Of all the Social Darwinist societies one of the best takes on them is the Neimoidians from Star Wars. Basically Neimodians raise their young in large communal hatcheries giving them limited food while forcing them to fight over it for the first few years of their lives. Those that survive this process were fearful of deprivation and death and so tended towards greed, ruthlessness in dealings along with an aversion to putting themselves into harms way.
>only meaningful contribution was stealing hyperdrives like a million years ago
>free of vice
>remain a relevant market force up until the present
Why are Duros so shit?
Well, if you can pester your GM to let you have a Flarestar, and stat the whole party as Duros doctors and biologists, you can make your Star Wars campaign about ayy lmaos going around probing everything and everyone.
what once-barely-canon-now-nothing-EU source are you getting this from? Last time I checked all the Neimoidians were is greys with comically bad droid armies and vaguely racist accents.
There's no such thing as being more or less social Darwinist, any more than there's such a thing as more or less evolution. In fact, there's no such thing as "social Darwinism", that's just a dumb term people came up with to justify behaving like assholes.
I think is from Cloak of Deception? Aka "Making sense of Episode 1", the book.
>Why are Duros so shit?
Neimoidans actually got a culture?
I note that it's once again "the few members of these species we see in the movies are exactly typical of most members of the species", like what ended up with Rodians having their entire culture built around Bounty Hunting.
Oh it's on a publicly editable wiki: must be canon.
Best watch out for the Vong coming in Ep8
Supreme Leader Snoke has such sights to show you.
>Those that survive this process were fearful of deprivation and death and so tended towards greed, ruthlessness in dealings along with an aversion to putting themselves into harms way.
Which explains why they had to build their military from hilariously inept battle droids. And look how well that worked.
>"the few members of these species we see in the movies are exactly typical of most members of the species"
Yep. Neimodians practice natural selection by making their larvae fight for food to instill greed and a fear of death.
It's quite interesting when you look into other settings, where survival-of-the-fittest type of rearing your offspring usually serves in creation of an aggressive, militaristic culture typified in a hotheaded killer with no fear of death. Were neimodians actually a success of such process, or the failure that somehow improbably escaped death?
ugh fuck that shit. Same thing with the fucking mandalorians being an entire goddamn planet of boba fetts or hutts all being gangster slugs or any of the rest of that bullshit. Burn in hell, EU
yeah, that is because most people have no idea how survival of the fittest actually works
game theory goes into this in a big way, but long story short as a survival of the fittest strategy, greedy coward kicks the shit out of hotheaded killer with no fear of death.
because when two hotheaded killers with no fear of death come into conflict, the most likely result is one dead killer and one maimed killer. EMTs have a wonderfully grim joke about it, actually: "How can you tell the winner of a knife fight from the loser? He's the one who dies in the emergency room and not the ambulance."
but when two greedy cowards come into conflict, two greedy cowards are gonna come out of it. one of them's just going to have less shit.
The prequels WERE bad hoss. Deal with it.
Empire > New Hope > Jedi >> Force Awakens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christmas Special >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boba Fett comics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prequels > Ass Cancer.
Mass Effect kinda sorta touches on this with the Krogans. In the past they were a standard ass-backwards social Darwinist meathead race, and got away with it because of their absurd toughness and enormous reproductive rate. Then they got tagged with a virus that fucked up the latter advantage, and despite the former they became an endangered species almost overnight.
Meanwhile the Salarians, who engineered the virus, continue to be one of the most prosperous and visible races in the galaxy. Mostly because they're a bunch of sneaky treacherous dicks.
I'm sure you are the one that decides that, oh wait you don't, Disney does. Clearly says what's canon and what isn't on the wiki. With their social darwinistic culture being canon.
At least they had cool designs, something can be salvaged for glorious vidya.
There is not a single original idea in TFA. Actually there are less different ships than in ANH, TIE vs Xwing only, no capitals, final destination
TFA is a better movie than the prequels, but I agree it was just a rehash of New Hope. It was a fairly well-done one though, at least.
Also the new TIE fighters are pure sex. Putting their guns on a turret and letting them actually be as maneuverable as advertised and using the gunner to take advantage of that with a wider field of fire? My boner was palpable.
Also competent storm troopers made me all kinds of happy.
>TFA is a better movie than the prequels
and the prequels recuts are a better movie than TFA
and Phantom Menace had the makings of a better movie than TFA sans competent execution
I'm still assmad that TFA had less new stuff than any single one of the prequels, and it still required a separate comic to make sense of what the fuck was going on anyway.
honestly, I've always thought it's impossible to rank the Star Wars movies like that. They're all very different movies. True, a New Hope doesn't have the depth of Empire, but then Empire doesn't have those almost perfect 'hell yeah' moments like Han Solo flying out of the sun to take out the tie fighters on luke's tail. Neither of them have anything like the take-down of Jabba in Return of the Jedi, which is almost like a mini heist movie (except they're stealing back Han Solo), or the scale of the space battle. How do you balance the redemption of Darth Vader against Ewoks? I personally just like to say they're all great movies and leave it there.
