>"mee-lee" >"mar-kwiss" >"litch"

OP, stop being a faggot and making the same fucking thread over and over again.

What the fuck is a whyerm?

>>44699398
>"mee-lee"
Correct this is wrong.
>"mar-kwiss"
What the fuck is this even supposed to be? Marquis?
>"litch"
How else do you pronounce it?
>"teefling"
See above. "Tie-fling"?
>"ass-imar"
I mean, it's a very slight difference from the correct pronunciation.
>"why-erm"
I agree.

My biggest one is people saying "Side-Real" when they say sidereal.

How do you pronounce Tiefling anyway? Is it like 'strife'? Because that's how I do it.

>>44699398
What-erm?

>>44699467
Google it, you fucking nigger.

It's called dialect you sperg.

>>44699467
Well, that's certainly wrong. But it's a made up word so knock yourself out.

>"litch"
how you actually pronounce lich, a real english word.

>"mar-kwiss"
correct pronounciation of marquess, the proper anglicization of marquis. don't see the problem here.

>"why-erm"
the fuck even is this?

But lich is pronounced like that.....

>>44699486
Meelee is not dialect, it is wrong.

>>44699522
>marquess
Literally never heard of that word before.

>>44699522
>>44699476
>>44699441
Wyrm.

>>44699522
Wyrm?

>>44699528
Ne one has ever said mee-lee though, so the only possibility is 2nd language or extreme dialect (like deeper south than creole).

>>44699564
>no one has ever said mee-lee
I've heard it plenty.

But Tiefling comes from the german word tief, meaning deep and pronounced "teef"

>>44699398
>aww-tizum

>>44699551
>>44699558
ah right, I forget that americans don't pronounce wh's

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>>44699551
>>44699558
>anyone pronouncing "wyrm" as "why-erm"

>>44699637
>>44699606
Is it "wehrm"? Or "weerm"?

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>>44699462
>he doesn't pronounce it "lychee" just to fuck with the Dead

>>44699667
Wurm or just worm.

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>>44699467
>How do you pronounce Tiefling anyway?
Teef-ling, according to the Planescape Audio CD that came bundled with A Player's Primer to the Outlands.

>>44699577
Good for you, non-existent person.

>>44699693
Oh, cool. It's more simple than I thought.

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>Dr-oh

>>44699597
This.

https://translate.google.com/#en/de/tiefling

>>44699522
lick

>>44699860
>https://translate.google.com/#en/de/tiefling
>listen to english version
>"Tee-effling"

>>44700004
That's why you should listen to the German version, as it is a German word.

Tiefling means "Deep one" or "One being characterised by the deep". The latter being the more literal meaning. German is a weird language.

>>44699398
>why-erm
You mean a Wyvern?

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>>44699704

>>44699803
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94MK2JQIgFs

>>44699398
Hey man, if I can't say the litch is mealy, how'm I supposed to explain why the Whyerm's angry?

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>>44700256

>>44699398
I can't seem to stop pronouncing "Oh-Pee" as "ˈfaɡət"

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>sah-wag-in

>>44701805
I pronounce it like the speaker from Eberron ddo.

>>44699564
> deeper south than creole
So, Hell?

>>44699995
>leech
As in something that leeches life out of things around it.

>>44699577
Where? Closest I've ever heard to that pronunciation was from an Italian dude I was in a Skype game with who pronounced it "meh-lee".

>>44701805
I pronounce it
>Sa-Whay-Gin
Like Hank Hill was saying it.

>>44702161
I hear me-ley all the time.

>>44701992
That's not even where the term "lich" in fantasy comes from. It's an english word that has nothing to do with "leeching." look it up

>>44699398
>tee jee
>truh dish in ull gaym s
>>>/red dit/

>>44701805
saw-hue-ah-gen

Like this guy>>44701844
Just use what the narrator from ddo said.

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>>44699398

"Litch" is correct. Pic related.

>>44701805 For some reason I'm always inclined to go with
>saw-hog-in

>>44701805

This one is a fag word. It looks Irish, which would see it pronounced "su-wha-heen", but it's actually a made up nonsense word that it's inventor pronounced "sa-haw-gin".

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>"Oh-Pee"
>"Ih-Zuh"
>"A-Yuh"
>"Fah-Gut"

>>44701805
I just say "fishman", because I don't want to get it wrong but I can't be arsed to get it right.

>>44699667
Wyrm is the later spelling of Wurm. So it's just Wurm.

>>44704113
Or, like someone who speaks Spanish.

Welcome to the thread where we all pretend english is a pure language.

While we are at it. Remember to take notes on those fantasy words nobody but /lit/ and /tg/ would ever even hear about, if it wasnt for Lord of the rings.

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>"Níðhöggr"
>"Yggdrasil"
>"Jörmungandr"
>"Urðarbrunnr"

>>44704259
>>44704259

"Sahaugin" is not a Latin word. It looks a little like "Sluagh", which is a type of aquatic faery in Ireland, but is apparently "original" to D&D.

>>44704354
But the way in which its creator wants it to be pronounced is exactly was it would be said if it were a Spanish word.

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>>44699398
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJmHuNPclMQ
>litch
That's actually how you say it though.

ffs you get triggered at anything now /tg/

>>44699995
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lich?s=t
Check the pronunciation, you fucking spastic.

>>44699577
same

>>44706329

>shut up and suck your floor's dick

>>44706386

Origin of lich Expand
before 900; Middle English liche body (alive or dead), Old English līc; cognate with Dutch lijk, German Leiche, Old Norse līk, Gothic leik

so where is the t in lich

It is very common in Russian to use the word "милишник" (mee-lee-shnik) in MMOs and other games for a character focusing on close combat.
However, here we usually don't even know a thing about English, let alone French.

>>44706553
>http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lich?s=t

Lijk or lik all have very hard sounds that could have shifted into a t through the ages.

