Are Cadians the most badass Guardsmen? Sure Catachans live on a death world but Cadia is constantly attacked by Chaos so they see more disturbing shit and face tougher opponents. I still prefer Savlar Chem Dogs though.
All Imperial Guardsman are of such a high badass level, it becomes impossible to rate them against one another. Cadians also have the benefit of showing up in adaptations more than any other regiment, so they're badassery is on display more often than everyone else.
Krieg will probably always be my favorite, but I haven't seen a Guard regiment I didn't love yet.
Cadians are, unarguably, the most badass Guardsmen. Even their civilians are trained to shoot and probably as good as the PDF forces of most worlds. Their entire world is constantly prepared for war, from the buildings to the landscape to the endless numbers of its population, and they're prepared to war against the most ancient, worst enemies the Imperium has to face. They're a rather dour lot, prefer experience to doughty rank or title, and prefer plain and serviceable to the ornate, but they're good for quick, decisive action, and are prepared to die well, but not needlessly - perfect soldiers.
It's too bad they've become the generic guardsmen since they're default model.
Every time I see that image this is all I can think of.
I'm going with the Mordian Iron Guard. Their world is in perpetual darkness but they decided that if they're going to die for the Emperor then they're going to meet him well dressed.
Not quite as well.
What makes the Cadians an A+ fighting force is that they're a solid A-/B+ in everything, rather than being A+ in one specific field like other specialized human races like Catachans, Steel Legion, etc.
I thought the Steel Legion's real specialty was in fighting against Orks, but you make a fair point.
I'm sure they drum up all the civilians as conscripts when a Black Crusade happens, but most of the children are probably not considered part of the Guard unless they get made into Whiteshields. Besides, there has to be people to make their armors and armor and food.
>The birth rate and the military recruitment rate are synonymous.
I mean sure if you count people too young to be recruited yet there are also civilians, but I'm sure not even Cadian babies can shoot yet
I can never really see Krieg as badass. There's a kind of tragic heroism to guardsmen who on some level are functioning human beings, but a regiment of crippled, battery-farmed child soldiers is just sad.
Too each their own. I just think they look awesome.
>I can never really see Krieg as badass
It's because you think by the categories of "badass" and "cool".
That's not the line of thinking for an officer of the Imperial Guard. Kriegers are not "badass", they are "loyal", "industrious" and "efficient". And that, my friend, is the absolute most you can ask from a Guardsmen.
Wouldnt the existence of ''Cadian Pattern'' weaponry etc disprove that second point?
I mean, its not like every unit is constantly at war. I imagine they probably have a bit of time to make shit in the centuries between Black Crusades
It was in one of the older codexes.
"Cadia has a recruitment rate almost identical to it's birth rate, and the mortality rate isn't far behind"
And yes, it imports EVERYTHING. It's among the most important fortress worlds in known space, as the gateway to and from the eye of terror.
>Wouldnt the existence of ''Cadian Pattern'' weaponry etc disprove that second point
It could easily mean that it was designed by a soldier with some engineering education and later adopted for production with minor improvements elsewhere
the same way AK was brought into existence.
For example, if you ever encounter picrelated gun, chance are about 99% it was not made in Tula, even though it's name says "Tokarev's Tula model".
>I mean, its not like every unit is constantly at war
The absolute most of military units throughout the human history were not at war for the most of their existence. Tip: service =! warfare, but its still service.
Come on lads - regular Sister of Battle appreciation threads, hundreds of threads about Space Marines, and no one gives some love to the hammer of the Emperor?
Tell me which Imperial Guard regiment is your favorite and why.
The iron Guard, for taking Napoleontic line tactics and making their use make sense.
Also, their idea of adequate tank support is rather... impressive.
Steel Legion or Kriegers .
Steel legion are one of the few IG that have a strategy which makes a lot of sense to me. There's just something about "future" and "exclusively mechanized infantry" that resonates with me. Most IG just use numbers but actually having proper vehicle support is nice.
But Kriegers just look the best. Their backstory is just the kind of grimdark that I expect out of 40K. I would like the Steel Legion more but their uniforms are a shade of than that really rubs me the wrong way.
Catachan, for being chill on every detail, while also being thouroughly badass in any kind of guerilla scenario.
Cadians get a close second, because fucking space marine chapters listen to their commanders. The biggest "fuck you we do it by the codex" badasses in the imperium take a seat and follow cadians directions, cos they have that kind of reputation.
Well, yes and no. Those guardsmen mentioned in the fluff usually have wildly varying tactics and doctrines, with only a handful of them (Krieg, Valhalla, most penal legions) relying on just numbers to get the job done.
However, the types of regiments that GW chooses to use in its fluff are specially chosen to demonstrate the diversity of regiment types in the Imperium. If you look at absolute numbers, it is mentioned a few times that many, if not most guard regiments are recruited en masse from the downtrodden and criminals of the hive worlds, poorly equipped and sent into the meatgrinder to die. It's not as bed as somee of the mems would like you to beleive, but most regiments in the Imperium are more like the Valhallans then the Cadians.
Also, in the Guard there is a gulf of difference between using as much vehicles as possible, and having a properly mechanised fighting force.
Forgeworlds don't provide souls. Hives do that. Hives also produce some tech.
Honestly not sure what civilized worlds contribute. They should be upgraded to Hive or Forge. Arguably Feral too, but that's going to take more time.
"For every man that falls there will be ten to take his place!"
You just got to love DoWI and their representation of 40k.
They made a perfect abstract of all the memes and over dramaticized jokes in the 40k universe AND managed to stick to canon.
