Oh shit, I didn't realize how fast the thread was going.
Let's talk about these tumblrs. I think they're funny and want to see more like them.
Previous thread: >>44575353
>We have a booru, add things to it! (Be sure to tag well)
>Changeling: The Dreaming 20th Anniversary Edition Kickstarter
>The Onyx Path Official Website
>Drive-Thru RPG, for all your legally-obtained book needs
>A Mega bin, for your less legally-obtained book needs
>The Chronicles of Darkness Core Book(Which isn't in the Mega link)
>He's the werewolf guy. Pretty much the sole source of werewolf sneak peeks and hints and cool tidbits
I believe Chris is uniquely talented.
He can simultaneously be both the "Werewolf Guy" and the "Ephemeral Entities Guy." However, Stew might take issue with the former.
What Decree should my Mummy be?
He was a foreign barbarian chief in the time of Irem, conquered and brought into the fold; the worship of the Nameless Gods and their Judges came naturally to him, and he became something as a zealot, leading the armies of the Su-Menent.
I'm torn between Heart (for the wandering immortal warrior-poet, basically Conan as an Arisen) or Spirit (glorious undying warlord who needs to crusade upon every awakening).
A Deceived of The Dancer and a Deceived of The Keeper sharing a Chinese cult that believes in enlightenment through clarity of action without thought. Basically Zen berserkers in service to alien gods.
Hot or not?
I have a BBEG. He is known as the First Sin I have the party believe that he is a descent demon. So far he has shown to be capable of using powers from other spalts. Using memento and awakening magic. Futhermore he has a unparalleled understanding of the flow of time.
Working on Manifestations
I never get to play anything. Hopefully this vampire game a friend is planning goes through. It doesn't sound super interesting, but playing is playing.
Hopefully I can also wrangle my players for my Forsaken game.
Dreamwalker Thyrsus who focuses on using Life and Mind to live out some of his personal dreams.
Tempter Messenger who never does anything directly when there's a way to get someone else to do the job for him.
Other, less developed-ideas for a Fairest changeling, and an Unfleshed promethean, that I'm saving for more info on/release of their 2nd Editions
You don't happen to have any advice for someone who wants to start home-brewing stuff to personalize their Forsaken games but feels like they won't do the game justice, do you?
I got no experience in game design but there's so many ideas.
Which aspect matters more to the Arisen's identity, to the point where it would remain if all other parts of them were taken away? If it's the Warrior-Poet, it's Ab, if it's the Crusader, it's Ba. From your summary, though, I'd say choose Ba.
Sounds good to me! Just make sure they're both in the same Movement if you can, just so the squabbles are to a minimum. Unless you want that, of course.
All of them?
I'd really like to remake my favorite Changeling character in 2e since I wouldn't have to Dual Kith to make him a Fairest Runnerswift, but that would require Changeling 2e to actually be available in some format.
I'm fairly certain Mage 2e will be out before February 2036, assuming WW isn't sold again.
More seriously, Dave has admitted to being very careful with his spoilers to prevent people from really using them to effectively play 2e before its release. The book will hopefully be out within weeks. I would just wait it out.
Yes, in fact Brookshaw's big three ideas are all based on media he's enjoyed.
Person of Interest inspired Demon.
Misfits inspired Deviant.
And Krull inspired his next game pitch, Glaive.
if it didn't have the potential to be so much like deviant I think I'd like a game like Agent, about being a member of a cult or conspiracy who has to do weird shit but could potentially turn against their group (though why would you do that?)
Finally, a way to get Monte Cook to come back to WoD!
Actually, a 2016 version of Monte Cook's World of Darkness would probably be in the Cypher System. I wonder how that'd work out.
I know I'm basically a broken record at this point, but Werewolf players tell me about your packs.
What do the mortal members think they're doing? Where is your Territory? What kind of interaction do you have with other packs?
>What do the mortal members think they're doing? Where is your Territory? What kind of interaction do you have with other packs?
We're open with our pack, mostly because our spirit insisted upon it. Our territory is a large area in West Virginia that isn't doing very well economically. We've only met one other pack (our territory is basically uncontested) and they're far away. We did not hit it off well though
It's spam. Also, judging by the picture, it's a copypasta related to that guy who was banned from Magic for being a convicted rapist ten years ago, and Wizards prioritizing brand management.
Open how open?
We've seen it plenty. At least once a week.
Forest of Faith, she's a magath. Sort of like a plant-woman nun. Basically a forest spirit that was finding less and less essence when the mining/logging was fucking up the trees, she retreated to a convent (now abandoned) and ended up soaking up a lot of faith essence and eventually becoming the keeper of its locus
ST offered to give us a little more power in our totem in exchange for some surprises, so we think she has another influence
Magath aren't that bad
especially with a pack
problem is they fuck up the ecosystem cause they want to get essence but don't fit in with the other spirits eating essence
with a pack, we supply the essence, she isn't chaos on the ecosystem
(our last two totems were magaths in other games, one died for us)
its the third influence that might be the problem
there's no real ecosystem to fuck up nayways, all the big spirits and loci are now gone except a couple (big spirits who now greedily protect the last loci)
60-something (how do mortals DEAL with going face-first towards a fire, even one so small they can snuff it with a breath?) high-humanity Ventrue who works as a failed journalist for some shitty newspaper's culture section. I used to be a screenwriter, but getting Embraced messed up something making everything I henceforth produced look like Naruto fanfiction.
Basically, I wanted to make a Kindred whose Mask was incredibly mundane and whose "mortal" side was fairly unsatisfying. Not sure if the concept's sound in any way or the worst snowflake ever.
My touchstones are the last play I ever sold shortly after graduating college, my estranged wife who I wish I'd had the heart to embrace or ghoul - sometimes at least - and the older of our two daughters who still doesn't know.
None of my friends play any kind of WoD right now.
I really want to make some kinda-benevolent cults that revere Tier 5 or 6 spirits and act as frenemies to the party. Any ideas for those?
I'd say doing it section-by-section is better than doing it in read order.
Very kind of you to say that.
>Trying to make a character in DtD. Do I need to grapple an enemy in order to use Cavernous Maw?
RAW, no, but in the light of the usual rules for similar actions it makes sense most STs would require you to on a resisting target.
>You can use Totemic Empowerment to temporarily become Claimed by your pack's totem. At which point you can use its Numen (Presence+Wits I think).
That must look scary as fuck to observe.
>I'd say doing it section-by-section is better than doing it in read order.
I mean that I need to be okay skipping from Passion Boneyard to doing Industrial Marionette powers, as opposed to Passion Boneyard to Phantasmal Boneyard to Primeval Boneyard.
That's been floating around for a long time. What I'm confused about is where did he get all this extra space for Hurt Locker for when supposedly the full length of the book was contracted out over a year ago. Did he have a bunch of people flake out? Did we lose sections and they just haven't said anything yet?
