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D&D 4e General, Half HP Double Damage Edition
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File: sloth devil.jpg (95 KB, 507x705) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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Trying to make a group of enemies that are very difficult to kill in some ways (pic related with area attacks), and whose weaknesses are partially countered by others (this one counters the relative melee-weakness of a skirmisher devil in the group).

Any comments/tips/thoughts?

Also 4e general.
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File: horned devil.jpg (107 KB, 508x702) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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As a contrast, here is the devil that's supposed to cover the sloth devil's melee weakness, but which can't do much against ranged attacks.
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>>44729797
Loss of a healing surge is way too much for an at-will
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>>44729853
It would otherwise do ~44 damage, which is about the same as a surge is worth. It just felt better for a sloth devil to not roll a lot of dice.

In which ways would losing a surge be worse than just taking ~44 untyped damage?
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>>44729894
Well, I haven't played 4E in a while so I'm a little hazy regarding the HP totals by level but it essentially penalizes you for being a tough dude.

Also, 44 damage for an At-will burst? Sounds like a little a lot.
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>>44729954
>Also, 44 damage for an At-will burst? Sounds like a little a lot.
They are also epic level creatures, anon.
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>>44729970
Well, your RBA deals 51 on average. 44 for everyone in 5x5 square... that's 88-176 damage a round
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>>44729970
Not only that, enemies have half HP and do double damage.

>>44730003
It's a controller, so area focus is kind of its thing. The averge HS value among the players is 30.
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Wow, these sound like a real pain to fight.

Does the horned devil also get an opportunity if you just move in its reach/aura? It looks like you could just run past it and chop the sloth demon up. Then again, if they are standing next to each-other, that'd provoke.

Maybe put a pull in there somewhere, so he can literally yank enemies away from Slotty?
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I'm joining a new silly 4e game and I'm thinking of making a Maid theme, for shits and giggles. To be completely clear about my intentions, it's not a serious game and I'm going for the unrealistic anime sort of maid more than any representation of an actual servant. I just like the idea of playing a badass combat maid in a floofy armour dress.

Saying that, I also want to make the mechanics behind it actually worth using, so I'm pondering ideas for the various features and utilities it'll provide.

For the base level 1, I was thinking increasing the bonus from the Aid Another action by 1, with the level 10 increasing it by another 1 and removing the penalty to the allies action for failure.

For the level 5 I'm not sure, perhaps something to allow you to be an effective assistant at any skill, even those you aren't trained in? Some sort of bonus to assisting if you aren't trained in a skill, to make up the difference.

On powers, I've got a few vague ideas, but it's how to implement and execute them, and what levels they'd make sense for.

'Demure Disappearance' would let you gain Concealment/Invisibility vs an enemy while you didn't take offensive actions, as your harmless and subservient demeanor goes beneath their attention, breaking as soon as you took an action to draw attention to yourself.

'Oh my, what a mess~' is the first thing I thought up while pondering a Maid theme for 4e, a power that lets you remove difficult terrain and other environmental features, within reason. It's whether of making it a close burst or blast, or making it a movement power that clears all the squares you move over.

Not really settled on anything else, but all I really need is the 2, 6 and 10 powers along with the 1, 5 and 10 features, unless I'm missing something else Themes require. Any thoughts?
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>>44730052
>Does the horned devil also get an opportunity if you just move in its reach/aura? It looks like you could just run past it and chop the sloth demon up. Then again, if they are standing next to each-other, that'd provoke.
Nope, no threatening reach. Considered it for a while, but it'd be insane with reach 4.

>Maybe put a pull in there somewhere, so he can literally yank enemies away from Slotty?
Also fits the spiked chain. Nice, will probably do that.
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>>44730034
>Not only that, enemies have half HP and do double damage.
Tried that. Wiped my party in 2 rounds.

>It's a controller, so area focus is kind of its thing. The averge HS value among the players is 30.
With 30 it's 60-120 dmg per round. 90-180 for tanky characters, prolly. It's still strictly better than RBA, just with less range.

