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Pathfinder General /pfg/
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If you are asking for build advice, please mention which third-party books are allowed.

Have you been praying to Shelyn today?

Unified /pfg/ link repository: http://pastebin.com/sYFe4hcd

Previous thread >>44648388
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I want to marry an occultist!
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>>44658230
Shattered Mirror is in Path of War: Expanded.
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If any DSP devs are reading, can I multiclass (or gestalt) medium with Living legend or host of heroes?

Can I multiclass host of heroes and living legend and then metaforge?

IF these multiclass options are open, do I have to have the same spirit/legend going or can I have different, such as having an archamge as my protagonist and an overmind as my monomyth?
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>>44658563

Medium, Living Legend (soulknife), and Host of Heroes (aegis) are all entirely different classes, so yes, you can multiclass between them.

You also don't need to be using the same spirit/legend between them, although they might complement each other nicely if you do, depending. Could have some interesting combinations, thematically, between their abilities.
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>>44658602
Oh yes, nice! Thank you for the quick answer!
Even if I can't metaforge I still want to multiclass Living Legend and Host of Heroes, maybe add some Occcultist from Radiance House and Avatar from Everyman Gaming and be the most possessed hero ever.
>>
Looking at Phantom Sun Stance. If I have that and alchemical paper cartriges for a one handed gun with rapid shot, what is my misfire and kind of action is it to reload? what about for regular bullet/powder?
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>>44658366
>Have you been praying to Shelyn today?

>Gunslinger: No, not sure who she'd pray to out of the Golarion deities - her hometown in the GM's setting for that campaign had a Christianity analogue, likely Protestant-inspired
>Brawler: No, he aligns more closely with Kurgess - and thus also with Desna and Cayden. Still, were he having difficulties with love, he'd likely seek out either her or Arshea.
>Inquisitor: Definitely not. Works for Asmodeus, and she (Biologically speaking. Identity politics take a backseat to enforcing THE LAW in Cheliax.) grew up grumbling like an old man about all the Shelynites in Kintargo.
>Sorceress: No. As a Sylph and a Primal Air Sorceress, she's somehow come to the conclusion that her soul is forfeit to Hsurha, and thus attempts to appease her as a way of easing her own impending servitude. Still squeamish about it, though.
>Spiritualist: Nope, she prefers Gozreh.
>Me, personally: No. Went through a fedora phase (though I could never afford the hat) in my early teens and I never quite recovered. Now I barely believe in anything anymore, and my own capabilities are not among those things I ever believed in. Something in me just shriveled up and died in those years and it's a lot harder to care about things.
>>
from last thread
>How would I go about building a bomber alchemist, and is it any good?
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>>44658888
Grenadier is decent enough, Khorne.
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>>44658888
Nice quads. Bomber is good for damage, but you're forced to conserve ammo if you go for Fast Bombs because you can burn through your entire supply in one or three rounds.
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>>44658366
>Have you been praying to Shelyn today?

No sir, not one bit. Not out of malice or anything, but my prayers go to those who are closest.

My Wizard Conjurist gives his prayers to Asmodeus. As a Cheliax native, he may have some admittedly nastier stuff in his religious books, but we ignore that, and focus on his good teachings. A peaceful, quiet and lawful society is the best society. That's the way it's been for a while now, and it's worked out. We'll have none of that Chaos Deities over here.

LN a best.
>>
i just started pathfinder not to long ago and im a hafling wizard. whats the best way to fuck with my DM and my party
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>>44659134

Be a wizard
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>>44659157
but like whats some good spells to mess around with or at least some websites to get ideas
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>>44658343

Shield Focus is alright, but it 'merely' increases your chances of succeeding on your Iron Tortoise counters. The main draw of it is to get the feat that lets you add your shield bonus to your touch AC.

I recommend getting the Bodyguard feat. It lets you aid adjacent allies for the cost of an AoO.

>>44655316

If it weren't for the Paizo class archetypes, I'd suggest making all maneuver-using classes with poor BAB, and an initiator level-based flat bonus to attack based on whether it should be a medium-BAB class (so the stalker and mystic get up to +5 at level 20), or a full-BAB class (so warder, warlord, etc get up to +10 at level 20). As well as a class feature that lets them qualify for feats as if they were a medium or full-BAB class.

Only issue is that it'd kill the "every attack this round" boosts, and "make a full attack +" maneuvers (and Victory Gambit).... unless said abilities were changed to be based on initiator level (IE: Dragon Assault becomes 'make one attack per weapon (up to 2 weapons) for every 6 initiator levels'), or were like the flurry-esque maneuvers from Broken Blade.

But... it's probably a bit complicated to do, given that you would either have to completely discount haste-alikes (Rapid Shot, etc), or take them into account and add appropriate language.
>>
I'm looking for more information on Yuelral, the elven goddess of Magic. Besides Elves of Golarion are there any other places I should look?
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>Some occultists use this knowledge more militantly, eschewing the binding circles and defensive arts of their colleagues and learning to drive alien presences out—becoming the natural enemy the fiend, the possessing ghost, the summoned badger, and any of the numerous extraplanar beings that might cross their paths.
>the summoned badger

I have to say, between a lot of the ability names and stuff like this, I really like how unserious a lot of the occult psionics writing is.
>>
I killed my first dragon today, /pfg/. Barbarians are fun, as far as martials go. But how much do you think the head of an ancient black dragon would weigh? My character is intending to keep it and have it made into a trophy.
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>>44659551

The obvious question is why you aren't making dragonhide armor out of it. Black armor looks pretty sweet, and those horns would make for an excellent helmet.

Why keep it in your trophy room, when you can show it off on your very own head!
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>>44659566
Well, the druid is making dragonhide armor out of it. My barbarian already has armor (mithral breastplate) but barely cares about that because his AC is hot garbage between rage penalties and Reckless Abandon. As an Invulnerable Rager, he depends on his DR to keep him safe, and the fact that enemies should be dead before they finish chewing through his HP.

I think its head would be too big to make a helmet out of though, but I guess the horns could be cut away and attached to a helm... Not sure whether that'd be what he goes for or not. He's just glowing with pride right now because he finally lives up to his family legacy as an adopted member of the dwarven Dragonbreaker clan.
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>>44659656

I would definitely add its horns to your helmet then. The rest can be decorative dragon face on your helmet.
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>>44658366
Almost all of my Golarion-related characters do. Shelyn a best goddess.
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>>44658925
>Paizo
>Ever fucking wizards over

No, Spellslinger just isn't a great archetype. Generally, a Spellslinger build is just Spellslinger 1/Sorcerer 19. Arcanist works too.
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>>44659234
I had planned to take Bodyguard at level 3, with my bonus feat going towards Defensive Expertise for that sweet shield to touch ac bonus.

Speaking of which, is a tower shield worth it to have?
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>>44660235

I don't know what is worse, their non-admitted bias toward that shit, or the (noticeably large) portion of their customer base who still don't recognize it - or stubbornly refuse to.
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>>44660279
They've admitted it multiple times though, on the forums, talking about magic just being better.

>>44660251
Tower shield is never worth it. If it were the 3.5 RAW tower shield (which was a cloaking device and deflector field), then sure. Otherwise, no. It's awful.
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>>44660279
Bit tired, but is it the caster bias or the anti-gun bias?
>>
>>44660299

Really? I haven't kept up, and in general I try to avoid official forums besides browsing theorycrafting and charop.

>>44660306

The former, but both really.
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>>44660306

Don't forget the anti-Monk bias as well!
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if I am a monk that is using the frenzy strike maneuver on an enemy, do I simply get one attack per limb on the person for a total of 5(punch punch kick kick headbutt)? Do I count elbows and knees for a total of 9?
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>>44660342
Look, buddy. If you want to be the ancient kung fu master, that's cool, but you should expect that you shouldn't do as much damage as a sword. That's just common sense. Sometimes you gotta pay the piper to make your character concept work.
>>44660306
Sorry, but guns would really imbalance our game, so we made them really weak and the only weapon that can critically fail. It's a mechanical consideration, but we did read a Wikipedia article about muskets before we did it.
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>>44660416
Sooo, curious. Would advanced guns wreck a AP?
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>>44660432
Only Giantslayer.
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>>44660299
What's so bad about them, exactly?
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>>44660444
You can't shield slam with them, so unless you have an extra arm you can't 2-hand and you can't TWF with them. So you're stuck tickling someone with a 1-hander, and because they tank your max Dex bonus, they're not even good for Dex builds. And in exchange, you get...2 AC.
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>>44660279
>tfw Paizo's evil iconics are redistributing the balance
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>>44660444
I'm half-asleep, so I just googled to get an answer that explains my point well:

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/48555/10963

This is for 3.5, but it still applies in Pathfinder. Note that the reason this still applies in Pathfinder is because PF tower shields are /significantly worse/ than 3.5 tower shields on account of their ability being nerfed.
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>>44658366
Who IS this Demon????
>>
>>44660432
>1d10+nothing

not unless you're this guy.
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>>44660536
WHERE DID MY PICTURE GO
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>>44660536
What about if you start loading on strikes and boosts with them?
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>>44660547
Strikes are already overwhelmingly likely to hit because you use your full BAB, it would be like whiffing on your first iterative. Unless you're a complete asshammer, your first iterative hits. And then you probably get all your class shit on top of that, and your boost!

