Okey whoever is recommending stoneman, don't. Hes absolutely shit. Every card from the 20 I ordered looks like it was printed on a home printer and the top cut with a scissor.
Are there actually any good vendors?
All purchasable counterfeits are pretty much garbage at this point. The only reason to bother with them is if you're too lazy to print them out yourself, but you end up paying several hundred times what it cost to print them.
Stoneman had some literal shills here, but once a few idiots actually bought the cards and revealed how half-assed the product was, it seems that those shills disapp-
Oh, you're back.
Here. Its really hard to capture with a camera, but almost all of my cards look like this
I bought from some random aliexpress chink last time but at least some of the cards he sent me were playable. They just look wrong, even trough double sleeving you catch the color and print issues. Some of them dont even fit into double sleeves.
I'm not a shill just because some people had some bad luck. Stoneman legitimately has the best looking fakes around, I have personally bought from seven different Chinamen before him. Everyone else sells shit that's either too thick or too blurry to ever fool anyone.
You should complain about these to him then, all of my copies were good enough to not even need to use the sleeve trick.
I can post the other ones too, the cavern is actually the only one that looks/feels like a real card, except is has the biggest miscut of them all.
Yeah I already wrote him.
I mean, the delivery was there insanely fast, china to europe is normally 16 to 20 days and it took the package maybe 4 days. Also he put in a lot of extra cards, but the important thing, the cards itself are just shit
I sold all my cards when i was 18 (mistake), and i bought 4 booster boxes in the last 2 months because some people i work with play it (im 26 now.)
Just pay the 100 for a box man you can make multiple decks out of it and its not wasted like counterfiet cards
like why are you paying money for fake shit instead of paying money for actual cards.
Guy i work with today was telling me he got 100 cards for 5$ at a local gaming place. No rares but 100 random commons and uncommons its easy to make a deck
Im playing for fun, but its not fun to pay 500$+ for a decent deck. This way im paying ~50$ and still have fun. Whats the problem, its not like fake cards play differently than normal ones
I buy both real and fake expensive cards actually. What else am I going to spend my paycheck on, a woman? Hahah. I already had a playset of real goyfs by the time I bought from Stoneman, but it helps to compare quality when you have a real version of the fake you're looking at.
Stop buying mtg product you mean
No reason to stop playing a great game simply because the distribution of the game pieces is a massive scam that is easily worked around with proxies and fakes
>buy real product for 100 bucks
>buy fake product for 95 dollars, and it looks like ass
This might come as a surprise to you but all the threads about fake cards and people recommending Stoneman were actually just shill threads. You fell for a not very elaborate ruse. That's what you get for giving shit people money to give you shit fake cards. You should have spent your money elsewhere.
not 100% true.
i bought "proxies" and they turned out good. they werent perfect, and some you could tell were fakes, but i had no issue letting the players know that i proxies.
none of them cared because i only go up to my LGS for free play night. i dont think trying to go into a FNM or something would be a great idea unless your store allows proxies (but i usually only see proxies allowed for vintage)
>not living in glorious Europe with no big stores controlling the secondary MtG market
>tfw just buying from other players online most of the time
Bretty gud. Fuck fake cards an the shit people who benefit from them.
theres no way to play MTG unless you have a lot of extra money to spend, or youre okay with building decks from piles of random cards, or counterfeits. I like the game, but its just not worth it at all for me anymore. Plus 2/3 of players are super competitive assholes that cant have fun unless they win every single game
These are the proxies I bought approximately a year ago.
These are the shit ones. You can play Where's Waldo and find the problems. Some of the lands have the Tarmogoyf spacing issue too.
However, it also needs to be said that the rest, namely every other card you can imagine were more or less immaculate. There was no way you could tell it was fake card when it was sleeved.
The Splinter Twin is perfect with absolutely no problems. The over-smoothness of the card obviously cannot be felt while inside a sleeve.
I cannot speak of the quality of the cards today. It would be too bad if they went to shit because with one revision in Photoshop we would have had the perfect product.
Yes, it is disappointing.
But then you remind yourself that you've been playing with over $10,000 of other cards (not using these cards to avoid getting caught) for the price of $250.
Again, I have no idea what the quality is like now. Maybe Wizards successfully ruined the distribution of the good shit. Maybe those stupid fucking White Knights on Reddit should have realized there was a fucking problem with card pricing and counterfeits offered a pro-consumer solution that Wizards wasn't making any goddamn effort to solve.
Differentfag. Ordered from Stone Man in early December. Most of the cards are painfully obvious fakes.
