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Renegade Space Marine Tau Mercenaries
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Is this a good idea for a chapter ?
My idea is that they are a chapter that values learning and technological advancement which made them come to blows with the Adeptus Mechanicus.
At the end they fled to Tau space since that is the only place where they would be sort of safe and made a deal with the Tau. They would act as mercenaries for the price of a planet to call home, recruits, and access to Tau tech and armaments. They would also make many deals and contracts with Eldar and tolerant Rogue Traders.
They became total tech heretics mixing Xenos and dark age technology but they have nothing to do with chaos.
They usually rather not fight the imperium but do so if they have no choice but consider the Ad Mech as fools and degenerates that impede progress and happily take on missions to liberate relics from there grasp.
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>>44640915
I think the Imperium would consider that pretty friggin' heretical and be forced to form an actual Crusade through Tau space instead of semi-ignoring them or tossing weak Crusades at them as has been standard practice.

Entire chapters joining Chaos is bad enough. An entire chapter joining the Tau means that the Tau are a much, much larger threat to Imperium stability than has been previously shown, and they're continued existence only makes the problem worse as time goes on. Especially if they determine how to engineer geneseed.
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>>44640915
What the fuck.

What the fuck.

WHAT THE FUCK.

Not even Chaos Space Marines would ally themselves with god damn Xenos as servants. Xenos are universally hated by humanity, especially Astartes, even renegade Astartes. The only time Astartes are willing to work with Xenos is in the case of like Chaos Space Marines employing Kroot as cannon fodder. And that's because the Kroot will get slaughtered, and they're employed/enslaved by the Astartes, not swearing fealty to the Kroot mercs.

Your idea is batshit and completely unsupported in the fluff. They'd kill themselves before they sold out to fucking Xenos of all things. Not to mention that Tau space ain't safe at all considering the whole fucking Damocles Gulf just burst into flame.
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sounds mary sue as fuck
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>>44640915
>Is this a good idea for a chapter ?
No. Space Marines are specifically conditioned to hate the shit out of xenos, and that much heresy might piss off the Imperium to dedicate enough resources to destroy the Tau. It could work for an Admech forge world, but definitely not Astartes.
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>>44640915
No. God no.

Individual Spess Mahreens could be a thing.
Used as HQ and such for a Spess Mahreen/Guer'va auxillary army that use Tau shit instead of Imperium stuff but not for a whole chapter.

I can see a couple of Space Marines going Tau mode for the fact that Tau are showing them a better way and some Space Marine might go 'oh hey, I better get in on this since it will serve humanity better than the Imperium'
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>>44640997
They're so well indoctrinated on that matter that even when they sell their souls to fucking Chaos and renounce their loyalty to their own species they still hate Xenos.
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If Space Marines can go FULL HERESY, the most utterly antithetical position to the Imperium and the Emperor himself which also frequently includes consorting with especially foul xenos, and have done so regularly and en masse, it seems like going FULL GREATER GOOD is much less unlikely. It's not even necessarily 'fuck the imperium' like Chaos is, just 'hey this way is better'. I imagine it'd appeal to the more humanitarian chapters who actually care about quality of life for people. A minor chapter that's a successor of, say, the Salamanders or Ultramarines might feasibly be swayed by it if they first go Renegade (possibly because the Imperial Bureaucracy/Inquisition fucked them over) and then see the Greater Good as an alternative that would better serve the Imperium.
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>>44640915
I'd rather have a Space marine Guyver chapter which is fled to the outer rim of the galaxy and found a new resolve and reason to exist after protecting an human/xeno Imperium against several C'tan gods who wanted to eat everyone's souls.
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Aren't there cases of Space Marines not immediately slaughtering Tau?
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>>44641071
Except it isn't anon, stop your bullshit. Chaos doesn't consort with Xenos unless absolutely necessary, and even then they loathe it beyond all else. Humanity HATES xenos, this is ground into every child, not even Astartes, but the species on a whole, from BIRTH. No Astartes Chapter will join the Tau, just as no Chapter will join the Eldar. The only thing xenos deserve is death. Even gods-damned Chaos agrees on this.

Not to mention that your understanding of 40k seems to be complete shit, because Space Marines are sovereign nations like the Crusader Orders. They rule over their planets with complete freedom, some even having miniature empires. They can be as progressive as however the hell they want to be.
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>>44641041
Could you not have a chapter of marines that are so well indoctrinated on that matter that even when they sell their bodies to fucking Xenos and renounce their loyalty to their own species they still hate Chaos?
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>>44641071
Ugh.

>>44641086
Many, but they'd never join them.
You've got a better chance of the emperor getting up and dancing a jig. Everything about the Greater Good is opposed to what SM believe.the core SM belief.
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>>44641099
No. That's the thing. They'll turn to the Chaos Gods before they turn to an alien empire. No Chapter would ever join the Tau. Especially when the Damocles Gulf is on fire.
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>>44641099
Nope. Chaos both passively and actively tries to convert them. Xenos don't have that ability.

>>44641086
Yes, and they might even form temporary alliances on occasion, but actually joining them is an entirely other box of frogs.
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>>44641071
That's not right at all though, if you recall the Emperor wasn't hot on mentioning Chaos at all, never mind stating any opposition to it.

The core tenet of the Emperor was the superiority of humans over all other life and the elimination of all xenos so that humanity could rule the galaxy.

All Space Marines still share that goal, whether ruling under the Emperor or the Chaos Gods.
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>>44641096
Sovereign nations who are nonetheless beholden to the Imperium. Not officially, as such, but if they get too uppity and don't have a major chapter there to bail them out, Ork Snipers might show up. Being 'progressive' might well get them the attention of basically anyone who doesn't like the look of it, including other chapters. Or combine both things and just send the Minotaurs at them because <some kind of HERESY>.
As for Chaos not consorting with Xenos, check out the Yu'vath or the Saruthi who are Chaos-corrupted Xenos races. In addition, Chaos will happily employ Xenos both as individual mercenaries and as larger groups. See: Dark Eldar Mandrakes and a Loxatl Brood in Sabbat Martyr and larger numbers of Loxatl in Guns of Tanith, respectively. No idea if there's other examples but that's just the ones I know first-hand.
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Sounds super fucking snowflake, but still not the most Mary Sue concept around. You get the approval of this faceless internet drone.
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>>44641207
Speaking of xenos, what kind of xenos exist other than then major races? Are there any non-humanoids?
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>>44640915
Before you drown yourself in the NO responses, remember that there's room for anything in 40k's "Everything and nothing is accurate fluff". Also, I'd like to suggest a way that it could work in my interpretation of the setting.

While an SM chapter would NEVER go so far as actually swearing fealty to Xenos, a battered renegade chapter on the run might disgustedly seek refuge in Tau space. They might even be convinced to assist the local Gue'vesa in what would essentially be mercenary work for further supplies and safe harbour. It would be grudgingly done at first, but if they stayed long enough and the decision was made to recruit from the local Tau-cultured human populations...

More likely however, is an SM chapter being introduced to Tau tech and ideals via an indirect party such as non-Imperial human worlds. Vast swathes of Imperial worlds on the Fringe are Imperial in name only, often acting completely independently and even defecting wholesale to the Tau as their culture and influence expands.
It wouldn't even require human worlds that were actually part of the Tau Empire, all that is needed is human populations in a close enough proximity to Tau space and little enough supervision from the wider Imperium. Then the influx of forbidden Xenos ideas and tech is inevitable.

Over time, a Chapter based there might well be influenced. Not enough to get in bed with the Tau, but possibly enough for them to back (or even lead) a human secessionist movement in the sector that would co-operate more actively with the Tau than more toe-the-line systems would.


>TL;DR Space Marines would say fuck you to aliens, but it's entirely possible the end result would be the same if enough Human worlds defected
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>>44641253
There's loads, they just don't get mentioned much outside of stuff like the FFG line or some of the novels.
Checking Lexicanum for reminders, the Saruthi themselves are a pretty good example. Only appeared in, appropriately, Xenos, the first Eisenhorn book. They are like weird fucking crab-things that are asymmetrical in every way and do all sorts of bizarro chaos shit. Also they have crazy power like being able to create entire pocket dimensions with fucked-up physics.
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>>44641138
I wouldn'tsay it's totally off the table just unlikely. Renegade chapters acting as mercs is a thing so a long term contract turning into a permanent alliance doesn't seem any more farfetched than joining chaos.
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Since we are going full heresy here, I had this idea to put space pirates into my Rogue Trader game. The pirates are mostly Orks allied with humans (who paint their skin green and consider themselves Orks). Their leader is actually a human female with a green warpaint, but she and her crew call her "Warboss" nonetheless. They accept all races into their fleet, as long as they prove that they are orky enough (in practice, that you paint yourself green, that you can fight and you can speak like a British football hooligan). So they are kinda like Mandalorians. Except Orks.

Also, OP? Go for it.
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>>44641207
Jesus fucking christ stop spouting meme nonsense.

