>>44608582 His name is Matthew Mercer, he's a voice actor who is primarily known for his work in Attack on Titan (as Levi) and Resident Evil 4 (As Leon) he DM's for a group of other voice actors on Geek and Sundry using 5th Edition with some homebrewed rules because they converted over from Pathfinder.
>>44608586 Care to elaborate? I just started watching a day or two ago so I don't know what he does to overhype things.
>Seamlessly intertwines PC backstory in with campaign >Amazing NPCs >Great at describing environments / situations; immersive. >Coaches "newbie" players through decisions, and doesn't balk to more experienced optimizers >Allows room for creativity, letting players attempt whatever they want without ever losing control of the situation. >Always *seems* prepared.
>>44608940 Yes, I'm well aware of the reputation they have, which is why I was skeptical of watching anything made by them, however after giving it a try I enjoy it quite a bit. Of course I still am curious about how many of the people on /tg/ feel about his DMing style.
>>44608582 He's a professional voice actor (voiced Leon Kennedy in Resident Evil 6, MacCreedy in Fallout 4, and a bunch of other mostly bit parts) and the DM of a D&D podcast called Critical Role, with other voice actors like Liam O'Brien as players. It's worth checking out, IMO.
Wait, are we not supposed to like things they make? Why? I don't follow much of their stuff (Spellslingers is amazing, occasionally watch some tabletop) but they seem like a purely positive presence for the community.
I get this from One Shot too, where they're all improv actors.
It's super disappointing running a real-life game and having all your players talk about this amazing YouTube video where the guy does amazing voices and it's just like a cartoon and it's super immersive. So let's start today's session, GM! Don't mind me, just playing apps on my phone and stacking dice whenever you talk.
What he does well: >Voices and acts NPCs. This is something 99.9999999999% of DMs are too miserable to ever even consider doing. >Actually manages to get players to embelish on their own actions beyond a simple declaration of "I attack" or "I intimidate". This is something 99.99999% of players will never, ever do.
What he does poorly: >Creates a coherent narrative that is actually followable as a real story, rather than just a series of different episodes set in distinct, disparate atmospheres and settings with no connection to eachother. >Manages to have some sort of unifying goal that the players keep in their minds at any given point that keeps them operating within the campaign world. >Races through plotlines and story bits with no time to develop important characters and actually create an understanding of their motivations and why they exist.
He's a good DM when it comes to actually handling the rules and keeping the players excited, but that comes at the price of any sort of coherent narrative.
>>44609257 >>Voices and acts NPCs. This is something 99.9999999999% of DMs are too miserable to ever even consider doing.
When did acting become a part of RPGs?
Remember when you were in school and your teacher asked you to read out a page from the book?
You might read the dialogue differently because it's in inverted commas, but you didn't act or give every character a unique voice. Even if it would make sense: I read Of Mice and Men to the class in my English accent, I didn't switch to American even when there was American slang.
RPGs are about telling a story that exists in your imagination. If you try to act everything 1:1, it creates a weird disconnect (e.g. players using their in-character voice to joke or talk about out-of-character things).
>>44609228 This is why I don't really think that things like Critical Role and Acquisitions Inc. are particularly good influences to get people into RPGs. Like, I appreciate the concept, but all it breeds is these new people who expect their game experience to be exactly like the show they saw where professional actors and entertainers put in a lot of effort and huge amounts of production value, and that this is exactly what they should expect, but they don't know that they're required to put any effort in themselves.
So all they ever end up doing is complaining that the games they join aren't like the shows they watched, and they spend their time trying to make a character who is exactly like the one they saw someone playing on the show, and don't understand why it's not as good.
>>44609453 We have a place for defectives like that, it's called play-by-post. You get to spend all day trying to write a sentence, and you never have to struggle to come up with excuses as to why you deserve to play despite not putting in any effort at all.
I find Sean hilarious, sorry. Even if he were the least funny person in the universe though I don't see how that would be a problem, these shows bring more people into our hobby which is really only a good thing.
>>44609462 So what if someone did historical research, learned or created an interesting setting, wrote up an exciting plot and solid characters, mastered the rules well enough, and was able to adjust the rules and their decisions on the fly to enhance the enjoyment of the game ... BUT they couldn't do silly voices for NPCs?
>>44609257 The furthest I will go is intonation and pace. As a DM and as a player anything further is too theatrical for my tastes. You don't have to be a actor to roleplay well you have to be good a creating distinctive and believable characters, then play in the game world from their perspective.
>>44609519 Then they have room to improve. The real question is: Do they care enough about their job as a DM to put that effort into improving, or are they just going to stamp their feet and insist they are done getting better?
>>44609530 I think a better analogy would be college films.
Because I had a lot of friends doing film in college, they all did one of two things: zombie movies, or Tarantino knock-offs.
They were all shit and there's a lot better they could have done with the same budget and equipment. Sadly there was this pervasive idea at the time that these were the pinnacle of filmmaking, and even low-budget, amateur filmmakers should strive for the same.
>>44609519 You don't HAVE to do silly voices for NPCs, but it's nice to do SOMETHING to help distinguish them (a particular vocabulary, inflection, tone, etc) so the players don't end up asking "Um, who are we talking to again?" every five minutes.
>>44609530 Its not about "These high-quality shows are too good, thus they are a bad influence", it's "These high-quality shows are a bad influence because they do an inadequate job of preparing a new person entering the hobby by setting unreal expectations that can never be met and it's very likely the players will come to expect such things provided to them without any input of their own".
>>44609385 Roleplaying is making decisions that the character you're playing would make based on their personality and the situation that they're in. Talking in a funny voice isn't roleplaying. You don't need to be a fucking thespian to be a good roleplayer.
