Interview with Rick Priestley (creator of Warhammer and 40k.)
>Before he ever joined Games Workshop, Rick Priestley had developed a science fiction game.
>“It was called Rogue Trader,” he said.
>“It was a ship-based game, and I’d created a range of models to go with it. And even though I’d joined Games Workshop to answer the phone and put toy soldiers into cardboard boxes, it was always on the understanding that they’d eventually get round to producing this game.
>“But the reaction to Warhammer was so successful that everybody wanted to do a science fiction version. In fact, I’d been working on science fiction rules and variants in the journals we kept while we were working on the first edition, so the intent was there from very early on.”
>Priestley left Games Workshop in 2010, almost three decades after the release of the original Warhammer. He said he’d grown increasingly disillusioned with the direction the company was taking.
>“I was the head of the creative department, and they weren’t doing anything creative any more,” he said.
>“The role I had in the studio was with staff working on game development and design, and they’d pretty much decided that game development and design wasn’t of any interest to them. The current attitude in Games Workshop is that they’re not a games company, it’s that they’re a model company selling collectibles. That’s something I find wholly self-deceiving and couldn’t possibly agree with.”
Another interview. This time with Ian Livingstone (the founder of Games Workshop.)
>“We were desperate not to let Gygax know that we were running the company from our flat,” Livingstone said.
>“But what we didn’t know at the time was that he was publishing Dungeons & Dragons from his flat as well. Both parties were assuming that the other was some big-time operation, but it was very much a fledgling industry at the time.”
>MFW I discovered my love for WHFB a few months after Age of Sigmar hit
Who is this Rick Priestly poser? What a faggot little bitch. Age of Sigmar is a tight ruleset with the best looking models on earth. That's a scientific fucking fact. He can go jack off to his charts and tables. I'll take a tight, well crafted game like Age of Sigmar over all that Warhammer bullshit you guys jack off to.
better than discovering it a few months before
I was just thinking I might get back into WHFB before AoS hit. Thank god I didn't buy anything; but I guess there must be people out there who weren't so lucky. Can you imagine dropping several hundred dollars on WHFB, spend god knows how many hours getting your army assembled and painted, and then be finally ready to play someone only for GW to announce that they're dropping the whole thing? I mean, I know you can still find WHFB players, but that's a kick in the nuts right there
Interesting about excessive print runs almost bankrupting the company, especially with specialist games. I can see why they got scared.
Also, I think he's being a little disingenuous at times. Brian Ansell pushed warhammer as a mass battle game not because of creative vision but to make money, and he's a visionary, but Kirby pushes for profit and it's greed? Maybe just rose-tinted goggles, I dunno.
You can use the minis and the ancient setting. After six, and the 7th power creep in the codex or the fucking bad 8th edition paired with increasing prices was the last straw to me, thank good there are lot of other games to play, skirmishing or otherwise out there.
Hey! This might not be the right place to ask this, but I can't for the life of me find any remnants of the WHFantasy generals that used to plague /tg/, so I'll ask here anyway
Do you people know a good place to get recasts for Fantasy models?
I want to get more models but I no longer feel the urge to give GWS my money after AoS.
Gamezone has a good line of Not-Warhammer models.
I don't think any recasters did the rank and file models though. Just characters and big models.
Ask the 40kfags for current recaster links to check though, its been awhile since I looked.
GW really didn't kill anything but online communities and new players (=their own revenue)
all my club still plays WHFB, noone plays sigmar. basically nothing changed for us except that the online forums are dead, but most of us have not read them anyways
so just find the people, and play the game. one thing tho, don't buy from GW, let them die, get your models from ebay or based chinaman (it will even be cheaper)
Holy shit, an actual FB player.
Any advice on O&G? I really like Savage Orcs and want to put together an army that's at least functional. What's the least number of non-Savage things I need to be at least modesty competitive? I don't expect to be HE tier but want to at least have a chance at like mid tier-ish range.
>I don't think any recasters did the rank and file models though
I never understood this. Wouldn't offering large amounts of rank and file minis be beneficial for both parties? Players/consumers get the saving, and recasters get the extra dough?
What a faggot poser you are. Rick was the best thing that ever happened to GW and he wrote everything. Age of Sigmar is vomit stew and is the last gasp of a failing franchise that abused its most creative writers.
The only thing you can't really leave out are goblin warmachines (doom diver and rock lobber especially) + mangler squigs, otherwise you'll be fine. pretty tough tho, as they really went into the combined arms directions with the greenskins, ie they work best as orcs+goblins+trolls. The skull savage orc extra hand weapon big uns are the best unit in the book btw, so you can build your army around them and be fine
So do you need Lobber AND Divers?
Are Snotlings, pump or swarm, necessary?
