Warhammer Fantasy General thread, open for all discussion of the Warhammer setting and how it relates to the roleplaying and wargames.
Let's keep it civil. Remember - when it comes to your own games, the right answer is whatever works best for you and your group.
>I don't have the books for 2nd Ed.
>How does career advancement actually work in 2nd edition?
>Maps of the old world?
>Good sites for extra resources?
>I don't know much about Warhammer, how can I get started?
Have a read of this:
>Madness in a time of Magic: Fantasy or Fallacy?
>Sleeping with the Fishes: An Aquatic race in WFRP?
>Maybe we're looking too deep into this: The Dark Beneath The World - The next frontier for WFRP gaming?
>Crimes and Schemes: What have you gotten away with in WFRP?
Getting into GMing WHFRP, and was wondering whether there were any published (or homebrewed) adventure/campaigns that take place heavily in Sylvania? The entire lore surrounding the area is really interesting to me.
I ran this in high school and college, mostly Marienburg back then and then a few adventures in 2nd edition in 2005. We had a lot of fun with 1st edition but 2nd didn't last long despite the fact that it was a much tighter design. If I was going to run this again I would not use either 1e or 2e, but would use Runequest 6 for the rules, and create sorcery and battle magic schools. RQ just has a much better combat system and XP/advancement is easy. What would be lost is the career advancement system, which is sad but it could be bolted on to RQ with a bit of work (you basically pre-select your RQ career choices if you pick a career.
Ran my first 1shot of thisystem yesterday.
Party stole some warpstone from some cultists who'd stolen it from some criminals who they'd planned to steal it from, and then they road north to Middenheim from Delbz to sell it.
Not, that seems pretty well thought out. Did your players have fun? What do you have planned for them following this?
The important thing, for any game, is making sure it suits your needs. Think of it like a trip to the beach. You're doing it to have fun, have a good time and make some memories with your friends. That's the adventure and the story you all build together. The system you use is just the car you drive. As long as your driving safely and using one that gets you from A to B, then it's all good.
Sigmars Heirs or Nights Dark Masters might have some interesting material for the location, but off hand I don't know of any specific adventures set in Sylvania.
I've been avoiding these threads since they were hijacked, but I just realized something that I can't really keep to my own, because I'm not an ass.
When FFG took over WHFRP2, they didn't just simply reprint the first print of the books (and thus fucked up all Errata), but they also put in an extra page page in the digital reprint. You've all seen it, it's a XBOXHUEG FFG-logo with some disclaimer and copyright info.
It's always (?) the second page of each book that's been digitally printed.
What this did is that it makes all the pages mis-matched. That might sound minor, but it actually severely hurts readability. For example, in the Core Rulebook, the Table of Contents are supposed to face eachother, so you can see the entire Table of Contents at once, on two pages.
In Ashes of Middenheim, there's a map of Middenheim that's obviously meant to be a spread, but they two parts of the map aren't even facing eachother.
Rip that shit out. Open up every book in Adobe Acrobat (or similar) and delete Page 2. Save.
Trust me, it improves overview and readability ten-fold. Like how all the extra boxes and small tables are always going to be on the edge of the pages facing outwards, instead of towards the middle - it's intentional, but FFG fucked it up with their extra page, for no other reason than to put their logo in there.
>I've been avoiding these threads since they were hijacked,
It's not so bad these days. It's a lot quieter and slower, but it's back to being peaceful.
>it's intentional, but FFG fucked it up with their extra page, for no other reason than to put their logo in there.
Good advice. I printed out hardcopy versions of the books years ago, but it was well spotted of you.
just found out that the miniwargaming guys are still doing the Old World Wars series, making WHFB bat reps, and the new one is pretty good, show some support:
I want to start a 2nd edition game but I want to add more playable races like ogres, lizardmen, greenskins and maybe halfies (half-elf, half-orc, etc) but balancing them myself is driving me nuts.
Are there some balanced official/fanmade playable profiles for them? Or some kind of point based system to do it myself?
Something I've had a problem with recently is storage density of minis. I figured out eventually a decent system after some googling and saw what other people were doing.
I've just done my test run of (pic related) plastic boxes ("Really useful storage boxes" is the name). They're just over A4 in length. I found a magnet company that does A4 precut "rubber steel" (magnetic but not magnetised) sheets. Vendor was Guys Magnets (UK) in case anyone wants stuff.
They also did a range of neodymium magnets super cheap. Test run was 250 magnets, 2 boxes and 2 sheets. I've got 20 magnets left and have stored around 140 goblins and 90 orcs in the two boxes. Worked out pretty good for storage density if you guys wanted ideas, beats using lots of GW or other boxes on price too.
