Mary Sue

You wouldn't be saying any of this if she wasn't a woman.

>>44643678

Well done, ol' chap. Well done.

>>44643678
Nice blog

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You sure gave up on the old thread quickly.

I'm sorry you were so offended by TFA, but this ain't your place to vent.

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>>44643720
This.

Why do you keep making these threads? Are you satisfied with your life?

>>44643720
>"You're not pointing out obvious flaws in character design, you're just sexist!"

Okay, tumblr.

>>44643720
Yes, I still would.

>>44643678
Nice TLDR, but she's still not an author self-insert, and therefore not a Mary Sue.

I'm starting to think I'm the only anon who actually watched the movie. Or were the hints that Rey is related to Luke and was mindwiped too subtle?

>>44643801
I'm just having a hard time getting over the fact that people are complaining about Mary Sues in a universe where Anakin and the Mandalorians exist.

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>>44643720
You're right, that'd be a Gary Stu instead.
Fuck off, Tumblr

>>44643801
No, but it points to her being a mary sue even more.

>>44643822
Seriously. Star Wars is just full of shit writing both in and out of the movies, and full of characters that could easily fall into a dozen different interpretations of Mary Sue. Complaining about this just feels silly to me.

>>44643678
You know someone who lives in a wrecked walker probably would be a good mechanic. Also considering the shit that lives on bloody desert planets in star wars it makes sense she is good at fighting. Luke shot womp rats from some sort of jet fighter thing.
>>44643822
Whats wrong with the mandos?

>>44643678
>high intelligence, wisdom and dexterity
>takes weapon finesse early because you don't have to spend credits to charge a stick
>force sensitive human bonus feat
>levels hits level 3 when she touched anakin's lightsaber, takes force training which gives her 1 + her wisdom modifier in force powers. Asks DM if she can leave the slots unfilled for now, DM thinks it's a cool idea
>>resisting kylo ren's mind powers
>>mind trick
>maybe stealth?
>move object

I'm sure I'm forgetting Something, but you should keep in mind that she doesn't use any of those powers twice.

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>>44643801
>Or were the hints that Rey is related to Luke and was mindwiped too subtle?
Is this supposed to be a counterpoint to her being a Sue? Because it really isn't.

>>44643720
pointing out shitty, one-dimensional characters isn't based on their sex, you ninny. She's boring. Nothing is ever at risk of her failing. Seriously, what does she do wrong? I honestly don't remember anything from the movie besides it being a nonstop ride of action setpieces with almost no characterization or explanation.

>>44643855
Mostly a bunch of EU wank.

>>44643822
What's really exasperating to me are the complaints about things the movie actually explains or are easily justified with a little thought, like someone who survives by stripping machines being good with mechanics.

Between this and the new Ghostbusters, 2016 looks like a great year for virginal white male butthurt.

>>44643883
So, a Star Wars movie?

>>44643888
All I know about them is they are really good at fighting. Doesn't seem that far fetched that you have a race good at fighting.

>>44643720

Whaatttttt.

You're aware that Luke was pretty shitty at everything, right? It took him two movies to fight Vader, and Vader pushed his shit in. The only thing he really does right up to that point is blowing up the Death Star.

In fact, the Emperor would've killed him if Darth Vader hadn't had a change of heart. The whole point is that Luke was never really that good at fighting, and fighting wasn't the solution anyway.

>>44643678
>rolling for ability scores
Look at him. Look at him and laught!

But more seriously OP, this look like a standard EotE / FaD character at mid-game. Don't try to apply D&D logic everywhere.

>>44643720
Pretty sure I would be. Poor writing is poor writing. Hell, I'm LESS inclined to give female characters shit over male characters because it's refreshing to see a female character that doesn't just say the MC's name on repeat eternally and get captured or go googly-eyed or pretend to be strong but really is a weak woman that just needs a dick in her. Even if it's shit writing it's better than the even shittier ruts that female characters tend to fall into.

But Rey is shit writing at an inexcusable level. The worst part is that almost all of her crap could be explained away with a single line at each scenario.

>Rey can pilot the Falcon
>"I've been playing in this thing since I was a kid. I've never actually FLOWN it, but I know how it works well enough to pick it up pretty quickly."
>Rey can into blasters
>"I pretend to be a Resistance fighter when I'm done with work for a day. I used to use fake/broken blasters to practice. I have bad habits and the actual recoil/other attributes of a real blaster are surprising, but it's not an entirely alien concept to hold and brandish one." Alternatively, have her little helmet scene include a blaster. Even a broken one would do.
>Rey can into the Force
>Admittedly I don't have much of anything here. The best I've got is "Kylo Ren's personal bullshit was what caused the feedback, not her own skill or ability, and from there she took her advantage and figured out how to press it". This is sortof implied in the movie but not in any concrete way.
>Rey can lightsabers
No the fuck she can't. She tries to use a saber like a spear the entire time, constantly trying to stab the same spot over and over again and only actually getting a glancing blow in because Kylo Ren was having a really fucking bad day. And in the end she lost anyway. If she doesn't get a Lightsaber Pike I'll be upset.

Rey a shit.

>>44643862
Here's your counterpoint: the film is official media, not fan fiction.
Also, Rey is not the self-insert of J.J. Abrams.

>>44643929
In fairness dart vader is a pretty big step up from the new guy. Especially since he was shot in the gut.

>>44643901
>virginal white male

Just stop giving yourselves away so fucking easily, damn.

>>44643897
Taking things apart =! knowing how they work.

>>44643929

> It took him two movies to fight Vader, and Vader pushed his shit in.

Now hold on in the name of fairness Luke was fighting Darth Vader.

Rey was fighting Kylo Ren. Who is literally shitty wannabe Darth Vader.

Not that this doesn't offer its own problem with your villain but that's not exactly unjustifiable.

>>44643897
>hurr I scrap wrecked refrigerators and washing machines to pay for hotpockets
>that means I can hotwire and control a high-powered car I've never seen before at least as well as Mario Andretti

>>44643720

Everyone keeps saying that but they always conveniently forget to provide an example.

Provide me with the male version of Rey.

>>44643964
>all ships in atmosphere use repulsorlift engines
>Rey has been flying that speeder for years
>lol y she can fly

>>44643970
>Provide me with the male version of Rey

Anakin Skywalker

>>44643965
Yeah, but the point here is Rey should have been a shitty wannabe Luke Skywalker.

Instead She's Skywalker 2.0

>>44643970
Easy. Finn.

>>44643970

>Provide me with the male version of Rey.

Anakin Skywalker won a pod-race... apparently the first human to do so.

And he was able to pilot a ship into the middle of a heavily fortified trade federation ship and blow it up from the inside.

At 10 years old.

NOW you could argue that this is excusable because HE BECOMES THE VILLAIN buuut that's not exactly in his favor still.

>>44643967
>>44643976
Just like shooting womp rats qualifies you to take out death stars.

>>44643822
>I'm just having a hard time getting over the fact that people are complaining about Mary Sues in a universe where Anakin and the Mandalorians exist.
We DO complain A LOT about Anakin and mandos. At least we did until they became irrelevant.

>>44643976

My main problem is that Rey can do EVERYTHING. Like, she's Han Solo AND Luke Skywalker combined.

Couldn't Finn have been the new Han Solo, and she's just the new Luke Skywalker? Because Finn's completely useless otherwise! Like, it's especially racist because he's now the loyal black servant who pines for his massa.

>>44643984
Anakin Skywalker is less "Sue" and more "Person that had really poor reactions to being fucked over by people around him". A lot of shitty things he is, but a Sue he isn't.

Flying in star wars seems to be really easy when you think about it.

>>44643746

Actually I did say this about Ender's Game.

Crying "sexist!" won't substitute for not having a counterargument.

>>44643905
At least Luke's flying ability was explained by him getting ready to go to the academy. He starts as an ignorant, whiny rube who annoys everyone around him. Gets worked over by sand hobos and walrus men. He has an arc. She's just amazing at everything for no reason.

>>44644013
Who's we? I have literally never seen a random LOL LOOK AT THIS MARY SUE thread about either.

Like, I don't give a shit if you like wossername or not, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but whine about it fucking somewhere else.

>>44643984
>Anakin Skywalker
Did ANYONE EVER accept him and not completely shit all over him when the prequels happened?

>>44643929
This. Luke was show to be a great pilot and mechanic, just like his father. His aim with a blaster was never amazing and his skill with a Saber wasn't all that. But put him in a ship and that's where he got shit done.

>>44643984

The same Anakin Skywalker that everyone hates?

>>44644023
She does live in an environment that would necessitate those skills.

>>44644004
Actually, Anakin spends nearly all of his young life around droids and other mechanical parts in Wattos hut.

Despite being a slave Watto treats him as an apprentice than exhaustable labour and directly allows him to tinker around with the space parts.

But even then, Anakin IS basically a living plot point, that's his role in the entire prequel series.

Using the term Sue when not talking about people's fanfictions self-inserts (you know, the context for which the term was invented?) is tripe. There is no magical limit to how competent a fictional character can or can't be.

>>44643950
>self-insert of J.J. Abrams
Would you put it past him?

>>44643720
Yet people will complain just as much about Anakin's flaws, and he was still a better explained character than Rey.