Gunsmoke Mystic is OK, but giving it a rifle isn't really going to break anything.
>in b4 Revolver Ocelot (Revolver Ocelot)
>>
>>44660576

I can confirm this, having played around as on in a few short adventures. desu I switched back to playing others like Warder. Something is more visceral and fun as melee, and the numbers were edged up just a bit more.. plus less fighting to get Power Attack equivalents or similar up and running.
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>>44660416
>If you want to be the ancient kung fu master, that's cool, but you should expect that you shouldn't do as much damage as a sword.

What if you're the ancient kung fu master who uses a sword?
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>>44660653
That's fine, but it needs to have little bits sticking out of the blade or little rings hanging off it, otherwise you have no idea how it works.
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>>44660653
"Oh, that's cool then. Carry on."
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So I finally updated the pathfinder iconics chart. Anyone notice anything I missed?
>mfw I'm going to have to update it for 4 more characters soon
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>>44658366

Quick question: Does anyone know where this image is from?
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>>44658366
>love

Your heart can't be broken if you never let anyone touch it.
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>>44661536
Serpent's Skull I think
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>>44661388
> LE Antipaladin
> Of Asmodeus
Wait, what?
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>>44658366
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>>44661388
Wait, what 4 new classes?
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>>44658366
>praying to Shelyn

Nope, too busy praying to swag lord Abadar.
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>>44661620
They're doing 6 new iconics for Hell's Vengeance

>>44661575
New iconic anti-paladin who is a Hellknight of the Order of the Rack from Hell's Vengeance
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>>44660443
How would guns ruin Giantslayer?
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>>44661575
PF Antipaladin is like Blackguard, they're LE, not CE.
And Asmodeus was LE deity last time I checked.
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>>44661667
Ah. I thought they were adding more base classes.

I want to marry an Osirian!
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>>44661675
I thought they could be LE or CE since Calistria has them and she's CN.
>>
According to pathfinder srd they are only chaotic evil, barring archetype chicanery
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>>44661675
They aren't. CE only. Try reading sometime.
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>>44661536
That's actually a green hag in a magical disguise, anon.
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>>44661685
>not wanting to __be_ an Osirioni
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>>44661740
Maybe they're an Insinuator?
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>>44661685
Man that has to be the most fooken awkward stance, I don't really find this pic appealing at all.
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>>44661685
why are they so lewd?
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>>44661831
Agreed desu, with the shitty texturing/coloring and the stupid proportions it's a pretty bad picture before you get the faggots spamming it.
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>>44658888
I'm still buttblasted that there is no Siege Chemist archetype when the Wizard gets a Siege Mage.

Then again - I built a literal battle tank using a construct rider alchemist, so I guess I fix'd my own problem.
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>>44661750

I've learnt that most women are actually hags in disguise, so that's hardly a surprise.
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>>44660416
>that spell description

kek
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>>44661685
That Osirian is ugly! UGLY!
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>I have exactly 12 hours to prepare a decent one-shot in Magnimar

Oh boy here we go.
>>
Don't hide from me /pfg/
Tell me about your adventure path wishlist
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>>44662001
1. Frasier kills herself or himself or whatever it is now.
2. Price kills herself.
3. JJ kills himself.

That's it.
>>
>>44662001
Return to Tian Xia aka Oriental Adventures.

Oh, and while we're at it. New oriental class archetypes.

I want new archetypes for the Samurai such as a Daimyo, Spear Master, Yabusame (horse back archery), Ki-based Swordmaster, and an Initiator Samurai class that gets inspiration from Rurouni Kenshin.
>>
>>44662052
Can't you already do that with Mithral Current on a Bushi warlord? Or Stalker maybe..
>>
>>44662001
>Xanderghul Must Die
>We've got a spaceship, some NPC's to serve as our army, and Mythic tiers. What the heck, let's invade Earth!
>GLORY TO TALDOR
>We can't allow Queen Ileosa to obtain all the pieces of Aroden's corpse! If she does, it'll grant her the power to rule the world! And that's why we're in this horse race!
>>
>>44662162
>Mythic
>Aroden's corpse
>rejecting Arodennukai
disgustingly plebbish/10
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>>44661668
By not killing giants as quickly, efficiently or cheaply as a bow, thereby ruining one partymember's ability to properly contribute to the slaughter of all giants.

Which by the way I'm pretty sure was not actually the point of the module, but my players are nothing if not keen to stay on subject.
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>>44662297
So basically standard Pathfinder issues with guns. Good to know, thanks!

Path of War question: I'm the DM and I'm re-writing some Giantslayer NPCs to account for third party stuff, I'm replacing the 6 levels of fighter the big bad has with 6 levels of Warlord. I give traits to important NPCs and I switched out one of his disciplines for Black Seraph. What are good secondary disciplines for Black Seraph? I'll have enough initiator levels for 8th level maneuvers but I can really only focus on 2 disciplines if I want 8th levels maneuvers in both. Keep in mind that Iron Tortoise won't be a choice, and ranged attacks will have to be thrown for reasons that make sense if you know the adventure path.
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>>44658366

who's the semen demon anon?
>>
>>44658366

Nice tits op
>>
>>44662581
Issues doesn't even begin to describe it.
No other weapon requires class abilities AND a crossbow-like feat chain just to be operational.

If you really, really cheese the fuck out of them, then yes, you can reach sicko DPR. But that's like trying to make a Torpedo-Boat viable in Star Trek Online: SURE you can, but if you'd spent *half* as much effort (in this case levelling 'resources'; ie class/ability and feat choices) in just grabbing Beam-Fire-At-Will like everybody else, you'd do more than double the damage just by smashing your face onto the keyboard at random*

Ancient firearms only have their special ability in their first range increment. Basically nothing in the game that isn't explicitly immobile (AND lacks reach) can be shot by them without being able to retaliate with at least a charge, and often a full-attack! A single gunshot costs 1.1 gold if crafted by a gunslinger (11gp otherwise) which is equal in price to crafting 66 arrows.

Advanced Firearms at higher levels are INFERIOR to Ancient, due to loading rules: They only need a move action to reload metal cartridges, but they are immune to rapid-reload and 'alchemical cartridge' load-speed improvements. They hit vs touch AC out to 5 increments, which is nice, but as you are well aware most d20 system encounters are rarely ever beyond 40-60ft at the best of times; many encounters both from GMs and adventure modules suffer from the kind of "texture pop-in" you saw later racing games had on the 360.

Modern Firearms have a sliding scale of cost depending on model: under base campaign rules a single metal cartridge is 7.5gp crafted, and is worth anything from a single shot (Shotgun, Rifle) to 240 rounds of ammunition (Maxim Machinegun). 7.5gp is 450 arrows. One metal cartridge, in arrows, would be enough for several adventures.

*disclaimer: this does assume you did not remove the firing keys from your keyboard outright
>>
>>44662762 cont.
Finally, High-Tech weapons are unviable without certain build 'cheats'. Understand that they were deliberately and purposefully designed by the dev team to make grabbing proficiency in "Stiched Slings" seem like a comparatively godlike choice.

They're not even all that good (lack the x4 crit of regular firearms), excessively overpriced (20k for a basic energy rifle), quick to run into resistances that shut them down forever by the time you can afford one, might be permanently fucked if they gain the 'timeworn' trait from fumbles or the like (gms are encouraged), oh and a single charge (some guns need more than one to fire) is 10gp and requires two colossal artifacts and minimum two feats (I'm not even fucking kidding you) to craft.

Using tech weapons specifically requires you bypass all these issues through classes like the warsoul, or by creating a robot creature with the weapon.

All that just to bring them up to par.... with guns.
Hell of an uphill battle if you don't know EXACTLY what you're doing!
>>
>>44662762
Ey.

Not sure you're aware, but they FAQ'd Rapid Reload to work on Advanced Firearms. It makes them reload as a free action.
>>
I need some advice/clarification. I want to try and stack archetypes for the gunslinger. I am looking specifically at Pistolero

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/pistolero

and Siege Gunner

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/archetypes/paizo---gunslinger-archetypes/siege-gunner-gunslinger-archetype

It seems like they both modify the Deadeye deed so they can't stack. But a line in Siege Engineer says this. "A siege gunner swaps a pair of deeds of her choosing for the following." Does that mean I don't have to modify deadeye deed with siege engineer or even another deed entirely? Cause its very conflicting.
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>>44662844
Looks like they weren't paying the fuck attention to what they were writing.

It's guns/gunslingers, so I can't say I'm surprised.
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>>44662841
FAQ'd as "should" but never errata'd. By RAW they still do not, and unfortunately GMs can feel free to use that interpretation instead of the FAQ.
>>
>>44662762
Advanced Firearms now reload as a free action if you have Rapid Reload.
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>>44662865
Yeah, well GMs are likewise free to use whatever fucktarded rulings they want.

That's how the game works by its nature as a pen and paper.
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>>44662844
you can keep deadeye and gunslinger's initiative. However: for purposes of archetype combinations, the replaced ones are deadeye and gunslinger's initiative.

just a little extra fuck you for our pistolero friends.
>>
>>44662877
Yes, but there's still a difference between "oh yeah that should've been this instead" and actually fixing it. They explicitly decided not to.