Is there a way for Mangler Squigs to not be a Night Goblin thing in lore? Or are all Manglers exclusively Night Gobbo?
all squigs are tied to night goblins, just like spiders to forest goblins. snotlings aren't necessary at all
with that said, you can proxy everything. like one of our guys uses old mounted daemonette models as chaos knight in his slaaneshi force. make suicidal savage orc fanatics who catapult themselves into the enemy hacking and slashing everyone they hit before death, and use the doom diver rules. or just make the savage orcs fire sissy goblins into the enemy (the rock lobber already has an orc supervising the goblins, just make a model for the doom diver too)
>cancel Rick Priestley's alternate FW end times
>just so they can do their own
>“The studio, the creative part of Games Workshop, had always >been kept apart from the sales part of it. One thing Bryan said was >that if the sales people got to be in charge of the studio, it would >destroy the studio, and that’s exactly what happened.”
Reminds me of the steve job interview about sales people and design people.
Pretty clear that priestly is right, see age of sigmar, the creative effort is the very definition of sub-par.
Priestly is working for Warlord Games, others have their own stuff. Alessio is inflicting his rules systems on multiple companies via his own production team, the Perry twins have long had their own miniatures range, pretty much everyone is somewhere doing things still.
You can make up for the lack of creativety on the part of the design team with your own! Infinite realms! Infinite stories all at your fingertips! Anything goes!
You could try reading the article; it ends with a bit about how Priestly's new company is doing after he left.
It's called Warlord Games, and their big line is the spacey Gates of Antares
The thing is that Ansell knew the company had to make money,but he also had vision beyond just money. He allowed people to run their specialist things and take risks to see what can keep people in GW's orbit beyond the basic games.
Kirby likes to play the straight-talker, but he's afraid of risk. When GW hits any bumps, he doesn't change course, he turtles up and cuts loose anything that isn't core 40k. He's not CEO anymore, but you can see he's still leaning on the rest of management.
Why doesn't GW just license another IP that will print money?
Game of Thrones, Star Wars, and now Walking Dead are taken, but they could still do Warcraft. Blizzard won't say no, and Metzen will probably just take his share in models with viking helmets while Samwise demands sexy Orc men.
They did that with LotR, made a ton while experimenting with less piecemeal models and different rules.
The thing was that the designers and Ansell knew that it would be a balloon, only profitable as long as the Jackson movies were coming out. Sure enough, it faded, but then GW had a bunch of the sales side people (who by know made up a lot of management and investors) freaking out and demanding something be done because they couldn't sell any more LotR. This was about the time Priestly started stepping back and looking for a way out, and Ansell started looking for a buyer, because the company had mutated beyond recognition.
Does AoS have regular people?
I remember hearing vaguely about how the armies are fighting for or protecting some folks, but do the regular guys have actual kingdoms, with homes and markets and orchards and cows and rivalries and trade routes and podunk villages that celebrate harvest festivals and all that all other shit? Is it at all possible to play WFRP in AoS?
Let's remember the time where you could read Rick, Alessio and Andy telling stories about the hobby every month in your White Dwarf because it wasn't a glorified sales pamphlet. A time where the hobby wasn't fully a commodity and the hobbyist weren't only customers.
I'm too young to feel old.
>but do the regular guys have actual kingdoms, with homes and markets and orchards and cows and rivalries and trade routes and podunk villages that celebrate harvest festivals and all that all other shit? Is it at all possible to play WFRP in AoS?
ISn't mantic made be plenty of GW expats too? The minis are very variable but I like those guys, they are pretty open about anything of the company. Warlord is pretty good too, and guys don't forget Avatars of War,Paniagua made his own company and has very good minis too.
Yes, but they've only been past tense casualties or the origin of Sigmarines so far.
2016 preview promises the state of Dorfs, High Elves, O&G/OK, VC/TK, then finally Dark Elves and Morathi's Daemons.
Also, everything is tribal now. There's capitals in each plans that are like element-themed Asgard and everything else is like the Dark Sun D&D setting.
Kinda wish KoW was a bit more friendly to fluff and hobby players. I didn't really want a "warmahordes" take on WHFB, but this is kind of all I have. Except for Frostgrave, but that's a completely different type of game.
>more friendly to fluff and hobby players
It lets you use whatever fluff and models you like, how is that not friendly?
Mantic could never give us The Old World no matter how good a setting they made so its hardly going to be a replacement in that respect.
>Is it at all possible to play WFRP in AoS?
Not easily, but yeah, of course. There isn't a lot of depth in the material on the different mortal realms at the moment, so you might need to brew a lot on your own steam, but it's definitely doable.
These hit me right in the feels. I started playing Back when during WHFB 5th and 40k 3rd. Got out because of school and reasons.
I've read the rules and seen the changes and have ben disheartened at what I've seen Warhammer, in its entirety, become.
While I have read that specialist games will be returning, I fear it may be too little too late. I would like to see this game last another forty years, but would be surprised if it lasts another ten.
Makes me sad, /tg/.
>“I really must protest, in the strongest possible terms, about the appalling cover of issue 44. When are we going to see the end of these chainmail bikinis, for heaven’s sake? Not only are they sexist, they are dumb. No female adventurer with an ounce of brains would go monster-chasing in that kind of outfit.”
There wasn't a chainmail bikini though, infact there wasn't a bikini...
Old White Dwarf was a real hobbyist magazine. They did book reviews and talked about all kinds of game and just shot the shit. The transition to being just a marketing tool was kinda rough, but I enjoyed it for a stretch when it was lots of battle reports, rules varieties, and painting workshops. It was trying to get my money, but it remembered to put a nice wrapper on it.
