise jesus yee haw

Just stop posting.
>>
>>44769154
>>>Need to efficiently navigate through a the game without falling into a trap
>>Need to know every fucking possible thing that may come up to stop you
>>Need to pray to every god you know that you don't mana flood
So every deck ever is hard to play?
>>
>>44769124
The only part of burn really requiring skill is knowing when not to play eidolon.

Still one more part requiring skill than Tron though.
>>
>>44756382
BUYITNOW!
U
Y
I
T
N
O
W
!
>>
>>44769266
>The only part of burn really requiring skill is knowing when not to play eidolon.
Every time you have 2 red up and the opponent is outside lethal range from what you have in hand and on board? There's literally zero reason to not cast it almost ever, even if it's instantly removed it's a shock they wasted a card on.
>>
If I'm up a game and time is called, and nobody wins after turns, do I win or is it a draw?
>>
>>44769293

>you
1 win, 1 draw, 0 loses

>opponent
0 wins, 1 draw, 1 lose
>>
>>44769293
youre the winner 1-0-1
the last games a draw and youre up one
>>
>>44769396
>>44769403
That's what I thought. Tried a new store a while ago and the TO insisted that if nobody wins turns it's a draw regardless.
>>
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Got some new sleeves for Twin
>>
>>44769595
Should have got some with twins.
>>
>>44769595
Is that even legal to play in a tournament?
>>
>>44747181
The first time I played sanctioned Modern I picked up Affinity. I'd never touched the deck before. Easiest 3-0 of my life.
>>
>>44769891
>>44769891
I got them from a LGS. The owner says it's legal there. I mean, he sells them, so it would be dumb if it's not legal to play at his store.

At any other store, 99% it's not legal for tournaments. But I am allowed to play casually with people.
>>
>>44769573
There are a number of retarded store owners out there.
>>
>>44769920
Is there an official source or rule that I could cite if someone tries to pull that bullshit?
>>
>>44769595
>anime
>boring and derivative twin player.

Really, the only thing that surpasses me about this is your aren't playing tron. But twin is still a pretty good fit.
>>
>>44770075
Go read the Magic Tournament Rules, should be in there somewhere. It's a good document to have read anyways.
>>
>>44768053
x4 Delver
x4 Spellstutter Sprite
x3 Vendillion Clique
x4 Snapcaster Mage

x4 Lightning Bolt
x3 Burst Lightning
x4 Mana Leak
x4 Remand
x2 Electrolyze

x4 Mutavault
x1 Faerie Conclave
x2 Scalding Tarn
x4 Steam Vents
x4 Sulfur Falls
x5 Island
x2 Mountain

Leaves 4 slots for flavor. Consider any of the following:
Vapor Snag
Spell Pierce
Spell Snare
Pillar of Flame (if you face Voice/Finks mostly)
Dismember
Blood Moon
Spellskite
Vedalken Shackles
>>
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They need to change development.
>>
>>44770391
Development ruined BFZ.
>>
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>>
>>44770506
>Why no Jews in Germany?
>Hitler: It turned out to be problematic developmentally.
>>
>>44770549
This analogy makes no sense because what Rosewater said was actually bullshit
>>
>Oath of Gatewatch preorders are up
>Sylvan Advocate, which I had my eye on, is at $3 right now while the big Eldrazi are all commanding high prices.

I can't help but wonder if I should pick it up now, or wait, hope that no decks feature him and it drives the price down even further, then pick him up for a song (and watch his price explode when goyf eventually gets banned).

Similarly, Eldrazi Mimic is only at $1.59...
>>
>>44770702

>What is Thoughtseize.

Come on Anon, I know you're mad you didnt buy a set of IoKs, but MaRo isn't the problem, he's just a scapegoat for your nerdrage.
>>
Is anyone thinking about Stormchaser Mage in any lists? I wanted to use it in burn but I think the 2 mana makes it too slow, even though it has evasion with Flying.
>>
Why didn't they just reprint inquisition in both mm15 and oath?
>>
>>44771029
Because Wizards is stupid
>>
>>44771029
Feeling pretty entiled, aren't you? I am reporting you to SCG and Wizards, prepare for Cedric to break down your door and mindwipe you any minute now.

Check out our amazing deals over at scg.com!
>>
>>44770506
>we will reprint it
>just kidding it'll make more sense in the next set
>sorry it was a problem in that set

What about mm2016? Or are you planning on having it reprinted in Return to Return to Zendikar for sure? :^)
>>
>>44771029

It shouldn't be reprinted period. It's overpowered for the cost.
>>
>>44769595
>>44769891
L1 judge here, the art is just barely too risque for me to allow, since her left nipple (our right) is hanging out. If that were covered up, I'd say they were legal BUT you'd need sleeve protectors that didn't have the rose petal decorations on them.
>>
>>44771169
I get the nipple part but how are the rose petal designs illegal?
>>
>>44769891
Wait, are there rules about legal/illegal sleeves?
>>
>>44771192
the sleeve has to have solid color borders all the way around the card, so that at a sidelong glance you can't pick out a card that's facing the wrong way.
>>
>>44771231
That is news to me, thanks.