And of course the originals are better than the prequels. That goes without saying. But again, it's hard to rank the prequels. Personally, I think attack of the clones is clearly the weakest. But how do you compare the better story of Revenge of the Sith against things like better set-pieces and more practical effects in Phantom Menace (and no Hayden Christensen)?
Where it gets really difficult is trying to rank The Force Awakens. Personally I feel it isn't nearly as good as the original trilogy, but even there there are some people who would disagree. Putting those idiots aside, however, I actually think I might prefer the prequels to the Force Awakens. I know, it sounds insane, and I go back and forth on it, but in the end I think I may actually prefer a meaningful story poorly executed than an incredibly lazy story with finely polished dialogue and great effects. I guess it will depend on what context the next two movies give The Force Awakens.
>I'm still assmad that TFA had less new stuff than any single one of the prequels
Yeah, it's quite obvious that you don't give a fuck about these things as movies.
> and it still required a separate comic to make sense of what the fuck was going on anyway.
I've never looked read anything like that, and I had no problems whatsoever keeping up. Did you use to sit down with a big bag of cinnabar snacks to watch the prequels as a kid?
>and no Hayden Christensen
When you get this instead...
firstly, he wasn't the centre of the film. Secondly, it's more forgiveable when they're that age. Thirdly, he just gets a lot of shit because everyone hates the Phantom Menace. Looking back on it he was mildly annoying but he wasn't that bad. He was asked to play the cutesy little kid and that's exactly what he did - it's not his fault that George Lucas had no sense of how to make a child a compelling character.
Meanwhile, watching Hayden Christensen try to act is like nails on a chalkboard. Apologists have sprung up recently trying to claim it was all the fault of the bad dialogue he was given, but while he was given some shitty lines I'd say from the other films I've seen him in that he is just a bad actor.
The Separatists could have won easily, even accounting for Palpatine intentionally drawing out the conflict, if they hadn't relied primarily on shoddily constructed, retarded droids.
Not the guy you replied to.
I've seen him in other movies too, he isn't that shit.
Also to be quite frank i really don't understand all the hate the prequels get.
Granted, basing the gungan and neimoidian accent on actual real life accents was cringe, and the massive amounts of cgi didn't age well in retrospect, and anyone in any way involved with making the dialogue should be banned from working on movies ever again, but it wasn't that bad.
Plus people tend to overlook the glaring faults of the OT.
It's mostly just 80s nerds crying because they changed it now it sucks, and because the force isn't something you just have to believe in to master any more.
Han didn't shoot first.
The TIE Fighter has lost it's main charm: It's apperent cheapness. They've got atmosphere now, two seats, a turret, they have kept the compactness which is important, but they don't feel like the death traps the Empire was content to put their pilots into and throw at the enemy.
TFA's first 30 minutes were better than most of the prequels.
TFA's last 40 minutes were the worst things I've seen put on a theatre screen.
The combination of these traits puts it just under revenge of the sith in quality
>I'm still assmad that TFA had less new stuff than any single one of the prequels, and it still required a separate comic to make sense of what the fuck was going on anyway.
To be fair, ANH was kinda the same way. Are we supposed to dislike the Empire on the principle of it being a vaguely fascist state? We aren't really given any reason to care about the struggle of the Rebel alliance or what they're trying to overthrow until mid-way through the film when the Empire blows up Alderaan. Are we supposed to care about the dissolution of the unseen Senate? And if this is an Empire, where the fuck is the Emperor?
Oh and to be relevant to the thread.
Nothing in the movies suggested that they were social darwinists, and in fact it seemed like the opposite. If you carefully select tat only the brutes who trample others survive by altering the natural environment so that you have no advantage to cooperate, (the stuff you described there) you get assholes and brutes who trample over each other.
And if you confront them with death all the time, they're not going to be bothered by it at some point.
So essentially Sparta.
And look how much good this did for them.
Any side winning would be a Palpatine victory in theory, but what he really needed was a massive military-industrial complex, a weary and fearful populace, and for the principle powers on both sides to be weak. Anything less and there is no way for him to become the Emperor without extensive conflicts, challenges, and entrenched opposition.
So to your mind its EASIER to win without a huge army that is totally loyal?
>two seats, turret
Only the special forces version.
TFA's last 40 minutes were the worst things I've seen put on a theatre screen.