Cost was £11 for 2 boxes, £18 for 250 magnets and 2 sheets. Actually not bad.
Magnetised the minis now, took about 3 hours with superglue. Out of boxes, got about another 250 to do...
Ogres would work (-ish), and there's a good fan supplement for them.
But Lizardmen wouldn't work at all, unless you're playing an awfully specific kind of game.
Greenskins is out of the question, there's just no such thing as working with them in any civilized way, in Warhammer Fantasy. Warhammer 40k can get away with Freebooters, but 2nd Edition Warhammer Fantasy? Fuck no.
Halfies? No way. Half-Elves maybe, in some older fluff they did exist, and elves COULD arguably be compatible with humans, I guess, but the idea of half-orcs is incredibly absurd from a fluff perspective.
I don't know too much about lizardmen but aren't they good guys? They hate chaos at least.
There are mercenary greenskins like the hobgoblins, Ruglud and first edition half-orcs. Black orcs also work as mercenaries for chaos dwarfs. I don't see the problem if you don't team them up with regular dwarfs and good elves and add an animosity rule.
Maybe greenskins could work better as greenskin only party, like the skavens rules in the horned rat book.
So it could be:
a) Good guys: humans, dwarfs, good elves and halflings
b) Mercenary guys: mercenary humans and greenskins (halflings maybe? I think Lumpin Cook were ok with greenskins)
c) Rats: skavens
d) Bad guys: chaos humans, dark elves, chaos dwarfs and greenskins
And ogres for everyone
Half-orcs could be magical experiments like black orcs but going wrong. Something like early chaos dwarfs experiments. So still spore guys.
Why is Celestial College so best?
It's ridiculous how best Celestial spells are.
Sounds like it could be either a White Lion or a High Elf prince.
Nice find. I'll add it to the General links list.
>balancing them myself is driving me nuts.
I wouldn't bother trying to balance them. A lot of the 'balance' comes from the setting you play in. An elf is always going to be physically superior to a human, but in the Empire they will suffer from a lot of racism and xenophobia.
Have you tried the Warhammer mod for Crusader Kings 2?
>Have you tried the Warhammer mod for Crusader Kings 2?
I mean, yeah. It's pretty top tier. Isn't a Total War game, though.
My favourite playthrough so far is the one where my halfling kingdom is slowly growing inside the Empire like a short, fat, cancer. One day one of our own will be emperor.
>growing inside the Empire like a short, fat, cancer.
So exactly like halflings.
I've got my fingers crossed for the TW game, but if it busts Gehemisnacht will be a fine fallback.
On the one hand they have a metric tonne of awesome-sounding features and the battles look amazing, but on the other I hear things like "Chaos Warrior DLC" and "Limited conquerable areas" and my scrotum shrivels.
Ultimately, I feel it will be a great concept with poor execution. The Warhammer IP just has too much potential for cash-grabbing, especially since the Fantasy base was dumped. They can and probably will milk it for every red cent.
Thank Sigmar one of these threads is up. I just finished running a session and I desperately need advice.
>Party of Marine, Hunter, and Road Warden are joined by new player, Scribe
>Working on finding the missing daughter of a wealthy merchant, have a few leads
>split up, Hunter/RW and Marine/Scribe
>latter two explore a minor lead, who they don't know is actually the mastermind
>Scribe is looking over his character sheet
"Oh hey, I have Hypnotism and a 44 WP score. Let's try it on this guy!"
The exact wording of the skill is as follows:
>Use this skill to put another into a trance. The subject's attention must be kept for one minute, after which you must make a successful Skill test. Unwilling subjects may resist with an opposed WP test. Once the subject is in a trance, you may ask him one question for every 10 points of your WP characteristic. These questions must be answered truthfully. Note the subject answers with what he knows to be the truth, but he may very well be wrong. Once the last question is asked, the subject comes out of the trance.
>proceed to very carefully formulate the questions, like a Djinni's wishes. I think for a long time before answering each, pledging to not be unfairly cryptic.
>What do you know of the disappearance of [girl]?
"I kidnapped her."
>Where is she located?
"In my rented hovel." (purposefully did not say where it is)
>How do we get there exactly?
>What are your exact motivations for doing this?
>"Oh man this is like reading the GM's notes!"
>"This is every GM's nightmare!
>"Let's just use this on every suspect we come across from now on!"
The RW is a GM as well and came up to me afterwards. He agrees with me that something must be done, despite there being no errata for Hypnotism, but cautions that everyone had fun with it so don't nerf it do death.
So my question to you lot is,
What the HELL do I do
Thoughts for you:
1. I'd change how long you need to keep the subjects attention for. Maybe up it from 1 minute to 5. Alternatively, give varying bonuses/negatives for the amount of time taken. Don't let them know how long they need to hypnotise a given target, but make it something like 1 minute per 10 WP points.