>>44609607 Fair enough. I try to make it clear by not having two NPCs speak at once, or to each other. I guess that isn't realistic, but the players are the focus. The king doesn't have a back-and-forth with the queen complete with baritone and falsetto voices, the queen asks one player a question, then maybe another player will address the king, etc.
>>44609605 If it contributes meaningfully, sure. You can't change costume every time you play a different NPC, but having a prop or something that adds flavor to the interaction of that NPC is certainly not a bad thing.
As a player I find it very awkward (and thus unfun) when a DM insists on doing voices and would absolutely not consider it "improving" if one started trying to add that in. What you consider the ideal is not a universal standard, people can have legitimately different tastes and that's alright.
>>44609677 I feel bad for every group you have to be a part of, shit.
Just a bunch of fat assholes sitting around a table being monotone and blase about everything they do, and then getting sour and angry any time the DM tries to make you feel like you're speaking to a Dragon instead of the Court Jester.
You're speaking in your normal, nerdy voice, but you're no longer Greg, the weaselly nerd, you're Kodor, the buff barbarian. Greg could the dialog from a Conan story in his usual voice and manner.
Are you strong in real life? Not really. Are you intelligent in real life? Doesn't matter. Are you charismatic in real life? Who cares.
Play your character to the best of your ability, but your character has that +3 bonus to strength or charisma, you don't.
I appreciate that people get really into doing specific voices for their characters, but that should be seen as optional. You don't have to be a bodybuilder, you don't have to be a thespian, you have to use your wits, your character's strengths (as they are on paper), and get good rolls.
>>44609642 I see all these accessories as crutches for poor DM's/Players. If you acting and talking differently our brains can do the rest. If you are shitty you will feel the need to make silly voices and wear a hat regardless that every one of your NPC's/PC's is one dimensional.
Long story short you are changing some of the least important aspects of a character.
So you guys must fucking hate someone like Matt Mercer and the rest of the Critical Role crew.
I mean, all those amateur fucks pretending that talking in funny voices makes them anything but autistic spergs who need crutches because they can't just roleplay in their normal voices. It's so shitty, right?
>>44609713 I try to do this with their actions rather than their voices. And I often use the third person. So Kardek the Klumsy says he knows where the book the PCs want is, he walks straight into the shelf and knocks some books down. He says "oh dear" to himself, then starts checking over the books. Another librarian points out to him it's on the next set of shelves, and mutters under her tongue "why did we ever hire an orc?" as Kardek tries to remember the alphabet out loud.
I'll say something like that all in my normal, boring voice, and weeks later players are still making jokes about Kardek. I guess combining it with a silly voice would work too, but I try to place a focus on what's happening rather than what's being said. The players aren't watching a movie, they're the movie stars.
>>44609804 You know that you're misrepresenting my opinion.
Its not that voices are necessarily a bad thing but they are a false paragon. Skilled story tellers don't need a whole menagerie of voices to tell a gripping story. A good story teller needs a menagerie of characters and situations to tell a good story.
Right, because obviously if you aren't putting on a theatrical performance the only alternative is bland monotone and quiet rage. We have fun playing the game and describing events rather than acting them out, that includes the DMs who rather than being forced into it are like-minded friends of the players shockingly enough. It's a spectrum of equally valid approaches, can you accept that or do you want to argue that freeform RPers are even better than you are?
Stop projecting, I think it's fine that they use voices if that's what they enjoy. The only way to do it "wrong" is by doing something that you actively don't enjoy since that's basically the exact opposite point of gaming.
>>44609945 He's the only one that got there, the rest of the people are on their way, saying "A good DM can tell a story without any type of acting skill or effort, therefore if a DM does it, it's a crutch that bad DMs use and games are better without.".
I think every DM should have access to a couple different voices. If you're DMing often, you want every tool available, and voices are actually one of the easiest ones to pick up if you put in the time and effort. You don't need a massive range, but it only takes like an hour to get your pitch up or down a little bit comfortably and a bit longer than that to add a cheap accent to your pool. It's also really practical outside of just characterization since you can have multiple NPCs in a conversation with clarity and move through it quickly.
I do agree that a DM doesn't need any acting ability to tell a story, but campaigns do come down to the sum of their parts and you should really take every advantage you can.
No, it's ACTING. You don't need to act out your character to roleplay them well. Saying "I throw out a racial slur and insult his choice of attire" is just as valid saying "Oi knife-ears, did yer mum sew that sissy apron for ya?" in a broken Scottish accent, because they both effectively portray that the dwarf you're playing is a drunk racist asshole.
>Of course you don't, but it HELPS A FUCKING LOT. >And if you have some aversion to ever making any effort to act at all, you are refusing to be a better roleplayer than you currently are.
Like I said, being a good actor isn't a prerequisite to being a good roleplayer, and being a good actor doesn't necessarily make you a better roleplayer. I'm saying this from the position of being a DM. Different players have different comfort levels when it comes to this kind of thing, and a good DM should be able to accomodate all types of players.
Also, from my own personal experience, I find that the over the top actor types of players are often some of the most obnoxious and tend to be the biggest attention seekers, which in a cooperative roleplaying game is not a desirable quality.
Matt does a great job with helping new players along and putting on a good show for viewers, something I've noticed nearly every other person who streams tabletop games isn't capable of doing. Seriously, just try watching other tabletop streams. It's awful.
As a DM he's a good innovator and just as good of a bullshitter. Any good DM knows how to innovate and bullshit. It's rare that you see him looked stumped or give away that his players just did something he did not plan for. He also doesn't value his NPCs and villains to the point that he'll protect them from the PCs humiliating or utterly destroying them. He allowed a vampire boss to get impaled by dicks made of sunlight when I could see most DM's not wanting that to be the way their badass villain goes out and doing whatever handwave they've gotta do to stop that. He also incorporates player's backstories into the games very well. The players are the priority to him.