You are either a liar or have seen very few movies in the cinema.
>Granted, basing the gungan and neimoidian accent on actual real life accents was cringe
see, I don't think they did. I think that, like an ink-blot test, people heard something that sounded vaguely familiar and ascribed intent where none existed. The reason Jar Jar sounds like a racist stereotype of a black guy is because he was voiced by a black guy who was asked to do a silly voice. I didn't notice until someone pointed it out to me that the Neimoidians sounded Asian, and even now I don't really think they do.
They don't sound Asian so much as 'A bad parody of an Asian character'. They sound like they came out of something the BBC did back when it was acceptable to paint a guy yellow if you needed a Japanese character.
I sure as fuck have never heard a black guy who sounded like a Gungan.
Do you actually think Midichlorians was anything but a dreadful, poorly thought out decision? And there is no reason to defend Lucas's spiteful attempts to keep butchering the films people love.
That's Abrams for you. Interesting setup, then shits all over it.
The difference being that ANH had those as intentional as it's an homage to early sci-fi serials and uses imagery to invoke fascist states rather than immediately showing explicit actions. Remember, when ANH was released you actually had audience members who lived under, and fought against, various fascist governments and when you turned on the nightly news you could see a cavalcade of dictators with a hard-on for military fashion.
I quite honestly didn't even know it was racist towards blacks i thought it was hispanics or something.
It's just that i originally watched a translated version of ep1 and they managed to do funny voices without having ridiculous accents.
Then watching the movie in original voice was fucking jarring.
>And there is no reason to defend
Yes there is. He's the director he can do with them any way he pleases, and if he wants to make a main character not be a cunt he has all right to do so.
And midichlorians were one of the things i loved the most about PM.
It puts the force on an actual basis. It implies that there is science behind it that could at least partly be understood if anyone reeeeeally cared, without trivializing it to the point where it's mundane.
Which is important for the internal consistency of a universe that is rife with the wonders of science. It's basically a hand-waving of a question, without really giving any details and not drawing attention to it. Thus it is absolutely positive for the suspension of disbelief.
It pulled the movies out of the uncanny realm of science fantasy into the realm of science fiction.
>So to your mind its EASIER to win without a huge army that is totally loyal?
No, it's easier to win with a huge, totally loyal army that isn't dumb as a half empty sack of rocks and can't be dismembered by hand. You could replace a company of battle droids with a single droideka and come out ahead.
Besides, It doesn't make sense and thus isn't believable, that a character who is in the
>You want to capture me? Well then i'll fucking kill you.
mindset, to suddenly start caring about a rag-tag opposition movement without money, and a random farmer kid he just met in a spaceport.
>preferring science over magic
In a SCI-fi setting?
All day erry day.
Depending on whom you ask. Many people found the mystical and spiritual elements of the original trilogy refreshing. It struck a then rare balance between the appearance of "science fiction" (unlike the more extreme planetary romances which didn't even try) while still being very soft and casual (unlike the harder science fiction then popular in literature). It was space opera for the masses.
Think about that for a moment.
But Star Wars is not supposed to be science fiction. The force was a mystical thing and it worked better that way.
>not a cunt
You heard it here first folks, if you defend yourself against someone you know is about to kill you then you are a cunt. Nice people let bad guys get the first shot.
Greedo outright told Han he was going to kill him, pay attention to the film.
But you cannot have a huge army without cheap droids. And droidekas cannot do everything, they also have vulnerabilities a humanoid droid lacks. Not being as good as a supersoldier does not make them awful.
Its still fucking idiotic to call it 'one of the worst things you have seen in the cinema'. Its nowhere near that bad.
Plus any sufficiently advanced science is immediately magic = any magic is just sufficiently advanced science.
>a then rare balance between the appearance of "science fiction"[...] while still being very soft and casual
It still is very soft and casual, it's just not absolutely out of the place mysticism.
>But Star Wars is not supposed to be science fiction. The force was a mystical thing and it worked better that way.
It had fucking spaceships and hyperdrives and droid immobilizing bolts and jammed playback. It was science fiction and the mystical stuff was a glaring and totally out of the place thing.
Just because you saw it that way first and didn't get bothered by it as a kid, and all the other nerds who did the same will back you up on it, doesn't mean it's right.
It's fucking ridiculously painful to be totally vague and totally inexplicable in a setting where technology is the triving force behind every fucking aspect of the damn plot.
>if you think that starwars is one of them
You heard it here first, starwars is not fiction.
>But they gave him his money right after he arrived with Leia, Anon
That still doesn't give him any reason to risk his life going out to find luke.
If you shoot to kill you're an asshole. No matter what. Plus it could've been that greedo was bluffing han had no way of knowing that until greedo shot.