The FAQ 'rulings', when a ruling rather than a suggestion, basically amounts to "oh you can houserule it that way if you really want to". But that does nothing to the actual rules.
>>
>>44662906
There's not really a difference, no.

Both are the devs saying 'it should work like this'

What heading they put it under is irrelevant.
>>
>>44662844
>>44662861
>>44662880


The reason I ask this is because ultimately I want to have a gun wielding Magus. The plan is to have a Level dip in gunslinger with pistolero/siege engineer. The rest Magus(eldritch archer). The siege engineer I want so it converts grit to work with int instead of wis so I don't go MAD with trying to build, dex, int, and wis.Pistolero for that 1 hand gun bonuses. I could go musket master but it does not stack with siege engineer.

Overall I want to have a dip in gunslinger, then the rest magus(eldritch archer). Whats cool is that I don't need a free hand so I can use bows, or 2 handed firearms.
>>
>>44662927
Another thing is that I'm not sure I want the dip in Wizard(Spellslinger) or Gunslinger(some archetype that works well) for my gun slinging magus.
>>
>>44662927
>>44662946
Consider then the Trench-Fighter (fighter) then. level 3 gets you dex to damage with firearm of your choice.

full BAB and 2 feats to go with it
>>
New to pathfinder, was looking to play some sort of support utility magic caster.

Looking into wizard, witch, or arcanist trying to figure out which would be the most useful/interesting to play?

Was also curious if there's a list out there of all the spells you can cast without breaking invisibility.
>>
>>44662969
By support utility do you mean like buffing/debuffing? Bard seems like a cool pick, unless you mean something else.
>>
>>44662969
Invis breaks on ANY attack or spell that targets a foe or includes a foe in its AoE. The only exceptions are spells that specifically only target *allies* in the area such as bless. If it CAN affect a foe, even if beneficial, it'll break.
>>
>>44662969
Wizard is probably the best for utility, closely followed by arcanist. Witch spell-list isn't that great.

As for casting without breaking invisibility, "For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe." That pretty much limits you to buffs and casting crowd-control spells that don't include any enemies(walls and the like, most likely).
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>>44663018
Want a full caster.
>>44663033
>>44663030
What about summoning spells?
>>
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Does anyone know where I can find a pdf of the new Thunderscape setting? I'm checking the trove but I don't think it's there.
>>
>>44662966
My current game is more past and not future.So restricted to not modern weapons. Does this archetype work with that? Also it does not have gunsmith which is another reason to dip into spellslinger or gunslinger to support my eldritch archer
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God damnit, why does no one run Serpent Skull.
I just wanna play a secret Serpentfolk infiltrator/rival to the main enemies, who joins the PCs to remove his rivals and a savage god that would turn his people into unwitting slaves to his whim once more.
Why must playing a snek always be beyond my reach
>>
It seems like I was wrong, but you can stack Musket Master and Siege Engineer together. So I can do Level dip in Gunslinger(Musket Master + Siege Engineer) and the rest in Magus(Eldritch Archer).Would bring a musket and a bow/crossbow as backup.
>>
>>44663298
Then again, if I go Musket Master, I would have to dip 3 levels to get that fast reload to make it as fast a a single firearm which why I wanted Pistolero dip in which I would technically only need 1 to be proficient.

So which is better, Pistolero or Musket Master (plus Siege Engineer) to work well with my Magus(Eldritch Archer)
>>
>>44663290
That last panel makes the entire comic because the way Stark's eyes are drawn it makes his eyes look slightly red, making it seem like he's high as fuck while this is happening.
>>
>>44661541
It's a lonely existence, Anon. Trust me, I know. I tried it. It ultimately didn't work, and I'm glad it didn't.
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>>44662001
Lands of the Linnorm Kings.

1. Fuck hot Ulfen bitches.
2. Fuck hot Tian bitches.
3. Kill Linnorms.
4. Scream WITNESS.
5. Become Linnorm King.

>in summary, pic related
>>
>>44663355
After more research, is it worth getting 5 dip in gunslinger to be able to add Dex to damage for my eldritch archer gunslinger? I mean I am already doing bonus damage with spells and stuff.
>>
One of my players recently threw a tantrum that Path of War classes completely destroyed the versatility of the Pathfinder system. While this guy has some serious mental issues, I also have to question some logic behind it. Casters are casters and always will be casters, though initators certainly seem like classes that can be made up to their strengths, or close by without investing as much time, effort and arguing with the DM for their stuff to work. But other classes...I'd have to agree that it makes every martial or non full caster class mundane and frankly, unecessary. Why would anyone play a gunslinger, a rogue, be it unchained or regular, a monk or any variation off, hell even stronger martial classes like the paladin without at least dipping in the initator classes?

With one level you get fantastic stuff, from warlord gambits to Stalker's deadly arts and ki bullshit, and you get half of their level of maneuvers, stances, counters, boosts. Basically, a DM should either now make every encounter which has martials in them some sort of initators to make it at least somewhat challenging to martials otherwise they would mop up the floor since every initator class has counters and boosts that can either negate or redirect enemy attacks with little to no effort(Warders especially, though Stalkers also have bullshit like disappearing and leaving a trail behind and so on).

So, the more I think of it, the more I think there is some kind of point to what he's saying. Outside of fluff reasons, what is the point of classes now that do not have some kind of a connection to the initiator subset of classes?
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I wonder if there would be design space for sort anti-magic class, dealing with general magic threats and hazards especially, while being still capable in combat against non-magic combatants.

Thematically people who possess 'distortion', which interferes heavily with their magical abilities - in turn, they can turn this distortion against others or utilize it in various manners.
Some bullet-points I was thinking of:

>Full BaB, light armour, medium later on
>Strong will and fort, weaker reflex, SR progression, 4 skill points per level ( int-based class ).
>Powerpoints to fuel various hijinks: dispels, counterspells, anti-magic fields etc.
>Permanent true seeing later on
>Daily disjunctions
>Various other tricks - following through teleports as immediate action, for example.
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>>44663646
The problem is that most classes are garbage, though. Other classes being out stripped because Initators are on the field isn't the fault of the initators -- If the class could hold up on it's own (Half casting classes and up, psionic stuff), then they'd be a viable choice.

Imagine you had a hand shovel. Hand shovels come in different shapes and sizes, but regardless of which, using the hand shovel is a pain to dig a trench with.

Then someone showed you a shovel truck. If you have a shovel truck, you'll find it's much easier to dig trenches than to use a hand shovel. Then you can complain that the shovel truck destroyed the need for hand shovels, but in reality, hand shovels weren't really that great to begin with.

Analogies aside, a DM has to make encounters deal with casters, and more than just combat ones. You can't have a murder mystery when your cleric has speak with dead or zone of truth.

We're just so used to casters warping the meta that we don't see it.
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>>44662001

It turns out that Aroden actually reincarnated him, and one of the PCs is him. Or rather, his power is divided amongst them. The climax of the Adventure Path is to reclaim Aroden's place in the pantheon, with the PCs ruling jointly as the new god.[/url]

I kind of want more waifus, to be honest. The Hell's Rebels path isn't really grabbing me.
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>>44663716
So, basically it's the truth. Pretty much every class that is not a full caster can be chucked in the trash in the favor of initator classes? That's kind of depressing.
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>>44662001
Not start in rusty dagger shank town.
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>>44663833
I mean, sure if you ignore the fact that they said half casters and up are generally fine.
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>>44663833
half casters, unchained monk, and a few other classes that escape my mind (barbarian?) are all good. DSP classes can fit in too.
Fighters, rogues, gunslingers, chained monk aren't really the pinnacle of class design in the first place, so you really should feel bad about throwing them out.
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>>44663864
I'm trying to think of a thing that paladins can do better than initiators aside from healing and I'm coming up empty-
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>>44664040
That's the point. DSP classes are made to make any noncasting class useless.
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>>44664040
Paladin has better full attack DPR, at least.
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>>44664040
Healing/mercies
auras
spell casting
channeled energy
divine bond
divine fucking grace

They're pretty solid all around.
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>>44663046
No? Off to 7chan I go...
>>
>finally get to run my Crystalhue one-shot
>Winter Witch BBEG gets a GM fiat hex
>it forces the party to speak and write in rhyme until they foil her efforts to ruin the holiday by recovering the Zonzon doll she stole

How horrible am I for doing this?
>>
>>44664084
As was said >>44663833 and
>>44663646.

>>44664124
Healing was mentioned. Auras is something most warders have and warlords as well due to their stances from chosen schools. Spell casting for paladins is basically an inferior version of maneuvers outside again, healing. Channeled energy? More healing. Divine bond. Sort of cool. Divine grace? All initiators usually can boost their saves through the roof or counter most of the shit thrown their way anyway.
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>>44664186
k
you totally destroyed my argument senpai
don't play with initiators if you don't like them.
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>>44664220
I know I "destroyed" it and I was not arguing. Just stating facts. I like initators, but I don't like the fact that they obliterate all other classes because they do everything they do, only better aside from one, maybe two class features. You don't need to be a defensive faggot even if you are on 4chan. I don't know.