>>44771228
I know that you can't use Clear sleeves if your cards have defects, and also you (shouldn't) use sleeves that can get scratched or marked easily, after seeing what happened last weekend.

And of course no exposed anime tiddies.
>>
>>44771228
yeah, the ultimate rule is "whatever that tournament's head judge decides" but here are the major guidelines they use when deciding whether or not to allow:
--Sleeves must all be the same size, shape, and color. (seems obvious but some people don't realize it)
--Sleeves have to have a solid color border around the edge
--Sleeves must not be reflective (allowing you to peek at cards by tilting it before drawing)
--Sleeves must not be excessively worn, scuffed or otherwise marked.
--Sleeve design must not be overly grotesque or risque. This is the biggest judgement call among things.
--Sleeves must not contain any strategic information.
--If you're playing with double-faced cards, the sleeves MUST be 100% opaque (or you're using the checklist cards)
>>
>>44770151
>>boring and derivative twin player.

Twin is literally one of the most non boring deck in modern
>>
EDH NEST FORMAT
U R DUMB IF U THINK MODERN MAGIX GOOD
I FUCK U

U GO WAY NOW.
PIC RELATE BEAT TH IS MODERN FAGAS
>>
>>44771256
Yeah, the "exposed" part is the biggest reason why I'd have to say no on those sleeves. If that was covered up I'd still think the sleeves belonged to a weeaboo waifufag, but as a judge there's nothing against the rules with it, so it plays. If anyone gets triggered by it, that's their problem, not mine.

My job at a tourney is to enforce the rules, not cater to people and prevent them from having bad fee-fees.
>>
>>44769595

I love lewd sleeves.

A shame people get so autistic about them.
>>
>>44747053
>Meanwhile, Delver has multiple lines of play, has to make sure the sequencing of cantrips is correct, has to know when to delve in angler or tasigur, when to properly drop and protect a Young Pyromancer as well. Deck is good, but only if the player is good.

what actually happens is you lose the counterspell fight over twin because you have 3 lands and the other guy has 8
>>
>>44771575

>lewd sleeves
>people getting autistic

You're the autistic one Anon
>>
>>44771699

It's a harmless picture.
>>
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How much do you care about the look of your deck /tg/?
When given the choice, do you go for promos, the original printing or whatever's cheapest?

I have the tendency to be really critical of what basic lands I run in my decks. What's the prettiest Plains in your opinion? I'd probably have to say pic related.
>>
>>44771750
i use as many 7th edition card versions as i can
>>
>>44771750
I think it's best to keep it unpimp unless the pimp cards are relatively cheap. I know someone with a foil out Twin and he doesn't want to update his deck list from a year ago cause he can't afford the new cards in foil.
>>
>>44771750

Newest version possible. I'll use foils, but I prefer to use non-foil. Full art lands only.
>>
>>44771750
For my damia deck it's all foil or original art and working on making it all that plus french language.
My other decks tend to just be foiled. Modern is no foils and just original printings of all my cards. I used to foil it but that gets too expensive, now Im stuck with a lot of arena lands from scapeshift and foil stuff from kiki-pod
>>
>>44771750
Not enough to pay extraordinarly more just to play with slightly less ugly cards, but generally original printing trumps all, especially if it's black bordered old frame.
>>
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>>44746594
>Which deck in the format is the easiest or most brain dead to pilot?
Burn, hands down. You ask yourself 3 questions
>1) does my opener have 17 points of damage or near that?
>2) is my mana okay?
>3) do I skullcrack him now or when they think they might have a chance?
>Which deck requires the most skill to pilot in your opinion?
Either Gifts, Teachings, or scapeshift


Sidenote: Just built Esper mentor, also have grixis control and sultai midrange. What do I go or next?
>>
Challenge: make a perfect Modern deck with an unlimited budget
Hard mode: $1000 max
The Inferno: $60 plus whatever is in your sock drawer
>>
>>44771750
I only care about what cards look like only when one or more version(s) of a card I want to play is trash but if 2 or more versions are meh or one is a bit better than the other I won't bother getting the version that is a little better.

For example I can't play non-promo Scoozes or non promo Sun Titans, their regular versions are trash.
>>
>>44772152
>The Inferno: $60 plus whatever is in your sock drawer
Retard doesn't know my drug money is in my socks in my sock drawer. You even trying?
>>
>>44772169
>Not keeping it underneath a floorboard across the room from the visibly loose floorboard
You retard....
Fine.
Inferno: $60 plus any tips you get working at a strip club With hand-on full service.
>>
>>44771359
Shouldn't you be posting some more anime?