It's conceivable that they pronounced it 'Lick' originally, but some bozo just like you said "but where's the 'ch', the german version has a 'ch'" and they'd pronounce it Lick-ch and that eventually shifted into 'litch'.

tl; dr: It's a medieval word, do you even know how different middle English was from modern English.

>>44706553
>where does the name Litchfield come from
>omg i suck cocks

This is you.

>>44706620
He has a point though.
Before the great vowel shift liche would have been "leecheh" and and līc would have been something like "liik".
In areas of England that weren't touched by the shift (like Cornwall, IIRC), it will have a very different pronunciation, one closer to Middle English and the Modern corruption of the word.

>>44706690
woops, meant to reply to >>44706630

>>44706630
>>44706620


i dont know where thr name litchfield comes from. i guess its a city in America near a place where a battle with many deaths happend. Anyway i am german and we dont pronounce it lick. its like leiche we dont say leike either.

>>44706553
Languages change, you moron. The correct current pronunciation is 'litch'.

>>44706713
It's in the UK, kaiser Wilhelm.

>Licitfelda (c.710) "Open Land near Letocetum " (Celtic place name meaning "gray wood") + Old English feld.

Guess what? It has fuckall to do with bodies or corpses.

>>44706713

You used to, in dutch it's pronounced 'lijk' with a hard k and dutch and german share a root language (Dutch being Nederdeutsch and german being Hochdeutsch, if I recall correctly).

the K -> ch change is one that frequently happened.

>>44700586
10/10

>>44706773
>(Dutch being Nederdeutsch and german being Hochdeutsch, if I recall correctly)
Absolute nonsense.

>>44706553

Where's the 'f' in Lieutenant you fuck.

Why don't people pronounce the 'h' in herb.

Because linguistics, that's why.

>>44699551
>Literally never heard of that word before.
It's the title for the holder of a march, which is a type of borderland feudal holding that usually trades off increased military duties for fewer duties or greater independence in other areas.

Alternately you can use margrave or marcher lord which will provoke far fewer arguments about pronunciation.

>>44706783

I'm certain that dutch is Nederdeutsch, or at least descended from it. Hochdeutch might juse be me misremembering and creating an opposite category for 'normal' german.

>>44706800
>>44706783

Oh wait, no I wasn't wrong:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_German_languages

>As a technical term, the "high" in High German is a geographical reference to the group of dialects that forms "High German" (i.e. "Highland" German), out of which developed Standard German, Yiddish and Luxembourgish. It refers to the Central Uplands (Mittelgebirge) and Alpine areas of central and southern Germany, it also includes Luxembourg, Austria, Liechtenstein and most of Switzerland. This is opposed to Low German, which is spoken on the lowlands and along the flat sea coasts of the North German Plain.

>>44706800
You're certainly wrong.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niederdeutsche_Sprache
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hochdeutsch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hochdeutsch

>>44706824

Not to be a dick here, but isn't that exactly what I said?:

Dutch is Niederdeutsch and 'modern' german is Hochdeutsch. Both descended from the same root (e.g. Niederdeutsch splitting off from Hochdeutsch)

What exactly do you have issue with?

>>44706823
Yeah except you're wrong about high german being standard german, standard german is low german because mountains are generally not where a centralizing state is enforcing a standard from. Also, dutch is pretty much completely distinct from low german and actually descended from what the franks spoke.

So you were right in that the terms you were using exist but completely wrong about what they mean.

>>44706823
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_German_languages

"The lowlands and along the flat sea coasts of the North German Plain" are not the Netherlands. The western rim of the North German Plain is in Saxony, not the Netherlands.

>>44706860
>>44706861

Ah, gotcha.
Though basically every language course I ever followed had Dutch emerging from Niederdeutsch though, even the wikipedia page you linked showed a ton of Dutch dia- and regiolects that descended from Niederdeutsch.

Otherwise I was indeed wrong about the Low and high divide.

>>44706889
The article you linked to literally describes Dutch as Low Franconian. Just admit that you're wrong.

>>44706900
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German

Varieties of Low German:
In the Netherlands

The Dutch Low Saxon varieties, which are also defined as Dutch dialects, consist of:

Gronings and Noord-Drents
Hogelandsters
Oldambtsters
Stadsgronings
Veenkoloniaals
Westerkwartiers
Kollumerpompsters
Kollumerlands
Middaglands
Midden-Westerkwartiers
Zuid-Westerkwartiers
Westerwolds
Stellingwerfs
Drents
Midden-Drents
Zuid-Drents
Twents
Twents-Graafschaps
Twents
Gelders-Overijssels
Achterhoeks
Sallands
Oost-Veluws (partly classified as Veluws)
Urkers
Veluws
Oost-Veluws (partly classified as Gelders-Overijssels)
West-Veluws

>>44706889
The dutch dialects are people who speak dialects of german in the netherlands, not dialects of dutch.

>>44706913
>>44706900

Also I did admit that I was wrong, about what I was actually wrong about.

You might have seen that >>44706889
Let me quote myself
>I was indeed wrong about the Low and high divide.

>>44706913
This huge variety of dialects exist BECAUSE they're not dutch, if they were dutch they'd have been replaced by standard dutch but because they're german outside of germany they can stay as a huge variety of dialects in a tiny area.

>>44706926
>The Dutch Low Saxon varieties, which are also defined as Dutch dialects

http://www.linguatics.com/images/indoeuro02c.jpg

This is the language origin tree we learned.

Check under 'Low German'
There's Old Frisian, Anglo-Saxon, Old Saxon and Low Franconian.

>>44706913
Fail Hard 2: Fail Harder.

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Linguistics student here

Ask me anything

>>44699704
can we just take a moment to acknowledge her thighs?

>>44699398
There are languages like Spanish, Polish or German which don't have this issue.

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>Sigh-on

>>44706951
Yeah i'm pretty sure that's not how.. anyone else uses low german. I'm pretty sure the current thoughts on the family tree go west german splits into high, low, old franconian and anglo-frisian.

