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Magic: the Gathering Wednesday Flavor General...
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>You are a planeswalker.
>In the vast Multiverse, only you and some other chucklefucks know of the countless worlds beyond your own.

Welcome to the Magic: the Gathering Flavor General thread!

Helpful links:
>Uncharted Realms Archive
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/columns/uncharted-realms

ARCHIVE http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Archive.aspx?tag=unchartedrealms&description=Uncharted%20Realms

>Savor the Flavor/Taste the Magic archive
ARCHIVE http://www.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/archive.aspx?page=13&tag=savortheflavor&description=taste%20the%20magic

>Planeswalker's Guides
ARCHIVE http://pastebin.com/Ttgtz6A9

>Set Trailers
http://pastebin.com/ayJntkE0

>Current Status of Planeswalkers:
2014: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/checking-planeswalkers-2014-06-16
2015: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/checking-planeswalkers-2015-2015-08-19

>Doug Beyer's Tumblr
http://dougbeyermtg.tumblr.com/

Reminder: Keep bait, shitposting, and arguments to a minimum--try to focus on lore discussion. No snowflakes in the Wednesday thread. Ignore chandere posts.

We have an IRC for more conversational discussions and no small amount of fucking about: #mtgwaifulore on irc.rizon.net

Starter topic: This week's Uncharted Realms is "Reclamation," by Mel Li.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/uncharted-realms/reclamation-2016-01-06

I'm not really going to pretend that we're going to talk about it that much, though, given what we found out yesterday: The Gatewatch successfully destroys Kozilek and Ulamog. Your thoughts?
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For those who haven't had the chance to see the art book yet.
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I didn't even read the UR, I just scrolled through it and decided it wasnt worth my time. Way shorter than what we've been getting, and not about Chandra showing up to light Obnob on fire.
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>>44604510
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>>44604510
I really hope this causes Time Spiral 2.
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>>44604519
It's about how there's still land under the blight, so Zendikar can be reclaimed.
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>>44604510
Goddammit...
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>>44604510
Man, idiots who haven't been paying attention to how the titans work are going to be really confused when Kozilek and Ulamog show up again. And Ugin is going to be really pissed off as well.
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>today's UR
F I L L E R
I
L
L
E
R
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>>44604475
>The Gatewatch successfully destroys Kozilek and Ulamog. Your thoughts?

Dissapoinment, sadness and overall angry at this lame crap.
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>>44604937
Well, Jace was theorizing that one could pull the Titans all the way into the planes and THEN kill them, which seems to be what is being described.
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>>44604937
I'm half expecting wizards to just go and say Jace was very clever, super friends win!

Then Bolas shows up and fucks everything up again
>>
Why are Zombies 2/2s?

Are you trying to tell me that a shambling, mindless husk of a man is equal to a Knight? Zombies should be 1/2's.
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>>44605432
Because ubiquitous 1/2 tokens suck balls, ever tried marking them with dice? No thanks
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Requesting more Vol the Coward things
He's technically not a snowflake, shut up.
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>>44605432
They hit with unholy force. Imagine a 1/1 corpse with a 1/1 Unholy Strength-like effect.
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>>44604510
>>44604522


The Eldrazi are definitely NOT destroyed. Defeated maybe, but Ulamog and Kozilek cannot be killed off for real that quickly.

Is Zendikar safe? For the large foreseeable future yes. With Ulamog and Kozilek chomping down on Zendikar, Zendikar bit back. They'll be searching for easier prey/planes to eat now, but their total power has weakened.

This means that Ulamog and Kozilek are shelved for now, and storywise they'll be weaker the next time they show up.
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>>44604937
This, seriously. All of the people who are crying about it being lame that they win are idiots.

First of all: of course they were going to win. Have you ever seen a movie or watched a TV show or read anything? It's a class bait and switch wherein the protagonists get their shit kicked in the whole time until the miraculously pull off a victory in the end. Is it great storytelling? No, it's pretty cliched. But are you expecting literary masterworks from a story told in the flavor text of a trading card game?

Second: this definitely isn't the end for Ulamog and Kozilek. Ugin is going to be pissed / right.
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>>44604937
>>44605095
>>44605413
>>44605779
The plan was to bind the eldrazi even further to their physical forms, so the majority of them were stuck in the prisons, not just the physical bodies.
It's not "They destroyed the physical bodies of the eldrazi and are expecting them respawn." It's "They dragged Ulamog and Kozilek down a few dimesnions and killed them with hedron prisons and fire.
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>>44605618

I want to hope you're right. Ugin made a pretty good allegory with that whole 'cut off the hand and the body remains', so I'm curious what Jace did that was materially different from what the Hedron stones do by themselves. He wove a pattern, and did it on something other than a hedron. Somehow we are supposed to believe this made the almighty Titans vulnerable?

If he pulled them fully onto Zendikar, shouldn't they have been that much more powerful? I find this solution to be terribly unsatisfying given what we've been led to believe about the Eldrazi.
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>>44605876
He pulled them onto Zendikar straight into a hedron prison that was syphoning and controlling their powers in the first place.
Actually, that's wrong, Nissa turned Zendikar INTO a giant hedron by messing with it's leylines. When Ulamog and Kozilek were pulled in, they were severely weakened. Then Jace outlined another hedron prison for Nissa to "trace" with leylines, trapping them further while Gideon tanked punches.
Then when they were trapped Nissa sent a planes worth of mana through Chandra, who incinerated the eldrazi, who were now fully plane bound instead of chilling in the Blind Eternities.
There's not much left of them.
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>>44605463

>Bolas is doing Bolas things when Ugin bushwhacks him for round 2, messing up a plan majorly and causing Bolas to storm off when he can't easily overpower Ugin
>Figures this is probably all Sarkhan's fault somehow and goes looking for him
>By sheer unlucky coincidence, he keeps homing in on Vol the Coward instead, who begins to go insane as he realizes even planar boundaries and a paradise without dragons won't keep him safe from the horrible, horrible dragons that are chasing him for no reason

Such is a day in the life of Vol.
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>>44605934

You'd really think Sorin would have tried something like that before asking Ugin and Nahiri for help, what with him being absurdly more powerful than the Gatewatch back in the day.
>>
>>44605463
No, he is as Ugin stated that Sarkhan did not exist in this timeline until he arrived on Jund.
>>
>>44605981

Something something couldn't fully pull them into the plane

It would be nice though to have a flashback story with Sorin doing something like draining a whole plane's life force to kill one of the eldrazi's physical forms only to have it retreat to the blind eternities for a century or so and then re-emerge on another plane to his horror.
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>>44605981
Well, before they talked to Ugin they thought that every Eldrazi was a unique Eldrazi instead of there just being three titans and he roped them into his plans by telling them the titans couldn't be killed as soon as he told them.
>>
>>44605981
THATS WHY WE'RE SO ANGRY
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>>44605981
>>44606069
>>44606080
1. Sorin and Nahiri both thought the simple "Fight the spawns" method would work if they did it right until Ugin showed up and explained what the eldrazi were and the hedron prisons.
2. Sorin never really understood the hedrons, just that they worked.
3. Ugin ws very specific about what to do with the hedrons, not letting Nahiri or Sorin realize they could probably use them to doom blade the true eldrazi in the blind eterneties.
4. Sorin isn't green enough to rearrange leylines and turn a plane into a giant hedron. The closest he could do is probably >>44606028
5. It was the white part of Sorin that was able to help seal the eldrazi the way they did in the first place. A temporary solution of "exiling" the opponent until the solution breaks? The hedrons are an artifact Oblivion Ring and everyone present was happy with it at that point.
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>>44605432
It makes sense, they don't feel tired or emotions so they will constantly attack something until they are destroyed
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>>44606080
I'm not angry
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>>44606069

I still have some difficulty that four twentysomethings (Nissa in elf years or whatever, but still) knew better than the motherfucking spirit dragon on the subject.

I mean, the reason cthuluesque things are supposed to be scary is that you really CAN'T kill them. No, not even if you do that, this is not a scale you can do something about. You just make sure they don't awaken and fuck everything up or try to punch them back to sleep, preferably with a large vehicle.

Rather undermines how threatening the Eldrazi are if four Neowalkers, and not even the four strongest, could work together and vape two of them in one go when there were only three titans to begin with.
>>
Daily reminder that Ugin is the 4th titan become sentient
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>>44606103
Ugin has a giant dragon boner for balance, he didn't want the eldrazi destroyed if they were in some way integral to, say, existence. He probably knew you could do what the gatewatch do, but he didn't know what the repercussions of that would be, and deemed it an unacceptable risk. his plan was to study the eldrazi during the time period he was actually dead/a hedron cocoon.
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>>44606099

Will Tamiyo be able to tag in on the blue part of the oath, since Jace has a day job and can't just fuck around the planes like the others can?