THAT SAID GIVE THE GIRL SOME MOVIES, ITS NOT LIKE LUKES OR ANAKINS ABILITIES WERE EXPLAINED BY EP FOUR COME ON

>>44643720
People complained ad nauseam about "I'll try a spin, is a nice trick...now this is podracing" anakin, you know

>>44643997
>Finn
He's a little contrived (an renegade stormtrooper with a heart of gold? Please.) but he doesn't do anything particularly amazing singlehandedly. He even got his shit kicked in by a grunt during the middle of the movie.

>>44644040
>I have literally never seen a random LOL LOOK AT THIS MARY SUE thread about either
Probably because when Phantom Menace hit the theaters mm was yet to allow you to use her computer.

I mean, there was an unholy fuckton of people dissin' Anakin for what a shit of a character he is.

>>44644062
>Lives on a nicer Tatooine.
>Automatically as good a mechanic and spaceflyer than Han Solo

Or, the better problem to prove she's a Mary Sue.

>SHE UNDERSTANDS WOOKIE.

>>44644062

Yeah, but what's Finn's role? Maybe he's a great pil...Oh. Right, there's Poe.

Okay, maybe he's a good figh...Oh. That.

So he's just vaguely inspirational and good-hearted? That's...That's really great, guys.

>>44644057
Luke was a god damn farmer, he would suck in a fight.

>>44643967
Except that's not what she's doing. She's takign very specific pieces of those star cruisers, which have specific purposes, and getting a raw deal because the trader's a bastard. She has to know WHAT those pieces do, WHERE to get them, WHY they're important, and HOW to remove them without suffering death from any number fo reasons.

It's the difference between selling a car door for the metal content, and knowing how to find and remove a carburator to sell to someone who fixes cars. She's the latter, not the former.

Incidentally, it's really easy to fly anything in Star Wars universe, because Luke took to an X-wing instantly after flying a desert-hopper POS. The fact that she knows the insides of the crashed ships because she makes a living wandering through them is no different than Luke knowing how to fly an X-wing in a fucking dogfight in the chasms of the death star.

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>>44643720
Yes, yes I would. My hatred for shitty writing transcends gender, race and political affiliation.

>>44644067
This.

Also, complaining about a genius protagonist in high fantasy is fucking stupid. YOU SIGNED FOR IT YOU IDIOTS

>>44644074
Actually, Luke's were.

He spends all his time shooting shit in a low Alt ship training for the Academy.

>>44644099
She couldn't have spoken to wookies before?

>>44644113
But she's not a genius. She's just competent at everything because of affirmative action.

Luke wasn't able to beat a trained jedi that was taller than him, but she was even though she had NO training.

>>44644105
Wasn't the X-wing supposed to be remarkably easy to fly in-universe? I'm sure that accounted for something.

>>44644059
You clearly hate Rey, but that doesn't stop you from arguing she's a sue.

Yes, the Anakin Skywalker who built his own goddamn droid, seduced a queen, was the chosen one because he was so powerful in the force, built his own podracer, and then piloted a ship he'd never set foot in to score THE decisive military strike in the battle for Naboo. All at age, again, nine.

>>44644100
Hes obviously going to get some power ups for the final showdown.
Wouldn't surprise me if her getting killed or something spurs him into beating the final bad dude.

>>44644099
Most partially educated people understand wookie. She lives near a fucking trade-town, she probably understands basic info in half a dozen languages, just like everyone else in Star Wars. R2 isn't the only droid Luke speaks to and understands.

>>44643997

You're retarded. So staggeringly retarded.

Finn actually has an arc. He's presented to us as being this kind of clumsy self centered coward who eventually overcomes all these failings as the movie goes on.

Nothing like Rey at all.

This is either bait or you haven't seen the movie OR you're so incredibly dim you failed to keep up with a space adventure movie for children.

>>44644134
Wookie is extremely hard to understand and Wookies, even in the established new Canon, are reclusive bunch.

You don't learn a language through passive contact.

>>44644145
Yep, Also the Hopper Luke flew around in was used for Training in the Academy, something that helped alot.

>>44644134
Wookies would be a rare sight on Jakku, presumably.

Hopefully, Rey knowing Shyriwook will be explained either in the cut scene for this film or in a future film.

>>44643862
I don't think you know what a mary sue is.

>>44644099
>rey grieves with leia over han's death
>instead of, you know, the guy who owed him a life debt and spent three movies with them both
worse than hitler

>>44644134
Not on a fucking litteralywhat desert planet in the ass end of the universe.
Maybe there's a chance she met one, but wookie is also a bitch and a half to learn to understand; not something you just pick up in a cantina.

>>44643883
>I honestly don't remember anything from the movie besides it being a nonstop ride of action setpieces with almost no characterization or explanation.

>Movie has to much action and no character development
>Therefore Mary Sue
?

Seriously, I was waiting for any sign of sue-ism after reading about it on the net, and the only cringy "girl power" moment was when Finn tries to help her get up after the marketplace on Jakku has been blown up by TIEs, and she refuses because that's not allowed for a strong independant woman, I guess. Otherwise it was standart hero plot armor and jedi bullshit.

>>44644145

I'm also equally sure the most commonly used transport ship in the galaxy - one so common it's variants are well known - is equally easy to fly. .

1. We complained back and forth about Anakin, specially E1 Anakin
2. Luke is not is not even comparable to Rey at all, and everything he does has been explained why he can do it in the first movie

Also, OP, you forgot: Amnesia and repressed memories, other sign of awful fanfic main character, and accomplishing everything flawlessly

>>44644143
Luke spent his life farming moisture and had to fight one of the two sith lords left.
She obviously had experience fighting and took on a wannabe that was shot in the gut.

>>44644148

How dense are you?

You are listing reason why people hate Anakin and why he is a sue (at least in TPM), your argument backs up my point not yours.

Are you having a stroke?

>>44644143
You know for someone arguing that you have other reasons besides her being a woman, you're awfully certain that she's a result of affirmative action and nothing else.

>>44644148
>Yes, the Anakin Skywalker who built his own goddamn droid, seduced a queen, was the chosen one because he was so powerful in the force, built his own podracer, and then piloted a ship he'd never set foot in to score THE decisive military strike in the battle for Naboo. All at age, again, nine.
Yes, and we hate him and we don't want any characters like him anymore. Where's the hypocrisy in this again?

>>44644143
Said person she beat had been shot in the gut by a weapon that had previously been shown blowing people back like they had been hit by a car.

>>44644105
Not to mention the only mechanics we see her do in the movies is very simple stuff like fixing BB-8's antenna or literally ripping stuff out of where it's 'supposed' to be.

>Beaming: "I bypassed the compressor!"
>Han looks entirely bewildered by this definition of 'bypassed'

>>44644198
>Leader of the Knights of Ren
>Wannabe

There is that typical tumblr idea that Kylo was some kind of useless punk.

>>44643678
>Doesn't master her abilities in one attempt
>Obviously unskilled with a saber (she tried that same poke against Kylo Ren about three times)
>Only person actually fooled by Finn's lie
>Not the one making every plan and having everyone listen regardless of whether or not it's a stupid idea
>Mary Sue
Top kek

>>44643883
>Seriously, what does she do wrong?

Running away from her Jedi destiny.
Getting caught by Kylo Ren.

>>44644099
>>44644134
>>44644168
>>44644176
>complaining about Star Wars
>can't even spell "Wookiee"

>>44643720
Fuck off back to tumblr.

Luke started his first movie as a fucking moisture farmer and ended it with making a perfect one in a million shot to destroy the Death Star.

>>44644090
That scene arguably saved the movie. Between that and Kylo Ren turning out LITERALLY to be in-universe a shitty Vader wannabe, the movie did decently enough to make me okay with seeing another.

>>44644204
>>44644223
Excuse me, I thought you were arguing that Anakin wasn't a Sue because people hated him.

>>44644232
He sure wasnt darth fucking vader was he? Even then she would have got stomped if he wasnt fucked up.

>>44644244
>Has no argument
>Attacks spelling to compensate.

>>44644105
T-16 has the same avionics and instruments as the T-60 X-wing, that's why he was so familiar with the ship.

He also trained to enter in the imperial academy, and flew through a narrow as fuck canyon shooting womp rats tons of time.

Both explained in the movies, now, where in TFA explains how she's better pilot than probably anyone in the galaxy in a ship she never flew before and that needs two pilots and better markswoman than most skilled players in CS without even using a blaster before in her life?

Lets not forget instantly reverse mindrape and mindcontrol 5 minutes after she heard about the Force for the first time.

>>44643950

If we're going to quibble about application of the term Mary Sue, then is there some alternate, more accurate term for a character that is designed to be pandering to a demographic by giving them an infallible paragon 'role-model' instead of a realistic character?

Maybe we should call blatantly patronising character's targeted at vocal demographics in order to gain PC cred Rey's?

>>44644188
She never has a scene where she's in danger. At least have her get caught by the tentacle monsters and have Finn drop the door to save her.

>>44644023
She's not even that good at blasters or piloting, which are the two least justified things.

Mechanics is justified by her scrapping things for a living (and actually knowing what to scrap, as well as other technical knowledge).

