>>44595968 >Given the Spartans can be killed by the fucking Unggoy of all people if you gave a Space Marine a high powered weapon like the Unggoy have then I'm sure a Space Marine could beat a Spartan in combat.
See how retarded your shit is? The thread is about FLUFF power, not what would wreck them on the tabletop or video game. You think a spartan hasent had his shit pushed in by little alien gribblies? If that were true there wouldnt be so fucking many halo games, we would have won already.
Depending on your version of Spartan, they're either the equivilant of a space marine scout in power armor or a Kasrkin in Power Armor. SPARTAN 2s, trained from the age of 5 and augmented, are easily the equivilant of a brother scout. Lacking only some of the more esoteric space marine augments.
Mark 3s are regular elite soldiers in Mjollinor, and can be considered equivilant to a stormtrooper in power armor.
Spartan VIs aren't trained from childhood, but have more advanced augments and armor than the IIs did, making them roughly equivilant.
In all cases, one on one, a full battle brother comes out superior.
>>44597498 Spartan 2s are close to Space Marine level, but I think the marines are still bigger and more durable. Depending on the Marine chapter the Spartans might have a tactical advantage. Their armor is more "high tech" too, and includes shields. The Marine's armor is powered, thicker, and they have better weapons.
Assuming a SM Tactical squad and a unit of 10 Spartan 2s were to fight it would come down to the SM chapter's tactics and the environment.
>>44597893 Well by the time of halo 4 advances were made where spartan IVs with the latest armor could match a spartan II. There were also some experiments done trying to make unarmored spartan IVs that could match an armored spartan II but the project was scrapped due to high mortality rate and the augments causing mental instability.
>>44599530 Except that's wrong, spartan IIs are in the upper six foot range out of armor (john 117 was 6ft 10 inches out of armor for instance) and in armor they are about 7 feet tall. Astartes on the other hand are far more varied in height, with an average out of armor height of about 7 feet, though some are in the 8 foot range.
I once saw a post from an anon taking a few canon numbers and did the math. I can't remember the exact numbers, but he showed that a single bolt fired from a regular bolter packed as much kinetic energy than a few dozen Scorpion Tank shells fired simultaneously. I doubt a Spartan could take a direct hit from a single Scorpion shell and survive.
>>44600067 Well, even the culutre might lose to 40k. It all depends on if both univeres are all in. And how powerful the chaos gods really are. Like if the stuff about how khorne could actually destroy the entire universe or that everything is part of Tzeentch plan is true or if they're not as powerful as some lore makes them out to be. But outside of the chaos gods, the c'tan and full strength necrons, quite a few settings could anhilate 40k.
It it's a spartan 2 and they have an inkling of the SM's durability, My money is on the Spartan. Smaller, more agile, has recharging shielding and better field of view. I wouldn't trust UNSC mainline ballistics to get the Spartan anywhere though. they are powerful enough to punch through the Covie's space Armour, but the SM's shit is thick as horse dick and supposedly super fucking strong.
Give the SM any warning at all, cut his pride in half and give him a drum mag for the bolter, I'm pretty sure he's gonna win against any non-named spartan 2.
As for Spartan Threes, SM will win 9 times out of ten
Spartan 4s are over all a mockery to the discipline and skill of their forfathers and mothers, and i'd place it at 1000 wins for the SM to 4's 1
>>44597893 >Assuming a SM Tactical squad and a unit of 10 Spartan 2s were to fight it would come down to the SM chapter's tactics and the environment. I'd hand it to the Spartans mainly due to how several Chapters are rigid in their tactics And Spartans are pretty much masters of asymmetrical warfare
>>44600887 Spartans are physically incapable of winning the fight unless they bring a spartan laser or promethean weapons. BR's, AR's, shotgun's, LMG's, etc will be useless against power armor. Meanwhile bolters will kill Spartans with a couple shots.
>>44600290 >more agile No they aren't. Space Marines are actually faster than Spartans and possess faster reaction speeds. Astartes can keep up with Eldar, who are literal bullet dodgers, just fine in a melee if not outright slaughter them. Spartans possess zero speed advantage.