The only decent ones are Arid Mesa, Splinter Twin, Grove of the Burnwillows, Thoughtseize THS, Overgrown Tomb RTR and MAYBE Liliana of the Veil. Don't buy from him
Just bought this from a chink at aliexpress.
What can I expect?
I paid $8.60 btw not its current price.
I had a different set
Goblin Guide has its rarity fixed
Tarmo has the text spacing issue fixed
Lily still hasn't been fixed (white in the set symbol)
Most of the onslaught fetches will pass
The shocklands need to be played more, their colors aren't faded enough
Arid Mesa and Marsh Flats are good, the rest are bad
>S c a l d i n g T a r n
>C r y p t i c C o m m a n d
TNN is only playable in proxy formats, so no big deal
Jace is obvious
Flusterstorm is perfect, so I broke even.
Eidolon and Goryo's Vengence are FUCKED
Both Theros and OG Thoughtseize are shit
Oldamog will pass, but Cozy and Emma are obvious
The inconsistent quality is what pisses me off. Still got well over $60 in passable quality so I'm okay. The rest goes into a cube and casual decks, so it's not going to complete waste
Nah it was some sale.
Still wondering about the QUALITY of the cards that I'll be getting, and looking at this thread it will be barely passable unless you start finding the errors.
I wish the people who had the counterfeits had a means of revealing themselves to other people with counterfeits so we can trade our "shit" cards.
I'd happily trade you passable Thoughtseizes for your shit Scalding Tarns.
All of my cards from Stoneman were top quality and pass in the tournaments I've played them in. Yeah, yeah, some people will call me a "shill," but my advice is to spend the ~$10 to buy a few and make the decision for yourself. Worse comes to worse, you're out $10, but if they're good (which they are) then you'll have great cards for the low price of $10. Try it.
The problem with Stoneman is that he was just one supplier, prominent on 4chan. Everyone selling sold the same stuff, these preconstructed packs of 56 cards. I could not find the source of these cards, probably because I couldn't understand their shitty English and I can't read Chinese. If I had the source I would have told them what to improve, just so we can get perfect shit - literally telling them the perfect purity of coke that will sell best on the market.
There were people offering customer sets of entirely custom 56 cards, which I purchased too. These cards were "perfect" but they were basically medium-resolution images printed on matte playing card stock. They had the issue of everything looking washed out and bolder text and you can easily tell they were fake just by reading the artist line. However, from across the table there was no telling.
I can't believe people back then were complaining about Stoneman (and others') preconstructed sets. They were pretty fucking real looking. Now he and the others are gone, selling some sub-par quality shit.
The people who bought in initially got the good shit. I know because I'm one of them. I'm so sorry that some of you lost out on the opportunity. It could just as easily exploded in my face and I lost $50 for a set. But I think it was a safe bet, Stoneman was shilling right here the whole time; his shill was posting pictures and confirming the problems other people were having and when I received them they matched my issues. His shill was one thing, fully transparent, which in many ways didn't make him a shill at all.
I blame the community on this one. They condemned the electric car option that would galvanize Wizards to fix their shit. And now, look, prices are as bad as ever. Grove of the Burnwillows spiked to $50 due to Living End and Tron using it when I bought my fakes; now it's $100 fucking dollars.
All I know is that I've purchased my counterfeits from Stoneman when they were good (mostly fetchlands and other high-end Modern stuff), and I've already traded/sold it away for profit. I made out like a bandit, and that's really all I care about. After all, if no one is able to tell the difference between a fake and a real card, then is the "fake" really fake?
Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. :D
I do not condone selling the fakes to people.
I would not put my reputation on the line by trading/selling these fakes; but given the circumstances, you're right, if nobody knows they're fake they will just be like any other card. You essentially sold a substitute product at the going market rate as far as I'm concerned because it's just a fucking piece of paper.
When this game's eternal formats die due to price barriers either Wizards will throw players a lifeline or people will still be moaning about meaningless shit like lore or "why isn't Snapcaster a red card."
>I would not put my reputation on the line by trading/selling these fakes
I don't put my reputation on the line. I go to large GP events and have one of my cute female friends who plays the game casually go and trade/sell the cards. That way, if they ever got caught (which they haven't), the plan is for them to claim they traded for the card themselves a few weeks ago at their LGS and start crying. Basically, it's the "sobbing cute vulnerable girl" tactic. No one's going to accuse to qt3.14 nerd girl who's sobbing about getting ripped off herself. :D
I got this the other day for my cube at home
The cards are much lighter than their real counterparts, and a lot thinner. They will pass double sleeved for certain cards from across the table, but not along side the real ones or up close.