Even if you went to play a non initator class, there is still literally no reason to not dip in them to get maneuvers which are used at half your level which is frankly monstrous. If it was reduced that you get the same level that you are in the initating class, it would stop people from multiclassing into them...too much at least.
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>>44664245
You aren't arguing, cause you're ignoring what >>44663716 already told you that various pazio classes can stand side by side with the initiators and you just ignored it and >>44663864

If you feel the need to homebrew how they worked, do it. Pazio is shit, DSP is shit, just play what you want and have fun with it. People enjoy DSP partily because of power, but it's more fun to have options and not being another 'I full attack it' faggot.
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>>44664150
Depends, what happens if they try to say something that doesn't rhyme? Are they prevented from saying it? Do they get a will save to try and say it anyway? Can they say it, but they just get hurt in the process?
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>>44664328
Blatantly prevented. That means no ending sentences with "orange" or "silver."
>>
How i wish i had known about PoW before creating my character. Missed opportunities huh /pfg/?
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>>44664656
PoW is shit, >>44664245 destroyed it. Everyone go home.
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>>44664676
Yeah, pointing out that Tier 4 and Tier 5 classes are outstripped by Tier 3 classes sure "destroyed" Path of W-

Wait, no, that's just common sense.
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>>44658366
that dude is creepy as fuck
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>>44664245
The big question is why you think it's a bad thing that people can dip in to get it. Dips are good for the game, anon, and always have been, even since 3e.

>>44664656
Ask your DM to let you respec? In my experience, any reasonable DM allows that sort of thing.
>>
Is there anything that should be changed for the Iron Gods AP? Like with WotR there were issues with trumpets and enemies being a pushover due to mythic ratings
>>
Is the words of power system any good? More or less powerful than standard?
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>>44664883
Tier 3 and tier 2 classes as well are outclassed by it in most cases unless you go dumpster diving and DM fellating for stuff that makes t3 and t2(lower part of it at least) stand out.

>>44665057
I am personally not a fan of dipping, but even if that was not the case, it's the simple of getting too much for a dip. Getting a better save, getting a cool class feature or something? Sure. Getting a whole new system of things for a level in one class that will probably outstrip your main class? That's kind of where I draw the line.

>>44664676
Sarcarsm doesn't fit you well. You did not show one good argument what so ever but quoting the "yeah, if you get handed a better tool than the original one you're kind of dumb for not using it", and the mistruth about half casters being on the same level which they are not.
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>>44665116
Val needs to be aged up so it's not creepy when she gets waifu'd.
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>>44665144
>initiator are better than spellcaster
Oh wow.
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>>44665180
You're supposed to daughteru her.
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>>44665180
Not too worried about that happening, anything else?
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>>44665144
If by "dumpster diving" and "DM fellating", you mean competently building your character with the toolset you've been given by the rules of the game, then yeah. That's what makes Tier 3 and Tier 2 their respective tiers. If you literally have to get down on your knees, pull out the GM's massive, throbbing cock and struggle to deep throat it to get access to stuff the rules say you have access to, something has gone either horribly wrong or horribly right.
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>>44665180
She's half the party's baby sister in our run (two of us chose the trait that had us adopted into the family), so not worried too much about that.
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>>44665209
>>44665216
/pfg/ use to complain about the need to behead those whose sexualize Val, so I thought that was a problem people were having. It's better to sexualize Sarenrae anyway. But I haven't actually played Iron Gods, so I don't really know... I've heard people suggest that the timeworn equipment is really obnoxious, and that the resistances robots have are too much.
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>>44665252
We got through shit fine. We had
Incompetently Built Magus
Bloodrager with the 18-20 reach weapon
Android Warpriest of Abadar VMC Wizard
Brawler.

We recently did a meta thing to "INCREASE RADNESS," which got fluffed as an Androffan project to make the world a more 90s place (bumping the CR of all encounters by 3). We're doing alright with the increased CR (fights actually feel like a threat, now), though we rebuilt at the end of book 1 to:

Competently Built Magus
Warder with the 18-20 reach weapon
Aurora Soul w/ Silver Crane
Steelfist Commando

We all feel like we're on par with each other, no one feels like they're lagging behind, and the mooks are now a fucking threat. Seriously, we pulled the entire top floor of the spaceship by the magus resetting all the robots with a shiny button. Something like 8 ratfolk and 6 Orcs. Our NON initiator characters cut through them like butter, because we actually bothered with positioning and tactics.
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>>44665144
Many of the core paizo classes have initiator archetypes now (Or soon will, come PoW:E) while still maintaining the core flavor of the class.

At the end of the day, you're right.
As a GM I try to heavily discourage people from playing martials without any magic ability in games I run with PoW material.
They aren't designed to the same scale.

Does that make PoW 'wrong' while the original design is 'right'?
Not at all, the choice between them is up to the GM and the group, purely depending on which they prefer.
And I sure as hell know which brand of martials is more fun to play, and also more fun to GM for.


And on a tangent everything you've said about making them less dippable just comes from your own personal dislike of dipping. Pathfinder class design is extremely dip-unfriendly for the most part, so this is also just a change of flavor.
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>>44665353
If you guys have already done all that and adjusted stuff to your liking, why are you asking what needs to be changed in Iron Gods? Clearly you've already got a good grasp on what things need to be altered to fit the theme and power level your group is expecting, or at least certainly a better grasp on it that strangers on the internet will have.
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>>44665252
I'm GMing it and a dungeon in book 2 wiped two parties. It's difficult because now the players have no reason to fight Hellion.
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>>44665403
Because that's someone else and I was the one that asked.
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>>44665416
The thing that wiped them was alerting the boss without using the item they were given to know when stuff is nearby, then going into a room with eight lobotomites, being surrounded and flanked by zombies and a pissed necromancer, then being finished off by an ogrekin barbarian with 28 strength while raging.
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>>44665449
>>44665403
Yeah, sorry for the confusion.

Our Iron Gods game is fun, but it's also rather Animu. The monsters added in by the "RAD" factor (outside of the world's general adjustment) all wear sunglasses and have black trenchcoats.

We actually recently got a 5th (a Rubato) who is essentially CWTV Oliver Queen. YOU HAVE FAILED THIS SCRAPWALL.
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>>44662001
Parallel universes, involving the bad ends of other APs.
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>>44665529
Tell me more about this Rubato.
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Im trying to make a room full of "mirror image" food in a dungeon, what would be the best monster to have in that room whether it be combat or a riddle.

Struggling /tg/
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>>44665376
Thank you. That's all I wanted to hear, really. That there is a difference in power with initators and non initators and that aside from pure casters, initiators are now taking over the game in every other segment, something I find poor, but that's my own personal preference since it ruins like half of the classes ever published.

And the fact that older prewritten adventures, in case you don't have time for your own material, all need to be scaled up massively to prove any kind of a challenge to the party.
>>
>>44665554
He's an adventure archaeologist, heir to an immense trader's fortune from Absalom, come to Numeria to investigate a lead he received, where a fragment of the Primal Song possessed by the Androffan's was transcribed into his mind in the First Tongue (not that he knows that) by a malfunctioning piece of technology (really a carrier for Magical Nanomachines, son) that is now nothing more than an inert lump of Skymetal.
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>>44665592
To be fair, ALL the prewritten Paizo adventure paths need to be scaled up massively even if you aren't using initiators, because they are designed for the absolute bottom of the barrel novice players using (charitably) a blaster wizard, healbot cleric (who memorises heal spells), sword and board fighter, and not-many-skills rogue.
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>>44665660
Eh, at the lower levels at least, Reign of Winter was a good challenge. The party (Warder, Ranger, Alchemist, Rogue (Hidden Blade)) has been struggling in some cases, triumphing in others. They had a sorcerer who dropped, but he was a whiny little bitch who was all "The fuck is this Gygax shit, nigga, falling into magically cold water shouldn't be doing damage to me!"
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>>44658366
>Anastasia Oblomskaya
>insta: /oblomskaya_nastya/
>in russian: Aнacтacия Oблoмcкaя
>18yo

You're welcome.
>>
>>44662162
Sono Chi no Sadame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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>>44665592
So did you just come here to have your preconceived notions validated?
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>>44665592
For the record, as the one who wrote >>44665376 , I should kind of point out I said 'I prohibit martials without any magic ability' rather than 'I prohibit any original class that isn't a full caster'.

The magus and bard, and other 6th level casters can still beat out initiators in versatility, though they lose out on damage and adventuring stamina.
Barbarian can still hold up fine in raw damage (at least, once Broken Blade/ Primal Fury get nerfed), and classes like Alchemist and Investigator are still just really good all-around.

The only classes I think are actually truly invalidated are:
Monk and Rogue (But not the unchained ones)
Fighter
Ranger, maybe (I always just saw rangers as worse druids anyway)
Cavalier
Gunslinger
Ninja
Samurai
Then from the hybrids, maybe the Brawler, Hunter, Slayer
Swashbuckler was never relevant in the first place.

Every other PC class not on that list has a niche that path of war classes can't quite fill; you say it's invalidated half the paizo classes but the only ones it's fully kicked out are the badly-written ones that aren't designed well enough to do the job they're supposed to.
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>>44665824
Yes, man. That's exactly what I came here for.
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>>44665855
We'll have to agree to disagree, then, since I don't see how tier three characters like Investigator, Paladin, Alchemist and the like have much on the initator classes either. Be it survivability, crowd control, pure damage, tanking, auras and the like. Only healing I can see as some of them doing better. And gunslingers at least get damage through the roof if not much else.
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>>44665554
Named dude, can you offer me any clarification on these rules? I am a monk that wants to know how much smackdown happens while frenzy striking
>>44660410
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>>44665925
Paladin is Tier 4, not Tier 3.