The Minotaurs aren't called in for a Chapter respecting human rights- a shitload of Chapters do that in the first place- the Minotaurs are only called in when a Chapter has officially gone renegade, like your sue Tau bullshit. No Chapter has ever been targeted for being nice to its own population, be it the Inquisition or the High Lords. Chapters are targeted when they decide to create a god damn Legion like the Astral Claws, or have gone full Chaos. But getting targeted is a hell of an achievement for a Chapter, as you have to SERIOUSLY piss off somebody like a very high ranking Inquisitor. The Marines Malevolent attacked a First Founding Chapter and even employed Chaos elements in their assault yet still haven't been destroyed by the Minotaurs.
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>>44641304
Huh. Been ages since I read Xenos. Might reread it. Are there any novels focusing on other xenos? Or what about novels about chaos forces, that are more "normal" like Blood Pact instead of loldemons?
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>>44640915
>you have brought your chapter to ruin
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>>44641313
>Their leader is actually a human female with a green warpaint
That wouldn't work. Orks instinctively consider every other greenskin smaller than them to be a groot. So unless she has some kind of primitive exoskeleton or a giant inflatable ork suit she wouldn't force orks into compliance.
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>>44640915
You know, this is so good, I give you my blessing.
Astartes who see for what the Imperium has become:
Retarded dark god empowering, self-destructive, blended baby showering and self anal powerfisting retards.
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>>44641313
Look up the Diggas, Digganob, or Gorkamorka. Humans that pretend that they are Orkz already exist and have existed in 40k for a long time.
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>>44641349
The Imperium is the Imperium because it's the only way humanity can survive. The Tau are deluded and naive because they don't have the faintest clue about the coming storm- plus WOG says the Tau are actually an example of a pure xenos civilization being corrupted into something just as bad as the Imperium.
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>>44641326
In case you haven't guessed yet, i'm not the guy proposing this chapter. Also, Ork Snipers is specifically referring to the Celestial Lions objecting - not even stopping it, just complaining - about the Inqusiiton using Exterminatus on a planet they felt was not corrupted. They literally got almost totally wiped out because they tried to file a complaint. It does not take a huge amount to get shit on from a great height by the Imperium.
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>>44640950
>Not even Chaos Space Marines would ally themselves with god damn Xenos as servants.

Lies.

Necrons mindshackled marines before.
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>>44641363
>imperfiumfag detected
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>>44641313
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>>44641371
and tyranids have marine mind-slaves

but they don't turn willingly
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>>44641347
It's not size itself that is important but fighting ability (which generally correlates with size in orks) if she's skilled enough too have beaten any opposition the rest will fall in line (for now)
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>>44640915
Nope. These guys are complete Mary Sues. They betrayed the Imperium, value learning and technology in a setting that would give them no reason to do so, or give them the science to understand it.

They became mercenaries because reasons are fled for the Tau (something that not even the most renegade of chapters would do) and became mercenaries (for reasons). They trade in XENOTECH (Jesus God) and play hard and fast with mixing human tech, xenos tech and DAOT tech, but don't fall to Chaos because... they really didn't want to? Keep in mind the Mechanicum tried progress and innovation once. All of those guys are now swimming around the eye of terror.

Awful. Try again.
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>>44641403
Then explain Farsight's marine companion .
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>>44641364
Yes, because they were a minor Chapter pissing off an extremely well connected Inquisitor.

If you've read Dan's books, you'd know that Inquisitors can have entire god damn sectors in their pockets. For all we know that guy either owned every assassin within 200 light years or was the arbiter of the Lord Inquisitor who owned every assassin within 200 light years.

Don't dick around with Inquisitors unless you kill them before they can squak like the First Legion.
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Why not just appropriate their tech instead? No joining, just looting
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>>44641379
JENCON
E
N
C
O
N
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>>44641374
Without the extreme oppression of the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition, everybody dies in a similar manner to the Eldar Empire. This is a bad thing for Xenos too when psykers start turning into hosts for Greater Daemons and warp storms start ripping open across imperial space with Daemonic crusades running rampant and killing everything.

40k is grimdark. There is no hope, and there is no good answer. There's just multiple degrees of "how fucked do you want to be?".
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>>44641432
>>44641379
Hnnnngg
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>>44641411
Size is important, it basicly says: 'i'm badass and you should listen to me". Even is fhe can beat bigass orks in combat for some reason she would be challenged for fight constantly be every single ork she would try to convince of anything.
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>>44641418
>but don't fall to Chaos because... they really didn't want to?
That's actually a valid reason in 40k and has happened before with renegade chapters.
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>>44640915
Sounds pretty good.
My chapter fell into a wormhole and fell into a forsaken Eldar temple, where they were out of the emperors reach, with limited resources.
After months of scavanging and resorting to canibalism, they ate too many psychers, getting noticed by the emperor, that oppened a wormhole for them to get back home. But on the way back, chaos forces and tau attacked them, getting they all sucked, right in the middle of the epic battle, at the same time, which made the SM absorb the powers and skill from both chaos and tao. On the other side of the portal, tao and chaos where dead, only SM stood. Stronger. Faster.
Like Sanguinus, they were diferentes now. They didnt need blood, just battle and glory...


Pretty cool, eh?
I always beat my adversaries in events. I litterally never lost a match with my chapter. No biggie.
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>>44641428
What is that, some Thunder Warrior prototype armor? It looks awfull.
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>>44641363
IMPERIUMFAG
M
P
E
R
I
U
M
F
A
G

I bet it's in his name when you jack off to Exterminatus, huh?
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>>44641452
>but don't fall to Chaos because... they really didn't want to?
Oh, right because Chaos always asks for your consent.
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>>44640915
hey OP, what a great idea, but why not make it better?:
>Chaos tau space marine genestealer hybrids !!

so edgy kewl !
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>>44641374
He is right though. The setting is on the brink of the End Times, and the only hope humanity has is with the Imperium, as grimdark a shithole as it is.

I'm a xenosfag and even I know this.
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>>44641454
Btw, my chapter is not afraid of using xeno tech. They arent pussies who are too chicken to get that extra edge that puts them ahead of foes and friends alike.
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>>44641476
>>44641363
>samefaging this hard
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>>44641475
Why not?
The emperor would be OK with that, if it brought chaos down and serve mankind.
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>>44641424
Exactly. A humanitarian-minded minor chapter could end up suffering from mysteriously poor intelligence, get their shit wrecked, and realise what's going on. Celestial Lions only survived because the Black Templars helped them out and have their backs now in case the Inquisition decides to finish the job. A chapter who didn't get lucky like that might find that it's either incredibly dogged Ork Snipers, Space Pirates and straight-up fabricated claims of Heresy (or just tell the Dark Angels they're housing a Fallen), or going Renegade.
After that, it's down to where their shitty luck takes them. Enough time working with Tau-aligned humans could end with them siding with them. Not 'man shit sucks, let's go join the Tau!' but a gradual shift. Also, probably not 'tell us what to do ethereal-sempai' unless they start recruiting from said Tau-aligned worlds but the same situation they have with the Imperium normally where they're half-independent, half-working for them.
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>>44641475
Are they also kitsunes?
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>>44641469
It doesn't. But willpower and desire has always been hugely important in regards to chaos in 40ks fluff. Resisting chaos is literally just not wanting to hard enough.
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>>44641452
If you went renegade, started using forbidden tech, xenos tech and tried innovation again, you are setting a very definite course for yourself.

No amount of "they are totally pure though!" will save you.
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>>44641464
Again, without necessary cruelty, literally everybody dies horribly to daemons and gets to have their soul raped forever.

The only bad thing the Imperium does that isn't a necessary evil is fighting the Eldar, because Humanity and Eldar need to get over their massive cuntish arrogance and realize they're the only hope each other's got.
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>>44641501
And understanding what you are even signing for. When you go renegade you are stepping on a thin ice.
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>>44641485
>Being this bad at forming an argument that you have to fall back on accusations of samefagging.
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>>44641475

Genestealer chaos cults were canon, if I remember correctly.
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>>44641485
Fuck off shitposter.
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>>44641253
Enslavers
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>>44641522
>>44641527
FRATER!
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>>44641522
>not trolling a little with trigger tabs

Could've had some fun anon
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>>44641505
But it will. There's even a renegade chapter (the relictors) whos thing is using chaos artifacts to fight chaos.
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>>44641536
My fellow Blood Angel.
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>>44641526
Chaos orks and half-elf space marines were canon at one point too.
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>>44641454
The Emperor cant do that on his currently state.
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>>44641546
Dude, the Relictors are the worst example you could have picked. They were declared excommunicate traitoris after attacking Imperial forces for more Chaos relics.

They are actually the perfect example of why your idea doesn't work.
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>>44641461
That would be Dornian Heresy Ultramarine armor. How do you not know this?
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>>44641560
But he did, because their faith was true and they ate psychers.
Suck it.

>>44641526
Why it wouldnt be cânon anymore?
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>>44641550
>Not my fellow of Baalian descent
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>>44641506
I wish they did, but that would be

HERESY!
E
R
E
S
Y
!