I ordered a legacy set a while ago. It's pretty good to be honest. The cards have that glossy feeling, but they look good.
Double sleeved you really can't tell. I was able to sell some of the pieces off over craigslist. Just handed it to them double sleeved and in a top loader with tape on it. They never bothered to take it out and check it.
A couple eventually realized, but I was long gone by then.
>and I've already traded/sold it away for profit. I made out like a bandit, and that's really all I care about
Here's hoping karma is a thing and you get what's coming to you.
They are called "human proxies" btw. I have a network of acquaintences whom i cut in on selling fakes.
Made about $3500 so far.
>sell cards for cheap
>buyer thinks they are ripping me off
>in reality I'm ripping them off
>they are a victim of their own greed.
>being human garbage
This is why I make my own proxies for expensive cards, just too many morally bankrupt faggots floating around.
>You know the world is literally kill or be killed
You and I both know most people do have moral fiber, anon. If you want to revel in being shitty person, it's your life, but don't try and act like that's in any way the norm.
Are you saying moral as in like... Every act of good and bad? If so, then OK. I wouldn't kill a child. Or kick a cat.
When it comes to making easy money from people who think they are ripping me off, I have no qualms.
So why can't the Chinese get their shit together and print actual good counterfeits that don't suffer from mistakes or other glaring issues?
>When it comes to making easy money from people who think they are ripping me off, I have no qualms
You're purposely misleading people for your own gain, which makes you a cunt. You can try and justify it however you like, but it's still immoral. No, I don't think that puts you on the same level as a pedophile or a murderer, but it still makes you a shitty person.
So what is the best place to buy counterfeits/proxies? I'd like to buy into Modern/pimp out some EDH decks but I'd really prefer not to support an evil and greedy company just to play a fun game. Stone Man's look good in videos/photos, but are they actually bad? Is that guy mentioned higher up in the thread better? I honestly thought his didn't look too good.
They're covering their ass. It's not forgery if you print Benjamins with mustaches.
That, bribes and having 2 billion soldiers are the three reasons China's counterfeiting industry is invulnerable.
Found on Reddit.
I'm starting to wonder if legal relationships is why "unofficial" video game tournaments never became a big thing before streaming existed.
Can you be specific about which set you got?
Was it a Modern, Vintage, or Legacy set? If it was a Modern was it the remix or "regular" Modern?
Because I've bought from him a lot a long while back. Do the cards have cutting issues like people have said? Has the text spacing actually gotten worse?
I got some great stuff from SM. I'll take some pictures to post the next time we have one of these threads. Seriously, there were only a few obvious duds. Top, Jitte, Vampiric Tutor and 40 dual lands all look fucking great. I ordered 2 Vintage packs and 2 Legacy packs for around $200 last summer and only about 1/4 were duds.
I'm glad you posted but I was addressing that poster specifically. I ordered cards at the same time you did and they had the same failure rate as you claimed, which means they were pretty fucking good.
I want to hear about the experience of the poster who bought cards just a month ago. I need to know specifically what aspect of the quality has gone to shit or if people are just dealing with minor issues like you and I have dealt with.
I need a Vintage set.
>Whats the problem
Counterfeit is a crime. Might be a felony, actually. Not sure, I'm not American.
But as long as everyone you're playing with are aware that you're using expensive proxies
because you're an asshat who don't know how to work a printerI assume it's ok. Just don't bring them to sanctioned tournaments and don't try to sell them as the real deal.
Any good sources/how to to printing your own cards? or reusing old cards as a base?
I'm not interested in selling proxies, I'm interested in making Personal cards
The only thing you'd need to change to do non-foils is instead of using foils from the sets he suggested use foils from MM15. Just quickly soak a corner in acetone, and then slowly peel the foil off the card. You're left with a completely blank faced magic card. Then just follow all his other steps.
No problem. If you don't have the resources to follow that video, here is a budget option.
You just make the image file you want to use into an adobe acrobat file, put it on a USB stick, and bring it to any printing shop near you.
Tell them you want it on transparency paper and you should be set.
He shows in the video how to assemble the proxy using this method. It's basically the same, but instead of the printing paper already being sticky you have to put glue on yourself.
It's honestly not worth the time and effort from scratch.
Here. MM15 foils for $0.19 each. http://shop.tcgplayer.com/magic/modern-masters-2015/cloud-elemental
Acetone is like, $8 for a big bottle. Would last you a long ass time.