>I mean that I need to be okay skipping from Passion Boneyard to doing Industrial Marionette powers, as opposed to Passion Boneyard to Phantasmal Boneyard to Primeval Boneyard.
Oh, right. Yes, that makes sense.
Chances are they hacked chase and crafting rules off of Hurt Locker and into CoDa at the last minute, then subsequently elected to splice these in. Would explain some things.
That's kind of cool, actually, though now I'm tempted to
try and badly glue Second Sight powers onto this so Psychic Vamps can power such abilities with Ephemera.
>That's kind of cool, actually, though now I'm tempted to try and badly glue Second Sight powers onto this so Psychic Vamps can power such abilities with Ephemera.
That's a seriously good idea. A Psychic Vampire of a mystic bent who works out other things to do with the Ephemera. It's obviously supported already, what with the shapeshifting merit.
Also... Would the Coil of Zirnitra allow an Ordo vampire to take Psychic Vampire?
Personally, as an ST, I'd say no because fuck template stacking. But RAW, I don't see anything to prevent it and with the way they do Wolfbloods now and allow them to retain their template after taking on a big one it seems like there is a precedent.
Some of that happened. I contracted Hurt Locker before we knew there would be a Storytelling System Second Edition Rulebook (now the Chronicles of Darkness Rulebook; which is to say, I've had to Control + F through the whole book twice to change book references) I also had a couple of people flake on their second drafts, and their first drafts weren't good enough that I could justify just cleaning them up and including them myself.
Also, I cut one of the minor templates because I just wasn't feeling it (the Cursed of Hachiko). I had some ideas for how to salvage it, but it was just way more trouble than it was worth; it would have been a fundamental restructuring from the ground up.
>I also had a couple of people flake on their second drafts, and their first drafts weren't good enough that I could justify just cleaning them up and including them myself.
Was anymore of the cut material stuff you've already previewed? Like, for example, the Supernatural Merits?
Mostly Unchained and Created. My favorite splats that I will never get to play...
A demon who fell for his animal companion. Has taken the cover of a homeless man in the city and is always followed by his faithful hound. Volunteers at local animal shelters regularly. I have kinda two concepts, one as an Inquisitor who has friends and contacts among the "street class" humans. Other homeless, small gangs, cabbies, food truck operators. That kind of thing. He keeps an ear out and one eye open that way, on the scenes that fly right under most of society's radar. Alternatively as a kind of tempter who just wants to live in the park and take in as many strays as possible.
Another Unchained who acts as a courier of sorts for his ring/agency. Accessing dead drops or tagging areas with coded graffiti. Has the cover of a colleged aged skater punk and runs around with an embedded skateboard and maybe a few other embedded/exploited gadgets (this would be the second character I've played with a specialty in expression for graffiti).
Kinda similar to this guy, but like a treeman promethean. Also totally want a robo promethean, because I love the AI wants to be human trope and being nanobots is cool as hell (I think Demon kinda does this a little better mechanically, though).
>I am not a robot, captcha.
>But I want to be...
>A demon who fell for his animal companion. Has taken the cover of a homeless man in the city and is always followed by his faithful hound. Volunteers at local animal shelters regularly. I have kinda two concepts, one as an Inquisitor who has friends and contacts among the "street class" humans. Other homeless, small gangs, cabbies, food truck operators. That kind of thing. He keeps an ear out and one eye open that way, on the scenes that fly right under most of society's radar. Alternatively as a kind of tempter who just wants to live in the park and take in as many strays as possible.
I love this idea. Why not give him a Patchwork Cover based on Altogether Andrews?
Never heard of him. Just googled, I never read Discworld, but it sounds like a pretty cool character. That being said I try to actively avoid basing my RPG characters on other fictional characters. At most, I might use them as a spring board or adopt one or two quirks into my character.
>Is that like The Pure?
No, they're mortals who've achieved immortality through occult power. They can separate their soul from their body, fly around the Shadow or in Twilight, and have access to Numina. If you kill them they just reform themselves in the Shadow.
What makes you think that? So far all I know that's in it is crossover material and alternative settings. There's probably still a couple thousand words in there for running a Vanilla Demon game.
>But RAW, I don't see anything to prevent it and with the way they do Wolfbloods now and allow them to retain their template after taking on a big one
So, like... should every Werewolf or most werewolves have a free Tell, or what?
>(the Cursed of Hachiko)
Good, because that was dumb, and I have no idea why a loyal loving dog would feel like cursing people who weren't loyal. People known for a nice thing don't murder people who aren't nice.
Loyal loving dogs can get pretty pissed off when they're dead. Nice people becoming total asshole after tragedy or after death is horror's bread and butter. That said, never really felt the Cursed of Hachiko. I like the psychic vampires more.
>So, like... should every Werewolf or most werewolves have a free Tell, or what?
Werewolves lose their tell upon becomnig a werewolf, it says this in the book.
But they keep the tell if they become a vampire or mage or whatever
... Krampus isn't actually Santa, you know, right? I mean, they're two different characters. If anything it's Black Pete who's the Krampus.
I don't. I like it more when Santa goes around knowing full well that he's giving children a death sentence. Like he's just got this misshapen demon wearing his dirty old clothes that follows him around. You wake up chained to a radiator in a dingy bathroom, cold and half naked and sticky blood matting your hair from where you were knocked in the head. And this jolly old man comes in and he chuckles nervously and tells you that you've been very naughty, and coal just won't cut it. And you don't really understand what he's saying--because of the head wound--and he starts telling you about his son, and how he's a Naughty boy, but he can't bring himself to punish him, so to make him Nice he has to provide him with... toys.
And then Santa leaves and the shitty fluorescent lights crackle and in the doorway you think you see Santa coming back, but his coat is darker, the red unwashed and dirty, and he's thinner, and hunched over, but still tall. And the figure steps in closer and his face is disfigured and twisted, the sclera of his eyes red, and lumps and knobs coming from his forehead, some rising up and twisting like horns. And he licks his lips and you can see that his teeth and grubby and yellow and stained, and sharp as knives...
You certainly put a lot of work into your BDSM snuff fanfiction, but Santa and Krampus being the same person is still pretty great. A lot of neat mythological vibes from that idea.
Hey, Chris, if you're around or come around, I have questions about werewolves.
What is the Pack like? The book seems to imply that a lot of the people on the lower rungs are come-and-go, and that Werewolves need a good cover story for their Pack, like a bar with a ritual the regulars do (that's actually a Rite). What are the kind of things that Packs do to hide their true nature? What kind of Territories do they claim?
Can you give more examples? I know you had your Paris game, with the unusual Territory set up.