They didn't even tell Creative Assembly they were axing WHF. I imagine it took a while to set up the deal, and CA is always lousy when it comes to dev time (and the quality of release products), so the rug got pulled out from under them.
So has anyone played Priestley's latest game Beyond the Gates of Antares?
How is it?
Lovely minis, good metal and only the heads separate; beautiful and easy work to paint, nicer that the fiddly GW models of late.
The game is pretty smooth, though I don't have experience at large-scale battles. It might break down there, but it's enjoyable if you only invest for a small number of minis.
>While I have read that specialist games will be returning, I fear it may be too little too late.
To be honest if someone is going to save games workshop then its the FW team, because they are the only ones that seem to care and have some semblance of creativity and leeway to express that creativity in great looking miniatures and amazing rules and books.
Scratch the 'amazing' (they're still working with GW rules after all) and agreed.
But, gotta wait to see if whatever they're trying is actually worth a damn, because fuck taking anything from GW on faith regards to quality.
Inflicting? I always liked Alessio. Thought he was one of the better writers. Are his rules systems that bad?
I just have an insane bugbear about his insistence on true line of sight mechanics, and am pretty meh about how his historical systems rarely manage to capture much flavour for the thing they cover due to the typically very game-y nature of his systems.
He's done some great stuff, and I'll always praise him for making the Empire in 6th edition warhammer (and that as well) not only balanced, but fun and competitive to play a completely balanced army with (village idiot tactica for life yo). But he also appears to be in more than half the major releases for non-GW games (half of Warlord's stuff, Mantic's almost everything, plenty of others besides) of the past few years so am getting kinda saturated with his work.
Ya that game was sucking the oxygen out of game shops for a while.
I dont know about those other games but you are right about the 6th edition Empire book, that army really was a masterwork. 6th edition High Elves were a work of art, did he do them also?
That was Jake Thornton and Space McQuirk.
On an unrelated note Alessio, the Perry Brothers and Brian Nelson all played Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pelennor fields in the Return of the King film.
Much as FWs intense focus on 40K irks me, I know that it's what they need to do financially.
Plus I'll always be happy that they revived the Chaos Dwarfs.
I can't even begin to count the times I have watched a company crash and burn because they gave marketing the reins. Obviously as a business you want to make money, but giving leeway to a department whose sole purpose is to focus on the short term and push product is such a well documented bad idea yet people still do it anyway.
Cause companies exist to make money. And the suits and shareholders think sales people in charge will generate more sales.
The irony is that what makes any company successful in the first place is their product and not their marketing, so consequently they end up cutting out their own heart when they push the creative talent out of the company.
I don't know dude we just herd it from Rick Priestly that the problem wasn't with Specialist games (once believed to be the big financial bogeyman). It was that GW simply couldn't get their logistics shit together.
Why is it that marketing always fucks things up besides their numbers? Is it because they're just borderline autistic number crunches who don't use the creative side of their brain? How can somebody be so disconnected and stupid to create the current GW situation?
>Why is it that marketing always fucks things up besides their numbers?
Because they get the first and the last say on everything, and if hamstringing your creative teams will shave a quarter of a percent off the budget that is the decision.
>How can somebody be so disconnected and stupid to create the current GW situation?
People have been proclaiming the imminent collapse of GW constantly for the last 15 years. They're still here. They've been competent enough to keep going and to continue producing products to a high quality.
If that list they released recently about their best-selling miniatures is true, and Smaug really was their best-selling model, then they are probably right from a financial perspective to be a model company and not a gaming company.
>They've been competent enough to keep going and to continue producing products to a high quality.
Nah. They just don't have enough competition.
Stupidly enough after kicking WHFB they dipped their toes into the skirmisher market, which is huge atm and offer mostly better value for smaller prices in comparison to AoS.
So we'll see how that turns out.
And since GW mostly does Space Marines and FW now mostly does Space Marines too, I have my doubts about long term sustainability of that too. Sure SM were always the No1 seller, but they were also the first army most people collected. Implying they started a second one. I think 40k as a whole lost a lot of it's appeal over the last few years due to the shift in focus to ever bigger kits and games to now being dominated by Space Marines more than ever. Seriously, I'm a total SM fan, but even I'm getting sick of it.
>I think 40k as a whole lost a lot of it's appeal over the last few years due to the shift in focus to ever bigger kits
I was under the impression that those bigger kits sold really, really well.
>On an unrelated note Alessio, the Perry Brothers and Brian Nelson all played Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pelennor fields in the Return of the King film.
A friend of mine, who works at WETA at the time gushed over them. These days he makes his own wargames figures. Look up 'Gary Hunt Miniatures'.
2/10 would not take
Try a more subtle approach next time
Well that is why they do not give a shit that excessive numbers of giant monsters and robots ruin the game and keep making it harder to ban them from being played. Its especially ridiculous that many of the latest Tau releases are giant robots and fortifications, two things the Tau have always disdained.
Apocalypse and the plastic Baneblade is probably where this nonsense started.
