Kings of War

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Hey fellow fa/tg/uys, I'm thinking about jumping into this Soni finally have an excuse to build a Dwarf army. I have a few questions though.

Is the game any fun? Like, is this the four hour grind/rules argument that is Warhammer/40k?

Are the rules any good? Are the factions balanced at all or are there one or two top dogs and then everyone else?

Are dwarves any good?

Lastly, what point limit do you usually play at?

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>>44637270
Seems solid for 1000 points. You got two sources of Inspiring, which is fine at this level. I like cavalry that comes with Nimble base, which you've taken.

You also seem to have taken a slice of your infantry options. I understand the single spear unit, but why'd you split your damage-dealing infantry between three different units? Model variety? They all fit the same basic role, with the knights being saved for whatever high defense block your opponent fields obviously. Not complaining mind you, I like seeing a variety of different models and units on the field myself.

>>44637618
>Is the game any fun? Like, is this the four hour grind/rules argument that is Warhammer/40k?
My first game, with an opponent who was also playing their first game, took ninety minutes. Kings of War is much faster than Fantasy of 40k.

>Are the rules any good? Are the factions balanced at all or are there one or two top dogs and then everyone else?
I prefer the rules to Fantasy myself. The game is much simpler than eighth, which is a plus for some and minus for others. The factions seem fairly balanced and I can't think of any that are particularly weak over 1500 points (Ogres seem a tad weak below that just because they get massively outnumbered on the field unless you field a bunch of Goblins with them). I haven't played against every army though, such as Nightstalkers who have a really strange army rule that might throw them into weird balance territory.

>Are dwarves any good?
Dwarves are solid. They have good melee and shooting units, as well as some of the better war machines. I'm currently building a Dwarf army myself.

>Lastly, what point limit do you usually play at?
1500-2000 in my play group.

I just can''t take this game seriously. It's so blatantly devoid of any originality whatsoever.

>>44637820
As opposed to what, Warhammer? I don't play and I'll give you it seems to be genetic fantasy, but that seems to be the idea.

>>44637820
It's a catch-all rehash by the guy who wrote 6th ed WHFB
It's intentionally a "your dudes" by ex-GW staff as a big middle finger to GW by actually fixing the damn game albeit without the license.

Keep the WHFB minis, keep the WHFB lore, play KoW ruleset.

It's basically a company supported 1-page WHFB, which IIRC was highly reccomended before WHFB fanboys got all butthurt

>>44637925
>It's basically a company supported 1-page WHFB, which IIRC was highly reccomended before WHFB fanboys got all butthurt
The thing is KoW is a pretty streamlined game in comparison. I.e. it doesn't have all the baggage and clunky shit that has been tacked onto GW games edition after edition.
Used to be the 'competitive' alternative since it actually lends itself much better to competitive or tournament play due to better internal balance.
When WHFB was killed off some diehard spergs thought this was in fact something to be upset about. Like adding dozens of special rules is even necessary to add flavor to your games.

I'm saying this as somebody who always collected fluffy armies and mostly stayed with the whole hobby thing because I enjoy converting and painting over playing.
Seriously though, WHFB had a really loud vocal completely idiotic portion of fans that were somehow upset that KoW was not a 1:1 carbon copy, for whatever reason.

Guess now that the dust has settled and the hardcore fans either moved on or settled for AoS that debate is over. Guess some people just aren't happy unless they got something to complain about.

>>44637657
>I understand the single spear unit, but why'd you split your damage-dealing infantry between three different units? Model variety?

Basically yes. Is it better to have fewer, larger damage-dealing infantry?

>>44638090
Not necessarily, I was more referring to having paladin knights, sisterhood infantry, and foot paladins instead of just three of one type. I personally like variety like that, but often I see spam so I was just curious.

>>44638136
Okay, cool.

Just wondering, but how important is shooting?

I was thinking of swapping out my Abbess for a Heavy Arbalest or a war wizard.

>>44638136
They're hardly the same.

Sisterhood are shock troops or reserve
Foot paladins are armored front line

Foot paladins are generic med-heavy infantry with better staying power. Against non-cavalry, not-anti armor units they'll fare better than the spears at arms. You want these guys against high attack dice but low armor penetration, like a horde of zombies.