Civilized only means 'relatively peacefull' in comparision to anything else. It's most likely worlds similar to earth nowadays, whose industry is too small and insignifican to provide anything for the wareffort, except some souls, preists and techpriests.
I love the idea of heavily armored troopers operating in operations. I just wish they were easier to make without using the metal kashrikins.
get rekt xenos fagets
I like Cadians but the Vostroyans are starting to rival them in my position for favorite regiment.
Cadians are cool and all, but do they have bitchin hats, mastercrafted las rifles, and blinged out armor?
No they do not. And thus you see that the Vostroyans are the only real choice.
Rebel Winter sealed the Firstborn as one of my favorite regiments. I wish I could remember the name of the commander of the story but him and the Commisar are badasses. It would have been nice to have seen how the whole thing played out in the end when they get recruited by an Ordo Xenos inquisitor.
WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS THREAD LAPDOGS AH- I MEAN FELLOW GUARD MILITIA
HOW BOUT DAT CORPSE-GOD, YESsss?
Death Korps. I love their look and lore. To me, they represent the very idea of the IG: bad ass soldiers dying in pointless wars of attrition because that's how though the universe is.
Krieg don't use sheer numbers to outweigh the enemy, and are some of the best Guardsmen in the Imperium at siege warfare and melee combat.
However, they view their men just the same as they do ammunition: a resource that can be used to achieve a goal. Hence commanders have no issue sending men to their deaths so long as it is the most efficient means of achieving that goal.
I played Krieg, but the Elysians are my second favourite Guard regiment.
Steel Legion is still my favorite, I just always thought they looked cool when I was younger.
Hilariously I grew up and am now a mechanized infantryman in real life and absolutely despise being mechanized infantry.
What makes the Cadians probably the best all-round fighting force in the Imperium is because they're built very close the what a real-life army would look like. They're well equipped, well led, VERY well trained, and use flexible combined-arms tactics and disciplined fire control. Cadains are balanced across the board, and that makes them incredible in battle. Sure, there's better specialist regiments out there, but in nearly any category, you can't go wrong with Cadians.
I recall reading that they're basically the gold standard of guardsmen.
Regardless, there is a lot of specialization in the guard, especially planet to planet, so asking which is the most badass is something of a fruitless question if used broadly.
They're more like Cossacks. You might even argue that there's some hints of mongol-ish traditions in there.
What sucks so much about it, trips? You'd think a metal box would be more protective than footslogging.
It's mostly due to the M1126 ICV (Stryker) being a piece of fucking shit. It's an 8 wheeled, 11 man coffin. It constantly breaks down, axles snap, heaters and air conditioning never work when you need them too, electrical faults everywhere, water leaks in when it rains, it's loud as fuck so you can't sneak up on anybody since you can hear the damn thing 10km away, always gets stuck in mud and shit, transmissions explode on steep inclines. I could go on for hours about how garbage they are.
In addition to it's numerous mechanical issues, the DoD, in its infinite wisdom, decided that the Canadians were wrong so they removed the 25mm Bushmaster autocannon that the LAV III the Styker is derived from is equipped with and replaced it with a mount that takes either a Browning M2 .50 cal or a Mk19 40mm automatic grenade launcher.
This makes it suitable for soft targets, troops in the open, some structures, poorly built bunkers etc., out to about 2km, but it sucks for engaging the armored vehicles higher command loves to send us against in simulated combat environments. Most other nations have ICVs equipped with 30mm or 25mm autocannons that can easily punch through the paper thin armor of our Strykers, or we end up fighting tanks that can engage our vehicles from 4km away while our only response is to dismount a Javelin team in the hopes that we can engage them before they close the distance on us, but the Javelin, our only response to armored targets besides close air support only has an effective engagement range of about 2km.
TL;DR Version - Stryker is garbage, Army Mechanized Infantry doctrine when it comes to Stryker brigades is just as garbage.
I would literally rather walk and carry shit on my back, I'm a smaller target, leave a smaller footprint on the landscape and don't give away my position to any enemies within a 10km radius.
I'm kind of surprised nobody has said that their favorite was the Tanith First and Only yet. Well I'll be that guy... Gaunt's Ghosts are just so damn good.
You'd think the solution to that problem would be to fight en-masse, adding the autocannon back on, or to mix in some heavy armor in there. Shouldn't be sending carriers out on their own - they seem to be equipped more for defending the crew than actually adding much to the offensive.
I have a large amount of respect for the Welshmen, but it's hard to enjoy being the last regiment of them. If anyone other than Gaunt was in charge, they would've shattered early - and I've honestly gotten annoyed with the Commissars that won't shoot often.
Elysian Drop Troops gets my vote. They're pretty much the elite guardsmen that are specialized on rapid deployment on top of kicking massive ass with much better equipement and training than most regiments. The can afford to stay a few days without resupply and they're the guys to call if you want to get shit done. Their homeworld's filled with a bunch of scummy pirates too so, boarding operations are their forté. Pretty much what you get for a more "modern futuristic" take for guardsmen
One of the only few drawbacks is that they're in short supply and other regiments have far better armor support than they do.
>It constantly breaks down,
Horseshit, Strykers are plenty fucking reliable, provided you actually make the fucking soldiers do the proper PMCS. Too many people treat the damn things like a fucking Humvee and think it only takes a 5 minute PMCS, then blames the vehicle for breaking down.
Not nearly as big of a problem as people make it out. Most Axel snaps can be put on driver or Squad Leader error
>heaters and air conditioning never work when you need them too,
Being stationed in the desert, don't know shit about the heater's reliability, but the AC is usually on the fault of your contractor mechanic, he should know well enough to keep the replacement pumps for the AC in place if they're in the right environment. I thought the AC was shit too until I deployed and the mechanics out there actually kept the parts in stock, so fixing it when it did break was smooth and easy.