The only bad things I can say about him as a DM is that he doesn't seem to challenge his players as much as he should. They've never really faced off against a threat just as or bigger than themselves yet. They've had a few close calls sure, but I'd really like to see him throw harder encounters at his group. I think they can handle it.
Also, as a final note, thank god Orion is off the show. He was really obnoxious.
He and everyone at the table are clearly having a fantastic time, so as a DM he is great. Are there things he could improve on? Sure, but for someone who has a full time job voice acting and on top of it runs a weekly 3-4 hour DnD stream for a group of 6 he does an incredible job.
>>44610067 >I find that the over the top actor types of players are often some of the most obnoxious and tend to be the biggest attention seekers, which in a cooperative roleplaying game is not a desirable quality.
I think the best game would be one with all actors (isn't this how Critical Role works?) but imagine if you have or two actors then two or three regular people.
Alice delivers a rousing speech in her best acting voice, then the GM says to Bob, "Okay, and what do you do?"
It's a tough act to follow, and it just makes the game awkward.
>>44610209 I vastly prefer Marisha to Orion, so that doesn't really bother me. She can be kinda obnoxious and I would prefer if she wasn't there sometimes especially because she has the unenviable task of being one of the only really "good" characters when Ashley Johnson isn't there, but at least she never ruins the game or makes anyone else at the table uncomfortable. The moments where Orion would spend 40 minutes shopping or would actively subvert other players ideas to make himself the star is the very definition of being "that guy."
>>44610152 >Seriously, just try watching other tabletop streams. It's awful.
One of my groups decided when we started that they wanted to livestream the game, and I was all for it because it's been something I've been interested in doing for years but never had a recourse.
It...is not an easy thing to have fun doing. I like the process, I like messing with the tech, I like trying to come up with a cool identity and put in the effort and make it look professional and slick. The problem is the people. They're uninterested, uninvolved, and just not in the same headspace. To them, it's just a negligible facet of the game. They have no interest in putting in the same level of work, of being charismatic or engaging or outgoing. I couldn't even get them all together on a call to test streaming software if I wanted.
And that's exactly what I see with a lot of groups who try the same thing, they're just not interested. It's like trying to put on a stage show where only the host actually wants to be there.
I wish it was something I could put effort into and enjoy the reward, but every time I say "Hey guys, I wanted to try X", I just get a reaction that seems like everyone is wondering why I care so much.
I think I'm a good DM, I put a lot of work into improving all the time, I just think a lot of that tends to be wasted on groups who couldn't be bothered.
>>44610209 Lesser of two evils as far as I'm concerned. Orion reminded me of an awful player I used to have. Rule bending, talking over everyone, spotlight on me, creep-types should stick to single player rpgs.
For me as a viewer, my issue with Orion was that he was clearly trying to min-max and metagame at certain points, and he could only play it off as Tiberius being a literal dunce in social situations for so long (due to have what, 6 Wisdom)?
>>44610303 That's another reason for me having mixed emotions about that. I feel bad for the guy. His personality makes it easy for that whole group of friends to dogpile on him whenever something bad happens, and he obviously has troubles dealing with it.
>>44608679 Go look at a photo of Piers Morgan, no face will ever look punchable in comparison again. If I had to guess, it's the seeming smugness. So definitely go look at a photo of Morgan, and imagine punching that.
Anyway, as for Matt himself he's pretty good. My biggest issue is that his combats are usually boring to watch; if you're going to have 7+ players you really need to work extra hard to keep your players moving so that the game doesn't come to a halt every time a fight breaks out, especially since they're putting on a show for an audience.
>>44610152 >>44610209 >>44610303 Orion was admittedly annoying as a player and I don't fault them for kicking him but I did like his character. I find Sam's character to be the most obnoxious part of the entire show though. He's a decent player and obviously the group likes him but every time he uses bardic inspiration I die a little inside. Also the whole scrying through shit thing.
You probably are a good GM. Anyone who makes an effort to keep getting better is, even if they're already pretty good to start. If you're never satisfied with where you stand, what you've added to your world, how to handle x situation, ect. your enthusiasm will shine through your GMing and that alone helps make a game better. Just look at those GMs who take a module, run it, and add no flavor to their games with a group of newbies online. Everyone always looks so miserable, because they're only getting one half of what tabletop rpgs are. You definitely nailed the head on the effort issue too. I've run games for years, can't help but feel bad when I see a tabletop stream where only the GM is pushing things along as everyone else gives 'em one words answers and doesn't invest themselves in their character and the setting.
>>44610426 Scanlan is definitely a "love him or hate him" character, which I think is fine. Everyone shit talks him cause he thinks he's hot shit, but as of late he has really been pulling his weight, both in-combat and in social/interparty situations.
I think that's cause since Orion left, the experienced DnD players know they will need to pick up the slack of losing a pretty strong burst mage, and we see Percy, Keyleth, Vex, and Scanlan all trying to pick up the slack, especially now that they're starting to get into the 6th level and higher spells.
Vax and Grog do well with single target damage, and Pike (when Ashley is able to play or be Skyped in) does the job of healbot and buffbot well, though that's been due to Matt throwing things at them that they can handle (mostly; the ghosts or whatever that possess the party members once could've lead to a TPK).
>>44610626 I enjoy Acquisition Inc, but yeah. You don't really get much out of it besides neat props, jokes, and silly gimmicks. I feel bad for Perkins. Like, he's probably fine with how things turned out, but a part of him probably wishes he was running a more serious campaign on stage with all sorts of intrigue.
>>44609257 I think that is a substantial generalization; I won't do accents because I don't want to come off as cartoonish but tone, intonation, word choice and mannerism are all things I try to shape when playing a character.
That being said, I would happily say that the things you say he does poorly are more important in creating a exciting narrative.