You're also only considering combat, which is just one aspect of the game, and I think that's the problem. The other listed classes have much more to offer outside of combat compared to the initiators. Everything you listed was a combat aspect, and while skills can get you a fair bit of distance outside combat, spells and infusions can get you a much, much further distance.
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>>44665925
>gunslinger
>damage through the roof

The fuck are you smoking? Maybe you should just admit that you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.
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>>44665925
Was tanking even an option before? Like was the idea even put into pathfinder at all.
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>>44665925
Anon, perhaps the biggest thing we're not seeing eye-to-eye on is that there are far more ways to be good in a campaign than being hypercompetent in a fight.

Something I found quite funny in a game I played recently was that I built a really high-tuned mystic/aegis multiclass that had loads of utility, like teleporting, mind-reading, flight, and other things at will, along with high damage and good defenses.
I was good aligned and wanted to get into a cave but there was a guy blocking the way, and this guy hadn't done anything wrong so I didn't want to smack him down.
I sat there thinking for a good while because despite everything I could do, I had no good way of nonviolently getting past a guy guarding a door.
Magus, Alchemist, Bard? They'd just cast invisibility or gaseous form or something and waltz right past. Hell, even the rogue would be able to pull off some charisma skill that I couldn't afford to invest in.
Winning battles is not all there is to winning pathfinder.
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>>44666015
He's probably referring to the Double Barreled X exploit, where use of a Double Barreled Pistol or Double Barreled Musket literally doubled the number of attacks you got in exchange for -4 on the attack roll.

I would know. I had a Quickdraw Gun Twirling Double Barreled Pistol using Two Weapon Fighting. The DPR on that character was absurd, because I at level 10 I had 10 attacks per round at 1d8+Dex+Enhancement+Deadly Aim.

Admittedly, she was a Trench Fighter and not a Gunslinger, because I needed feats to pull that shit off, but still. Gun DPR can be off the hook.
>>
It is funny how DSP and Paizo have both managed to keep community arguments alive going on the better part of a decade or more after they originally began with 3e.

An entire decade of hearing the exact same stupid shit flung.
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>>44666102
The nature of man never changes.
As long as there's something appropriate to apply a certain complaint to, you know someone will make it.

Reminds me of that screenshot floating around of that email dated mid-1990s complaining about how there's less good anime than before and it's because the industry is suddenly more focused on cute pandering than the good old classics used to be.

The nature of man never changes, anon.
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>>44666102
Well, I haven't heard some of the old anti-psionics arguments for a long time. But, maybe that's because I mostly hang around /pfg/, which is generally pro-Psionics.
>>
What is your favorite non 3pp weapon type?
Mine is the fauchard because of its reach, critical range and trip ability.
>>
How do I roleplay a Paladin of Apsu properly, as in "without being boring or a party cop "?
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>>44666161
I havn't heard any anti-psionics lately either, and I do nose my way in the official forums every now and then. And I remember how bad the 2e psionics were.

Remind me again of the arguments?
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>>44663646
>While this guy has some serious mental issues
Is about 90% of it
The other 10% is the PoW classes obsoleting classes that are shit to begin with (this is why the PoW ones obsolete them by their very existence). Not much different from what Ninja did to Rogue.

The martial classes, ESPECIALLY pre-unchained/weaponmaster, were either partial spellcasters and able to reach "can do okay with some things and be good at one" levels of quality with HEAVY optimization, OR were outright not actually even good at what they're claiming they'll be great at.

So yes.
When a class comes out that's actually good at combat AND has a decent amount of versatility and utility, it blows "CAN'T FUCKING DO ITS OWN FUCKING JOB" classes out of the water.

But you have to accept that. Because the alternative is "full-caster makes gods bow to him but no you can't be any good with fight-class because you're a worthless mundane who doesn't deserve to affect this encounter or the campaign. Fuck you and fuck you for ever having wanted to be relevant, when even the druid is better at melee than you are"

is it REALLY a problem to make that last part obsolete?

Fuck no. Have fun instead!
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>>44666181
Greatsword.
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>>44666181
Does 3pp even do special weapons?

I'm personally a fan of the Scythe, especially when paired with a partner or two with Butterfly Sting.
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>>44665736
y wood i want some groce trannys instagram
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>>44666186
>Dont want to be restrictive towards party members
>Plays a Paladin
If you dont want to be that guy then dont pick a class with built in alignment restrictions.
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>>44666229
Alignment restrictions apply to yourself, not your party, anon.
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>>44666181
It's shameful, but the Falcata is just so cool both in mechanics as a one-handed weapon and as a design. It's a shame that it's an Exotic and the crit range + 1-handedness is the ONLY thing unique about it.
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>>44666194
A lot of them were levied against specific powers, and I think some of those are no longer applicable. There's still Psychic Reformation though, and I HAVE heard people complaining about that one. Then... People would complain about how nova-capable psionic characters were because they could dump so much PP into a single power, but that was always answered with a reminder that there's a limit on how much PP can be invested in a single power. One of the big ones (in terms of how common it was) has always been arguing that the flavor of psionics clashes with the flavor of game, which is one of the dumber argument to begin with and has a lot of counterarguments.
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>>44666216
Before they nerfed it to standard, I had a scythe build for Merciless Butchery using Sanctified Slayer. I mean, it still technically works, but it's just not the same, not getting a up to two CDGs in the same turn.
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>>44666229
Paladins and Clerics risk falling if they knowingly allow the individuals they hang out with (ie the rest of the party) to perform acts that go against their code of conduct.
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>>44666252
They apply to your party as well, Paladin, as written, can't knowingly work together with evil characters.

Which is not too much of a limit, but it's there.
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>>44658834
>or Arshea
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>>44658366
>sausage toes
>awful nail colour
>neglected to the point where it's grown out a half centimetre of nail

would not party with
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>>44666344
I have no evil characters in my party. GM banned all evil and chaotic (except CG) alignments. I wholeheartedly support this. The question still stands, though.
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>>44665996
I can consider you to be correct in diplomatic/intellectual situations. That's where you are right. In everything else, I still think initators are better. Better in perception, better at searching, better at stealthing around. As for paladins,you're technically correct, though they are on a very, very high level of tier 4.

>>44666028
There are feats for it, like Antagonise which suggests that it was supposed to be used for that thing alone.

>>44666015
All I know is that by level 9, our gunslinger clears over 100 damage in a round. And if any of that damage is a critical hit, that number goes higher. Not to mention that retardedly cheap enchant that makes reloading anything a free action or some shit.

>>44666048
In theory, you are correct. In practice, it will resort to violence if there is no other way. And yeah, eventually that will lead to a tpk because a semi competent DM will send karmic retribution if the party is a bunch of murderous thugs all the time, but in pathfinder, hell in most d20 settings, violence can settle most things. Breaking down walls, taking out high profile targets, feinting your targets and then killing them and the like.

>>44666161
As far as psionics go, that's a bone to pick for another time, though I do not have enough experience with it, aside with the telekineticist guy who had DC's on his domination spells so high that he pretty much could have an army of high leveled people fighting wars for him with an absurdly low chance of failure.

>>44666196
I said that I liked the concept, so maybe it's a harp against how they made the previous classes. I don't like the dips, I don't like the fact that from all the classes, all you can really see these days is going to be a bunch of initators fucking around. The idea that the core classes get an archetype to get into initating are good, I would support that more than just taking one level of initator stuff and wrecking shit all around.
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>>44665144
>Tier 3 outclassed
No, they're Tier 3. They hold the same ground as alchemists, investigators and their friends.

>Tier TWO outclassed
So. Are you lying, twisting facts, just that dumb, a PFS shill, or all of the above?

I'm not one to assume incompetence that which can adequately be explained by malice, so I've got a pretty good idea which three it is...
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>>44666399
If everyone already more or less has the same alignment then why bother asking these questions?

Just go nuts and detect and smite away.
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>>44666287
Ah, the old 'psionics=scifi' argument.
Never mind that 1st edition ADD had things like a dungeon that was actually a crashed alien ship, or Blackmoor. Can't have sci-fi stuff in my fantasy game, no no no. Never mind that one of the inspirations for DnD was fucking pulp.
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>every time I play sorcerer I can't help but pick the tattooed archetype
>can't stop myself from taking craft: tattoo, and then inscribe magical tattoo
>my GM has okayed letting me basically have a second set of wondrous items worn via tattoos, with the stipulation that any tattoo version of a wondrous item has double the base price if it was originally a slotted item
>trying to limit myself from being too retarded, but I'm already wondering whether or not I can get away with having shit like tattoo haversacks/portable holes so I don't need to worry about losing them.

So who else has gotten creative with Inscribe Magic Tattoo? Has anyone else's GM allowed this kind of thing? I remember a month or two ago someone was asking about whether this kind of thing was an actual legitimate use for IMT, and /pfg/ said it was perfectly reasonable, if silly.
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>>44666485
That's not the question. I asked how to roleplay a paladin of Apsu, the god of all dragons, and not seem boring or generic. Detect and Smite all the time is boring and generic.
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>>44666502
People are just fags, Holmes. They don't understand true justice.
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>>44666441
Your GM allows you to murderhobo?