>electrical faults everywhere,
A huge portion of the electrical faults in the Stryker are it complaining about gear it can mount but you don't need. When it comes down to actual, deadline style faults, it's usually just fine.
>water leaks in when it rains,
Never had any issue in desert torrents. Trick was to actually maintain your hatch seals.
>it's loud as fuck so you can't sneak up on anybody since you can hear the damn thing 10km away,
Strykers were never designed to be quiet vehicles.
>always gets stuck in mud and shit,
Half the time it's driver error, but you are correct, when the bitches get stuck, they get fucking stuck. I remember getting mine stuck so deep I could stand taller than the drivers hatch opened. Good times.
>transmissions explode on steep inclines.
Poor PMCS and maintaining are usually the fault here. Only Tranny I've had blow was when we took over for 2nd ID and they had just destroyed the vehicles(among other shit, my personal opinion of 2nd ID isn't exactly great).
We maneuver as a company sized element or platoon sized element usually, though you are generally spread out to cover the most ground and have the best defensive or offensive posture you can manage.
There are 4 Strykers per platoon, two .50 cal trucks and two 40mm trucks. and 3 platoons per company, so it's quite a few vehicles.
>mix in some heavy armor in there
There is no heavy armor in Stryker brigades, only in Armored brigades, which are a mix of Abrams and Bradleys.
The brigade has Mobile Gun Systems, which are Strykers with 105mm cannons, but they can't be everywhere at once and are not organically attached to infantry companies. If we get caught by even light armored vehicles like a BMP-2, especially in open terrain, we are pretty much fucked.
>adding the autocannon back on
They are going to put 30mm Mk44 Bushmaster IIs on the new Strykers that they are rolling out, but nobody knows when our unit is going to actually get them. As much as I appreciate having a heavy weapon system like the M2 and Mk19 backing me up from the vehicle when we dismount, I'd love to have something that packs more punch.
>they seem to be equipped more for defending the crew than actually adding much to the offensive.
They supplement our firepower when we dismount, especially useful in urban environments, not that useful when we are in open terrain against another mechanized force.
I will say my experience was with double Vs, which were leaps and bounds better than the regular strykers. Based on talking around, even the singles I worked with were way better than the older ones.
I'll totally agree with you on the weapons issue, though I think that's a matter of the current war: Strykers were designed for fighting guriella actions, not force on force, and there's nothing that you need a 25mm cannon for. I do think the Stryker is going to see some serious redesign in the next 20 years to bring it back into line with what you're talking about though.
That's if they don't let some stupid asshole from airborne into the design process again. Seriously, who the fuck names the gunner position the VC? It makes zero fucking sense.
>The brigade has Mobile Gun Systems, which are Strykers with 105mm cannons, but they can't be everywhere at once and are not organically attached to infantry companies. If we get caught by even light armored vehicles like a BMP-2, especially in open terrain, we are pretty much fucked.
Wait, seriously? All three of our companies had their own MGS stryker with crew. They became battalion elements when we deployed, of course, but that happened when it became totally clear we had absolutely no use for them.
I'm in 2ID, that should give you a guess of what I have to deal with.
Our mechanics are ghosts, our vehicles never run, and we never have replacement parts.
Last time we went out to Yakima to train we lost 70% of our Strykers to general maintenance issues, HMS faults, flat tires with no replacements, DVE not working, shit like that. One vehicle we turned off one night and it never started again the rest of the time we were out there, it still doesn't start.
3 of my platoons 4 vehicles were deadlined, one with one broken axle, one with two broken axles and one with an HMS that no longer worked, and still doesn't 5 months later.
Nope, brigade gave all out MGS to the Cav guys, they are no longer attached at a company level in the battalion.
Holy shit man, that's fucking terrible. That is insane.
I mean, I know the pain of a hard deadline(got super lucky though, deadlined that bitch in NTC so didn't have to deal with it), but holy fuck.
The one thing I really didn't like about the Strykers was just how much upkeep they take since they have so much fancy shit in them(and how much of that upkeep is put on the Joe Snuffy they made the driver, which always pissed me off), but if you keep them up they're nice.
Still though, no offense, but I've never heard anything nice about 2ID, and my personal experiences were pretty fucking terrible. You fuckers left us black on gas and power on our COP for a week. There were failures on our end too, and fuck those guys too, but your fuelers fucked us.
Sucks. I like Washington and Ft. Lewis but I've hated my unit since the day I arrived. I have yet to see a sensible decision be made by anyone in a position of serious authority here.
I don't know why they'd send you in open terrain against another mechanized force - I'm no tactician, and any real knowledge I have of tactics is historical, but that seems vaguely suicidal without support.
This. Kriegers are near-suicidal and don't think much about saving lives. They'd rather save ammo and guns and such - which is great in theory, but it's hard to give up the man without giving up what he's carrying.
Even then, they'll spend years shelling a city when there's no longer any need to. They're inflexible about the chain of command. They're the best you can ask of a guardsman gone wrong. They're they Bartleby the Scrivener of the Imperial Guard - a perfect employee, a perfect machine, but one that breaks down and can't really be human.
They really snappily dressed tho. I love them in blue.
Fluffwise, it's not likely to happen. They'd have to get really scared, possibly in an otherworldly sense - they'd probably only retreat when ordered.
