Bards

They're just a crappy flavor of caster with a shitty spell-list. Not a fan to be honest.

>>44594769
You can play a better bard most of the time by just tacking on levels in musical prowess in your skills list.

The only exception I've ever seen is Anima, in which you can literally cut the shit out of people with rockin' lyre playing. And one time in D&D 3.5e where I watched a munchkin fucking whistle his spells so he could keep his hands free.

>>44594769
They were my first class, and I love them. I usually go with human, but any race can be fun from a flavor perspective.

My favorite thing to do with them is branch out what their "performance" is. It doesn't just always have to be a lyre and some singing; dancing or acting can be fun, too.

>>44594769
Countersong makes any battle where both sides has Bards into fucking a fucking ROCK OFF.
So yeah, I think they're pretty rad.

In most games I've played Bards end up pretty underpowered by virtue of the whole "jack of all trades master of none" shtick. It sounds nice on paper but 9/10 times it just means you become irrelevant a few levels in. A homebrew game I'm playing in has made the Bard pretty fun by virtue of making them more of hardcore support/mid-range combat character, although that hardly counts.

They're not my jam personally, but they can be fun to have around if their player does it well.

>>44596057
>Bard that casts buff spells by doing comedy skits alone
Nigga that is some bullshit right there. I love it.

>>44596397
>Stand-up comedian bard
"What's the deal with bugbears? I mean, are these guys ugly, or what?"

Bards in 3.5 are awesome. Bard 10/Sublime Chord 10 with snowflake war dance, arcane strike, improved inspiration, and words of creation equip with dragonflame gauntlets, cloak of charisma, a harmonizing crystal longsword, a performers jerkin, and a certain amulet (the name of which escapes me) that gives you +1 to inspire courage makes you insane. All of it is easily doable and the equipment isn't that expensive.

With that build you have full spell casting progression with spells picked from the wizard/sorcerer list, so you get all of the best spells. You also have something stupid like +20 to your attack and damage (as well as your whole party) because of your feats and equipment buffing inspire courage. With your sword and by singing you can perform two separate bardic music effects at once. With arcane strike, snowflake war dance, and the dragon gauntlets (plus your inspire courage) your melee attack is something like 1d8+xd4+2xCHA+20 so you easily out fight a fighter.

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I've got this one idea for Bard in 3.5 that's basically just slapping Dirgesinger onto a Dread Necromancer and saying "Fuck it, Rock On" as I lead a legion of headbanging undead.

>>44596575
I also play a bard in 5e. I like it a lot. I don't do the insane raw damage of our barbarian, but I bring enough to the table with buff and utility spells. I'm also the only person in the party with any sort of social skills. I've been playing him as the captain of a mercenary guild. Last session we had our guild house built and started sending out a bevvy of followers and level 1 adventurers of their own missions to make us money. The rest of the party are all lieutenants in the guild, so when we all go out on our own adventures it is kind of like the away team in Star Trek lol.

>>44596658
That sounds so awesome.

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Last Bard was a Dirge Bard who had aspirations of Lich-dom.

Even had a plan to do it the Dorian Grey method so I wouldn't be a skeleton(Dorian Grey was a character in the setting).

The setting also has a powerful Lich (Lord Death) who ruled a mountain he built by basically taking a bunch of corpses and throwing them in a pile(Murder Mountain).

My long-term goal was to gain power, beat him up and dub myself Lord Rock, and convert his corpse mountain into a corpse rock hall(Metal Mountain).

Never ended up happening because of scheduling conflicts, and my DM getting fed up with Pathfinder.

>>44596725
It literally hit me like 5 minutes after I saw that Dread Necro runs off of charisma.

If I can find an evil campaign, I am running that shit.

>>44596872
I have played Lawful Evil characters in lots of non-evil campaigns. Just because you are evil doesn't mean you have to be a dickhead 24/7. Being evil just means you are WILLING to do evil things to accomplish your ends.

>>44596963
Same here. I played a sadistic cannibal once in an otherwise non-evil campaign and it worked out just fine - I just found a time and place to sadistically murder and cannibalize people. Also I bullied the gnome a lot to let out my aggression.

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>>44596239
>In most games I've played Bards end up pretty underpowered by virtue of the whole "jack of all trades master of none" shtick.
At least in 5e, can't bards actually be pretty broken on accord of them getting a few spells from all the classes?

I find them so boring that for D&D 5e I'm actually working on homebrewing a full Final Fantasy style red mage class, complete with archetypes.

Never seen a Bard that wasn't a manwhore.
Never seen a Fighter that wasn't a grizzled mercenary.
Never seen a Barbarian that wasn't retarded.

Please send help, it's making me hate everything.