The printing and transparency paper are the real costs. Assuming a standard sheet of transparency paper, which holds 8 cards, costs $2.30 at your local print store.
You're looking at a single equation of card cost + printing cost + acetone cost. And we'll add shipping to the card cost. Going to guess you can deface about 200 foils with a 16oz bottle of acetone.
$0.21 + $0.29 + $0.04 is your total card cost for making a nonfoil proxy.
It equals $0.54.
And I just looked, and it's the exact same cost for foil proxies as well. Cause you can do the deinking thing on DTK foils.
TL;DR - It's cheaper to just deface/deink foils on your own than try to make your own cards.
Thanks for the further info
I was actually thinking of non rectangular/standard playing cards
you know, the regular,
Möbius strips, and other non euclidean geometry
just needed a card altering primer
There is hope
I have a seller who is outta some Asian country and their product is amazing
foreign copies are great here's a link if anybodies interested to look at them
the feel to them is shit and some of them have some bad miscuts but, it's an easy fix with an exacto knife
I got the old batch from like six months ago, 4 of the Modern Set and 4 of the Legacy set. The card pool he offered was different, but in the meantime I've played in Modern and Legacy Opens, GPTs, FNMs and other events without anyone batting an eye. I can make any deck in Modern or Legacy and often do. I can't speak for the quality of the new batch, but my friend got a playset of Modern ones and most of them are great. Colonnades are obviously unsleeved but double-sleeved look identical to my "real" ones. Heritage Druid, Remand and Serum Visions are noticeably off due to alignment and colors (the Heritage Druid's mana symbols are too bright, for one), Batterskull's type line is a little low but not super noticeable. Cabal Therapy and Dark Depths came in the set (for some bizarre reason) and are both perfect looking. The gloss on the new batch is way less noticeable than on my batches, that's for sure, but mine went away with play.
tl;dr six months ago I spent 400 on every Legacy and Modern staple, and they all look flawless and have passed scrutiny countless times, but going off my friend's batch I don't know if I'd drop that same kind of dosh on the current stuff. The new stuff has a lot of fine, passable fakes, but the errors are much more noticeable, whereas the old stuff I got had more cards with super subtle errors and therefore overall more passable.
>The only thing you'd need to change to do non-foils is instead of using foils from the sets he suggested use foils from MM15. Just quickly soak a corner in acetone, and then slowly peel the foil off the card. You're left with a completely blank faced magic card. Then just follow all his other steps.
Completely blank meaning white, nonfoil.
This guy does it alright.
Though you can just dip the edge in acetone and then catch the edge with your fingertip and peel from there.
The acetone will separate the foiled printing from the white card stock. Then you just have to sort of peel it off. Now keep in mind this only works with certain sets like Modern Masters 2015. They had an exceptionally shit foiling process, which is why you can take the entire face off. Fairly easily.
>I have personally bought from seven different Chinamen before him. Everyone else sells shit that's either too thick or too blurry to ever fool anyone.
You're either a liar or an idiot then. I did like 20 minutes of research last summer when I was looking for good fakes and found 2 Chinese companies that both sold excellent fakes.
Nice job exposing your ignorance though.
For anyone wondering, one has a name that is half American and half Chinese while the other one is worldly and somewhat celestial.
go-guys, don't buy these shit quality proxies from rockboy! Not only is it bad and wrong and literally stealing, they're shit anyway
Always buy your magic cards from us- I mean a reputable and friendly merchant like Star City Games!
There are really good counterfeiters out there, ones that you pretty much need a loupe to tell they are producing fakes. However, they also are using similar machines to the ones that are used to print the originals and actually do some quality control on their print runs.
No, >>44708134 is an obvious fake, and not just because of the border.
>legit booster boxes
Kill yourself you mongoloid.
People who're buying fakes aren't the kind of retards who're wasting money on the booster lottery. People want to play eternal formats without spending 400 dollars on a playset of an uncommon counterspell that isn't even on the reserve list
>You know the world is literally kill or be killed.
>literally being Flowey
What's the matter Anon, did your mother not love you enough?
Okey, since everyone is posting I'll post my stuff here too.
Everything slightly varies tho.
This might be really just a product issue. (Im OP), almost all of the cards where heavily miscut at the top. I'll rate them without that.
Shocks - Passable in sleeves, otherwise too washed out and not enough dpi
Paths - Perfectly passable, except not enough dpi
Breeding Pool & Cavern - Good
Damnation - Didnt even order that one. Looks really good, altough still not sellable (Im not selling them obviously, just as an grading)
Goblin Guide - Absolutely terrible. One was ok with sleeves, the other one is way too red.