>>44610736 As a DM, watching him execute that one completely-phoned-in game where he just put a bunch of pieces of paper on the table and some figures and pretended it was an epic assault, and that game where he had to do that miserable Drizzt bullshit, were some incredibly painful moments for me.
You know he wants to be doing more, but the people cutting his paychecks keep telling him that he needs to make it more about in-brand references and committee-created junk.
Not to mention the fact that the players have been at it for a decade, and none of them even know how to read a character sheet.
>>44610508 I've been an artist all my life, so being hyper-critical and never satisfied with my work is pretty par for the course. I exist in a perpetual state of needing to do better. Which has always just made sense to me, but it leaves me completely stunned when no one else thinks like that. Like, when people just have no interest in ever trying to do better than they are right now, I can't comprehend.
But I know I won't ever just like, magically acquire a group of people who are all excited and engaged and want to actually put on a show with the intent of improving, which is why I try not to dwell on it. It's just not something I was lucky enough to end up with.
>>44610813 >>44610895 That's gimmicks for ya. I think the only thing that really bugged me was when Omen did that one kinda half assed roleplaying line and got a pop for it from the crowd. It wasn't even that great, but it was legit the first non-joke that was said within the first three hours so I guess it was the best roleplay moment they ever had. I'd just like to see Perkins give 'em a legit story to work with, some sorta villain for them to work up to fighting, anything that's a break from their current "Today we're doing X because Y happened. Go." setup. Hell, I'd like to see Perkins just host a legit game for some different group, his current one is all set on the jokey stuff.
>>44611141 My fantasy is that Bootsy actually has RPG experience and the others don't (James and Mike, maybe Kyle Justin?), so he GMs the game. They do the whole thing as a semi-improv Board James episode, with real anecdotes but people acting kinda in-character.
It's ok if you don't like something. What I can't get is why you hate something that turns a bit popular. Oh, and I haven't watch any of his videos. But now and then I see the "I hate Wheaton", "I hate Felicia Day". "I hate this". Grow a bit. You "hate" Day 'cause she's a girl? And, of course, in your agenda, girls don't should be allowed to play. Good luck, buddy. You know what? Having girls in a gaming group is great. As players, not as "I wanna date someone, let's invite her". Maybe you should try.
>>44609624 Literally what is your point? They dont make the show to cater to people who want to play the game but have to play it with downies, my sessions are just as good as critical roles- minus the voicework, you're just a bum
>>44611026 >Like, when people just have no interest in ever trying to do better than they are right now, I can't comprehend.
Not to turn this into a GM wankfest, but that's why some people will never or shouldn't GM lol. They like it easy and with as little effort as possible. You definitely got the right mindset. I was fortunate with my current group of seven years now. We started back in highschool when most of us were in the edgy/weeaboo phase, so I'm not so sure how much I can chalk up to growing up, but over the years some of my group went from insufferable to being great rpers who appreciate what I do for 'em. That said, I still had to trim fat. I kicked out five people in total to get as good a group as I got. Some people just can't play or play in a way that ruins the game for others. Only advice I can give ya is just keep running one shots, make note of players you enjoyed or you think have potential and keep bringing them back til you can fill a full group with all the ones you liked playing with and work with them so their characters have goals they want to accomplish during your game.
>>44610303 Thank god he has gone, he derailed so many sessions- the god awful 4 hour shopping one. He got a dragon pet to be the new lol randum trinket, he made the mirror thing despite matt saying no, he stole lauras thunder with the arrow up the trap, he got way too drunk at the table and made keyleth's player so uncomfortable the entire group was red in the face. Fuck that guy, goodbye to him, glad to see he has gone mad on twitch.
>>44611307 In the unlikely case this is not a troll, as someone who hates Wheaton with a passion and dislikes Felicia Day strongly, let me tell you one thing: I don`t dislike her because "she is a girl". I dislike her because of what she chooses to represent, because of her stupid opinions and because she is a massive shill. She is the personfication of vapid "geek chic". Fuck her. There are a bunch of females in gaming that I like. Dodger would be one example.
Who do you think will be the first character to die? I was betting on Taliesin keeping Percy on the Whitestone Council and retiring the character but now I think it might be Vax, I don't believe Liam for a second, dude's got a death wish
>>44611578 >he got way too drunk at the table and made keyleth's player so uncomfortable the entire group was red in the face. Wait was he actually drunk that one time though no one blushed harder than marisha a few sessions ago over Vax's confession and kiss, that was kawaii as fuck, she even hid herself behind her folder
>>44609257 >This is something 99.9999999999% of DMs are too miserable to ever even consider doing. Never a DM detected. It's not that DMs don't want to, it's that the quality of our terrible acting would also bring the game down and ruin immersion if it's a remotely non-comedic game. Not everyone has an effeminate/neutral voice that allows them to act out females without it sounding absurd.
>>44612605 It's pretty obvious Liam wants Vax to die in some sort of blaze of glory. He probably planned a death for Vax with Matt, can't really see Matt killing off anyone without the player's permission.
>>44612721 He has talked a couple of times about how he wants to do another character. He wants to play an 'evil' character, though Matt is saying they would have to work something out and he seems pretty negative on the whole evil PC thing.
OFFICIAL CRITICAL ROLE POWER RANKING >Gilmore-tier Taliesin's hands >High-tier Vax or is it Vex? Scanlan in combat Keyleth in combat or funny RP Grog in combat >Mid-tier Vex or is it Vax? Percy why couldn't anyone make him talk sooner why oh my god I was pulling my hair out Grog any other time >Low-tier Scanlan any other time Keyleth in serious RP >Shit-tier Trinket >Not enough information tier Pike >>44612777 I know, I wrote the first post. Nice jackpot
>>44612887 They're very clearly in it for the story and the roleplaying experience, not for the nitty gritty of combat. They know their character enough to get by but Matt definitely babies them a little and will usually tell them stuff so they don't really have to learn. It doesn't help that this is still the first campaign they've ever played and the first 2-2.5 years were spent playing Pathfinder and they only swapped to 5e for the stream.