>has recharging shielding Worthless as shields get dropped by burst fire from 7.62 NATO.
>better field of view. No again. Field of view is irrelevant when both are wearing power armor, and Astartes plate has built-in auspex.
>>44601877 The ones from the book? Can't they shoot nukes out of those cannons there? I mean, that seems a bit stacked in the MI's favor, especially since they can bounce around like fucking fleas in those things.
>>44601989 Space Marines are tough and all, but the Mobile Infantry take this one. >In their suits they can withstand any conventional weaponry short of an anti-tank round. >In their suits they gain the strength to tear tanks apart like paper, but are still dexterous enough to pick up an egg without breaking it. >They are able to constantly be on the bounce thanks to their jump jets. >Have access to Micro-Nuclear Warheads and many other powerful weaponry along with their incredible strength. Steel Gorillas > SPESS MUREENZ
>>44601809 None. There's not enough. Primarchs would kill Spartans with single punches, won't be harmed at all by Spartan melee, and probably could even tank shit like spartan lasers without an issue considering Corax walked off a lascannon.
>Lets look at Spartans >mk2 the cream of the crop. given how they use fully powered armor, are larger and have more experience. Master Chief was in his late 40s by the first game. Also super fucking expensive, where a single spartan 2 cost roughly that of a corvette. Has to be of very select genetic stock. Takes about 20 years to train a spartan 2.
>Mk3s taken in around any age but usually as teenagers. Their process was slightly weaker but allowed much higher survival rates. Their armor was semi powered, just enough to allow for the bulk of their armor to not be a hindrance. Tend to be of average human heights. Cheapest of them by far, as they were made to be thrown at a problem in the hundreds. Can be damn near anybody accepted. Takes about 5 years to train a spartan 3
>Mk4 Spartans taken in at any age, often from ODST. This process is highly advanced and has practically zero failure rate. They are slightly above average in height, wear fully powered armor that's similar to a crysis suit with bits stuck to it. Each one on terms of cost, is roughly 5 to 10 mk3s. Can be any one as well. takes around 7-8 to train a spartan 4
>Equipment They tend to carry the same stuff as normal soldiers. A normal human can carry a SPARTAN laser and use it without difficulty. All the weapons in halo tend to be slightly more destructive. Shotgun is an 8 gauge, sniper rifle larger than a .50 slightly, for example.
>>44602569 >Lets look at the Marines >Selection process varies massively. Some chapters use the off spring of chapter serfs, training them from a very young age. Marines of this nature do the chapter proud as they tend to be exemplars of all their ideals. Some chapters choose local populations of their recruiting worlds, age is also various, can be anywhere from age 10 to 40. Younger the candidate the more likely they will survive the process and be untainted. Older the candidate, the more they can offer the chapter as a whole.
>It takes decades to create a space marine. >Marines are durable and created with the long view in mind. It takes usually a decade to train and condition a Neophyte. A neophyte is still no laughing matter in a fight, as they tend to easily rival chapter serfs. Chapter Serfs are on par with ODST but sometimes have augments as well so they can perform without needing too much specialized gear.
>Scouts. Scouts are fully implanted and usually are between age 25 to 50. They are on par with Storm Troopers. They have many different approaches to war depending on the chapter. Some run in screaming to weed out the weak/stupid while most others use them as supporting roles, such as snipers and recon.
>Full Fledged marines
Devastators. Young bloods armed with big guns and can mow down large masses depending on load out. Assault. Jump Packs, close range weapons and boom boom makers Tactical marines. Can do it all. Veterans. Have done it all
>equipment They use big guns that explode inside you. Armor that augments all their abilities. Since they are designed to last hundreds of years, they keep goodies and drive big fucking boxes.
>My opinion >Space Marines will beat Spartans of all types.
Their equipment is simply designed to kill things tougher than themselves, while spartans are made to use the same gear as humans. Marine will survive a fight while spartans heal just like any normal man. The Energy shield spartans use is their only real defense. Concentrated fire or one solid hit will knock that shield out.