Droidekas are faster, more capable, have deflector shields, and more powerful and faster blasters. The thing is you don't need to make B1 droids awesome. Stronger construction, more armor, and more intelligence is all you really need. Astromechs are smarter and better built and they're mechanics who can hold hyperspace coordinates.
People will forget about TFA in a few months. It just lacks originality. Adds nothing new to the setting. No interesting concepts or ideas about the force. Nothing memorable. It's basically a marvel movie set in the star wars universe. It's like if star wars started as a comic and this was the movie made for it. An okay popcorn flick with barely any memorable scenes. Let me give a simple example. When they assaulted the Starkkiller base, tons of fighters are on screen, shits blowing up, and they take down the station. The thing is I don't remember a damn thing from the fight. In a new hope I remember when porkins didn't pull up. I remember when the tie fighters scream into the battle. I remember when Luke saves his friends ass. Along with han and vader and tons of other shit about the assault. Lots of distinct moments that were small but memorable. Tons of little things I remember because the scene wasn't a fast paced mess of shlock.
As people have said, Star Wars was refreshing for being unabashedly pulpy science fantasy and pushing it into pure sci-fi would be diminishing one of the fundamental things that captures the imagination of the viewer.
That said, midichlorians don't do that because midichlorians aren't a "basis" for anything and it's tiresome hearing people suggest they somehow science-ize the Force. They're literally just micro-organisms drawn to sources of Force energy, usually force-sensitive individuals. That's really as much information as Phantom Menace gave if I recall, so that doesn't really lead to the conclusion they somehow generate the Force or lend it any kind of hard materialistic credence - more likely they just feed on it or enter a benign symbiosis with force-sensitives the same way thousands of kinds of micro-organisms can do with us in real life.
I mean, you wouldn't say in a setting with blood magic that the existence of mosquitos provides a hard basis for the 'science' behind blood magic, would you?
>It had fucking spaceships and hyperdrives and droid immobilizing bolts and jammed playback. It was science fiction and the mystical stuff was a glaring and totally out of the place thing
You really just didn't get it. The closest you could call it to sci-fi is Space Opera.
>If you shoot to kill you're an asshole
Oh you are just so morally bankrupt you disagree with self defence, got it. Meanwhile in the real world there is literally nothing wrong with using lethal force to protect yourself. Letting a guy shoot you after he points a gun and says he will shoot you is not moral, its suicidal.
>It's fucking ridiculously painful to be totally vague and totally inexplicable in a setting where technology is the triving force behind every fucking aspect of the damn plot.
But Magic was the driving force behind the plot.
The villains were literally Evil wizard-monk-tyrants, Anon.
>unabashedly pulpy science fantasy and pushing it into pure sci-fi would be diminishing one of the fundamental things that captures the imagination of the viewer.
It wasn't pulpy it was dumb. It was trying to fit two things together that don't match.
You can't have something be a total fucking mystic bullshit in a setting where literally none of the plot could happen without incredibly advanced technology. It doesn't make sense.
Kids back then ignored it because "whoa awesme spess adventure and spectacle!" But it really, really didn't make any sense.
>The closest you could call it to sci-fi is Space Opera.
Just like StarTrek is space opera.
It's the exact fucking same.
And just how DS9s mystic episodes were fucking jarring and dumb the same is true abut the force without any rational explanation.
>if you don't want people to kill others on accident you're morally bankrupt.
Han had absolutely no way of knowing that greedo was actually going to shoot him.
He was a wanted criminal at that point.
it had almost 0 effect on the plot.
If it was about magic, then luke would've fought another magic jedi on tatooine.
But, no it was about the death star, an empire conquering the galaxy, piloting ships, infiltrating bases, rescuing droids, destroying shield generators, destroying war mechas, trying to escape to hyperspace etc.
Literally nothing of the plot could've happened in a galaxy where people didn't care enough about science to let the force remain a mystical thing unquestioned.
Do you enjoy pretending that anybody who disagrees with your bizarre view on the OT MUST be a child? Its meant to be a fairytale in space with WW2 dogfighting and Japanese cinema influences all over the place. Not a coherent sci-fi setting.
Shooting someone who threatened to kill you while pointing a gun at you is not an 'accident', its what is called a justified case of self defence in most places. Why is the onus on the guy being threatened to let the guy carry out his threat?
They're based entirely around maximizing profitability which is a terrible way to go about war. All you need to do is stick enough metal on the torso, which if they weren't made of tissue paper wouldn't be hard to do, to stop a blaster bolt from a DC-15. We see Clone troopers taking blaster hits and surviving, so it's not like it'd be particularly complicated or expensive to up-armor the droids.