My 2 copper: He's quite good when he hits his stride and (a minority of) the slightly spoiled players aren't yipping for the "talking stick" with their power gamey acquisitions. However, the druid girl is quite annoying. IMHO the fact that he's been sleeping with the worst player (her) and is clearly talking to her about the game in off time is the most obvious detriment to the show.
Forty sessions guys, really. The fact that they have years of campaign time in Pathfinder just means they should pick this stuff up quickly.
It isn't just that it annoys me as a DM. It annoys me as, I don't know, a professional (in other parts of my life). These people are doing a show. They should respect their audience and the fact that they are being paid enough to at least invest a bit of time and read the damn PHB - at least the sections on their characters.
I've run something like 11 sessions now for my 11 year old daughter. And in those sessions I have purposefully avoided worrying about rules - practically theater of the mind and all that. But she has, I feel, a better command of the game system than these people seem to.
'I have no idea how to do this' he/she says for the nth time...just kills me. I'd have thought that Matt would have started to put pressure on them out of game to get their shit together.
>>44612957 >Aw Lyra was ok, FD was clearly in on the joke that her character was completely insufferable
I really would have enjoyed Lyra/FD if she hadn't tried to suck all of the oxygen out of the room. She acted like it was a contest to get attention. "Have to make an impact on the show". If she just would have toned it down she would have been fun and great.
>>44608552 I would love for Matt to do like a half hour show on doing voices. Give us about five minutes of a sample voice, talk about it. Do this about four or five times. Maybe talk a bit about the characters he does with the voice.
>>44613117 Honestly not sure. She came super prepared - although Matt did help her out with a few terms. If that was her first game ever though, amazing. I think that it would be in the show's best interest to have her back, because that's a damn good character.
So let's say they decide to bring in a new VA as a permanent player to fill in their caster deficiencies. Who would you want it to be? can't be Friedle or McGlynn, sorry guys >>44613180 I thought that was just a fan thing
>>44613174 Some of the subscription money goes to charity, but at least 50% of it goes to the channel itself, which means paying all the crew people and the entertainers making content. No one would devote that much time of their lives to something they weren't being paid for.
Orion specifically said that losing Critical Role income was a big deal, so they probably make a decent amount of cash from their fucking legion of people paying $5 a month to watch them.
>>44613250 >zahra is a warlock >percy was multiclassing in warlock and caused a ton of trouble for the group because of it This is actually a good idea. >>44613264 >I have no idea how much though. It can't be that much, right? But that it is happening at all...honestly it just angers me. Why, because people get paid to play a game? Welcome to sports, it's where America's been since 1871.
>>44613300 Obviously. Gets stagnant with the usuals just... being too damn usual. I think its a show that's had a few amazing episodes. Trust me, I've enjoyed the content. More of the same though, and the lettuce may wilt - give me plot twists and guest stars. Not about the old players just controlling the game with pointless powergaming.
>>44613346 >Why, because people get paid to play a game? Cost of the show vs number of subscribers. Also, the cast doesn't seem to behave as if it is a ton of cash. It is there, but I don't think it is a make/break income source for them. At least they don't seem to treat it as such.
>Everyone knows all eagles are actually voiced by Brian Blessed. It's all recorded in a studio, non-human animals don't actually make sounds >So Brian Blessed does eagles, what about the others? >They're all Dee Bradley Baker. Dying.
>>44613473 It's not make or break income at all. Matt has talked about it several times off-stream, they do it for the community and for charity, not for money, and if it ever became something that was not fun for them to do he'd take the game and go back to playing at home. If Orion made a big deal out of it it's because he's a drama queen.
>>44613075 Adventure Zone is bad at remembering rules, these guys get caught up and forget their bonus action or bonus to a roll and check the sheet. The worst one is Scanlan who has the most to know at any given time.
>>44613653 And they still get more. The only non-dice gift I was ever comfortable with was the flying-carpet knitted prop. It was useful and handmade, so they weren't shelling out cash for these people. Of course, the carpet lost its flight like 2 sessions later. The realistic bear and the multiple knives Vax got were probably the last straw.
>>44613862 I mean even they started to feel weird about it, it's really great that they have a big community but it must be emotionally draining to have to thank everyone who sends you stuff. I think the direction they went in around Christmas time (please donate to charity here's a list of charities to donate to or you can send in hand-made things but you really don't need to buy us anything please don't buy anything) has worked well since.
>>44610321 While I think you're being unnecessarily acerbic, /tg/ is definitely buttblasted by the fact that 99% of all games (including theirs) are shitty low energy boring games that would almost definitely be improved if people gave enough of a shit to ham up their acting. The play-acting itself is mostly just a side effect of giving a shit.
Recording your own sessions is a real eye-opener. GMs are too busy during the game to notice how fucking dreadful they are.
>>44615241 I certainly agree with you, that almost every game I've been a part of or sat in on, tends to just be a bunch of idiots mumbling to eachother and then rolling some dice, and then waddling off to /tg/ to greentext about how they're in super-awesome groups that do super-awesome things all the time.
But if you try suggesting that maybe people give a fuck about their hobby, or put a little effort in, the only thing you'll get out of them is "Waaahhh I'm autistic and hate the sound of my voice and doing a voice breaks my immersion and I prefer text and why should I have to put in effort its just for fun stop telling me I'm doing it wrong!"
Geek & Sudnry is absolute shit but i'm actually very surprised at how much i've been enjoying Critical Role.