Tonight is hopefully when I can wrangle the cats once and for all, and if they don't make decisions I'm going to start making some for them.
it's not quite that simple, no. They're weird, composite entities that are a melding of the spirit and the human, whichever personality is more dominant will get what it wants more often than not. USUALLY that's the spirit unless it's some kinda supernatural or a very weak spirit.
If that's what they all say, they don't really care and you should just go standard with it, because they probably won't be interacting with their hanger ons anyhow
No, Claimed take over completely.
Urged give the host a chance.
"Physically, the spirit is immediately as it was before
it Claimed a host. The spirit’s traits are all as they
were. But, similar to the human host, the spirit keeps
some mental traits of the psyche that it infiltrated
and wrapped around itself. It becomes just a little bit
more human than a spirit is supposed to be. Maybe
it occasionally thinks about how the human’s family
is doing or about how another spirit it consumes. It
might even have a small fascination with trains, if the
host was into that."
It takes over, but it also takes on aspects of the host.
>No, Claimed take over completely.
>Urged give the host a chance.
Raises the question (For me at least.) about what the third stage of being Ridden is.
I'd guess it'd be the Ridden spreading itself to other people, with a side order of being a walking Wound.
Yes, but the spirit controls them completely.
>I'd guess it'd be the Ridden spreading itself to other people, with a side order of being a walking Wound.
I can't see why you'd think that would be the third stage of being ridden (its just the first stage for other people), or why wounds would have anything to do with that
While I do worry that they won't be all that interested, I do think that the issue is they're all new and don't want to step on each other's toes. I've got two completely new players and one player new to Werewolf, and I'm having trouble getting them all together in the same four hour block, and attentive. I know some of it is also being online and without voice.
I'm hoping that I can get them to feel involved and interested tonight. That is my goal. If they don't get interested soon, I worry the whole thing might fall apart again. Hopefully preludes will also help.
>(its just the first stage for other people), or why wounds would have anything to do with that
Because, as more peopel reach the third stage of being Ridden and spread it, the Wound will get larger, the larger Wound the more spirits will come through into the World of Flesh (That is how Wounds work, right?)
>I've got two completely new players and one player new to Werewolf, and I'm having trouble getting them all together in the same four hour block, and attentive. I know some of it is also being online and without voice.
Which is why you should just go with the book and not try anything fancy, that way if they're at a loss they have the book to fall back on
they make wolf-blooded associates (coworkers, friends, cousins, close family members, frenemies, whatever) who they play when their werewolf is out of the picture or who are solely for a support role (focus them on contacts, being able to reach groups that the players can't), then the humans are just damsels in distress, people the werewolves care about but aren't going to be a major part of the game except when it comes to protecting them, and you have to keep the secret from them (otherwise they start losing integrity/having breaking points/going crazy),
What are the players playing? That may lend itself to easy ideas. If they're a motorcycle gang, the non-werewolves can be lesser members, if they're the ceos of a big company, the packmates can be valued employees and personal assistants
What this guy said >>44606741
>Which is why you should just go with the book and not try anything fancy, that way if they're at a loss they have the book to fall back on
Have you read the book? Oh man, the layout is atrocious. To the point that I'm tempted to make a quick reference so that they never have to go to the book for anything other than buying new things.
Anyway, it would be super useful if they were something like a motorcycle gang, but no such luck. They're a high school delinquent, a runaway kid, a homemaker, and a cop. I worry that maybe I should have had a tighter control on the whole "collaborative character creation" thing and had them first start with a group concept, instead of having them come up with individual character concepts and then tie them together.
do Maggaths take their original bane/ban or do they change with its shifting nature? Would a bliss spirit that took on the aspects of murder/violence get a bane/ban that had more to do with the latter two or stay with whatever it was at first?
They actually look like they'll be coming out pretty close together.
>Have you read the book? Oh man, the layout is atrocious.
Yes, and I had no prbolems with it.
High School Delinquent has delinquent friends/family/guidance counselor, runaway has person who works at shelter/other runaways/homeless folks, homemaker has family/neighbors/pta/hoa, cop has cops/family/criminal informants
Some tighter control would have been ideal, even if it was just telling them about the area and suggesting they work around key points there, but it's nothing you can't work with.
I haven't spoken with anyone who had a problem with it except yourself. I'm into my third game, our group's had no problem with it with two of them, and my online pals have had no problem with it.
Plenty of people in these threads (though admittedly mostly me) have complained about the layout of every WoD book.
But since you have no problems, tell me where I can find more about personalized Harmony Breaking Points. I know I saw it somewhere, but can't find it again.
>But since you have no problems, tell me where I can find more about personalized Harmony Breaking Points. I know I saw it somewhere, but can't find it again.
There's no such thing.
There's personalized Triggers, if that's what you mean.
Page 104 is the one time it gets mentioned:
>The breaking points below apply to all Uratha. They’re a starting point rather than a definitive list. The player and Storyteller should work together to define one or two breaking points in each direction for her character based on her auspice, tribe, and Touchstones. Breaking points toward Flesh involve actively denying her Uratha nature. Breaking points toward Spirit instead require her to turn her back on her heritage in the world of Flesh.
Considering how difficult or morally-compromising it is to trigger the breaking points listed as "for all Uratha", I suggest coming up with more than just one or two personal additions.
Nah, they're fine. Pretty sure there's at least one spirit of murder in the books. Animals would be like a zoo or pet store, with more specific animal spirits being more common in the wild (an eagle spirit).
That's my thing. From people who've played, it's hard to hit Spirit Breaks unless you're a complete asshole, but every one of those breaks the Oath, which puts you back towards Flesh anyway.
You seem to not have a lot of problems that everyone else seems to have. So that begs the question of just what it is you're doing that everyone else isn't, and why you seem to have a different experience.
>You seem to not have a lot of problems that everyone else seems to have. So that begs the question of just what it is you're doing that everyone else isn't, and why you seem to have a different experience.
I think you're confusing "everyone else" for one or two people
I read the book, that's it.
>That's my thing. From people who've played, it's hard to hit Spirit Breaks unless you're a complete asshole, but every one of those breaks the Oath, which puts you back towards Flesh anyway.
Have you ever killed a human in your games?
Hey! A book I wrote for is out!
Like I said last night, I did Giants in the Earth, the Promethean Crossover, and the Geist crossover. If anyone wants to ask questions or whatever about it, I'd be glad to answer them.
I think you're confusing one or two people for many people.
>every one of those breaks the Oath, which puts you back towards Flesh anyway.
Tell me more about the Geist crossover.
Depends on how much of a dick your ST is regarding "respect your prey".
And dropping Harmony from killing a human is difficult if you've got a decent Willpower score, since there's no negative modifier to your Harmony roll.
It's one of those "yes but no" things. It can totally be the real Demon history, or it can be fairy tale. I wrote it intending to be the real history, if that helps at all.