Well they were a military contractor selling security equipment, those droids were never built for major wars.
And its not worth it if the costs involved in manufacture and transport are too high relative to the increase in combat effectiveness.
>Do you enjoy pretending that anybody who disagrees with your bizarre view on the OT MUST be a child?
No but they were a child back when they first saw the OT.
And i can totally understand why having something you loved as a kid be challenged might be infuriating even if you're an adult.
>Its meant to be a fairytale in space
It WAS meant to be. It is not any more. And that is good, because a fairytale in space is something that you can only enjoy if you really don't give a fuck about internal consistency. = you're a child, or you've first seen it as a child.
>Why is the onus on the guy being threatened to let the guy carry out his threat?
It's not. But he could've just gone with him peacefully and explain everything to jabba the way he later did.
With the scene changed it seems like greedo was the hot headed cunt who wanted money NOW. And han was the cool, "impossible to kill/catch" rogue, who's actually trying to avoid violence and is generally a good guy in a tough shell.
With the scene as it was originally intended to be, greed is just a poor bounty hunter who didn't do anything wrong yet, and han was just a random rogue afraid for his life and killing people without a second thought.
Han being the first thing is in line with him pretending to only care about the money but still immediately caring about luke/the rebellion/his love for leia.
Han being the second thing is in conflict with him so quickly starting to care about luke and the rebellion and not just abandoning them and high tailing it out of there the second things got dangerous
In short: all these changes you people hate are to minimize faults in the internal logic of the movies, which all of you didn't care about, but were nonetheless glaring problems.
>those droids were never built for major wars.
A single droid control ship contained fifty landing craft, 1500 starfighters, 1500 troop carriers, 550 transports, 6250 tanks, and 139,000 battle droids.
At the minimum, you'd get a massive increase in combat effectiveness by increasing their intelligence to the standard seen in other mass produced droids.
>And i can totally understand why having something you loved as a kid be challenged might be infuriating even if you're an adult.
Even more, i am the same about the New Trilogy.
I can however at least acknowledge the many objective shortcomings of the new movies.
I only ask the same of you for the OT.
>poor bounty hunter who did not do anything wrong yet
I hope for your own sake you are trolling. You are literally going 'he was a good boy, he dindu nuthin'.
NOTHING about shooting first when threatened by a guy who plans to kill you stops you being a good guy. Why don't you just come out and say you would have preferred Han let himself get shot. Do you think people who defend themselves in this situation IRL are morally wrong for not wanting to die? Do you prefer it when they assume the criminal is just bluffing and die as a result? You cannot go peacefully with someone who is just going to kill you.
Also the way they implemented the change is so incompetent that its downright bizarre to defend it.
How about you bring up an actual shortcoming then instead of 'hurr self defence is wrong' and 'hurr I dislike the force being mystical'.
The midichlorians were created specifically to counter the idea that Star Wars promotes the Force as a religious concept. I think Lucas heard about the weirdos practicing Jediism and freaked.
"Survival of the fittest lel"
>What is luck
>What is disproportionate advantage
Those people are completely fucking bonkers. Winning doesn't demonstrate superiority - you can be vastly inferior in terms of capability and still win because you were the right circumstances to do so, and you can be vastly more capable yet find yourself in a situation with no way to win.
Evolution itself isn't survival of the fittest, it's survival of the adequate and the lucky.
>Why don't you just come out and say you would have preferred Han let himself get shot. Do you think people who defend themselves in this situation IRL are morally wrong for not wanting to die?
you didn't read any of what i wrote please read again
>Also the way they implemented the change is so incompetent that its downright bizarre to defend it.
This is true.
>self defence is wrong
lethat force in self defence is wrong especially if you're supposedly a master of not getting killed/caught, and a really great shot, and you had no reason not to resolve the conflict peacefully.
>hurr I dislike the force being mystical
YOU were the person (i think) who said that it was intended to be that was and it was "good " that way.
I brought actual arguments why it wasn't internally consistent.
Well that is just childish.
>lethat force in self defence is wrong
Sorry but that viewpoint is fundamentally incompatible with supporting the right to self defence. Either you think its okay to defend yourself or you expect people to risk their own life to try and protect the one attacking them.
Any system of morality that encourages people to risk their own life for the sake of the person trying to kill them is broken and favours the aggressor.
Midichlorians have been around to some extent or another since 1977, he just never used them.
At least, that's according to a quote from one of the books on the history of Star Wars; whether that's actually true or not or if it's George being revisionist again is unknown.
>you expect people to risk their own life to try and protect the one attacking them.
I do expect that, but only to a minimal extent.
If it wasn't specifically han there, him killing greedo wouldn't even be a problem.