They should just change the name of the franchise to "SPACE MARINES AND FRIENDS+other guys"
watch as an avatar gets taken out by some kids skipping rocks at a lake while one space marine "kills an entire fortress of 1000yr old+ chaos warriors....Naked"
Watch a Grey knight commander carve a name into a Deamon Primarch of Nurgle, when previously it took more then 100 grey knights and their buddies to stop another Deamon Primarch (deamon primachs who when mortal literally killed hundreds of space marines at a time without losing)
watch this blood angel chapter master stand on equal ground to a million+ yr old racial leader of immortal robots who has led campaigns against two different pantheons of gods and won, and then be to "tired" to betray his new-found buddy afterwards
I really wish mantic would do a bit more fluff writing, but the setting they have is pretty meh, not enouhg uniqness than I'm aware, tough they could do some interesting thing with the duality of the gods or the importance of spirits (Fire and water elementals like the salamanders and naiads are armies for example), a pity the KoW generals aren't alive anymore they tended to be pretty good.
>two things the Tau have always disdained.
Source? I read nearly all Tau sources and I have not found anything anywhere that says that they dislike giant robots.
The only things they dislike are static warfare and grindfests. The new tidewalls and giant robots are mobile and fit in their doctrine of mobility and superior firepower.
Who cares? The real reason is that GW is obsessed with giving every faction giant expensive kits.
40K was better when it was a HQ, 2-3 squads of guys and a vehicle or two as standard.
>“The model design for Warhammer had started to get overblown,” he said.
>“The models started to get big and came with too many parts. The number of pieces and the size of design are key factors in the cost of production, and there was a lack of discipline that meant the models were becoming less profitable.
Gee, they better not make the same mistake again.
I think the problem is you have this massive overly complex monster with a relatively tiny little rider on it, which doesn't make sense because he's meant to be the fucking Everchosen and not just some guy who managed to sit on a big monster this one time. The mount overshadows the rider.
Well, the HH is about Marines. So you should expect it to be about Marines.
If 40k is about anything right now, its Tau. The Xenos have taken centerstage with big fancy kits and/or retardly advantageous rules.
Either way, the game is unhealthy on several levels, and if Rountree thinks this is how you lay the foundation for long term growth, he is in for a surprise.
Scaring large numbers of long time dedicated customers away with unprecedented levels of bad game design is not a wise strategy for long term success.
I was so ready to bail on GW after their "we're not a games company" BS. Then they released the tidewall and I was like 'aww fuck, a xeno terrain kit, its a first so must buy'. Then I was like - damn I can get like a bunch of stuff from based chinaman with neo resin for cheap and I never tried em out, so I got more 40k stuff.
Now I'm like - not another dime until I check out infinity. Which is sad, because I'm a huge fan of GW forever (since RT) and other more specific reasons... such as personal.
For me, I'm interested in where AoS is going, but not enough to buy it yet.
I'll wait until GW gives up and released AoS Tournaments + unit points edition.
Furthermore - guys, AOS should have square bases and round bases. Get this : rules wise you can still rank up even though it doesn't really matter.
High elves, humans and whatnot with disciplined troops should rank up.
Orks, goblins etc. should stick to round bases because they are stupid to see ranked.
In other words, if I ever play, I'm not switching my elves to round bases.
Doesn't look anything like Archaon?
Seems more like they were trying to do a modern version of Egrimm van Horstman.
They always saw them as an expense and putting all your eggs in one basket sort of deal until they got their shit pushed in by an ork force consisting of a large amount of stompas and gargants. They tried to focus down the superheavies but shielding and general mass protected them while the orks themselves bumrushed now unsupported tau lines.
It was then that they realised the advantage having a fire magnet can have and invented the riptide, an expensive, rare and dangerous battlesuit.
Now to the present day we have stormsurge that take up ALL the transport capacity of a manta which can usually carry a heck of a load more suits. GW are expecting us to believe that the tau would rather start production on a slow ground based fire support to fight off titans rather than up production on mantas and tiger sharks which have been shown many times to be able to destroy titans without much return fire while also being able to transport entire cadres.
Is Kings of War any good as a WHFB replacement?
It looks pretty rad and isn't too expensive.
Bad news bro; it's shit.
It would have been a decent game, like 15 to 20 years ago, but in this day and age it's already obsolete.
shit quality minis, shit quality rules, shit quality art, and shit fluff too.
It has already failed one kickstarter.
Trying to force it on ppl doesn't make it better.
I'd wager that happened because Priestly left, because Warhammer Forge proved to be a failure or not as profitable as HH, or a combination of the two.
Sure the seeds for the End Times were planted in a few army books, but they could have been added at the last minute or never brought to fruition. I doubt someone came in and told them to can things because the End Times, especially since Tamurkhan is written like there is obviously going to be another book. One of the characters, Sayl, hints to as much, not to mention the forewords and afterwords in both Tamurkhan and Monstrous Arcanum.
The hesitation to commit to anything solid as far as world building goes beyond the various armies is really one of the worst parts of AoS.
>but the last ones are very good
See my picture
>It lets you use whatever fluff and models you like, how is that not friendly?
Probably in that its lore is pretty much non-existent and lacks depth, kind of like AoS but GW has money to throw at people to write and expand on it.