C-Could she become the primary blue walker for a while? Please?
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>>44606103
I'm not saying that they know better or that Ugin didn't know you could do that.
He didn't tell anyone because that's not in line with his goals.
He doesn't know what will happen if the Eldrazis were destroyed and maybe something worse will start happening (though it will be odd because nothing apparently happened while they were locked in prison for thousands of years) so that's why he wouldn't have told Sorin or Nahiri they could do that.
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>>44606146
Not until there are enough jaces to build an all-Jace EDH deck.
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>>44606094

See, this whole explanation may be right, but it diminishes the intelligence/competence of three oldwalkers and the threat of the eldrazi just to build up the neowalker avenger team they're currently pushing. That's my issue with the whole thing anyway.
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>>44606099
I AM ANGRY ENOUGH FOR BOTH OF US SO IT BALANCES OUT
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>>44606145
What a slack ass
>>44606113
>Implying Drana won't become a sexy Eldrazi Titan fighting on the side of the gatewatch.
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>>44606162

>The Eldrazi were built up as apocalypse monsters on a scale beyond any other magic antagonists
>They're actually the starter villains and the real struggle is the Gatewatch vs Phyrexia and Bolas
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>>44606162
Think of it this way:
Ugin knew they probably could kill the eldrazi with them.
Nahiri was still wet behind the ears at all this and as a white walker, was perfectly happy to sacrifice herself and her plane to stop the eldrazi.
Sorin probably wondered if they could super doom blade them with the hedrons until Ugin told him all about how phyrexia on dominaria would love to find a certain plane that was strong in black mana.
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>>44606164
>sexy eldrazi titan
not sure if want
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>>44606163
Not to sure
I'm in the negative mads about this now
I'm happy with it?
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>>44605870
>>44605876
>>44605934
>>44605981
>>44606028
>>44606103


If Ulamog and Kozilek are truly utterly destroyed then Magic is fuckin' dropped for me.

I don't mind four twenty-somethings managing to unite an entire plane to bite back at the Titans. I really don't.

I don't mind Kozilek and Ulamog being defeated and being weakened.

I LIKE Zendikar winning (if one can 'win' against the Eldrazi in the first place).

But don't jump the shark like this, please.
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>>44606196
Ula-chan, the Ceaseless Moe
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>>44606196
I /d/o want
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>>44606217
Ula-chan, the Ceased To Be
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>>44606214
Well, we won't know so soon I think. If Ugin is to be trusted they shouldn't be dead.
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>>44606214
the answer is in the text. If the Eldrazi are really cells of the titan like Ugin described, they should have done a full 'kill the mothership, kill everything down the line' like every other jack off fiction does when they eliminate the big threat. the text itself mentions the Eldrazi are still running around. they're acting like the link in the chain higher up got destroyed, not the very chain itself. Ulamog and Kozilek are still around, but they can't contact their spawn without their avatars and as such will probably have to move on to other planes or wait for their spawn to coalesce into a new avatar.
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>>44606214
Betcha the three titans are linked. The death of Kozilek and Ulamog sent their powers to Emrakul, who is now a triple titan.
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>>44606197
I AM ANGRY ENOUGH ABOUT THIS THAT MY ANGER ALONE IS ENOUGH TO MAKE 'WE ARE ALL ANGRY ABOUT THIS' A TRUE STATEMENT
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>>44606214

See, originally I'd been assuming it was a "this might just be the creature's hands, but a wounded monstrosity is still better than a completely unfettered one" and blowing up the manifestations to injure the massive existence behind them in hopes it will check the Eldrazi's advance for a long time and save Zendikar.

But now we're apparently supposed to believe Jace's half-baked plan worked and completely killed two titans, which makes it seem like clobbering Emrakul is less a matter of fighting incomprehensible power to a standstill and more a matter of figuring out what bullshit exploit the plane she's on has and using that to kill her.
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>>44606241
Eldrazi becoming bigger monsters like Sinspawn?
>mfw no rule 63 of Kozilek
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>>44606277
It'd be a trap
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>>44606006
It involves time travel, common sense can go take a dump.
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>>44606240
>>44606241
>>44606263


And an important thing here is that I don't think any of us are mad the Gatewatch won. We just don't want previous canon rules to be broken for them to do so.

How are we supposed to take the Eldrazi or Sorin/Nahiri/Ugin seriously if this is all it takes to kill TWO Eldrazi?
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>>44606277
>Eldrazi begin combining in an attempt to make a new avatar to lead them
>yfw Ulalek and Kozimog pop up, and start trying to eat Zendikar and each other, while big daddies Kozilek and Ulamog wander off to eat other planes
>YFW eldrazi basically become orks, where killing them merely stops them for now and they will propagate throughout the mutliverse to form interplanar waaaghs of horrible uncaring death
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>>44606217

Ula-chan is clearly the klutzy ditzy one with a huge appetite, but what about the other two titans?
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>>44606366
Because Ugin didn't want the titans to be killed so he never mentioned it as being possible.
The other two thought the Eldrazi were armies of creatures before they met Ugin so they wouldn't have thought of dragging their forms down to that level.
>>
>>44606391
Emrakul is still the Aeons Tsundere
"B-baka! It's not like I'm eating your plane because I like you or anything!"
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>>44605955
Indeed, poor guy really needs a hug.

Also, it seems Vol went to Innstrad and Theros, which left me wondering why he left them so suddenly. Then I realized that both Innstrad and Theros have dirty great flying things (Innstrad had its Demons before Avacyn was restored and Theros has both its Demons and dirty great flying monsters.) which AREN'T dragons, but Vol prolly never stuck around to find ut the differences.
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>>44606197

I don't think that Emrakul's actually going to be in Innistrad, since triple-eldrazi feels like overkill and as it turns out Emrakul's presence doesn't disturb stone or metal, only living things, so it has nothing to do with what happens to the symbol of the collar...

...Still, if Emrakul was there, I'd think it would be kinda cool if the brood lineage that grew from Innistrad resembled alien angels to really fuck with the people of Innistrad's heads. Although I don't think that's how Emrakul rolls.
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>>44606376
Destroying both bodies at once is what triggered this
there must always be three Eldrazi titans so the spawn will scrabble on top of eachother before Drana takes over all of them and fucks off
Meanwhile on Innistrad, a shadow starts to form.
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>>44606424

>"Hmmph, I didn't like being so close to you anyway Zendi-chan! I-I...have somewhere I need to be!"
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>>44606006
Didn't Sarkhan travel to other planes before Jund?
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>>44606427

Also, there are still dragons in both, they're just rare so he probably got suckered into THINKING there weren't any dragons there until BOOM.
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>>44606463
I can also safely assume the reason he left Ravnica in hurry is because his Run there meant he wound in Niv-Mizzets personal chamber...as Ral was giving a demonstration on some piece of magitech or other.

Naturally this caused Ral to have conniptions, a bit, and Vol to leave screaming about how he couldn't go anywhere without seeing horrible, horrible dragons.
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>>44605463

He should travel to Lorwyn, no dragons there. He can even make a nice little home for himself right here.
>>
So from what I'm reading in the two pages from the Zendikar art book, the superfriends did in fact kill off Ulamog and Kozilek. But to do so they had to:

> Use a bunch of hedrons as binding rings
> Use even more hedrons to pull them fully onto Zendikar
> Jace somehow able to shield them from Kozilek's mind fuckery AND mentally convey how to position the hedrons
> Gideon 1vBillioning all of the Eldrazi horde AND the two titans themselves
> Nissa turning herself into one giant battery to channel basically all of Zenidar's mana into the hedron prison and funnel energy to Chandra
> Chandra shooting off one gigantic Kamehameha fueled by the energy of a freaking plane of existence

Is it a bit of an asspull? Yes (especially the Gideon and Jace parts) but I think I'm ok with it, if only because the reason why Ugin, Sorin, and Nahiri didn't try to do the same thing was because they couldn't tap into all of the mana on Zendikar and that Ugin was too curious to study the Eldrazi than he was to try and kill one or two of the titans.

Personally I hope that Emrakul's fucked off to some random corner of the multiverse and we don't see mention of the Eldrazi for another 6-7 years, until some random PWer shows up on Ravnica looking for Jace, asking for his help to save his plane from otherworldly beings, and we see that it's not Emrakul, but Ulamog or Kozilek (because of the whole, "that which is dead can never die, and may one day live again" thing that always seems to follow around the Cthulu mythos).

Meanwhile, Emrakul's chilling out on Dominaria, debating whether or not it wants to eat the plane or go to this weird harmonic sound it's hearing hroughout the Multiverse, of a plane made of metal...
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>>44606677
Sorry, but Lorwynmoor has dragon. And psuedodragon chagelings
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>>44606866

Think that was the joke, anon.

>Vol was proud of his cottage. It was a GOOD cottage. And in a good neighborhood.
>Admittedly not the neighborhood he'd imagined when he'd finally found paradise.
>The elves being massive, massive dickweeds was unexpected, but still...still!
>Not one fucking dragon on this wonderful plane! Not a one! He'd finally found the place he was going to live the rest of his life!
>Weeks later, when the hill he built his cottage on turned into the head of a dragon in the dead of night and ate his cottage, Vol hung in the blind eternities for a while, curled into a ball and sobbing uncontrollably.
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>>44606866
Anon, I want you to compare and contrast the card you posted and the card you replied to.
It's okay take your time buddy. You'll figure it out.
>>
>>44606911
...but here's the real question
Post-Aurora...would Vol care anymore?
Or would there be a second Sarkhan around?
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>>44606911
Well at least Mirrodin doesn't have dragons.