You know, as a random idea: you could make this attack put a special status on PCs and they become eligible targets for a minor action area attack that makes them immobilized first, then dazed, then drains them of surges
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>>44730057
Level 5 sometimes provides a +2 bonus to two skills, so you could have the Maid gain a +5 bonus to Aid Another checks instead?

There's already a Warlord feat that increases Aid bonuses from +2 to +4.

>>44730095
>Tried that. Wiped my party in 2 rounds.
I've been doing it for half a year now, and it's working fine.

>With 30 it's 60-120 dmg per round. 90-180 for tanky characters, prolly. It's still strictly better than RBA, just with less range.
Yeah, damage-wise it's meant to be better because it doesn't weaken. The RBA damage is reduced by 25%.

>You know, as a random idea: you could make this attack put a special status on PCs and they become eligible targets for a minor action area attack that makes them immobilized first, then dazed, then drains them of surges
I was thinking of having it drain surges periodically (Each failed save -1 surge/Ongoing -1 surge (save ends)), but it just seemed more cruel than handing out surge loss as a hit effect. I would go for Daze->Stun, but those conditions are boring as hell.

The problem with only putting the condition on the PCs hit is also that it would need to do at least some damage because otherwise slotty could be dazed and killed in one round with only a controller and a striker attacking him, and that'd be boring as well. And I'm just not sure what kind of damage would fit with laziness - it feels like dying from laziness would be better expressed through pure surge loss.
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File: inquisitor.jpg (107 KB, 507x714) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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Also, here's the anti-melee skirmisher that's supported by both of the above monsters.
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>>44730181
>Yeah, damage-wise it's meant to be better because it doesn't weaken
Is Weakened even all that strong of a condition compared to Immobilized? Immobilized sucks like crazy when there are artillery around.

>I would go for Daze->Stun, but those conditions are boring as hell.
Stun certainly is boring as hell. Daze is mostly fine, IMO.

>it feels like dying from laziness would be better expressed through pure surge loss.
It's very fitting thematically, certainly. Also would fit well for despair demons.
And necrotic also fits but it sucks balls and you already use it anyway
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>>44730262
Immobilized doesn't mean a lot as long as only a single enemy can inflict it. The PCs are mostly ranged, and all have ranged options anyway.
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>>44730057
Call it "servant" instead of "maid" so it can be used for butlers as well. Something like "Exemplary servant" sounds good imo.

Possibly have a power in there that helps with saves.

I think instead of Aid another bonuses, you could put in an at-will 1st level feature that functions similarly, but can't be stacked with Aid improving feats and stuff (hence it can be made better out the gate). Not sure if it's a good idea, but Aid didn't ever look that good to me, probably 'cause most leaders can give out more than that +2, along with doing damage.
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>>44730289
Oh, okay. Yeah,, with that encounter and party it doesn't really work, true
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>>44730293

Exemplary Servant is probably a better name, yeah.

As for making it its own thing, maybe, although the advice from >>44730181 would end up with the Aid Another bonus being a pretty reliable bonus which doesn't cost me any resources. It'd be primarily for out of combat use anyway, I imagine.
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>>44729797
Those monster sheets look so awfully convenient.
>mfw my favorite system doesn't even have a proper official bestiary.
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>>44730318
For the At-will power I was thinking like
"Servant's Aid
Immediate interrupt
Trigger:An ally in 1 makes an attack roll, skill roll, or saving throw.
Target: The ally making a throw.
Effect: Add your main stat to the roll. You lose your standard action next turn."