Bards suck balls. Imagine you and your friends, fighting for your lives with swords, maces and magic, while the party Bard is running around playing his flute and singing "LA DEE DA I AM A HUGE FLAMING FAGGOT"

Total meme class played by "le power of rock" nerds, anyone who says to me they love bards I know to avoid

>>44597184
Dude, if you're going to be contriving you can at least be a tad bit less of a twat about it.

>>44597167
My bard is a mercenary captain.
My buddy plays a fighter who is a mage hunter.
My other friend plays a barbarian who is a noble that throws hissy fits (re: rages) when he gets dirty or hurt.

It's okay, Anon. Not everybody plays stereotypical characters. Keep looking and don't give up hope.

>>44594769
Bards bother me for fluff reasons.

Reason the first:

In DnD, magic is not so different from science. Wizards combine strange stuff in strange ways to make strange things happen. That's acceptable in it's own right, but bards somehow surpass all this by playing music. I think magic can be science or music, but it's awkward to have it be both. Where's the internal consistency?

A setting in which ALL magic was based on music would be pretty neat, but I've never seen it done.

Reason the second:

Ignoring the first reason, if magic can be done via science or music (or faith or genetics), why are bards different than wizards? Why does a bard get to use armor and weapons but also has less magic? If magic can be music based, why not have a practitioner of music-magic focus solely on just that. Why have all these fighter/rogue/mage hybrids?

>>44597722
It's magic, don't have to explain shit.

Or you are just misunderstanding it and magic isn't a science.

>>44594769
I'm playing a JoJo in 5e by making him a bard with my spellcasting focus being posing (DM allowed)

The CHA boost helped our party get some information, for sure

>>44597722
So, have you ever had fun? Or is over-analyzing everything how you have fun?

>>44596704
5e bards are the best class by far, and from a mechanical standpoint there's little reason to play anything else. I think the same thing happened to them as what happened to clerics in the transition from second to third edition: they were the classes that everyone wanted in the party but no one wanted to play, so they were given a massive power up and are now the masters of everything.

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Had a lot of fun playing a neutral evil, Drow version of Lady Gaga.

Criminal amounts of fun.

3e/Pathfinder bards are better off than those poor bastards who don't get spells at all, but as 2/3 casters they're kind of in a weird place. Since they won't be casting spells every round they need to be able to fight, but they're too fragile to melee. I guess you could make an archer, but you'll have to spend all of your feats on it.

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If your instrument isn't ridiculous in nature, and your music can't even make the healer whip ass like the fighter, you're doing it fucking wrong.

>>44594769
I think they're a staple of the genre. I do not like playing them; they are my least favorite class to play, because for the most part they can't fight and they often NEED to be social to be useful. Half-elf, but I put gnomes a close 2nd.

Bard should have been a prestige class, to be honest. I think the same of ranger and paladin. But bards are okay as is. I think they should be the first choice for the 5th slot of a party:

1-4: cleric, fighter, rogue, wizard
5 - bard
6 - ranger or druid with track
7 - artificer (if allowed), paladin if not

>>44601992
First choice in what edition? Or do you mean 'thematically', in 'ideal DnD'?
In 5e there's not much reason to have a rogue at all when you could have a bard.

>>44601992
>>44602011
I was talking 3.5, but I think it's true in 2nd edition games as well, like IWD or BG (never played actual 2e before though)

I mean in "ideal D&D" as well, but I feel like 3.5 is the closest to ideal Ive seen (core, anyway, I can't speak for splats). FC might beat it, but I haven't really got the hang of it yet (my gut says "no").

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>>44596057
>It doesn't just always have to be a lyre and some singing; dancing or acting can be fun, too.
Or playing a weird-ass instrument, like the hurdy gurdy.

I don't like the jack of all trades thing; makes me feel aimless during character creation. Thematically I think they cover too much ground too. They seem like a mash up of the themes and skills of a bunch of other classes, probably owing to the fact that's exactly what they were when they began. Dunno why anyone thought they should be made into a base class

>Play Bard
>Pick Instrument
>Silly Campaign
>Modern-ish
>...
>JUGGLING MUSICAL CHAINSAWS

I have no idea how I made that leap of logic. But it's hilarious.

>>44597787
Bard is the new cleric in 5e

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>>44594769
I think D&D bards aren't that great on their own, but are the ultimate multiclass.
Adding bard levels makes any other class awesome.
>Barbarian
A crazed warrior chanting his victory songs
>Rogue
Whistles as he sets up traps and slits enemy throats.
>Paladin
Sings battle songs and hyms as he smites demons.
>Sorcerer
Plays an enthralling lullaby on her harp, weaving spells and filling the air with arcane energies.