Like >>44639163 was saying, to quote from the Lexicanum:
>...unless explicitly ordered to do so a Krieg unit will continue to fight against an overwhelming foe until destroyed, even when retreat would be more tactically sound. The typical Krieg 'zeal' for engaging and destroying the enemy at any cost can sometimes earn short-term victories at the expense of long-term strategic goals, and their unique outlook on life has been known to cause friction between themselves and other non-Krieg units. For this reason Commissars, the only non-Krieg members of a Death Korps regiment, are present less to enforce the law and improve morale than to reign in the excesses of their unit and act as a tactical adviser to its officers, reminding them of the larger strategic picture, as well as providing liaison duties between regimental commands when needed.
>Officers right up to the regimental level typically fight on the front lines and equip themselves as such, an expression of the Krieg mentality that all Guardsmen must fight and die for the Emperor. Also in keeping with this mentality, these officers regard their men in the same way other commanders regard ammunition, something which has caused problems in cases where non-Krieg units are placed under the command of Krieg officers.
There was also a mentality in the story 'Dead Men Walking' that as long as a Krieger had managed one kill, they had done their duty and it didn't matter if they lived or died beyond that.
>Fluffwise, it's not likely to happen. They'd have to get really scared, possibly in an otherworldly sense - they'd probably only retreat when ordered.
Vraks has them break in a routine assault on an enemy position.
once again it depends on the author
I'm not really sure which assault you're talking about offhand, but would it happen to be the Assault on Mortuary Ridge? Because the Lexicanum makes that clear that in the middle of that assault, the Krieg Guardsmen were suddenly hit with drop pods and dreadclaws full of Chaos Beserkers.
Not only is it understating things to call that anything but how a routine assault normally goes, but I think that there's enough Chaos influence there that it would explain why they did not grimly fight to the last.
I imagine he's referring to the following quote (it's from the 40k Wiki, under "Day One" of "The Big Push"):
>Shells started to crash down into the advancing Krieg rank, as the defender's fire increased. As the artillery fire hammered down it caused the utter collapse of the 158th regiment's attack in sector 50-45. The Commissars amongst the retreating assault squads demanded that the men stand firm and push on, summarily executing the first men to take any steps backwards. In return, several Commissars were shot out of hand by their own side as the shredded assault companies scurried back to the safety of their own trenches. At the parapet the first wave collided with the second wave as they moved forwards to begin their advance. Fighting broke out as the officers of the second wave tried to force passage forwards. After only a couple hours the 158th regiment's attack had disintegrated into shambles. For the regiment's abject failure, the colonel and his staff would be arrested and eventually executed.
It does seem pretty out of character for them, considering their "thing" is that they've got that big collective deathwish. Then again 40k has never been very consistent with its lore.
It really does. Another Anon mentioned "Dead Men Walking". In that, they're portrayed as not only willing but actually eager to be killed in some useful manner. And they weren't fighting Chaos Guard, they were up against Necrons. Good book, by the way.
I mean, it's the sole exception in a three book series about them slowly and painfully grinding down an enemy in a siege considered far too bloody for any other guard regiment to sustain mentally and emotionally. For this one example, there's plenty of them walking into enemy fire and dying nearly to the man.
It's just there to showcase that while the Death Korps might be some crazy motherfuckers, they are still at the end of day just men, and men can panic and break, no matter how nihilistic they are.
Exuse me while i jump in from of the Emperor guardsmen.
Are selfmade regiments ok?
I once rolled up the Lenaian Rangers.
All female Guardsmen trained for urban combat while wearing a neat "stewardess" dress.
Their homeworld is a rather wealthy hive, mainly because it is a fuckhuge trade hub, where all kinds of rare goods and all of that jazz are loaded from ship to ship.
This however also leaves the planet with a massive problem: Organized crime.
As a counter measure the rich and influential traders of the world Lenaia decided to pool some resources together and buy the entire PDF to use them as a counter smuggling unit. Due to age old tradition the PDF was all female, and the tithe troops were all male.
The newly formed Lenaia Rangers were given high end gear as well as new training facilities. After enough intel was gathered and the location of a smuggler clear a team of Rangers was dispatched to breach the building/room/ship they were hiding in and capture/kill them.
Because the higher ups wanted to avoid spies and theft of equipment from the Rangers they only allowed members of the higher society to join.
That's pretty much it. The former tithe troops have been relegated to PDF, and the Lenaia Ranges are top tier breachers and urban combat units with fancy clothes.
The only skirt acceptable in combat is a kilt, because it actually allows you to easily move your legs around. A dress skirt as worn by a woman meanwhile will tightly hamper the movement of one's thighs, making crawling, crouching, running, etc nigh impossible.
The whole thing about the Kriegers is that they are essentially mass-produced vatgrown soldiers who are so obsessed with dying for the emperor that, yes, they are willing to throw themselves forward into a meatgrinder.
However, they are NOT Space Marines. They are still very capable of feeling fear and dread, even though their obsession with death and indoctrination means said fear and dread is often ignored, and psychological warfare is a bygone matter. However, training and indoctrination is not capable of physically rewiring a human mind, and although it is very hard and probably requires a set of circumstances to get them to fuck off, it is still possible for them to break and run. It's just that by the time they've been persuaded to bugger off involuntarily, you'd already have won even if they didn't run away.
I like that part about them they are vat grown factory made soldiers with the hope of war and death fighting and winning in the emperors name their nourishment. As their is no point fighting g if your not winning no matter the sacrifice.
Good point actually. I don't really care what they are used for, I just though that the entire "properly dressed battle bitch will fuck your shit up" thing was kind of cool.
Maybe just use them as regimental guards for high value targets the higherups of Lenaia wanted to make sure don't get killed/assasinated by the smugglers. Their deployment would require them to be dressed properly, and since assasination attempts usually don't last that long and don't require too much crouching/crawling the skirt should be fine.