>>44706953
>>44706937

No offense, but I'm inclined to go with my university professor on this instead of some random person on 4chan.

Feel free to disagree, it's not like this stuff is life or death knowledge anyhow.

>>44704127
> fishman
not fishback

>>44706971
Dī doytʃe ortografī is trocdēm cimlixer ʃais.

>>44706988
Beweis durch Ehrfucht, eh?

>>44706988
Dutch is a Low Franconian language and forms a dialect continuum with Low German languages.

>>44707034
Fütter den Troll nicht weiter

>>44706988
I'm inclined to go with you didn't actually understand what your university professor was saying because i can't find ANYTHING that classifies this the way you do.

>>44707038
Fick den Polizisten.

>>44707058
fjēdn man

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>>44706988
>>44707047
Here, let's look at a map of the dutch low saxon languages you're claiming are dutch.
Look at how they're not actually spoken in more than half of the netherlands. Dutch is spoken throughout the netherlands.

Dutch low saxon/dutch low german is not dutch.

>>44699398
Marquis is actually pronounced markwiss in some countries.

Lich is actually pronounced Litch, what the hell do you think it sounds like?

>>44706978
I guess this is Scion? What's wrong with that pronouncation, besides someone possibly pausing after Sci?

>>44706954
Should metamorphosis be pronounced with a minor pause after metamor, or should it be fast?
>Meta-mor-phosis
>Meta-morphosis

>>44700189
>German is a weird language.
"[Concept]-ling" means "characterized by [concept]" in common English parlance as well.

>>44707132
As far as I know, there are no languages which have pauses within a word. Pauses only exist between phrase boundaries, and where a speaker is uncertain. So, no pause.
But it could be that you're actually talking about stress or vowel length. Maybe you could show me examples of the different pronunciations or upload them to vocaroo so I can give you a more detailed answer.

>>44699577
>>44699750
>>44702161
>>44706466
The announcer in Super Smash Brothers Melee pronunces it "mee-lee" in the very opening of the game.

Likewise with the Voodoo Lady in Curse of Monkey Island. That game's where I got most of my English pronunciation as a kid.

>Way-vern
I know it's wrong and I do it anyway.

>>44699462
The original language for lich is Germnic, and it is pronounced 'lik'.

Duergar and Drow are Scandinavian, so it's actually pronounced "Dway-ger" and "Drough".

>Sidd-hee
>Samm-hain

Also
>Banshees being undead when "bean sidhe" literally means "fairy woman".

>>44707153
Well yeah, it's not an actual pause obviously. I unfortunately can't use Vocaroo at this time

>>44707191
>Scandinavian is one language
Dvärgar (Americans, pronounce it 'dveryar' and you should only inspire mild nausea in native speakers) is the plural form of the Swedish word for dwarf, and certainly does not include any g sounds. As for the other four or five languages with the same roots, I couldn't say.

>>44707202
sorry nobody wants to come up with or use a new name for something that's 99% the same as a banshee but not a fairy so you're just going to have to put up with this

>>44707223
>(Americans, pronounce it 'dveryar'
You can feed these foreign words into Google Translate to find out what they're supposed to sound like. Swedish Dvärgar, for instance, is 'dvar-yar'.

>>44707224
I have no idea what you are trying to say.

>>44707191
As a German, that's not how you pronounce ch at all. It's actually pronounced like you would pronounce Litch, except without the t obviously.
http://imtranslator.net/translate-and-speak/speak/german/

>>44707191
except it also exists independently, if archaically, (well, not really independently since they probably both got it back from all the way in proto-germanic) from old English, so you can't just look at how it's pronounced in german. It basically mirrors the development of rich, and thus should rhyme with rich And i dunno about you but i've never NOT heard rich pronounced ritch.

>>44699564
The announcer literally says it on the title screen of super smash bros

(which incidentally, should not be pronounced "brose"

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>>44704346

>>44707162
>The announcer in Super Smash Brothers Melee pronunces it "mee-lee" in the very opening of the game.
You're bad at writing things phonetically. He pronounces it may-lay.

>>44707293
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eajoen8TeT8&t=1m27s

He fucking doesn't.

>>44707206
This is how we say it in NZ: http://vocaroo.com/i/s094nQndBgEd

>>44707341
I hear nothing but a continuous line of EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE there at the end.

>>44707399
[me.t͡səˈmɔː.fəˌsəs]
The syllable "mor" is stressed and its vowel is lengthened. Maybe that's what the other anon was talking about.

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>muh german culture

>Yew-gee-oh

>>44706954
Can you bring back diacretic marks?

They're really useful and found in many other languages, but we're stuck without them.

>>44704346
Wait, seriously, that's a thorn in Nidhoggr, not a d as is commonly anglicized? It's actually Nithoggr?

>>44699577
I've actually said it.

Because I'd only ever seen it written and never actually heard it pronounced.

>>44706630
Except it's pronounced Lichfield

>>44707191
Look man, all I know is that I'm not going to start calling him Jimmy Buh-FAY, it's too late in my life to be doing that shit.

>>44706791
People do pronounce the h in herb
Americans aren't people
This is why I refuse to listen to audiobooks read by Americans - wheel of time especially crap

>>44699803
Likely the correct pronunciation. It's been made a running a gag and by now even the game developers refuse to give a straight answer as for how it's done, but researching the likely etymology of the word reveals it.

Drow almost certainly comes from trow, a type of fairy being from the mythology of the Orkneys known for being pitch-black and living in great kingdoms underground. The trow are rich and make magical artifacts, but also extremely evil. They are known to kidnap and take slaves.

The word "trow" itself comes from the word "troll". It has been re-appropriated from the Scandinavians back when they invaded the Isles. This is how you know that it's pronounced "Trow" like "throw", rather than, say, like "now".

Drow are trow, therefore, drow is pronounced like "throw", but with a D.

>>44699398

Just stop using English.