KoW just seems utterly fucking bland, meant to be nothing more than game. Mantic shoveling the "Forge the Narrative" stuff in your face that people give GW shit for, but without even giving you half as much material to work off of.
There is a reason why people pretty much just use the game system and keep to Fantasy lore and models and even at that KoW only managed to get a certain portion of the fractured Fantasy community.
There is probably a reason Mantic was shot down when they approached the Perry brothers about trying to do some connection between Perry models and Mantic's human army.
I really doubt Total Warhammer would have done anything for game like Fantasy with its horrible entry costs both in terms of money and time.
mine was the unicycle dark elf chariot.
Or was it space wolf santa sled?
Noooo, now i remember: it was the grey knight babby carrier !
1) Saw that thing
2) drop 40k like it was a shit filled nappy
3) never look back
4) my wallet and i have become friends again
It's an ultra simplistic version of WFB. like trisomy simple. But hey, if you like that kind of thing why not.
Some models look okay, many others, too many others look like cheap chinese import toys.
That is another bad one of Mantic, skipping leg etc must be one of the worse decisions mantic has done for they style, but the demons are pretty good (I dislike the Molochs tough).
It has things than remember WHFB but lots of others than are totally contrary dude, tough I agree in his simplicity but for me is a good thing, easy to learn but is mroe difficult to master.
That was my point, it's not a good model and shits all over the idea that "the last ones are very good".
The kindest I can say about Mantic is that they're a seesaw in terms of models. Some look good and others just look horrible. I've a feeling this is because, last I knew, they don't have their own team of sculptors, they outsource. This makes me doubt that they really have a vision for KoW outside of it being just a game. Something which I think is eventually going to blow up in their face when they can't make enough money via book sales alone. Heaven knows they can't be doing too well at retail considering how much they give away via Kickstarter.
>KoW just seems utterly fucking bland, meant to be nothing more than game. Mantic shoveling the "Forge the Narrative" stuff in your face that people give GW shit for, but without even giving you half as much material to work off of.
At least the ruleset is good compared to AoS.
Consider that the funds they invested in the rulebooks are already paid off.
Consider they make minis according to the demand and get funded by Kickstarters.
They don't have to pay for their own retail network.
They can litteraly go on forever.
Well that is good for you, but not all of us.
Can't give a shit how good the rules are if the models are of middling quality and the lore is piss poor.
Not to mention I have doubts that Mantic will not start to push what was wrong with 8th Edition, the need to have tons of models because its mass battle. As for dioramas, you can still be required to take tons of models in this manner for the purposes of representation.
As far as I see it they're obviously not making money on models, leaving the constant pumping out of rule books and possibly side games as their only recourse.
Kickstarter to keep our electric on doesn't inspire much confidence.
Have to wonder too how long the good times will continue to roll with Kickstarter, last I recall retailers were not too happy about having stock that sits on shelves because Mantic gives their product away for free. In fact it was because of such pressures why they had to change the second edition of the KoW rulebook to an extent, the free version not having everything you get in the copy you have to buy.
>Can't give a shit how good the rules are if the models are of middling quality and the lore is piss poor.
You can use any model (especially you are not forced to use mantics) you have and any lore you want to play. Your whining is irrelevant.
Mantic doesn't need to roll out stuff like GW. In the day and age of the internet anyone can see that GWs minis are way overpriced for what they are and people are moving to third parties, including them. Mantic is often out of order when it comes to minis, and their rules are selling like hot cakes.
I'm still pissed about how he butchered the second skaven book, but he's a trained martial artist and would probably kick my ass if I complained to him.
And what happens when I come across someone who doesn't use the same lore or models and they're the only people around?
I like cohesiveness, the fact that my army and my opponent's are part of a greater whole, not some Frankenstein creation.
The problem of finding a game also comes to mind as a possibility.
This is exactly why Mantic doesn't give a shit about it models or its rules and similarly why its fanbase is quick to deflect or defend the aforementioned, they're only interested in pushing blocks around and pretending they're tactical geniuses and will gladly settle for bland lore and grey restic dog shit.
>Mantic is often out of order when it comes to minis
Just as likely because they're a small ass company and can only afford to make small orders, not necessarily because there is great interest in their models or games.
This also brings up another good point, there are plenty of other third party companies that produce models which shit all over Mantic's, if I didn't give a damn about cohesiveness as I stated above, why even buy from them?
Fantasy being a supported game was actually a good thing for Mantic because you had people who were willing to pay for cheap models to fill up a block. I can count the number of mass fantasy battle games on one hand and I don't really know why you'd look to Mantic's offerings for anything besides those games.
>And what happens when I come across someone who doesn't use the same lore or models and they're the only people around?
What happens when you are playing your sigmarines and the only guy around you plays Storm of Chaos era Empire ?
>This also brings up another good point, there are plenty of other third party companies that produce models which shit all over Mantic's, if I didn't give a damn about cohesiveness as I stated above, why even buy from them?
They could, yet Mantic has a great quality/price ratio on some of their ranges, so they target a certain customer base. Since they are a small company, these sales are enough to keep them around and let them make new ones.