Lightsaber fighting she does once, rather clumsily, using her old fighting style with her staff, against a heavily injured, emotionally damaged apprentice. And she doesn't even manage to kill him.

Blasters she does maybe once, and misses half of her shots with it.

Piloting she also does once in a dog fight, against 2 Tie Fighters, which are basically the crappiest ships ever. I'm also betting she used the force subconciously there, since there was no way she would have lined up that last shot otherwise.

So out of the 4 things she does 'perfectly', two are one-off things, one she doesn't do perfectly, and the other is heavily justified.

If you look at Finn, he's been on sanitation detail forever, and yet is great with a blaster, does about as well with a lightsaber, and seems to be a good ship-gunner as well.

If anything, he's more Mary Sue than Rey. The 1 Stormtrooper who had a change of heart? And just happened to escape as well? He even uses a lightsaber despite not being force-sensi

>>44644251
Finn was explicitly untrained at both ship-gunning and lightsabers and he did alright with both in his literal first attempts. It's Star Wars, people just kick arse when they need to.

>>44643678
Does everyone forget KOTOR? The force can be used to assist a Jedi in understanding other languages. Why is this such a sticking point with people?
Hopefully it'll be made clearer in the next movie.
(That aside, she's still a Sue)

>>44644251
He is a storm trooper and they are supposed to be good shots according to the movies.

>>44644074
But all the grownups seemed like they had so much fun and were so cool trashing the prequels, I want a go too! Please?!

>>44644290
Go to TVTropes, George. You'll find the buzzwords you want there.

>>44644267
Actually, we see NOTHING in seeing if she WOULD get stomped.

We already saw her counter his somewhat unique force probe powers.

You know, that was used on Poe, an experience and very well trained rebellion soldier.

>>44643799
>J.J. Abrams
>Jeffrey Jacob Abroms
>Jeffrey Jacob
>JeffRey
>Rey

Your move, champ.

>>44644241
>Getting caught by Kylo Ren.
To then instantly master jedi powers and escape without anyone noticing her, srly, 0 reprecursions, in fact, thanks to that meaningless scene she now knows 2 jedi powers.

>>44644067

To be fair, TFA is basically just big budget fanfiction that isn't inline with what Lucas' original vision for a sequel trilogy was. (Even if his vision was probably even shittier.)

>>44644023
>he's now the loyal black servant who pines for his massa.

He's the one who walked out on her.

>>44644299
She supposedly built the vehicle she used to get around from scrap, mind.

>>44644328
One that wasnt force sensitive. Once you are force sensitive you get better at everything.

If she were a dude you wouldn't be complaining.

>>44644299
>She's not even that good at blasters or piloting, which are the two least justified things.
>misses a single shot throughout the entire movie despite never having fired a blaster before
>piloted a weighty as fuck light freighter through the narrow remains of a star destroyer's drive section, beating out a highly-trained starfighter pilot in a craft well-known for its excellent maneuverability without proir knowledge of how to fly anything larger than her hoverbike.

>>44644134
Wookies are basically an endangered species. Most of them were worked to death by the Empire (still Cannon) and those that weren't are few and far between. Han only understands wookie because he spent most of his life from the age of about 20 with Chewbacca. Are you telling me that Rey has spent most of her life with a Wookie, picking up the language? On a garbage dump planet, where wookies would have literally no purpose (no need for their brute strength, cheaper enforcers since what they need to do is much less than what a wookie can do, better employment offers literally anywhere else)

>>44644266
No.

He was a Sue/Shit/Whatever you call it - awful character, and we hated him. Now Rey's a Sue/Shit/Whatever you call it- awful character, and we hate her.

>>44644241

Running away from her Jedi 'destiny' is also 'choosing her own path as an independent woman'.

Getting caught by Kylo Ren is necessary to have her subvert the 'damsel in distress' trope without gender-flipping it.

>>44644340
Anyone who believes that the EU is retconned after that travesty of a movie should be dragged into the street and shot at by stormtroopers.

It wont kill them but it'll give them PTSD

>>44644370
Also we forget

>Drastically upgunned Tie Fighters.

What part of "shot in the gut by a bowcaster that sends stormtroopers flying through the air" is so hard to get? She drove him off, and "won" the fight because Chewie and Finn both got hits on him before she even stepped up to the plate.

Also, Ren is a complete mess. He just killed his Father, got shot in the gut, stabbed in the shoulder by a lightsaber, and had to hike after those two in the freezing cold while bleeding out. The fool is on the brink of a breakdown after what he just did (all so he can prove his dark is darker), and the reality is Ren is a wannabe. A true wannabe. He is not Vader, not even close.

I don't find it hard to believe she could stand up to him in this instance.

>>44644100
He's there as the odd man out, the outsider, the character the audience can relate to when they are introduced to this fantastical setting.

>>44644340
Lucas can suck dick. I would take fan fiction any day over what the idiot who ruined general grievous thought up.

>>44644340
>that isn't inline with what Lucas' original vision for a sequel trilogy was. (Even if his vision was probably even shittier.)

The prequels showed us what RotJ suggested: fuck Lucas' vision. Fuck it to death with a chainsaw, burn the corpse, dissolve the ashes in acid, and toss that shit in the hazardous waste bin.

>>44644337
And yet she failed to take charge of her own rescue mission, like Leia did.

>>44644384
That's fair enough.

This still isn't /tv/ or whatever, though.

>>44643976
Driving a levitating motorcycle =! Flying a fighter plane and pulling off a cobra maneuver =! fixing a fighter plane

>>44644104
He does suck in a fight. He was beat up by an asthmatic refrigerator. Twice.

>>44644365
Seriously. I didn't actually believe this sentiment when it was posted at the start of this thread but after 50 or so posts of 'She's a woman character doing things, it can only be the result of PC pandering gone mad!' I'm starting to come around to your point of view.
Personally, Rey is bland. That's the bigger problem with her and one I hope they remedy in Episode 8.

>>44644299
>against 2 Tie Fighters, which are basically the crappiest ships ever.
Wrong. They were cheap, yes, but very capable craft, and far more maneuverable than a Light Freighter.

>f you look at Finn, he's been on sanitation detail forever, and yet is great with a blaster, does about as well with a lightsaber, and seems to be a good ship-gunner as well.
>soldier knows how to fire a weapon used by his order, is familiar with weapon systems used by his order
>must be a sue

>He even uses a lightsaber despite not being force-sensi
He used it like a club and got his shit rocked. You don't need to be force sensitive to use a lightsaber.

>>44644405
>Was literally walking out of the doom base because of her amazing magic powers and her sudden understanding of where all the access shafts are on A PLANET BASE THAT IS UNIQUE AND NOT BEEN DONE BEFORE>

>>44643949
>>44643897
Why do people think that in universe justifications are what's missing. Would it really be better if she turned to the camera and said "I'm Rey, a prodigy force user that self taught myself combat skills while barely scrapping a living as a scavenger but still had time to learn to fly a space ship, earn an engineering degree and learn to speak droid and Wookie". That doesn't stop her from being a ridiculous over the top character (AKA Mary Sue).

>>44644416
Be fair, it was a really strong refrigerator.

>>44643929
He also got his shit pushed in by sand people within the first half hour

>>44644299
>Blasters she does maybe once, and misses half of her shots with it.
She misses one, and then proceeds to 360º noscope headshot 6 troopers with only one shot each, she actually fires a Kylo and never misses per se, Kylo blocks all shots with his lightsaber.

TIE fighter is the most fast and manuvereable fighter ever, and the SF TIEs are even better, Poe says so in the movie when he's shows how surprised is about the ship and that he wants one. TIE's flaws are lack of shields, life support and hyperdrive.

She built her own speeder which is, according to novelization and enciclopedia which are both canon, the fastest speeder in the planet and only her is able to pilot it due that, the speeder can even fucking fly, not only hover.

>>44644370
>misses a single shot throughout the entire movie despite never having fired a blaster before

Out of what? 3 shots? That's not exactly expert accuracy.

As for the piloting, she was clearly quite familar with that Star Destroyer, since she knew there was an opening on the other end at all.

After that, she never dogfights again. She beats 2 Tie fighters. With Finn's help on gunning.

Speaking of Finn, he's also never used a blaster turret at all before his escape with Poe, and yet he's shooting down things with no problem very quickly.

>>44644148
Yes, all those things are reasons why people shit all over Anakin. Anakin is a sue.

>>44644023

Worse, she's Han, Luke, and R2-D2 all in one. Plus the level of powers that Luke had to wait until after he trained with Yoda in Empire to have. She gets all that up front.

Luke was a whiny kid who was an ace pilot with force potential but no actual ability. ANH is filled with lines from Luke highlighting what an annoying kid he is. "What's that red light flashing?!" "Shut up, kid."

Han Solo was a good pilot and rogue, but was unprincipled and morally grey. His heel/face turn is the climax of ANH.

Leia was a princess who was handy with a blaster and at the end of the last movie we were told she had force potential (but it never is used in the plot).

Rey is morally upright, almost to a fault. She's not just Force-sensitive, she has the powers already learned and usable in the first movie despite having no training. She's a crack shot, excellent in melee combat, an excellent mechanic, and an ace pilot. The Falcon is fast but not terribly maneuverable, plus it's been derelict for years. Yet she outflies a First Order TIE fighter like she's Lando Calrissian.