>>44699398
My name is pronounced "Mar-kwis". You can fight me, my dad, my granddad, my great-granddad, etc. That's the Scottish way of pronouncing it. And if it ain't Scottish, it's CRAP.

>>44710892
They could also just bother to look up the IPA for historic words, would make discussing this stuff less stupid.

>>44699398
>>44699462
>>44707191
>>44707278

The German "ch" is a sound that doesn't exist in English. It's pronounced way back in the throat, like the Scottish "loch" or the Hebrew "challah." Since there's no English equivalent, go ahead and pronounce "lich" however you want.

"Tiefling," however, comes from the German word "tief" for "deep," referring to the lower planes. It is in fact pronounced like "teef"

>>44699398
>Tiefling
>Tief+Ling
>Tief: German word meaning deep
>Ling: as a suffix, means something akin to "denizen of" (ie: Earthling)
>Tief is pronounced Teef in German
Why wouldn't I pronounce it teefling?

>>44711040
>Since there's no English equivalent
I'm allowed to learn new phonemes, aren't I?

>>44706553

You don't pronounce a t though, it's just a very hard -ich, which just happens to be pronounced the same as "itch", as it is in norwich or sandwich. Remember which witch is which.

Try saying just "itch" without the t, you either have to go -ik to completely remove the t or it sounds exactly like itch.

>>44711069
You're allowed but not required. Honestly, everyone pronounces it "litch," aside from a few people who pronounce it "lish," and those are both good enough. If you start breaking out the uvular fricatives your table is going to look at you funny.

>>44707191
>drough
>ough

That statement is meaningless, there are three different pronunciations that fit there.

Do you mean drough as in bough? Drough as in through? or drough as in though?

>>44711051

Because THE MAN doesn't want to sing this rhyme:
"The Trifling Tiefling
Invaded
The Tiefling's Feifdom"

>>44708454
It's a voiced thorn, so the TH is like in "wither," not like in "with."

>>44711135
They looked at me funny when I broke out the proper way to say Zhao, too.

>>44707320

This wtf

It's may-lay

Only retards say mee-lee

>>44707191
>Duergar and Drow are Scandinavian, so it's actually pronounced "Dway-ger" and "Drough".
except Drow is not Scandinavian, Dark Elves ARE Scandinavian, except in Scandinavian folklore they are called 'Svartalfa' not Drow. I suspect wizards made up the name 'Drow' because its easier to pronounce than Svartalfa.

>>44711265
In what context? If you were running an Avatar game, that's not the place to be breaking out the authentic Chinese phonemes, considering that the correct way to pronounce Aang is the most Americlap way possible.

>>44699398
"Teefling" has been confirmed by WotC as correct, though.

>>44707166
Why, Vern?

>>44711326
The Chinese surname context "Zhào", as it was my character's name.

>>44707166
>Wihv-rin

>>44708454

it's really a bad transliteration - the norse rune equivalent to "th" looks like a d, and somehow instead of spelling it "Nithoggr" it got written down in a translation as "Nidhoggr" instead and it became standardised like that.

>caring how words are pronounced

>>44699398
As much as I would love to criticize this guy, I do have an obscure GM rule that players can't play races or classes with names I cannot pronounce.
but it has not come up as no one as-of-yet has shown interest in playing a Svirfnblin, I seriously have no idea how this name is pronounced, I mean did the guy just face-smash the keyboard when typing the name?

>>44711511
S-vuurf-neb-lin.

Like Smurf with a 'v,' nibblin' with an 'e'.

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is it "ken-durr" or "kin-dah", /tg/?

>>44699462
>How else do you pronounce it?
Like it's spelled.

Liches get riches. Liches get bitches.

>>44711776
It's kill on sight.

>>44699523
Li*phlegm*

>>44711143
Could also be tough or trough.

>>44711323
Actually 'drow' is an archaic pronunciation of the word that 'troll' is derived from.

Also, drow are older than WotC, they're from TSR era; or to be more accurate, they were made up by Ed Greenwood back in the 80's.

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>>44711938

>>44708454
well if you want to spell out the thorn, then the ö makes it "Nithhoogr"

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So /tg/, when did you realise that English was a multicultural Frankenstein's monster of a language and that nerds have for the last century only made it more of a runaway abomination?

>>44707533
I've also heard people say
>yo-gee-oh
Like, yogi bear. Yogi-oh.

My dnd group says
>ITH-ill-id
Rather than
>ILL-ith-id
Despite my repeated attempts to kindly correct them

>>44699462
>>44699467

Tiefling is rooted in the Germanic word "Tief" (pronounced like 'Teef'), meaning beast.

>>44711326
There is a LoL character named Xin Zhao, I remember discussions on pronouncing his name when he came out. I think Riot went with "Sin Jow" as the way to say it.

>>44712635
When my English class alternated between British and American vocabulary every two weeks before using Australian speakers when discussing Shakespear.

>>44712824
So close. You're thinking of the word "Tier."

>>44712635
Nerds have been kind to it compared to the fucking French. William the Bastard can go eat shit.

>>44699398
>Po-ta-toes.nav

>>44712945
>using Australian speakers when discussing Shakespear
For the love of god, why?

>"mee-lee"
hey fuck you buddy, I never heard her the term spoken
How the fuck do you pronounce "wyvern" if not "why-ern"?

>>44713277
Guess the publisher of the material just made a quick and cheap book. I was in one of the first years under a new schooling system that cut out an entire year. Implementations were handled rather poorly.

And by that I mean "Oh shit, we made an administrative error that disqualified all the good students from graduating" or "Sorry you have four 8 to 5 school days a week, you also have to pay on your own for transportation now".

People wanted that shit gone asap, but the inabillity of our politicians to admit mistakes is still keeping it in place.

>>44713277
>Et tu, cunt
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyEJKeaoPqM

>>44699398
>lays-gun

>>44713876
it fires potato chips!

>>44708400
Oh god yes please

>>44699637
>Not having 5 subraces of wyrm associated with domains of philosophical thought
>the why-erms, what-erms, who-erms, when-erms and where-erms.
>Lore tells of a sixth race, the How-erms, undone by their own desire to discover without heed of reason.