That being said all their guest stars and shit are cringesuperstars. Even when Diesel was on it, it was really campy and just a marketing ploy and it showed. Still when the core six are playing it's a nice watch to have on in the background as I paint or whatever.
>>44615437 The Vin show was dumb, because it was 30 minutes long, and pretty damned obvious that no one there was comfortable, beyond "Hey we're just sitting down to play with Vin Diesel because this is the advertising deal we scored with the movie company."
He's obviously an awesome guy and I want to see him in a real roleplaying game situation, but a place where he's just dropped into a character and told "Be entertaining" is clearly not his comfort zone, and it showed.
>>44616418 >That's the easiest accent in the fucking world. Fuck yeah it is, that's why me and another guy in my group independently decided to make our characters Russian Protip: pronounce your L's in the back of your throat
>>44609257 Episodes 24 - 36 were all about the Briarwoods/Percy's backstory. There wasn't anything that I can recall that deviated from that course. Maybe the roc, but even that was to build credibility with the people of Emon, which was just another way the story could have gone. Just like how they completely circumvented fighting some version/avatar of Vecna for the time being. And now, they're probably going to head back to Emon and see that Uriel is free from the Briarwoods influence. Now they can start a new arc or revisit some old hooks.
>>44619030 I think you miss the point. The Briarwood arc IS Percy's backstory. But outside of being that, it has no actual relevance to anything. The king being mind-controlled is just a fabricated plot device to kick them out of the city so they have a drive to go kill the Briarwoods. I'm positive the Vecna shit was just a tacked-on rider at the end because otherwise there would be no real point to them fucking a whole town to death.
But what happened before that? A session spent on Keyleth backstory that had nothing to do with anything (Fire people in Fireland) that lasted one session, preceded by "lock away the evil artifact and forget about it".
The min-plots aren't miserable, they just don't lead anywhere. There's no revelation at the end of any quest, no "Oh THAT'S why" moment, no piece of the puzzle that gets put into place. It's just episodic content that is resolved after a few sessions and then everyone forgets it happened because it's on to the next thing.
>>44619146 I can see that too. I just feel that the whole stretch of episodes there was pretty story driven, yes by Percy, but I think it would have been a decent hook even if Percy had not been there (which I actually would have preferred, because I don't like Percy/Taliesin).
But I still feel there's two strong arcs, from where the stream begins to Vasselheim (Horn of Orcus) and then the Briarwood/Percy arc. Yeah, there's a decent slump of side-quest tom foolery in between, and I think that was because they wanted to try a few things specific for streaming, and possibly to kinda figure out some stuff since Ashley was leaving again, but I don't think either of those are too bad. Thinking on it now, it would be nice if maybe the same entity was pulling the strings behind the Briarwoods and the Beholder. Maybe make that a bit more cohesive.
I hope we'll seeing events on a grander scale, especially since the character's levels are peaking into the teens.
>>44619727 >I hope we'll seeing events on a grander scale, especially since the character's levels are peaking into the teens. You can't just introduce a BBEG in a campaign at level fucking 13. It makes no sense. That would be like Lord of the Rings only telling us who Sauron is and that Frodo needs to go to Mt. Doom halfway through the third book.
>Thinking on it now, it would be nice if maybe the same entity was pulling the strings behind the Briarwoods and the Beholder. Maybe make that a bit more cohesive. Considering the Beholder was empowered by a "horn of Orcus", and the Briarwoods were doing something that involved summoning Vecna, it's pretty safe to say that outside of complete ass-pull logic, the two events can't possibly have anything to do with eachother, because the deities involved fucking hate one another and they have completely different domains of operation, not to mention the concept of two evil deities working together and not screwing eachother over is a bit absurd.
Matt Mercer was a huge inspiration for me to get into the game (yeah yeah I'm a newfag), so his style of DM'ing is something I try to emulate. Luckily, I'm actually fairly good with voices and acting (I do some voice work as part of my job duties), and doing improv in character has turned out to be incredibly fun, and actually doable.
>>44619791 Because you can't introduce characters at anytime in the campaign, every character has to be planned out from the beginning? It's just a different way to play, and if that doesn't work for you as a viewer, that's ok.
Also, there is no possible way that any DM could have made the two separate events into one larger scheme? Maybe the beholder doesn't has an original evil artifact and maybe the briarwoods are trying to bring back an unknown entity. If the devil is in the details, then just change the details. As a DM building his own campaign, Mercer would be plenty capable of doing so. So if he would have it may have been more satisfactory.
It seems, though, that maybe he just doesn't have the adventure planned out that far in advance. Would it be nice if he did? Sure, but I'm not gonna fault him for it, because it still works for the group. Now if the group starts making those complaints, then you have a problem.
>>44620200 Look, do us all a favor and don't defend sloppiness with your own need to be anti-critical because your default state for consuming entertainment is "Duhuurrrrr".
Yes, the game works for the players, because they don't care or don't pay attention to those things. But to anyone on the outside, it's just an ugly patchwork of ideas, like a kid playing with toys and making Superman and Yoda team up to fight Godzilla. Is it entertaining? Sure, I guess. But please don't pretend it makes sense, even with your brain firmly set to "Off".
I know he doesn't write that far in advance. That's the fucking point. Things would actually make sense if he bothered to.
I'm not sure why YOU take personal offense at basic criticism of someone else's work. Unless you think that criticism is "mean" and not allowed.
>>44619146 For a moment, let's assume that Percy isn't there at all, and the party has no idea that the Briarwoods are evil assholes that should be stopped/killed. Let's try to logically go through the chain of events that would've happened from when they arrive in Emon (as VM would've been invited to the state dinner even w/o Percy's request).