Some random chink from aliexpress:
The only thing stoneman had better was the feeling. The stoneman cards felt almost perfect, these ones not so much, you can definetly tell the difference.
Blood Moon - Perfect. Looks and feels exactly like a real one (the only one that felt good)
Bitterblossom - Looks good, but a bit too washed out
Spellskite - Also almost perfect, the phyrexian symbol was a tiny tiny bit washed out, everything else was good
Pact of Negation - Jesus. These were really washed out, like the blue was almost white. Also one of them had a big white streak on the bag, from printing not from damage
Weird, I just looked in my orders and found this:
Altough I remember ordering a lot cheaper and from a different seller, I dunno.
But I also think almost everyone is the same, I remember researching a bit and almost everyone would send me the same list of cards that can get printed
whats the best retailer youve purchased from?
this question goes for everyone in the thread really.
im looking at http://www.aliexpress.com/item/72pcs-factory-made-proxy-mtg-cards-lion-recommended-customized-m15-dual-lands-power-9-blue-white/32456302230.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_2%2Csearchweb201644_4_10001_10002_10005_10006_10003_10004_62%2Csearchweb201560_1%2Csearchweb1451318400_6148&spm=2114.031010208.3.12.mGxIl9 right now because some of the people in this thread said black core is the way to go. any experience with this seller?
Dont know that one, he has good ratings so I dont think hes complete shit. You can also try to contact them via skype to get only one or two cards shipped to see how their quality is. And yes, always order black core.
Why would you want such good fakes for tabletop casual OP? You do only want to play casual, right? That's what lots keen on counterfeits say, they want a pile of Jaces and Goyfs for casual, not tournaments or trying to palm them off in trades for genuine cards. You wouldn't be trying to do that would you OP?
Because I'm not held down by your social weaknesses means my mom didnt love me?
Just taking advantage of a situation.
If people knew they would get away with something, I guarentee your place would have been broken into 100 times over. Mine to.
People will notice. I don't own the originals but I can tell all three of these are fake (it's not as noticeable on a picture, you just have to trust me).
Karn is really really dark. Grove will likely pass if nobody bothers checking your cards though.
Nope. And honestly you should have bought them while they were cheap lol. It has been 20 for quite some time.
I only ordered the four Mixed Sets because I missed the boat on enemy fetchlands. And they're overall not good.
>implying not immediately surrendering to the most base of instinctual self-gratification is a weakness
You do realize that if you were right, being a dipshit would be the default, because it's the easiest option?
If you're blind to everything but money it's probably because you're a materialistic faggot with a mediocre life who'll never amount to anything.
it certainly isn't a strength to take the easy way out.
> there's currently a shitstorm raging on social media because WotC thought it would be a good idea to completely forbid proxies in WPN stores, even for unsanctioned events and fucking casual play
> if stores don't comply, they revoke the WPN rights, which means no more cheap product
> cards with sharpies are "counterfeits" according to Wizards, completely going against the official definition by law
>Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. As we discussed we received information concerning some questionable or undesirable activity that occurred at your store. We understand many of these issues stem from misconceptions or miscommunications and I have summarized what we discussed below.
>Magic events (sanctioned and unsanctioned) can only allow genuine Magic: The Gathering cards.
>Proxy cards are substitute cards created solely by judges in sanctioned tournaments pursuant to the official tournament rules. These substitutes are allowed when authorized game cards become unplayable during a sanctioned tournament because of damage or excessive wear.
>Counterfeit cards are copies or reproductions of actual Wizards trading cards, whether or not they are identified as non-genuine. The creation and distribution of counterfeits violate United States and international copyright laws and negatively affects the integrity of Wizards’ trading card games. Counterfeits are strictly prohibited, even for personal, non-commercial use.
The relevant sections of the email, from the Facebook of the store in question.
Trick Jarrett made an official statement on the matter, which is pretty ill-received:
> Hey folks, I checked into this and here’s what I can tell you:
> First is an important clarification: Proxy cards are substitute cards created solely by judges in sanctioned tournaments. These substitutes are allowed when authorized game cards become unplayable during a sanctioned tournament because of damage or excessive wear. Unauthorized reproductions of our game are a type of counterfeit, and we want business partners to help us in discouraging counterfeit Magic.
> I know that feels crazy, that we regard marker on a card as a counterfeit, but remove the visual accuracy from the judgment – they serve identical purposes when it comes to game play.