Its quite similar to marines fighting thunder warriors. 4 marines to take out one thunder warrior. It'd take 4 spartans to bring down a marine. An Elite is as strong as a spartan 2. Brutes are far stronger than Elites. Marines are physically stronger than brutes and about as durable as a Hunter.
>>44602607 >Marines are physically stronger than brutes and about as durable as a Hunter
I agree with virtually your whole post and their armor does give them Hunter-tier durability, but virtually all vanilla Space Marine strength feats are too vague to actually be measured much higher than Spartan level.
>>44603140 well. spartans are about as strong as elites. in the cole protocol book it had a scene where the one was slammed up against a wall by an elite.
Plus, marines are retardedly strong.
>Stat wise I'd give spartans as having unnatural strength 2 and marines having unnatural strength 4. spartans get unnatural agility 1. and marines have unnatural toughness 4
Mjolnir armor is basically light power armor as they don't have issues moving and sneaking in it.
In first heretic, one marine picked up the leader of a world by the neck, and she was super fat. easily an 800 pound woman. He lifted her with one arm and the armor was straining and the marine was doing all the work.
>From a structural stand point Marines are stronger than spartans due to being wider. It forces them to have larger chest and shoulder muscles.
>>44603216 Spartans are 5-10 ton lifters on average, with certain characters (such as Sam and George) being outliers in terms of strength and being even stronger. This same figure of 5-10 tons seems to be where the majority of vanilla Space Marines fall, save for a few Captain outliers. Terminators have higher feats, but their armor also augments them more than standard power armor so it makes sense.
Strength-wise the two are pretty even. Speed the Marines seem faster (with the exception of Kelly, who is stupidly fast by Spartan standards) but I would argue that the Spartans higher reaction time would equalize the slight speed gap.
Where the two really seem to differ is their Durability. Spartan energy shields have feats that put them anywhere from 8-30 Megajoules of energy, but are weak to concentrated fire. While this might seem like a lot, Space Marines on the other hand just have regular armor that shrugs off similar levels of firepower and hardly takes a scratch. Now compare their standard equipment and the Spartan's guns aren't going to even scratch a Space Marines power armor, while a Space Marines guns are designed to puncture tanks. Once those shields are down a Spartan's Mjolnir won't stand up against a Bolter.
>>44603428 >>44603566 Actually according to an interview with Frank O'Connor (Halo's franchise development director) the whole thing you can do in the games where you lift and flip over a 70-ton tank? According to him that's accurate to the lore.
Which kind of puts Spartans on Comic Book Superhero levels of sillyness.
>>44599920 >firefight I could never understand why they excluded that. The in-universe explanation for multiplayer (a first) is that Spartans are in Virtual Reality & sparing with each other. Surely actually fighting the enemy would be a more valuable experience although most of even the Elites aren't Spartan level thus easier,. Then again I'll assume it takes time to program that shit & you can't just "capture" data.
>>44605235 Wouldn't the children be better than the average human though? The cream of the crop are taken & made into Space Marines. The fact that their parents are Space Marines means the child is more genetically compatible with all the Gene-seeds.
>>44605109 Keep in mind that the war in heaven necrons had forces that numbered in the multi trillions. I'm not saying that it would for sure beat the culture, because only an idiot would say that, just that the full strength 'crons would have a rather decent chance.
>>44599895 Also in the space wolves 5ed codex there was the mention of a relic terminator armour of a fallen wolf guard who was a real giant, even taller than Rockfist. Something something towering above his fellow marines as much as marines tower above normal people
>>44601749 As much of a halo fanboy as I am, I have to admit that, yeah, the space marines would beat spartans. Though instead of listing all those things, I can explain why with just this:
On the Moh's scale of science fiction hardness, Halo's around a 6 or 7, and 40k is around a 3 or 4. So while Halo's trying to stick to plausible-sounding things and coming up how it would theoretically work, 40k's like "We got ghosts in our armor that the marines are linked with. It gives them better reflexes"
>>44605875 That's just a system in the game isn't it? To act as a sort of invisible wall/additional hazard to either stop the player from going outside the map or to make that map a bit more difficult.