Maybe I just need to grow up and put some pants on.
Catachans make Cadians look like babies, I don't see how there's any arguing against that. I mean, if I had to follow someone's orders I'd pick a Cadian officer's, but that has nothing tomdo with badassness.
Reminder that Kasrkins are also Cadians.
Steel Legion and Harakoni Warhawks as a close second, then Cadians.
For the Steel Legion first and mostly i'm a sucker for their looks and the mechanised doctrine, plus they fighted some really serious shit on their homeworld and pushed back not only one, but three times against the forces of Chaos and the Green Tide.
Harakoni Warhawks because the idea of heavy armed drop trops dropping behind enemy lines while hitting hard and fast is really great.
And Cadians because what's not to love about them? The fact that Cadia still stands is a testament of their greatness!
That was exactly what I meant when I said they're willing to throw themselves forward into a meatgrinder. Without hesitation, I mind you.
However, it is still very possible, and canonical, for them to be broken. You just have to hope for a blue moon and something really, REALLY fucking horrifying, so much so that it would make Robocop shit himself.
how many Cadians have been corrupted by the 13th black crusade?
Never heard about that, only time I ever read about Agrippa was when I made pic related from a text I found somewhere.
Gotta read up on that.
Unfortunately they get jobbed all the fucking time for being reasonable. "Hey look at these operator as fuck competent dudes get their shit kicked in, this guy is srs business".
It probably goes:
Then it is probably the Steel Legion. All the popular ones are kind of on the same level here. The Elysians would be kind of high up, but they seem to be a bit of a whipping boy always lose force like the RG.
In the top five, the Catachan ones are the most absurd. They are basically space rambo and vietnam so all their stories are ridiculous small squad takes on over whelming odds. Kasrkin are all SF dudes and Cadia is already pretty tough so it makes sense they get a high spot. Kriegers being VAT grown and then trained almost robots is a cool back story. Their willingness to achieve objectives at all costs makes them pretty scary adversaries. Tanith comes next because of their extreme always in the fight histroy + their mary sue status.
Cadia basically represents the top standard military. Very well trained with flexible doctrine. Their storyline is impressive, but it doesn't reach the ridiculous levels of the others. There are plenty of other regiments that have the we train from birth theme. They are of course no slouches and deserve a high rank in the top five.
it's a shame since like Warhawks, they need all the help they can get at the time to make a push since their strategies and doctrine works as both air and infantry support for much larger regiments. Combined arms are very important in how they work. they can win battles but not wars alone in this case, especially when they're lead by retard commanders
they'll fit right in with Tau in this case
I always think it's weird how many people actually like every single Imperial commander being an absolute moron. IMO most commanders are decent, some are great, some are awful. Some run into shit they just can't handle. But on average the Imperium does reasonably well, while fighting inhuman monstrosities. And blatant idiots will generally be eliminated by the pressures of war or by high command getting fed up with them wasting the emperor's resources.
Plus, if the Imperium is fairly good at winning battles or wars, but is still slowly losing the galaxy, it makes it even grimmer.
here anon, have some female skirted soldiers from glorious China...
Honestly, got a big hard on for elysian drop troops. They frequently get dropped in to secure a beach head for follow on forces and often end up facing off against heavily fortified positions with nothing but whatever equipment they managed to strap to themselves before dropping. No heavy armor, no arty support. I can relate to that shit.
Yup. I never liked the whole "most guardsman are conscripted" thing. Conscripts make poor soldiers, even the Soviets knew that. I understand that when you're fighting on a galactic scale, you're gonna need to conscript people, but you'd be better off using them as support rather than frontline fighting. You do NOT want to rely on random assholes to hold a position, you want dedicated professionals there. If you want a real world comparison, look up the performance for conscripted soldiers and volunteers in Vietnam. Even when training and equipment is controlled for, volunteers always performed better. When I was a grunt in the Marines, we'd occasionally get guys that straight up did not want to be there. For whatever reason, they got to the unit and just didn't want to be in the military anymore. Cold feet, second thoughts, realizing they are absolute shit at it, etc. You know what we did with them? We'd stick em in a support role as a truck driver, admin guy, or just shuffle em to head quarters company and let them find a use for them. They ate up a slot for a rifleman, but I'd rather have an empty spot in my squad over someone who's deadweight.
Personally, I think that's a result of exageration.
On Catachan, the wildlife's so deadly, to go out you need a flak vest. This became known as the Catachan T-Shirt, and so the legend became that the Catachan soldiers go into battle with just a T-shirt on.
They're also the ones who call the lasgun a flashlight (Nights so dark you need a lasgun just to see), and they have similar names for all their gear:
Photovisors - Catachan sunglasses.
Powerfist - Catachan glove.
Machete - Catachan knife.
I seem remember reading that a Kasrkin is actually capable of fighting a Space Marine/chaos marine and has about a 50/50 chance of pulling it off. That true, or is it just pure fluff?
>Catachan soldiers go into battle with just a T-shirt on
The bare chest does count as flak armor.
I mean, Catachan Devils are supposed to be able to do it as well, though the only ones I can think of being able to do it is Harker, Marbo and Straken.
Hell, Straken has, by canon, killed a CSM Champion solo(he had the element of surprise, granted, but yea)
I have some questions about Vostroyans, since they're pretty unique as far as regiments go.
Will they ever settle down after the conquest of a world and become the ruling government, or will they continually fight on and get reinforcements from Vostroya?
If you included women at all, would they be volunteers, first born daughters, or replacements for first-born sons who could not serve (death, injury, ect)?
