You must now justify the existence of hand-to-hand combat experts in a universe where people have laser guns and grenades and shit without resorting to Dune energy shields or something.
Because you're a hand to hand expert on top of being a marksman and you've either been disarmed of your weapon or you've run out of ammo and the enemy is on top of you.
Did knives suddenly stop being about to kill people just because guns were invented?
Close quarters still exist. If there's space travel involved, the last thing you want is something that can breach the hull or cause a fire.
Also just like the modern world, martial arts and fist-fighting in general is a not-too-uncommon hobby.
Scanning technology has almost been perfected. The only thing that can't be detected are certain subtle enhancements, and fists.
As such, there's a pretty big demand for martial arts experts as a body guard whenever you're going into hostile territory for a negotiation.
Some serious augumentation like laserproofskin, regenerative abilities a la wolverine and such things and not to mention superstrength.
Also, laserguns and grenades could be hilseriously inneffective.
Also, some kinda of cultural thingamagib. Incredibly strict honor codes or a duel code fought out only using unarmed.
Civilian self defense training.
The USMC or local equivalent.
Same as today.
Superhuman physical abilities that allow people to punch straight through their fellow man. This isn't so useful out in the open, but in closer tighter places like indoors, or alleyways it provides immeasurable benefits. So you leave the plains and the hills to the men with guns and grenades, but the moment they step into your city you punch their heads off.
>shit without resorting to Dune energy shields or something.
Magic science dust that will blow up if you lasers
No organization that trains soldiers for combat makes them specialize in only one form or with one weapon like a silly DnD class.
When you join the military you've got a lot of infrastructure jobs to fill but these people still might see combat so you train them in guns, vehicles and hand to hand combat.
I can only imagine a space faring militia or even pirates would have to know all kinds of shit about hull integrity and system repairs both in and out of a ship.
Then you also have the problem of what would happen if you fired a gun inside of a ship and hit anything important or even pierced the hull.
So if you were raiding a ship you intended to salvage and take prisoners or McGuffins chances are you wouldn't use ballistics, maybe not even lasers depending on how blasty they were.
For everything else: The martial expert would just pick up a laser gun and grenades if they're that effective
Cybernetic enhancements in close quarters.
Machine arms and legs designed for non lethal take downs.
You're not accepting combat in waves, instead you are seeking out enemy installations, infiltrating and then surprising them with close combat when they are prepared for long range or medium combat.
If grappling ships are the best and most effective spaceships in the universe, surely some good old-fashioned fisticuffs can't be too bad once and a while, eh?
A hand-to-hand combat expert who is also a marksman is going to be a more effective combatant than someone who is only a marksman. Close quarters will never not exist
It's also the most constructive use of your cardio time.
>You must now justify the existence of hand-to-hand combat experts in a universe where people have guns and grenades and shit without resorting to 'bulletproof skin' or something.
Because boxing, san shou, wrestling, bjj, mma, pankration, and other combat sports still exist and maintain a fairly good popularity.
I've always wondered why there any rules systems meant to simulate the players being professional athletes participating in a Weird Martial Arts League. It wouldn't play at all like normal, DnD-based systems (for one, you'd have to have either 1-on-1 PvP, or each player faces one enemy while the others wait, plus rules for the "off season" which matter at least as much as what they do during their bouts).
Alternatively, bullshit sci-fi medicine and the limits of the human body as we know them coming from our inferior (compared to in-setting) biomedical knowledge and self-care rather than being something inherent.
>durrr they still wouldn't be able to outrun bullets
No shit, but health care would be so advanced, responsive, and accessible that getting shot twenty times would be like breaking a toe today.
>Fists can't be taken away
Sunder would like to have a little word with you
Actually the most effective spaceships just collapse local space into plasma and be done with it.
>You must now justify the existence of hand-to-hand combat experts in a universe where people have laser guns and grenades and shit without resorting to Dune energy shields or something.
Your image is a good hint; The hand to hand combat experts live in a lower-class tier (perhaps literally) of society, making it vitally important to have an edge in fights that cannot be resolved with guns.
If the tech is expensive enough (and given the myriad issues with prototypes today it's disingenuous to claim it's unrealistic for that to happen) a single laser gun could put you on the backfoot more than a Tesla does.
You'll think twice about bringing something out in the open that's just as likely to be a defensive asset as a massive target sign painted on your back.