>>44644036

Not at the level of ace-ness that we see her use in TFA. I'll grant you, almost anyone can fly a spaceship in SW, but usually at the Amidala-level where you're essentially driving.

This shit here >>44643720 isn't just unfair to critics of Star Wars. It's had a bad effect on movies in general and this one in particular. Not to mention the cause of equality. Casually flinging around accusations of bigotry isn't an argument, it's what you use when you don't have an argument. It's also made Rey a worse character than she could have been.

Highlights from last thread:

>>44606488
>>44609571

>>44644299
Finn is still a stormtrooper, he has received weapon training. He is about as good as the other stormtroopers with a blaster, landing about 60% of his shots. Ship guns in star wars are piss easy, wait till the computer says fire, then fire.
>>Does about as well with a light saber.
Gets his arse handed to him by a stormtrooper, who almost kills him.

>>44644446
Right. If it were handled how it was in the new movie, he'd get surprised by the sand people, old ben would see it and start hustling to save him, but oh wait Luke is also great at hand to hand combat lol

People using the term 'Sue' as a form of literary criticism really rustles my jimmies. Go back to TvTropes.

>>44644434
Hell, Finn is the perfect counterargument to every single fucking point of why Rey is magic.

>Finn is good with a blaster, this is explained, Blasters are Stormtrooper basic training anyway.
>Translated his good aim with the blaster to being a gunner well, but he is shown doing many many mistakes.
>He's somewhat good with the lightsaber, using it mostly as a beatstick but any time he comes in contact with a CQC expert like TRAITOR or Ren, he gets his shit pushed in.
>Actually a flawed character at the start who learns and develops.

>>44644450
Finn is shown to be good with a Blaster by everyones reports anyway, literally everything he does there is shown to gradually be developed with his Poe scene AND the Falcon scene.

>>44644299
Finn gets a pass because all First Order Stormtroopers get Anti-Jedi training and training in melee combat, even the random rank and file sanitation crewmen. He would've been taught how to deal with lightsaber combat and combat against force-sensitives in general. A shock tonfa (or whatever the fuck they use) wouldn't be that far off from a lightsaber.

What I don't get is why every single motherfucker in a Stormtrooper suit gets anti-jedi training, but doesn't get basic gunnery training or basic pilot training.

>>44644447
I'm actually not certain that TIE/lns lack hyperdrives anymore. Otherwise, why would Po and Finn steal one to escape? Finn obviously thought that he could get out of the system with one, he just needed a pilot.

>>44644396
>>44644404

Again, I ain't sayin' his vision is good.

I'm saying the the Force Awakens is basically a Star Wars fan film produced by a big studio, which it is.

>>44644392
>He just killed his Father
> The fool is on the brink of a breakdown after what he just did (all so he can prove his dark is darker)
Well, we're in reality where "Dark is darker" actually works. All the hate, pain and emotions should have only made him stronger, as they would infuse him with the power of the Dark Side.

Meanwhile emotionally confused, horrified and angry Rey getting help from the Light Side is just beyond me. She was really fucking open on her emotional state at the moment, and yet she Jedi'd her way outta anything like holy shit. That's the absolute opposite of what how Jedi work.

For the shitton of plot holes that are stuffed by "TheForceTheForceTheForce", the Force doesn't seen to mean anything beyond plot armor at all by this point.

TIEs and stormtroopers are shit, face it, you think she's perfect but she isn't, is just everybody else who sucks.

I reckon being force sensitive justifies someone being good at everything. All they have to do is do what feels right.
Jedi train children with blindfolds on, an adult with prior experience can probably fake their way through everything.

>>44644471
Yeah, there is a thing I should sort of point out.

She flew through the Star destroyer wrecks like Lando did through the fucking Death Star 2 ducts.

So she's also a better pilot than LANDO.

You know, one of the VERY VERY GOOD pilots.

>>44644446
Yeah, first thing Luke does is reach for a Blaster Rifle.

Never at all has Luke been good in a fist fight.

He even got knocked on his ass by the Irish man in the Cantina bar.

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>>44644090
>grunt
LITERALLY TRAITOR

>>44644507
>Meanwhile emotionally confused, horrified and angry Rey getting help from the Light Side is just beyond me.

Who says it wasn't the Dark Side helping her?

>>44644252
Are you retarded?
He used the Force and had Obi Wan guiding his hips.
Even someone untrained in the Force can do really simple things (like get a blaster shot to go into a hole). Its not that fucking hard to figure out

>>44644497
Not any more. Old fuckboy Lucas sold it so what way he would have had the story go matters as much as what way I would.

>>44644525
She also knew WHERE she was flying, the TIE fighters did not. The TIE fighters STILL kept on her ass.

Are they mary-sues now too?

>>44644299
>If you look at Finn, he's been on sanitation detail forever

No he hasn't. He was on sanitation duty while stationed on Starkiller Base for an unknown period of time, nothing more, nothing less. Don't make shit up.

>>44644471
For >>44606488 →

It's more like

>girl rolls up with a force sensitive engineer and melee combat specialist
>Our only pilot gets separated from the party, I'm better at gunnery, girl gets some lucky rolls on our escape flight
>later she screws up and gets captured, DM introduces BBEG to her, also a force-user
>We end the session, DM okays her spending XP learning some basic force powers from observing BBEG and practicing on the Guards
>Our heavy weapons user gets a direct hit on the BBEG, leaves him half-dead
>Girl gets stunned by an attack, I hold him off for a couple rounds and get a hit in
>Girl manages to use her melee skill to improvise and finishes him off.

>>44644296
Except when she got captured ?
>spoiler
Oh god, that scene was ridiculous.
If they had done it on the spot with a reflex "close the door" move, it would have been nice, but the execution was terrible
>Monster dragging him for no good reason instead of eating him on the spot like the rest of the mercs
>"Eh, I'm gonna scream for help briefly every 30s, when she comes to intersections." Personally I would be shitting my pants and wouldn't shut my mouth until the door has closed

>>44644304
It's not like we had people speaking a lot of languages in the rest of star wars, anyways. Luke speaking at least binary, wookie and huttese in the movies, for example.
And the FFG rpg considers that players speaks all the languages they need to. Only very recluse races or forgotten civilizations need a translator.

>>44644574
She is force sensitive, she would know where she is flying.

>>44644188
>"girl power" moment was when Finn tries to help her get up after the marketplace on Jakku has been blown up by TIEs, and she refuses because that's not allowed for a strong independant woman
I literally cringed at this part. I wanted to punch whoever wrote that in.

>le "you only complain because she's a woman" excuse
Just so you know, people hate little Ani and his episode 1 bullshit too, so no, this has nothing to do with her being woman and everything with bad writing

>>44644471
>plus it's been derelict for years
Which doesn't actually make sense, the guy that had the ship clearly was in a position to repair the thing. Even if he hadn't repaired it, he should have. The guy was getting sophisticated tech salvaged for him by various people, that he was paying with food. Also that might be Rey's only flaw, complete inability to negotiate for better prices.

>>44644574
Not really, Poe says how fucking nible the Tie fighter is when he's in it.

Also, "Knowing" a Place has little bearing when it's a totally different perspective you're flying around in.

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>>44644496
The First Order uses the TIE/fo, which is a vastly upgraded TIE/ln. The ship that Finn and Poe stole is apparently some kind of special forces variant that gets a turret. An in-built hyperdrive isn't an impossible inclusion in that light.

>>44644188

Sueism and cringy girl power are separate issues that have been conflated it to one by various groups with different objectives.

It's why any discussion about Rey or TFA turns into a shitfest very quickly.

>>44644525
>So she's also a better pilot than LANDO.

I think you mean "so she somewhere around as good as Lando". They performed similar feats and so have similar skills; there's nothing here to suggest that she's better.

She flew through less than one kilometer of Star Destroyer (simply by the fact that an IMP-II is a kilometer long, and she didn't fly the whole length, so she must have flown less than one kilometer), while Lando flew through several dozens of kilometers worth of Death Star ducts. So the fact that Lando lost the radar dish doesn't mean much because she didn't have as much time to mess up.

Having said that, though, I'm not sure if this necessarily marks her as crazy-good, seeing as a couple of X-wing pilots were able to fly the ducts along with Lando, as well as several TIE/ln pilots; and likewise the TIE/ln pilot in TFA flew through the Star Destroyer safely as well.

What I want to know is why they had stormtroopers on sanitation duty. Do they not have janitors or droids to handle that?

>>44644615
No, you love Anakin because he's a dude.

>>44644507
Yeah, but thats actually my point. Ren's actions are dark because an actual Sith got in his head. He even says as much. That he constantly feels a "pull bact to the light." The dude is a wreck. I think that's why his force powers seem so jittery. He is masquerading as being evil, but I think subconsciously he is fighting himself.

And that's why Rey comes out on to at the end of the fight. Instead of delving deep into her fear and pain, she takes a second to steel herself with the force, and finishes the fight strong.

>>44644649
Do these ones have shields now?

Or is that still too expensive?

>>44644659
Lando needed his co-pilot.

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>>44643970

sup

>>44644556
TR-8R being "just a grunt" is what makes him cool. He should never be made into anything more than that, memes aside.