Just shoot a blackhole big enough to collide with the milkyway core and end the suffering.
:^).
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>>44641576
>but he did
Says who other than your chapters lore?
Did you say that in events that you said you went? It doesnt matter if you win any match, it doesnt make your bullshit true!
The emperor is a vagetable, he cant open wormhole like that and this is a fact that even the most casual player would know.
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>>44641576
Not a nid fan but I recall that the Hivemind nullifies the warp or something
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>>44641551

And there was nothing wrong with that.
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>>44641596
Maybe he knows that my chapter has true faith on him.
You are clearly talking herotic bullshit.
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>>44641574
>How do you not know this?
I'm not into fanfics?
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>>44641586
I'm using that.
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>>44641598
Bummer
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>>44641574
I actually really liked the Dornian heresy. The Ultramarines were one of my favourite parts. It was well done imo.
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>>44640997
they are meant to hate xenos or the inquisition gets all angsty but realistically the chapter can raise the marine kiddies the way they want and disregard codex astartes if needs be
if the command structure are obsessed with xenos tech and improved tech i don't think they would feel the need to be hatin on xenos so much
there are plenty of inquisitors who had dealings with eldar and tau and such (think of gideon)
im not sure if i agree to sm being the tau bicthes im sure they would consider themselves equals and it doesnt make sense to be collected all sorts of tech from eldar, dark ages and shit cos its hard enough doing that never mind when you are trying to get along with tau and are busy jacking off to all their sweet lasers
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>>44641506
yes
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>>44641454
Wewlad this is some top tier Mary Sue-ing.
I don't know where to start there's so much wrong with it.
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>>44641644
Dammit ND.
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>>44640915
I like the paint scheme, go for it. It's your game to enjoy as much as the next guys.
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>>44641568
Why is that a bad example. They're going as far as using chaos tools but haven't fallen too worshiping it. Sure they've attacked the imperium. But they are renegades after all.
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>>44641454
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>>44641644
Would missionary position both.
Maybe I should jack off for now.
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>>44640915
Dude, the ordo Xeno's would be on their asses so fast the administratum would only find out that there were ever marines that alligned with the foul xeno belief 200 years later. and the records would be under inquisitorial seal.

TLDR version : fuck no, its heresy. its like your vacume cleaner forming a bond with the god damn dust its supposed to get rid of.
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>>44641700
They basically have. The Relictors are basically Chaos Space Marines who haven't admitted it to themselves yet.

Their latest exploits involve being manipulated by Bel'akor into slaughtering an entire Imperial cruiser for the vague possibly of a Chaos relic.

They are fucked. I don't know how anybody couldn't grasp this. They are a cautionary tale.
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>>44641701
Bet YOUR shitty chapter would've lost faith and died.
Fuck, best case scenario they become heretical chaos faggots.
Cry some more, Horus faggots.
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>>44641723
I disagree, I think that if his chapter is strong enough they can pull it, maybe even pull some Sanguinus tier bullshit, by not letting other chapters know what they are doing.
There is nothing heretical about fulfilling the God Emperor wishes.
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>>44641662
How can he go to events with such story?
How?!?
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>>44641294
>and the decision was made to recruit from the local Tau-cultured human populations...
This is actually how you could almost justify them mostly continually actively working for the tau.

If all they can get are tau indoctrinated recruits, over time, these tau believing humans will become the majority. Hell, maybe they then purge the "suffer not the xeno" old guard or just wait them out.
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>>44641789
Anon, lurk moar, that is clearly the best player this board has to offer:
Virt.
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>>44641790
I think that waiting out the previous astartes AND proving them that it can truly work is the best way to sway other chapters away from the imperium without LOL CHAOSVAULTDRAGONDILDOEZing them hard AND still serve humankind, in a better environment.
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>>44641723
As if marines aren't the second highest risk group for falling to chaos in the entire fucking inperium.
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Can we take a moment to appreciate the op image and its demonstration of everything wrong with NMM?
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>>44641343
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>>44640915
I hope all that Xenotech was worth it, because even if the High Lords of Terra didn't order a crusade specifically to wipe them out the moment they heard about this, I'd be amazed if every chapter in the area didn't organise their own crusade to deal with this. I mean, can you image how dangerous it would be for them if the Tau started looking at gene-seeds.
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>>44640915
This is heresy even by chaos standards.
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>>44641253
The Tau have about a dozen client species, Kroot and Vespids are just the only ones that have made it to the tabletop. There's some Lizard people who joined up because the Imperium virus bombed them, some flat polar bear psyker things, some apparently good brain worms?
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>>44640915
Where'd they get the knowledge to reverse engineer so much technology together so quickly while under persecution from the Imperium at large? If you're not a Salamander or a Tech Priest, many of which would be just as pissed about the Tech-Heresy as the actual Mechanicum, Space Marines only know how to upkeep their arms and armor, not make completely new ones.
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Since OP idea isn't grimdark enough for /tg/, what about this (as a first draft):
> Chapter go rogue because muh hubris (like pre chaos Astral Claws)
> End up being declared traitors, but who need Terra anyway?
> Devolve into pirates, it's good to be free isn't it?
> Part of the chapter start dipping into chaos shit, but it can't be THAT bad, right?
> It's actually not that bad, it's just so much worse. Sane part of the chapter is horrified and flee. They realise they must go back to the Imperium to save their souls.
> Can't go back.
> Their hubris broken, they don't believe they can be saved by self discipline since they don't trust themselves, so they seek a new master.
> They happen to find tau (could also work with Eldar, maybe better actually).
So they don't join tau/eldar because muh progress but because they are terrified of what they could become. They aren't champions of progress but penitents that believe they aren't even good enough to die for the emperor.

And if you really want to hammer down the grimdark, they are perfect tools for their new masters who play on their insecurities to puppet them. Though I would prefer tau to genuinely wanting to integrate them because ideology, I could see them being tools of some "radical" ethereal.
They are hated by the Imperium, tormented by their fallen brothers, and may even not be totally trusted by their new allies.

Grimdark enough, or must I kick a few puppies?
>>
>>44642862
It's not about lack of grimdark it's about the idea being fucking retarded it's like making Ork clan dedicated to Tzeentch
>>
>>44642898
I could actually see that happening. A clan of rapidly mutating Orks. I would be OK with this.
>>
>>44640915
>Is this a good idea for a chapter ?
Nnnaaaaaaaaaaaah.

>My idea is that they are a chapter that values learning and technological advancement which made them come to blows with the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Tau are not any more advanced than Imperium at large, and definitely lagging behind the Cult Mechanicus. They are just flashier.

But the thing is - if they were actually interested in technological advancement unfettered by any morality, ethics or loyalty otherwise Imperium is their best bet - they'd be more interested in Dark Mechanicus or rogue study of Necrons as the embodiment of technology unbound. The only thing that makes Tau relevant in the question is "We have a lot of cool cyberpunk lights on our mecha and our plasma doesn't blow up in your face"

>>44641041
Chaos is another matter entirely - marine falls to the Ruinous Powers as he starts believing that they indeed hold the ultimate Truth for mankind, gets corrupted by the fouler elements of his own humanity (pride, greed, wrath etc) or descends into extreme nihilism out of desensitization. It's the result of a (transcended) Human looking into a mirror and not being able to take his own gaze for long enough to be eventually saved by glorious death. How in the name of FUCK do alien savages come into all of this? What can hooved offer to a brotherhood of immortal warriors?

>>44641454
I just threw up in my ass a little.
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>>44640915
>fight the Imperium for xenos
I don't like CSM but even they are better than these assholes.
>>
>>44640915
Sure. It makes plenty of sense. It's a big galaxy our there, and marines go renegade fairly often.

Most of them usually get killed due to a lack of support, but it's entirely possible some of them would swallow their pride and work as mercenaries for the Tau in order to protect themselves from the Imperium.

I actually had a similar idea for them myself back in 6e when they were Battle Brothers, though I never did much with it.

Of course, expect them to be hated be everyone, even moreso than the ordinary traitor guardsman that work for the Tau.
>>
Why not make them independent guardians of a particular human world within the Tau Empire? They don't need to hold loyalty towards the Tau Empire, only towards their fellow Gue'vesa.
>>
>>44643642
>They don't need to hold loyalty towards the Tau Empire, only towards their fellow Gue'vesa.
That doesn't make sense. Gue'vesa are human soldiers in the Tau Empire, being loyal to them is being loyal to the Tau.
>>
>>44643642
Gue'vesa are Tau.

It's like being loyal to artillery gunners but not to the army.
>>
>>44642898
>A clan with lots of Kommandos
>Big Mek in charge of the force, one day he comes up with a brutally cunning battle plan
>All the Kommandos thinks the plan is dumb, so when the battle rolls around, they all do their own thing
>Whenever they win, the Big Mek claims he knew they would do that and it was his plan all along.
>The Kommandos buy it, make Big Mek in charge of all future battle plans

I think it could work. Chaos Orks in general tend to be fairly similar to regular Orks, but more organized.
>>
>>44643667

You can always play with loyalties. It's not like the Chapters only pay lip service to large sections of the Imperium's state with many even refusing the State Religion.
>>
>>44642488
One of my favourite pieces of fluff in 40k is about the Golden Embassador, a Water Caste Tau that brought three races into the Empire (Thraxians, Greet and Formosians). It's nice hearing about some major characters that don't do fighting, at least in other races.
>>
>>44641096
>Chaos doesn't consort with Xenos
Have you ever heard of Chaos Xenos, good sir?
>>
>>44643667
I could see it as more of them wanting to protect any human civilians in spite of them being under Tau rule.
>>
>>44643761
This actual picture got paired up with a story of a SM and a human ambassador visiting a tau world. There was a traitor SM there, and he was not the only one.
>>
that marine looks pretty cool, op
>>
>>44641313
Obligatory "stop instering your fetish in the game" post

just no
>>
Make them into Space Switzerland.