Probably too good, could be used as a later encounter power without the action loss.
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>>44730355
Yeah, one of the best aspects of D&D 4e is how easy it is to plan for the DM.
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>>44730399
It's not much different from this, though.
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>>44730399
Actually the entire Torm Domain for the Warpriest Cleric would probably fit very well with the Servant. Aside from pic related, you also get >>44730577.
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>>44730057
>silly 4e game
They're all silly. Because 4e is silly with its anime style surges and every class being a psuedo mage.
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>>44730697
Only if you arrive at the game with 3.5ish notions of what a mage is like.
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>>44730676
>>44730577

Looking at it, I can kind of see what you mean, but I was hoping on making it somewhat more focused on out of combat utility, buffing ally skill checks and so on.
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>>44730730

Don't feed the trolls, anon. You're not going to convince a 3aboo that their retarded preconceptions are anything but that, and the conversation just ends up in the same old circular arguments. It sucks that some people are so amazingly stupid, but it can't be helped.
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>>44730775
Hey, nothing prevents you from taking utility powers and rituals that do just that.
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>>44730057
you're a terrible person and I hate you, but the ideas are good. You sonuvabitch.
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Can a tattoo be a holy symbol?
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I'm about to start a campaign with a group of friends and was hoping for some advice
How practical is it to play a spear wielding fighter?
And is multiclassing into warlord worthwhile?
I'm trying to figure out how to work with an old man fighter, and the veteran path from warlord is real tempting, but I also want to play a fighter to better represent experience with weapons and combat, and also to fill the defender slot.
The rest of the party is going to be a Dwarf Ranger, a Halfling Cleric, and a Rogue
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>>44731741
I don't think so. I mean, you could say you have the holy symbol tattoo'd on you, but it's kinda pointless because you don't need to have it at hand to cast spells, you only need magical/superior ones for their bonuses.

So, you could have a holy symbol tattoo, but it's not giving a benefit (unless there's some way to make a +x tattoo).

Or I'm remembering incorrectly, that works too.
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>>44731830
>How practical is it to play a spear wielding fighter?
Very.
>And is multiclassing into warlord worthwhile?
Yes, if you do it right and depending on what you want.
>I'm trying to figure out how to work with an old man fighter, and the veteran path from warlord is real tempting, but I also want to play a fighter to better represent experience with weapons and combat, and also to fill the defender slot.

Are you using the builder? Or are you just reading the PHB? Veteran isn't a great path, though it's not actively terrible. What you want could be done with either Warlord or fighter as your primary class, or possibly as a hybrid.
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>>44731857
My character is a monk who worships Bahamut, and the holy symbol tattoo as a giant silver dragon on his back is more fluffy.
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>>44731662

Thanks! I'm fully aware of how shameful and terrible the idea is, but it tickled my fancy and I decided to try and go all out on it.

I think I've got the features and most of the powers down, now, just need to figure out what would be significant and interesting enough for the level 10 utility option.
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>>44731956
Monk as in punchy monk, or monk as in divine guy?

Either way, the "problem" with tattoos is that they are not implements. But there's really no reason for your DM to not allow fluffing a symbol/focus as your tattoo, possibly at some price to account for not being able to separate you from it, if that's something that happens in his games.
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>>44732095
Centered Breath Monk.
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>>44731949
I've been reading through a copy of the phb trying to get an idea of what i want to do, but the guy who is gming hasn't said what version he wants to use, beyond 4e anyways, unless i'm mistaken and it didn't have updates

I haven't actually built the character yet because he wants to roll for stats and wants to be there when we do it, instead of just using standard array or some such.

The reason for the age thing is that the character concept started out as an old human fighter who treats everyone he meets like they're his grandchildren. The interest in the veteran path was entirely flavor based
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>>44731991
>>44730057

A little discussion elsewhere prompted an idea, but I'm not sure whether it's too good/good enough, hard to evaluate.

A Daily Utility that can be used on a long rest. You spend a Healing Surge, and every ally in your group gains Surge value temporary HP, lasting until the end of the next encounter you have, fluffed as you going out of your way to take care of them and ensure they're in top fighting condition.
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>>44732133
Yeah, then just tattoo it on you, you use your implements (ki focuses, etc.) to do your stuff anyway, and ki focus also has its own dedicated slot.

>>44732141
>I haven't actually built the character yet because he wants to roll for stats and wants to be there when we do it, instead of just using standard array or some such.

>Rolling for stats
>In 4e

That's... uh... that's a really bad idea.