2. Instead of 1 Question per 10 WP, I'd make it 1 per degree of success achieved. That way it feels a little more like a challenge that has variable results rather than a guarenteed X amount of answers everytime.
3. Defininitely do NOT let them know how many questions they can ask the hypnotised target. They shouldn't know for sure that the hypnotism has worked.
Overall keeping the usefulness of the skill, but taking away the 'this is gold, everytime'. It might help if they keep getting answers from the subject, but after the few auto successes he starts peppering them with lies or things that the subject thinks the hypnotiser wants to hear.
A question for you:
What niche would you like hypnotism to fill?
From how the player used it, what feels OP about it to you? This will help narrow down an idea on how to bring it into balance for the rest of your game.
> Note the subject answers with what he knows to be the truth, but he may very well be wrong
You've been on 4chan. Use this. You know exactly how often people are wrong but convinced they know the truth.
If you could mod it to remove some of the emphasis on heroes and remove some of the new units introduced in.last few years I'd buy it now
I fear the emphasis will be on powers and heroes rather than big armies and actual tactics
From what we've seen in the trailers, the focus is mostly on the armies with heroes/wizards filling a sort of glass cannon role. Capable of turning the tide, but not something you want to rely on.
Hypnotism is not that useful. It's pretty much impossible to hypnotize an unwilling subject who realizes what's going on.
>Why not both?
>Legions of elven Elvis impersonators flooding the Empire.
>Honest, hard working entertainers put out of work by pointy eared troubadours.
>Economy slowly collapsing as the EE's siphon currency out of the Empire.
>Critical gold and silver shortages.
>Note the subject answers with what he knows to be the truth, but he may very well be wrong.
This is a very important part, also I would add negative modifiers depending on situations. For instance, are there distracting things nearby Is it particularly loud thanks to heavy rain or a commotion, does he have the shits and is having a hard time keeping composure.
Now you're thinking.
That's a pretty decent compromise.
Mechanically, maybe double a resistant targets WP. Someone with a strong enough will and a decent understanding of hypnosis can 'trick' a person into hypnosis. It's not always like stage hypnosis. Sometimes it's just coercing people into being more susceptible to suggestion.
>The subject's attention must be kept for one minute.
Good luck with that one. Keeping my attention? How the fuck are you going to force me to keep my attention?
I'd allow you to make a Blather test to keep his attention while trying to hypnotize him subtly, but the moment you pin him down, the difficulty of this is going to race upwards really quickly.
Also, >These questions must be answered truthfully.
But not effectively. For example, "How do we get there exactly?" Right through the forest.
Use the mark's frames of reference. Past the tree? What fucking tree? IT'S A FUCKING FOREST. Go to the baker? WHAT FUCKING BAKER, WE'RE IN ALTDORF!
His motives? Hah, fat chance. He might not even know it himself.
And so on.
What's the best way of fixing the Spear/Halberd/Great Weapon problem in 2e?
That is to say, why would anyone buy a great weapon when halberd do the same thing and is cheaper and more versatile?
Halberd is much larger and harder to carry around?
The main problem is that great weapons are shit in general. You get Impact and that's nice, but you also get Slow and you can't have a shield. Meaning every parry takes half action.
Guy with a sword and shield will always beat a guy with two handed weapon. Even worse if it's rapier and shield.
Okay, I need a clarification on something.
When you cast a spell you can cast any spell you want as extended action right? Like, if you fail to meet CV you can just keep casting next round right?
Because otherwise spells with high CV are completely pointless. Even a wizard lord won't cast those 30+ spells.
>Halberd is much larger and harder to carry around?
Not especially. Pic related.
But yeah. I guess great weapons in general need an overhaul. Maybe they need armour-piercing. Or just a straight damage increase.
>Even a wizard lord won't cast those 30+ spells
As far as I can tell, a wizard lord can easily get eight casting dice without even using material components. On eight dice, their average total is 28 - they won't score 30+ on average, true, but it's still pretty regular that they'll get one off.
And it'll be almost a matter of course if they use components of 2/3 dice.
But tzeentch's curse gets ridiculous easily, as far as I can tell.
Channeling don't give you extra dice. Neither do ingredients. +1 means +1 not +1d10.
>On eight dice, their average total is 28
If you roll d6 instead of d10 like you should.
A wizard lord with magic 4 rolls 4d10. That's 22 average.
Spears are also better than swords and axes. Since they work exactly the same but also get Fast.
That's balanced by the fact that they are much longer and can't be concealed or just carried on your belt.
>Not especially. Pic related.