>>44644689
He HAD a co-pilot. We don't know that he *needed* it.

>>44644659
>>44644689
Also she is force sensitive. She could probably sense shit coming subconsciously at least.

>>44644613
>TotallyNotEmpire does a fucking air raid on your hometown - something that never happened to you before
>Luckily enough, you have a skilled soldier to get you through this - a member of the Motha Fucking REBELLION (which you really fucking admire)
>"Alright I know how to get outta this let's go"
>"NO NO GET YOUR HANDS OFF ME I'M STRONG I'M INDEPENDENT I DON'T NEED YOU"

If people don't like me seeing this as some sort of forced agenda shit - they should have no trouble with me seeing Rey as one dumb fucking bitch instead.

>>44643678
>Level One
>implying

>>44644692
People like this guy? I remember people complaining about him a lot, even his ridiculous way of using a lightsaber and how fucking overpowered he was.

Also him being the creator of the rebellion is just cringe inducing as fuck.

>>44644692
I liked star killer. And in fairness its not like his skills didn't make sense.
Also am I the only one who thought the first game was much better than the second one?

>>44644574
The basic TIE is one of the best starfighters in the galaxy and a lot fucking smaller than the Falcon. Not to mention they were being flown by trained pilots.

>>44644672
Hell, this was made pretty clear that she was guided by the force, because as yoda says, through the force a jedi's power flows etc.

Who gives a shit about them, it's Star Wars and the characters are naturally good at things and have talents that don't make sense.

I cannot believe people are actually taking realism in Star Wars this fucking seriously. I understand autistic nitpicking but Star Wars is just shoot-em-up wankery with "character development" mixed in for about 5 seconds. And it's fun to watch.

Stop taking it so seriously.

Why don't we try statting the characters in Savage Worlds or something to make us feel better?

>>44643949

I actually really liked that she used it like a spear, since she was carrying that staff around all the time before.

>>44644740
Supposedly he was to hold the lightsaber normally but a glitch made it flip backwards and they thought it was cool.

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>>44644698
I want him back promoted to captain, encased in a life support suit, his only drive to crush the rebellion and kill Finn.

He's the perfect foil both to Finn and the BBEG. He's utterly loyal, whereas Finn is willing to disobey orders he thinks are immoral. He also believes what he does is the right thing, and is determined to do it, whereas Kylo is just a whimpering bitch unsure of what he does.

>>44644660
He was a completely green newbie when they attacked the village. So it seems they have the stormtrooper trainee kids do menial labour as well as more military drills. Cheap labour, and can probably be used to teach them obedience and discipline and shit, like real life recruits scrubbing the barracks to near surgical standards.

>>44644692
No Starkiller was raised specifically to be a bad ass sith by Vader, and had a shit ton of resources put into his training. That he is an cringe worthy faggot is completely separate from that.

>>44644744
>I liked star killer
>literally the SINGLE WORST CHARACTER IN ALL OF STAR WARS
RRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE~

>Also am I the only one who thought the first game was much better than the second one?
They were both quit shit, but yeah - second one was substantially shittier.

>>44644594
Luke new Droid from working with them for most of his life. Same as Rey, that's okay.
Luke wasn't shown to know Wookie or Hutese until RotJ, well after receiving actual Jedi training and having been around the galaxy for a while.

>>44644708
Luke was also a force sensitive, he got hit by that training droid twice, got poor R2 almost killed and needed to be saved by Biggs, Wedge and Han. Guess being the son of the chosen one and having the force runing strong in his family means shit.

>>44643720

Not that I'm disagreeing, but this is still bait. Just like the OP.

>>44644801

Trioculus

>>44644067
Typical traits of a Mary Sue:

1) Obscenely skilled at seemingly everything and/or manifesting hitherto unknown expertise at the speed of plot.

2) Completely lacking in character flaws with the possible exception of "excessive virtues" like being "too loyal" or "too honest"

3) Having everyone in the plot adore/loath them from the word go.

4) Is an author insert character (you can have author inserts that are not Mary Sues)

Rey has the first 3 and I think that's enough to use the term. But considering "Star Wars fan insert character" is basically her role in the movie I think she qualifies for #4 as well.

>>44644805
Rey lived near a trading outpost, where learning other languages would be kind of necessary to survive.

>>44644713
I'm not sure why people are opposed to the idea of characters doing stupid shit or having weird hangups.

>>44644811
Luke was also a god damn farmer with no experience at anything but flying.

>>44644811
Luke also ignored most of the advice given to him about the force.

Rey did not.

>>44644801
He isn't that bad.

>>44644259

I thought I was the only person who thought that. The movie had lots of other good scenes. I even like Rey's character in theory. The acting is fine, but the writing was a mistake.

>>44644457

This. Anakin at least had character flaws, but you're right that he was a Gary Stu from day one and that's a big part of why people hate him.


Here's what I think happened with Rey and the writing. Kasdan is an excellent writer, so no problem there. But there's this toxic campus fascist twitter tumblr attitude that "if you don't like Rey then you're a SEXIST!!1!" Paired to that is a variation: "if you write a female character with any flaws, then you're supporting RAPE CULTURE and must be protested." Compelling characters have flaws and plot arcs.

Han and Lando start as jerks and then turn good. Luke is naive, inexperienced, and weak at first, then turns strong and competent. Leia starts as brusque and domineering, but eventually becomes sweet and compassionate. And all four have things they're good at and things they aren't; this defines them as characters and brings them together as a team.

Finn knows about the First Order and is great in a ground action. He quits the First Order but doesn't make the moral choice to fight them until later (he's growing as a character). Poe doesn't get much screen time, but basically he's a fighter ace, period. Both have room to grow as characters. Kylo Ren is magnificently flawed and not yet as powerful as he wants to be-- he's possibly even more compelling than Darth Vader.

But Rey can't be allowed to be not good at anything, and can't have character flaws, because tumblr. So instead she's bland and uninteresting, a character with nowhere to go. At best, they can retcon her back down and then train her back up in the next movie.

So these constant shooting from the hip attacks on people for being "sexist" (in addition to cheapening genuine sexism) also have lead to less compelling female leads. Nice going.

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>>44644834
>2) Completely lacking in character flaws with the possible exception of "excessive virtues" like being "too loyal" or "too honest"

What about her being in love with a nigger? I'd say that's a good enough character flaw.

>>44644754
And she's Force Sensitive, a trait long established to enhance reflexes and spacial-temporal reasoning.

>>44643678

I predict heel turn.

Kylo ren is going to run into leiaah or however you spell her name.
And her statue like face is going to remind him of his mask and he'll pretend to be good and go all grima on rey.

Rey will fall to the dark side vader style.
and lukes going to actually turn kylo.

Fin will be torn up about it and try to shoot kylo, but lukes going to take the bullet for him. which will be the cause of rey going over the edge.

>>44643678
To the space kitchen, and bring me a rancor sandwich

>>44643720

rey is just another brick in the wall of shitty star wars OCs thats occupied by 80-90% of EU characters like thrawn, starkiller & ashoka

>>44644842
You say farmer, but his job was more that of a mechanic. They didn't do any real farming, they just maintained, expanded, and worked on the condensers.

>>44644881
Also apparently being bad at bargaining.

>>44644004
EVERYBODY HATED KID ANAKIN YOU FUCKING FAGGOT

>>44643678
>"Ah. Could you show me how you got all these skills at level 1?"

If you take force sensitive at character creation you can learn a power that lets you use your use the force skill in place of your piloting skill.

>>44644692
At least Rey wasn't shoehorned into a previously existing story and made into a capital character.
>muh family crest was adopted as the Alliance emblem.
Christ.

>>44644659
>while Lando flew through several dozens of kilometers worth of Death Star

The only shot from far enough away shows them flying towards a completed piece of surface, so by the original official size he managed about 160km in there, while the updated number would have it a 900km trip in and out.

>>44644867
Rey didn't receive any advice about the Force so you're correct.

>>44644905
Well then he had no experience at anything but flying and mechanics.

>>44644380
>Empire (still Cannon)
When was it explained that the Empire turned into a massive cannon? Was the entire Empire literally consumed to create the Starkiller base? And how can it still be a Cannon after the base was destroyed?

It's canon you fuck

>>44644922
I thought that was neat. It didn't really effect the story in any way.

>>44644881
>She isn't. Finn get friendzoned hard in the last scene.

>>44644023
Yeah, I didn't like Finn much because I'm racist, but it would have been nice if he was more than just the comic relief. If Rey is Han and Luke, that leaves Finn as Jar Jar Binks.

Admittedly it was kind of nice to see him fighting Kylo for a bit, even though Kylo had to have been shot in the gut by arguably the strongest handheld blaster seen so far in the series for that fight to even be possible.

>>44644922
What were they gonna do, not honor the guy that sacrificed himself so they could all escape?

>>44644929
Yes, she received very explicit advice on the Force from someone who was very strong in the Force even though she was no Jedi. If you don't recall it, then you have no business arguing in this thread at all.

A million credits says the next movie starts with Luke on his death bed, after spending years training Rey. tells Rey 'ur my unwanted daughter lol' and then die and becomes a force ghost.
That way he's not there to steal the spot light from our COOL NEW CHARACTERS (which is why he wasnt in TFA until the very end)

>>44644983
>someone who was very strong in the Force even though she was no Jedi
Headcanon is not canon, anon.