> Counterfeit cards are prohibited in sanctioned events, sounds like most people are on board with that. And based on Wizards’ Code of Conduct, we have started to ask stores not to organize unsanctioned events with counterfeit cards. And to be clear, no one we’ve communicated with recently has been suspended or punished as far as I know. We’ve talked to some stores on the difference between counterfeit and proxy cards, and are asking WPN to stores to work with us in protecting our intellectual property.
> Wizards wants partners in the WPN to make sure stores are welcoming environments, not use our characters in offensive images, and any number of actions that protect Magic experiences. We don’t condone counterfeit cards, and we expect stores to respect that. WPN stores are our partners and we expect them to help us protect our intellectual property.
> We know players love Magic and love playing its variety of formats, including Vintage and Legacy. Some formats are easier to get into than others and these two are hard.
I thought some of the Moxen looked like dogshit until I looked up actual Moxen and realized they look like dogshit to begin with.
Wizards has always forbid proxies at WPN stores. It's not new news. People having a shitstorm are just ignorant fucks although some stores have only just been given warnings against hosting unsanctioned proxy tournaments, which brought this whole thing up.
But instead of being mature adults about it and talking to Wizards about it these stores had to go have a crybaby circle jerk on Reddit, and that's not just shitting on Reddit, that's the general quality of their discussions - crying about meaningless shit while the real problems go ignored. Look at the fucking posts, they are so fucking close to ripping a hole into the fact that cards are too fucking expensive but they aren't outright saying it.
This would never have been a problem if people did two things:
a) not fucking advertising you are hosting a proxy tournament on your goddamn store website/facebook
b) not reporting your store to Wizards like a snitch because you get all bitchy about people having fun
There are two issues in Magic: issues that prevent people from enjoying the game in a convenient manner and profitable to the store (fair cost barrier to entry, software stability, card availability) and issues that are not the above. We waste so much fucking time talking about shit that doesn't get more players playing the game.
This whole goddamn thing would be not an issue if everyone just silently agreed with Wizards and just continued hosting this proxy tournaments anyways.
It begins... This is the happening to kill WotC.
> We know players love Magic and love playing its variety of formats, including Vintage and Legacy. Some formats are easier to get into than others and these two are hard.
This just feels like Jarrett is thumbing his nose at us.
No it won't. Nothing will kill Magic. Do you have any idea what portion of the player base as well as new players have no fucking clue about anything happening in Magic? I mean just no idea that new sets come out until they actually step into a store?
I'm just going to throw a figure out there based on what has been said in conversations with store owners and say that 75% of players don't know who the fuck Mark Rosewater or Richard Garfield is.
This whole fiasco is just another thing regulated to the Internet. Kitchen table players are blissfully unaware.
Then it's time to make them aware... expose the pro players as the shills they are. Kill WOTC's rep by having stores suddenly reducing gaming opportunities and when people wonder why Magic's gotten boring, point them to this...
This is gold waiting to be mined!
He's not doing anything malicious. He's doing two things:
- he is acknowledging that he is aware there's a problem with accessibility of well loved formats
- without offering a solution to that statement he is making no promises that the company will make an effort to improve accessibility to those formats
A statement structured like that means he is doing his job perfectly. He isn't admitting there is a problem ("hard" is not a problem) and therefore there is no problem to demand a solution or effort on their part.
I just said they don't give a fuck. They don't care who the pros are, they don't care about what Wizards does, and they certainly don't find the game boring. They are ecstatic as fuck when they see new shit on the shelves, that's all they want. You will not convince them to care about bigger issues than that, because if they gave a fuck, they wouldn't be buying their Magic at a place like Target or Walmart who doesn't have to host anything to be able to stock product whereas stores have to bend over backwards just for the privilege of wholesale sealed product prices.
I'm not faulting kitchen table players. Ignorance is bliss. You can literally kill every person who shows up any event more competitive than a prerelease (FNM or higher) and most brick and mortar store owners will probably see very little affecting their bottom line, in fact they'd probably be thrilled to not have to waste the labor sorting cards and hosting events for peanut fees when their kitchen table crew continues to buy a couple boxes every couple months.
Proxy tournaments are the community's attempt to make Legacy accessible specifically because Wizards has created a serious problem with regards to barrier to entry and card availability through its reprinting policy. Wizards coming after even those unsanctioned events without addressing the problems they've created that prompted proxy tournaments in the first place is just one more case of the company being simultaneously incompetent and belligerent.
Legacy is dead because Wizards has done everything within its power to kill it.
Sorry, he is acknowledging that it is "hard". But he isn't acknowledging there is a problem.