And a second thing:
Killing another person in a situation that could have been resolved just by doing what the other person wants, is bad.
He could've said: "okay take me to jabba. you get the bounty and i'm going to pay him."
And then just told jabba what he told him later.
>favors the aggressor
If you kill someone who in the end did not harm you, you are the agressor.
>He could've said: "okay take me to jabba. you get the bounty and i'm going to pay him."
I'm sure that would have ended well.
>If you kill someone who in the end did not harm you, you are the agressor.
Are you retarded?
Dude moves to attack you
You take him out first
Which one of theses two made an aggressive move first?
I've always liked the brutal political dickery flavor of social darwinism. You grow up in a society where you're expected to scheme.
For instance, I'll take two cultures from The Wheel of Time:
The Carheinen, who scheme so naturally, that their entire society is like a microcosm of ww1 era politics mixed with The Question's (animated JL:U) worldview. Their schemes aren't necessarily lethal, it's just everyone wants the most influence with whoever the current monarch is, or to be the current monarch. If you lose, you'll likely end up destitute and homeless, which could be a problem depending on who you've crossed/dealt with.
Then you have the Seanchan, who have taken the scheming, and turned it into ritual. Rulers are expected to fend off assassination attempts, because it's considered rude to not send assassins after them. If you're good friends with the guy sending assassins after you this week, he'll make sure the first few are level 1 PCs and attack when your level 20 body guard is on shift. But even the ones that like you will eventually step it up and start sending real challenging assassins after you.
A slip up in conversation, using the wrong title for instance, or now bowing low enough, could result in your execution, or just being forced to grow your hair out (currently not in fashion)
Is not good enough.
>fuck him up
Is not the same as killing him, and thus doesn't warrant lethal self defense.
And all this is still missing the point that han DID END UP MEETING JABBA'S THUGS ANYWAY.
Dude attacks you with fists. You take out a gun and shoot him. You're the guilty party.
Basically there's two levels of violence: generally nonlethal, and generally lethal.
In my view, if someone initiates with generally nonlethal violence, you can't escalate to lethal without being in the wrong. This is currently reflected in most of our self defense laws in burgerstan, with the notable exception being castle doctrines.
If someone threatens you with lethal violence, it's okay to respond in kind. This is currently reflected in our legal system too, with the notable exception being that some states lack stand your ground laws (basically, some states claim that there is a duty to attempt to retreat, if possible).
For instance, if someone was coming at you with a knife, but you were in a car and could just as easily outrun them, you pulling a gun out on them would be wrong. I'm fine with that, so long as there is a generous presumption in favor of the party claiming self defense (but only if that party is able to establish that the other guy was the initial aggressor).
There are a few more nuances as well: You can't use lethal force solely in defense of property. If someone breaks into your home and you're not there, but you kill them anyways with some sort of realistic home alone death trap, you're guilty of murder, because you were never in any danger.
All this is to say that Han shot first, but it was okay, because that guy was gonna take him to jabba to die, and had pulled a gun first on han, thus becoming the initial lethal aggressor.
>see a thread about the starwars prequels and EU, and what amazing new info they hold about something.
>while at the same time being about social darwinism.
>expect no arguments
what are you doing
He could've just gone with him to jabba! Jesus.
>And all this is still missing the point that han DID END UP MEETING JABBA'S THUGS ANYWAY.
Han could see the future?
>He could've just gone with him to jabba! Jesus.
Because that would have ended well.
>Is not good enough.
I would say it is. If I go into the crocodile enclosure at the zoo and try to Steve Irwin hug the crocodiles I'm probably going to get bit and eaten. No certainly, just probably.
Seems weird that battle droids were completely phased out if regular use.
Even if the resist droid grunt was useless for anything but cannon fodder, the Droidekas from the prequel trilogy were functionally immune to infantry blaster fire, and even forced a pair of Jedi to retreat in their first appearance. Surprised at least those aren't still around.
Except the man/slug he owed money to was known for being a violent ass who went in for cruel and unusual punishment.
And the debt collector is coming at you armed.
>having to fight for your survival following the rules of survival of the fittest makes you a coward and risk averse
>That's why veterans and child soldiers are known to be such greedy pussies
This retarded retro-active writing. I mean it's not only that they made the few representing characters into epitome's of their racial traits again, but also the explanation of they pulled out of their ass again.
Were there any droid foundries outside of Geonosis? They could have just run out of manufacturing facilities, and its not like the Empire would be in a hurry to rebuild the military facilities of the enemy. That and droids had that nasty tendency to be shut down remotely. Its not like military application of droids was stopped entirely. You still had scouts and torture droids and those little black van things on the Death Star.