Something tells me he wouldnae be a fan of Zendikar either, if not for the dirty great flying things, horrible eldritch horrors and dragons! It's the fire-crazed bint trying to remove his facial hair because she thinks he doomed the multiverse.
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>>44607061
Wait
Aurora hits and Sarkhan fucking loves dragons.
Then he goes to do everything the original sarkhan did before tarkir
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Here's the thing, we were promise that the titans were Lovecraftian beigns, horrors from the cosmos (Blind Eterities) that don't really exist in our dimesion, that the titans we saw are a 3D projection caused by their imprisioment, also remember the "hand and fingers" metaphor Ugin used with Jace.

We were said that these monsters consume entire worlds or planes leaving nothing behind. They're mindless beings and it was implied that they're somekind of recycle system the Multiverse has.

When we're told 3 old walker manage to imprision them, shit that's amazing, they really pull that out. Remember, 3 oldwalkers aka nearly gods.

That's fine, that's a cool enemy to have, all odds are against our heroes, great.

When 4 neowalkers, who are just mortal mages, manage to kill not one, but two titans at the same time with an asspull like that it's just sad. Not only it seems rushed, it's cheap and bad writting or planing on the story. Didn't these horrors consume planes? Yeah sure they destroyed two continents and millions died but I was expecting something more epic, something to give more weight to the situation, something to care about and to hate these monsters, like "shit they destroyed Zendikar? Holy fuck these guys are serious!"

For what I've been talking with some people is that we're not angry that the Avengers League won, its the how. They could have made something way more interesting and epic, not this crappy writting.

Utterly dissapointed.
>>
>>44607095
Furnace Dragon, Furnace Whelp, Clockwork Dragon, Hoard Smelter Dragon, Hellkite Igniter, Steel Hellkite, Moltensteel Dragon, Skithiryx the Blight Dragon
Mirrodin has dragons.
>>
>>44607294
Don't forget - they did this so they could return to Zendikar again.
But most of what made Zendikar unique and interesting the first time around was caused by the trapped Eldrazi.
And most of the landscape? That's gone now. It's not even The Land Plane, it's The Barren Plane (though apparently that'll be soon replaced with The Covered In Green Stuff Plane because beating the bad guys means instant free pass to a good end, can't have consequences right?)
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>>44607298
I was being sarcastic.
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>>44607294
>They're mindless beings and it was implied that they're some kind of recycle system the Multiverse has.

This assumption is made by Ugin after he encountered the Eldrazi in the Blind Eternities and followed them around for like 5 minutes. That's why he was going to study them more after they were sealed on Zendikar, to figure out if they are, in fact, a natural occurrance of the Blind Eternities to keep the Multiverse from poofing out of existence, or if they are something else (or worse, things looking to destroy the Multiverse and to be destroyed).

Jace and co. figure that it's just better to kill them and worry about it later. Which for neowalkers is an OK mindset to have, because they ARE just mortal mages who can planeswalk and NOT oldwalkers that're basically gods.

Plus I feel that how they killed Ulamog and Kozilek is a very specific situation that can't be easily replicated on any other plane of existence that we know of (in that they used the tools of their imprisonment the first time, combined with all the raw mana of Zendikar to fuel a gigantic fire blast to burn them to dust).
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>>44607095
Mirrodin has dragons too bud
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>>44607411
It was joke about how Vol would be more likely to stick his head into Mirrodin, see all the Phyrexians and "Nope!" the fuck outta there.
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>>44607449
Not sarcastic though, I'm pretty sure that every plane has dragons. I wonder if they can come up with a plane that will use something else as the iconic red creature
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>>44607489
Dragons are, unfortunately THAT popular that every set is going to have some amount of DREGEN.
Which is why they thought people would eat up DRAGONS OF TARKIR because HEY DRAGONS
>>
>>44607489
Poor Vol can't catch a break, and now he has Nicol Bolas chasing him, he's likely even more utterly-butterly-buggered
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>>44607401
>This assumption is made by Ugin

Which is later backed by people like Drana, Ob Nixilis and other mind mages like the one in exert influence, the drones, processors and other not titan eldrazi just follow orders from the big kahunas and care about nothing else, until they died anyway, which gives them the concept of fear for some reason.
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>>44607532
Or how there'll be DRAGONS in the DRAGON'S MAZE because hey, it has DRAGONS in the name, there has to be DRAGONS in the set, right?

... Right?

Also, I feel most planes have dragons, but there aren't many on Zendikar or Innistrad, but I don't think I'd want to live on either of those planes.
>>
>>44607576

Now, see, that does make sense if the scions and drones are tiny pieces of the same entities the titans are "hands" of.

Because the hands just got burned off, and the "body" parts that people can see are now registering "HOLY FUCK MY HAND JUST GOT CUT OFF" and freaking out accordingly.

If the entity itself is dead, however, the things that were ALSO a part of it should have died as well.
>>
>>44607576
But they seem to be converting/recycling everything into the Wastes basic land/mana, which is probably "pure" for them, and maybe most planes can't handle such a harsh conversion, which is why they destroy every plane they visit?

Maybe they're trying to find a plane to terraform and live on for themselves, and they keep fucking it up?
>>
>>44607651
The scions and spawns are vestigial. They can operate for a while without the rest of the eldrazi. See Vestige of Emrakul.
>>
>>44607651
>If the entity itself is dead, however, the things that were ALSO a part of it should have died as well.
physics doesn't think that them all being one entity means they should occupy a contiguous volume of space, I don't see why biology should think that killing the titans means all the spawn instantly die.

alternately, they destroyed the extraplanar aspects of the eldrazi, so now the spawn are all that are left. imagine you stick your hand in a pond and then suddenly you realize everything from the wrist up just disappeared and now you only exist as an underwater hand.
>>
>>44607401
>This assumption is made by Ugin after he encountered the Eldrazi in the Blind Eternities and followed them around for like 5 minutes.

That wasn't my point but sure. Also I don't think it was 5 minutes.
>>
>>44607692
>>44607760

Dammit, I was really hoping that meant the planar wave motion flamethrower only hurt the Eldrazi rather than killed them forever.

...I'm still a little fuzzy on how channeling ALL of Zendikar's mana to kill the things killing it somehow brought it back to life, too, anyone want to take that one?
>>
>>44607819
Mana regeneates. Chandra may have used quite a bit of Zendikar's remaining mana, but it popped the eldrazi like ballons and all the mana they've eaten since being unsealed just kind of dumped on the plane.
No need to worry about mana from other planes either, they lost all that during their imprisonment. Though that's probably going to keep causing the roil for a while because Zendikar.
>>
>>44607819
Today's UR revealed that for all the processing and Wastes-making the Eldrazi are doing, because it's not affecting the core of Zendikar itself (which I think is what the Khalni Heart is/represents) it's all surface changes and the plane can heal the damage, it's just going to take time. Nature mages like Nissa can speed the healing process, but it'll slowly heal itself naturally.

Which means Zendikar might be a "primal" plane, in that it is one that can't be destroyed/altered so long as it's core isn't damaged/destroyed. So in theory it can be a plane that'll last for a VERY long time in the Multiverse.
>>
>>44607896
aka 'bullshit excuse for why we can return there in seven years and it's not a chalky/bismuth wasteland'
>>
>>44608027

Admittedly, without the Eldrazi, what exactly is Zendikar's "thing?"

The Roil was because they were imprisoned there, the hedrons just look nice now, it's presumably going to take a long-ass time for the centuries-old forests reduced to nothingness to grow back nearly as thick...
>>
>>44608027
It's been heavily implied the entire time that the damage so far was mostly on the surface besides what Kozilek Briorn was doing.

I think the next Zendikar will show how it's healing, big massive expanded of new shit with big patches of dead shit. The plot will revolve around Omnath being free be abuse they never fucking did anything with it.
>>
>>44608052
There's a lot they can do. Besides what I said here >>44608086, they can also explore the Eternal Pilgrims, the Vampires, Zada, or the the stone super batteries everywhere
That aren't needed for the Eldrazi.
>>
>>44608236
Meh...
>>
>>44607651
When you die, the cells and organs of your body don't instantly die. Some function for quite a long time, even.
>>
>>44607223
>>44607061
Remember what block followed immediately after Shadowmoor and the Great Aurora?

Alara, where we first saw Vol in all his dragon-loving glory

This is now canon
>>
>>44608236
It's definitely gonna be a shadow of its former self. Adventure is nearly dead on that plane with everything being bismuth or chalky, a lot of the culture is dead too.
>>
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>>44604522
>Eldrazi RUNNING IN FEAR

>>44604510
>Ulamog & Kozilek, two Eldrazi Titans, are killed by normal fire magic
>>
>>44606190
I mean, Phyrexia was always the greatest threat to the multiverse
>>
>>44608742
>Channeling an entire plane's worth of mana into a fireball is normal fire magic

Chandra's flame at that point was basically a super spirit bomb.
>>
>>44608812
Which is 100% retarded. I never gave a shit about phyrexian, since their very nature stops them from ever being real danger to the multiverse: they are plane bound and there's no way that changes since merely getting a spark removes all traces of corruption, and it's no longer possible to move between worlds without a spark.

The eldrazi were the perfect villains for Magic solely on the bases that they're not planebound.
>>
>>44608873
>since their very nature stops them from ever being real danger to the multiverse
you mean the programming that says they need to spread and compleat every single being?
>>
>>44608873

The Phyrexians' drive is to spread Phyresis everywhere. They're compelled to do so until no life exists that isn't infected.