> Briarwoods invite VM to Whitestone for the Winter's Crest festival, as it's their turn this year to host one. > VM accepts, dicks around Emon for a bit, then arrives maybe a couple days before the festival happens in Whitestone > VM sees the town, begin fact finding > ohshitthey'reevil.jpg
The rest of the episodes/arc play out like they do/would, though they'd probably have to deal with whatever avatar of Vecna got summoned, if not the big dude himself, which would probably lead to a TPK if they even attempted to fight him.
Percy being there let them get to it a bit faster and gave VM a more personal/vested interest in saving Whitestone and stopping the Briarwoods.
Keep in mind that their entire adventure (thanks to the little 20 minute clip they released in episode 36) helped fill in what we - the viewers - were lacking in information, and that the entire adventure so far has basically been one story arc after another.
What the hell does that have to do with anything? Who said anything about novels and memoirs?
My point is that if you roleplay characters as living their lives instead of characters in a story, it's going to be small mostly disconnected chapters. I see no reason why a DM should force players into a narrative when everyone is happy taking turns being the one who's the center.
The Briarwoord arc is entirely self-contained. It existed only because it was time to address Percy's backstory. If he wasn't there, it would just be another episodic adventure with no pay-off as the villains aren't leading anywhere and nothing changes at the end of it.
This is just my opinion, so take it for what you will.
I've done a large, narrative campaign for my friends before, starting at level 2 and ending at level 20. I knew who the final BBEG was going to be, but to get the players to that point I had to start off small and chain events that were seemingly unrelated into the BBEG.
Matt's already said/hinted that there is/are/will be dark tidings on the horizon for the world they're on, and that VM is probably the people best suited to handle the threat. The Hunter's Mark guild master said so, the head priest of Kord said so, hell Bahamut gave one of his most loyal worshipers a vision quest and had her delve into the fucking Underdark to get a Horn of Orcus out of whatever the fuck was down there before it burst onto the surface and ass-raped everyone.
Matt probably has a loose story or overarching plot in his head, he's just letting the players fill in the blanks.
>>44620671 I would have to go back and watch the 20 minute clip about their adventures prior to Critical Role starting, but just within the show itself we've had a Paladin of Bahamut get a vision quest from her god to go into the Underdark and find whatever was lurking down there. VM goes down as a favor to Allura and finds it's a freaking Horn of Orcus.
They seal it away, and due to their own dickery get roped into joining a guild. The guild has a secret though, in that they are all allies of Ioun, the god of knowledge (and may or may not be what allows Ioun to have eyes on mortal affairs thanks to the brand they got).
Grog gets a bit of one-on-one time with the head priest of Kord after his second bout in the fighting pit, and keeps it together long enough to learn that the priest himself, if not Kord proper. is aware of dark shadows moving about on the mortal plane, and says that he may call upon VM's help if things go sideways.
And now they just stopped the Briarwoods from summoning up an avatar of Vecna, if not the Lich god himself. There's obviously some sort of motivation or turmoil going on in the other planes of existence and they're starting to spill over into the mortal plane.
There may not be a full/overarching plot or story to everything, but to me, these episodic adventures are all leading to some boiling point where someone or something is going to try and make a move on the Material Plane and make it their own, and fuck (figuratively and/or literally) whatever mortals get in their way, and the gods may not be enough to stop whatever it is will go down.
But Vox Machina could be the group that just happens to be in the right place, at the right time, to stop such things from happening.
>>44620822 >and finds it's a freaking Horn of Orcus. Clearly not all that big of a deal, considering all the Beholder managed to do with it was...nothing.
>And now they just stopped the Briarwoods from summoning up an avatar of Vecna Which was pretty clearly an ass-pull.
>but to me, these episodic adventures are all leading to some boiling point Yeah, no shit. You say "Da big ebil is comin'!" enough times and it actually starts sounding like you have a plan, but we know more than likely it'll just be Matt pulling whatever CR20 enemies he can out of the monster manual and calling them the BBEG.
>But Vox Machina could be the group that just happens to be in the right place, at the right time, to stop such things from happening. Gee, you fucking think? Hell, maybe they might even get a CR-appropriate fight out of it! Nah.
>>44608552 He's shit. If it weren't for his "I'm blubbering and snarling during speeches" gimmick, he would be universally panned for his directionless nonsense and tight reins on his players. They've been playing for years and this coddling milksop has enabled their shit play so badly that they're an entire group of That Guys that can't manage to learn even their own class's rules.
>>44608765 Anon, you are gullible as fuck and hoodwinked by some pretty shallow smoke and mirrors. Gimmickry is not mastery.
>seamlessly intertwines PC backstory in with campaign Which is why the "campaign" bit is emotionless set pieces to the next boss fight and the "backstory" bit is random fucking nods to the character sheets and abandoned plots?
>amazing NPCs The only thing different about them is the voices. And even then, not always. There are only three personalities: Evil McBabyfucker, Scholarly Obstruction, and Ally Partyfellator.
>great at describing environments/situations; immersive Go back and listen to it again. At one point he describes a cave (with more Uhs than relevant words) as three different sizes, wet, and then dry clay. That whole adventure was tunnels that connected to themselves with no possibility of deviation, by the way.
>coaches newbie players through decisions, and doesn't balk to more experienced optimizers He ignores the problems that optimizers are presenting to a session, regularly, and is so bad with newbie players that his close, personal friends still act like awkward Babby's First Adventure several years after first starting to play with him. He doesn't give a fuck about the players as long as they stay on his rails. And he will make them stay on his rails.
>allows room for creativity, letting players attempt whatever they want Now you're just making shit up. He's always saying No to the players in complete shut downs. Not No, But, or following through on creative consequences, but just flat No.
>always seems prepared This one I'll give you, but that's because he does not allow deviation from previous plans. The amount of times he just cornered the progression of the players during that first season of the podcast was mind boggling. I kept waiting for it to even out, open up, become fun the whole time because everyone hyped it so hard. But it was shit the whole time. I can't believe how little everyone involved knew.