The thing with the whole idea of the droid army was that it was really this naive concept of warfare from a largely peaceful galactic republic. They're alright if the other guy has no military, but they're outclassed by dynamic thinkers who don't shut off at the flip of a switch and who will just figure out how to show up with bigger guns or get behind the shields or use thermal detonators or whatever. The Droidekas are intimidating at first because they're immune to blaster fire/reflected blaster fire, but that shit wouldn't last long on an open battle field when soldiers actually figure out how to take them down.
there is literally no such thing as luck. it's a coverall term for any sort of variable not accounted for, that's it. Anything anyone ever calls luck is just forces they weren't paying attention to or were unable to quantify in the scenario, but none of them are inherently unqualtifiable or unobservable. Luck is the invention of stupid people to explain intelligence they can't understand.
As far as I'm concerned, if I'm in some backwater shithole and someone points a gun at me, and I manage to blast them away before they do whatever they're doing, then that's fine. Maybe I'm morally bankrupt, but who gives a shit about some lowlife scum?
I think while we're on this topic of the OT, I believe that, fundamentally, the general plot of the OT isn't bad. However, the politics fluff combined with some bad characters (Jar Jar character-wise and Hayden Christensen acting/writing-wise, depending on who you ask) absolutely ruined the trilogy. A remake of the OT, a la BSG or Star Trek, would not be a bad thing, if done with the right director (i.e. not George Lucas).
That's what I thought.
Top Shelf obscure qt.
>I'm sure you are the one that decides that, oh wait you don't, Disney does.
Why does Disney get to decide that. In what way is "owning the merchandizing rights" make you more an authority than the fan community?
>Clearly says what's canon and what isn't on the wiki.
Even if disney were somehow an authority, they don't own wookiepedia, and therefore don't have the ability to, or even attempt to, exert that level of fine control over the wiki.
Technically, it's "if it was from before September 2014 and wasn't in a movie or The Clone Wars, it's not canon."
And the citation the Wook uses for the Neimoidians social structure, Absolutely Everything You Need To Know About Star Wars, has a disclaimer in the very back saying that most of the content in the book is from material that is now considered Legends.
I thought the fact that storm trooper helmets looked vaguely nazi-ish (aside from being called STORMTROOPERS) and their main dude dressing in all black with drab SS gray uniforms for officers established them as the unsympathetic bad guys pretty well.
And remember, military equipment in a capitalist system isnt designed to last forever, if it did how would you sell more? I get the idea that someone conned the neimoidians into being contractually obligated to buy shit droids just so they would be destroyed en-mass and have to constantly be replaced keeping the producers and middlemen in business. And Palpatine had stock in all the companies involved.
Even beyond that, if playing TOR has taught me anything, it's entirely possible that the man in charge of design/production decided to skimp on certain aspects of the Battle Droids in order to fatten his own accounts with the cost difference. Under most circumstances, even the threat of near to 140k droids per ship would likely be enough to cow a great deal of disjointed non-government agencies, and even if they did deploy them, that many, plus tank and fighter support... Who would notice if they were basically plastic? They'll still get the job done, and we can just make more!
So long story short, I'm not convinced they were actually intended to be fielded in a "real" war. They're better than most planetary defense militias and armies of thugs. Against actual soldiers? Not quite as up to par.
Also Captcha, a dump truck is not a limo.
Good man. Its like everyone forgot the wild west was a thing and that the cantina was nothing more than a sci-fi saloon. Who goes around judging people in the old west for killing bounty hunters after their asses?
Besides him being a bad ass makes his redemption at the end all the more sweet
That's what I figured was the whole point. At first, he's a "shoot first, ask questions never" sort of guy who has spent too long with money as his only driving force. By the end, he does the right thing and saves the day, and is basically just as responsible for the Death Star's destruction as Luke.
Greedo can eat shit, bitch knew the risks when he took the job.
>Dude attacks you with fists. You take out a gun and shoot him. You're the guilty party.
What absolute nonsense. People get killed or permanently injured by unarmed attackers all the time. What if the person is larger than you? The initiator of violence doesn't have the right to decide how it ends. The victim is obligated to stop the attack on himself by any means possible. If you don't want to get shot don't create life and death situations. (which every fistfight is) All it takes is one punch to kill.
Since the canon changed. For years, it's been taken for granted that stormtrooper helmets contain an oxygen supply for several hours. Stormtroopers' ability to operate in space and hostile environments, and their penchant for utilizing chemical and radiological weapons, have been referred to in the EU numerous times.
Hell, you don't even have to go into the EU for that - ANH shows troopers wearing backpack oxygen tanks standing outside of the hangar where the Falcon is pulled into the Death Star.