>Independent planet within the Tau Empire.
>Population barely loyal to the Tau Empire or the Imperium.
>Homeworld of a Renegade Space Marine Chapter.
>Sell its services to the Tau.
>Space Marines guaranties its independence in exchange of technology and acting as mercenaries.

It's not like the Tau Empire has never dealt with mercenaries or other xenos that are only in it for the money.
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>>44643928
It does. Pity about the rest of the faggotry.
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>>44644089

We are Fezzan now.
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>>44640915
Embrace your spiritual liege you fucking heretic!?!
>>
>>44640915
I hope to god that you're trolling but if you're not:
No. That's a fucking terrible idea. ignoring the sheer amount of heresy your entire basis is wrong: The Tau don't have the best technology. The Imperium, in the Dark Age of Technology, make the Tau look like neanderthals with pointy rocks. I know it's considered the cool thing to go "Hurrr, look how dumb dumb the humans are" but the Imperium MADE the fucking space marines. They made gravity based weapons. The emperor has a psychic amplifier that projects his soul across the entire galaxy through Hell. The Blackstone Fortresses can destroy stars. The reason the AdMech are so focused on regaining lost tech rather than making new shit is because their new shit would never compete. Why design and build a crossbow when there are god damned harrier jump jets just waiting to be excavated out there?

I swear the Tau are the worst thing to happen to 40K if only because it attracts this sort of shit.
>>
>>44645861

>Blackstone Fortresses

Older than Mankind.

>Space Marines

Stolen from Chaos.
>>
>>44643819
Why would they want to protect humans that forsook the Emperors Imperium to serve the Tau?
>>
>>44644089
>Rightfully Imperial World
>Betrays them and helps out xenos
>Not actually being protected by said xenos

>Rogue Space Marines
>Homeworld

I don't see how that wouldn't get them crusaded to death.
>>
>>44645989

Nova Terra Interregnum.
>>
>>44645919
>Stolen from Chaos.
The genetic engineering behind them was predominately from the Thunder Warriors. Using the powers of the Warp to create the Primarches was less "stoln from Chaos" and more "Used the Warp and then Chaos started squealing that it wasn't fair that somebody else was using the energy that they failed to pretect"

I'll give you the fortresses, not sure how I got them muddled up in my mind.

Luckily to replace them on the list: Machines so true to life that their lack of a living soul corrupted them. In a setting where machine sprits and souls are proven facts mankind created as close to life as was possible without being the Old Ones. Tau just got a kickstart courtesy of the Eldar unless they've finally gone and retconned that Xenos sourcebook.
>>
>>44646060
>Nova Terra Interregnum.

Is an event that has nothing to do with xenos and was a completely internal affair. It also involved Dark Angels killing lots of traitors, so I don't even know what the fuck you're trying to get at.
>>
>>44646121

That the Imperium has been split into more than one before. Likely is going to happen again as a legion of threats (Tyranids, Orks, Chaos, Necron Dynasties) isolate whole sectors. The Imperium can't even afford a single Titan Legion vs the Tau anymore.
>>
>>44646188
One Chapter helping one planet sort of allied to the Tau is not comparable to an entire Segmentum rebelling in any way. It's a minor treason the Inquisition will be more than happy to blow out of the water. You don't need a Titan Legion to take one world from a Minor Chapter.
>>
>>44641096
>Chaos doesn't consort with Xenos

Nope
>>
>>44646052
Because the last two went so well, right?
>>
>>44640915
would never happen

it works in reverse though, ultrimarines have sanctioned tau xeno mercenaries before. but they were used as cannon fodder rather than battle buddies.
>>
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>>44641313
It's not too strange an idea - Blood Axes learn from and would work as mercenaries for humies, and might be amused by a race trying to learn how to fight proper Orky. A shared genestealer cult connection would work even better. I actually approve of it just as something that's new and different, and would be a fun way to catch players on the off foot since they don't see it coming.

She better be in some sort of mech suit, though. Or have loads of dakka. Or at least just be considered a second fiddle to the real Ork warboss, and has to prove herself constantly time and time again to get listened to - or maybe provides some tech or something that the warboss can't ignore.

As for the Space Marine Tau thing, how about a group of relatively young and impressionable Space Marines serving under an Ordo Xenos inquisitor gone radical learn a bit too much about the Greater Good and Tau tech? They don't like them, but they respect the tools of their trade and their relative unity compared to some political jockying in the Imperium. When the Inquisitor is declared a traitor, their loyalty is more to him than their old chapter, and they run with him to Tau space. They find a place to set up shop - an asteroid belt, a moon - and start raiding for Tau tech to use to improve their own, until the Tau manage to work out some sort of uneasy peace.
>>
>>44641779

Strong. lol.

The Deathwatch would be hunting them. You know? The elite marines sent from each chapter to fight xenos? Number somewhere over a couple thousand?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Grey Knights got involved just because such a defection would be unprecedented to a degree they thought it might be a daemon fucking with the chapter.
>>
>>44649432
Now now, the Deathwatch ends up getting spread across the galaxy as squads - its hard to muster even a single company's worth to a campaign. And the Grey Knights have to deal with daemonic stuff more than heretical stuff.

The chapter they'd send in would be the Red Hunters - the other chapter that's buddy buddy with the Inquisition.
>>
>>44641253
Many are humanoid, many aren't.

Off the top of my head:
>Humanoid
Enollians
Tarellians
Eldar
Kroot
Tau
Orks
Necron
Demiurg

>Non-humanoid
Vespid
Yu'vath
Halo Artefacts
Rak'gol
Stryxis
Slaught
Nicassar
Enslavers
>>
>>44651027
Aren't Enslavers warp creatures?
>>
>>44651216
Sort of.

They need to breed in reality. Its like turtles living for centuries in the sea but never quite managing to cut ties with the land entirely.

They were created by the Old Ones to be a species highly attuned to the warp because it was the best weapon against the C'tan and Necrons. It backfired horrifically.

But they are still a mortal flesh and blood creature just about.
>>
>>44640950
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Gehenna_Campaign
>>
>>44640915

Well, it's not like chapters haven't gone non-chaos renegade before. (The Badab War, anyone?)

I could see a chapter that rebelled (or perhaps was declared heretical for some reason, like usage and exploration of xeno tech) fleeing Imperial space. While they may not actively JOIN the Tau, they might certainly make deals to get their hands on the xeno tech...particularly genetic/cloning tech to help with geneseed management.

If this is planned for tabletop fluff, your main problem will be agreeing to an appropriate point cost for the spiffy xeno gear they'd be using. Some of the Horus Heresy stuff might help there (Volkite weapons are fairly similar to pulse guns, for instance).

Of course, the Imperium hates nothing as much as it hates traitors and heretics, so I would imagine the Minotaur chapter might be called in to wipe them out...
>>
>>44642318
That would bring the Tau from the bottom of the High lords shit list right up to third.
>>
>>44652169
Who's the first two?

Chaos and Tyranids or Chaos and Orks?
>>
>>44640915
Sit in the corner. Think about what you've done.
>>
>>44652383
I would say Chaos and Tyranids as the most present threat with the Necrons and the Orcs if they unify under Ghazzy not much below them.
>>
>>44652093

Water Caste Negotatior: Welcome, Chapter Master. It is a shame the Imperium doesn't appreciate your forward thinking and ideas. 'm sure we have a place in the Greater Good for you...

Chapter Master: Yeah, not interested. Thanks though. What we ARE interested in is some of your technology.

WCN: What would you have to trade for these technologies?

CM: Well, we're good at killing stuff.

WCN: As it happens, we're having troubles with some orks on the spinward front.

CM: Awesome, we're great at killing orks. How about genetics tech?

WCN: Not our forte, but we could help you in that regard, for appropriate work.

CM: Like?

WCN: As the Imperium is now your enemy, the Damocles campaigns...

CM: No. We may be renegades, but we aren't traitors. Human pirates, scavengers, maybe Rogue Traders, but we won't fight the Imperium for you.

WCN: Speaking of pirates, there is an enclave of Eldar Corsairs nearby.

CM: Perfect. Pleasure doing business with you.
>>
>>44652711
You write the Water Caste very well.
>>
>>44640915
This is why tau fags are universally regarded as cancer
>>
>>44640950
what part of renegade do you not get
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>>44640915
The mechanicus Isent auctualy against progress they just research very slowly because they have to make sure there designs aren't tainted by chaos
>>
Seriously, fuck the Tau and the faggots who play them.
>>
>>44653148
Also, they're against progress.