I did not stat jaw bones, but you may bust up motherfuckers with one with my blessing.
It's a quick run-down of the big things for Geist: Sin-Eaters, the Underworld, and the Dead Dominions, with abbreviated rules for each, plus some story seeds for Demon-Geist crossovers.
Killing a human also requires you to be willing to murder people (which is going to be difficult for a starting werewolf, since they're still very close to human in morality and outlook), and also results in police investigations, Hunters, angry Vampires or Mages who were using that human for something, etc. etc.
Isn't killing people or wolves a violation of the Oath?
Either way, killing a random person to get more in tune with nature is pretty solidly in the "being an asshole" territory.
Seeds like what? Also, what's this setting like? Are the demons still robotic?
This. It's not that every spirit breaking point also breaks the Oath, it's that every Spirit breaking point that reduces your Resolve+Composure pool enough to make dropping Harmony actually feasible does.
Either that or just make sure your Werewolf has 2 Willpower, I guess.
Which doesn't matter, because you've still hit a Breaking Point.
What the fuck are your players doing if they're not hitting breaking points? Did you read the 10 Commandments? The storytelling advice sections? The game is visceral, you shouldn't be just sitting around quipping to each other for hours like a Buffy marathon, you should be doing shit.
>Killing a human also requires you to be willing to murder people (which is going to be difficult for a starting werewolf, since they're still very close to human in morality and outlook)
You shouldn't all be playing cubs who are still whining over their first change
>and also results in police investigations, Hunters, angry Vampires or Mages who were using that human for something, etc. etc.
Yes, these are fucking plot hooks, these are problems that rise up when you kill people, but sometimes killing folks is a necessity because letting them away is breaking the oath
>Isn't killing people or wolves a violation of the Oath?
>Either way, killing a random person to get more in tune with nature is pretty solidly in the "being an asshole" territory.
What games are you people playing? Do humans not cause trouble in your territories? Do they never notice you change?
Seriously, how are you people playing your games? And WHY are you playing them if you're trying to remain as stable as possible.
>Either way, killing a random person to get more in tune with nature is pretty solidly in the "being an asshole" territory.
This. In my werewolf game we're playing people who generally aren't dickbags, and we're having to metagame our asses off in order to justify our characters doing things like unnecessarily killing and eating humans in order to get our Harmony scores down.
And of course, unnecessary killing of humans also violates "respect your prey", depending on how the ST is feeling.
>Do humans not cause trouble in your territories?
Sure they do. We deal with them in ways that aren't "rip their heads off and devour their entrails", because werewolves are actually capable of creative problem solving.
>Do they never notice you change?
No? Changing in front of humans violates the Oath, and is a Breaking Point toward Flesh, so we don't do it.
>Which doesn't matter, because you've still hit a Breaking Point.
...Yes it does? You don't get anything for hitting Breaking Points in werewolf. You only benefit if you actually drop Harmony, which is difficult if you've got a decent Willpower score. This requires you to hit Breaking Points over and over, which results in unnecessary and indiscriminate killing of humans, which is a violation of the Oath, which causes you to take a Breaking Point you ARE more likely to fail since being shifted toward Flesh penalizes rolls to not shift further toward Flesh.
Ah, fair enough. In that case, 'nother question. How exactly could a spirit 'use' the lower, weaker levels of influences? Things like strengthen, I read somewhere that "Strengthen:murder" might be use to empower a weapon or somethin similar?
This might surprise you but not everyone plays WoD characters who are sociopathic murderers that don't give a shit about human life.
>these are problems that rise up when you kill people
Which is why people might want to AVOID killing folks. Sometimes killing folks is necessary. Killing them to drop towards the Spirit isn't one of those times.
Because of this, does anyone have any suggestions for Spiritual Breaking Points that aren't "start eating hobos"?
>Breaking points toward Spirit instead require her to turn her back on her heritage in the world of Flesh.
Start there, I guess. Neglecting your responsibilities toward the humans in your lives in favor of ALL WEREWOLF ALL THE TIME, for example. Do literally nothing but hunt and manage your territory? Break toward Spirit.
>And of course, unnecessary killing of humans also violates "respect your prey", depending on how the ST is feeling.
It shouldn't, cause eating someone has nothing to do with respect.
>Sure they do. We deal with them in ways that aren't "rip their heads off and devour their entrails", because werewolves are actually capable of creative problem solving.
Really? So murderers and slashers and werewolf hunters are solved creatively?
>No? Changing in front of humans violates the Oath, and is a Breaking Point toward Flesh, so we don't do it.
So why aren't all your enemies just mindfucking you from a crowd, where you won't do shit to stand up to them?
>...Yes it does? You don't get anything for hitting Breaking Points in werewolf. You only benefit if you actually drop Harmony, which is difficult if you've got a decent Willpower score.
Which doesn't matter, because the point was you guys were not hitting breaking points whatsoever.
>This requires you to hit Breaking Points over and over, which results in unnecessary and indiscriminate killing of humans, which is a violation of the Oath
It is not a violation of the Oath, you can kill entire towns and not violate the oath
>This might surprise you but not everyone plays WoD characters who are sociopathic murderers that don't give a shit about human life.
Do you know where murder spirits come from?
Do you know where silver bullets come from?
Have you paid any attention to the news lately, with police abuse and corruption, with refugees bringing their cultures into foreign lands and causing culture clashes, with fucking gun nuts going on shooting sprees and militias taking over buildings?
These are all things you can be dealing with because if you don't, the spirit is going to be in an uproar. If it's in an uproar, you're fucked.
Humans can be antagonists.
I never said anyone had to be a sociopath, and it's fine to kill someone and feel sad about it. But you should be doing SOMETHING in your games.
What are your antagonists? Claimed who sit on top of a mountain being evil until someone kills them? Are you going to run out of mountains? Every location in the 2e book has a ton of plots ready for it, even in the most peaceful of werewolf cities there's danger on the horizon and often danger hidden behind the peace
Are you guys actually playing, or are you just theorycrafting based on a poor understanding of the book?
>It shouldn't, cause eating someone has nothing to do with respect.
I'd say randomly eating hobos to keep your sanity guage in check is pretty disrespectful...
Dude, it sounds like your werewolves either fuck up all the time, or your ST is throwing you softballs so that you have plenty of humans to murder without actually having to worry about managing your Harmony.
Have part of the actual definition of "Respect Your Prey" from the book:
>A pack that kills callously gains enemies among spirits who see them as cruel barbarians. Indifference to the deaths of animals and spirits leads to losing respect for the hunt itself. A true predator kills out of necessity, not mere desire.
>Indifference to deaths
>Only kill out of necessity
>Eating someone has nothing to do with respect
That's debatable, but it has everything to do with "Do Not Eat the Flesh of Man or Wolf", which is its own part of the Oath.