Admitting there's a problem demands some authority find a solution. But when it is merely "difficult" or "hard" then that's like saying not being able to leave post-secondary education without crippling debt is "challenging".
The moment you admit there's a problem it's on your ass to fix it. Remember that when you listen to politicians in power - it's never a "problem" it's a "challenge". The politicians in opposition only see "problems" and never appear to understand that things are challenging. Some things are legitimately challenging and it would be ethically questionable to ease up on the difficulty - firefighter physical exams are a great example. Some things aren't legitimately problems like artwork of Garruk choking a bitch who just shot poison through his body.
I would say Legacy is dead because of mostly Wizards' inaction.
The point was that it makes it look like they are doing something and most people are too stupid to realize it has no impact whilst the Reserve List is still in place. It's like spitting into the cup of a thirsty man and we're such slaves to the game that we can't help but feel happy that we opened a $200 Expedition that is more or less useless to play with.
I agree, and actually, wouldn't it be weirder to see a Modern/Legacy player NOT double sleeving their deck? If you're gonna play with a stack of cardboard pieces worth $20-$200 each, wouldn't you spend an extra 10 or so dollars and a little extra time to ensure they didn't get ruined by outside forces or degrade as quickly? Speaking of degradation, why are MTG cards made of such shitty cardboard? You literally touch or drop one once, and suddenly it's all scuffed and dinged and peeling at the edges, while Yugioh cards stand up to pretty much anything and FoW cards are practically made of plastic.>>44736252
>You literally touch or drop one once, and suddenly it's all scuffed and dinged and peeling at the edges, while Yugioh cards stand up to pretty much anything
I assume you don't agree with me, but I have years of evidence from playing both games.
>crack MTG pack
>pull cool card, but since I have big ass hands I dinged a corner
>drop card onto table and pick it up
>it's scuffed and fucked on edges
Yugioh never does this shit.
>Spend literally 35 $ in a deck
>Spend cents on cool cards sometimes
>Play kitchen magic casually
>Have tons of fun
>Laugh at retards pouring their wallets into WotC's asshole as they try desperately to find a way to stop wasting their money in cardboard which will be worthless when this game inevitably crashes due to Wizards' poor management and sheer greed.
You wanna see good quality cards, kid? Find one of these. They're from the Bandai version of YuGiOh! made in the late nineties. I have a fairly large collection of them, including the Blue-Eyes White Dragon (which is foil, and by the way, even their foils are superior looking) and they look and feel better than any card made since.
It's not difficult to make good quality cards, most companies just don't bother.
>buy high quality counterfeits
>get to play competitive decks and save money
>laugh at retards resigned to either playing casual kitchen table jank or spending $1000 or more for a deck of cards
This one seems decent ? A lot of good reviews and 500+ sells.
YGO card are pretty crap. i had the first pegasus intro deck long time ago and low the card looks so crappy and old.
FoW is pretty new in the market,but the card have better quality that YGO. We'll have to wait to see how durable are they.
Last year a friend of mine got their fake cards from a guy in alibaba. He said before you could only buy the cards you needed but now they are selling the cards in packs of modern/legacy cards and you cant ask for only the ones you want.
How true is that?
I amjust asking since I dont have info about where to buy fake cards. He got some cards last year and they look pretty decent. Hes even participating on sanctioned event with them. He wasnt caught (for now) and since hes getting away with it, I'd like to try it too now that I dont give a shit if my dci gets banned. Wizards dont deserve my money.
I don't think you'll get banned.
If you get caught just deny and if it's really obvious cards are fake just say
"i bought this cards online for a lot, guess i just got scammed :( "
Gathering House have good reviews on alie too. Don't know what it's really worth for attending tournament without getting busted will buy a couple of cards from him (Liliana and Goyfs)
As someone who used to do this sort of thing a lot, it is really, really not worth the effort. It's a huge bitch to de-ink foils and cut out transparencies. 540? oh god, no no no no.
They don't even look that great, and I spent years developing a technique.
nice, you took sets or singles card lots ?
What is the difference between :
Taking a 60 cards lots
Taking 60 singles cards ?
Also how does it works, I place my command and they contact me for the list ? Or i have to contact them before ?
We since now they ruled writing Underground Sea in an Island is the same as buying high end chinese fakes for them we can forget about the "just print it in your inkjet" excuse.
Morality is dead, now it's just SCG shills vs Chinaman shills and I hope Chinaman wins because I didn't built my Legacy decks not to have anyone to play them with because a bunch of retards confused a product sold at wal mart with wal street.