Twin is boring.
>>
>>44772207

So unlimited budget, then.
>>
>>44772207
>Inferno: $60 plus any tips you get working at a strip club With hand-on full service.
You obviously don't know what kind of dirty slut I am
>>
>>44772351
do you do butt stuff?
>>
>>44772059
jund
>>
>>44772152
>Challenge: make a perfect Modern deck with an unlimited budget
UR Twin

>Hard mode: $1000 max
Grixis Twin

>The Inferno: $60 plus whatever is in your sock drawer
Stompy
>>
>>44772438
I think we have a winner, folks.
>>
Did I get fucked????

You decide
>>
>>44772568
No context, so I assume you did so hard your asshole is dribbling.
>>
>>44772579
Well I ordered some Eye of Ugins from MKM.
They were shipped from a few countries away and it's only been 6 days but I feel like the fact that the reference number doesn't exist is suspicious.
Might just be that I can't track the package before it gets to my country
>>
>>44747153
Ravager board states in the face of removal alone are more difficult to play than 90% of other modern decks. You're talking way out of your ass. I hate the robots but only an idiot looks at the deck most pros say is incredibly difficult to sequence and goes "hur dur it's easy"
>>
>>44771320
How would i use the double sided planeswalkers? For example i had two nissa in my deck, but i put two check cards in my deck and put the nissas with my tokens in sleeves one with one showing the creature and one showing the planeswalker and swapping them out as i needed. So when i played the check card i put it aside and got the creature nissa from my token pile and when i flipped it i got the planeswalker and put the creature one back with the tokens.
>>
>>44772404
obviously
>>
>>44772789

You literally just answered your own question
>>
>>44772789

That would work perfectly fine.

Hell, I have my double sided planeswalkers in toploaders.
>>
At which time is the ban announcement on monday?
>>
I know there's a couple of Loam Pox players in these threads, what do you think of Levy's latest changes to the deck?
They seem to make sense to me, but people speak highly of Smallpox in a lot of cases.
>>
>>44772059
>17 points of burn damage
>On an opener

You don't play Burn, do you?
>>
>>44772152
Challenge: make a perfect Modern deck with an unlimited budget
Amulet Bloom before Jan. 18
Hard mode: $1000 max
Amulet Bloom before Jan. 18
The Inferno: $60 plus whatever is in your sock drawer
Amulet Bloom after Jan. 18
>>
>>44772059
>>44773641
this. I mean, burn is definetly a easy deck to play, but (just like any other deck) it takes skill to master, there are a lot of fine nuances when to play what against what matchup.
>>
>>44773674
Ding ding ding.
>>
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I hope you listened to me and preordered yours
>>
>>44773781

But I don't wanna play Eldrazi
>>
>>44773828
Just take the knot
>>
>>44773781
>Thought Nazi
>>
>>44773677
Every deck is difficult to master so burn plays need to stop falling back on that meme when people tell them their deck is easy. Anyone can pick up the deck and go 3-1 or 4-0 at fnm because it's a deck that plays itself.
>>
>>44773867
Kelly?
>>
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>>44773828
Got no choice, man.
>>
>>44773943
SAL??
>>
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>>44773949
That comparison is stupid. Everyone knows mythics are allowed to be broken
>>
>>44773979
i'm a girl sorry
>>44773949
I don't get it
>>
>>44774023
You never watch Men in Black?
>>
>>44773781
So how does this work with flickering? As in I know how it works mechanically, but is snagging a second card out of their hand worth giving them the draw first?
>>
>>44774023
SAL YOU'RE A GIRL?
Why did you never tell me? You sure fooled me with that beard and penis
>>
>>44774049
They draw first, then you pick their hand apart again. I don't really see the point desu but it's definitely good enough without flickering anyway
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>>44773923
A deck being easy to play isn't a bad thing either. You want your deck to be forgiving and easy to pilot, that's a sign that the deck is inherently strong.

Of course, you also want your deck to be hard to play against, but a deck being hard to pilot does not necessarily mean that it's hard for the opponent to get around what it's doing.
>>
>>44773923
>FNM
Anyone can 3-1 or 4-0 at FNM. Try doing that at a large tournament.
>>
>>44774079
Flickering it WOULD give them a draw, but removing something a second time means it's CA neutral and lets you rip their hand apart again. Especially useful if they've had a turn or two since you gave them the Knot the first time.
>>
>>44774174
Cycling their cards isn't exactly ripping their hand apart.
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>>44771750
I'm pretty analysis about my decks asthetic. I prefer that the majority of the frames be uniform and I will sooner not play a deck than include white border cards if that's the only printing available. Feeling proud of my cards is as important as feeling confidant about my deck choice. It's very easy for me to dislike a card if I hate the art. However, victory trumps pride, so I will run things like k-command even though I think the art is fucking lame.
>>
>>44774096
You've obviously have an easy meta, my LGS is full of nothing but people playing tier 1 that have all placed in GPs
>>
>>44760073
It just so happens the lands are like $200 each. I wish legacy was cheaper. Shit looks so cash.
>>
>>44774220
Well, on the bright side, you'd recover a shitload of losses just by having one of each dual your deck would normally run. Shocks hurt much, much less if you have at least one of each dual you need.