Both at least share the possibility of having similar overall aesthetics since they were both likely done in the heroic style.
It's fine from a lore position, which I think is more important from me, because it was established that AoS had tons of human empires and kingdoms and even still has remnants.
>let them make new ones.
If they were making anything more than enough to keep things a float, they wouldn't have to turn to Kickstarter every time you turn around.
See to me that would be a sign of success and that they're going somewhere, that they used Kickstarter to get on their own two feet in lieu of getting a loan from the bank or another investor, made a profit, and put that profit back into the company. Instead as I said above they seem to be perpetually stuck having to come asking for a loan. It's worse considering that there are companies like Privateer Press, Corvus Belli, and Wyrd who are all also privately owned and as far as I'm aware never touched Kickstarter outside of things unrelated to their main business such as a video game in the case of PP and RPGs in the case of CB and Wyrd.
Does the idea of focusing on having rules that work well trigger you or something? Its a GAME, you can get models or fluff anywhere but if the rules are awful or very clunky what is the point?
You would hate Frostgrave, the models are from an even wider range of manufacturers in that game. Yet that is one of its greatest strengths, being able to use whatever suitable models you want.
>they wouldn't have to turn to Kickstarter every time you turn around.
Except they are using Kickstarter to evaluate the demand on some ranges, just like AoW. It's not a bad business model considering the alternative that is GW approach to marketing.
I place a greater emphasis on lore and models than I do rules, though the latter would have to be sufficient enough. I'm obviously not alone in this considering 40k still exists, HH exists, and Fantasy existed for 30 years.
Age of Sigmar has bad fluff and bad models as well though.
Well we are never going to get the Old World back. So is it really any surprise people are taking the fluff and the models to a system with better rules?
Because it was horrible for new players to get in to and on the surface or in reality you're reward for taking a bunch of models which costs both time and money.
There is a decent chance I would have gave Fantasy a shot if it was similar to 40k in army construction and/or the number of models required per unit. There is no way I'm going to paint 40 some models for one Empire units just because I like the Steam Tank or Demigryph Knights. Chop that number in half and we could talk.
Not everyone is, 9th Age and people playing 8th Edition or older systems wouldn't be a thing otherwise.
8th edition was pretty bad for old players as well, considering it removed nearly all the strategy except army comp from the game. 8th edition was 2 turns of walking then roll dice on unending melee because everyone is steadfast. I stopped playing right after that.
But that is his point, the rules changes and the increase in standard point costs were the problem. Along with increasing the price of basic infantry.
And I never said ALL people.
6th edition was like that. Elite units were 15-20 man strong, same for mainline troops dependent on race. 20-30 man strong for horde armies. Calvary 5-10 man strong. Probably still slightly larger than a 40k force but you didn't have the obscene 50 man strong units you saw in 8th.
>protests about the cover of issue 44 having a woman in a thong and tit plates
Issue 37 had a fully naked male you fucking hypocritical twat.
It always baffled me people defended the prices.
When historical plastic kits with the same level of quality can be had for up to a quarter of the price per model. Having lots of skulls in the kit does not magically boost prices.
To be fair that amount of money was worth more back then than it is now, but still it's pretty fucking rediculous how high the current prices are.
>you used to be able to buy a really nice metal 20 strong unit of Dogs of War for £20
Literally any question I ask those idiots that isn't 'Why is GW so great guys?' gets called bait, I am still really fucking pissed off about the death of fantasy for that shit and I've tried to find something good that will convince me it isn't so bad but is anywhere you indicate you aren't totally positive, the OP who I absolutely believe is a paid shill tries to fucking shadowban you.
>There is probably a reason Mantic was shot down when they approached the Perry brothers about trying to do some connection between Perry models and Mantic's human army.
The reason is as old as the Perrys themselves. Any fantasy figures that they do is for GW, and will be so long as GW employs their service. I think the last things were Lord of the Rings related. Before they founded Perry Miniatures, they did historical miniatures for Wargames Foundry, also owned by Brian Ansell. When, in the early 2000s, Foundry started branching into SF and fantasy miniatures, the Perrys left. Because of their contract with GW.
They no longer work for GW however and I'm sure Mantic would know better than to approach them while they were under contract.
Not sure it would be legal for GW to say they can't work for someone else for a certain period of time after leaving.
>Not sure it would be legal for GW to say they can't work for someone else for a certain period of time after leaving.
Entirely legal as long as it is in the contract. Lots of industries do that.
>I really doubt Total Warhammer would have done anything for game like Fantasy with its horrible entry costs both in terms of money and time.
Dawn of War got a shitload of people into 40k and even more interested in the lore, buying the odd book or game.
The key part there was the horrible entry cost, something I don't think 40k ever had, at least time.
Interest in lore and the purchase of books is all well and good, but it doesn't serve the purpose of getting new players for the tabletop game.
>The key part there was the horrible entry cost
The entry cost of both warhammer and 40k used to be really low when Dawn of War hit the shelves.
Nowadays it wouldn't bring anyone in the hobby.
Not to mention the best leader is one at the front of an elite guard.
Tyrion looks good. Tyrion looks best in a unit of Silver Helms.
Grimgor looks good. Grimgor looks best among Immortulz.