TL;DR: Hobo monks.
Setting where magic only works on living things, meaning only living bodies can be enchanted.
Sci-fi setting. Shipboard/space station combat. Any projectile with enough punch to beat personal armor at the current tech level would also punch a hole into hard vacuum; even worse if the shooter misses. Thus, alternate means of attack are necessary.
With the right equipment, you can get up right in their faces. Being in melee range makes it harder for someone to get a good shot off at you, and only the most suicidal moron is going to try to hit you with a grenade at that range.
Have a read of this article about why the British Police don't want to carry guns for their day to day duties:
>Arming the force would, say opponents, undermine the principle of policing by consent - the notion that the force owes its primary duty to the public, rather than to the state, as in other countries.
>"In terms of the police being approachable, in terms of the public being the eyes and ears of the police, officers don't want to lose that," he says.
Having the police armed changes how the public interacts with them. A change that the police don't want, so they leave the guns to the specialist units that they only call in if they need them.
While this does mean more reliance in de-escalating situations without violence, we are talking about the interactions between police and criminals. The non-violent options aren't always enough. The armed police units could be too far away to deal with the situation in time. For example, someone could come at the police with a knife:
Hand to hand training becomes the only viable option.
It also means they'd be expected to handle tasks usually reserved for the armed response unit. Essentially making their job more dangerous by default, instead of something they can volunteer to do.
In shadowrun 4e, my character literally punched lasers as powerful as the main guns on a battleship. It really fucked with combat so we had to swap systems for the game to continue without me obliterating things. It was a great time
These things are not mutually exclusive, OP. They can exist side by side. It's like saying "Why should we have infantry when we have tanks?" or "Why do we have handguns when we have assault rifles?".
Some weird crystal orbs exist in the world that give the user magical power, let's call them say "materia" how does that sound?
Sounds like you're talking about the Four Crystals!
Considering she was masquerading as a man among the pirates for long I highly doubt this.
Even the official art has her being pretty flat.
I might be reading too much into this line from the ship graveyard:
Galuf: Bah... If you aren't gonna dress like a girl- and you should, a real
shame to hide such assets- y'could at least talk like one...
>a real shame to hide such assets
Close quarters combat.
Stricter gun laws and gun detection.
If there's space travel, nobody wants to be the idiot who misses and shoots a hole in the hull.
Cybernetics and power armor turning hand-to-hand fighters into literal killing machines.
But Sephiroth's Artwork was designed by Nomura, not Amano. Huh, maybe Sephiroth's design was a tribute to Amano to Nomura?
we have guns and granades, you can easily make a pipebomb with the shit you have in your hose but fistycuffs is stillusefull, nothing would change in space except i would probobly have power fists to punch harder. Nothing beats punching when you are in a tight spot or dont want to kill someone just teach em a lesson
This unused design for Lenna.
Which I prefer to the one in-game.
The danger to puppies trapped in cars, innocent bystanders and THEMSELVES (there's a lot of incidents AND accidents in the US, up to and including range instructors blowing their own heads off) is a pretty nasty drawback as well.
Handguns have their uses for sure, but they can be very bad at keeping the peace in an already (comparatively speaking) peaceful place. Especially once the "I have one so everyone else might too" mentality sets in as it does in US police forces, and everyone and everything suddenly makes you "I had reason to believe that I was fearing for my life".
Between that and the power-rush when they realize they could kill the person they're talking to effortlessly, it's no wonder the departments here invariably turn into raging looting assholes.
As has been said, can't damage a space ship.
To get around this, my setting has a lot of non-lethal combat options. Net guns, shock batons, and concussion grenades innnn spaaaaace.
Cybernetic brawler guilds.
They have tech that enhances the user to the point that they can come really close to a person and unleash a terrifying hailstorm of hits that penetrate energy shields and crush armor.
Of course they don't take in everyone. First they make sure the candidate for cybernetic enhancement is healthy enough. Then they make him undergo a training from hell.
Actually, grappling ships were used as a legal loophole, because the space forces cracked down hard on warships, but defined a warship as any spacecraft with built in weaponry.
Robot arms on spacecraft were necessary for various work and construction vehicles, so they couldn't be outlawed, and having the robot arms hold the weapons meant that they were not built in, dodging the warship clauses.