>>44644965
>>She isn't. Finn get friendzoned hard in the last scene.

how so?

Mate they better end up together or I am going to rage hard. And yes I am the guy you replied to. This is the only one of th shitty love stories in these movies I've ever cared about.

>>44644926
I was being deliberately small.

So, that's fine then, Lando flew 900 km and managed to knock off the radar dish. Rey flew less than 1 km and managed to knock off nothing, which means that she succeeded at basic piloting, since the usual goal when piloting something is to not hit anything.

So, again, I don't think we have enough to go on to label Rey as being a truly fantastic pilot.

>Leia runs to hug someone she never saw or heard about before ignoring poor Chewie who just lost his best friend
If this is not a mary sue trait I dunno what it's

>>44645004
You're joking, right? She outright states that she isn't a jedi but that she understands the force. And I'm not talking about Rey. Then she gives Rey advice on how to use the force.

You are literally ignoring the movie itself.

Whens this movie going to be out on the internet in good quality? I would go to a cinema but I am stuck in the fucking countryside.

>>44645006
She kissed him on the forehead.

That's 0% chance yo.

>>44645006
They were just friends that went through a lot together and therefore cared for each other. People that assume a hugs and caring about the other's well being is suddenly love have no idea what they're talking about.

>>44645031
...maybe he was highlighting the "very strong in the Force" part? We don't know that. You can understand the Force without being strong in it.

That would, however, seem to be needlessly pedantic on his part.

>>44644431
Rey doesn't have a single problem with her character that Anakin Skywalker didn't have. It isn't hypocrisy to say that the BOTH are fucking stupid characters. But, for some reason, twits are ten times more willing to go to bat for Rey than they are for Anakin.

>>44645040
Wasn't he comatose when that happened? If he was awake it'd be a bad sign, but he was knocked out.

>>44644689
Yeah, they have shields now, and some other upgrades to keep them serviceable against the T-70s. FO apparently doesn't have the resources of the Empire (sans the stupid fuckhuge deathstar mkXXII) so they focus somewhat more on quality rather than quantity.

>>44645027
Pretty sure it was meant a hint that she's a Skywalker, Leia being her mother or aunt.

>>44645016
Luke is also a basic pilot, he managed to flight straight and press red button on time.
Anakin is also a basic pilot, he managed to flight without getting killed.
Yeah, your definition pretty much works for absolutely anyone who doesn't screws it badly.

But you forgot something.
Death Star duct was intented to lure rebels into a trap, it was engineered to be big enough but not to big, it was in the design.

Imperial destroyer wreck with some holes on it wasn't designed to be piloted.

>>44644442
Over the top character does not equal mary sue. i point at Raiden from MGR. RULESOFNATURE not withstanding, its a VERY over the top character with VERY deep flaws

>>44644240
> She masters everything she tries after (at most) a momentary setback.
> The choreography in that fight was shit in general, its hard to tell if she was *supposed* to look like shit.
> Even if she is too trusting its a flaw that never has any actual downsides for her. She basically just trusts everyone that we as the audience knows she should trust.

>>44645065

Not disagreeing, but we might just be forgetting how much complaining about Anakin there was at the time. It's been *years*, after all.

>>44645031
Guess Han is also strong in the Force.

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>>44643678
Dude, this movie was entirely about making as few mistakes as possible and appealing to as many people as possible. Hence the rehashed plot, the nostalgia characters and so on.

As for the girl, pic related

>>44645086
Anakin also managed to fight a bunch of droids at the age of ten. A bit more impressive than managing to fly through part of a ship.

>>44645065
It's been 17 since little Ani, and you seem to completely ignore the amounts of hate that little shit generated just to prove your point.

>>44645016
>evaded multiple tiefighters
>flew a big ship inside a fucking star destroyer while professional pilots had more trouble doing it
>turned off propulsion to do a flip and put the locked down turret in the exact correct angle to hit a shot and then turned the propulsion back on

>>44645065
>But, for some reason, twits are ten times more willing to go to bat for Rey than they are for Anakin.
Because everyone who hates Anakin already raged hard, wrote kilometers of copypasta, fought in flamewars, went through a drunken depression, got out of it and learned to go on with their in the imperfect world that contains the abomination that is Anakin Skywalker.

You know, back when PREQUELS JUST HIT CINEMA AND WERE RELEVANT. BECAUSE IT'S SO WEIRD THAT PEOPLE DON'T GO AROUND BASHING THE MOVIE THAT CAME OUT 17 YEARS AGO AS MUCH AS THEY DO TO A RECENT BLOCKBUSTER.

>>44644835
Already been established that wookie isn't just something you "pick up". Wookies aren't even that common in the first place.

>>44645056

Yeah and this is a fucking star wars movie not real life. Theyll end up fucking dude. It's required by law to have black men fucking white women in movies now.

>>44645065

Virtually everyone hated Anakin in his first appearance. It was even worse because expectations were so much higher for Ep. I

Rey's might not be as bad overall, but there are a hell of a lot of holes to patch. Pulling off complicated stuff like the Mind Trick without even knowing what the hell it is seems very poorly done and is something Anakin never tried pulling in the first movie.

>>44644493
>What I don't get is why every single motherfucker in a Stormtrooper suit gets anti-jedi training, but doesn't get basic gunnery training or basic pilot training.

We saw that in the movie. So they won't steal a TIE fighter and try to escape.

I'm fine w/ Rey knowing how to fly. I'm NOT fine with her being an ace pilot in addition to everything else she is.

Weaknesses don't make a character weak. They make her more relatable, tie her to her teammates (who rely on HER to fill in their gaps, too), and give her somewhere to go in her character arc. They make her stronger *as a character*.

Nathan Fillion talked about something like this a few years ago. He said he's always intent on stressing his characters' weaknesses. Viewers get drawn in by those, and it makes the character more interesting. Amateur actors (and writers) are often afraid to show weaknesses because they think they'll appear weak.

But you only have to turn your head slightly in the same movie to see Adam Driver's amazing performance as Kylo Ren: a character chock full o' weakness who is still a powerful and compelling villain. (And notice how Poe, with limitations but few weaknesses, is less interesting than Finn or Kylo, both deeply flawed.)

>>44644574
>>44644659

She out-flew agile fighters in a tramp freighter. A mostly broken tramp freighter.

>>44644577
>>44644660

As any military person will tell you, shit details are part of the job for infantrymen. It's not that he's "a janitor, not a soldier", it's that jobs like this are part of BEING a soldier. When I saw that, it drove home Finn's status as an ordinary grunt.

>>44644613

Meh, that was funny.

>>44644629

This made sense to me. The Falcon is so hot rodded that I'm not surprise that all attempts to fix it have broken it more.

>>44645112
>that pic
Supreme strawman is supreme

>>44645137
>is force sensitive
Being force sensitive is literally hax.

>>44644665
>I'm omniscient and automatically know the opinions and motivations of literally everyone on the internet

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you're either retarded, autistic, or both.

>>44643678
>>>/pol/

>>44643678
She's not a Mary Sue because we know dick about her, so in Episode 8 when Yoda's force ghost tells Luke she's Obi Wan reincarnated or something your going to feel like an enormous ass, so instead of admitting that the fucking obvious foreshadowing that something huge was up for her wasn't "Reeeeeee, Mary Sue" the whole time you'll insist it's a clumsy retcon to address your personal complaint instead of you just being an enormous fag.

The TL,DR their are space wizards in this franchise stop bitching about mah realism.

>>44643997
I am a little annoyed that he used the lightsaber without having any training with any sword-like weapon and never hurt himself with it.

>>44645065
...

Dude, by any chance, did happen to watch prequels just recently? Because, you know, that would kinda explain how you find the lack of current discussion about a pretty old movie strange. It would also explain how you don't remember the amount of RRRAAAAGE that was dumped on little Ani when the movie was released - by the virtue of you being around his age at the time.

>>44644771
Being pissy doesn't make you right

>>44645160
She took less time to do crazy shit than Luke did, speciallly considering Luke himself said he had piloted before.
She also did crazier shit than Luke did.

>>44645190
Being able to do lots of stuff flawlessly without zero explanation is a mary sue trait

>>44644392
I don't get why people think Kylo being in shit condition is why he lost that fight.

After being shot, emotionally messed up, whatever, he -

Beat the heroes in a dead sprint out of the facility (after they had a head start).

Casually threw Rey into a tree with the Force, knocking her unconscious.

Toyed with Finn until he got tagged, then disarmed and mortally wounded him IMMEDIATELY.

And forced Rey to cede ground continuously up to the chasm - the sign that he was the stronger fighter.

Kylo Ren obviously didn't lose that fight from being injured.

He lost that fight for the same reason the person he just TKed into a tree suddenly had more skill at TK than him.

He lost it for the same reason the person he drove all across the arena with his swordplay suddenly overcame his skill with a lightsaber.

He lost it because the authors baldly demanded it, erecting only the thinnest potempkin village to hide their puppetry.

>>44644979
finn honestly felt more like luke than rey did

>>44643678
It's clumsy foreshadowing not bad character design.

>>44645214
And a force sensitive trait in general.