Sisterhood do more damage against heavier armored targets than the foot paladins, and get the functional equivalent of "elite" for more reliable damage in exchange for considerably less staying power. They flank better too having more attack dice for the multiplier. You'll want to give them chaff, or leave them in reserve to counter-flank.

>>44639000
You can build a very shooty army that does well against newer players.

Otherwise shooting is largely for support. The way the nerve mechanic works, since you roll to route each time you deal any damage, shooting is often meant to try and deal just one damage across many units. This is generally a very effective way to deal with chaff and expose more vulnerable parts of the opponent. Otherwise you can make builds that focus on one or few hard hitting shooting units which are actually intended to whittle down just a few targets but this is difficult for factions that don't have good shooting units (eg Range 4+ instead of Range 5+, or really really good armor penetration).

Shooting is not hard to shut down though, so be prepared for flying units and individuals to hunt down any key shooting or spell units.

>>44639037
>You'll want to give them chaff

Chaff?

>>44639678
cheap sacrificial cover units that make it hard to engage a more valuable target before it can deliver it's payload

>>44637618
>Is the game any fun? Like, is this the four hour grind/rules argument that is Warhammer/40k?
Games of KoW take me about half the time it took me to play WFB. Rules arguments are pretty rare, and if they ever pop up tend to be matters of maneuvering and seeing whether something is able to charge something else.

>Are the rules any good?
I think they are fantastic. Imagine Warhammer Fantasy with all the gritty detail taken out, and with the basics re-worked to be more streamlined. Folks who don't know better call it warhammer lite, but your decision-making on the table is every bit as important as it is in warhammer, while listbuilding is nowhere near as much a determinant of your success.

>Are the factions balanced at all or are there one or two top dogs and then everyone else?
Many of the units are similar enough across factions that you can almost determine the formula mantic use to write and balance units. Units are a bit less distinct than in WFB, but the balance is far greater. There are still some discrepencies in power with certain undead builds being pretty tough, but nothing ever approaches a situation where you can tell who will win by looking at the lists.

>Are dwarves any good?
Definitely effective. A pure gunline doesn't work reliably in KoW, but dorfs get effective shooting that works well when combined with their high defense infantry. They also get badger-riding cavalry, which besides looking awesome are very effective and actually let dwarfs play aggressively. Also they get earth elementals, which give them some very tough heavy hitters with a narrow frontage.

>Lastly, what point limit do you usually play at?
I like games of 1500-2000 points, but the only reason I don't go higher is because my local opponents don't have armies any larger yet.

>>44640145
>certain undead builds being pretty tough
There's a whole thread on the forums debunking this.
They stickied the last debacle too, that flying units in general are overpowered because so many people were trying to run gunlines and got curbstomped by it.

It's counter intuitive but you can ignore some particularly annoying flying heroes. They're very expensive, can't flank, and can only shut down one ranged unit at a time. Specifically very good at shutting down deathstar buffed ranged units (looking at you, elves). If you chase after a De6 unit you can't damage, you're just making it worse. Focus on crushing his forces that are 200+ points smaller than yours and don't get disorganized. He spent at least 200+ points on a hero that can only dish out about 1-3 damage per turn. If he wastes that shutting down <200 pt ranged units every round then your wasting his investment. For the 200 points on your end you can field hardhitting frontline units that can rip&tear his main forces.
tl;dr
it's a trap
field counter-hero heroes (quicksilver rapier w/ CS)
rely on deathstar shooting and buffs less

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Pic from the Elves vs. Salamanders game I played on Tuesday.

>>44640425
I like the use of fish tank plants on the Salamanders bases

as Beastmen player... how bad The Herd is?

Does anyone happen to have a scan of uncharted empires on hand? That would be appreciated since I haven't been able to find one, and I haven't seen a KoW thread for a while now.

>>44637618
>Is the game any fun? Like, is this the four hour grind/rules argument that is Warhammer/40k?
A 100 point battle in KoW (about 150-200 minis on the table easily) takes less than 2h played by beginners.

>>44639000
Flying is used early game to tenderize the meant and late gamer to take out damaged units by forcing routing tests on them. You can't really base your whole army on it but it's a nice touch to have.