They're also researching technology to pierce planar boundaries, which means one day some plane's sky will open up and unrelenting horror rains down.
>>
>>44608742
See >>44606799 and >>44605934
That wasn't normal fire magic. It was Fire magic powered by ZENDIKAR ITSELF and converted to ANTI-ELDRAZI MAGIC by hedron rifling.
>>
>>44608992
Yea and it's still a heap of bullshit because 4 neowalkers using ~THE POWER OF TEAMWORK~ can do what 3 oldwalkers couldn't.

I know wotc's never really cared about the story, that's been obvious in several points over the years, but the shit they've been putting out since Origins is just vile.
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>>44609041
It's already been said repeatedly why the oldwalkers didn't do it, mostly Ugin not letting them even try, but you're just going to stay salty and bitch about it, so I'm pretty much done trying to explain it to you.
>>
>>44609102
Since when is /tg/ filled with so many cocksuckers.
>>
>>44609102
That honestly doesn't make sense, though. Both Sorin and Nahiri tried fighting the Eldrazi before Ugin even showed up, and ultimately had to give up because they couldn't win.
Yes, yes, they weren't bound to a physical form then or some other bullshit excuse; it doesn't matter, this ending just make it sound like Sorin, Nahiri and Ugin were all incompetent cocks.
>>
>>44609102
How can you defend such an asspull as this?

The artbook HAS to be lying, simply because no sane businessman would allow them to kill off two thirds of a Big Bad so easily.


We're all fine with the Gatewatch winning, and we're fine with Ulamog and Kozilek being retired for a while after getting burned this badly. But destroying them both (if it's even possible, which I doubt) so quickly after they get revealed really removes any perceivable threat they could have.
>>
>>44609120
You're being salty and whining, I hated it when the dragons fucked Tarkir but I gave reasons instead of whining about how "bullshit" it was.

>>44609183
The main difference is Ugin's hedrons. Without them Sorin and Nahiri couldn't win, and when they finally had them, Ugin was choosing how they used it. Not so with the Neowalkers who used them as they saw fit.

>>44609210
The victory relied on the hedrons. How are they going to do that with Emrakul who's long gone?
>>
>>44609243
>I hated it when the dragons fucked Tarkir but I gave reasons instead of whining about how "bullshit" it was.
Except that was literally the entire point of that block? And it happening actually makes sense instead of shitting on what used to be one of the best flavor planes in history?

I don't see how you can be so stupid as to compare the two. For the sake of everyone involved I hope you're trolling, though I assume a lot of people are just going to eat this shit up anyway and wotc won't give a single fuck.
>>
>>44609290
>Except that was literally the entire point of that block
And the entire port of BFZ was to save Zendikar, which they did.

>shitting on what used to be one of the best flavor planes in history
They did that when the Eldrazi got out and it became "Survive the cthulu's" instead of rich adventure land. Now it's gone full untamed wilds and is back to being adventure land.

>Petty insults
This is what I mean by whining. You've given no justification except petty whining and spouting whatever you feel makes sense like a mono-red temper tantrum.
>>
>>44608992
Is still bullshit. It's like a kid wrote it.

>there's people in this thread who defend the ending
>>
>>44609210
I mean, this is Ulamog- The Ceaseless Hunger, The Infinite Gyre, The Consumer of All. Ulamog is creation and destruction wrapped together in unholy harmony. Everything he and his spawn touch turn into white chalky dust. The structural damage to the world aside, a single cut unless amputated immediately leads to the creature turning to dust from the inside out, coughing up their very former essence with every breath.

And Kozilek, The Butcher of Truth, The Great Distortion, the confusion of panic, the trap of enigmas, and the harrower of thought. We got a glimpse of just how one of his brood can affect living flesh in today's UR: Illusions of skin splitting, tendons unfurling from bones, and limbs bent at unholy angles. I also maintain that Kozilek is the 'smartest' of the Eldrazi in that he can actually comprehend people as more than a food source, and plays cruel tricks on them while he eats their essence. Kozilek was the child burning ants with a magnifying glass- though not the most destructive or most far reaching, certainly the most malicious.
>>
They're obviously just killing Ula and Kozi off because then they can just have Emrakul be THE Eldrazi and have her off doing shit without having to explain what the other Titans are up to/have them show up with her.
>>
>>44609243

>Emrakul

How bad can she be when four idiots manage to kill the other two with no major casualties?

Admit the method and ultimate result of Zendikar winning is bullshit- Not the victory itself, but how they won and what it means.
>>
>>44609439
/thread. Rightest answer right here.
>>
>>44609415
Nah they just two big ass fatties that died to a fireball.
>>
>>44609243
>The victory relied on the hedrons
This is what I don't get though. If the dude who came up with the hedrons and the chick who can actually make and manipulate them couldn't figure it out how come one edgy faggot and three literal retards could figure it out?
If Sorin, Ugin, and Nahiri actually meet the Gatewatch and it turns out that the Gatewatch actually did permakill the titans, what kind of bullshit is Wizards gonna have to come up with? Or are the oldwalkers just going to go "Ohhhh KILLING the Eldrazi, why didn't we think of that?"
>>
>>44609485

Well, specifically because Ugin DID think of it and thought it was a bad idea, iirc.
>>
Reminder for all the peeps in this thread -- Nahiri be on Innistrad
>>
>>44609368
Except all the Cool Things to adventure too are gone.
The weird shit that shifted the landscape all the time is gone.
Zendikar is now just a really big forest world.
But they're gonna bullshit reasons to keep that other shit around for Return to Return to Zendikar.
>>
>>44609504
So that's the explanation?
"jk Ugin was wrong lol"
Weak. Fucking weak.
>>
>>44609448

They're gonna have to hype up Emrakul by having her actually consume some planes. Maybe Jace finally remembers that he was from Vryn and manages to travel there just as Emrakul finishes it off or something.
>>
>>44609448
We've been seeing all block that the hedrons are super effective against eldrazi.
We've been seeing for longer that the hedrons were great at containing and weakening the eldrazi once they were actually turned on.
And Nissa has been able to throw around Zendikar's entire mana pool forever now.
The only reason the eldrazi were burned to death was because there was no black walker present to Flesh to Dust them for extra irony.

>This is what I don't get though. If the dude who came up with the hedrons and the chick who can actually make and manipulate them
Ugin was the one who came up with them. He fully knew how the hedrons worked at that they'd probably weaken the eldrazi enough to kill them. But he didn't want them dead, just studied to see what their purpose is. The Bolas shanked him and he couldn't study them like he wanted.
Nahiri, the one who made them, was basically a blacksmith that was given instructions to "build this exactly and put it here." She legitimately didn't know what she was playing with and didn't have time to play around because there was always one more to make.
>>
>>44609504

So now either Ugin appears foolish and killing the Eldrazi has no noticeable consequences or the threat of the Eldrazi is completely overshadowed by whatever dickery happens when they die.
>>
>>44609527
>Next time we see Koth he's on a random plane.
>"Some monster from the sky came. It destroyed everything, mirrans, phyrexia. I would have cheered when it smashed Norn's annex had it not taken the plane with it.

>>44609548
>The threat of the Eldrazi is completely overshadowed by whatever dickery happens when they die.
Sounds about right and I'll believe it. Imagine if your solution to get everybody to fly is to remove gravity. What happens next? At least you understood and could observe gravity.
>>
>>44609548
This. Ugin comes across as a giant pussy now.
>N-no guys don't kill them, who knows what might happen!
Inb4 twist where Ugin was controlling them the whole time.
>>
>>44609505
She's been there for awhile
>>
>>44609621
Ugin was already talking about Avacyn when he first met Nahiri and Sorin. She's not Avacyn for the simple fact that they co-existed for a long while.
>>
>>44609548
>So now either Ugin appears foolish
or just overly cautious. even when he was telling jace about the hedrons he put a whole lot of emphasis on "don't kill them" that jace half ignored. and then kozilek appeared and apparently he decided fuck that shit altogether.
>>
>>44609621

Sorin was working through some complicated emotions when he decided to become a single dad, OK?
>>
>>44606424
What would Kozi-chan be?
>>
>>44609742
Kozilek is a trap.
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>>44609659
That's a shame.

Sorin inviting Nahiri over then Frankensteining her into an Angelic protector is so Innistrad it hurts
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>>44609541
She had time after to play around and understand them, and apparently DID - since she figured out how to completely fuck over Ob by jamming a hedron in his skull.
But by that point the Eldrazi were sealed and gone, and releasing them herself would not only fuck over her home plane, but piss off the two people who had helped trap them in the first place.
>>
>>44609759

>bespectacled, doesn't get much sleep
>bad bed hair, spiked all the way up
>normally hides in his dark room all day playing through VNs
>his two sisters made him dress up like a girl one day and were shocked at how cute he looked
>now he does it all the time because he likes the attention
>>
>>44609621
>>44609659
>>44609827
I would say that not only does this not make sense and is dumb but is contradicted by what has already been said, but...
So was the ending to this block. Which contradicts the same stuff. Wizards may well do something that fucking stupid at this point and I wouldn't even bat an eye now.
>>
>>44609827
There's still the vampire theory though. Unless becoming a planeswalker suddenly gives you Elf immortality, Nahiri should have died centuries ago being mortal. Sorin turning her so He and Ugin could use her again in the future seems plausible and would also make sense as to why Ugin was like "Sorin, nigga, yo what the fuck did you do?"
>>
>>44609899
As if Wizards ever lets continuity get in the way of their stories.
>>
>>44609759
>>44609879
Nah
Kozilek is one of those characters that you can never tell if it's male OR female and it's never actually stated one way or the other.
Though yes, glasses nerd definitely, with a very quiet voice.
>>
>>44609947
Oldwalkers were immortal prior to the Mending. It's been like 100 or so years since the Mending, and the only Oldwalkers left that are around are Liliana, Bolas, Uhin, and Sorin. We know Nahiri is somewhere, we don't know where though.