>>44606009 >yet no one seems to use the marine's sperm for anything This is a slight pet peeve I have with many super-soldier programs who use only the finest & especially ones that sterilize the soldiers. From a biological perspective, sterilizing the best soldiers prevents their genes from being passed on. Natural selection leads to the weaker guys reproducing even if the better guys are present. I know how enormous the gene pool of a planet, let alone the greater part of a galaxy is, but wouldn't preventing the best & most suited from reproducing be a bad thing? >>44606051 >it's influenced by the marine it was donated from That & the chapter it's from. Still, if a Space Marine had a kid & that kid had daddy's gene seed inside of him (oh god, this sounds like /d/ shit) then the gene seed would be less likely to reject.
>>44600067 The thing about the Warhammer 40K universe is that it's heavily dependent on magic in all respects. Other science fiction universes are simply not comparable to it because it boils the entire argument down to whether or not the physical laws (i.e. the existence of magic) of the Warhammer universe or the other one supercedes. Generally speaking, you know the hardcore W40K fags have lost the argument when they start pulling back to "enemy X would lose because they don't have Geller Fields so they'll be instantly destroyed/possessed by demons", which of course applies to every other science fiction universe in existence since none of those include the demons from W40K which require Geller Fields to protect against. The problem is, from that POV, is that it's not possible to "field" W40K forces in any condition that doesn't allow for their universe' bullshit magic to exist (since they would never be able to arrive on the battlefield without their Warp drives).
Stupidity and excuses aside, it is generally agreed upon that the Imperium would lose to the Culture, any of the factions from Supreme Commander, the United Federation of Planets ON INTELLIGENT (this is, again, a super important variable: behaving as depicted in the show, the UFP from Star Trek would lose to almost any other power, because the drama relies on them being pants-on-head retarded and budget constraints make them tactically and strategically ridiculous. "On intelligent", extrapolating based on technological capabilities how the Federation would "Really" act, they punch far above that weight level), the Flood or the Forerunners (or the ancient humans) from Halo, PAX/Swiss Guard from the Hyperion Cantos, as well as any of the "Fuck The Kardashav Scale" factions that sometimes pop up (Culture, Time Lords, Photino Birds, Crayak, etc.).
>>44606519 >Halo 2 I'm not sure how many do but I enjoyed playing as the Arbiter. It was nice playing as the Alien for once. I thought the campaign was the best despite the horrible "BUY HALO 3" clifthanger ending. >Reach I didn't feel for Nobel Team like I did for Buck's team. That & I would have preferred to experience the Fall of Reach book in a game rather than Nobel 6.
>>44599920 Retconning Forerunners to be aliens instead of ancient humans completely negates the entire motive that Truth had for starting the Human-Covenant War. Truth needed to cover up the fact that humans were the Reclaimers (as he was told by Mendicant Bias), and declared that they were to be purged for desecrating the artifacts that the Prophets needed to ascend to godhood (as he fucked up and interpreted the glyph that meant "Reclaimers" as "Reclaimation"). Guilty Spark outright states that not only was humanity the "Reclaimers", but that they were actually the Forerunners themselves, which is why humans were necessary to operate Forerunner equipment. He fucking says this OUTRIGHT.
If humans weren't the Forerunner or Reclaimers then they shouldn't have been able to use Forerunner equipment, or if we follow the logic that 343i now has with the AI being the Reclaimers, then only humans with AI implants should be able to operate Forerunner equipment, which means at no point in time could the mistake have been made that the humans were the Reclaimers and the war would have been entirely unnecessary and the events of the original trilogy would have actually been impossible (ie: Miranda and Johnson wouldn't have been able to activate the Halos from the Ark because they weren't Reclaimers - Cortana was).
They did all of this so that they could introduce the most boring enemies to ever appear in a first person shooter.
>>44606519 Yep, captured by Insurrectionists and shot in the back of the head. The same guy who survived hours by himself in a Covenant-infested city. Oh, and Mickey is a Insurrectionist traitor because reasons. Fuck 343.