Jesus H. Christ, get a new GM. If we tries to pull that shit, there would be consequences like a hammer coming down on a priceless antique vase, and we're the vase.
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>>44666524
I always get a simple tattoo that gives me the powers of a resonant clear spindle ioun stone in a wayfinder.

Constant duration protection from charm and compulsion effects.

Beyond that, not as much, actually, or at least not much super-expensive stuff. They can get defaced and destroyed more easily than regular magic items.
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>>44666090
Most groups simply locked it to "once a round like manyshot" and it had been fine that way. The nerfs just go too far.
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>>44666181
The Madsen, because of its reach, critical multiplier, and line ability.
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>>44666534
>Plays literal embodiment of generic goodness in a generic good vs evil game
>Doesnt want to be boring and generic

Too bad anon, but you chose to be a paladin and thats what they do. Seeing as the party outlook has already been decided then theres nothing much for you unless you want to mess your CG party member.
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>>44665695
It's absolute shit. Don't try it.
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>>44666619
Holy shit this is madness. It's like a "fuck you" from the GM.

Maybe it's possible to force the enemy to waste attacks of opportunity on the party tank.
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>>44666441
>In practice, it will resort to violence if there is no other way.

Dim view of players you have there.

>eventually that will lead to a tpk because a semi competent DM will send karmic retribution if the party is a bunch of murderous thugs all the time

Or maybe an actually competent DM will make actual good reasons why you can't just kill NPC X, or if the party is really ruthless, start to come up with challenges that genuinely can't be solved with violence.

On the other hand, >>44666465 you're lying to yourself if you think that a well-built initiator only breaks even with magus in combat.
Their damage per round output and the amount of times per day they can dish it out is a league above most core T3 classes.
Remember that even some DSP devs consider the Warder to be T4 - because it's extremely good at combat, but that's pretty much the one thing its class features let it do.

Anon is saying it bugs him how initiators take all relevance in combat.
The appropriate reply is 'combat isn't everything', not 'investigator can keep up with warlords in damage'.


Once again, >>44666441, I feel that from what you're saying, what bugs you more than everything else is that you think the initiators reduce the variety of viable class options for the players.
I think if you roll together the 6 full initiator classes, the initiator archetypes of all the paizo classes, the templates, and all the different combinations of disciplines, you'll find it brings its fair share of variety to the table in itself.
Yes, they'll all use the initiating system, but is that really, /really/ worse than every martial character having to use the setup/move/full attack system?
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>>44666619
Be an ass and carry a bow, and use it whenever you actually want to do damage, and only quickdraw that weapon when you need to rocket jump.
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>>44666502
The thing is that while the original argument may not be very good either, the rebuttal 'the setting is already a mess so psionics won't make it any worse' is just as empty and cheap.

Many people play dnd/pf for their classic medieval fantasy.
If there's an official setting with a crashed spaceship, they can cut it.
If they feel that psychic powers don't belong in medieval fantasy, guess what? It's in their rights to cut it.

"It exists in the official materials, therefore you are compelled to want it and accept it" will never be sound.
>>
>>44666662
>>44666619
Why is that so bad?

Point Blank Master will allow me to stop provoking attacks of opportunity at lvl 5:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/point-blank-master-combat

It doesn't seem too horrible, as Rapid Reload + the Metal Cartridges allow me to reload it as a free action. The biggest concerns I have are the cost of firing the thing (which the DM even said "Ammo is going to be scarce for you") and the fact I have to be close when I fire to do dmg (which I will need to constantly shoot myself 5 ft backwards with the disengage, or I will never get a full attack).

I just got into the game and the DM seems extremely hyped about this gun, so I don't wanna be a dick to him. I just think he thinks it's better than it is.
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>>44666673
Of course not. That would be horrible all in itself, and I am one of the proponents of martials being given nice things. Hell, years ago when we played 3.5 I gave my fighter and ranger homebrewed tome of battle maneuvers to give them more stuff to do. But the crux of the matter remains that the core classes simply are outdone in every way by the initators in everything they can do in combat, and by pretty big margin of what they can do out of combat.

>Dim view of players you have there

Just speaking of experience from every group I usually played. Could they all be shit? Possible, but not probable. In all scenarios, people try the "nice guy" route and when and if that one fails they go through the "Butcher things" route. I'm at a loss right now at what exactly can't be solved with violence, or at the very least not be solved on a short term basis with it. Sure, your campaign will suffer, but you're the DM and you have to answer for it.

>>44666550
There are consequences, of course. But then everything is right for a few sessions or so and the cycle repeats itself. It's pretty draining, all in all.

>>44666465
You should probably read what you are writing. It will help you.
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>>44666716
>'the setting is already a mess so psionics won't make it any worse'
You are looking at this from a position that flat out helps your argument.
The argument being put forth is "Psionics, and sci-fi as a whole, have been a part of the game since day 1, and your dislike of that does not make it any less relevant or a core conceit of the game itself".
>>
>>44666778
>Level 1 start
>You won't be able to use your gun properly without getting smacked for the first four levels in the game, which are the most lethal for PCs because rusty dagger shanktown

Do we seriously need to explain why this is bad?

Like, I get that you want to like it because you have a cool character idea, and the GM thinks his gun idea is cool, but seriously, that is a pretty dodgy setup.

I suggest that you can agree to it but carry around a normal ranged weapon as backup whenever it gets too inconvenient to use the weapon.
It miiighhtt turn out fine, but there are just so many things that could go wrong.
>>
>>44666716
You're right, of course, but by the same merits people who don't feel the fluff of psionics is a problem, or who actively like the fluff, have just as much grounds to say it should be included. That argument really isn't an argument, it's a statement that you dislike the flavor and don't want it in your setting because of that. That's fine, but it's not a reason you can use to convince other people that psionics are bad.

And besides that, it's ignoring the option of refluffing psionics (which I admit some people are not okay with doing, probably including most people who would reject the initial fluff in the first place).
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>>44666851
Or, play a savage technologist and have the backup strat of punching things.

>>44666778
Will you have the option to enchant it? If not, you'll need to work around it a bit; probably make it your bound item weapon with some class.
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>>44666778
just lay your dumbass on the ground and eventually get a belt of the weasel.

Reloading provokes and so does shooting until you get the feats for both. The movement from being blasted back will also provoke and each shot will be it's own separate movement for provoking. So you are going to run up to something for max damage potential and eat a butload of AoOs probably.

At least you get a fancy deadshot though.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-of-the-weasel
>>
>>44666848
A core conceit of the game? Sure.
Does that mean it needs to be a core conceit of the game that many DMs want to run? No.

If someone doesn't like psionics because they feel it doesn't fit, you aren't going to convince them otherwise by saying 'it's not that psionics don't fit the game, the truth is that the entire game doesn't fit what you want'.

I like psionics myself, but I feel that the two sides will never be able to properly reach an understanding if they each believe that they can destroy the other side's argument with a single statement
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>>44666880
I can enchant and tinker with the gun. I don't know how it'll work out, but I hope it won't be another hoop I have to jump through.

>>44666851
You make a good point. I'll look into maybe carrying a normal musket or something at the same time; using the shotgun only when they come in close.

But then that would overburden my 11 strength character (he is .5 pounds from being overburdened as it is). I'll have to think harder into this.

Nonetheless, thanks Anon.
>>
Is there an initiating archetype for Slayers?
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>>44666942
they haven't touched the advanced class guide, buddy. and they won't for a while.
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>>44666942
It doesn't look like it no.

Here's the most up to date list (I think)

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444869-Dreamscarred-Press-Path-of-War-Expanded!-(Thread-VII)
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>>44666570
I hadn't actually thought of doing a wayfinder+clear spindle tattoo yet, I'll have to look into that later.

>easily defaced and destroyed
I am very thankful that I have either just have not had to deal with this, or my GM hasn't thought of trying that yet.

Offhand, I've mainly just used it as a way to slap muleback cords, weapon tattoo, and a handful of cheap "useful, but I could wear something way better with this slot" items. Stuff like Boots of the Cat and Heavyload Belt are decent as well. having a 300 lb light load as a sorcerer is also hilarious, if pointless.
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>>44666820
>There are consequences, of course. But then everything is right for a few sessions or so and the cycle repeats itself. It's pretty draining, all in all.

No, like, that's a "rocks will be dropped and you all will die" type of offense. Not to mention all the missed XP.

Our GM, at least, incentivizes us to do things out of the box and stealthy like, throwing out bonus XP on a per session basis, to each person. Not killing anyone gets us 10% more XP onto our session total, stealthing past encounters that we don't need to fight grants bonus XP as a creature of CR=ECL, extensive exploration and discovery of alternate/hidden routes grants XP as per CR = 1/2 ECL per route/hidden area found. XP in general is only awarded on a "Task Complete" basis, rather than an encounter basis, too.

Being the "MVP" of the session also got an additional XP reward.
>>
>>44658366
>Have you been praying to Shelyn today?
Nope, I have been praying to my lord of the booze and adventure.
>>
>>44666524
You're already answered your own question, you need to tattoo the effect of a portable hole, bag of holding, handy haversack, or other extradimensional carrying space into one or more of your orifices.
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>>44666904
Moving out of the area likely won't provoke any AOO's, due to it being an acrobatics skill... hopefully. I dunno; this DM I am hoping has my best intentions (due to the fact he was kinda pushing for the character idea hard, not me, after hearing my voice for the character).