Most of them don't realize why they have to go so slow, they just know that the Omnissiah abhors progress.
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>>44643921
there was a traitor guardsman but no traitor marines
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>>44653321
I thought that they believe that the omnisiah would abandon them, unless they recover all the STC and only then would the omnisiah permit them to research new designs.
>>
>>44652093
>Well, it's not like chapters haven't gone non-chaos renegade before. (The Badab War, anyone?)

IIRC, the survivors of the Badab War became the Red Corsairs, who are now Chaos pirates.
>>
It's a shit idea. Marines almost exclusively go renegade because they want power and freedom. Only certain Tau tech is actually better and they would have to switch everything to Tau tech, including the shit replacements. Switching to the Greater Good would also demote them from demi gods to second class soldiers in almost all but name. And restrict them to a small area of space, fighting for a cause that doesn't aline with their wishes and probably also looks down on their style of warfare. They would be switching the Imperial leash for Tau shackles and gain nothing for it.
There is also the fact that Marines hate Xenos. Even short term alliances don't sit well with them, despite knowing it's in their and the Imperiums best interest at the moment in this situation. Even Fallen Marines, the ones who have sold their soul to Chaos, work alongside Daemons and betrayed their own race and everything Marines stand for despise Xenos, at best viewing them as completely disposable cannon fodder.
>>
>>44654183
Several of the renegade chapters got issued punishments like crusades and stuff but are back in the imperium's good graces now.

The Executioners are one example.
>>
>>44640944
>B-But muh Weak crusades.

Second Damocles Crusade ended in a stalemate after the Admech needed to bail out the Imperium with a superweapon.

Stop talking shit.
>>
>>44641313
So a Diggaboss then?
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>>44646099
>That Xenos Sourcebook

Nigga that had Tau with HUMAN FEET.
>>
>>44649149
>A shared genestealer cult connection would work even better
stop ripping off redemption corps and making it shitter just to force a green girl
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>>44652093
>Of course, the Imperium hates nothing as much as it hates traitors and heretics
A Heretic may see the truth and seek redemption. He may be forgiven his past and will be absolved in death. A Traitor can never be forgiven. A Traitor will never find peace in this world or the next. There is nothing as wretched or as hated in all the world as a Traitor.
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>>44651027
Vespids are bug people but they're still pretty humanoid. There's room for a redesign since it's not like they have (or ever had) much of a presence, though I doubt GW would care enough.

>>44651662
In Oldcron lore, Enslavers were among the creatures born in the warp from the emotions and souls of those races fighting the Necrons - and they most certainly weren't created deliberately. Other sources, going back to Rogue Trader, leave their origin a mystery but don't say anything about them needing to enter realspace to breed either.
>>
>>44641313
It could work. Orks do weird things like this all the time. As long as she's tough and orky, they'll follow her anywhere.
Being bigger would help, like using some sort of mech suit, but she doesn't HAVE to be. She could be some unsanctioned psyker who uses biomancy to make herself tough enough to face orks.
It's 40k, anything is possible, even your fetishes!
>>
>>44640915
>Is this a good idea for a chapter ?
no
>>
>>44640915
If you think it'll be a fun idea for a chapter it's always a good idea.
>>
>>44652711
I don't think they'd want the Marines to fight in the Damocles gulf. They tend to send Imperial Guard to fight on the other side of the empire so they don't have to worry about killing their former allies. It'd be an even better idea to do so if they wanted to try and keep the marines a secret.
>>
>>44656028
They did stuff with an Ork genestealer cult? I didn't know.

Only other thing I could think of is in the Unforgiven series where humans raised Orks as part of their cult, and that seemed rather weak, and the series has come to disgust me.
>>
>>44640915
Like... Communist Marines ?
No.
>>
>>44657496
That actually sounds very grimdark.
>>
>>44658543
>the power should be in the hands of the people
>would encourage revolutions
>force industrialization in areas without the means for it
>more than likely turn into an oligarchy or dictatorship
>>
>All these 'No, never ever' answers

Do people really hate the idea of Space Marines doing something heretical that much, or is this just a Tau-related thing?
>>
>>44640998
>>44641723
>>44642318
>>44642399
>>44642755

Any idea on how to make this work better fluff wise ?
the base idea is them going full Tech-Heresy reverse engineering all tech they find with a deep hunger for knowledge, being at least a little xeno tolerant so they can make deals with them and attempt trade.
maybe a better idea is them having a secret Dark Age bunker base in Tau space with a super weapon where they are completly autonomous and attempt to research and study as much they can without the prying eyes of the Mechanicum.
They could act as merceneries only when they really need something, for example: recruits (since recruiting from Imperium space is no longer safe), knowledge, or items and materials.
>>
>>44640915
This is extra heretical. In every possibly way.
But really, loyal space marines? Valuing knowledge and advancement? Do you know how into 40k? First off, Astartes do not turn tail and flee if the AdMech gets upset, especially not to the 'safety' of xenos (read: enemy) territory. Not to mention the Tau would most likely try to kill them upon first contact because, come the fuck on, those guys are dicks! And the whole 'mercenries fer aleens' thing is dumb because the space marines would DEFINITELY try to kill any Tau they encountered. For da empruh, 'n' whatnot. This is warhammer, people don't just flop allegiances without SOME internal resistance and brutal consequences.

Tl;dr nothing about that makes ANY sense but that mini looks awesome so roll with helmets as trophies and shiny armour as intimidation tactics or something, that's what the kids are up to nowadays right?
>>
>>44640915
>Is this a good idea for a chapter ?
Yes

Don't listen to the morons, SMs consort with xenos all the fucking time, and if the consorting works they could easily become on good terms.

The Imperium would declare them Traitors, but considering they had to burn space to contain the Tau, they aren't going to worry too much about yet another chapter falling to heresy.
>>
>>44641096
You seem to have forgotten that not everything in 40k is identical. For one, only a few Space Marines actually rule their own planets, most are more like trade pacts and defensive alliances than actual sovereignty.

Secondly, hatred for the Heretics is exactly as ingrained as hatred for the Xenos, and yet chapters fall to Chaos all the damn time.
>>
>>44641731
>The Relictors are basically Chaos Space Marines who haven't admitted it to themselves yet.
Except they have none of the tenets of CSMs, so no they aren't.
>>
>>44642318
>I hope all that Xenotech was worth it, because even if the High Lords of Terra didn't order a crusade specifically to wipe them out the moment they heard about this, I'd be amazed if every chapter in the area didn't organise their own crusade to deal with this. I mean, can you image how dangerous it would be for them if the Tau started looking at gene-seeds.
You're fucking retarded, m88. High Lords are dealing with Leviathan, every chapter in their area is dealing with the remnants of Behemoth, as well as the awakening Necrons. It's not like the Imperium isn't already fighting for it's very survival, so a single chapter falling to heresy will never warrant a full Crusade, unless they protect something very important like the Maelstrom
>>
>>44640915
That's an awful idea
>>
>>44646266
>One Chapter helping one planet sort of allied to the Tau is not comparable to an entire Segmentum rebelling in any way. It's a minor treason the Inquisition will be more than happy to blow out of the water. You don't need a Titan Legion to take one world from a Minor Chapter.
Well you would if it was on the other end of Tau Space...

...Of course, that's where all the Tyranids are coming at them from as well...

>>44661748
>Do people really hate the idea of Space Marines doing something heretical that much, or is this just a Tau-related thing?
Mostly they take the whole thing too seriously, so things like Tau Marines or Loyalist Chaos Marines set off their REEEEE-flex.

>>44662045
>The Imperium would declare them Traitors, but considering they had to burn space to contain the Tau, they aren't going to worry too much about yet another chapter falling to heresy.
EXACTLY, the fact that the Tau provide a buffer from the Imperium's wrath would probably be enough to be on friendly terms with them.
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One your all sperging out over a question. two, since when has 40k ever been a fully consistent universe, there are shit it books that contradict shit in other books, that contradict shit in other books.

Grey knights cant fall to chaos, but one maybe did, and one began to doubt the Imperium after watching a full scale slaughter on evacuees.

Shit like this happens all the fucking time, so what if a single unimportant chapter starts working with tau? stranger shit has happened, like chaos tau, or chaos eldar, or chaos orks, or chaos gene stealer cults.

And no the imperium wont suddenly commit more shit to killing the tau, they have to much shit on their plate and just lost their last huge force full of expensive shit to the tau without making any lasting damage to them.

Will other local chapters be pissed at them sure, if they even know who these fucks are since info gets lost all the fucking time in 40k, chapters go dark and re appear all the fucking time.

The marines themselves dont have any fucking assets that would bring an shitstorm on them anyway, Geneseed? the Tau already have that shit from space marine bodys, Codex? they already have that shit and distribute it to their commanders, Arms and Armor? they already gleamed what they could and have their own alternatives
>>
>>44641790

Marines would literally rather go extinct than resort to those measures to stay alive. OP asked if it was a "good idea". Anyone with half a brain knows it's one of the shittiest ideas possible, even shittier than female marines.

But he can do whatever he wants. Just because something is a terrible, horrible idea that fills every non-retarded person with hatred doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
>>
>>44662614
>since when has 40k ever been a fully consistent universe

Since always, moron. There's always an Emperor. Space Marines are always male. Etc etc.