The point was they know that BFZ/OGW are crap sets with nothing much going for them, so they made expeditions to drum up some more business.
They wouldn't have to do marketing ploys if they made good sets.
Taking a lot is more cheaper, but the cards are a list fixed. taking singles is more expensive but you only get wht you want
Ask the guy for the list, then make the buy.if you buy singles, you make the list of cards that you want and put it on a message when you pay
I don't think BFZ is a bad set. I just think that Khans and Fates need to rotate out. They may never be anything special in modern, but they're still pretty good standard.
That being said, it's not fun to draft. It's literally Eldrazzi or Ally, and the mana costs are ridiculous for 40 card decks.
I fully support this bullshit now because WotC fucked me over.
I used to be able to play vintage once every three weeks at the LGS proxi tournaments, now I only get to play once a year in BoM.
Wish I could actually help make and distrubute this shit so that the retard investors die of a stroke and we can go back to playing.
I used to dislike the idea of fakes, but the recent printing of expeditions shows me exactly how wizards feels about their pack lottery and how little they care about secondary market pricing. So now Im fine with the fakes
If there is some chinamen reading this, i would like to know: are you going to do Expeditions lands? Khans of tarkir fetches? those of onslaught are terrible. or at least the new force of will, not that old horrible card
Yeah, if Wizards would show even the slightest bit that they actually care about their customers access to the game and not just how they can milk even more money out of it and pander to the secondary market, I might be inclined to keep giving them my money. But they don't, so chinaman fakes it is.
The point of the fakes is to lower the barrier of entry. You don't need the fancy versions of the cards to play the game. If you want to bling out your deck, you're welcome to blow your money on expeditions and other premium shit.
If your just playing kitchen table, buying legit is the worst possible value you could get.
Found the cheapest chinamen i could that still printed the cards correctly, ordered an entire 700 card, power-9 + tons of legendary staples cube, for the price of like 2 booster boxes split between my friends. The cards were badly cut and the colors were a little off, but slap a sleeve on it and nobody cares. Now we play at least 3 cube drafts every time we get together and its been litterally the best value ive ever gotten for MtG.
I've learned to just not listen to anything /tg/ has to say about whether or not counterfeits are good or not, OP. I've literally posted cards that I unpacked myself in these threads and I still get a couple people telling me they look fake because of the thread topic. Just pick a random Chinaman and go for it, it's impossible to see if a seller is good or not without buying from them yourself.
I ordered from Ali Zheng and the quality was fairly good, if anyone is wondering. Almost impossible to tell the difference when double sleeved, but like all chinamen counterfeits, some were still off. 8/10 would buy again
Based Canadian Crack Card Shill here
Will upload some pics. I'll let you know if cards are miscut and price accordingly. Mention your from TG if you want discount.
Not sure if link will work:
For anons ordering off Chinaman my best advice is to learn the difference between "core" colours before ordering anything.
I'll check thread letter and answer questions if anyone got any.
>TNN is only playable in proxy formats
>You know the world is literally kill or be killed. Nobody will be at your eulogy saying "anon had great morals" nobody gives a fuck.
>nobody gives a fuck
People give a fuck and will go out of their way to penalize you for your lack of ethics. If you don't know this, you're in for a hell of a ride.
No, you missed the question. Why are you buying fake cards? I know magic has been an expensive hobby for years and people have done nothing but encourage that but why are you still striving to keep up with the hobby on a high level when you are unable to support your own hobby. It seems foolish to me that you guys are focusing so much time and effort to try to keep up with a hobby you can't afford
you can still play with the same cards you originally purchased.
Hope you're not playing some Game Workshop miniatures or else what you said is just ridiculous since this motherfuckers are even more greedy than Jews of the Coast
I still have an eldar army I built over the last 11 years and I play other smaller games but the reason for purchasing fakes is because "they are jewing us" and you can't afford to keep up with your game. Not to play with valuable copies you own but to play with them like official cards. If you can't afford you hobby either take a more casual approach to the game or do something to allow you to afford the game. It's easy. You energy can be more useful elsewhere
>in an effort to protect secondary market prices, Wizards announces proxies are just as bad as counterfeits
>with Wizards protecting secondary market prices, they continue to rise to where casual and lower level players can't afford them
>since proxies are just as bad as counterfeits now, there's no reason to not simply use counterfeits for whatever you were using proxies for before, since they're basically just proxies you can pass off as the real thing at a fraction of the cost
>counterfeits are more appealing now than ever
That's our Wizards!