I've always played dragons in a way that seemed to make my PCs angry, but I thought was perfectly reasonable.
To a dragon older than 30-40 years essentially all it need fear, in it's mind, are other dragons. On the prime they exist as the near pinnacle of what a creature can be objectively, and in their own opinion of course they are on top.
Dragons have no need to consider a mortal who must cloak themselves in piles of magic to try and make themselves strong, a dragon is strong by merely being a dragon. Why should they care about mortals? What point is it to care about creatures who live and die so quickly. A dragon will see the rise and fall of an empire.
Generally I play dragons in a way they can not be reasoned with, because to them they have no reason to even consider a mortal opinion.
(Also I've only had a party survive an encounter with an ancient+ dragon once, because I have my dragons not fight like retards. As soon as a dragon gets 6th level spells it's almost impossible for a party to kill).
no, that means that the equivalent of an autist among dragons is a dragon who is really socially gregarious and good at picking up social cues and doesn't feel a compulsive need to hoard coins and then spend all its time arranging them according to size, denomination and metal content.
It's why it's known as the Kobold Spectrum among Dragon psychologists.
>>44735016 >and the best way to both appease it's arrogance and win is to turn off the mortal's magic stuff. If the dragon was truly arrogant, it would believe it would win no matter what, so why even bother with antimagic?
>>44735035 Oh yes, I forgot my mother way I make dragons stupidly strong.
I have them wear magic gear appropriate for their hoard. Essentially carrying their hoard on their back. This pisses players off so much going "no, they shouldn't do that". I just tell them the fucking dragon is a caster and has the feats, he also has a fucking cult full of casters willing to craft for him.
>>44735134 >dragons with their stupidly powerful selves >always antimagic >also getting magic gear for themselves >always wins Who are you, Paolini? Sounds like you've just got a hard on for dragons and TPKs
>>44735035 any dragon who's made it to the age where they can cast magic knows that the only things mortals have that CAN kill them is magic, so they simply remove what they see as the only threat to them that exists.
>>44735134 so basically your dragons are shadowrun dragons, is what I'm getting from all this.
>>44735165 >so basically your dragons are shadowrun dragons, is what I'm getting from all this. Never played shadowrun. My philosophy for dragons is that they are megalomaniacs that have spent their lives fighting other dragons for territory/hoards and as such been forced to get good at killing.
>>44735203 Shadowrun dragons are basically that, except they're also on the very top of and running the cyberpunk dystopia of a setting in addition to having the strongest magic in the setting as a result of being the most ancient race in existence.
>>44735203 Shadowrun dragons are basically on a similar level to gods. It's nearly impossible to win against one and even if you do there's no guarantee that it's actually dead.
It's a good way to make dragons threatening, but sometimes it might not make sense with younger or dumber (white) dragons. I'd check the int/wis scores and have their plans be appropriately thought-out.
>>44735324 >It's a good way to make dragons threatening, but sometimes it might not make sense with younger or dumber (white) dragons. I'd check the int/wis scores and have their plans be appropriately thought-out. This is why I prefaced with ancient dragons. Even an ancient white dragon is Int 16 Wis 19. Also, you don't have to be above average int/wis to realize that wearing magic gear is a good idea.
>>44735203 >Never played shadowrun Dragons in Shadowrun are pretty much unstoppable not due to their strength, but because the very first thing all the dragons did was take advantage of their longevity to hit the stock market like a cheap hooker. The second thing was buy out companies. As a result, they're all stupidly rich megacorp CEOs with more personal political power than most entire governments, and usually a larger milit- I mean security force. 99% of all top-level shit that goes on in the setting does so at a dragon's say-so, and they scheme like motherfuckers.
Generally speaking, if an endgame Shadowrun party in informed that, say, Dunkelzahn has taken a personal interest in them, the smartest response is to immediately buy tickets on the next flight to Mars. Second best option is prayer and doing whatever the fuck he wants.
>>44735726 No, they just used cleaning out the market as seed money for buying out corps, then megacorps. Once you're CEO of a megacorp, you personally ARE about 10% of the global GDP, and your megacorp produces another 15%. National governments are pretty much completely irrelevant in Shadowrun, the megacorps own literally everything.