>>44645209
No, you have to write in every post that kid Anakin is a mary sue or else that means you don't think he's a mary sue

>>44645214
>Mechanics
Scrapped stuff for a living
>Lightsabers
Used staffs before and fought a cripple
>Piloting
Had a speeder and the force
>Blasters
Had the force

>>44645214

You heard it here first, every monster in every horror movie is a mary sue.

>>44645190
>t-they're space wizards
>originals don't show people going full hax right off the bat
>even original anakin had a learning curve and faults despite being literally the fucking chosen one
>SPEHS WEEZARDS

They better show she had trainning before and had her memory erased coupled with being of the Skywalker family or something. You don't get that the problem is she is hax in comparison to the franchise itself.

>>44643943
>at mid-game
Fuck you, I'm currently playing in a high-XP total game and even I'd call what Rey does bullshit. You need a fucking reason to start dumping XP into Force powers, and if you don't have Discipline out the wazoo you're gonna get your shit stomped if you try and out-Force a Dark Jedi

>>44643984
>>44644004
>>44644692

So maybe you've missed my point so I'll clarify:

Provide me with the male version of Rey that people don't hate equally if not more than they hate Rey..

Bonus points: As above but provide evidence that people dismiss the characters failings based solely on them being male.

>>44643949
https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/3y2ely/theory_addressing_some_of_the_mary_sue_speak/

>>44645211
Yeah but she is a more go getting character than luke.

>>44645253
Monsters are often plot devices not characters.

Are you saying Rey is a plot device?

>>44645065
Anakin also spent the next ~20 odd years being utterly miserable and hateful about everything, most off all himself before dying due to damaged life support systems in his suit.
He may have lived the high life in the prequels, but his life afterwards was pretty shit.

>>44645253
I don't remember Alien being an ace pilot and excellent mechanic while also overpowering trained dark siders in mind tricks. Shit, I need to rewatch alien.

>>44645274
Obligatory 'reddit boo hiss'.

>>44645214
Except there is a hugely obvious "but" going on here, it's fucking obvious they are going to have an explanation, and just because they didn't want to give it to you in the first chapter doesn't make it bad.

>>44645269

People hated Episode I Anakin so badly they ruined the child actor's life.

>>44645263
He isnt a full bore dark jedi though.

>>44645211
>beating up a edgy kid who is shit at the force

vs

>blowing up a huge planet destroying death weapon

I guess luke is a gary stu.

>>44645086
>Death Star duct was intented to lure rebels into a trap, it was engineered to be big enough but not to big, it was in the design.

This is...where, exactly?

>>44645137
>evaded multiple tiefighters

Lando had just come through an entire major battle against thousands of TIE fighters of multiple types.

>>flew a big ship inside a fucking star destroyer while professional pilots had more trouble doing it

The TIE/ln pilot did just fine when flying through the wrecked IMP-II.

>>turned off propulsion to do a flip and put the locked down turret in the exact correct angle to hit a shot and then turned the propulsion back on

Bitch I do that all the damn time in StarFox 64. Not to mention that at a certain point "it's a fantasy movie" is, in fact, a valid excuse.

>>44645143
Does she actually speak Wookiee at any point? I don't recall her doing that.

>>44645275
She also managed to find out mind control is a thing from having Ren try to find memories from her.
"Oh I guess you can enter my head to see my memories so I can control people's minds"

>>44645006
When he's unconscious in the infirmary, she says something along the lines of "goodbye, my friend". Maybe it's different in english, but in the language I've seen the movie in, it was pretty clear that there was no romantic undertones here.

>>44644979
From a foreigner standpoint, Finn was oozing "afro-american comic relief" by every pore, it was nearly unbearable, even if he's actually a cool character.
It's one of my main issues with the movie actually (with the blatant ep.IV ripoff and the totally manichean view of the Force), the dialogues are kinda meh and very contemporary, I don't think it will age very well compared to the original trilogy, which was pretty free of ethnocentrism on that regard and could be exported very easily as a result.

>>44644981
From a political standpoint, yes, because it's a very bad move.
Imagine if Obama was saved by a random dude from a foreign country and as a result they wrote his name in big letters on the star and stripes. That's the same level.
Not to mention that it could scare eveyone that didn't like the starkiller family from the rebellion.

>>44645065
There have been literal decades since little Annie, Force Jesus. Come back in 2036 and see if people are still raging so hard about Rey.

>>44645296
The original ending to alien had it copying riply's voice and sending out a distress call.

>>44645316
>I used to fire at womp rats all the time back home, they are not much bigger than that fucking hole thing shit
>guess somehow my skill is unexplained despite me being a pilot
>and having been mildly trained in how to use the force

>>44645190
>realism
Who said anything about realism? she needs character.

>>44644834
>1) Obscenely skilled at seemingly everything and/or manifesting hitherto unknown expertise at the speed of plot.
>2) Completely lacking in character flaws with the possible exception of "excessive virtues" like being "too loyal" or "too honest"

It stemmed from fanfic because you'd get writers who thought "compelling character" equals "good at everything". Simply upping the power level doesn't make a bland character interesting. A good ensemble has a diverse mix of personalities, skills, and talents. That's what makes each character distinctive and gives them a natural role in the plot.

Even in the case of Han and Leia, who in RPG terms could probably be different builds of the same character class, you'll notice that Han is in charge whenever they're doing sneaky roguish things and Leia is the group leader whenever they're in a place where her nobility kicks in.

>3) Having everyone in the plot adore/loath them from the word go.

Which is the point. You get a character who takes over everything: the plot and the relationships with other characters. To the detriment of everything, including their own character.

Another perfect example of this is Neo from The Matrix. A fantastic movie that was widely loved... except for the mary sue-ish lead character who everyone loved from the beginning and was literally the omni-competent messiah character. But remember that even HE started out weak/hesitant/cowardly. At least his character had an arc.

>4) Is an author insert character (you can have author inserts that are not Mary Sues)

And although the term Mary Sue came from fanfic, it doesn't have to be fanfic nor does it have to be an author insert to be a Mary Sue. The original term Mary Sue came from a female author writing about another female author's Star Trek fanfic-- it wasn't sexist. Gary Stu is the male equivalent.

>>44645314

Exactly my point.

I wonder why the patriarchy didn't intervene.

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>>44643720

>>44645152
>Adam Driver's amazing performance as Kylo Ren: a character chock full o' weakness who is still a powerful and compelling villain.

>Kylo Ren
>Powerful and Compelling villain

Don't even pretend Ren is at all a threatening figure, let along a "powerful and compelling villain". The motherfucker literally throws (at least) three full-on tantrums during the course of a single movie.

>>44645315
Ben definitely has had more training in how to use his powers than Rey does. Y'know, before he did his little Anakin tribute.
And a lot of the bad guys in F&D aren't technically Dark Jedi either, but it's still a bad idea to try and go mind to mind with one if your entire experience with the Force is "I touched a lightsaber once"

>>44645351
Oh yeah so firing at rats is equal to killing skilled troopers.

He never flew outside his planet.

He is a shit gary stu.

>>44643720
I can't prove that I wouldn't, but if I didn't, I should. Maybe my problem is not that I hate female characters but that I don't hate male characters enough. I should hate everyone because everyone is 90% garbage.

>>44645369

Because omniscient hate-group overminds don't exist, you delusional fuck.

>>44644912

That's a lie. Anakin Skywalker was a fan favorite and along with his incredible chemistry with Queen Amidala was what made the prequels such an artistic triumph.

Also, you can tell what shitlord sexists the posters are here because they call Rey a Mary Sue just like they said about Leia and Amidala.

>>44645250
Swords and spears are the same thing!
Driving a motorcycle is the same as flying a 747!

stop

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>>44645385
His skill has an explantion, he already flew ships and had some training in the force, AND he had a squadron of professional pilots with him.
She literally never flew a ship and was able to evade and beat professional pilots, even without the force, and being alone against many, and with malfunctioning weapons.

Stop the shitty bait/crap argument. You are just a mong.

>>44645398

>What are jokes?

She's not a Mary Sue. She's a protagonist. You know who else is incredibly lucky/talented beyond belief?

Conan. Rambo. Anakin. Tom Cruise in the Last Samurai. That peasant boy in Knight's Tale (that without training turns out the great jouster in the world in a peasant diet.). Batman (you know, the guy who single handled beat all bandits, gangs and even other superheroes). Oh, and all anime protagonist ever. All of them. Every single one of them. Specially the male ones. Specially the young males. And the guy from Beserk. Oh, a Harry Potter, of course. And Shepard, from mass effect, regardless of how you play him. And Max Payne. Actually, every RPG game protagonist learns too fast, saves the world single handed or near so and has undeserved superpowers...

Anyway, I could go on but you see my point. Or you would see if you were not stupid, OP:

>>44645332
>When he's unconscious in the infirmary, she says something along the lines of "goodbye, my friend". Maybe it's different in english, but in the language I've seen the movie in, it was pretty clear that there was no romantic undertones here.

She still wants to get railed by his BBC. And this is fucking disney you remember, it always starts out like that shit in a Disney movie.

More Ripley and Furiosa like characters, less Rey!