>he was told to play a dorky child and he did that
Same goes for Hayden. His portrayal of Anakin was awkward, stiff, and uncomfortable, but he played awkward, stiff, and uncomfortable damn well.
>he played awkward, stiff, and uncomfortable damn well.
He really didn't. Luke Skywalker, when you look back at A New Hope, was written as a whiny idiot. And yet Mark Hamil still managed to bring a certain charm to the character, and had chemistry with the other cast members. Hayden Christensen, meanwhile, got given a character that was written as whiny and emotionally troubled, and what we got was a character that - well, you just wanted to punch his face in.
Hey guys, I know you told me to get you the Original Trilogy blue rays, but I found a girl who watched them before, so are we cool?
>To be fair, ANH was kinda the same way. Are we supposed to dislike the Empire on the principle of it being a vaguely fascist state? We aren't really given any reason to care about the struggle of the Rebel alliance or what they're trying to overthrow until mid-way through the film when the Empire blows up Alderaan. Are we supposed to care about the dissolution of the unseen Senate? And if this is an Empire, where the fuck is the Emperor?
They did kill Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru.
But there's also the fact that Luke spent much of the beginning of the movie EAGER to go to the Imperial Academy.
I found his stone-cold dickishness on Dac to be pretty hardcore.
"I won't evacuate a single Sith-loving Quarren if it means one of the hive mind species loses a single IQ point because we had to leave behind some parts of the whole, they have the absolute lowest priority because of their betrayal."
>see, I don't think they did. I think that, like an ink-blot test, people heard something that sounded vaguely familiar and ascribed intent where none existed. The reason Jar Jar sounds like a racist stereotype of a black guy is because he was voiced by a black guy who was asked to do a silly voice. I didn't notice until someone pointed it out to me that the Neimoidians sounded Asian, and even now I don't really think they do.
No, Lucas asked for this. It's something he's done in previous movies. Return of the Jedi, the Sullustan and Ewok languages were real world African languages.
In Clone Wars, he insisted that Ziro the Hutt sound like Truman Capote. I swear that I almost walked out of the theater at that point, and the only thing that kept me in my seat was the morbid curiosity regarding whether they could top it.
>As far as I'm concerned, if I'm in some backwater shithole and someone points a gun at me, and I manage to blast them away before they do whatever they're doing, then that's fine. Maybe I'm morally bankrupt, but who gives a shit about some lowlife scum?
Indeed. Han Solo was an illegal drug runner for an organized crime boss. Shooting a guy who was about to shoot him is hardly likely to be the least ethical thing he's ever done.
Empire>Star Wars(I'm calling it star wars and you can't stop me)>Jedi>TFA=Great movies>Most movies>Bad movies=Phantom Menace>Revenge of the Sith>Stuff put out by Asylum Films>Attack of the Clones>Dog shit>Holiday Special
With that sort of selection pressure, how the hell did they not become hyper violent suicide attackers? If you don't get the food, you'll die, so what's the point of being fearful of death?
>No, Lucas asked for this. It's something he's done in previous movies. Return of the Jedi, the Sullustan and Ewok languages were real world African languages.
The actor for Nien was the one who decided to use his native language for the character.
And you just said Ziro was based on an actual individual person.
>The actor for Nien was the one who decided to use his native language for the character.
And Lucas was like, "Go for it!"
>>And you just said Ziro was based on an actual individual person.
And Lucas insisted upon it. Even when people said that it might be a good idea.
What I'm saying is...
1) Lucas has drawn upon real life for langauges/accents/speech patterns for aliens. That in and of itself is not bad.
2) Sometimes his eagerness to do so accidentally results in some pretty silly characters/situations/implications.
>Dude attacks you with fists. You take out a gun and shoot him. You're the guilty party.
m8, if someone comes at me with his fists to murder me, and I have a gun, I'm damn well going to use it.
Real life doesn't give always give us the luxury of "playing fair."
*giant alien attacks*
Agglblhjjjeahwj! Big gooba fish! Use your teeth!
*steps in shit*
Oooh icky icky goo!
*animal farts in face*
*Lands on crotch*
One of the best fan edits is where they scramble the Gungan's voices, add subtitles, and git rid of all of the Otoh Gunga, Planet Core, and slapstick scenes.
All I know of are anecdotes, but there's plenty of stories where an average adult man was killed by a single punch. Often because they went limp and hit their head on concrete.
I suspect part of it is that most men get to adulthood without many "real" fights (ie, something more serious than a shoving/wrestling match). So you have people who don't know how to take a punch getting hit by people who have no cultural bias against "cheap shots".
TL;DR punches are pretty dangerous and there's no distinction for "nonlethal damage" IRL. Somebody who punches strangers on the street deserves whatever they get.