>>44640770
>Flying
Firing

>>44640695
>The Herd
I haven't had much experience with them, but I've heard that they're just fine. The entire race gets a rule which means that they ignore terrain penalties for movement and charging, which combined with their already good speed and thunderous charge bonuses across the board means that they are very well suited to smashing things on the charge. Lots of good infantry and cavalry options to fill all sorts of roles, but most have middling durability, only have moderate shooting and no artillery.

Like most armies in KoW there are lots of viable ways to build them.

If you like youtube, mastercrafted have a lot of KoW battle reports featuring The Herd. High quality pictures and production, too.

>>44640695
As a rule of thumb, no army "sucks" at a whole in KoW. The thing is mostly balanced and Mantic knows how to scale the costs properly.

>>44637618
Is fun and fast, you can play it in less than an hour when you have the basics down, the game is balanced very well for what I played or seen, flyers is about the only ones than I have problems with. Dorfs are good, solid inf and the best warmachines. 1500 points for me.

>>44640695
Fast, hit hard and they move well in hard terrain ,so they are very good in good hands. Squishy tough, so watch for projectils.

Anyone knows a good alternative for Basilean Sister of Battles on horse? The Kensei ones from Zenith are cool but a bit too expensive.

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I've been working on my Abyssal dwarfs. First time multibasing 28mm figs, feels good.

>>44642557
Nice, Rhunesque like colour style, are they fucking blue/grey of skin?
Anyone knows were to get our old copypasta?

>>44643050
Here :
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/43689889/#43689889

>>44643662
Nice, also anyone has read the new book?

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So I'm considering jumping into this so I can build a cool Dwarf army.

What would be a good way to start? I guess I should be aiming for about 1000 to 1500 points. Is there a decent Dwarf army I could build for that?

What are common point breaks in Kings of War?

I don't play and tabletop wargames, but I now have a pretty big ass collection of Orc and Undead mantic figures and may get into it.

Also are there KoW rules for the Dungeon Saga units like the undead troll shaman and undead trolls?

>>44645514
>undead trolls?
yes
>undead troll shaman
not in the base pdf

I'm wondering if an All Elohi army is viable.

On one hand, your model count is miniscule.

On the other hand, every one has CS1 and TC1, fly, and nimble.

>>44645778
Doable yes, it would be the ultimate glass cannon.

>all werewolf army

>>44645473
I don't play dorfs but of course. What kind of play style do you like? Dwarf in KoW are very good shoots and they warmachines are from the best, pair it with some infantry and you have a good 1500 points army for sure.
>>44645778
The absolute madman. Do it.

>>44645514
I think that the expansion /campaign book they're releasing later this year has rules for porting things from Dungeon Saga into KoW. I think its only for heroes, but I dunno.

>>44646218
So basic dudes, lots of guns and some warmachines? I can do that

>>44646905
Get at least two sources of inspiring too, they will make your dudes last longer.

>>44639678
Literally the husks and grassy bits that you remove from grain in the threshing process. In wargaming terms, the cheap crappy light stuff that screens and protects the more important, juicier core units.

>>44646871
I read about it having more rules to customization your army and stuff like this. If true it would erase my last buts about the game.

>>44645473
Grab the starter army, a hero or two and maybe a second war machine. Should be a solid start.

anyone tried ratkin yet? ive got a small skaven force im looking at using as i never really got into fantasy. ive got about 60 island of blood rats, some weapon teams, 2 of the island warlords, some rat orges, and 2 doom wheels. looking for some advice how i can expand this out to an army and what to avoid

>>44649779
For what I remember of the beta the Rat aberration kicked ass big deal so if you like rat monsters it would be a good idea to acquire one.

>>44645963
>>all werewolf army
I've seen this one done before. It's glass cannon as hell but holds a huge advantage with objective based games.

>>44651479
I once tried to run the whole flank of my undead army with werewolves.

It hits hard, fast and leaves nothing alive, not even themselves.

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Posted this in the WIP General a while ago, may as well post it here too.

King on Chimera for my Varangur.

>>44652867
How will you paint him? The mini is good.