>>44645190
>so in Episode 8 when Yoda's force ghost tells Luke she's Obi Wan reincarnated or something
Actually, that would push any character further towards suedom if all it ever does is "justify" their powers. It's undeserved attention.

The defining trait of a sue is not competence or being liked, it's warping the entire story/world around them.

>>44645385
>Oh yeah so firing at rats is equal to killing skilled troopers.
Luke was a shit shot and barely made his way through firefights. Han, Chewbacca and fucking Leia were the real killers. Luke just flew fighters really well because the controls were exactly the same as a trainer craft he practiced daily in.

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>>44643720

Rey is basically if Anakin from episode 1 fought with Darth Sideous and won.

Of course we would have criticized George Lucas for such bullshit.

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>>44645403

>>44643984
>>44643728

firstly, everyone hated Anakin Skywalker.

Secondly, he's not really a gary stu because he is flawed. Especially in the second two films you're meant to dislike his whinyness and his emotional immaturity (unfortunately Lucas took that a little too far). It's just that his character arc kind of works in reverse. Whereas with Luke we got to watch him grow, with Anakin we got to watch him disintegrate. Anakin had to start off as something special in order for the writers to have something to take away. Maybe the second film will show Rei fuck up big time, in which case that will work better. But I doubt it.

>>44643720
And this is how they get away with it. The more cynical part of me thinks that the reason they cast a black guy and a woman in the lead was because it gives the movie a certain amount of immunity from criticism. You are never going to get the same level of hate you got over Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen directed against either a minority or a woman. Not under these circumstances, where it's a big deal that they're taking a franchise that used to be dominated by white men and 'diversifying' it.

>>44645385
Oh and
>firing at rats is like killing skilled troopers
That phrase makes no sense, did you even watch the movie? Do you know what the quote I referenced (in my own words) was talking about in the movie?
They were discussing the death star destruction mission, Luke pipes up to say that it's not impossible, that back home he'd pilot and shoot targets of similar size.

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>>44643720

Well done, dykedaughtyr. You showed them!

>>44645410
Shooting womprats and shooting Stormtroopers is the same thing!
Flying through a canyon on a planet is the same as dogfighting in space!

Heck, Rey doesn't even dogfight in space. Just in the atmosphere. Where she was used to flying on her custom speeder.

>>44645414

Jokes are funny, anon.

>>44645421
>Rambo
>established to have a shitload of practical experience in Special Forces stuff
>Batman
>decades of training and being a devious fuck, even so he can't just go hand to hand with Supes and expect to live, motherfucker needs a plan
kek

>>44645421
Those characters actually have fucking explanations for why they are good at what they do. Unlike Rey, who just excels at everything from the get go.

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>>44645104
>>44645130
>>44645141
>>44645145
>Argue that people aren't hating Rey just because they're sexists
>Get accused that I'm just saying people hate Rey because they're sexist

>>44645421
Go home tumblr, you're drunk.

>>44645433
>comparing Kylo-Ren to Sidious
Kylo's a punk

>>44645467
A speeder flies in 2D and a ship flies in 3D though

>>44645403
10/10, made me laugh.

>>44645153

And yet still a valid point, however irrelevant.

>>44644898
>thrawn
>shitty
Go read a fucking book you nigger, you sure are fucking dumb.

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>>44645467
>Heck, Rey doesn't even dogfight in space. Just in the atmosphere. Where she was used to flying on her custom speeder.
>riding a dirtbike is totally the same as driving a semi

>>44645421
I can't speak for anybody else, but Rambo was a SF vet with tons of emotional scarring and no friends. And First Blood was him having a really long PTSD flashback. But then again, I've never seen anything past First Blood.

>>44645481
Oh sure...So special training with special forces makes you able to take down a chopper with a bow. That's rich. Or you know, single handedly wipe out militia camps and such. And I should assume that batman trained with the same special forces.

Surely the power of Elite Military training can be exaggerated for cinematic effects, but let's ensure that Magic Space Wizards are held down to your realistic standards. The female ones at least.

>>44645421
Harry Potter fails all the time and needs his friends all the time, actually he is basically nothing without his friends.
Max Payne is a drug addict alcoholic mess that only exists to fire bullets in time-slow.
Shepard can't convince the council of the reaper threat, Shepard can't save everyone or anniihilate the Reapers, Shepard isn't a super pilot and doesn't really do things solo, in fact his entire crew does shit all the time, that said he is a shitty diplomancer.
Batman? Yeah depending on the writer. And that's why many people hate him, others love him because while he is super powerful, he is only a dude against super aliens and gods, so a power fantasy.
>Anakin
Kid anakin is universally hated. Adult anakin is a fucking sperglord ragemonster.
>Rambo
Action movie, and in the original while Ramboo is a fucking badass he is also an emotional wreck with PTSD and loads of crazy shit in his head.

>>44645493
They are, she is a fine character.

>>44645467
were you born with terrible comprehension or do you practice it?

Shooting womprats is the same as hitting an exhaust port, not fuckin storm troopers. Luke is terrible with a blaster. He nails a couple troopers after ben dies, fair enough. dark side emotions, force sensitive, blah blah.

Flying through a desert canyon is like flying through a metal canyon in space! Oh lawdy, so different!. Luke had ace wingmen covering him and got bailed out when vader was about to smoke him.

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>>44645370
Probaly bait yeah, but also probaly at least partialy true in the sense that "is a woman" does tend to be another ping on people's Mary Stu radar. Not to mention a lot of the people complaining about Rey on these threads phrase their complaints in terms of how Disney "can't let their strong female protagonist do wrong" particularly when comparing the stuff she does to the pratfalls Finn goes through.

So why it might not be -the- reason people complain it's definataly -a- reason.

>>44645209
What I'm saying is that Anakin and Rey are both stupid, boring characters for the same reasons, but people are unwilling to admit it because they're afraid they'll be called sexists.

>>44645421

See this is the kind of willful ignorance and stupidity that really gets me going in these threads.

>>44645263
>probably Luke's daughter.
>saber apparently acting like an holocron in the movie
That sounds like good enough reasons to purchase Force powers.
Plus she just has good Ag score. Probably 4. Two ranks in piloting, some more in mechanics or knowledge. That's nothing impossible. Spec'd blaster or cqc chars in EotE are able to do far worse shit that what we see in the movie.

Also, when does she outforce Ren? Genuine question, can't remember it.

>>44645528
youre right, riding a dirtbike is harder

I can't wait for episode 8 when Luke tries to teach Rey.
>STOP MANSPLAINING THE FORCE TO ME

>>44645467
>riding a back is the same as piloting a space ship

>shooting womp rats
>shooting stormtroopers
Shooting the rats was about hitting the port in the Death Star you fuckface, it was a reference to the size of the target that would be hit by the fighter squadron, go watch the movie. Jesus christ, we get that you're trying to defend your waifu but get some fucking grasp..

>>44645065
I don't have a problem with Rey, but I have a problem with fuckwits like you blaming shit on sexism.

Need I remind you that the backlash that the actor who played young Anakin received was so strong it directly affected his life and made him afraid of cameras and bitter towards everything.

Anakin was fucking HATED. Far more than Rey.

Maybe you're all now aware that SW is a shit franchise and you have bad taste for supporting it?

>>44645481
>even so he can't just go hand to hand with Supes and expect to live
I see you haven't read Batman. He can win vs anyone with minimal preptime because plot

>>44645535

If you know how to use explosives, know how to shoot a bow, and know what it takes to bring down a helicopter, you can combine those skills you already have to commence your virtuous mission.

> "Oh, ok..."
> "*sigh* Just gimme your back-story then..."

I wonder why there are so many That Guy stories...

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>>44645532
Here's a real dude. Rambo ain't got shit.

>>44645476

>Implying belief in "the patriarchy" is the funniest joke of them all

>>44645532
You don't get it, friend.
These people had training. Whatever that training was that let them pull off what they did, there was plausible evidence for their feats based off prior experience implied or show.
Rey just has "its the Force lol". The only other character that pushed that excuse was Anakin as a kid, and people hated him for it.

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>>44645512
>>44645528
>pushes her piloting skills to the limits

I will admit, it would have been good for them to bring this up in the movie or hint at it, but it's not like there's 0 explanation like everyone wants to claim.

>>44645283
Anakin and Darth Vader are two separate characters, basically. Especially because the latter came before the former.

>>44645031

She says she knows about the Force due to her long life and the history she's seen, not that she can use it herself.

But, sure, I'll humor you. Regale us with your tales of all the scenes where she used her force powers in the battle fought at her tavern.

>>44645065

Am I the only one who understood what you were saying? People bitched about Anakin back then just as much as Rey, if not more. But what Anakin didn't have on his side were an army of tumblrinas who insisted that we only hate that awesome character because we're sexists.

>>44645082

The hug was fine. I'm assuming Rey is skywalker's daughter but even if she isn't it makes perfect sense that Rey runs out to comfort the person who will be most wounded by the death of Han. And Leia was shown sensing his death so of course she'll need a hug of mourning.

My problem with Rey isn't that she's poorly performed, it's that she's too perfect and bland and there's nowhere to go with her. Except possibly a fall to he dark side, but I don't think that's good for the series as a whole.

The Rey we saw in this movie would have been perfect if it was the character she grew into in Episode 9. The problem is that we should never have STARTED here with her.