Also, you can just proxy shit up.
>>
>>44774208
Semantics aside flickering the damn thing is like flickering a VClique, except you get to see what they draw and kill it if you so desire.

VClique is a good card, and it's good to use a second time. So why would Thought-Knot not be a great thing to re-use?
>>
>>44774395
You cannot possibly compare the power level of the two.
>>
>>44774419
They are very close, and each has advantages over the other
>>
>>44774419
I think you can in some ways.

Obviously losing flash means a lot, specially for control decks, but being a 4/4 is no joke either. Also, making them draw later is a lot safer if what you are doing is keeping them away from specific answers.

Then, there's the fact that being a 4 colorless mana eldrazi allows to potential turn 2 plays: turn 1 and 2 eye of ugin/eldrazi land aren't that crazy. At the most, it comes consistently turn 3.
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>>44774419
If the abilities can be considered the same, then you're comparing a 4 mana 4/4 to a 3 mana 3/1 flier with flash. That's a stupid comparison.
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>>44753353
I dunno man, mono U tron was a deck for a while.
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>>44774419
>1UU for a 3/1 flash flier that has you choose before the draw, can be used on self, extremely vulnerable to getting BTFO by Electrolyze
>3+ANUS for a 4/4 that only gives the draw if and when it dies, sorcery-speed only, works differently with flickering, can't be used to fix your hand, but does play nicely with Eldrazi-specific and ANUS-producing lands like Ghost Quarter
You're right, they're impossible to compare power-wise because aside from removing a card from hand they're completely fucking different cards. Good thing I wasn't comparing their "power": just how they function with flickering effects.
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>>44774462
>>44774395
this desu fampai >>44774419
Yeah, thought-knot may have a big 4/4 body, but you can flash in v clique on their draw step or on the end step to dodge removal and cycle a card yourself. While it only has a 3/1 body, it has flying and is one mana cheaper. Thought-knot doesn't hold a candle to v clique.
>>
>>44771148
>What is thoughseize?
You fucking idiot
>>
>>44771148
It's overpowered in the shit standard block it's in, that's it. One mana discard is pretty standard in terms of cost. The 3 mana restriction is enough to limit it a bit to not be overpowered.
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>>44774539
What exactly is the point of comparing one aspect of a card? Do you sit down and debate the finer points of 1UU costs and 1UR mana costs? Of course, it'd because fucking retarded because mana costs on their own mean nothing. Likewise, the ability on its own means nothing.
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>>44774613
>What exactly is the point of comparing one aspect of a card
Because those single aspects are what make some cards better or worse than others? Such as a card that costs 2W being easier to splash for than one that costs 1WW or WWW and does the same thing. The exact way in which cards that ostensibly do similar things work, such as the differences between Tidehollow Sculler, Vendilion Clique, and Thought-Knot Seer, determine how you use the card.

If you're considering flickering Thought-Knot Seer, the exact nature of its ETB ability is VERY important in determining whether it's worthwhile.
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>>44774760
Wasteland Strangler and Thought-Nazi both work with Eldrazi Displacer
Can't wait :)
>>
>>44774760
You're not just comparing 1WW to WWW though in your example; you're comparing everything on the card and seeing that the only different is the mana cost. That's not the case between Clique and Nazi though, because Clique is so much better it's legitimately hard to believe you could be serious. Having flash quite literally means you get to see your opponent's hand with an extra card in, and it has evasion on top of that. Like nigger, what.
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>>44774909
I've seen that suggested in a few places but it seems like such a weak strategy. Vulnerable to bolt and requires a huge mana investment to get going
>>
I'm kind of surprised that Spike Jester doesn't see Modern play.

>T1 Guide
>T2 Jester
>T3 Jester, Goblin Grenade after combat

That's LITERALLY 20 damage.
>>
>>44775084
Knot Seer can come down on turn 2 in the right deck.
This beats having flash in my book, and it doesn't in yours.
That's called variety
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Did I do good, semfam?
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>>44775200
Goblin tribal decks play them.
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>>44775289
>Hurr I'll ramp into goodstuff fatties xDDD
Variety? Tron has existed for a while.
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>>44775354
And Faerie tribal decks play Mistbind Clique.
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>>44775367
Are you somehow denying Seer turn 2 isn't a strong play?
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>>44775348
Displacer is not going to be good f.am.
I know it's cute to flicker a Strangler but it takes up slots that could be used by better cards.
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>>44775367
Having three/four mana turn 2 is no joke.
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>>44775452
That's why I only got two. I'm sure I can jam them into a standard deck or something.
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>>44775452
Eldrazi Displacer is going to take EDH by storm. It's a better Deadeye Navigator
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>>44775407
I'm saying that by hitting it with Path in response to its ETB, you draw before you lose a card, meaning you have more cards to choose the worst one from.
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>>44775482
>White

Nah it sucks.
Good for Brago tho
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>>44775504
Brago can run Deadeye.
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>>44775490
If they have Path in hand you fucking pick it with Seer
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>>44775520
And now it has two navigators!