Did you even read the fucking book?
>So why aren't all your enemies just mindfucking you from a crowd, where you won't do shit to stand up to them?
Because we're not going up against superpowered psychic assholes who use crowds as human shields?
And resisting psychic influence is pretty trivial for werewolves.
>It is not a violation of the Oath, you can kill entire towns and not violate the oath
You're completely wrong here and I've already explained why.
>Humans can be antagonists.
And if your solution to every antagonist is "brutally murder it", you're not thinking hard enough. A werewolf is so far above the herd that killing a human is almost always excessive force.
>It shouldn't, cause eating someone has nothing to do with respect.
It does, when you consider the balance of predatory and prey in nature. You don't want to overhunt your prey, because not only is that how you lose your all your prey and your purpose, but because it's always a means of getting way too cocky. You won't be prepared for when the prey adapts in a last ditch effort to save themselves.
>I'd say randomly eating hobos to keep your sanity guage in check is pretty disrespectful...
1. It's not a sanity gauge.
2. You're the only one suggesting that the only possible way to kill humans is to do it randomly.
3. If you give them a clean death, it's not disrespectful at all.
>Dude, it sounds like your werewolves either fuck up all the time, or your ST is throwing you softballs so that you have plenty of humans to murder without actually having to worry about managing your Harmony.
It's a game about playing a werewolf, not trying to keep a 7 Harmony
Fuckups happen, they're supposed to happen, otherwise you're just flouncing around like a Mary Sue
And as for softballs, you're the one who's claiming their only antagonists are solved by talking it out, we've lost plenty of Harmony across the pack, because statistics will fail you
Yes, needing Essence can be necessity.
I didn't say you had to be indifferent to it.
>Did you even read the fucking book?
Yes, remember? You keep saying it's too hard to read because everything's out of order.
>Because we're not going up against superpowered psychic assholes who use crowds as human shields?
Conceptual spirits and emotional claimed would hang around humans as a point of fact. Other claimed would bring more humans to fucking eat because that's what they do to get Essence. Even in the fiction the beshilu hosts invade the bodies of children and police to torment the werewolves because, sociopaths or not, claimed, spirits, hosts, pure, werewolf hunters, they all hate werewolves.
>You're completely wrong here and I've already explained why.
And I just explained why I was right
>And if your solution to every antagonist is "brutally murder it", you're not thinking hard enough. A werewolf is so far above the herd that killing a human is almost always excessive force.
So how are you going to stop a slasher or mage fucking up the Shadow without killing it?
>You don't want to overhunt your prey,
No. We're not talking about your ridiculous "killing people means randomly killing a ton of people"
Killing one person is not upsetting the balance of nature.
>What are your antagonists?
Off the top of my head, from what I can remember:
Crow hosts and uppity spirits were the early stuff. A mortal gang at one point, which we DID deal with using mass murder (Gauru form forcing mortals to use Down and Dirty Combat so you kill an entire room full of human gangbangers in one round makes humans pretty laughable). Didn't drop Harmony from that, because Willpower was too high, and that also got an entire city's worth of werewolves pissed off at us doing ultraviolence on their territory and basically got us banned from that city.
Back in our home city? Dickass Mages, who we've dealt with via negotiation because the pack leader is an Elodoth and Mages are fucking dangerous. Weird melting MIB human-mimics who were part of some sort of weird conspiracy. Killing them didn't count as a break because they weren't actually humans.
A bunch of hunters in way over their heads in the northern part of our territory. They're just a bunch of stupid kids trying to protect themselves from monsters, so we've dealt with them by infiltrating their compact and directing them away from our activities.
We've had a grand total of one problem that was best solved via killing humans, and even then it was only because we were pressed for time and in foreign territory so we couldn't think up a better option.
>and basically got us banned from that city.
You don't have any Iron Masters of Hunters in Darkness?
>A bunch of hunters in way over their heads in the northern part of our territory. They're just a bunch of stupid kids trying to protect themselves from monsters, so we've dealt with them by infiltrating their compact and directing them away from our activities.
What monsters were they trying to protect themselves from?
>We've had a grand total of one problem that was best solved via killing humans, and even then it was only because we were pressed for time and in foreign territory so we couldn't think up a better option.
I think it's also a bit of your StoryTeller now, rather than just you
And you can change Harmony in ways other than killing humans. Is everyone going to the Shadow once a week? Is there nothing there that requires long-term attention? When other werewolves came to kick you out of the territory (which you've vowed to honor and protect, providing you have an IM or HiD), did you resist?
I'd really suggest re-reading the Auspice/Tribe section and Chapter 2. ST shouldbe reading the Storytelling section
Yes it is. You have reduced the population, you start a chain reaction in the herd, among other aspects of nature being influenced, if only slightly. Individuals matter just as much as the aggregate.
>You don't have any Iron Masters of Hunters in Darkness?
One Iron Master, one Hunter in Darkness, one ex-Storm Lord now Ghost Wolf, one Bone Shadow.
>What monsters were they trying to protect themselves from?
Can't exactly remember as I've missed a few sessions recently for real-life reasons, but I believe it started out with the freaky MIB guys we dealt with, and now they know there's weird shit out there and want to be prepared. We got in there early so they didn't start hunting werewolves.
>Is everyone going to the Shadow once a week?
Yes? Crossing over into the Shadow is fairly trivial if you've got a locus in your territory, and only patrolling the physical half of your territory would make you an idiot.
>Is there nothing there that requires long-term attention?
Sure, but none of it's 24/7 attention. We can afford to take a few hours to head into the Hisil and check on things every so often.
>When other werewolves came to kick you out of the territory (which you've vowed to honor and protect, providing you have an IM or HiD), did you resist?
It wasn't our territory. Our territory's New York. We went back to Philadelphia, where the Iron Master grew up, because some of the people he grew up with were in trouble with that gang we ended up wiping out and needed help, and he insisted on going and solving the issue personally. Philly's local packs were not pleased with our intrusion on their territory, and told us to get the hell out so they could clean up our mess. We took the Iron Master's people back with us to New York and have resettled them in our territory.
We're currently arguing (though it seems to have died down) about werewolf.
One side says that werewolves aren't likely to kill humans.
The other side says that it should be happening occasionally.
Also there's some theories about Storytellers softballing it
These are all the antagonists a pack has faced.
Can you tell us what happened in your Paris game, after the podcast stopped being updated? Or just some points where the players had Breaking Points?
Oh, I forgot the local Pure who moved in. We dealt with them via negotiation as well, as well as some shady dealings in the shadow to strengthen our relative position. They're fine with this because they're a bunch of Fire-Touched who'd rather convert us than kill us, and we're hoping to slowly get them to turn coat as well.