>>44735842 Not really. We're already most of the way there today. Hell, there are more than 10,000 different newspapers and news stations in the US, and all of them are owned by six companies. If the six of them get together and agree to pool their resources, bam, you have a megacorperation. Google's almost made it there all by themselves.
>>44734558 Really, "they have no reason to consider a mortal opinion"? I am angry because this view is unreasonable.
If there's no competition in Dragonland, they can do whatever the fuck they want. Live in isolation and collect gold as you please.
If, however, as in many settings, dragons like to actively fuck with other dragons, then the dragons that make deals with mortals are going to get ahead of the "muh master race" dragons, acquire more resources, and kill the purist dragons and take their shit. Which they will then buy more mortal servants with and kill more dragons.
If you don't cut a deal with mortals (say, that empire) another dragon will. Yeah, you have a fuckload of magic, but you're only one body, one mind. Mortal magic is just as good as dragon magic since it doesn't take a dragon's lifespan to get to 15th level or whatever. They can do it in a couple of decades.
Sometimes the rules of economics and the rules of nature go hand in hand: if you don't respect what's on the market/in your environment, someone else is going to buy it and use it to drink your goddamn milkshake. Most authors realize this and write their dragons like or literally as the best businessmen, and you can't do busness if you don't consider your shareholders' opinions.
>>44736092 Actually, it is inside of you. Emanations radiate from a point of origin, and in Antimagic Field's case this is centered on you. You're free to play it as you see fit, the "radiates from a circumference" is intuitively more satisfying. Still, playing RAW keeps some emanations from getting frustratingly gigantic. Like, say, a Colossal creature casting Antimagic Field! That's a lot of fucking antimagic.
>>44735937 Doesn't stop anybody though. They're just really secretive and subtle about it. Working their way up to the day they try to get the anti-trust laws repealed. Then we're REALLY in the shitter.
>>44736364 "An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres."
Antimagic Field "Area: 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you"
There's no rules text to describe how an emanation would radiate from a circumference. The easiest thing to do would be to say, "This spell and others are clearly designed for Medium creatures, Large+ creatures would naturally get to research Large+ versions of those spells that include a usable radius", and then go from there. Because that's exactly what happened: Antimagic Field and the Emanation rules were written with PC's in mind, not Monster PC's or Gargantuan spellcasters. Despite Gargantuan spellcasters being an iconic part of the game.
>>44734374 One time we found a retarded drake in our game. He kept asking if we were food so the druid sent him to attack the asshole questgivers mansion that had thousands of butlers named fred (alfred, manfred, etc)
>>44734374 I'm pretty sure that's already the case, given that they don't get along with one another, tend to be solitary, hoard shiny bullshit that they have no real use for, and the only way women will be near them is if they are being held prisoner in a dark cave.
>>44734374 White dragons don't actually live in icy climates. As the least intelligent dragon species, they're just nonstop mouth breathing (ice breath) herp derps. They're so autistic they render the local environment uninhabitable by other species.
>>44735285 >Most ancient race Nope, they appeared in the second age, way after humanity. >strongest magic Horrors would like to have a word with you. >running the setting They are only alive because everyone else is too busy fighing each other to bother wiping them out. This goes for every other being or organization in Shadowrun too, though. As soon as a few top-dog countries realise what they are truly up to, they are getting nuked, Thor Shotted or pwned by drone swarms, no matter the consequences. When the Blight (which is the strongest unified force in the setting by far) comes, humanity will be even more rabid.
>>44736259 The core concept of his dragons is that they literally don't think any lesser creature can do him any harm. It means that, by any dragon's standards, humans can do fuck all to him. Other dragons can go make deals with humans, bring an army if they want, the only thing that would matter at all in a fight is the strenght of that other dragon.
The point is, they don't see humans as weak. They see humans as nothing. And nothing, with all the magic it can learn and all the numbers it can gather, is still nothing. It's a step further from the usual Businessmen Dragons, where dragons see humans as weak, simpleminded assets that can bring him advantages.