Thanks MaRo!
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>>44775525
Wow you're actually Sheldon Menery levels of stupid.
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>>44775525
haha you are very epic friendo.
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>>44775525
That only works if they don;t have W untapped, and they usually will.
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>>44775289
Clique is better because it is viable in more decks.

Thought Nazi will only ever see play in an Eldrazi tribal deck. There it is very strong.

Clique is a powerful card in pretty much any blue deck. UR Delver plays it for the flying/flash beats. Twin plays it because its body helps the beatdown plan and its ability helps the combo plan. UWx Midrange plays it as a hedge against Combo and Control that plays well with Resto Angel. Esper control sideboards it so they can tempo out Tron/Ad Nauseaum and apply pressure in the blue mirror.
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>>44775520
Deadeye dies to a single removal spell.
Eldrazi Displacer laughs at the removal spell and continues to flicker Palinchron another 1000 times in response.
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>>44775631
If you get going, sure.

The problem you now face is that not a single Bant commander is worth flickering so you can't do nearly as much with your shit as you could with Zegana.
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>>44775348
They're all going to be a $1 in 2 weeks.

Should have waited
>>
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Trying out UW Tron for FNM tomorrow. Cobbled together pic related, hopefully won't be too clunky.
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>>44776143
You're going to get obliterated.
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>>44776167
For some reason, my local meta seems to be really soft to Tron. I went 4-0 with Mono Blue Tron last week, and it wasn't even close. Beat Bogles, Zoo, GW Hatebears and UR Twin.
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>>44776307

That's because tron is the best deck, don't listen to /tg/'s salt.
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>>44776307
You were literally playing against every deck you're good against, except Twin. Burn and Affinity will blow your dick apart.
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>>44776390
I've beaten Burn with Mono Blue Tron before. They struggle to deal with Wurmcoil, Chalice of the Void, and Platinum Angel. Affinity is somewhat of a challenge, but the games are fairly close.
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>>44773781
brought mine at 7.25
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>>44776488
>They struggle to deal with Wurmcoil
Well they shouldn't since Atarka's Command stops lifelink for a turn, which SHOULD be just long enough to finish you.
>>
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>>44771750
I have 9 of these foil in my legacy deck, cost about 450 for them all.
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>>44776510
Good deal :^)
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>>44776520
That is true, especially when I played GR Tron.Having countermagic is very useful, as you can generally live long enough to get one attack/block in without getting Skullcracked. And at that point, I am generally out of range.

Playing Mono Blue is better as well, as you can still win through Crumble to Dust, as most of my spells are fairly cheap.
>>
Is this the perfect meta for Ad Nauseam and combo in general?
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>>44776807
everything is fucking combo now, unless it's eldrazi ramp.
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>>44775621
Look, I don't think you understand why I brought it up in the first place. I don't know what anyone else is talking about, nor do I care. I was evaluating Thought-Knot for a deck into which Clique would not go. The only reason Clique even comes up is as a point of comparison to determine whether the sort of deck that wants Thought-Knot could have a build that flickers Thought-Knot in a similar way to how UWx Midrange plays Clique: not as a possible substitute to decks that really want Clique.

Talking about power is pointless to the discussion I wanted to have, because it's simply not relevant.
>>
>>44774294
>Also, you can just proxy shit up
Just finding the right Chinaman, senpai.
I don't have real duals or Wastelands with which to compare, so gotta be careful and make sure I don't get busted for trying to play a children's card game without paying 3000 dollars for it.
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>>44777406
Just give it up, these people are completely retarded and don't understand what analogies are.
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>>44776544
No offense, but that's nuts.
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>>44776849
Isn't Legacy mostly combo?
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>>44777793
Yes, all the oldest formats are.
>>
Just give us FoW already lol
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>>44771148
Eldrazi set - IoK overpowered

When did standard become shit show?
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>>44777793
No, the biggest portion of the Legacy metagame is control.
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>>44777793
No, the most powerful decks in Legacy are Miracles, the single most controlling deck in all of Magic, and BUG(r), which is slow and grindy as all fuck. Special mention to Lands for being a powerful control deck that's so off the wall it makes Michael Jackson's corpse blush.
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>>44777793
I would actually argue modern has at least the same percentage of combo, if not more. There isn't too many "fair" decks in modern, because only versatile/viable answers we have is removal and hand disruption to combo. Maybe some decks have some other control, but certainly not on top tier. (MonoU, lantern)

The other half in modern is linear super fast decks and even those tend to depend on "combo".
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>>44769595

The product page didn't really show any nipples though.

http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=CGM-7691
>>
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>>44778086

Meanwhile this one has fully covered nipples

http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?gcode=CGM-7906
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>>44771734

It's also harmless to walk dick out of jeans, but we ain't fucking autists.
>>
>>44777793
>>44777820
Actually, Legacy is one of the most interactive and skill-intensive formats out there.
Don't take my word for it, decide for yourself.