>a fancy deadshot
What do you mean by that? I don't seem to understand.

>prone
Aren't I unable to use ranged weapons while prone?
>>
>Instant weapon grants access to any weapon you want and has great synergy with greater magic weapon and polymorph spells
>No 9th level arcane with 3/4 BAB

Anyone tried an eldritch knight built around turning into a dragon and conjuring random weapons like the motherfucking green lantern?
>>
>>44666984
Sometimes I forget that not only do some people in /pfg/ still use XP, but even still track XP individually for each PC, instead of having everyone level up together.
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>>44667029
Never been in a campaign where the party sometimes breaks up to pursue individual interests I take?
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>>44666524
I know that feeling anon.
>all my characters have tattoos, stigmata, face paint, ritualistic scars, or some combination of the four
>sometimes I justify it mechanically, but other times I just like how the image looks in my head
>even though I'm not spec'd for crafting I want to take Inscribe Magical Tattoo
>>
>>44667006
"Fire while Prone: Firearms, like crossbows, can be fired while their wielders are prone."

Nevermind. I'm able to see what is up.
>>
Is there a way to pierce fear immunities for the purposes of demoralization?
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>>44667052
>Your reward for choosing to forsake the rest of the party for your own more dangerous interests is that you get to be better than them now
>Now that you are better than them you are capable of taking on even tougher challenges where the rest of the party would only drag you down, getting you more individual exp and widening the gap further

It's a wonder anyone stays in the party at all with a system like that.
>>
>>44666916
>>44666848
I think Psionic's main flaw is just how heavily it's become leaning on the whole "powers of the mind and new-age crystals" theme. If it was originally written to just be "an alternate power source for magic" I think it would have a lot more fans; it certainly makes more sense from a video gamer's perspective.
>have set amount of magical energy which can be recovered rarely through items, or at the start of each day
>can spend that energy however you wish with the spells/powers/abilities that you know until you run out
>>
>>44667029
I stopped using XP ages ago. I'd rather not have my campaigns have a hard limit on how long they can last and how fast they can be paced. XP is such a narrow confine to work within, it ties you to a rigid timeline of exactly how much players can accomplish per level.

Unless of course you slow down the XP track way beyond normal, and you cut XP gains, don't give XP for story-relevant shit, and don't use the XP-by-CR table. In which case, why are you using XP at all?
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>>44667029
Oh, our levels are locked to each other, and advance when the GM says they advance (usually every time we go to a new location, explaining the advance in skill as stuff we worked on in our travel/down time). The XP is for buying more feats, which cost 50,000 a pop.

Right now, we each have something like 12 feats, on top of the ones we'd normal have (I think one guy is lagging behind at 11, and another just got his 13th). Pretty much the first thing we all got as a group was SF (Stealth), Stealthy, and Hellcat Stealth, which has the hilarious combination of us literally walking past guards in full construct armor without them noticing us.
>>
>>44667117
Not my fault that your group is shit at micromanagement.
>>
>>44667052
I have actually. In multiple cases even, although there was only one where the party would be separated for periods longer than a single session. Even still, XP was tallied for the group rather than the individual. The assumption was that PCs who got less XP "on screen" were still doing enough important stuff "off screen" to be gaining some XP.

That's how my group has always done it, although at /pfg/'s almost constant bitching about XP when the topic is brought up, I've considered a few alternate ways of doing it, including just tossing the system out in favor of the "you guys level when I think it feels appropriate" approach. In the end though, I'm sure we'll stick with doing things the way we have in the past.
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>>44667159
Oh, right, and coordinated stealth, so we all take the highest roll.
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>>44667117
Such things do not earn xp, but gear, and more often, non-monetary rewards.
>>
>>44667117
you realize if you're higher-level you don't earn your next level as fast AND you gain XP a bit slower, right?
>>
So I'm finally getting back into 3.p and the dreamscarred stuff is exactly what I used to enjoy (Psionics, Tome of Battle, Warlocks, Pact Magic, Incarnum).

I know the big Pact Magic book is still in the works, but for dreamscarred I'm about to buy Ultimate Psionics, Psionic Bestiary, Path of War, Focused Disciplines, Seventh Path, Mythic Psionics, Path of War Expanded, the Wilder book, Akashik Mysteries, and Psionics Augmented.

Am I missing anything or accident buying something twice from material being compiled or added? Also, am I getting anything that's about to get rereleased?
>>
>>44661388
Valeros is female?
>>
>>44667128
Personally, I like the general New Age mysticism theme, which is ironic considering how much I actually disbelieve in and hate New Age mysticism in real life. Then again, perhaps that's part of the appeal, since it's drawing on something that doesn't exist in real life but would be cool if it did. I definitely like it a lot more than Paizo's generic "spoopy occult mysticism" psychic magic, which is appears fairly boring and uninspired to me.
>>
>>44667232
don't get Psionics Unleashed/Psionics Expanded, and you're good, I think
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>>44667245
Eh, I'd waifu him. He'll look nice in a dress.
>>
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>>44666673
>They must be T2 because they do more damage than many T3 classes

Dude, are you even listening to yourself?
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>>44667261
I dunno, I kinda like the fluff myself, then again I was more of a occult nut when I was younger anyways.
>>
Is there an initiator archetype for antipaladin?
Is there ever likely to be such a thing?
>>
>>44667276
Mkay, any promo codes I should know about before dropping $300 on this?
>>
>>44667117
A 5th level Adventurer is usually dealing with kingdom scale problems and a 7th level Adventurer is so far ahead of your typical rank and file that he typically leads guilds/bands/cults.

So yes its quite normal for mid to high level adventurers to pursue their own agendas and have a degree of responsibility relevant to their specialization.

If your GM cant run that scale game then its perfectly acceptable to still be murder hoboing it at those levels but dont bunch the rest of us up with your shit tier under achieving group.
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>>44667309
There's Fiendbound Marauder but technically speaking that's a warder.

But, thematically, I mean
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>>44667328
garethismyhusbando gets you $20 off your final checkout price.
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>>44667410
chabingerwhen actually adds another 20 instead though, so don't get them confused.
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>>44667210
Only in 3.5, not in Pathfinder. The relative gap will diminish, obviously, but unlike in 3.5, it'll always be there because there are no rules for gaining less XP if you're higher level than the rest of the party.
>>
>>44667232
Mythic Psionics comes with the standard caveats about Mythic.

Which Augmented ones are you getting? One of them is technically in UltPsi. If you're snagging PsiAug: Wilder and/or Focused Disciplines you'll be fine.
>>
>>44667466
Hi Gareth, hope surgery stuff went/is going well.

I'm the anon from probably 5-6 /pfg/ threads ago who asked about the soulknife's armored blade archetype, and whether the mind blade and mind armor got their own enhancement bonus "pools" vs. having to share one pool among both setups.

Did you ever get an answer from the other devs on that, and I missed it? If not, that's fine too, my DM is rolling with "separate pools" until proven otherwise which is, we think, RAI.
>>
>>44658366
Who is this cummy mummy?
>>
>>44667599

>>44665736
>>
>>44667577
They do indeed each have their own (albeit somewhat reduced) pool. Your interpretation is correct.
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>>44667722
Thanks man.
>>
Are there any non 3pp ways to avoid death effects?
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>>44667466
You're forgetting PsiAug: Soulknife, bruh. T-T
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>>44667765
Didn't think it was available for sale yet or I would've suggested it, broseph.
>>
When harrow medium?
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>>44667776
Honestly, I turned it in months ago, I have no idea... >.>
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>>44667727
Yeah a lot of races have racials to resist them. Some classes have class features against death effects. Stuff like that.
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>>44667777
>dat number
NEVER
EVER ;_;
>>
>>44667727
You mean like Death Ward?
Among others. There's actually quite a few ways, and the strongest ones are all 1pp; the 3pp ones are usually just "oh you get this 1pp effect"
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>>44667828
Death ward only gives a save bonus though.
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>>44667765
>>44667785
Hey Errant, I know, we love you and all... buuuuut in general, you'll want to avoid emoticons if you can help it.

By the way, on an unrelated note, I've heard rumors that the Iconic Warder is your wife's character. Is this true, or is it simply unfounded?
>>
>>44667900
>tumblr nose
how about no?
>>
>>44667900
No emoticons? ( - 3 - )p
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>>44667900
I honestly don't understand the hate for emoticons. I mean I can understand the hate for some of the more egregious ones but some aren't so bad.
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>>44667970
On imageboards you usually use images.
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>>44667900
Emoticons 4eva

But seriously, yes, the rumor is true on that front. Inspired by a character of hers. So is the Mystic, actually.
>>
>>44668017
Sometimes emoticons are just faster, or you're on a phone and don't have images saved.
>>
>>44668056
Almost forgot to add in that the Iconic Warlord (Elric I will slay you if you call him Todd again!) Ryall is based on a character of mine.
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>>44668068
Of course his name isn't Todd.