>>44701805
Saggers.

>>44711040
>The German "ch" is a sound
Wrong. It is a digraph, a combination of two letters. It is realized as /ç/, /x/ or /χ/ depending on context (and dialect). In the case of Lich, it would be pronounced /ç/.
>that doesn't exist in English.
Wrong. Most English dialects realize "huge" as /çudʒ/, so even though it is no separate phoneme, your language has the sound.
>It's pronounced way back in the throat,
Wrong. /ç/ is a palatal sound, produced in the same spot as /j/, or /i/. /x/ is velar (in the same spot as /k/ and /g/) and /χ/ is uvular, which is still at the very top of the throat.
>like the Scottish "loch"
Wrong. That word is pronounced /ɫ̪ɔx/ and doesn't include /ç/.

Stop spouting your superficial knowledge on the web.

>>44699755
>>44699693

I find the difference to be kind of pitch/tonal related.

I don't know the dialectical alphabet, but I know acting dialect, which focuses on movements and framing so stick with me here:
"Worm" has a shorter vowel sound than "wurm", with the latter having a more pronounced shifting of the lower jaw when making the "er".

"Wyrm", on the other hand, is the same sound, with the lips shifted upward. Almost like you're trying to get peanut butter out of your upper lip.

That system gets me differences that are notable to the ear, but aren't big shining signs of a letter shift.

>>44714516
And what does all that have to do with pitch and tone? I mean, aside from the fact that no language in the world actually uses jaw shifting and peanut butter removal attempts as phonological distinctions.

>>44714417
A digraph can be a single phoneme, which is what we're talking about. /χ/ is certainly a single sound even if it's usually written with two letters.

And anyway, the very premise that English has to use the German pronunciation of "lich" is flawed from the start. The English "lich" and the German "Leiche" may be cognates, but "lich" is not a recently borrowed word. It's been in English since Old English over a thousand years ago, and back then it was "lic."

>>44714730
>A digraph can be a single phoneme, which is what we're talking about.
That's exactly what anon said

>>44714576

I meant that the base tongue movements are the same, you're still initially making the word "worm", you're just shifting the sound of vowel using your lips and jaw, so the result could also pass for a simple regional pronunciation of 'worm'. It's not that the letters/words are distinctly changing, all three sound 'the same' unless the speaker is emphasizing or the listener is already aware of the distinction.

I put the pitch/tonal in there because I honestly don't know which it is, or even if either is right. For some reason my brain just does not get the idea of the various words meaning "shifts/differences in sounds". Like the difference between pitches, tones, notes, and timbres. I know they're all things, and can make general observations:
Tones tend to mean 'emotion',
Pitches relate to the "height" of the sounds,
Notes are specific pitches that are pleasingly resonant,
And...I no longer remember what distinguishes a timbre. The general vibrational quality of a voice?

But the points of difference don't make sense to my brain. It doesn't 'get' them in an infuriating way. It's especially upsetting given the number of musicals I've had to perform in.

But yeah, the point I was making is that, at the core, Worm=wurm=wyrm, but the placement of the lips and jaw during the vowel shift the sound in a way that is noticeable, but not a clear shift.

I don't know. Like I said, it's weird.

Sometimes, I feel like I took that one Shadowrun flaw where you have a 0 in a skill and can't raise it, and somehow convinced the DM that it was fine to put it in musical theory, without taking penalties to perform checks. I can MAKE notes, I just don't understand them in a sonic sense.

>>44699398
Is it weird that I pronouce it "muh-LAY"?

>>44699467

It sounds German, and in German it would indeed be pronounced "teef-ling"

>>44699522

I've always heard Marquess pronounced "markess", by British people, referring to living bearers of the title. Marquis should be "markee" iirc

>>44714982
Okay, I'll try to clear some things up.
Vowels are distinguished by three primary qualities: Height, backness and rounding.
Height has nothing to do with pitch. It's determined by how wide or narrow the space between tongue and palate is when the vowel is pronounced. This moves a vowel up or down on the IPA trapezoid posted here: >>44706954
/a/ is a low vowel and /i/ is a high vowel.
Backness determines how far back or forth the tongue moves for the vowel's pronunciation. /e/ is a front vowel and /o/ is a back vowel.
Roundedness addresses how rounded the lips are. There's usually only a distinction between rounded and unrounded, such as in German between /i/ and /y/.
Then of course there are nasal vowels, different voicings, vowel quantity (temporal length) and some other stuff. None of this has anything to do with pitch, tone, or timbre.

There are languages which use different tones (notes) or tone countours as distinctive features, for example Mandarin. English is no such language.

>>44714982
>>44715193
It is very unlikely that there is actually a phonemic distinction between worm and wyrm. If there was one, it could actually be pin-pointed and expressed in linguistic terms. Many people have certain intuitions stemming from a word's orthography, so maybe that's what happened here.

>>44710712

His point still stands britbong. we here in the USA don't throw an F in "lieutenant" just to be different from the French.

>>44715193
Thanks for that!

Hmm.

None of those qualities exactly hits the point of the difference for me. I guess it's a more distinct form of roundness. The lips are rounded in all of them, but then is deformed, stretching downward in "wurm" and deformed pressing upward in "wyrm".

>>44715253
Maybe it's a matter of subtle emphasis shift, then. Above is my best explanation.

(Though, going back to a physical approach, the lip shift in worm is closest to attempting to pout mid-vowel sound, the bottom lip jutting into the upper, while the drop in "wurm" is a matter of widening the lips as you make the vowel to a fuller "O".)

May-lay
Litch rhymes with Itch
Wyrm sounds just like worm
Teef-ling
Mar-key
Aa-zim-ar

You can disagree, but then you'd be wrong.

You can pronounce it like 'like', or like 'lick' if you like, but if you rhyme it with 'itch' you can fuck right off, bitch

Y'all arguing about all this and I still don't know how the fuck to pronounce cannabis.