>>44752031 Nukes are the ultimate equalizer. When war breaks out in earnest, missiles fly. When missiles fly (don't forget toxic spirits making fallout even more nasty), ensuing economical nightmare becomes irrelevant. I bet ruskies kept their nukes and made some more. Even today, each of their assloads of missiles has assloads of decoys that will overwhelm Shadowrun's ABLs.
>>44752476 A tank shell that goes through its head before it even hears the shot or a kamikaze drone still kills the lizard. Sure, there is Twist Fate fuckery, but each round of said fuckery makes the dragon permanently weaker. Eventually, it is just unable to invoke Twist Fate and kisses its ass goodbye. Also, there are AA vehicles even today that use 57mm and 76mm autocannons. If you have enough meat for the grinder or make those AA tanks automated, the hail of shells will whittle down even lone GDs. GDs that surround themselves with mortal servants are way harder to terminate.
>>44753205 Well, it was a magical bomb, implied to be Aztech exclusive, and the dude in question most probably knew it was there and wasn't trying to survive. That bomb also resulted in a tear in reality.
Firewing (early GD that started old-fashioned genocide routine) went down after being hit by two ordinary missiles from a Tiger helicopter. Retconned by SSR into being pwned by ultra-special missile, but who cares?
>>44734374 >All sentient dragons now suffer from an autism spectrum disorder.
Autism is seen as a sign of greatness. Autists said to be descended from, or otherwise related to dragons. They are instantly granted high status and special privileges, raising their families to prestige.
>>44755782 How would they specifically detect it in a pre-industrial setting? Do they use Sonic-fanfic-writing contests to determine their leaders? Do they just throw wealth, privileges, and noble titles at anyone who acts like a weird awkward spaz?
>>44756104 What's it about Sonic that seems to appeal to autists so much? Or rather, why's it that autists are associated with it?
And while we're at it, why is it that autists are so often depicted as liking spaghetti? Like, I assumed it was a part of 4chan's spaghetti meme but I've seen this referenced in films and all, some of them actually serious dramas. If the the autistic kid/guy will be mentioned to have obsessive preferences in food (like, he only ever eats one thing, or he has to eat it for every lunch, or something), an inordinate amount of the time it will be spaghetti.
Is it because that spaghetti is considered a kids' food in America? Is liking spaghetti meant to show someone is infantile?
my dragons have an obsession with gold on the most extreme autistic level. So much so that even when they have lots of gold they don't care about the gold itself but the fact that they own a shit ton of it. They also kill anyone who wants to enjoy the gold for pleasure.
>>44756466 >What's it about Sonic that seems to appeal to autists so much? Or rather, why's it that autists are associated with it? I don't know why, but it's sort of a touchstone of autistic fans. At the start of fandoms, it was Star Trek and the terrible fanfics published in fanzines that eventually spawned the parody OC "Mary Sue" that would become THE shorthand for overpowered self-insert OCs. Then it was Sonic at the beginning of the Internet age. And MLP and bronies started here. God, 4chan and it's cultural forebears would make such an interesting study. >Is it because that spaghetti is considered a kids' food in America? Is liking spaghetti meant to show someone is infantile? It is not. If anything, the "babby's first pasta" meal would be mac and cheese (the Kraft kind, not the real man's mac and cheese your black grandma makes at thanksgiving).
>>44756466 >>44757180 I don't know and I'm not even American, but if I think about it it may have something to do with how easy it is to get hilariously dirty eating spaghetti. Sauce all over your mouth and clothes and everything. Spaghetti itself wouldn't make anyone look autistic but seeing a grown man with a reddish blot of spaghetti sauce over his cheeks and all over his too-small, inappropriate sweat soaked T-shirt might appear to be a visual cue for autism.
>>44756466 >but I've seen this referenced in films and all, some of them actually serious dramas. If the the autistic kid/guy will be mentioned to have obsessive preferences in food (like, he only ever eats one thing, or he has to eat it for every lunch, or something), an inordinate amount of the time it will be spaghetti. I'd need some examples of this
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