That's why people thought she was stuck in a hedron on Zendikar, in a sort of suspended animation stonework, cause she knew she would die of old age otherwise.

But now we don't know here she's at, and now we gotta play "Where in the Multiverse is Carmen Sandiego?"
>>
>>44610253
That said, Kor may well have long natural lifespans (what with basically being White Elves anyways)
>>
Look at this chef. Look at how unhappy she is. She likes cooking, but doesn't like the job. She dislikes her manager, her coworkers. "But you need the money." Society says, "Shut up and do your job" they say. Enough.
One day she decides to say screw it, and doesn't show up to work that day. Why? She's at Rix Maadi, telling them about her dream job. The empathic mages at Rakdos understand her pure feelings and passion, and her undying ambition. With their help, she takes out a loan from the bank to open her own restaurant, cooking her own menu of what she wants to cook for her own profit rather than the profit of some corporate masters. The Rakdos help too, advertising her venture and making sure as many customers as possible hear about the hot new place to grab a bite.
This woman, made of self determination, passion, and self fulfillment is RB. She is a happy business owner who happily does her dream job, creates pleasure for her customers, and creates jobs for others.

Why haven't you mastered your passions and desires and turned them to profit and happiness? Embrace BR today. Join Rakdos.
>>
Calling it now, its gonna turn out that there are more eldrazi, but they were kept at bay because this cluster of planes was the territory of the big three and that even while they were locked away their presense was enough to ward off other eldrazi
>>
How many of MaRo's "maybes" have panned out to be confirmed?
>>
>>44608639
DEEPEST LORE
>>
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>this ending was so amazing, it makes perfect sense! thanks wotc!!
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>>44604522
>Jace has the option to show up in pretty much any block because he's traveling around
>the others are bound to Zendikar
>no mention of Ob

Sometimes I fucking hate WotC and the hardon they have for Jace.
>>
>>44612799
But Jace never mattered till rtr and it makes sense that he goes because he told Ugin the he has friends in Innistrad.
On top of that he's the only one who wouldn't stand out there Chandra can't resist burning shit, Gideon will get sidetracked by fighting pointless battles and elves don't exist on Innistrad.
>>
>the MTG equivalent to the avengers just swoop in and kill two titans
Wut
WTF WotC

Also, Kamigawa best lore. They won't reach that level again
>>
>>44612892
That's why nissa needs to bond with innistrad to bring elves back.
>>
>>44606799
The whole reason the plan didnt work was ugin. Oldwalkers could do what it took the kiora getting the scepter of thassa just by being on that plane. Sorin is black and probably didnt care as long as they didnt get to innistrad and naihiri probably was fine just having them gone. Never trust a dragon
>>
>>44613284
The closest thing to a trustable dragon is Atarka, and that's just cause she's a fat piece of shit who only wants to eat.
>>
>>44613284
Basically, this. We don't even know we can trust Ugin. Sorin and Nahiri went along him him because he's an Elder Dragon Ghost Planeswalker. Ugin clearly could have killed the Eldrazi if he wanted because THE HEDRON PATTERNS ARE ENERGY LINES OF THE BLIND ETERNITIES. That bit was spoiled from the art book. Ugin is powerful enough to have studied the flow of the blind eternities AND MAP THEM. Of course he wanted to bind the Titans. They were cool and interesting, he just needed a few chumps to help out. Thankfully, Sorin was already chasing them, so he made friends with Ugin, and then he found someone to make his trap.

Then he died. Who brought him back?
>local man ruins everything
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>>44612892
>elves don't exist on Innistrad.
They did once though. They went extinct. Nissa bonding with Innistrad and bringing green back to the plane will surely bring the elves back.
This being Innistrad, a bunch of naturally woodsy people are going to be going through a painful one-way transformation and turn into bouncy joraga elves that could suplex werewolves. Everyone wins!
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>>44613669
Elves once on Innistrad = sauce where?
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>>44612892
Jace vs pic next block?
We know hes gunna have to finish his beef with garruk but I want a vampire to really fuck jace up.
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>>44613793
Jeremy Jarvis said it at PAX 2011. They wrote in the style guide for Innistrad, the one they send artists, that elves of Innistrad are extinct.
Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj46sLvXuGs&feature=youtu.be&t=1757
Should drop you at 29:17 if the linking doesn't work.
>>
>>44613940
Huh, cool. Now I really want Nissa to go and hang with Jace there.
>>
>>44613912
Please, we all know that Jace is going to face the greatest threat Innistrad has ever faced.

>>44613981
Quite a find admittedly. It was kind of nuts. I could use more Nissa. I could ALSO use more Sorin hyperventilating because Jace brought NISSA of all people to his home plane.
>>
>>44614036
Hey Sorin. That's a pretty moon!
>>
Boring week, boring /tg/ thread. It was more interesting when there was a village idiot (of sorts) to make things fun.
>>
>>44614036
>sorin thinks jace brought the universe's biggest retard to his home plane
>gets pissed that ugin is telling everyone where he lives
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>>44614050
>>44614180
>"This plane feels so dead. I have to fix it."
>"Elf, you better not touch anything here."
>Nissa is massaging the dirt.
>"Don't worry Innistrad. I will save you."
>Nissa plants a few seeds and blasts them with green mana.
>Sorin figures that she can plant trees if it keeps her out of trouble.
>Hours later Sorin finally finds Nissa again in Kessig drawing as much mana as she can.
>He demands to know what she's doing.
>"I am bonding with the plane to better understand it's pain. Why is there so little nature mana here?"
>"Elf I swear you better not..."
>"Plus I wish to see what Innistrad Awoken looks like. I want to compare with Ashaya."
>Nissa finishes her ritual before Sorin can stop here.
>A giant ghoul tree looking monstrosity rises from the ground.
>"Hello, I am Nissa, who are..."
>The ghoul tree lets out a skypiercing shriek of the damned and runs off towards Avacyn knows where.
>"You elvish whore..."
>"I can fix that too."
>>
>>44614486