>>44716095
>can-uh-biss

>>44711143
The tough coughs as he ploughs through the dough.

>>44701924
Gulf of Mexico where BP drills for oil.

So yes, hell.

>>44715484
>May-lay
... aaand you are wrong already, what a great start.

>>44707445
Yeah, and he's not saying it right, but he's saying "mea-leeeeeeeeeee"

His pronunciation is what made 11 year old me realize I was saying it wrong and figure out the right way to pronounce the word.

>>44716340
To me, it sounds like he says it correctly, and then suddenly changes.

He says "meh-ley-eeeee"

Like he said it, and then someone in the recording studio singled he had to keep going, but he didn't have enough breath to sustain the 'ay" sound, and swapped to "eee".

I thought elite was pronounced Ehl-ite for an embarrasingly long time.

Man, language is some dumb stuff.

>>44717183
You are dumb stuff. Language is fascinating. Too bad English orthography is fucked beyond salvation.

>>44704113
ok my irish isn't great but 'sahuagin' does not look like an irish word.

>>44717294
A lot of Welsh and Irish words have a lot more vowels and h's than general English speakers are used to.

Sidhe, usige, Aoibhneas, suaimhneas.

It's not impossible to associate the "shape", so to speak, of the word with the language.

>>44717199
I love the progression of words as attitudes and settings change. It's fun to see how a word went from being one thing, to something totally different.

Or stuff like auto-antonyms, words that are their own opposite (Cleave means to split apart, and to adhere to, because two different words merged into one coming into English.), which are part of the larger group contronyms, which are words that have oppository means (I can bolt away from something, or I can bolt it down.)

>>44699462
>How else do you pronounce it?

Dwimmerlaik.

>>44717604

How would you make it distinct from a lich?

>>44711859
underrated post

>>44699398
As has been said already a ton of times, lich, marquis, and tiefling are all actually pronounced like that, you are just being an autist.
That said, the others, particularly meelee and wyrm are fucking crazy. You should not play with these people, or educate them immediately. I do however believe they exist, because I have seen it myself.

I was once in a WoW guild (yeah, I know, it was back in university) where the words reagent (rej-int), fiend (fee-eyend), crypt (kreye-pt), and so on were the norm. Also they fucked up lich as well, even though the narrator says it a dozen times in various cutscenes. (Lie-tch king what the fuck).

Not to cast dispersions on any nationalities, but said guild, and the worst perpetrators were primarily people from the southern united states, and australians.

>>44699462
How do you pronounce it? Sid-ri-al?

>>44711314

>not meh-lee like a decent human

welp

>>44718759

i bet he's one of those "si-deh-re-yall" freaks

>>44699398

Melee there is no excuse. Only braindead normalfag jocks don't know how to pronounce this shit. It's so common it's even in Call of Duty so there's no excuse.

Marquis is "cultured neckbeard" level knowledge. It's not a normal use word.

The rest is just straight autism.

>>44699462
Tie-fling would actually make sense though.

Because it would be a correct pronunciation adapted for the german "teufling"
Which would mean something like little devil.
Devil-ling
And they do have horns.
And are sometimes red skinned.
And are associated with being evil.
And are smaller than actual devils.

>>44711938
>>44712258
I literally am crying with laughter.

From now on i will always pronounce it
"li-[deathrattle]"

>>44712205
>they were made up by Ed Greenwood back in the 80's.
Wrong, the first appearance of Drow is module G3 - Hall of the Fire Giant King, written by Gary Gygax in 1978.

>>44699462
>My biggest one is people saying "Side-Real" when they say sidereal.

I'd never even seen the word written before Exalted, and didn't hear it said out loud until someone mentioned sidereal time in a sci fi movie years later. I'm sorry, anon.

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>mfw born deaf
Sometimes hearing looks like more trouble than it's worth. This whole thread is weird.

>>44721179
I only know how it's pronounced from playing Scout on halloween hightower.

>>44721248

How do you process words in your mind? How do we know you're not just making random gibberish sounds in your mind instead of "proper" words?

>>44721248
Only in english my friend

Only in english

>>44721248
You uh.. you do realize that it will be possible very soon to fix that right?
I mean proper "rewire the neurons to a microphone" fix.
So you may yet have to deal with all this shit.

>>44721313
>How do you process words in your mind?
As words. Or I guess the image of words. Fuck now I'm trying to think about how I think and it's even more confusing.

As to whether I'm making sounds in my head; never mind you, how should -I- know if I am? I don't know what a sound is, other than maybe that deep chest feeling you get when something heavy goes by.

>>44721437

They're going to FORCE him to hear, whether he likes it or not!

>>44721504

Sounds are like images that you see with your ears. Except they don't look like anything and they just make noises.

>what's a noise

>>44721504
Imagine vibration, how it can get more intense or lighten up and otherwise change.

Now imagine that any person (including you) can make a range of vibrations so complex they can use them to communicate in hundreds of different languages.

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>>44721597
>Sounds are like images that you see with your ears.
I don't think that would make sense even to someone with hearing. I can't imagine what a smell you can feel would be like either.

>>44721747
OK, that's all well and good, but I largely understand vibration as something felt through an object. I'm pretty good at feeling footsteps of people around me on a hard floor, but I can't feel shit on a carpet.
I've learned that I notice earthquakes a good minute and a half sooner than other people, though.
I've had people try to explain it as being like patterns in wind, which makes some sense I guess, but that's still something felt with the skin.
If sound could be explained in the context of other senses, that'd probably mean I could hear with my other senses. Since I can't, the explanations don't seem to work.

>>44707153
>As far as I know, there are no languages which have pauses within a word.

They're very common, they're usually called "stops" or "glottals" and they are the difference between "*blackat" and "black cat".

>>44707145

Verbing weirds language.