Those halberds look to be between 50 - 70% again as long as the two handed weapons.
>On eight dice
If your GM ever let you roll 8 dice for a spell, I suspect Tzeentch itself would show up and ask WTF was going on.
>When you cast a spell you can cast any spell you want as extended action right?
To my understanding, that is correct. And is frankly a requirement.
Something for magic lovers to keep in mind - a lot of players argue that it's shitty that you can't wield the same levels of elemental destruction that we see in WFB.
But I think you can.
Those spells your wizards cast in WFB aren't being cast in 6 seconds. A round in WFB is usually argued to last anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes RL.
>Those spells your wizards cast in WFB aren't being cast in 6 seconds. A round in WFB is usually argued to last anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes RL.
So all the WFB spells are just strong spells that have been channelled out the ass?
That'd work better if there was an incremental result from rolling higher on your cast roll, rather than just a minimum target number.
I'm still not sure if spells that make d10 missiles are too OP or other damage spells are too weak.
Seriously, the moment a mage fires 8 missiles at the bad guy you start to question why other damage spells even exist.
I really doubt it takes minutes when units fire their bows just once in that time.
And remember than in FB mage can keep casting spells in a round as long as you still have magic dice and he keeps succeeding.
>It's not so bad these days. It's a lot quieter and slower, but it's back to being peaceful.
I haven't read these threads since like the third. What are you talking about? What hijacking?
Here's a fan Lizardman thing, can't vouch for it mechanically.
>the idea of half-orcs is incredibly absurd from a fluff perspective.
The early Dan Abnett series about those elves contains Half-Orcs. It's a retarded and very poorly written series even without the outdated, ridiculous fluff, and best forgotten.
>I don't know too much about lizardmen but aren't they good guys? They hate chaos at least.
Most Lizardmen don't think. They're biological machines running off of orders from the Old Ones. They don't hope or dream or even communicate, save for the Skinks and the Slann, and neither of them are really fitting for PCs.
Hypnotism guy here. Some really good suggestions and reasoning being thrown out there, and I appreciate it.
I think what I will do is really emphasize the difficulty of keeping someone's attention for 1 minute. It would have to involve trickery because why else would they pay attention to your little coin/pocket watch/etc?
you are exaggerating: it's not that they don't think, it's that they don't care and are utterly loyal to following the will of the slann and the old ones.
we have at least one example of a skink dreaming from an old comic, they are capable of desire and they do have a soul, empowering the warp manifestation that is sotek wouldn't have been possible otherwise; though they do not possess the same degree or type of soul of other races, who are far more akin to chaos and its endless creative potential such as thoughts that defy a completely linear and ordered fashion.
sauri have their own simplified dialect of saurian too.
but I agree lizardmen are not good for PCs, at best one could use a skink, we've cases of them acting as mercenaries (tichi huici/itzi huinxi) or otherwise interacting diplomatically with other races such as humans merchants and explorers.
>I really doubt it takes minutes when units fire their bows just once in that time.
General thoughts are it's an abstraction. Several volleys in the space of 1 Turn represented by the roll for the unit.
Cheers, I'll update it for next time.
>What are you talking about? What hijacking?
Pretty much every second thread devolved into really intense arguments over stupid subjects. Stuff like whether it's WFRP or WHFRP, or whether Beastmen have to be worshipers of Chaos or if they could be free if given the chance, or if all mutants grow up to be gors or spawn.
>the idea of half-orcs is incredibly absurd from a fluff perspective.
I think it could be made to work. Something similar to Digganobs in Gorkamorka. Not actually genetic orcs, but brain-fucked into thinking they are.
Bloodbowl and the WFB boardgame are fine. 40k has a general that would be better suited. And of course if you wanted to talk about anything from any of the others and how you could get it to work in WFRP, you're welcome to.
I remember in pre-End Times FB thread there was discussion on a similar topic, and someone provided some sources regarding small orc bands living in tenuous relationship with humans in Empire (mostly serving as hired muscles/militia, living outside city walls, but still helping to deal with chaos/bandit/etc. enemies).
IIRC, the source was from pre-shroom-fluff era, so half-orcs were mentioned and it was described how difficult life for them is, since humans don't trust them, and orc don't consider them orky enough.
don't have the sauce but I'm sure I've seen it. so there's that.
I've always played Orcs like football hooligans. If you're strong and violent enough, you can get them to do what you say - as long as you've crumped a few to make your point and as long as what you want them to do involves them crumping somebody else.
Failure to provide or allow for sufficient crumpage may result in finding yourself the target for crump.
>The Thin White Man
Obviously as a nobleman riding the road to hell, snorting drugs and consorting with pleasure cults to feel anything at all.