I hate you faggots who spam "hurr it's a big galaxy anything could happen" "40k doesn't have a canon" "40k is so inconsistent lol do whatever you want"

Want some consistency? There are ZERO FUCKING OFFICIAL CHAPTERS like what OP wants to do. ZERO. Out of the HUNDREDS we know of.
>>
>>44662614
>calls people sperg
>spergs out in defense of shitty autistic ideas

Fucking L.O.L.

Remember, it's always better to be Comic Book Guy if the alternative is Milhouse.
>>
>>44640915
Coherent, consistent with the setting, relatively well thought, not op, I'd allow it.

A lot of people are sperging because it has never been done before, but that is kind of the point of an OC. A lot of people are autistic like that and aren't able to think. They generally are underage, in the 16-18 year old mark.
>>
>>44662652
>A lot of people are sperging because it has never been done before, but that is kind of the point of an OC. A lot of people are autistic like that and aren't able to think.
See:
>>44662619
>>44662628
>>44662638
>>
>>44640915
Space marines of either loyalist or traitor ilk all abhor the xeno. This is universal. Xenos are lesser beings. Being subservient to lesser beings is not something that'd sit will with marines, of either conviction.

This is mary sure of outmost extreme, and its lore conflictant on so many levels. Its not good.
>>
>>44662628
Let me play devils advocate here, What if GW made a clan that infact did work with Xeno, what then?

Will you quit the hobby?

Will you shrug and move on?

Will you shit post uselessly on /tg/?

Also if the Imperium hates xenos to the point of a frothing rage, why are they making deals with the Deldar concerning the emporer?, why do they Hire Kroot mercs on fairly regular occasions? why do they hire orks every now and again as mercs? Why do planetary governors fall to xenos or work with xenos all the time? Why would the Marines or Guard ever work with tau or eldar rather than saying fuck it and killing them too?
>>
>>44640915
Admit it, you just want a reason to combine free razorbacks and unpainted riptides
>>
>>44662638
>lol

Quit shitposting anon.
>>
>>44661863
Any thoughts ?
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>>44662768
>I'll play devils advocate
and I'll just ignore that

>Also if etc
The imperium isn't incapable of working with xenos. A real world example would be Nazi germany wasn't incapable of working with Imperial Japan, even though we know what they would have thought of them.

But factions of the SS didn't join Imperial Japan and become subservient to them.
>>
>>44655854
How many troops were deployed? The Siege of Vraks alone resulted in 14 million Guardsmen, hundreds of space marines, and nine titans lost for a single planet.
>>
>>44661863
Ignore the Tau, they are the least advanced faction in the setting, it is simply that most Orks, Tyranids, and Imperials are armed with shitty weapons. Just have them be a chapter that is obsessed with technology to the point of full heresy sitting in bumfuck nowhere (like the eastern fringes) or protected by a warp storm. Maybe they raid and trade with Necrons, Eldar, and Dark Eldar for technology in addition to working alongside the Dark Mechanicus and certain radical inquisitors to develop their own technology.

But allying with the Tau or even fighting against the Imperium alongside the Tau pretty much means the whole Tau Empire will be exterminated by whatever means necessary.
>>
>>44662823
I dont know the full values, but there were a shit load of cassualtys, The knight familys had their greatest amount of losses since the heresy I believe, If I recall they also haven't lost so many baneblades since the battle of terra or something like that.

Over all its not the russes or basic guard numbers that matter, but the number of Marines, super heavys, and titans that matter, and they lost lots of all of those.

Some big notable deaths were the Raven Guard chapter master, and 3 of the 4 assassins that were sent to kill the tau leaders, only the culex survived if I recall
>>
>>44662614
>since when has 40k ever been a fully consistent universe
The major foundation of 40k lore is that it's entirely speculative. There is no One Big Book Of True Things That Really Happened In-Universe - there are only (imperfect and politicized) records, hundred times revised history, mountains of propaganda, false gods and spinners of lies. And you kinda have to figure it out from what you have, which leads to 100 anons having 1000 ideas of how the galaxy is, who are all not entirely right but most are also not entirely wrong.

Which is awesome and immersive.
>>
>>44662614
> there are shit books

Fine, this adds to the wealth of shit, by being a shit proposition
>>
>>44662823

At least 100 marines died during the first phase.
>>
>>44662942
Just because they may be bad, doesn't mean they arent part of the universe. Starwars fans cant ignore the prequels, Comic fans cant ignore parts done by shit writers, Berserk fans cant ignore the boat, Gundam fans cant ignore seed, and you cant ignore the bad books or codexs because you dont like them.
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>>44663042
This is a bad fan creation. It can be ignored.

OP may do whatever the fuck he wants. And he asked for feedback on his idea. The feedback is that it's bad. He needs to grow thicker skin.
>>
>>44662823

It mentions billions of soldiers + support material.
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>>44663042
> and you cant ignore the bad books or codexs because you dont like them
Actually we can. As per >>44662920 and the fact that Galaxy is XBAWKS HUEG, we can essentially ignore the parts of canon we don't like. Unlike say SW, HP or Trek, there are no single personas or events that the entire 40k continuity spins entirely around. Not even the God Emperor. There are thousands of worlds in the Galaxy that never even heard of the Great Crusade or Horus Heresy.
>>
https://youtu.be/6-9XSiNfgk0

10:53 is the crucial bit
>>
OP wants Mary Sue reasonable marines and is therefore a total faggot

We can all go home now
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>>44662809
But Nazi's did seek shelter in Argentina, and it's not like they'd have considered latino people to be any less subhuman compared to Aryan's.

It's not a stretch to conclude that many, if not most, will compromise or disregard their principles if it means survival.
>>
>>44663068
And that makes it your headcanon. OP can play his Mary Sue and lore breaking Marines all he wants. But it's a retarded idea.

>>44663176
But if it was about survival and technology seeking, it would be more sense to go to Dark Eldar or Necrons. Then Chaos. Tau are Ork tech tier, some is better than Imperium, most of it is shittier. And Tau are the weakest faction, so why seek help with them.
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>>44663226
>And that makes it your headcanon. OP can play his Mary Sue and lore breaking Marines all he wants. But it's a retarded idea.
I agree that OP's idea is retarded. The thing is - in 40k headcanon is the ONLY canon besides the stat numbers for tabletop.
>>
>>44661863
TL;DR
>See: Reasonable Marines on 1d4chan

You only have an option of a renegade chapter that reverse engineered Tau tech and starts fielding it instead of their own weaponry. It makes for an interesting set of model conversions and that's about it.

>Fluff-wise, you gonna get raped.
Making up a story like this can not be plausible. Sure Astartes and many other Imperial loyal persons and factions have worked openly with Xenos before, but Astartes working FOR Tau, can not feasibly work.

By doctrine, Montka and Kauyon are dramatically inferior to the Codex (And not just because Our Spiritual Liege would say so.). Consider this like comparing an omnibus containing dozens of millennia of human war doctrine from Sun Tzu to Caeser, World War 2 through the Horus Heresy and beyond. (Whiling still being updated even as we speak...) to the lessons I got taught when I went hunting for the first time.
Tau battle doctrine, while elegant in it's simplicity, is inferior to the collective works of the Codex. Even non-Codex subscribing chapters recognize it for how useful it can be.

By chain of command and authority, you would be seeing a Chapter Master and his Battle Brothers, as close as you can get to either a Primarch or Big E himself, take orders and obey anyone who is not their blood superior. It can not allow for a suspension of disbelief for anyone who knows lore.

I have a self-made Chapter that is basically a Reasonable Marines ripoff who will at least talk with their enemies before killing them off with extreme prejudice. Yes they have worked alongside Tau a few times and Crafworld Eldar more than quite a bit, but when confronted by either who would try to undermine, dominate, conscript, alter, convert or any other thing you can think of, the instigator swiftly met a brutal retort and a final warning that if continued they will find their insides as outsides, to die while enduring that pain at their feet. This is the furthest extent Astartes can get.
>>
>>44661863
Honestly I can't see Space Marines working for Xenos even if they are particularly tolerant (a very rare trait in the Imperium), but I can see something like a relatively young chapter just stealing some Xenos tech and trying to incorporate it into their own armoury. This could probably be justified by the chapter finding some Dark Age weapons and being forced to hand them over to the AdMech, and it coming to blows when they want to keep some of it (which I know at least one example of the AdMech taking old weapons off of a chapter and then having to fight off said chapter). After this the Marines flees to the Eastern fringe and starts having to improvise when they start to run out of supplies, and the Tau would be the best candidate for this, as Necron and Eldar tech is very complex and Ork tech doesn't work unless you're an Ork.

tl;dr Just make it so the tech is stolen, not gifted because the space marines are serving the Tau, and most of the BIG problems with this go away.
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>>44663331
>Tau battle doctrine, while elegant in it's simplicity, is inferior to the collective works of the Codex.