Let's look at the top decks shall we:
>Miracles: 13.56% meta
Easily the deck to beat, with a plurailty in the format with the next most common deck at 3.39% less representation.
Perhaps its closest analogue could be Lantern Control in its key powerhouse engine of Counterbalance and Sensei's Divining Top, but with a far more conventional control build around it. Board wipes in Terminus, card advantage in Jaces and Snaps, and a very effective threat in the form of Monastery Mentor in case Jace doesn't get there. Game 1 can be compared to Twin. It can assemble its engine and just win against some decks, but unlike Twin it's simply a card advantage and permission engine and not an "I-win" combo.
Hell, Counterbalance+Top can be beaten by anything as simple as just having creatures in play before they put it together, countering it (they play their own Forces too, of course, but that's where interaction comes into play) or Abrupt Decay (often mainboard), or one of the powerhouse cards of the next most played deck:

>Grixis Delver: 10.17%
Unlike the blazing fast UR Delver of yesteryear, this deck utilizes the insane power of Deathrite Shaman (turns out it's pretty sick with Wastelands) and Gurmag Angler (who even needs Tarmogoyf?) to grind out victories.
Delver for fast beats, Young Pyromancer to go wide.

>cont....
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>>44777632
If you're bringing it to tournaments, you probably won't get caught on the FNM level. People simply don't give a fuck.

>>44777793
Like in Modern, there are lots of linear combo strategies in Legacy. And they tend to be much, much faster than their Modern counterparts. However, they don't eat up a huge chunk of the metagame, because Force of Will is a card, allowing fair decks to coexist.
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>>44778209
Funny how Angler is practically a better Goyf in legacy. When Deathrite Shaman and Scooze can keep graveyards clear of specific types, Angler shines. I honestly think that at this point, Goyf has no excuse to be so expensive when Goyf/Bananarama are as good as him if not better.

Captcha asked me to identify bananas lel.
>>
>>44778209
>Shardless BUG/Sultai 8.47%
This is Value.dec
This deck just wants to win by getting way more value than you could possibly get, ever.
How's it work?
A 1UG 2/2 Cascade card
Shardless Agent allows you to cascade into Goyfs, Ancestral Vision, Hymn, Decays, Brainstorms in a pinch, Deathrite Shaman or Baleful Strix (wonder what that card is? It's a UB 1/1 flying, deathtouch creature that cantrips. Yes, that's the kind of creature a deck like this loves in Legacy. An efficient card advantage deathtouch deterrent).

It supplements its beatdown with Goyfs and the 2/2 Agent with the ability to go over the top using Jace.
It plays Liliana of the Veil too because why the fuck wouldn't you. When you grind out better than anyone else, you play LotV.
>Storm: 6.21%
I'm not explaining fucking Storm to you. If you don't know what Storm wants to do, how the hell can you even complain about combo decks.
Only difference is it uses Tendrils of Agony instead of Grapeshot and it's actually decent (just decent) instead of garbage/degenerate as combos swing to and fro in Modern.
Note, this is the first combo deck we've seen in Legacy. It's not in Tier 1 like the other three, but it's still a contender.
Lot more cerebral than the far simpler linear decks of Modern, at least in my opinion, but I'm not a Storm pilot so maybe I'm just retarded, hah.
Among other quite bad matchups is Miracles, so it's kept very much in line by the control available in the format.
>cont....
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>>44778392
Storm is solid when there's hate, and tier 0 when there isn't. It would make up much more of the metagame if it wasn't 1) really expensive, and 2) boring after a while because you're playing a single player game. I built UR Storm for Modern a while back, and had to take it apart from the boredom.
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>>44778138
Five hours too late, anon. He probably already left reveling in his supposed victory.
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>>44778480
Legacy Storm is hardly single-player, though. Playing around countermagic and maximizing your Cabal Therapies adds quite a bit to the game.
>>
>>44778392
>Patriot/Jeskai/UWR Delver: 5.65%
It's Delver, but with True-Name Nemesis (a 3/1 beater for 3 mana that basically dodges everything), better creature removal and Stoneforge Mystic.
Stoneforge Mystic is obviously powerful, and Batterskull can be a beating, but it's still a fair, interactive midrange/tempo deck.