Also they've got major feelers in the NYPD, and we don't want them bringing the police to bear against us, because those are just innocent men and women doing their jobs.
The Pure of the Fire-Touched — the Izidakh — are mad-
eyed zealots filled with fervor and faith, the disciples of Rabid
Wolf. They are creatures of the Shadow, serving as prophets
and priests for that otherworldly realm, and they choose as
their sacred prey those who they see as dishonoring and dis-
respecting it. The Fire-Touched see the Forsaken as deluded
betrayers, but believe that some can be saved – if they would
only listen to the feverish words of Fire-Touched preachers.
Those who would hunt the Fire-Touched must deal with
their incredible armory of rites and esoteric Shadow lore — the
high priests and templars of the tribe can warp the Shadow
and break its laws with ease. They are extremely numerous,
and adherents often wield spiritual magics of disease and
madness that they will not hesitate to use against the Forsaken
and their allies. Worst of all are the insistent promises and
persuasive offers of salvation; the Fire-Touched want to talk,
and they wield words as adeptly as any weapon.
>Worst of all are the insistent promises and
persuasive offers of salvation; the Fire-Touched want to talk, and they wield words as adeptly as any weapon.
This is the important part with respect to these particular Fire-Touched.
They're cops, and they understand the concept of restraint. As far as they're concerned they have all the power, so we don't need to be killed when we can be turned.
This is why we're being subtle.
No. Se, in Apocalypse it's okay to randomly murder people and thin the herd.
Can you give me some avice for my Werewolf pack? >>44608487 gets a bit of it, asking about Breaking Points, but I'm also curious about things like the Totems and Bans and just what the mortals that are part of the pack think they're doing. What are the not-player parts of the Pack like?
Also, where you goin'?
It is kind of a sanity gauge. And I'm saying that the only way to reliably lower your Harmony when you're high harmony seems to be to kill lots of people. Others who've played the game have the same issue.
And, no, it's not about trying to keep Harmony 7. It's about people having trouble getting BELOW Harmony 7. It's about maintaining Balance, but it's much easier to break towards Flesh than Spirit.
And for someone who's read the book, you seem to have missed the part where eating someone for Essence is BAD. It's against the Oath.
You're acting like every antagonist is a human, and that it's so easy to break down to Spirit without a problem.
I can't remember exactly how far the podcasts got to, but I tend to throw all sorts of breaking points in depending on what was happening; the first time they called upon a Lune for renown branding as a break towards spirit, for example. Or going back and seeing mortal family or acquaintances, being breaks towards flesh (if doing their best to get back into. Their old life) or spirit (for those moments when they were faced with never being ab,e to go back to it and realising their distance from what and who they once were) as appropriate. Basically. I use far more breaking points than the standard list alone.
>And for someone who's read the book, you seem to have missed the part where eating someone for Essence is BAD. It's against the Oath.
I was talking about killing people.
>You're acting like every antagonist is a human,
I'm really not, but humans should be a big part of the game, and are likely to be incorporated in almost every antagonists plans, if they're not antagonists themselves
> and that it's so easy to break down to Spirit without a problem.
You should be facing more breaking points.
Even the guy who was telling us about his antagonists seems to be getting softballs. Friendly pure, who are cops, who just want to talk? The Fire-Touched talk first, then kill
>Where words fail, she brings the rather more direct purification of fire and pain and blood.
> Still, those who reject the teachings find that the Truth-Speaker is no coward. Better, after all, to pray for the souls of the dead than let them continue to live in sin.
Hunters who are just a bunch of kids.
Werewolves kicking them out of their territory without a fight.
Hosts who are just trolling.
First part of Chapter 2:
>Werewolves aren’t human.
>Humans are taught some elementary rules from a very early age. Don’t steal. Don’t kill. These two are the rules with some of the most weight, and most humans follow them diligently. By contrast, werewolves simply aren’t put together that way. If a werewolf possesses a thing — territory, a weapon, a vehicle — he must be strong enough to keep it. As for killing, the Uratha are born hunters and killers. Werewolves change form, heal at an astonishing rate, step into the spirit world, and call upon powers torn into their very souls, to name a few abilities. Their forms are all optimized for various roles in the hunt.
>Almost every successful hunt ends with the prey’s violent, bloody death.
Varies a lot, generally allows you to increase the intensity of an occurrence relating to the concept or gain some direction over it.
Violence, for example. Strengthen an existing person leaning towards violence to trigger them into actually committing it. Fire it off over a brawl to see overall increased intensity of the fighting fewer people falling to beaten down and instead fighting on, or there being more casualties from the brutality. Manipulate to help channel and have basic control where that violence goes and the form it takes; a savage beating rather than a killing, or for the violent man to lean towards picking a fight wi this guy rather than that guy. Etc.
Not every Hunt is against a human. In fact, most aren't, unless you're an Iron Master. Sometimes the thing might have once been a human, but usually that's already gone by and they're monsters.
Not a set one, but if the st is quick on their feet there can be. Joy strengthened could, mechanically, reduce a targets composure or resolve. Maybe make social manoeuvres playing off their. State of mind faster. Karate, er, is an odd one but ok, strengthening it could grant a subject with a karate specialty an extra die on their attacks, or increase the number of dots they have in a suitable fighting style temporarily, etc.
Damn, how unfortunate. I've got a player in the game where a claimed is about to pop up who can see just about anything in twilight, guess I don't get to describe the actual spirit as being behind the claimed in a stand-style.
>Not every Hunt is against a human.
No one said they were.
>In fact, most aren't, unless you're an Iron Master.
A werewolf is not obliged to hunt their sacred prey, anyone can hunt humans. All wolves must hunt.
Totems and bans - what about them?
Mortals in pack - varies. In my Paris game, the mortals were all clued in re werewolves and were the ex cultists of a cult that a bale hound had been running before the PCs saved them. In my Wroclaw game, the mortals were the actual human staff at the veterinary surgery that one of the PCs ( Daveb's ithaeur) ran.
I am in my way back to the uk from Poland. Or would be if the plan had arrived yet.
that could also work, though It might just be fun to watch them puzzle out "Why the fuck is this human so much stronger than normal?"
True, gonna definitely be fun to watch my hunters play amateur spirit-police and try to fix this nightmare
>Friendly pure, who are cops, who just want to talk? The Fire-Touched talk first, then kill
They're not "friendly", they just don't consider negotiations to have broken down yet, and they have their own shit to deal with.
>Werewolves kicking them out of their territory without a fight.
We're on relatively friendly terms with the packs in Philly (they're the ones who picked us up after our respective First Changes, so they know us), and there's the whole "don't kill other werewolves" part of the Oath.
>Hunters who are just a bunch of kids.
Lots of Hunters have no idea what the fuck they're doing. We've been low-key enough not to attract the really crazy ones, I guess.