>because the deities involved fucking hate one another Be like >>44620702 >>44620822 and pay attention to where the party has been so far off stream, and their history in general. They clearly state there is some kind of conflict between demons/devils or whatever brewing. Since day 1. I'm glad you picked up on the subtleties of his plot.
>>44622672 >Evil McBabyfucker, Scholarly Obstruction, and Ally Partyfellator. Where do black powder merchant (or any merchant that's not Gilmore) fall? or the orc who that 1v1'd Grog? or the guy who spotted the dragon? or the guy who ran the brothel / club? or the people running the Slayer's Take?
I can't be assed to remember that many names for a campaign I'm not in, but I remember each one as individuals and how they contributed to the game.
>Now you're just making shit up. His two "catchphrases" at this point are "How do you want to do this?" and "You can certainly try?" followed by a dice roll. I've seen what you described first hand from aspie neckbeards and first time DMs, and it is no where near the same thing.
>I can't believe how little everyone involved knew. But you just called them baby's first adventurers, who presumably would know very little? Why are you so mad?
>>44621021 >Gee, you fucking think? Hell, maybe they might even get a CR-appropriate fight out of it! Nah.
Like what? A Beholder (CR13)...nah An Adult White Dragon (CR13)....nah A Behir (CR11)....nah A Rakshasa (CR13)....nah A Roc (CR11)....nah
Each one in a different, varied environment where both the players and the DM used terrain to their advantage, and most of which had goons or mooks with them.
I would even argue that each one was appropriate for the story (yes I know some were picked by chat, but he integrated it seamlessly). I don't know what the world of Tal'Dorei is like, other than what I'm show on screen.
Literally what more do you want? You understand what "nitpicking" is versus actual criticism right?
>>44622833 Because they are professionals, who have been doing this for three years, and given a team of tech heads that don't know tech. It's a disaster from top to bottom, and the incompetence just makes it sting all the more when over-impressed fanboys start going off on tangents. Nigger, the characters you listed are fat Nothings. They don't have personalities or interests or intricacies of motive.
In almost DM advice thread, you see a lot of the same ideas and sentiments pop up:
>Engage your players, pay attention to who is/isn't having fun >Be prepared >Keep an eye on the clock >Don't smother your players, but don't lose control of the situation >Keep notes on each players (stats / backstory) >*combat tips*
He literally does all of this in spades, as well as bringing a lot more to the table than a lot of other DMs out there (drawing his own maps, voices/acting, figures, etc), but people ITT still trash him and call him a bad DM.
>>44623687 >>44623698 As a newer DM I've been paying a lot of attention to the advice threads and what they tell you to do and as far as I'm concerned you're spot on. All of these things are what I'm told to do frequently and, while I may not be an actor or be able to do voices on the same level as him I noticed that does do all of the things people keep telling me to do. Which is why I'm confused by people in this thread being so angry at him for what he's doing when he (seemingly) hits every point people keep telling me is important.
My old DM tried to do voices sometimes. He had 4. >any gnome or shopkeeper, sounded like jerry lewis >all dwarves and any orc, sounded like a Scottish guy with a stutter and lisp >all Nobels and guards and armed bandits, were something akin to foghorn leghorn >all female npcs sounded like a gruff tranny
He tried, it was funny at times. But it was painful to hear.
>>44612698 >ForeverDM who doesn't realise that different players have different tastes. Not all players enjoy shitty 'acting' with every NPC (not saying this guy is a shit actor). Don't fool yourself that every group is going to react well to smeared accents or fucking awkward delivery. It's like playing music, some people like it and can tie it in appropriately, but oftentimes it's just grade A cringe.
>>44610173 Was about to say the exact same thing. We don't all live in a theatre district and find high quality actors, most 'actors' are more fucking cringe in an RPG than people who reference memes and have trouble paying attention.
>>44626162 >are more fucking cringe in an RPG than people who reference memes and have trouble paying attention.
I would rather people who were enthusiastic about the game, and are shitty actors, then that. Every time.
>>44626216 >"These high-quality shows are a bad influence because they do an inadequate job of preparing a new person entering the hobby by setting unreal expectations that can never be met and it's very likely the players will come to expect such things provided to them without any input of their own"
How is that any different than any other medium that involves people who are really good at any given thing?
>X-Games is bad because it gives people the wrong idea about an activity >Professional MMA is bad because it gives people the wrong idea about fighting professionally >Olympics are bad because it gives people the wrong idea about any given sport.
>>44628489 I've been trying to get my group of tabletop friends to play for the past 6 months or so, it's just that they've been too busy or their work schedules haven't been able to sync up to where we all can get a day or even 6 hours off to play.
But now they are, and I'm pushing hard for us to play (me stuck in the forever DM role).
>s "These high-quality shows are a bad influence because they do an inadequate job of preparing a new person entering the hobby by setting unreal expectations that can never be met and it's very likely the players will come to expect such things provided to them without any input of their own".
>>44613251 Yuri Lowenthal played with them once as a Halfling Monk a long time ago.
They've talked about guests before, but have never mentioned someone else who was actually interested in playing with them. Matt (and every DM, as far as I know) said he prefers 4-6 players, so I don't think they're ever replacing Tiberius.
>>44631770 i think it depends on the attitude/mentality of both parties more than "the right people" getting in
the attitude in your pic is the wrong one to have since most tabletop games are generally seen as a social thing to begin with and excluding newcomers because you think they're "the wrong people" without even giving him or her a chance or showing them how it works just hurts the hobby much more
but at the same time going in expecting everything to change for you is very selfish and creates the former attitude/mentality which in turn hurts the hobby
Thread replies: 236 Thread images: 19
Thread DB ID: 378989
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org with the post's information.