The space forces tried to update the rules to cover grappler ships, but generally found that it wasn't worth the time since it only really would apply to pirates and outlaws anyway, and it was hard as hell to define 'carry a weapon' in such a way that it did not also apply to merchant vessels transporting goods for the military.
Make the action to occur inside of space ship or an underground facility, where shooting lasers is a really bad idea.
Also, pic related. Power-armors that are resistant to low-end laser weapons and most melee weapons to assault fortress with small corridors. Your guys will simply steamroll the defenders.
CQC knowledge allows you to CQC mechas and super-soldiers, and be operator as fuck while you're at it.
>and it was hard as hell to define 'carry a weapon' in such a way that it did not also apply to merchant vessels transporting goods for the military.
Nah, it's quite simple. Ban the fuck out of anything remotely resembling it, then hand out gun hauling licenses to your contractors. It's your basic white-list system.
We have hand to hand combat experts today. In close quarters, anything can happen. Only the Americans really seem to hold CQC in genuine disdain, literally everyone else still trains it, and the British have demonstrated its overwhelmingly effective use in living memory.
The bullet is an idiot. The bayonet knows what he's about.
I mean on a tactical level. Most US forces use the bayonet for aggressiveness training, and I think the Marines still actually carry them, but the idea of actually charging people is no longer considered viable, even with covering fire and a superior position. There was some dude who went full Gurkha on some hajis with a folder, so I guess they know how but just choose not to?
Then again, the Yanks shitsmacked Fallujah so hard Salladin did an extra rotation in hell, so obviously they know close combat. Maybe it's just a difference in doctrine.
>Sometimes you forget your gun
>Because you're a hand to hand expert on top of being a marksman and you've either been disarmed of your weapon or you've run out of ammo and the enemy is on top of you.
>Did knives suddenly stop being about to kill people just because guns were invented?
>Close quarters still exist. If there's space travel involved, the last thing you want is something that can breach the hull or cause a fire.
>Also just like the modern world, martial arts and fist-fighting in general is a not-too-uncommon hobby.
>A hand-to-hand combat expert who is also a marksman is going to be a more effective combatant than someone who is only a marksman. Close quarters will never not exist
>With the right equipment, you can get up right in their faces. Being in melee range makes it harder for someone to get a good shot off at you, and only the most suicidal moron is going to try to hit you with a grenade at that range.
...But yeah, this.
>THROGMAR, THIS YOU LANDLADY
I TOLD YOU!!!
>Make the action to occur inside of space ship or an underground facility, where shooting lasers is a really bad idea.
>Also, pic related. Power-armors that are resistant to low-end laser weapons and most melee weapons to assault fortress with small corridors. Your guys will simply steamroll the defenders.
Yes, but this is how I'd bullshit giant humanoid Robots anyways...
Thanks, as far as i can tell however it seems to just be the natural evolution of combat, nowadays there are fewer trench engagements or battles of attrition but more urban sweeps where if you fall into a cqc situation you will most likely still be gunned down by an enemy supportive unit. Once the third world war rolls around we will probably see a rise of qcq roles in the military
>You must now justify the existence of hand-to-hand combat experts in a universe where people have laser guns and grenades and shit without resorting to Dune energy shields or something.
Techniques that allow you to move faster than bullets, hit harder than RPGs, jump around like Superman, and kick the ass of everyone who relies on all that fancy technology exist.
Also, it is possible to develop your physical strength, endurance, and reflexes far beyond the limits of humanity in this world.
That's actually where the problem anon mentioned comes in.
You look like a goddamn dick, and start having more and more trouble, because "only pirates and criminals" have weapons on their ships, and a vast majority of merchants and civilians end up either tying up your forces due to their need for protection, or tying up your forces due to being branded as pirates/criminals for the 'crime' of trying to protect themselves because why the fuck would you ever commit forces to protecting those you've banned the right to defend themselves for.
To put it bluntly: When everyone who isn't one of your favorites has the choice between being considered a criminal or GETTING TO FUCKING LIVE, everyone's quickly a criminal.
This is how you get mass armed revolutions.
Something those of you in the US should be rarther knowledgable about - not just because of how great you are at handling the middle-east locations you've invaded - given "we do fuck-all for you but you will pay all our new taxes or we'll consider you thieves and pirates" was KIIIIIIINDA the escalation that led to a certain little harbor-party in Boston.