>Hours later after saving Jace fight Tibalt he finds Nissa again in Gavony.
>"Nissa, what are you doing now?"
>"I'm not Nissa."
>Sorin pales paler, there were more joraga planeswalkers. Why?
>Suddenly he realizes he's in a sea of joragas, and not in a good way.
>"Sorin, it's good you're here."
>Oh, and here's Nissa.
>"I have found Innistrad's elves in this city."
>"Elves? What elves? There haven't been any elves since the great feast of...oh."
>Nissa's bonding with the plane has made a new curse or something.
>Green using humans became elves!
>Joragan elves!
>In Nissa's image.
>Sorin briefly considered burning the city to the ground.
>"I have gathered them here to do a ritual that will save the plane by bringing white and green mana back to the plane."
>Nissa points at the moonfolk that Sorin knew was going to be trouble.
>"She says white mana comes from the moon here, and that takes too long."
>You stupid
>"So we're going to create a helix pinnacle to the moon and bring it closer
>Stupid
>"So the mana doesn't have to travel as far."
>elf.
>After talking and kicking Nissa out of her insane idea, he convinced her to move her...tribe of elves into the forests of Kessig to live out happy elf lives and get mauled by werewolves
>With that accomplished, Sorin returns to Stensia with hopes of resting.
>But since when was Stensia so green? This moss is everywhere.
>"SORIN!"
>Oh for the love of Olivia, what now?
>" I forgot Sorin, be careful, the kudzu isn't very strong yet."
>"Kudzu?"
>"Yes, from Zendikar. I planted it earlier, remember? It was the perfect thing to plant. It can thrive even here."
>She wasn't kidding. The vampires were using everything at their disposal to try and stomp the plants advance.
>It just grew over them. The mountains of stormkirk were covered in hours.
>Innistrad was lost. He failed as it's guardian by not putting the elf on a leash.
>Meanwhile, Nissa happily taught her elves how to be elves miles away.
>>
>>44609621
They look nothing alike
>>
>>44614723
>Sorin briefly considered burning the city to the ground.
>Sorin then burned the city to the ground.
>Nissa died, the elves died, everything was better.
>Then Sorin gave Jace a swirlie because fuck you Jace.
>>
>>44614723
>Elves cuddle the Wolfir and remaining werewolves into submission
>Sorin sics the church of Avacyn on them because they are stealing all of the human men, and some of the women
>Elves and the church form an alliance based on cuddling against the vampire
>>
>The Gatewatch defeat the Eldrazi
>The titans are weakened but still alive. Though Ulamog takes an interest in Gideon and create a mini version of himself but female because Kozilek told him that was the best way to talk to humans.
>Kozilek follows suite for shits and giggles
>Gideon is slowly compiling a much unwanted Eldrazi Harem as the titans fall in love with him.
>Emrakul comes to see what the two chucklefucks are doing
>Makes her own avatar to try and seduce Gideon because ara ara
>Chandra just keeps setting Gideon on fire whenever she sees him with them before storming off.
>>
>>44615310
>Eldrazi start setting themselves on fire because hey, gideon's on fire all the time now
>none of them seem to notice that this is in any way weird or wrong. Gideon most of all, he's used to it, being invulnerable and all that.
>>
>>44615310
Existential Lovecraftian Whorrors: The Animu
>>
>>44609439
This. Back in the original ROE Emrakul was the only Eldrazi Titan people cared about. Emrakul IS the Eldrazi. This whole block has just been a way to get rid of the two superfluous Titans so they can do Emrakul things without people asking where her two derpy brothers are.
>>
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>>44615357
>Gideon goes to Theros, followed by his Eldrazi Harem
>Heliod appears before him and Gideon just turns around and walks away.
>Considering his options, Heliod appears before Gideon as a little girl and clings onto his legs. pic related
>Erebos decides to get in on the action because fuck Heliod
>Chandra comes to apologize to Gideon just in time to see the god-tans fighting over him
>Gideon gets set on fire yet again.
>>
>>44615724
Meanwhile, I always felt Emrakul was too over the top and Ulamog was just...bleh. Kozilek, though, THAT was a nice point between utility, giant finisher, and world-ending horror.
>>
>>44615768
Note that she never sets any of the things following Gideon around on fire. Any of them that are on fire are on fire by their own choice - she only sets Gideon ablaze
>>
>>44615833
>Chandra
>>.....
>Chandra, I don't mind you setting me on fire, could you just not do it when I'm in the middle of negotations
>>Negotations? b-but you were naked and in bed with Mother lutti
>She told me that's how you do negotiations on Regatha
>>-blushing heavily-
>Listen, I know why you're upset.
>>y-you do?
>Yes, you should be the one to handle negotiations, I was out of line
>>......
>Chandra, your hair's turning blue.
>>..........
>...-turns on invulnerability shortly before he's caught on fire again-
>>
Is Chandra confirmed gay?
>>
>>44616221
The flavor text for her oath card is pretty gay, don't know about her though
>>
>>44616221
She's confirmed Gideon-sexual.
>>
>>44609513
>Zendikar is now just a really big forest world.
have you not seen the land cards
>>
>>44616607
Have you not read the artbook scans?
>>
>>44616221
wtf is this shit?
>>
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>>44606277
Bit late but I figured you deserved this
>>
>>44613329
One could argue that Ojutai can be reasonable as he is now, based upon how he treated Narset and is implied to have told her to go learn about Tarkir's true history. Back when he was a little shit and took the red out of Jeskai he shouldn't have been trusted.
>>
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>>44613669
>bouncy joraga elves that could suplex werewolves
>>
>Eldrazi get fucked in the mouth
That means Innistrad is going to bite it, doesn't it?
>>
>>44605934
It's amazing that Chandra's satanic flamethrower didn't have the disastrous consequences associated with such spells, like Worldfire, Decree of Annihilation, or an Obliterate. She didn't even seem to need to use ghostfire.
>>
>>44617051
just because they can?
>>
>>44617045
If Rebels of Tarkir happens I'd say that Atarka and Ojutai would be the first to join the Dragonlords and the Khans.
>>
I didn't think I would like it, but I actually do.

The newdrazi are cooler than the old ones now, at least artistically.

I can't wait for them to mind control a planeswalker and get him to lead them across the multiverse.

Slivers vs. Eldrazi vs. Phyrexia when?

Make it an RTS.
>>
>>44617213
She doesn't even have her goggles on. She's not even trying.
>>
>>44611445

Sure, the advertising campaigns SAY that, but then you have to hang out with the edgy retards who think murder is fucking hilarious (and cannot appreciate any humor more subtle or tasteful than beating someone to death with a brick) and suicidal morons who will likely kill you in the process of blowing themselves up.

Because it turns out the guild's boss is also an edgy retard who thinks people dying is hilarious.

>>44613940

I do have to wonder about Innistrad.

It seems like the plane was custom-designed to kill all sentient lifeforms on it except the demons.

Literally everything that is not a human or an angel kills and eats humans, and demons created a process that kills an angel to turn humans into monsters that kill and eat humans.

It's like, the plane seems to be actively TRYING to turn into a foresty european version of Grixis, and the angels, aided and abetted by Sorin, are the only thing stopping it from doing so.

>>44616578

She wouldn't have hemmed and hawed about responsibility so much when they came to ask her for help if Jace had just told Gideon not to wear a shirt when they went.
>>
>>44617713
Never, because the newdrazi are dead.
FUCKING DEAD.
>>
>>44617818
Now, to be fair, that is Rakdos and his private entourage. Just like not all Boros are angel leading anti-terrorists SWAT insurgents, not a ll Rakdos are crazy happy murder hobos.
Think about it this way: The Rakdos are the entire entertainment industry on Ravnica. If everyone was Rakdos's personal groupies, then that means off duty even the most hardened Boros soldiers would frequent Rakdos murder rings for drinks and gorefests.
>>
>>44617905

If we saw even a single shred of Rakdos-related fluff that didn't paint them as UNIVERSALLY a psychotic death-cult, that'd be nice.
>>
>>44617927
It's the "Combat game" problem. We only see Rakdos's private entourage because they're the combat capable part of the guild.
It's like how we never see actual Dimir Secretaries or Simic doctors that perscribe antibiotics, or Selesnyan preachers yelling at Orzhov preachers unless the Orzhov preacher is riding a death angel and the Selesnya preacher IS a 17 story tall elemental.
>>
>>44617886
What'd I miss?
>>
>>44613940

Kinda neat. Betting humans probably genocided elves or something.

and then lycanthropy is the elves' dying curse on them
>>
>>44618092

I feel like that's unlikely. Literally everything else on the plane is trying to kill them, why would they genocide another species unless the elves were also trying to kill them?
>>
>>44618123

I never said the elves weren't trying to kill em too. Innistrad seems like a real 'kill or be killed' plane. Crazy ancient elves, using their spooky woodland shamanic necromancy and beastcalling.
>>
>>44618162

To be fair, the things that are enforcing "kill or be killed" are the demons, who taught humans how to make zombies, kill people, kill the angels who protect the people, and taught humans how to make vampires specifically as a way to turn humans against each other and try to drive a wedge between humanity and angels.

So I'd guess that it's more "Welcome to Innistrad, DEMONS ARE DICKS."
>>
>>44618089
Art book revealed that the Oathwatch managed to 'kill' Ulamog and Kozilek.

Personally, it has to be a ruse. There's no way Wizards would be stupid enough to kill off easily reusable villains that can be shelved for as long as they want, espicially right after they just got unique characterization and 'personality'.
>>
>>44618297
Emrakul is still around though. Somewhere.
>>
>>44618297
Wizards is pushing the point that planeswalkers are the only ones who matter over the course of time. Other characters put onto cards are important for specific blocks, but could be disregarded or are of minor importance afterwards.
>>
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>>44616846
Nicely done anon!
>>
Hey, thinking of getting into the game and not what's the best way to start getting cards, also any other tips
>>
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>>44618926
Going to the right thread, kid. This is a lorefag thread.

But I guess you could go to your LGS and ask when are they making MTG demstrations, they give a free deck to start and free leasons. Also download from Steam Magic Duels, its free.
>>
>>44618926
Don't bother, you don't want to start reading this. Then you have to justify reading more shitty articles because "I want to see how this ends"

Just save yourself the trouble and don't get involved.
>>
>>44618926
Hop on to magic online. Pay the 10 bucks entry fee.

Learn to jew the system.
>>
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>>44619083
>Reccomending Magic Online to a new player who doesn't know any better
You should be ashamed.
>>
>>44619083
>MTGO
>for a new player
>or even someone
>>
>>44619083
>recommending mtgo to someone
What's wrong with you? Your mama raised you better than that.
>>
>>44619174
>>44621722
>>44621853
What's wrong with MTGO?
>>
to those complaining about how easy the neo planswalkers beat the big baddies here is my explanation: They know to beat the eldrazi this time because they were beat before, the eldrazi did not change so why should the strategy. Makes sense, have is genius level intellect. He knows how the trick is with the hedrons. He compares the hedrons, puts one in hand one in graveyard, one on battlefield, one in exile. He wins. You think it's a coincidence that there are 4 zones and 4 walkers. He tells each of the walkers to place the hedrons and then BAM back to eldrazi prison for koliz and ulamog... But the big bad emmy is still floating around
>>
>people think they won
>they don't realize Nissa is still trapped
>its just Kozilek fucking with her
>makes her think she saved the day
>she opens her eyes
>her hands are bending through her spleen
>she blinks again
>oh look you totally beat the Eldrazi, Nissa!