And yet, you keep losing.
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>>44663351
Actually I'm a Tyranid player, I just really love the fluff for 40K.
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>>44663376

Then you should know that Farsight unravelled the Imperium's war doctrine, tactics and strategies of the Astra Militarum and the Codex Astertes in his Mirrorcodex. He actually does that with every new threat that he encounters.
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>>44663410
Calm your tits, Blueberry. Farsight is good at what he does, but the simple fact remains that at their cores, the Codex is superior, even if for the notion of it being the original piece that was used by the enemy. That's warfare for you. Stealing other peoples tactics and twisting their playbook for your own needs. My point remains...
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>>44663458

That there's no written example of the Codex Astartes or Puretide's teachings, we can't really say.
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>>44663483
>no written example of the Codex Astartes
Bitch
@
Please
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>>44640915

One of those smaller later day chapters, right? Yeah, I can see that. Well. Sorta depends on the exact arrangement, but if they're just affiliated mercs then there's nothing unbelievable about that.
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>>44661748

It's Tau related. OP is literally saying, "Hey I like this army's UNITS, but I want them to be actually part of a overpowered faction."

Either you like the fluff of an army or you pick a fucking different one. FFS go play Tau instead of trying to justify bad headfluff.
>>
>>44663331

>Updating the Codex.

But that's Heresy.
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>>44663483
Well of course not but that alone is a moot point when you look at the fact that Tau use too few flavors in the act of either balancing or specialization into these doctrines. You don't need written rules to see where these are going for the Tau.

The Astartes om the other hand have enough source material and alternative sources, in form allusions, to piecemeal your way through to a solid understanding of the Codex.

Nothing is concisely written on either side, but the doctrines are there if you do the reading.
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>>44663512
Tyrannic War

It happened.
>>
>>44663331
>By doctrine, Montka and Kauyon are dramatically inferior to the Codex (And not just because Our Spiritual Liege would say so.).

No, The full teachings of Kauyon and Mont'ka was never mastered by the Shadowsun and Farsight while and Shadowsun have cracked the codex (see the mirroe codex).

The events of Kauyon and Montka books shows that Tau strategy and tactics are by far superior to the marines. Even the marines themselves admit that Tau commanders are their equals in strategy. Heck, a captain captain thought that a Tau SERGEANT was his equal.

I suggest you do a little digging before making such baseless statements.
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>>44663556

Edit that fucking Tau-excuse of a post.
>>
>>44663331

Montka and Kauyon are not the only Tau methods of warfare, just the most popular ones.
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>>44663556
This post gave me cancer
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>>44663556
You'll notice I stated doctrine, not strategy and certainly not tactics. By strategy the Tau have the edge on most opponents. Tau outshine everyone in tactics however, essentially unparalleled by others, short of 'nids under the Swarmlord.

I suggest you read a real fucking book.
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>>44663568
Never.

Your marine masturbation has no place especially after the failures in Prefecia and Agrellan.

>>44663538
>Well of course not but that alone is a moot point when you look at the fact that Tau use too few flavors in the act of either balancing or specialization into these doctrines. You don't need written rules to see where these are going for the Tau.

Mont'ka and Kauyon are complex doctrines are by no means limiting. You have no proof that they are inferior to the codex or "limiting". In fact, it was the marine stupidity and blind following of the Codex that allowed the Tau to predict and counter the Marine tactics in "Kauyon" and the "Mont'ka" books while the Tau doctrines allowed for thinking outside the box kind of thought processes that caught the marines off guard constantly

>>44663556
Mirrorcodex

Shadowsun and Farsight cracked.
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>>44641419
Exceptions confirm the rule.
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>>44663556
>>44663604
Holy fuck. It's the Spiritual Liege all over again!
>>
>>44663571
I am aware, however I'm using them specifically because the Codex Astartes is also the most popular doctrine among Space Marine Chapters. I'm making the comparison on the more popular doctrines since there is too little information to compare the Codex Astartes to the Teachings of Commander Puretide to make an effective argument for either side.
>>
>>44663604
In grand strategy and battlefield tactics, the Tau schooled the Imperium.

If you want to read books, then read the Damocles Warzone books instead of masturbating about the codex which has proved to be the downfall of the marines during the many encounters with the Tau (especially those lead by Shadowsun and Farsight).
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>>44663625
>is too little information to compare the Codex Astartes to the Teachings of Commander Puretide to make an effective argument for either side.

I mean there is an easy way.

In the book "Kauyon" the Shadow Captain admitted to himself that Shas'Ui (sergeant) Starshroud was his equal in warcraft/stealth craft.

A Tau dude who can't be above late 20s is the qual of a centuries old marines captain. Now how did that happen? It's easy to guess. one was raised on Kauyon and the other on the Codex.
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>>44663331
>By doctrine, Montka and Kauyon are dramatically inferior to the Codex (And not just because Our Spiritual Liege would say so.). Consider this like comparing an omnibus containing dozens of millennia of human war doctrine from Sun Tzu to Caeser, World War 2 through the Horus Heresy and beyond.

People who rely exclusively on theories and ideas they derive from ancient texts are more likely than not to be incompetent, someone who has read the book but never digested it. While a worthwhile strategist will study the texts, he should also be able to improvise. Anyone who follows The Art of War, On War or any other military text religiously is an idiot. Not even the Ultramarines follow the Codex religiously, and Roboute Guilliman did not intend the Codex Astartes to be a religious text.
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>>44663556
>plot armor
>make everyone else retarded
>unfounded wankery
Muh superior Tau tactics
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>>44663721
They weren't too superior during the War of Dakka.
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>>44640915
Sure, "the universe is a big place" rule and all, shit you can have eldar marines if you want too.

Just don't expect it in any books.
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>>44663738
Farsight made a tactical mistake by engaging Ironteef in CQC fightfights and got himself ambushes.

He repaid Ironteef soon after by smashing his Waaagh! and reducing him to ash, Farsight then scooped the ash and put it in a glass ball.
>>
>>44663669
No shit Sherlock.

>>44663660
Raven Guard and White Scars are well known NOT to adhere to the Codex. I'm arguing doctrines, not plot armor.

>>44663620
Except that they are limiting doctrines designed and executed in different manners. I clarified things a few posts ago on the position of them.
>>
>>44663762
Still, only person to drive Farsight close to insanity and out maneuvering every turn more than any of the Imperials, orks.
Orks are the true adversary to the Tau.
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>>44663769
>I'm arguing doctrines, not plot armor.
You're arguing with a brick wall, m8.

>tfw superior tau tactics and strategy
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>>44663769
>Raven Guard and White Scars are well known NOT to adhere to the Codex. I'm arguing doctrines, not plot armor.

Nope, the Raven Guard and White Scars adhere to the codex but they have different ways of applying it. Also they weren't the only marines in that conflict.

>Except that they are limiting doctrines designed and executed in different manners. I clarified things a few posts ago on the position of them.

Nope, not at the extent of the codex. The codex is outdated and ridged. If your foe knows you are using it, then he can read you like a book.

>plot armour

You lose all creditability by saying that.

Your whole thing was whether the Tau twin tactics were inferior to the Codex or not. As we saw in the recent fluff, it was the codex and marines that were found wanting,
>>
>>44663798
If you are going to use FFG stuff, then in the same book it mentions that Tau Sept (system) used its strategies and tricks to kill HUNDREDS of billions of Guardsmen and stalemated the crusade forces.

Indeed superior tactics, if an isolated system can do that to huge crusade like that one in the Deathwatch books.
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>>44663835
>guardsmen
irrelevant to the discussion
>>
>>44663850
Nope, these guardsmen had the support of SM and other assets of Imperium. If the SM couldn't stop slaughter and prevent the stalemating of the crusade, then they have failed.

Take note that war in Prefecia had numerous IG regiments and these regiments and the Knights are the reason that the marines managed to prevent their rout from becoming a culling.
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The eternal shame of the Imperium.

When sergeants of the Shas are equal to the captains of da marines.
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>>44663940
This Tau sergeant is the equal of a marine captain.

Look at him.
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>>44663960
Forgot my picture but keep looking!
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>>44663971
LOOK!

Rip in peace Starshroud
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>>44663908
Hundreds of marines were killed and many more marines were serious injured.

And this was just at the start of the conflict.
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>>44664024
Lord knows what's the final tally of marine lives ruined or destroyed by the end of the conflict.

If the IG didn't step up to cover the marines, it would have been much worse. Marinefags you better be grateful for your IGbros.
>>
>>44664044
so its pearl harbor but murica never strikes back?
>>
>>44663042
>Comic fans cant ignore parts done by shit writers
That's the entire basis of modern Big 2 canon. You ignore things you don't like and it either never gets mentioned again or a good writer comes along who hates it just as much and retcons it to not be shit.
>>
>>44664044
>make the Marines retarded
>make the IG retarded
>"Tau did it", almost no explanation how
>>
All this blueberry butthurt... Oh how it nourishes me!

Anon is making a valid argument and even stated that strategy and tactics are in favor of the Tau. You guys need to pick up a dictionary, doctrine is a whole different matter and anon is right, the codex is a superior doctrine.
>>
>>44664070
The opposite .

The Tau baited the Imperium to the planet. When the Imperium landed they found that the planet was a funhouse of traps, snares, and ambushes. The Tau focused their efforts on isolating and eliminating the only force in the Imperium that can hinder their warfare, the marines.