>Burn: 4.52%
Basically Modern Burn, but more consistent, explosive (Fireblast and Price of Progress are the nuts) and easier to beat because of its reliance on spells instead of creatures. Burn's creatures are far worse in Legacy than in Modern (because people actually play creatures and blockers in Legacy) so it only runs the really busted ones. Guides, Swiftspears, Eidolons and Lavamancers (which barely count as creatures, honestly).
Very important thing to note if you're even slightly interested in Legacy: Legacy Burn is around $200 cheaper than Modern Naya Burn. It's mono-red, so it only plays fetches for deck thinning and no duals, and the only money card added is Chain Lightning (which is almost exactly equivalent to Atarka's Command, so it balances out).
If you have Goblin Guides, Mesas/other red fetches and Eidolons, you can build this deck for basically nothing.
That may be a contributor to why it's such a well-represented deck in the meta, but I have no data to back that assertion up.

>>44778480
Storm is cheaper than literally every other Tier 1-2.5 deck other than Burn, and around equal to Death and Taxes.
But yes with no hate it's degenerate.
Charbelcher is better in that situation.
It's a good deck, but it's not oppressive in any way.

(also I just realized /tg/ has more than 1500 character count now, so now I feel retarded for making so many posts, when the hell did they update that?)

Next deck:
>Sneak and Show: 4.52%
At the 7th spot in Legacy we're up to the second combo deck, and boy is this one a doozy when it goes off but it's so easy to mainboard hate I don't even know why people bother.
They like to getcha, I guess?
>cont
>>
>>44778644
Its had 2000 max character count for as long as I can remember.
>>
>>44777906
They printed a ton of little Eldrazi in this block

I'm guessing they didn't want IoK taking Eldrazi cards, flavor fail and all. I can't really imagine another reason it would be problematic or whatever.
>>
>>44778698
Nigga he's talking about Legacy Storm.
>>
>>44778724
I blame Budweiser personally.
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>>44777679
Not in Canuck bucks
>>
>>44778644
Just to quickly sum up Sneak and Show:
Show and Tell is 2U sorcery: both players put a permanent into play. Just like that.
You get a Griselbrand, Emrakul, or Sneak Attack (basically another "cheat shit into play" card that's more resilient since it doesn't just fire and go away forever), they get a... Goyf?
You get real sad if you put an Emrakul into play and they put a Jace though. Goodbye Emrakul, goodbye game. It's APNAP after all, so they see your shit first.
Don't Show and Tell Emrakul against Miracles if you have Grizzly.
Sneak Attack is just 3R enchantment: R: cheat shit into play, it gains haste, sac at end step.
Annihilator 6 makes the sac kinda not really hurt at all.

>>44778690
I quit /tg/ for a long while back in 2012 when I felt the quality took a downturn, but it was definitely 1500 back in 2010/2011

>>44778757
It's all good, my man. We all just like getting people with rituals.

>RUG Delver: 3.95%
One of my favourite decks just in the idea of it.
Nimble Mongoose!
Four of them!
Beat your enemy to death with Delvers, Mongeese, Goyfs and Stifles to their fetchlands and Wastelands to their duals!
Land destruction makes you everybody's friend!
It's just a tempo Delver deck with 12 creatures and a much bigger focus on land denial and tempo than grinding, but it's just fun to play a deck that does nothing to win but play 3/3s, 3/2s and Goyfs.

>Elves: 3.95%
Basically: Glimpse of Nature into Heritage Druid into drawing your entire deck into Craterhoof. Has a decent beatdown plan C, but it's mostly just Glimpse combo.
We're finally up to our third combo deck in our
>>44777820
>mostly combo format like all the old formats
though!

I might as well stop here but I might be retarded so why not keep going, not like I have anything better to do:

>Death and Taxes: 3.39%
Hatebears!
Vials, Flickerwisps, Thalias and Stoneforge Mystics. What's not to love?
Most important card is probably Mother of Runes though, that card is the nuts.
>cont....
>>
>>44778933
The percentages may look low, but Legacy is a much more varied metagame than Modern. Personally I own a finished MIRACLES XDDD deck that I legitimately enjoy piloting because the deck doesn't think I'm an idiot. That's what Modern is lacking; decisions. Burn vomits their permanents, then their face burn while holding up mana for Skullcrack at all times against colours that might gain life. Affinity players just calculate how to best blow their load as prematurely as possible then just attack and equip at instant speed like they're fucking Einstein for realizing they can do that. This is why I'm the epic memester because Molten Vortex + Loam. I just got bored of playing one dimensional decks so approached control from another angle. My only bad matchup is Scapeshift.
>>
Feelin pretty good about this you guys
>>
>>44778933
Important to note about Death and Taxes is that it's actually really, really interactive and amazing to spectate because of its myriad lines of play.
if you want to see some top-tier Magic (in my humble, scrub, Timmy/idiot Spike PoV), check out the very first round of SCG Player's Championship 2015 between Brad Nelson's D&T and Jacob Wilson's Grixis Delver, and then tell me that's not some fun Magic:
https://youtu.be/4L0os_Almmo
You can find the rest of the coverage here if you like: https://www.mtgcoverage.com/
I don't know if this is shilling but it's 1:40 and I should've been asleep at 10 PM so I blame being a mongoloid for it.
Still though, Game 2 was a fucking treat to watch.