What you're seeing as "softballs" is more "positive results from succeeding at being discrete and social maneuvering".
>What you're seeing as "softballs" is more "positive results from succeeding at being discrete and social maneuvering".
It's not the results that are softballs, its the issues to begin with
In general, though, most of the really heavy-hitters we've been hunting have been either spirits, or weird out-of-context World of Darkness bullshit. The humans are smalltime.
My ST also seems to be a big fan of the general nWoD theme that solving your problems with lethal violence almost always creates more problems than it solves (which is the whole theme of Hurt Locker, among other things), and our characters generally know that particular truth.
No one said they were, but you're acting like they are.
The crux of this argument is that people have said that it's hard to break towards Spirit, and that the methods for doing so are often not something most characters will want to do because of their personality.
You on the other hand say that it's easy, and you can just kill humans. You've even suggested slaughtering a whole town.
Anyone CAN hunt humans, but most werewolves aren't going to have reason to. Not every werewolf is going to want to murder humans, which is the easiest Breaking Point towards Spirit.
Mostly just trying to figure out what suggestions and examples to give my players. I'm trying to figure out how to tie together a runaway, a delinquent, a MILF, and a cop. So far our only Wolfblooded is the momma bear's husband. What sort of appearances and formats do Packs take? One of the big problems with 2e is that a lot of concepts like that don't get a lot of room to breath.
How out of character would it be to have a Magath as a Spirit? The guy upthread made a god point that a Magath with a Pack is less likely to cause problems.
Weird out of context shit and violence causing problems are the best ways to play WoD.
They're basically reverse-claimed so yeah. But in the end it'd depend on which side of things thye fell on (if they were friendly and willing to help the werewolves, go allies, if not, fuck them)
>You've even suggested slaughtering a whole town.
I said that in response to "killing people is against the oath"
>and that the methods for doing so are often not something most characters will want to do because of their personality.
It is ignoring the main part of werewolf, where you are a werewolf, not a human, and don't work with human sensibilities
>but most werewolves aren't going to have reason to.
Humans are the source of claimed, of many spirits and practically all conceptuals/emotions, most wounds, they're hosts to shartha, they become hunters
There's more reasons to kill humans than spirits
>How out of character would it be to have a Magath as a Spirit? The guy upthread made a god point that a Magath with a Pack is less likely to cause problems.
I for one approve of this horrible idea, if only for the hilarity.
>It is ignoring the main part of werewolf, where you are a werewolf, not a human, and don't work with human sensibilities
Except being shifted toward Flesh literally means your sensibilities are more human than werewolf, and every werewolf start shifted toward Flesh.
>Except being shifted toward Flesh literally means your sensibilities are more human than werewolf
Harmony has nothing to do with your sensibilities.
Your sensibilities stopped being human when you became a werewolf, and have nothing to do with Harmony, the book doesn't even suggest it has something to do with harmony.
That's more an issue of power. She's very powerful (but not necessarily the spirit of America) and because of that would dominate her relationship with a pack
You don't get an out because of your tribe, Harmony is Harmony. But losing Harmony isn't the end of the game, because you can regain it.
Being a Werewolf doesn't mean ignoring humanity. In fact, being a werewolf means keeping some of your human sensibilities as well as Spiritual once. Just because humans are the source of Claimed and Humans can become problems doesn't mean every Werewolf is going to be okay murdering humans.
Your sensibilities don't just automatically change when you do. Also, yes, it does. Have you not read the Harmony section?
>Your sensibilities don't just automatically change when you do.
>First part of Chapter 2:
>>Werewolves aren’t human.
>>Humans are taught some elementary rules from a very early age. Don’t steal. Don’t kill. These two are the rules with some of the most weight, and most humans follow them diligently. By contrast, werewolves simply aren’t put together that way. If a werewolf possesses a thing — territory, a weapon, a vehicle — he must be strong enough to keep it. As for killing, the Uratha are born hunters and killers. Werewolves change form, heal at an astonishing rate, step into the spirit world, and call upon powers torn into their very souls, to name a few abilities. Their forms are all optimized for various roles in the hunt.
>>Almost every successful hunt ends with the prey’s violent, bloody death.
>Also, yes, it does. Have you not read the Harmony section?
Yes, and it says nothing about sensibilities or emotions or humanity beyond a lack of shapeshifting.
Have you? Because it seems like everyone I talk to is reading some version of the book that doesn't exist
>Your sensibilities don't just automatically change when you do. Also, yes, it does. Have you not read the Harmony section?
Where does it say anything about human sensibilities?
If you had told me that there'd be a multi-hour argument over Werewolf this time last year I would never have believed you. Here's hoping it's this way about other games come next year.
That's not a fucking instant thing. You don't stop caring about your family or killing people once you Change. Shit, man, Chris even pointed out that he's had people Break towards Flesh for doing family stuff instead of Werewolf stuff.
You seem to be reading a version of the book no one else is.
Dude, half the time I'm arguing with people about Mage, it's to point out they're wrong and that Mages aren't the greatest. It's not like I'm "primarily a Mage fan". I'd have thought this thread would consider me "primarily a Geist fan".
But we're arguing about how the Harmony rules are shit and don't actually work the way they seem to be designed to work (namely, werewolves making Breaks in both directions all the time, and actually shifting Harmony when they do).
How is that a good thing?
>That's not a fucking instant thing. You don't stop caring about your family or killing people once you Change. Shit, man, Chris even pointed out that he's had people Break towards Flesh for doing family stuff instead of Werewolf stuff.
You don't play a werewolf who has just had his first change. You play a werewolf who's already lost two Harmony
> Humans who go through the First Change replace Integrity with Harmony, and start with nine dots regardless of their Integrity.
And who has joined a tribe
Notice the book I posted a page from? That's the book.
Hurt Locker spoilers - Psychic Vampires
The recent lesser splats from Hurt Locker , today's psychic vampires. and the recently spoiled pacifists and lucky people, have been really uninspiring and dull.
I hope the book does not devote too much attention to these splats, and instead we get many more crunchy merits and systems.
DavidH is usually very good with merits (I think his "advanced" merits in Beast were one of the few small redeeming parts of the book), and I hope Hurt Lockers focuses on those strengths.
>I hope the book does not devote too much attention to these splats, and instead we get many more crunchy merits and systems.
(10,000 Words, Vivian Paul 5k, Brian York 5k)
I want a few supernatural “micro templates” related to violence. You can find an example micro template here, in my psychic vampires. That’s like 1,500 words, but I spare nothing. It’s just raw text. For these, I would like two where you give a little description of what they are, and an example character that fits in the template.
Consider a pseudo-science supersoldier type, and maybe someone that channels spiritual energies or some shit. Bonus points if you can wrap them in real world pseudoscience or occultism and not condescend to someone’s culture.