The poor marines and Imperials kept falling into trap after trap, each time getting inflicted with heavy losses. Ultimately, the Imperials had enough of having the snot beaten out of them and left after one last Hurrah stand.

The Imperium retaliated soon after with a much larger force but that's another story.
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>>44664122
>planet wide traps
>they keep falling into it
is this space invaders?
>>
>>44664112
I disagree.

Fluffwise it's clearly inferior to the teachings of Puretide. Evidence by Farsight never fully mastering Puretide's teachings in the centuries long duration of his life, and yet he managed to crack the codex in a few years.

This makes me think the codex is very simplistic.

>>44664097
>No explanation

That's the final results of the battle I screencapped. If you want to read how you did it, then download the book and read the whole fluff about the battle.
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>>44664165
They did it*
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>>44664165

>This makes me think the codex is very simplistic.

I don't think so. It is more likely that he figured out a good part of it by comparing it with Puretide's own teachings. I'm certain that things like logistics, distances and speed are analogous enough to form educated guesses.
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>>44664122
Can you remind me about any conflict where Imperium won against Tau and got anything valuable in the end? Not a glassed planet, not a pile of smoking rubble, not a bunch of traitors to execute, but something useful and worth time and resources.
>>
>>44640950

the fluff would make sense if they didnt realise they were working for tzeentch the whole time. Seems like the kind of shit he'd pull, convincing them that tech is the solution to their problems and that some alien race with lots of tech is a great place to be. It'd be the cause of a lot of imperial incursion into tau space, driving up a lot of bother in a region that chaos doesnt really get a lot of action in.
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>>44664237

I think they learned a tactic or two, particularly with psykers in Vortolis. The Tau deploy psyker races along their fleets, but not on the ground yet.
>>
>>44664237
>but something useful and worth time and resources.

Technology.

The Admech legions raided a Tau colony and they did not leave until their ships cargo holds were stocked full of Tau tech.
>>
>>44664274
Admech never share their technology. Imperium won't get any of it, at best, or will have to deal with tech heresy at worse.
>>
>>44664291
Also an inquisitorial agent stole a dagger key for the daemon gate of Pandorax from a Tau museum.
>>
>>44664263
That's not even good. Somehow Inquisition and Rogue Traders never learned about psykers in Tau Empire before the war.
>>44664317
>dagger key for the daemon gate
Very fucking useful. Key which you will never use, stolen from xeno idiots for their own safety. Tau dodged Chaos raids and huge daemonic incursion there.
>>
>>44640915
Makes more sense if a group of Astartes felt cooperation with xenos such as Eldar or Tau would benefit humanity (since those are basically the only two with a chance of thinking mutual co-existence is alright), but realized that working openly alongside them would bring disfavor and excommunication from on high.

Instead, they patrol the borders between Imperial space and those regions and tend to fight the common enemies of both, while "fighting" the enemy faction and simply recording some of their losses as being at their hands to keep things looking legit.

Think how Italian mercenaries would go pretend to fight, have little to no casualties, then both would go back and tell their respective bosses they won.
>>
>>44664237
The Imperium rarely wins anything valuable from conflicts. They are on the defense most of the time anyway.
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>>44640915
>>
>>44664317
Also Logan retrieved the Tomb of Leman Russ from the Tau.

The Ultramarines prevented an Imperial relic from falling into Tau hands.

To name a few things.
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>>44640915
Space Marines can do whatever the fuck they feel like. It would result in excommunication and probably a war in the chapter, but it's entirely possible.
Example: Soul Drinkers. A chapter gone rouge because they wouldn't let the AdMech fuck with them. Then they got more or less tainted by chaos (2 major characters get heavy mutations) , but still they fight chaos and to a certain degree imperial forces.
If you just swap chaos in their fluff for Tau it would be reasonable that they fully convert to them, since they don't mutate and maybe they even get a conquered planet to defend.
>>
>>44664446
>A chapter gone rouge
In the grim darkness of warhammer 40,000 there is only makeup tutorials
>>
>>44655979
The Cain books and Gaunt's Ghosts books both disagree on how well the IG understand an employ thermal vision. There are so many 40K writers that every now and again huge details get glossed over, that doesn't mean that it isn't canon. Unless they've actively retconned it there is evidence to suggest that the Tau were uplifted by the Eldar. That alone makes it more believable than half the nonsense that's hinted at but has no evidence and is still taken as canon.

Also, doesn't change the fact that Mankind played God in a setting in a setting where other literal gods have trouble competing (creating anything stbale outside of the Warp). Mankind's tech wipes the floor with Tau tech and there's a reason they're trying to recover rather than rebuild.
>>
>>44664446
>lol chaos and tau are almost the same amirite
Why are you stupid?
>>
>>44664523
I didn't say that.
>>
>>44641362
Imagine a planet full of Diggas fighting Blood Axes. Humans pretending to be orks and orks pretending to be humans.
>>
>>44641347
>to be a groot
I just had da most 'ilarious brain pikshure, ov a buncha Tree-gits in an ork encampment.
>>
>>44641363
Nah,we just need Emps back!

Thorian stronk!
>>
>>44640915
Although I'd say it's pretty likely that something like this COULD happen, I doubt they would be given a planet in exchange for some kind of "deal" with the tau. Tau don't have enough planets to give up to just to let one go to some weakened chapter of mercenaries. Because of this, the chapter would probably die out in a few hundred years or be required to be fleet based, raiding human worlds for fresh recruits. A fleet, which arguably requires Imperium support to function. This means they'd have to raid for recruits as well as fleet support personnel/servitors.

Overall a meh idea. I've heard it thousands of times. Most will hate it because it sounds Sueish. But it's just okay.
>>
>>44651662
>It backfired horrifically.
Why am I not surprised?
>>
>>44652383
>Who's the first two?
Noisy aircon and not having enough prune juice.
>>
>>44664523
Then why use Soul Drinkers as an example? They were heavily manipulated, tainted and corrupted by Chaos and their leaders who willingly went Chaos
>>
>>44656476
>Other sources, going back to Rogue Trader, leave their origin a mystery but don't say anything about them needing to enter realspace to breed either.

The Enslavers are said to have physical bodies and that they don't need a connection to the Warp to exist in real space. So...they are not Warp creatures.
>>
This thread proves how autistic 40k fans over anything that isn't the same
>>
>>44656028
>mortensen will never wreck shit again with krieg.
what a shame
>>
>>44663940
Isn't that guy part of the Eight, the super traitors trained by Farsight?
>>
>>44665145
No

he is an Empire Tau, not Enclave.
>>
>>44657399
Read Redemoption Corps. It's really interesting.
>>
>>44665149
He's the Pathfinder that has the skills of a commander, but refuses because he doesn't like suits?
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>>44665198
No.

That's Darkstrider.
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>>44664642
Sounds like a dream.
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>>44663604
>short of 'nids under the Swarmlord.

So has the swarmlord jobbed to anyone yet? Or is he still unparalleled tactical genius without match?
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>>44668758
First time was in WD387, in a rematch with Calgar on Ichar IV (which was later included in the 6th edition Tyranid codex). I recall Yriel got it on Valedor as well. Possibly Farsight too.
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>>44668946
>Swarmy wasn't even allowed to have bested Calgar.
fucking god damnit
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>>44669069
>implying any immortal world-destroying monster could hope for lasting victory over the spiritual liege of all Space Marines.
>>
>>44669161
how the fuck do you even beat the swarmlord in single combat?

Like seriously, nothing short of plot armor or shooting him from afar should work.
>>
>>44669235
gotta hoype up the new big thing, m8

regular hive tyrants are old hat
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>>44663811

It was plot armor; sorry you are so butt-blasted mate.
>>
>>44669235
40k is not a consistent setting. Also, special characters and gods will be thrown under the buss to hype up other special characters in the fluff.
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>>44669451
Ssh, best to let it die in case heCarnac comes back.
>>
>>44640915
they would at best have non aggression pact with th e tau but if the get a feeling the tau are oppressing their human subjects they may attack or
they're renegades who were close with the mechanus for sharing ideals about technology but they were for one reason or another declared traitor and left then started to raid tau space for parts and technology a fascination with xenotech could be what got them branded traitors
>>
>>44663778
wasn't there an elder of all people who said the orks were the ubermensch
>>
>>44669451
Your just mad that you have no credibility and just throw buzzwords around like feces.

The fluff is clear. The Tau are superior commanders. Period.
>>
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>>44663762
>>44663778
>>44670443
Well of course, Ork were literally MADE for Fighting, and in the grim darkness of the Forty First Millenia, there is ONLY WAR!
>>
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>>44670443
Uthan the Perverse:
>"The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude."
>>
>>44670555
>not sure if absolutely heretical or absolutley unorky
>>
>>44670299
If Marines went around attacking every government that oppressed human subjects the Imperium would be dead.
>>
>>44663660
Or bad authors. ... shit half these arguments could be solved by bl authors are shit; they always need to make something exciting happen without a look to what the rest of the fluff says about a group.

Or gw says make these guys look great sales are down we néed something to make fan boys by this model range.
>>
>>44671660
I should have put in more then necessary levels of oppression
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