>>44606686 >Retconning Forerunners to be aliens instead of ancient humans completely negates the entire motive that Truth had for starting the Human-Covenant War. Actually, here it still works. The Forerunners choose Humanity to be their successors. After all a force that fought both the Forerunners & the Flood simultaneously must be good. Here Truth's reasoning is just alike the Forerunners when they weren't chosen. They were jealous. It's like not being daddy's favourite kid. They wanted the Humans gone because the Prophets thought they were the rightful successors of the Forerunners' legacy, not humanity.
Besides, I thought Halo 3's Terminals hinted that the Forerunners weren't the same as Humanity.
>>44606167 its not uncommon for certain chapters to recruit families. One chapter had an Uncle and his Nephew...it might've been the ultramarines.
>sounds like /d/ shit not really, its just a set of implants, like getting your brother's kidney
Hell, every chapter has its own variations. For instance. Ultramarine Geneseed is stored separate than its successor chapters on mars. Because each new chapter is essentially a different breed.
>German shepard gradually goes feral >rottweiler having skull to small for brain >Tibetan mastiff being larger.
All kinds of variables happen man. Its why the Founding Legions were stronger during the great crusade. They only looked for the strongest candidate and not those of the most morally pure.
First halo had boring level designs Halo 2 was kind of an eye sore on CRT televisions when it hit the flood levels. Halo 3 is really pretty when youre fucked up on booze n weed while dual wielding plasma rifle and SMGs Halo ODST had best fire fight. Halo Reach was kinda meh. Halo 4 pissed me off yet had best story haven't played halo5
>all the hours i've wasted on xbox and PC and I regret nothing.
>>44603419 Talos in the Night Lord books was capable of moving at speeds of over 60mph in a sprint. Space Marines in combat also move so fast they can't even be fully comprehended by the human eyeball, even to the point that they appear they are teleporting shot distances in a melee because they are moving faster than a human can process sight.
>>44607550 Yeah, but they retconned that too. According to Halo 4 prehistoric humanity rivaled the Forerunners, literally. There was an even older race called the Precursors who have been observing the "younger races" (from their point of view - so it's like if the Xeelee were judging the Vorlons and Shadows) to determine which of them would succeed them as universal/galactic peacekeepers. They picked humanity, the Forerunners got super-insulted, killed the Precursors, the Precursors created the Flood as a final fuck-you to the Forerunners, humanity started fighting it and killed Forerunners in the process (their planets were infested), the Forerunners thought the humans were rubbing their victory in their faces just to be jerks and returned the humans to the stone age in revenge before being eaten by the Flood.
>>44607812 >they retconned that too I'm not sure how that's a retcon. In there, Humanity & the Forerunners were both made by the Precursors. The Precursors chose Humanity, much like how the Forerunners later did the same. When Truth & the others found that out, they reacted as violently against Humanity as the Forerunners did to the Precursors. They wanted to be the Forerunners' favorites. It's kinda like the Biblical Cain & Abel story.
Besides, the Forerunners did some tampering with Humanity afterwards. Cortana & the other shit that the Librarian mentioned were planned. Unlike the Didact, the Librarian thought favorable about humanity. She even expressed this in the terminals. "Did I tell you? I built a garden. The earth is so rich. A seed falls and a tree sprouts or a flower blooms. There’s so much...potential. We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you’ve been here, you can’t know."
I'm also aware of how the Trollcursors & their Keyminds got the took over the Forerunner A.I.s & made them blow themselves up.
>>44608073 From an Eldar Philosopher: "The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude."
Clearly warmongering isn't so bad in the 41th Millennium.
>>44609778 Depends I think the armor and helmet can house separate AI
>Spartans describe the FENRIR's embedded battle management AI as efficient, responsive, and bloodthirsty, in equal measure.
>The microframe embedded in the ENGINEER helmet supports running multiple concurrent AI shards with limited remote control of limbs and suit controls.
>Armor description: ENGINEER-class armor serves as a testbed for numerous netwar-specific subsystems that target Covenant and Forerunner battlenets, security command protocols, and hardware interlocks.
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