>>44646218
>>44645963
Well, it's time to make an all-elohi (or similar) list for Kow

So the 3 units I can bring are

3 man Elohi

6 man Elohi

And Dictator on Griffin (Because Reasons)

And Warmachines, because I can't be >noguns

So, for a 2000 list, what would work?

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>>44653444

The beast itself will be like these nurglings I painted up for Frostgrave, the rider and the rest of the chaos warriors and BlightKings I'll be using are probably going to be paler, and more purple flesh wise, and clad in a kind of dirty beaten and maybe a bit rusty armour.

I've never been a fan of Nurgle warriors painting their armour green, always seemed a bit silly for a god and worshipers so unconcerned with appearances. It'll just be bare metal with all the colour coming from rust and dirt and the like.

Still trying to think of a list though, I need some fast movers to run as chaff and/or interference for my Sons of Korgan. ATM I'm thinking of using Vampire counts Dire Wolves as Tundra wolves.

Also contemplating using a Plague Drone Blightking kitbash as Mounted Sons of Korgan but not sure it'll work.

>>44654103

Durr, obviously meant for:

>>44653197

>>44654103
>ATM I'm thinking of using Vampire counts Dire Wolves as Tundra wolves.
If you want something more outlandish, you could try to score some second hand wargs from LotR

>>44654596

I do like the LOTR wargs but I'm going for a purely nurgle force so I kind of like the zombie dogs.

I am up for alternatives though just so I don't have to support GW.

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>>44654717
Reaper do pretty good zombie dogs. Only four variants all in all though.
Gamezone have some gorgeous undead wolves. There are six variants, a little more expensive though.

>>44653444
You mean High Paladin on Griffin?

2000 Pts - Forces of Basilea Roster
Elohi Horde, 300 pts (Fly; Headstrong; Inspiring; Iron Resolve; Nimble; Thunderous Charge (1); Crushing Strength (1))

Elohi Horde, 300 pts (Fly; Headstrong; Inspiring; Iron Resolve; Nimble; Thunderous Charge (1); Crushing Strength (1))

Elohi Regiment, 195 pts (Fly; Headstrong; Inspiring; Iron Resolve; Nimble; Thunderous Charge (1); Crushing Strength (1))

High Paladin on Griffin (1#, 210 pts)
1 High Paladin, 130 pts (Headstrong; Heal (2); Inspiring; Iron Resolve; Nimble; Crushing Strength (1); Individual)

War Engine (1#, 65 pts)
1 Heavy Arbalest, 65 pts (Blast (D3+2); Iron Resolve; Piercing (3); Reload!)

War Engine (1#, 65 pts)
1 Heavy Arbalest, 65 pts (Blast (D3+2); Iron Resolve; Piercing (3); Reload!)

War Engine (1#, 65 pts)
1 Heavy Arbalest, 65 pts (Blast (D3+2); Iron Resolve; Piercing (3); Reload!)

War Engine (1#, 65 pts)
1 Heavy Arbalest, 65 pts (Blast (D3+2); Iron Resolve; Piercing (3); Reload!)

Crossbowmen Horde (40#, 240 pts)
40 Crossbowmen Horde, 240 pts (Crossbow(s); Iron Resolve; Piercing (1); Reload!)
1 Blessing of the Gods

Crossbowmen Horde (40#, 215 pts)
40 Crossbowmen Horde, 215 pts (Crossbow(s); Iron Resolve; Piercing (1); Reload!)

1 Priest, 90 pts (Headstrong; Iron Resolve; Nimble; Very Inspiring (Penitents only); Heal (3); Bane-chant (2); Crushing Strength (1); Individual)

1 Priest, 90 pts (Headstrong; Iron Resolve; Nimble; Very Inspiring (Penitents only); Heal (3); Bane-chant (2); Crushing Strength (1); Individual)

1 Priest, 90 pts (Headstrong; Iron Resolve; Nimble; Very Inspiring (Penitents only); Heal (3); Bane-chant (2); Crushing Strength (1); Individual)

Validation Report:
Game Edition: 2nd Ed.; File Version: 1.12
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules


Total Roster Cost: 2000

>>44657815
so, my pool of models would be

2 griffins

4 regiments of Elohi

4 Hordes of Elohi

5 Arbalests.

So would 3 hordes, 3 regiments, and 5 Arbalests+magic gear for my hordes work?