He's clearly more of a Larry.
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>>44668068
What about katar dorf?
>>
>>44668093
This is why we can't have nice things.
>>
>>44668093
>>44668197
Speaking of nice things, what's going on with the gofundme stuff?
>>
>>44668220
I've been talking with the boss to finish getting this all together, so trying to get rewards done for this ASAP. Ideally this weekend - I've had several people not respond yet, sadly, so I've tried to track a few of those down.
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>>44668246
Well, I ask because I was one of the ten people who paid for a commission and haven't really gotten a response email from you guys or anything yet.
>>
>>44668312
I only just recently have been able to stomach using my arm and typing at the computer again, so that's entirely my bad. Mostly it's been a haze of pain and physical therapy for the past month and a half.
>>
>>44666356
Gets it from his mom.
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>>44668338
Hey man, it's cool. I donated so you could get better. The commission was a nice bonus. Take the time you need.

I look forward to hearing from you when you are able to respond.
>>
I asked this before and no one seemed to notice except to tell me things I already know about firearms.

Path of War question: I'm the DM and I'm re-writing some Giantslayer NPCs to account for third party stuff, I'm replacing the 6 levels of fighter the big bad has with 6 levels of Warlord. I give traits to important NPCs and I switched out one of his disciplines for Black Seraph. What are good secondary disciplines for Black Seraph? I'll have enough initiator levels for 8th level maneuvers but I can really only focus on 2 disciplines if I want 8th levels maneuvers in both. Keep in mind that Iron Tortoise won't be a choice, and ranged attacks will have to be thrown for reasons that make sense if you know the adventure path.
>>
does anyone remember a specific storytime on tg one time about a gm that used a guy who acted like BANE as a paladin of yaweh that invaded the dnd world and was stealing their religion from places and adding it to his own and the players had to use cuthulu artifacts to combat him? I'm trying to find a cap or archive of it and coming up blank.
>>
>>44668246
Ahahaha.... I think I might be one of those guys. How should I respond, if I haven't?
>>
>>44668656
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/22578538/ ?
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>>44667815
Don't lie pls.

;_;
>>
>>44664150
Our DM had a curse like that once.

No speaking, except for rhymes.

We spent in-game MONTHS looking in the caves under the town for the source due to the fact that the caves were fucking massive and we didn't listen to how long the DM said it was taking.

So months of only being able to speak in rhyme I was good at it, so my Fighter was fine just rhyming everything he said.

The wizard on the other hand... as far as he's concerned, that never happened.
>>
>>44668824
Our DM tried that once with a lisp.
He very quickly allowed us to get it fixed for free.

We had embraced it to the point of utter fabulosity, and he just couldn't take it anymore.

THAT'S how you remove curses.
>>
How to I play a chosen one paladin with 7 int and 11 wisdom? Just a punk kid who thinks he knows it all?
>>
>>44669224
Wouldn't that hurt his cha?
>>
>>44669224
That's a way to put it. Or you can play as your ordinary bad japanese animes protagonist - a kid who is clueless about the cosmic struggles of bad guys versus good guys, is socially inept and lightly autistic, but has a bullshit power for bullshit reasons - that's what the archetype is about.
>>
>>44669284
>>44669261

I have a 19 charisma and 20 strength. Should I just take notes from Kamina?

Also, my DM let me be a paladin for Cayden Cailean too. So I figured if I had to, I could just pretend to be a drunk all the time.
>>
>>44669336
You absolutely must.

In both cases.
>>
>>44669336
Pretty sure a Paladin of Cayden would play like Kamina
>>
>>44668677
Go to the gofundme site and send a message to me there. I'll get back in touch with you from there to hammer out the details.
>>
So, a while back there was an anon who was talking about a waifu his party picked up in Maiden Mother Crone by the name of Caigreal. Did he ever post the follow-up to that story? Because I want to know exactly what happened next.
>>
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>>44658366
>Have you been praying to Shelyn today?

sorry, Rahadoum is where i make my final stand,

all these gods be damned....
>>
>>44669534
woops, I did the same, and as anonymous, I have the response email from the site, if there is someone I can send it too
>>
>>44669607
I (original procrastinanon), also did it as anon - or, at least, none of my usual usernames/passwords are working on the site. Luckily, dug up the e-mail, it says to respond.
>>
>>44669643
To reply to the e-mail, to respond, I mean.
>>
>>44669534
so, im in a pickle, my email went to the bin of my server, and got deleted
I did however take a capture of it just in case, what is your email?
>>
hey Gareth, this thread is almost done for. Should we include your guys' patreon in the OP for the next /pfg/?
>>
>>44669764
Not DSP, but I support it being included, at the very least under their section in the link repository
>>
>>44669795
I thought it'd be nice, but I also figured it was worth asking 'cause maybe they DON'T want us to (or it can't be or some other legalistic thing).
>>
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>>44669764
I...honestly, I didn't want to be presumptuous enough to ask, but it'd be a hell of a kindness. If /pfg/ doesn't mind, I'd be touched.

Link's here if you need it: https://www.patreon.com/dreamscarred?ty=h
>>
>>44669764
Should also put up the link to the psionics occult playtest and remove the individual links to Forrest's stuff.
>>
>>44669795
It's got my support. Probably best to put it in the DSP section of link repository, so people don't cry "SHILLS" or whathaveyou.
>>
>>44669607
>>44669643
>>44669660

Well, I'm uncomfortable posting my email here to be honest, so... go to Dreamscarred, GitP, or Paizo's site and send me a PM there with your email and I'll email you back then? Send me a screen shot or fwd me the email that you got from gofundme.
>>
>>44669866
Actually I'd also suggest we put any 3pp site and/or patreon (or similar) to their respective spot under the repository. At least for the one's in the repository. That way we can support the one's that we generally agree are good enough to be mentioned.
>>
>>44669882
It's not much of a worry if you still have an e-mail. Right at the bottom there, it says:

TIP: To respond to [ErrantX] simply 'Reply' directly to this email.

Subbed name with your screenname because I'm not sure if that's public info, but yeah. Miracles of modern technology.
>>
>>44669930
Yeah, agreed there. DSP just gets a head start because they camped out here first
>>
>>44669882
right oh, made a dsp account and sending you the pic
>>
>>44669882
http://dreamscarred.com/author/errantx/
where is the option to send a pm?
never used this site before
>>
>>44670037
Bear with us, our website is kind of a piece of shit.

We're actually figuring this out for ourselves right now.

Yes I know how bad that sounds, we're four guys and a truck, I am sorry.
>>
>>44667112
Anti-Paladin level 3 is one way,
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/antipaladin#TOC-Aura-of-Cowardice-Su-

Dread, a psionic class, also level 3.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/dread#TOC-Aura-of-Fear-Su-
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>>44670274
Love the Dread for that - Expanded has a PoW Archetype for it too if you're looking for a martial initiator fear-based character.
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>>44670273
This explains a lot.

Good luck to you, men of the Dreamscarred Press. O7
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>>44670037
>>44670273
Okay, we got it solved. Go to THIS page: http://dreamscarred.com/members/errantx/

And then click "Private Message".

My apologies again for the shoddy site formatting, anon.
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>>44670323
I'm sorry to say this.
Relogged into my 7 year old GiTPG account and did it there.
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>>44669604
RAHADOUM DID NOTHING WRONG
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>>44670323
because I couldn't let your effort be in vain
I did it there as well
now, I can never been forgotten
so then gareth
wildshaper with disciplines
you mentioned something is in the pipeline is already, which may make my idea/commission unneccessary
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>>44670515
I know we've got a couple of writers powerfully interested in it, but I can't really say more than that for awhile.
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>>44670596
the idea of bear using broken blade and riven hourglass is too good
veiled moon tiger stalking you
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>>44669598
They were all blinded permanently.
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>>44670596
Clearly the access to their unique discipline must be named "Fists of the Wolf's Fang". Though the found was probably disappointing...
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>>44670596
hey boss, can I get some clarity
>>44660410
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>>44670745
Workin' on it. Sorry for any potential delays; I'm relaying it to others in the team 'cause I personally am both busy and still kinda fucking out of it.
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>>44670745
As far as we can tell, the answer is no. You have one attack - "unarmed strike" - which can be made with any of those limbs; those limbs are not each attacks in themselves. This may need revisiting later, as all of us are currently severely AFB.
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>>44670665
Do you have a link to it by chance?
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>>44670987
It makes sense, though, given the description of unarmed attacks under the monk's class features. A monk's iterative attacks/flurry of blows can be all one fist (ORAORAORAORAORA) or fists and feet or fist foot elbow knee headbutt or etc. They're each an "unarmed attack"--what body part that originates from is irrelevant.
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Is fey foundling a must on paladins? Do I need to be from the wilds for it to work?

My DM says I need to be a changeling. However it says the only requirement is that I get it at level 1.How much do I lose if I don't pick it up?
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>>44671446
Tell your GM that changelings are the offspring of hags, not fey and further, Golarion lore on changelings is shit.
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>>44671446
No it is not a must, helpful, sure but not 100% needed unless you want to be super optimized.
Yes, you need to be from the wilds, at least unless you refluff the feat with GM approval.
No, your GM is wrong, fey have nothing to do with Pathfinder Changelings. In Pathfinder Changelings are the children of Hags and are not related to the fey.
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New thread?
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>>44670665
That's what you get for sticking your dick in an insane green hag. My group actually dodged around her and tranny-magus completely by accident, which I thank them for, cause they wouldn't put up with that shit from me.
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>>44671585
go for it
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New thread

>>44671785
>>44671785
>>44671785
Thread replies: 343
Thread images: 32
Thread DB ID: 385938



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