>BUG Delver: 3.39%
Like Grixis Delver, but you give up Young Pyromancer and burn spells that give you reach for the sexy, sexy Dark Confidant (you can get some life back with DRS if necessay now that you have green mana) and Abrupt Decays. Oh, and Goyf, but I mean you're playing BUG. The G stands for Goyf.
You obviously don't play Dark Confidant even though you have black in Grixis because of your Delve spells. Again, grindy format, so Lava Axing+1 yourself matters.
>>44779028
To back this friendly Anon up, here's a spoiler for that SCG event:
BUG Delver took 1st place.
It doesn't have Gitaxian Probes (Dark Confidants again, too much life loss) and therefore also doesn't have Cabal Therapy (also no tokens to flashback it, since it's honestly probably fine maybe to play blind), but this speaks to how important player skill and understanding of how to play each matchup matters.
It's not about the coinflips like in Modern, it's not about drawing your sideboard cards (both players will probably have ridiculous card filtering and will have whatever cards they want to have), it's about knowing whether your sideboard card is actually your out, how to play the matchup and how to punish people for not assessing your outs and options correctly.

>cont...
>>
>>44778804
I retract my previous statement
>>
>>44779190
Nobody is reading all of these walls
>>
>>44779292
I read it. I don't agree with him on BUG Delver though. The deck almost always splashes red for Bolt/Pyromancer because your mana base is already so greedy that seriously, if you're in for a penny, fuck it, go balls deep.
>>
>>44779190
>Grixis Control: 2.82%
Full disclosure: I have no fucking idea why this is a deck.
It's 4 Pyromancers, 1 Angler, 1 Tiago and 1 Baleful Strix (that 1/1 flying deathtouch cantrip), and then a bunch of removal, discard, and card advantage.
Like, it plays fucking Kolaghan's Command mainboard?
In Legacy?
Where people can play, y'know, fucking Daze?
And it's an established deck?
I guess it is!
It also plays Painful Truths which... y'know I'm not even gonna bother, I'm too much of a casual to understand how a deck like this is actually good in Legacy.
I mean sure Legacy is grindy, but this deck is like 8rack with Pyromancer in a format where turn 1 kills are a thing.

>>44779292
ok, I'm sorry to take up space in your thread that's already past bump limit, I am a waste of space and I am bad and should feel bad
Still not gonna stop though. Eat a dick.

Finally, of the most established decks, we have UR Delver.
Like Burn?
Like Swiftspears and Price of Progress for 4-6 damage?
Don't like not playing Force of Will and Snapcaster to Price, Snap, Price?
Well I guess you're fucking insane but here's UR Delver, a deck that's Burn but with Blue.
Snaps, Delvers, Swiftspears and Chain Lightning, and doesn't insta-lose to Storm.
It plays fucking Vapor Snag, what the shit.

Now, that's all of the top-top decks in Legacy, but it's not even close to all of the viable decks. I haven't even mentioned Lands, Infect, 4c Loam, Imperial Painter, Aluren, Enchantress, Merfolk, Reanimator, or the big bad boogeyman Dredge.
You'll notice basically almost no decks are pure combo.
In essence, this giant tirade is one long fuck you to
>>44777820

I hope at least one person has seen something that interested them and they feel like picking up Legacy, even if only online. It's a fun format, and China is waiting for your freedombucks so you can flip Wizards the bird.

>>44779378
That's 4c Delver, a different deck without Confidant and more Delve (which burn fuels).
Not played at all now.
>>
>>44778506
Dunno about that. I'm quite sure there is tons of that kind of people in here.

>>44779292
I am.... for the interesting bits. Pretty much self explanatory shit to be honest.

But basically what he is saying is, that Legacy has more varied gameplans other than "put a fat fuck on table and hit him in the face". There is way more(like more than one at least) playlines to take or things to take into account.
>>
>>44779508
Well, it was pretty awesome pre-DTT ban.

Young Pyromancer + Cabal Therapy is delicious.
>>
Somebody made a new thread.

>>44778386
>>44778386
>>
>>44779543
It's still quite cool imo, young pyro -> gitaxian probe -> cabal therapy flashback is fucking brutal.

It also cantrips so much shit on grave, which makes things like angler so damn good.
Thread replies: 343
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