Archaon may be a Chaos God now, but he'd still look more like a badass to be the tallest in a group of the same basic type of soldier.
Fuck, even Nagash and the Mortarchs can look right with Morghasts at their side.
Almost anything has better rules than AoS.
Heroclix, Candy Land, even pic related.
Fantasy wasn't the game for you then.
The problem is GW axed Mordheim rather than using it as entry level Warhammer Fantasy Battles.
Even 40k got Apocalypse, even if its the exact opposite direction.
>Fantasy wasn't the game for you then.
Nor for a lot of people it seems.
I think the problem is that time has moved on and a lot of Fantasy players are from a time when people didn't have other things to do with their time, thus they have no problem painting and modeling a bunch of miniatures.
Sadly, its pretty much a single player diceroll game.
To play against someone else, they bring their own battle.
Also, no moving parts.
Still better balance than AoS.
The key is entry cost.
Krosmaster for example costs $80-150 to get into. Krosmaster Junior is $20 Krosmaster, and is just a more basic starter set. You begin with Junior, then move onto Quest or Arena when you get more minis.
Its like if X-Wing was a 200 point Epic game as the standard and the starter set was 4 Rebel ships, 8 TIE, for $150.
Fantasy needed a subsystem like AoS for quick games, but it did need the more complex game as what to shoot for when you get a collection going.
Instead, you had $90 starter sets and $400+ entry.
AoS fails by basically not being a game. You don't have a goal, advanced games are just larger games that require you to own specific lists of minis already.
Ah, I thought you were suggesting Mordheim as an alternative. I would agree it definitely needed either supplement game that could be played and transitioned between or reworked with a focus on smaller armies.
Really I think the rise in so many games with relatively small model requirements and even prepainted figures in the case of games like X-Wing and Attack Wing shows that people want a game were they don't have to devote all of their time and the time they do devote can be used to its fullest. It's a lot less tedious and stressful to paint 10 models to a good standard then it is 30-40 and then realize that was only one unit.
>"We sell models, not toys."
I wish they let every one who has seen my collection and called them toys know that
Eh, I could see why they might bristle at that, it's a big jump.
Still I won't lie, the fact that no real setup is involved was quite an attractive aspect of X-Wing, even though I thought the painting and modeling offered by miniatures games could be a nice thing to do.
But not as a starter set. Remember those packs of four models and a small set of paint? Make that the prepainted starter set into the game.
Every army has a small pack of prepainted models and the AoS rules. Make them about $30 each. Include a guide for expanding into more advanced games by buyibg more things to use with the AoS/starter set rules or the main game when they have enough.
Make it so every model has their rules for both the starter game and the main game.
Army books are 100% lore, like a novel full of short stories and a Heraldry book in one.
In the company credit screens as Total Warhammer loads, one is a "Like the video game? Buy the models!" ad for the starter sets. Complete with a coupon for 10% off a starter included with the game.
One is light with the rules like AoS and just gets you a feel for how these models work together. No limit, and a very basic balance mechanism like treating a unit as a specific number of models that represent wounds on a creature rather than individuals.
Then 9th edition.
You have a casual game, you have the advanced game. Warhammer Fantasy Skirmish, Warhammer Fantasy Battles.
Have AoS and 9e as divergent timelines and sell them both, like the Ultimate universe and 616 in Marvel comics. Then people can have their cake and eat it too, buying models either way.
Use the game to sell the models. Hire somebody to put out a monthly webcomic to sell the models. Use T-shirts and hats to advertise the models. Use downloadable papercraft terrain to advertise the models.
Use the fucking models to sell the models, put in a small product catalog into each kit like they used to.
More like they finally noticed all the companies around today making dosh off the same niches that SG used to occupy and think they can get those people back. It's going to funny to see newSG crash and burn because GW still doesn't actually understand what people want though.
The problem is that the entire model is just visual noise. All these big, new models are covered in so much shit you can't look at them without your eyes just glazing over. That's what makes them so ugly and boring.
One of these is a toy and the other is Premium Model Kit Sold For a Premium Price.
Can you tell which is which?
Funny thing is there are people who buy this.
I'm saying this as someone who used to be a GW fanboy for close to twenty years.
Though I started in the 90s when GW was still a nice company.
Really they could have worked more into the LoTR game and make it WH related than the shit than is AoS, also entering into the miniature market more competitive right now like Skirmishing fantasy isn't that smart, WHFB was the only one widely played mass battle game, now Mantic is growing a lot thanks to they decisions.
he don't upload shit, he gives a link that people already have anyways. he is pretty stupid but not as bad as saying 'aos general- no links buy books!!!44'
oh, he uploads some things tho. white dwarfs one fucking week before release dates
GW are actively proud of doing no market research and they apparently think they shit gold. Its not really surprising they would abandoned a still profitable monopoly to try and enter a crowded market while also alienating their fans.
I'm that guy>>44656994, I create AoS general thread, and maintain that mega link too.
I upload that for you. :3
Back in 2nd Edition, you could buy the corebox with something like a hundred miniatures for £40. Tanks
Inflation might be a factor, but to be honest, wage inflation hasn't matched it. And even then, fantasy plastics offer 90s level of GW affordability.