Why aren't the corridors made of that stuff too, thus making laser weapons the prefered in-craft weapon? Plus it's wall plating, you don't have to worry about making it thin and mobile like people plates.
>Not using both technology and martial arts to push your body to the limits.
>Not using superior ki based training augmented with iron and WILL POWER.
>Not casting fist.
What's the point of fighting if you have to use proxy tools?
the complaint was pretty much "the brits are cracking down on smuggling, that's not faaaaair" in the north, and "the brits are expecting us to actually pay our taxes, that's not faaaaair" in the south
Nobody in America could even pretend the brits weren't doing shit for them- they'd literally just finished fighting a war with the French wherein pretty much all the fighting and dying had been done by the English
The continental army was lead by the finest officer of the French and Indian Wars the revolutionaries could scrounge up: one G. Washington, total military accomplishments "got all his troops killed, was bailed out by the brits."
Dude's personal military talents were limited to 1. lookin' good and 2. being the finest retreater of his day. seriously, not a joke, man turned what should have been total routs into somewhat organized retreats that preserved most of his forces, he was genuinely great at them
Probably for the same reason that aircraft bodies aren't made of the same stuff that black boxes are made of - titanium is much denser than aluminium, so it takes more fuel to get the same net acceleration.
Long-range conventional-war combat systems are varied robotic systems commanded by AI. Aimbots that kill anything between here and the horizon so fast, it takes longer for the bullet to arrive than the AI to aim, acquire, and fire.
Since 99% of gun usage is done by AI systems, personal guns are rare. Since sensor systems are so good, they're also impossible to smuggle into secured areas.
So when special forces need to infiltrate a command bunker, there's no room for guns because the outside perimeter would kill them instantly. It's one ninja with biotech-augmented kung fu slaughtering their way through a building full of unarmed drone pilots.
My idea is actually energy requirements. For whatever dumb fuck reason, laser guns take an absurd amount of energy, so a gun's "clips" are actually batteries that are only good for one or two shots. So guns can still be used, but it's impractical to carry all the ammo unless you wear it like a huge backpack. Also, there can still be laser guns on ships, since they have plenty of energy to divert from the fire belchers.
Hey, it works for Indonesian SWAT
Wow, have you no imagination?
>peoples mind states are stored in incredibly durable bodies so to disable them takes heavy laser fire to burn open the braincases as the self repair mechanisms will fix damaged limbs in seconds
>destroying the brain makes the person revive into a new body from self replicating machines that are too numerous to smash and they revive you too
>but simple leverage allows you to pin someone down until you can pour plascrete on them and seal them in a solid block of material
Fucking easy to justify.
The melee fighters have disablers that prevent the use of firearms and grenades in a 4-mile radius. And now most of these melee fighters are so skilled and experienced that they are faster than others, and then there are some who have augmentations to go even faster
Gun require bullets. And a gun. Sneaking yourself into a place is easier than sneaking yourself and a weapon. Leathality isn't always desired. Beating the shit out of a rival gang member will be less likely to get you in hot water than shooting them in the face.
I haven't fully read the thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned.
I think hand-to-hand serves a highly useful purpose in today's military - it kills time. A lot of deployment is sitting around and when you're off duty you're sitting around. To prevent the boredom from creeping in we sometimes just spar or brawl. It's something you can practice when you have a bunch of people sitting around doing nothing, requires no equipment, and you need to piss away the adrenaline somehow.
Sure there are plenty of ways to kill time: read, bullshit, do actual preparation or work. But some people just can't do that or exhaust themselves cleaning their weapon. So the military gives them a hobby.
EMP's or any number of other ways to disable energy based weapons THAT ALREADY EXIST. Stealth: you don't looks as suspicious if you don't have a gun, and sometimes people will let you places they otherwise would not. Being able to take another person's laser from close range. Oh, and also Dune energy shields. If a universe where laser grenades are real, what's so absurd about energy shields?
A man cannot push a button if you disable his hand!
Copper beryllium melee weapons for removing bad guys from the giant gas mines. It would look sweet, AND give you good excuses to keep firearms, railguns, lasers and explosives at home.
>>Not using superior ki based training augmented with iron and WILL POWER.
Qi is fucking real and hand to hand experts can bitchslap bullets out of the air, uppercut someone through a roof, and get hit in the face with a grenade then punch the grenadier out of their skin.