Is it possible for another regiment to have arms or equipment from Vostroya, or is everything produced on Vostroya only for Vostroyan regiments?
>Is it possible for another regiment to have arms or equipment from Vostroya, or is everything produced on Vostroya only for Vostroyan regiments?
They are probably intended to be but administratum mix ups would prevent that.
This seems like a good place to ask,
What are some Imperial Guard regiments that are similar to Cadians in appearance (color and/or armor) but not Cadians?
I was looking at starting an AM army, and was looking for ideas.
>If you included women at all, would they be volunteers, first born daughters, or replacements for first-born sons who could not serve (death, injury, ect)?
Given that Vostroya seems to be heavily steeped in tradition and places great importance upon family and lineage I would say that they wouldn't send women out to the regiments at all - if they aren't firstborn, why would they be packed off to a firstborn regiment?
But if you absolutely had to, I would make them women that are unable to bear children for whatever reason that attempt to make up for being unable to provide a firstborn son to die for the Emperor by cutting out the middleman. They would be their own separate regiments and probably looked down upon by other Vostroyans as second class soldiers that aren't a 'true' Vostroyan regiment.
>or is everything produced on Vostroya only for Vostroyan regiments?
I know their lasguns are hand-crafted heirlooms passed down from son to son, so I would say that all standard kit is produced on Vostroya for Vostroyans.
>been hurting for meltas and flamers ever since our veteran squads traded them to a local sister's convent for.....something they don't seem to keen on sharing though
>Quartermaster said we'll be getting something special in our resupply drop tommorow
>It's more lasguns
Most regiments follow a Cadian pattern - their style of arms and armor have become popular throughout the Imperium, so they're pretty famous.
If you wanted a specific regiment, try the Brimlock Dragoons.
Technological goods are produced on basically every planet to a certain degree, including in Hives. I remember one battle on Armageddon where the Steel Legion fought a battle inside a giant vehicle factory within a hive and turned the tide with an armoured thrust with vehicles so new they hadn't even got primer on.
It seems to be assumed that most planets are mostly self-sufficient when it comes to machines and technology, and they rely on Forge Worlds for very complex, very large or specialist equipment.
Savlar chem dogs.
I love the fact that they just nick everything and generally don't give a fuck.
Praetorian Guard. The idea of re-enacting Zulu with Orks resonates with me on some deep level, I guess. I'd make an army of them with those lovely Victoria Miniatures kits if I could afford it.
What about these dudes? Can't find anything about them.
The Kaledon Hunters
I did some digging and found two regiments that are both supplied with Vostroyan-manufactured equipment - the Petrostok Besiegers and the Stalinvast Grenadiers. It's literally just a line or two, but it's enough.
Savlar are jawsome, But that is a Drookian Fen trooper comrade https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Drookian_Fen_Guard
They're essentially Scottish feral worlders that live on a big misty swamp planet and they kick arse at guerrilla fighting.
White Dwarf did a whole bunch of little regiment like this back in the day. Necromundan "taruntulas" and the Finreht Highlanders (pictured)
No, they wouldn't settle down. They get a constant stream of reinforcements from Vostroya.
Women aren't included. If there is no firstborn son, they don't have to go. Now, if there's a firstborn son and he dies, does the second son get bumped up to firstborn? Who knows. I would imagine not.
It's possible, but Vostroyan gear is carefully crafted, so there's not lots of it compared to a lasgun make pumped out by a forgewolrd.
>not a single mention of the Tallarn Desert Raiders
Propably imperial propaganda. Although, in crunch their extra bright flashlights ignore power armor.
Women firstborn aren't obliged to join up, hence any that do join are giving a degree of respect as they have done so entirely voluntarily.
Can't remember where I read that though.
What's the Sardaukar regiment?
Or are Sardaukar space marines?
I get that Fremen are the "good guys" but I always liked the Sardaukar because they're radioactive aryan-Nazi super soldiers
And they're like a weird mix between popular conception aryan (officers are blonde) and original conception aryan because Burseg (a rank) is Iranian or something.
The Tallern Desert Raiders always gave me a 'Lawrence of Arabia in SPAAACE' vibe, not Dune. It also fits better when you consider that most of the other Guard regiments tend to be heavily inspired by various real-world militaries throughout history.
The tragedy of their self sacrificing tendencies mirrors the World War One aesthetic they carry. But I think the fact their entire goal in life is death on the battlefield coupled with the constant exposure to horrible conditions from their home planet to the trenches of siege warfare would probably make them a cut above even the Cadians.
To be honest, I got that as well.
Imperial Guard are usually post-modern militaries whilst Space Marines are pre-modern military cultures or mythologies.
I just really really like Sardaukar, maybe sexually I'm still thinking it over.
The Guard also have quite a few pre-modern cultures represented in their ranks. These two pages from an old codex do a really good job of illustrating just how varied the Imperial Guard is; it's a shame they don't do things like this any more.
And the second one. I bet the Gharkas could give the Catachans a run for their money.
I don't play guard, but the amerigo guard are my fave.
>regiment made specifically for urban combat and breaching
>it's all women wearing skirts and shirts using ridiculously long lasguns
Similar but not the same. A large portion of the population stays on cadia, however they serve as PDF. A portion of the population needs to stay behind so they can keep pumping out more cadians.
You do know that the Scions are just copyrightable-branded Stormtroopers, right? They've been doing the Elysian's thing before Elysians existed.
You know what's amazing? On the box for the Catachan command squad, the Company Commander (who ALWAYS comes with Carapace armour) is simply wearing a Cadian-style flak vest over his abs.