>>44657922
Undoubtedly - the maneouvorability of you list will cause lots of fits to those who are caught unawares - be sure to measure what you think the space will be before committing to a flying charge.

>>44657993
so 3 hordes, 3 regiments, 5 arbalests and magic is good?

Or should I swap 3 Arbalests for a griffon?

>>44658037
You want some bluff drops, especially if they break out the magic item that causes you to drop d3+1 units.

Remember, this game is about scenarios, not just smash face.

>>44637270
dogs of war checking in
where can i find pdfs of the army lists
thinking of making the switch

>>44658219
The free rules from Mantic are here: http://www.manticgames.com/free-rules.html

Kingdoms of Men is probably what you're looking for if you played Dogs of War in Fantasy. The free version is missing a few units, but most of that particular army is there.

With that bad ass Nightmares list, anyone got a lead on Scarecrow minis? or a relatively easy conversion since I need at least 40

>>44652867

Great mini. That model is the definition of centrepiece.

>>44661449
Look at Tale of War, they have some dark Faerie tale minis than are pretty cool, and a Scare Crow is one of them. The pity is the price, they ain't cheap.

>>44658219
Kingdom of Men and pick merc of what do you need from other factions (flyers or whatever).

>>44660978
>Not who you are responding to.
I'm new to kings of war but I really like the idea of the kingdoms of men army and it means I can finally use my various historical minis for something. My o it issue is that army list doesn't have any info on the weapons.

>>44664080
Assuming your talking about the weapons used by units (i.e. spears on spearmen), everything is included in the unit profile and special rules, weapons dont have individual rules like in warhammer.

>>44664475
So say I'm using a militia mob I can just build the model with anything?

>>44664671
Yup, you don't have to make a regiment or troop with the twenty or ten minis, a troop or six or five and a regiment of twelve if well done count as a full unit etc. Is great for dioramas.

>>44640425

Can you put multiple models on one tray instead of bases? Do you have to have the exact number of models you purchased in your army lists represented on the movement tray? I.e I have 40 goblins but only model 25 on there to make room for a cool scenic base??

>>44665533
What matters is if its the right base size for a troop/regiment/horde/legion. What is on that base does not matter as long as it properly represents the unit in question.

25 is over 50% so long as the base is right most people will have no issues. I prefer to go 75% if possible. If you were using GW goblins you could for example put in a few squigs or some GW snotling bases to bulk out the numbers as long as the majority of models have the proper weapons for the unit.

>>44665533

The FAQ also says that certain proxies are acceptable providing they are roughly equivalent in terms of what they do and the space they take up.

The specific example in the FAQ is 2 chariots in place of 10 knights.

It's also worth keeping in mind that this is for tournament play, in friendly games you'll probably get even more leeway providing you don't use snotlings to represent ogres or something equally daft.

Wish there was a good model line for Nightstalkers. I'm really interested in the concept, but they're fairly hard to do justice in miniture form due to their nature as "terrifying shit you think you see out of the corner of your eye". Its kind of like when a horror movie just upright shows you the monster. When you can see them, when you can clearly know what you're dealing with, it instills way less fear.

Also most miniture producers just make a skeleton when they wanna do spoopy minis.

>>44666299
>>44667165
So for kingdoms of men I was going to reuse some saga minis. I have them mounted on 25mm rendara. I was going to put them in a move ment tray for round bases. Is that a fair size or too big?

>>44667316
Within two years all current lists are supposed to have minis for most if not all options

>>44667165
A good example I have seen is orc units with all sorts of fun things mixed in there.

Lets you really go for the 'horde' look with goblins poking spears past the big guys and such.

>>44667515

You can buy multi base stands for KoW for specifically this purpose.

I think Warbases make some.

>>44667515
As long as the footprint is correct, you are ok. You also have to have at least 50% +1 model for model count on the base.

>>44667526
I know, but I still want them. I actually want to buy shit from Mantic to support their company, but they don't really have anything I need right now. Good Nightstalker minis would probably wring quite a bit out of me.