If only.
>>
>>44624835
They aren't 'back to eldrazi prison' though.
If they had just rebound them, people wouldn't be complaining.
That would have made SENSE.
Instead, they are DEAD. Not just 'killed the shadow' dead, 'killed the entire Eldrazi' dead. Because of a big fire.
Apparently Jaya was right - you fight EVERYTHING with fire. There goes Chandra's whole 'I'm not Jaya' thing.
>>
What really bothers me is that Gideon can beat an horde of spawns and two titants while in the last UR he got almost drowned by a demonwalker. Same for Jace shielding against the power of Kozilek...
I can see the whole "Using the energy of the entire Zendikar" but in a world with magic you should know that the suspension of disbelief is hard to handle.
>>
>>44626419
That's because Ob has destroyed multiple worlds on screen.
The Eldrazi have destroyed one nameless world in someone else's backstory.
>>
>>44626263
>>44626419
Battle For Zendikar block really did a wonderful job of robbing the Eldrazi of any threatening or intimidating presence they once had.
>>
Is this set literally about a well trained group of eldrazi getting beaten by a rag tag group of planeswalkers with an sjw elf and a pyromaniac with 140ms ping
>>
Remember when Urza had to plan for four millennia, breed an army of super soldiers, get nine old school planeswalkers together, and use fucking soul-powered bombs to combat Yawgmoth?

And now a few twenty-somethings kill two Eldrazi titans with the power of friendship because of magic leylines.

Kind of makes the Eldrazi seem like fucking chumps.
>>
>>44627714
Remember how three godlike oldwalkers had to spend decades planning things out to merely seal the same eldrazi?
Remember how two of those godlike oldwalkers were fighting the eldrazi, trying to kill them, and couldn't do a damn thing to them?
Remember how Tarkir was completely fucked over to bring Ugin back to life and he turned out to be completely fucking useless?
>>
Pssst, hey Walker. Come here. I got something to tell you.

All will be one
>>
>>44627356
>implying they ever had any
fucking kiddies thinking their Cthulhu ripoffs are worth shit in a multiverse where phyrexia and slivers exist
>>
>>44629914
I'm just waiting for when everyone converges on a plane expecting an Eldrazi to come through some sort of Rift only for them to become overwhelmed with fear when they see it's Phyrexia
>>
>>44630055
What if the next set is Attempted Liberation of Mirrodin?
>>
What if 'defeating' the two eldrazi here is just destroying the 'hands' and they're really still alive off plane?
>>
>>44630864
One can only hope that's what they change it to.
>>
>>44627854
Remember that the three old walkers didn't even try to kill them.
Remember how when those two fought the world was already on it's last legs when they got there and they only tried attacking their bodies.
Remember how Kolaghan is the only dragonlord that isn't in prime position to be overthrown.
>>
>>44632129
>Remember how Kolaghan is the only dragonlord that isn't in prime position to be overthrown.
That doesn't stop the fact that the only thing left of the clans is scraps of information from a thousand years ago and that most of the humans are now well and thoroughly under their sway with only a few dissenters (who usually get murdered for their trouble)
And honestly, Kolaghan SHOULD be dead already, all things considered.
>>
>>44632323
Oh so you're saying those Temur shamans don't exist. Or the ancestors are all gone? That Sidisi doesn't remember anything of life before the dragonlords, and that Ojutai didn't let Narst live after she told him about the scroll?
>>
>>44632535
>>44632535
>Oh so you're saying those Temur shamans don't exist.
Atarka hunted and ate them, yes.

>Or the ancestors are all gone?
They are. The kin-trees were uprooted.

>That Sidisi doesn't remember anything of life before the dragonlords
How would Sidisi remember things that happened before she was alive?
>>
>>44632584
The shamans used the wide whisper to keep the knowledge alive through the generations.
There are still kin-trees left as we've seen, and they probably still remember the ways of the clan.
And you're totally right about Sidisi, I don't know where I got the idea she was ageless.
>>
>>44630864
If this is correct as I hope, then the warned foolhardiness will have appropriate consequences and the more interesting titans will rightfully continue elsewhere.

If not, I hope you're all fucking prepared for the Justice Gatewatch to solve literally every fucking problem from now until the heat death of the universe. Doesn't make sense that they could? Don't worry about it, just focus on Nissa's massive bouncing elementals.
>>
>>44632875
Chandra's soft buttcheeks are the elementals.
Nissa's full, bouncy green mana batteries are joragas.
>>
>>44623105
The software is barely functional and the price model is not great, a problem which is only compounded by the former issue.
>>
>>44607819
They are desperate to do something with Nissa so we'll forgive she was elf Hitler.
So now she's all nature and good feelings and can regenerate the plane through the leylines.
>>
>>44608873
There are phyrexians in many planes other than Mirrodin, and in Mirrodin Elesh is trying to convince Jin to stop being a faggot atheist and use the knowledge he got from analizing Tezzeret to create an interplanar vessel.
>>
>>44611850
MaRo was swearing for his life Poison counters would never return during up to August 2010.
Never trust a jew.
>>
>>44612934
Because a legendary creature will never be the protagonist again.
>>
>>44609448
All of Kiora's stories about the "gods" we're that while Ulamog and Kozilek fucked around a bit and were dangerous, Emrakul was FAR above them. Presumably she is the Big One.
>>
>>44617927
Thespian's Stage.
>>
>>44627934
>Return to Theros
>Ajani and Brimaz save Elspeth with the power of love.
>Heliod sucks dick, Brimaz is the new God of the Sun.
>Second set is happiness and sunflowers.
>But there's this white card, "Silent Prophet", a common vanilla 1/2 weating a funny hat and the flavor text doesn't even make sense. The only text in the box is the phi symbol.
>>
>>44637675
That's because he doesn't actually answer any questions based on the future - he himself says that when he's asked about the likelihood of something returning he completely ignores what's actually coming up, because he'd get his ass fired for breaking NDAs if he actually said anything about the contents of the sets he's working on.
>>
>>44638061
>Phi symbol
Nah, it's just got a funny hat made of obsidian and some weirdass carddraw ability involving exiled cards
>>
>>44639029
In other words, don't trust what he says.
>>
>>44637708
This makes me sad. I miss when a normal human (or elf or whatever) from the plane that has a serious stake in the fate of their world (since it was the only one they'd ever know) was the central focus of the stories. Toshiro, Michiko, Glissa, Ashling, Argus Kos, Teysa, etc were all infinitely more interesting than the Avergerswalkers.

And now I'm just imagining how much cooler BFZ block would be if the story had been about Drana uniting the different legendary characters of Zendikar and their followers together to drive out the Eldrazi with no planeswalkers involved.
>>
>>44638061
>Ajani and Brimaz save Elspeth with the power of love.
>implying they won't have her go back to Alara only to find out that Esper has embraced Phyrexia, and are invading Bant and the other shards
Fuck Elspeth
>>
>>44642751
>>44638061
>Ajani and Brimaz save Elspeth
>They return to Theros just in time to witness a massive Phyrexian Warship tear through the skies


Personally I'd love another planar overlay with one of the old artificial planes made by Yawg but that's never going to happen.
>>
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>>44638061
>We get a third Ravnica block
>Some random card's flavor text describes how the Simic found some weird black substance and have begun to incorporate it into their experiments
>mfw
>>
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Two individuals approach you asking for your assistance in achieving their goals, which do you support?
>Elesh Norn
>Nissa
>>
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>>44642873
>Norn
>Asking
>Not killing me and compleating me
>>
>>44642873
Elesh Norn because sexy bone queen
>>
>>44642873
Nissa, because phyrexiafags are annoying.
>>
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>>44642873
Nissa because despite all her shortcomings, she has a working vagina, and won't have me reduced to sludge or flayed alive so dinner plate looking things can be screwed onto me
>>
>>44642915
>>44642917
Nissa would somehow manage to get you compleated even if you sided with her
>>
>>44643000
>Maybe if we release Phyrexia they'll kill Emrakul
>>
>>44643000
If it's Nissa vs phyrexia confirming she's just the green mana Urza never embraced thrown through time then there's a chance I'll be killed and compleated, compared to Elesh Norn where it's guaranteed.

>>44643032
>Implying Nissa would release eyeblights like phyrexia.
I imagine Nissa just knows it's an insult and not what the context is.
>>
>>44643053
>I imagine Nissa just knows it's an insult and not what the context is.
>Nissa-Nissa calls a shadowmoor elf an eyeblight
>Their face when
>>
You guys need to understand that WotC operates on a cherry-picking basis when it comes to canon from before Time Spiral.

Assume that everything before Time Spiral isn't canon until it's directly mentioned in the current lore. There's nothing directly saying that oldwalkers were more powerful than neowalkers in the current lore, only that they were immortal. Therefore, oldwalkers and neowalkers operate on equal power levels according to the current lore until they say otherwise. They're free to ignore whatever old lore they like until that lore becomes relevant to what they're writing.
>>
>>44643148
>There's nothing directly saying that oldwalkers were more powerful than neowalkers in the current lore, only that they were immortal.
While what you're saying probably true, this fact has been repeatedly stated in universe. Alara block happened because Bolsa couldn't deal with the drop in power, and he even complained about it with old lady Liliana in her origin story.
>>
>>44643309
Well it hasn't been said in the BfZ block, therefore it's not relevant in the BfZ block.

This is the logic you have to assume that WotC works with.
>>
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Spoiling next weeks UR and surprising absolutely nobody
>>
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Deep, deep tragedy.

We all miss the gomozoa

At least Wizard cares to admit it
>>
>>44643511
>evil centuries old mastermind Ob Nixilis, with the power to outfight Gideon and the mind to outthink Jace, didn't count on Chandra "The only way I know to solve my problems is by starting fires" Nalaar showing up
>>
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>>44643736
>implying there are problems that can't be solved or beings that can't be killed with fire
>>
>>44643736
>mind to outthink Jace
but he didn't. he beat jace by demon punch to the jaw.
>>
>>44643839
>What is Phyrexia?
>>
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>>44643877
flammable.
>>
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>>44643736
Do you know how to deal with this concentration of cute and powerful? That shoots ghostfire and regular fire at you while you're drowning her ex?