Yeah I miss the mark bedford stormies. I like the scions but I wish they had just made those in plastics instead.
It kind of triggers me that FFG had female vostroyan art done when their fluff specifically says only first born sons are sent to war. I think if they could get away with it they'd have female space marines too.
I know there was a female medic in the novel Commissar, and they made the case that all women in the Firstborn were volunteers and thus were more respected.
I never enjoyed that idea as much as them being replacements for first-born sons who could not serve. Vostroya is an industrial world with a lot of factories - accidents could happen. And it seems to keep in mind with that mindset of paying for the ancient sin that Vostroya committed - a family would not want to be unable to pay their tithe just because their son had lost an arm in a factory accident.
And if you're not going to have them serve in the Firstborn, I could see Vostroya having its own Sister of Battle order. There was a saint who visited Vostroya at one point, the Grey Lady, Saint Nadalya, though I don't really know what she did.
I don't know what makes them different culturally, but I know the Harakoni are equipped more like storm troopers - they have carapace armor and tend to use plasma guns or heavy bolters, if not lasguns. The Elysians tend to be more lightly equipped, especially in terms of armor.
Taros Campaign = Dien Bien Phu or Op: Market-Garden
Truth be told, I suppose they're more an amalgamation of all airborne troops, but I've always done mine with a distinct French slant.
I've got a kind of... rivalry between the French Elysians, who epitomize maneuverability and self-inititiative, versus the German(Yes, I know they're both World Wars together) Krieg who epitomize slow crushing assaults and self-sacrifice for the machine that is the Guard.
RPGs, but yeah. They also speak not!French.
Then again, I wave off similar cultures such as the Krieg and Steel Legion as planets being colonized by different countries before everything kinda went to shit.
Why would it need to be defended?
Its 1 of a billion billion producers of imperial troops, and offers no other output that is useful to the Imperium.
I had believed the Catachans were meant to be the most hard core light infantry / guerrilla force within the imperium with unequalled stealth and sniping abilties, but then I found out about Tanith and they seem designed to 1up Catachan.
The Catachans are probably still better than the Tanith about fighting in jungles. They also seem to make very good survivalists who can have survived on their own without much reinforcement for years at a time, where the Tanith is constantly having to take in new recruits and because of its totally focus on being a light infantry regiment, is not really meant to be fighting on its own.
God, that book was so mediocre that it hurt.
>'Good guy' Commissar
>Chaos psyker that had nothing to him, but kind of showed up at the end
>Imperial Guard novel where NO ONE dies
Granted it had some good things, like the prisoners who join up and the descriptions of Vostroyan military, but damn it was hard to look past the grime. You could have replaced the main character with a Lieutenant and there wouldn't have been a difference.
Tanith are not made for straight guerilla. They're good at it, but the only real example of that is Gereon, where only the best of the regiment were taken (and even then someone should have died, was kind of shitty that everyone made it out of the MOST DANGEROUS PLANET EVER). Tanith are only really good at mid range fights and supporting large scale battles. The times when they've been on their own as a regiment (The temple of the Saint in Book 4, some of the fights in not!Stalingrad in book 3) they won, but got their asses seriously handed to them in the meantime. That's not to say that they're bad, they've done some great things. But as another anon said, there's a reason that they've had to get reinforcements a few times.
Catachans are the best at guerilla warfare, no question about it. But to counter your argument, I would put Tanith on par with the more skilled catachan regiments. Not better than the best that they have.
Civilized worlds are worlds that are much like modern day Earth. They have a decently sized population and industry, but nothing to compare to a Hive or Forge world. They are the most numerous worlds in the Imperium.
I know exactly how you feel. The only reason I ever picked it up was because it was dealing with the Vostroyans, but it wasn't really bolterporn and it didn't get a good grimdark feeling like I like - like you said, no one with a name died, and I've gotten really annoyed with the Commissars that won't shoot anyone.
The only really interesting things in it were the prison ecosystem - rain indoors is pretty cool, and there were those unique sentinels and open-topped chimeras - and the stuff specifically about the Vostroyans, like the quasi-feudal system of familial obligations and the fact that rahzvod was actually brought up. Also the Chem Dog girl, she was nice.
There is one aptly named Iron Guard. Personally I think that you can take any regiment and shove it in there and the story wouldn't be different, but there is some small shit about Mordian. Also it has an amazing Commissar in it.
Agreed - it's a great 40k book, and it has a near-perfect Commissar, but it's not especially good at making the Iron Guard stand out. If you can get it, it's well worth the read.
Most you really get is a brief look at what Mordia is like, and what the Iron Guard is like - their uniforms, doctrine, outlook, stuff like that. But again, brief. It's not trying to go in depth or make them stand out from the average regiment.
My Commissar told me those were just exaggerated stories...although I can't seem to find him anymore. Has anyone seen him?
Not really a guard, but i take Solar Auxilia as my favourite. Being best of the best of the imperial colection of badass normal without become a walking mary sue is awesome. And the fifties style void marines aesthetic is really cool.
Also, they are really well sculpted, able go toe to toe with other models range like infinity.
That's nice and all, but can they do all that while naked?
Woad Warriors: 1
Pussy Cadian/Krieger Shits: 0
Not much that I can tell you can't find online somwhere. Vostroya is an Industrial world (between a hive and a forge world) ruled by a mix of planetary governers and mechanicus personnel called the Techtriarchy. Back during the Horus Heresy the planet refused to join in the fight, insisting on giving munitions, and after that they've been offering every first born son of their people to fight in the Emperor's armies as penance.