>>44667316
On the official forums people have suggested several of the Dreadball teams as alternative models. I've also seen the Spellcrow Dyniaq suggested if you want more of a Halloween horror theme, although that's not really in the terrifying category.

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Does anyone here have a copy of Destiny of Kings yet? I'm curious what all it has in it. I've read there's a campaign and then a set of lopsided missions, as well as new hero units, but I can't find much specific. Did it add all the Dungeon Saga heroes and bosses or just the core game ones? Does it have any new magic items?

>>44669189
Man, that book isn't even out yet. Calm yo teets

>>44669189
Not released yet, tough I'm pretty hyped for it. More customization is ever good in my book.

>>44669301
>>44669262
Kickstarter backers have a digital copy already. Hard copy doesn't come out until next month.

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>>44669326

I got it with my second wave of KoW2 KS stuff.

>>44669189

An overview:

- General introduction to campaigns
- Rules for an abstract map campaign(with exp and such)
- introduction to narrative campaign
- A narrative campaign called "Quest of the Necromancer" that stretches over 7 scenarios (1 being a DS scenario)
-Rules for some of the heroes/Villains from DS
-6 generic loopsided "narrative" scenarios, like Last Stand and a flank ambush.

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>>44654103
>Also contemplating using a Plague Drone Blightking kitbash as Mounted Sons of Korgan but not sure it'll work.

I've got one of these maggot cavalry pieces by Hitech I was thinking of using myself as a Rot Knight in Warhammer Fantasy, but they might fill a similar role for what you're looking for as well.

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>>44669573
Thanks for the info, I appreciate you taking the time to give a brief outline.

I'm assuming since you say it has some of the Dungeon Saga characters it's just the ones outlined in the base game? Or is it just kind of a random mix that fit the campaign?

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>>44669727

It´s just one page so it would be easier for me to show you, there is also 3 new DS characters/monsters not shown here.

>>44669819
Okay, cool. Looks like the core game heroes and main boss and the Return of Valandor module hero and boss. Thanks again.

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>>44669897
no prob

>>44667165
>>44666299

I just feel weird having my beastmen in perfect rank-and-file formations. I like tray as an abstraction but think they should look a little more disorganized, a ragged battle line at best. Plus it makes it more visually interesting when I can add some trees and forest bits on the base, making their tray look more asymmetrical ical.

>>44671763
So don't
Make a big base that's the proper size for the unit footprint, then scatter them around a bit haphazardly so that they aren't in a perfect rectangle.

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>>44653444
Threw something together real quick like

Would be pretty fun to play, tried to cram a fair bit of heal in to keep your expensive hard hitters alive.
Could also be done pretty cheap, legit considering buying a bunch of reaper bones angels just so I can run this.

>>44672183
I'd skip the Ur-elohi, and take more Elohi.

>>44672469
They're a bit cheaper, harder to kill, hit nearly as hard, and have heal. If I'm going to cut anything, it'll be Julius and some artefacts.

>>44671763
You don't need to do it even in official tournies mate. Put some bushes or trees, some beasties perhaps and the beastmen, and you will only have to have the footprint correct and a majority of the minis having the right look or equipement to be legal and cool looking.

I'm torn between buying into this or into Warmachine/Hordes.

Opinions?
There's lots of players for both in my area but I don't have time to spend on both.

There's lots of used Warmachine armies I can buy, and plenty of old already painted WHFB armies I can get at up to 50% off.

>>44674447
It depends of what do you like best. Warmachines and Hordes are very solid and you can do some sick combos with your warcasters/warlocks and they beasties and units, plus the universe is pretty cool.
KoW is more for fast and big battles between armies, it's all balanced and gives you a big leeway for pimping your army and be competitive or as fluffy as you like, or both and enjoy it. The world isn't that fleshed out tough, one of the greatest weakness of the game for lore-whores.

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>>44673101
>>44672469
>>44672183
Probably way better now

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So any idea when the Naiad models are coming out?

>>44678913
they haven't said. The only real info on when new armies are getting models is "within the next two years"

So, yea.

>>44678913
Forces of the Abyss come out next month, with a mix of missing units from the dwarf, undead, and elf armies coming out in March, so no earlier then April.