>>44643876
Jace wasn't thinking about demon punching Ob Nixilis, meaning Ob thought up a tactic that Jace wasn't prepared for.

>>44643877
Made of a flammable liquid when not on their christmas plane.
>>
>>44643876
Wasn't Jace trying to do his stupid Jedi mind trick shit on Ob?
>>
>>44643917
>Flame doesn't kneel to Phyrexia
Chandra immolating New Phyrexia confirmed. Killing two Eldrazi Titans has given her a taste for blood, she's just going to spend the next few blocks rampaging the multiverse suplexing wannabe big-bads into oblivion. Nicol Bolas is next.
>>
>>44643839
Chandra starts fires. Jaya starts infernos.
>>
>>44643934
>short haired Chandra
No please, I already have a magic waifu
>>
>>44643969
He was trying, yes.

So Obnoxious slapped his shit.
>>
>>44643736
WotC seems to be really buffing up red magic in the fluff, even if they're not representing it with mechanics. See >>44643839, they're going with the 'enough fire can burn anything down' approach.
>>
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>>44643736
It's a classic thing, actually. Sometimes the best way to beat the genius mastermind is through unthinking pigheadedness. And a lot of fire.

>>44643877
A storyline that should have ended, but no, we gotta keep sucking thier dick because Magic can't actually move forward.

I was sick of Phyrexia by the time Invasion rolled around and was happy to see it end. I wanted to see what else the Magic team could think up. In hindsight "more Phyrexia" should have been obvious.

>>44643917
Although this is also a good answer.
>>
>>44644048
Jace's response to everything is to Jedi mind trick it. Ob Nixilis's mind was too powerful for that shit. Then Ob Nixilis punched Jace's face in.
>>
>>44644108
>It's a classic thing, actually. Sometimes the best way to beat the genius mastermind is through unthinking pigheadedness.

Classic anime shonen hero "I'm just running on instict, with enough determination you can do anything" garbage. Exactly what I want from my Magic stories.
>>
>>44643975
>chandra goes to new phyrexia
>meets koth, red maging around
>hey dude, you look like you're having some trouble with this murderous hellscape
>these phyrexians just won't end!
>have you tried using red magic?
>well yeah, see I got all these rocks.
>let me show you something cool. I call it "fire"
>>
>>44643032
Sounds like Nissa...
>>
>>44644206
Please don't pretend that MtG's story is doing anything but trying to be the most trite capeshit imaginable.
>>
>>44643148
I don't have to operate on that logic at all; I just never saw a problem with the Mending's changes.

Barrin was never a planeswalker, yet he explicitly duplicated the spell Urza cast to end the world. Multani and the Myojin of Night's Reach were never planeswalkers, and yet could fight on nearly equal terms with them.

Yawgmoth was never a planeswalker and yet could kill them almost on a whim.

You don't need to be a planeswalker to be powerful in Magic.
>>
>>44644206
It's not just in anime.

I remember this one Silver Surfer comic from the 70s or 80s where Galactus and the In-Betweener got into a throwdown. The In-Betweener kept going on and on about the universe and how he's an essential part in it and how he'd planned everything from the start and so on. Galactus just kept responding with "yes, but I'm Galactus!" He won, of course. Because he's Galactus.

For that matter the Lord of the Rings' entire plot revolves around the Fellowship undertaking a quest so stupid, dangerous, and counter-intuitive that Sauron would never have even conceived of them attempting it.

And pretty much all of Conan the Barbarian's victories against people are because of his mighty barbarian thews, not because he out-thought them (not that he's unintelligent, mind).
>>
>>44644215
Didn't work so well for the Red Phyrexians
>>
>>44644806
Fire was clearly effective against the Phyrexians, there just wasn't enough of it to kill them all.
>>
Why is the multiverse so fragile? If there are an infinite number of planes than why should it matter that Nicol Bolas/Yawgmoth/Eldrazi are threatening to take over/become one with/eat literally any finite number of planes?

Also, HOW do the same 5-8 assholes keep running into each other? Do the Blind Eternities have a thing for hackneyed narratives?
>>
>>44644903
Wasn't Dominaria some sort of Multiversal Lynchpin?
>>
>>44644284
Barrin was the best wizard in the greatest wizard academy ever built. Multani was the personification of an entire sentient forest. The Myojin was basically the spirit of the black mana of Kamigawa. Yawgmoth was pratically a god.

The only things that is near them is Nissa with all the mana of Zendikar at her call, which is not that impressive as Oldwalkers used entire planes worth of mana all the time.
>>
>>44644903
>"They cannot threaten every world," said Sorin. "The Multiverse is infinite."

>"You clearly don't believe that," said Ugin. "If there are an infinity of worlds, then why save any of them? Why not just move to other worlds, ahead of the Eldrazi? No. The Multiverse is boundless, but its contents are finite. To believe otherwise is to believe that nothing matters at all. And when you are as old as I am, you will understand that nihilism is an indulgence you cannot afford."
>>
>>44606156
JACE COMMANDER WALKER USES LOYALTY ABILITIES FROM COMMAND ZONE
ONE-DROP JACE MANA RAMP
JACELAND
COUNTERSPELL REPRINT - HAS JACE SUBTYPE
CAGED JACE DOUBLES ALL YOUR BLUE MANA BUT YOU CAN ONLY CAST JACE SPELLS
DOUBLING JACE MAKES ALL YOUR JACES HAVE FOUR TIMES AS MANY LOYALTY COUNTERS
JACE'S RIFT RETURNS ALL PERMANENTS YOU DON'T CONTROL TO THE TOP OF THEIR OWNER'S DECKS
LILIANA JACE MAKES EVERYONE DISCARD THEIR HAND
>>
>>44644360
Talking about Galactus, who is kinda the marvel equivalent of an Eldrazi Titan eccept he eat planet and not plane, killing him released Abraxas, the embodiment of destruction of the multiverse. So maybe wizard will do that if they kill Emrakul.
>>
>>44644903
Yawgmoth was the only real substantial threat. There are only 3 Eldrazi but Phyrexia had the ability to just exponentially spread from plane to plane.
>>
>>44644977
If I recall correctly, it was, and presumably still is, the "center" of the multiverse. I also believe that its an infinite plane in and of itself. Which raises some questions. How far away do you have to be from the center of action to not even notice Urza's war? When Urza's spark ignited and he blew up using that bowl thing, did he cause an ice age on the entire plane or just the area affected by all the dust that was kicked up. Is there still a group of people trying to figure out why Powerstones cause magic cancer? If you can't tell, its been a while since I read the Brother's War
>>
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>>44645085
we already have a commander jace. the jacening is inevitable
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>>44645308
I thought the magic cancer was due to yawgmoth corrupting the stones?
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>>44645308
if i remember right, canon is the ice age was a side effect of severing a "shard" of planes from the rest of the multiverse, including dominaria, ulgrotha and some others.
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>>44645308
The Brother's War was probably seen as an event localized to Dominaria. The invasion might have raised a few red flags though.
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>>44645389
nah, that was incidental albeit related
the brothers' war literally hatefucked the whole plane into an ice age
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>>44645342
no, magic cancer was from the thran putting powerstones on literally everything, yawg was called in to find the cause of the mystery illness, and a cure
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>>44645409
Oh, you're talking about Physisis. Probably just radiation or some shit
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>>44644215
Well shit, now I want Chandra to burn Koth's coal so she can smelt his vulshok iron.
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>>44645308
I wonder how many Oldwalkers came to Dominaria during the whole Phyrexia war and immediately did a 180 and walked away without saying a word
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>>44645441
I don't want this to happen, but would not be upset if it did.
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>>44645538
>'Hey, what's going on in this plaNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE!"
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>>44645013
>"Believing that reality isn't finite must mean you believe nothing matters and don't care about anything."

Remind me again why we're supposed to think Ugin is wise and knowledgeable?
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>>44645389
The Ice Age and the Shard of Twelve Worlds were both caused by the Sylex Blast.
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>>44647523
Because he knows Sorin is nihilist supreme. He threw Sorin's own way of thinking back at him. "Why bother fighting the eldrazi? I'm immortal, I can chill wherever and if they show up, just fuck it and go to a world they aren't at. Fuck this world, I don't even like it." would be a Sorin line of thought. In fact, it WAS Sorin's line of thought when he and Nissa fucked up at the eye. "Fuck Zendikar. Now I'll go find Ugin and seal the eldrazi. They'll probably eat Zendikar, but that's your problem."
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>>44645338
There are currently about 45 mono-blue or colorless cards that picture, reference, or quote Jace. I'm sure there are a good handful more that picture, reference, or quote something related to Jace (such as Alhammarret).

An all-Jace EDH deck isn't really that far fetched.
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>>44647735
yes, but an EDH deck where every nonbasic is a jace is.
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>kozilek will never use you as an eldrazi drone incubator
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>>44645308
Dominaria itself isn't infinite, it's just some multiple of Earth's size. They actually made a globe of the place and filled in the entire thing (and then promptly never showed it to anyone outside Wizards ever)
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