The nobility make up the officers, the lower class make up the foot soldiers and NCOs. There's a complicated line of family alliances that spread across systems that aren't even on Vostroya, so planetary governers worlds away can be part of a Vostroyan clan. They have hand-made arms and armor, plenty of vehicles, and often carry rebreathers. Most Vostroyans serve in their PDF fighting against mutants in collapsed parts of Vostroya, so they have some combat experience even before shipping out. They drink rahzvod, which is like vodka but ten times stronger, and for some Vostroyans not having a mustache is throwing away your right to manhood. They have a fighting style called ossbohk-vyar. Their regiments are constantly replenished with new troops from Vostroya, instead of getting ground into nothing like most regiments. They worship a saint called Nadalya, the Grey Lady.
There's a very nice warseer thread about the Vostroyans that you can check for more details than you can usually find on a wiki.
They're a Forge World thing as a part of their Horus Heresy series.
No one wants to talk about guard, that's okay.
>Sir! The whole thread is collapsing, and we have no reinforcements left to muster!
>What about the Space Marines? The Sororitas!
>Holding their own threads, sir, with no chance to give aid. There's strife over the primarchs and God-Emperor knows what else. We're alone.
>Guardsmen of the 404th Anonymity! We keep this thread from the hands of the Archive Enemy for as long as we possibly can! Do your duty for the Emperor! If they take this thread from us, consecrate it with our blood and bury our bodies in it, so this forgotten thread shall be forever the Imperium!
>Krieg sees Monolith in the distance
>Krieg uses *Equip Bayonets!*
>It's supper effective
>I can never really see Krieg as badass
Salvar if I'm in a 70s mood. Tallarn if I'm not because brown girls
I went through Basic Combat Training. In ten weeks I learned the basic battle drills necessary to be a half-competent soldier. I learned marksmanship, squad formations, navigation, setting up a patrol base, and combatives 1, among other basics. That's just nine weeks of BCT, and some of those only required a week of training.
Infantry and other Combat arms jobs go through OSUT, which is BCT: Director's Cut. In less than half a year, they can make one of the most effective soldiers in history with nothing more than a horny young adult and three angry drill sergeants. Special Forces training is longer, but they don't spend it marching up and down a road and shooting targets.
In the Army there are countless schools you can go too throughout your career as a soldier. Combatives 3 and 4, sniper and designated marksman, airborne, air assault, ranger, etc. My drill sergeant, who has kicked in his first door while I was still pushing myself in bed, can shoot his weapon from almost any position, even on his back.
How is this relevant?
A Cadian trains for years, from childhood to adulthood. He doesn't just spend that timber practicing the same skills; he branches out, learning more than the basics. His instructors teach him everything from the simple too the advanced, building on previous training and expanding their trainee's skill set. By the time he's eighteen a Cadian, both as fit and as trained as three rangers.
The best of the best in the IA at the time of the Horus Heresy.
Actually, my regiment best regiment.
42nd Cydraxian Pathfinders or bust, yo.
Fighting naked is inviting heresy.
Fighting clad in undies made of litanies and purity seals is inviting THE EMPEROR'S GLORY
Maybe I'm just a contrarian cunt, but I hate the Kriegers, and the people who wank them, they represent nothing properly of their prussian -austro-hun german mentors
>krieigers die in droves for assaults
>Germans hold high ground and dig in, suffering minimal casualties while maximising death to opposition, then hold COORDINATED assaults spearheaded by elite stürmtruppen
>281,000 german casualties
>Kriegers don't look like the super efficient Germans they should be
>As if Vraks lasted 3 days
>Krieg also Krieg while mounted. Suck it up Tallarns.
But they're not JUST Germanics.
They're WWI French and WWII Soviets as well.
French-influence is shown on the uniform, and the Ragnarok is clearly based on the KV-2. Both armies had a habit of suffering heavy casualties during assaults.
I am a contrarian cunt, but I do agree. They're obnoxiously grimderp - not in a cool parody way.
What probably left me bitter was that Forgeword's rules for them were stronger than normal Imperial Guard at one point, with everyone and their mother having a Krieg army.
You're right...that means they were Verdun BOTH sides.
Here's a Commissar (soviet officer) besides a german with a french hat. Although yeah, everyone is like Commander Chenkov
Even I agree they're exceedingly grimderp. Actually I think individual Cadian soldiers are some of the most skilled guardsmen. Kriegers have more WS, but Cadians reroll ones to shoot and have better stuff than Krieg's obsolete crap, and that's more useful.
vostroyans just have the best lasguns and maybe better than average basic body armour, eveything else like vehicles, special weapons etc. they are nothing special.kriegers have less bodies than many other hives, propably even including cadia, they are more about the moral and siege shtick. Cadians are only especially skilled if you compare full companies, including recruits. its not that every cadian is better than the average veteran company, its just that even their recruits are pretty experienced.
Vostroyans will pass down their equipment for generations of guardsmen. In theory, that means anything from a lasgun to a tank could stay in the regiment for thousands of years. I can't argue if they're handmade, like the lasguns and special weapons are, but in 40k, the older something is, the better it usually is.
You're right about the Kriegers - they can muster a fair amount of bodies, but they're best at holding a siege and getting the right equipment for ruthlessly breaking an enemy down.
Cadians I can't fully speak for, but they're a disciplined and ready force meant to take on whatever comes out of the Eye of Terror - including Chaos Space Marines. They might have specialized training most regiments wouldn't. Even then, Cadians get a lot of experience, since many of them do more than just guard Cadia - they go out in crusades or fight against the Archenemy on other fronts. They're also apparently pretty damn good marksmen - makes sense when you've been using a lasgun for decades.