Also, builder basically has all the stuff from all the official releases with errata included. In 4e you can go ahead and allow everything most of the time, nothing's really that broken (except maybe some later dragon magazine essentials hybrids).
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>>44732203
OK.


Also, not maid guy for some reason, I seem to be really lucky when rolling for stats.
The aforementioned monk has 14,12,18,14,11,10. Shame I roll less so in combat.
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>>44732203
that's how I feel about it myself, I personally like the standard arrays or point buy myself, but he's running it so he gets the last call.
He said something about fudging bad rolls to prevent overly weak characters though, so i'm not really sure why he wants to roll.
Where can I find the builder?
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>>44732254
You either make a DDI subscription for the online builder or go here:

https://rogue-elements.obsidianportal.com/wikis/offline-character-builder

for the offline builder.
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File: archer warlord.png (48 KB, 341x150) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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So is the Archer Warlord feature actually that good for ranged warlords? Assuming that you're willing to spend a feat to use a greatbow. I've never really encountered that much that makes use of ranged basic attacks.
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>>44732540
Nope, not that great. Maybe if you are like, in a party with another warlord and you wombo-combo stuff? Also for some powers like Vengeance is Mine, where you get to make a basic attack yourself.
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Anyone has good source for dragon magazines? I need #379
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>>44733319

I got a torrent with all of Dungeon and Dragon, you should be able to find it on the piracy provider of your choice.
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>>44733427
i have all the books but not magazines, thank you very much
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>>44730181
>>44730318
Not MaidAnon here, but another player in the same game. We were talking things over and doing some math, and adding +5 to your own skill check to Aid Another made me stop and think for a minute.

Aid Another has a base DC of 10 + 1/2 level in the check. But you also add 1/2 level to all of your own skill checks--so that and the add-on to the DC basically cancel each other out.

That means you'd have to roll a 10, assuming no other modifiers to the skill, to succeed. Even just adding a +2 bonus to ANY (note that word--it's pretty flexible) skill check you make to Aid Another means you're rolling an 8 every time, to give someone else up to +4, with no threat of a penalty for failure (at level 10).

So adding +2 to all skills for Aid Another means you basically have a 2/3 chance of success. Making it +5 ups that to an 80% chance. Obviously, if you are trained in the skill yourself, or if you have any positive ability mod for the skill, your chance of success will rise even further. +5 with being trained means you have NO chance to fail at Aid Another.

Would it be better practice, /4eg/, to leave some chance for failure, or hrrngh it as hard as we can?
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>>44733503
It's a standard action. Depending on class, it could mean you aren't doing anything else that turn. A standard action for +4 to a roll seems like a fair trade, it's probably less net effect than you'd have ad using an at-will.
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>>44733598
>>44733503
Don't forget that Aid Another, Aid Attack and Aid Defense are all different actions. Taking the theme in order to get +5 to Aid Another checks basically gives you training in whatever skill Aid Another buffs, stacking with actual training. I think it's fitting.

I mean, having +5 from training and +5 from an ability score already cancels out the DC 10 for Aid Another (removing ½ level from both bonus and DC), so it's not supposed to have a hard chance of failure anyway, provided you're a Fighter with training in Athletics, or a Wizard with training in Arcana.
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>>44733861
Good enough for me. I know that eventually Aid Another DOES become trivial (both to perform and possibly to receive).

Okay, next point.

We came up with some ideas for the utility gained at level 6. I'm going to post the text here.

1 - "This Just Won't Do" - Daily - Minor Action - Requirement: You must be inside the area of effect of a zone. Effect: You end the zone, regardless of whether or not it has a sustain option.

2 - "Tidying Up for the Master" - Daily - Minor Action - Requirement: You must be in difficult terrain. - Effect: Your square and all squares adjacent to you are no longer considered difficult terrain.

I had thought of making them rolled into one Utility power that you could choose between the options, but that might be a little TOO much for something gained from a theme.
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>>44734036

Maidanon here, I did have an alternate idea based on the animu image of the maid zipping around with a mop or similar, moving your speed and removing all terrain effects in those spaces, but the former two presented options probably make more sense. Any thoughts?
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