I mean, look at the Perry Twins battle in a box. That's admittedly £55 more than the old 2nd Ed box set but you also get far more miniatures, plastic scenery rather than the old card stuff, etc.
never clicked on it, just assumed you share the regular mega folder that has everything, 40k/specialist games/whfb/painting/aos
now I see that you just copied everything you liked to your directory, carefully cutting out every fantasy content. notagwguy.png
I really like you, the link content(screencap) can be found the original AoS general pastebin, check the archive. Your hobby is shitposting on internet right? I really like to play with such hobbyist. :3
I am not talking about the aos general 'original' shit you stole from here and there, but about the real original archive: https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!ZZwyAACQ
just assumed you use that but probably your manager said that you need to cull all WHFb and specialist games content :^)
Oh son, my resources link used in both AoS and WIP general, you just proved yourself never visit WIP general, your hobby is shitposting. BTW only if you take a look, I get alot of resources (WD/vision) your link do not have. Copy and delete? I really like you. :3
he was, used the exact same argument ('look I am a hobbyist your hobby is shitposting :3'). hell, even the exact same smiley
so know we know that the AoS OP guy was the one shitposting in the WHFB thread. you deserve the cesspool your thread has become shill
god damn that fucker. he portrayed himself as a WHFB player who is reluctant about AoS but likes some of the art. at the same time he made a new OP for AoS just to delete every bit of fantasy from the old mega archive
We caught a REAL shill boys
he was caught back there as well, the 'hardcore whfb player' posted the same images/filedata while he was shitposting fantasy in the AoS thread. he disappeared a few days after he got exposed
this is just another proof
I never posted a single post in WHFB, but that not point, don't move the goalpost, the original line i reply was"guy create AoS general can't be GW employee, 'cause I share a lot of resources ".
Once you guy figured out that, my resources contribution is really good(in 2 general). And now, move the goalpost to accuse me, I am someone else? Keep the good work, it is really fun. :3
You can literally choose from any edition rule set you want, ebay is full of old miniatures, GW still sells some of the best fantasy miniatures they've ever produced. What's stopping you?
So you have no trouble whatsoever getting new people to invest in an unsupported game? And you have 100% perfect retention of old players to prevent a declining player base?
Of course given you made it about Americans you are just a troll or a fucking moron.
No, I'm not. I find it's pretty easy if you have an established gaming group to say "Hey, want to dig out some old models and rulesets and have a game?"
And I said American because this comes from Americans time and time again because many of them, especially those who play GW games suffer from that mindset that you can only play supported games. It's a noticeable trend.
Nah. They had the bits order and everything. White Dwarf used to be really worthwhile. Had a steady dialogue with their customers via letters too.
GW used to be a nice company. That was in the 90s though.
The early 00s weren't that bad either. But they went downhill fast lately.
These days they aren't a nice company anymore.
You see I never got this "GW wants to sell more than a dozen minis" argument against specialists. Every game of all the specialist systems I played your warbands eventually became really large. In a couple of gaming circles I played in we started experimenting with insurgent networks and warbands. Still small skirmish gaming but where we scaled it up to 2 or 3 units. It didn't seem like it would be that hard for GW to scale these games up into the the range of 36 models and a few rickety vehicles. It felt like something you could do really easy with an expansion box.
Then your Necormunda militia/mercenary/cult insurgency could be an auxiliary to your Guard army, fodder for your Chaos Marines, Or combine a couple of these irregular groups to make self styled bandit army or some kind of space pirates. Sure they would be squishy, but they would be cheep point costs and GW could sell mountains of them. The whole idea would be hugely customizable and it wouldn't unbalance the game because the basis of all these irregular factions would always be jobber level dudes. None of them would ever get to the level of power armor or Lemon Russes.
The idea is even easier through the lenses of Gorka Morka. Hell it would just look like your average Ork army.
I can see the counter argument where people have to keep track of every leg wound or equipment variation. But it just seems like a point/currency system could eventually purchase your unit some kind of elite status that would be reflected in the squads stats, moral, and equipment. The original gang would buy/recruit new squads of jobbers that maybe didn't have as much autonomy if you scaled it down to a skirmish level or acted as sentries. When you scaled thing back up to play with the big boys you would maybe have one auxiliary command unit that was your original gang and a couple of jobber units that marines could eat for breakfast. The mere role playing aspect of it would push people to expand their collections.
Thats how I wish the latest path to glory should have been, instead you start off a chaos lord, customization is limited and it's huge units instead of say counting yourself lucky if you rolled one blight king.
I'm not saying I wouldn't want a campaign to end that way but I like them to start out small, in the original path to glory booklet one guy turned his warband into the nucleus of a kick ass nurgle army.
>You see I never got this "GW wants to sell more than a dozen minis" argument against specialists.
Because it's bullshit.
Support for specialist games seemingly stopped because some people at GW were afraid of investing more, they weren't selling enough after a while, or some combination of the two.
Shitposting include but not limited to spidey, don't be narrow minded. And post spidey in proof that you guy have no guts, becasue I create my resources for both wip and AoS general, but not dare to touch the popular one?