>>44699603
underrated

>>44707202

There is no hard and fast line between undead and fairies in traditional lore. Sometimes, fairies were considered the spitrits of the dead (as with Sluagh and Beansidhe) sometimes they were giants or trolls-like monsters, as with Fomors, sometimes they were "elf-like", as with the seelie sidhe. The original term means more like "supernatural creature" than something as specific as an rpg monster type.

>>44699462
>Mee-lee

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=melee&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=O3SUVsfGFoiWPOSkudAN

>>44721248
You're not missing much.

>>44721926
>but that's still something felt with the skin
Your eardrum is basically skin.
Really the best way is to stand in front of a giant speaker.
It's a combination of vibration and airpressure, which you will feel there.

And yoou will mostly feel the deep tones. If The vibrations are of a higher frequency (you'll have to experience the changing frequency in front of a huge speaker to know what i mean) the tone is higher.
Everything you feel there would be very very deep for everyone with hearing though.

The experience of hearing can really pretty much sufficiently be understood that way.
Now comes the synesthesia part.

What you experience there is to full hearing what very strongly hued darker earthly tones are to the full color palette.

>>44721992

he said within a word tho, and your example is between words

>>44707047
>>44707086

I was wrong, I asked a friend who does languages more in depth than I do. So my apologies.

You're partially right.in that I misremembered, it was only an introductory course and we only glimpsed the language origin tables, the class was mostly focused on classification of language etc (De Saussure, perception of languages, archetypes in language visualization etc... probably getting a ton of terms wrong here but it's late).

So we saw a simplified version of the language origin thing, hence the confusion.

>>44721774
Have you never tasted a smell?
I admit I've only even had it with disgusting shit but it was an experience.
>>44721926
Well sound is literally just vibration, but there's a bone in your ear (your's doesn't function properly that's why you're deaf) that interprets it into a signal which your brain then procceses.

The problem with the explanation is really that you have no concept of sound, which seems silly because that's what is being explained but it can't really be explained because technically sound doesn't exist only vibration. Sound is just the word for the output our brain gives us.

>>44708454

That letter is found in Old English, and is called "eth". It's an unvoiced Thorn, contrary to this Anon >>44711230

It became "d" in English, just as Thorn became "th".

>>44699398
> 241 replies so far

Goddamnit /tg/. I'm not sure if I'm impressed or disgusted.

>>44714417

It's true that German CH doesn't exist in English, it became the silent gh or a simple English -ch.

>>44714516

Wurm, worm, wyrm and orm are homophones, or rather they began life as such. Just variant spellings of the same thing.

>>44714730
>and back then it was "lic."

Which was pronounced the same way "lich" is pronounced in English today, as final -c always is in Old English.

>>44721774

You try describing sounds to a deaf person.

>>44715144

On the contrary, "markwiss" is the usual British pronunciation, while "markee" is the French pronunciation.

>>44722139
>Have you never tasted a smell?
>I admit I've only even had it with disgusting shit but it was an experience
Strictly speaking, what you experienced was breathing in suspended particles large enough to register on your taste buds.
You didn't taste a smell: you tasted a mist of shit.

>>44717549

>dwem-mer-layk

>>44722340
>You didn't taste a smell: you tasted a mist of shit.
>vomit.jpg

>>44722104

It exists between words too, in English it's usually written as a double t in the middle of words like button and mutton, that are pronounced as a pause, not a t sound, in many (most?) English dialects.

>>44722522
What English dialects have you been listening to?

>>44722340
smelling also requires you to inhale particles

>>44722896

Lots of them? Really, glottals are found in all of them, ever Received Pronunciation ("proper" English).

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>>44721992

>>44722896
'Tha mu'on's a roight slap-up job, h'ent it?'

This is my favorite thread because I hate you all and love to watch you fight about nonsense.

Because I am the physical manifestation of the internet.

Linguists in this thread, explain Australian to me.

>>44706995
Als ob Junge, als ob.

>>44700414
>.gif
>nothing changes.
Why use gif then?

>>44724153
Qualified Australian here, what seems to be the problem?

>da-gin
>scim-eh-tar
>pal-aye-din
>cat-a-pract
>ka-nig-it
>sam or eye
>ass ass in
>ran grrr
>cant rip
>oh rise on
>may lay
>sa tier
>go blin
>cat anne a
>pie lum

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I had a friend who insisted "wyvern" was pronounced "wee-ren"

>>44699398
>"Jerb"

>>44713876
It fires lasers...
> lahhsgun?

>>44699398
>Not speaking a superior language that adapts loanword spelling to the pronounciation

>>44707191
>>44699398
Lich rhymes with bitch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJmHuNPclMQ

/tg/ is now /oed/, apparently.

>>44722306
The Brits also pronounce the "h" in "herbs", and changed the spelling of aluminum just to shoehorn in an extra syllable.

>>44723055
I don't understand. Is this implying that we don't voice the T's in the examples? Because if so, it's very wrong.

>>44726054
Its trying to make you hear batman in a cockney accent. It tells you that.

>>44726066
With the T unvoiced, right? I mean that's what it seems to be saying, but I have to ask because that's not how I ever hear it pronounced. And "internet porn"? While folks can get a bit lazy with the first T, the second one is very prominent: inner-net porn.

>>44699577
Almost everyone in Denmark pronounces it like that.

>>44706964
What thighs? All I see are venus flytraps.

>>44717486
A lot of Welsh and Irish words have a lot more vowels and h's than general English speakers are used to.

They have distinctive orthographies that look ridiculous to English speakers, but they're also much more consistent than English once you know the rules. A sentence in modern Irish looks like someone dropped a fistful of h's in there, but it's almost always there to modify the pronounciation of the preceding consonant, or else to go in front of a word that starts with a vowel if the context requires it. A word like 'sahuagin' stands out as something that would never occur in irish, and if it was imported from another language would probably be written as 'sathaigín' or something.

>>44726030
They're just a more rational people all round.

>>44706553
In that case, surely it's pronounced Lee.

>>44706620
More likely it was pronounced like "league".

>>44726138
>let's measure objects based on increments of the distance to the sun and the boiling point of water instead of something simple like a forearm or foot

>>44721992
There are no real pauses though, not even between words. Another difference between "Blackat" and "Black cat" is that in "Black cat", you pronounce the word "Black" as "Blag".

>>44707132
Since it's derived from "meta" and "morphosis", surely you ought to pronounce it "metaMORphosis".

In Danish, though, it's "metamorFOse".

>>44726200

You might, I say "blak". Also, define "real pause". A glottal IS a pause, idk why you dispute it's reality.

>>44707259
In Danish, it's spelled with a G as well, but pronounced "Dvair-wuh".

>>44726217
I meant that (like when one transscribes sentences using IPA) there are literally no pauses within a single sentence, because we don't actually waste time pausing between words - it's all one big jumble of sounds. There are often pauses between sentences though, and within sentences there are glottal stops.

>>44726185
good idea, though I think the french claim credit for that one

>>44710712

"We say herb, because there's a fucking h in it."

Yeah, well, there's a fucking R in it too, britbong.

>>44727050
I don't know of any dialect that doesn't enunciate the r in herb.

>>44726125
Yeah, "sahuagin" definitely doesn't sound Welsh or Gaelic because you actually pronounce all the letters in "sahuagin." We're talking about the people who pronounce "Samhain" as "Sawin."

Of course, the English are just as bad at skipping over letters, in their case out of sheer laziness rather than because of any unique orthographical rules. There's an English family called Featherstonehaugh and pronounced "Fenshaw."

>>44726293
>there are literally no pauses within a single sentence
A comma denotes a pause. Everything you're saying is wrong.

>>44727265
Don't non-rhotic accents tend to pronounce it something like "hub" or "heb"?

> Wiv-ren
> Why-vorn
> Wer-vern

>>44704346
>marquess
I don't understand your complaint.

>>44727710
How about Happisburgh, Postwick, Stiffkey, Costessey, and Worcester (pronounced Hayesborough, Pozzick, Stoukey, Cossey, and Wuster)?

>>44699398
After seeing the amounts of retardation in this thread as well as OP, I have to come to the conclusion that you are all pulling my leg.

Why else would people not know what words mean? Or just check? We live in an online age for god's sake.

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Damn, for a topic THIS easy to just google fucking up, the amount of retardation is stunning.

And no, it's not
>may-lay

>>44727817
Oh yeah, and here's one for the LoLfag at >>44712857 - Warwick is pronounced "warrick." Fuck English people.

>>44727866
It is in the US.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/melee

>>44727912
Well, I'll be damned. I always was of an impression that English is quite conservative in pronunciation when borrowing from, say, Latin or French. Pronounced as 'meh-lay', and I know French; Russian is my native.

In other words, I am a faggot, US wins once again. The previous discussion I lost was about pronouncing 'either'.

>>44712820

I always pronounced it
>ill-ITH-id

I have no idea if there's a correct way to pronounce it, but at least I have the letters right.

>>44721582

That did just occur to me, isn't there a big thing among the deaf that it's "not a disability" or something?

Far be it for me to knock someone for feeling a sense of community, but I dunno, I feel like, say, people born deaf should have it fixed as soon as possible. You can't force adults to do it, of course, but small children? Sure. We do other stuff like heart surgery and shit. It's okay to fix a kid's heart, or their legs, but it's discrimination to fix their ears? I dunno.

>>44722522
>>44722896

In American English, "button" is pronounced closer to "buddon" or even "bu-'n", which is closer to a glottal stop.

American English generally pronounces Ts as Ds when it appears in the middle or end of words, but not at the front.

>>44721248
the only thing your missing out on is music senpai, and even then your not missing much.

>>44715064
>The cow says MUH

>>44721992
>>44722522
>They're very common, they're usually called "stops" or "glottals" and they are the difference between "*blackat" and "black cat".
You're probably talking about the glottal stop.
Stops are a class of sounds such as p, k, or d, which are characterized by a short but complete interruption of the airflow at a certain location in the vocal tract.
Glottals are sounds produced at the glottis, such as /h/ in English "hat".

The glottal stop is not a break, however. It consists of a closure, a short buildup of pressure, and a release of that pressure. It's a normal speech sound and can be found in many languages. It even has phoneme status (that is, its presence or absence changes the meaning of a word) in quite a few languages.

>>44728121
Deaf people are awful that way. You don't see blind people going around opposing treatment for blindness and even wanting to blind their own children.

>>44722228
If you're only talking about the historical sound and letters which occured back when English and German were still one language, you're right.
If you're talking about the phone [ç] however, it exists in both English and German.

>>44728172
This, along with dropped word initial /h/, are all things that people speaking my language would associate with rural dialects from the north where people don't speak much and when they do they keep it short.

Then again, the people in the south also tend to turn voiceless plosives into voiced plosives and no one ever understands what they are saying.

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>>44724439
Āber foles rōr, alter
>>44726217
A glottal sound is not a pause, it's a sound, as pointed out here: >>44728270

>>44727954
>I always was of an impression that English is quite conservative in pronunciation when borrowing from, say, Latin or French.
pic related

>>44712824
german "tief" means literally "deep"
... so Tiefling pretty much means "smo/sth living in the deep"

and yes, "Tief-" os pronounced "teef"

>>44726213
ditto in german

>>44721774
I still want to know what the fuck that image is trying to say.

>>44728941
That's prolly the joke

>>44728941
Imagine sky. How is the touch?

Personally I find mispronouncing words annoying, but nowhere near as bad a people who write rogue as rouge.

One is a thief. The other is a colour.

>>44721132
My original ( >>44711323 ) point still stands, that Dark Elves are not traditionally called "Drow" that was someone in the 20th century's doing because they likely found the traditional name too difficult to pronounce.

>>44721248
i cannot imagine not being able to listen to music. other than that it must be fine, but i would probably kill myself if i couldnt listen to music.