Four templates in all. Brian, I’d like you to do one that could fit into the Tokyo setting chapter. Each of these should get about 2,500 words. But if you want to do a 2k and 3k, that’s fine, too.
>Consider a pseudo-science supersoldier type,
I would like to see a supersoldier "micro-template" in Hurt Locker, and the pacifists, lucky people, and psychic vampires definitely don't fill that niche.
The Plain fit the violence theme, at least. Dunno about the other two. Maybe the supersoldier idea is being handled in a non-previewed part of the chapter. Personally, I'd be down with the whole "use modern pseudoscience and pseudospirtuality" and create a secret military project that attempts to use The Vortex/A Course in Miracles/The Secret style-philosophy to make people dead.
>I have spoken my intentions to The Universe, and it's for my pointman to put a bullet between your eyes.
>I'd be down with the whole "use modern pseudoscience and pseudospirtuality" and create a secret military project
Aren't these types of themes and ideas central to Deviant: the X, an entire CofD game line to be developed by DaveB?
>Everything demons know about idigam point to a single, terrifying conclusion — idigam are aborted embryonic God-Machines who lust after their elder sibling’s power. The idigam will reshape the world to their desires and the God-Machine’s subtle manipulations appear incapable of stopping them.
They don't believe in the Father Wolf myth
Analysts: Their mythology doesn’t withstand objective
scrutiny. Not all their stories can be true.
Destroyers: Every wolf is a destroyer, no matter the role
they assign for themselves.
Guardians: They fiercely protect what’s theirs, but they
invite the threats with their actions.
Messengers: There’s precious few people — or things —
they’ll listen to. If you’re careful, they might let you in.
Psychopomps: Spirits watch over them. Never forget
invisible eyes watch your every move when you deal with
Apparently one of the upcoming Werewolf book is going to possibly point out flaws in the agreed upon history of werewolves as well
Strix destroy infrastructure.
I like how Demons are constantly trying to ally with the enemies of every other game.
They're entropy incarnate, it fits.
Since you asked.
It doesn't have Beast, though.
This is from a small section, there's more than I'm pasting, each grouping has makeshift rules so you can fit the monsters in without requiring the books, and some adventure ideas.
Very brief insert about huntsmen
>mages got a really long one
Well, yeah, because MAGES ARE THE BESTEST AND THEIR COSMOLOGY DECIDES EVERYTHING.
One, what are your spiritual touchstones doing? they should be tempting you towards your more spirity side. One of my players had a phantom car following her(she was a stunt driver) every time she got behind the wheel of a car, it always wanted to lead her down a different road, a road that would take her deep into the shadow, where and when she got back she wouldn't know, but her human life would suffer(but she would be alive! Nothing says fuck you to a foe then running into a different dimension.) It is okay if they feel a bit powerful, they may be a part of your character, but you have no control on how they ruin your life.
>Read the last three words I said. Find the key word.
Are you using your touchstones? If not I recommend you do so! They can help keep the balance when you can't think of anything. If you are then consider giving your spirit touchstones a bit of a buff, as you seam to have some problems keeping balance.
Two, you seam to have too much free time. I'm sorry if I sound like an asshole, but if your threats show up, and die then they were never really threats to begin with. Your storyteller needs to keep the tension and make hard choices. Not everyone is easily tracked, some are easy to track but they are so difficult to deal with they do not care.
You kill one gang and a more violent one comes, this one fears wolves and comes prepared.
You killed the monster, now meet the master.
Spirits live in a delicate ecosystem, you have unbalanced it.
Not every wise man wants whats best for everyone.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Remember that consequence help bring the story to life. Don't drown the players in them however, that would be retarded.
These are the new alchemists, it looks like.
Here's Principle and Qashmallim.
You guys are funny.
You might as well just upload the book to mega or something. It's not like it's watermarked.
I had the idea in Promethean but Matt wanted to keep crossovers out of the corebooks.
So then he was asking people who wanted the crossover bits of the Storyteller's guide and I was like :D
I chose Promethean and begged on my hands and knees for Giants in the Earth. It was a lot more exalted-y in my head but I'm mega happy with how it came out.
I forget what my second choice for the crossover was, let me go check.
Oh, huh. Looks like I wanted Promethean (mainly so I could use the cool thing about cover and disquietm and to write about the God-Machine and the Qashmallim together, because who doesn't want to be the voice of authority on that) and Changeling.
I don't remember why besides that Changeling is rad.
Honestly I think the suggestion from GMC (but the other way around) would be good for Demon.
The Principle and the God-machine two halves of a broken whole. It would be a good hook for Integrators.
This got explained a few days ago - for most people, freelance writing work is like their second or third major priority, so people end up missing deadlines and OPP usually can't get upset about it without being total assholes.
We'll see if it stays that way if Paradox gives any kind of conviction to their saber rattling at the WoD Panel they did. Granted, that seems like it's more aimed at other IPs, but we'll see.
Way, way back when White Wolf was a company instead of a brand name, they adhered to a strict publishing schedule because bookstores, distributors, etc expect number X of fucking books on date Y whether Author Z was done with the book or not. Sometimes this turned out really bad. I'm sure you can all think of an example.
Onyx Path's policy is "It's done when it's done." Sometimes this works out really well and lets authors do something cool that they otherwise wouldn't have time to flesh out. But then if one author or artist misses a deadline, or a developer can't get to redlines as quick as they would like, basically if anyone drops the ball, that whole book has a problem now.
Everyone's got their own shit. Even the best laid plans of mice and men and all that. Not to mention that it'll take some time for people to return to regular schedules after the holidays. Some people aren't even back at work yet, lucky bastards.
I meant game schedules. I've got a no-show player and it's been an hour since we were supposed to hash things out for the game. I have two, actually, but one at least gave me heads up and is in the channel so he can see the logs when he wakes up.
Yeah. A while back ago, I posted a dump of Merits, physical and fighting mostly. A lot of those were redundant and not up to snuff, so they got cut.
I had a writer in that section that really flaked; stopped answering emails during redlines. So instead of fully revising his stuff and letting him collect the check for that (which I might do if it were amazing content in the first draft, but it wasn't), I cut those words and allocated them elsewhere.
The Supernatural Merits all pretty much stayed into second drafts.
I'm not mean enough to have a one strike policy, and I don't have enough players to kick people willy nilly anyway. I already kicked one person for not being as interested as I'd like, but that turned out to be a bad idea because her replacement is flakey.
Hey David, as a followup to the Changeling discussion from a couple days back, how much support is there for Changeling characters who aren't particularly interested in keeping a stable mundane life and prefer spending their time in the Hedge and around other weird shit in the World of Darkness after having spent too much time in Arcadia?
Are they going to immediately rocket to Clarity 0 or are those sorts of characters actually playable?
Being constantly surrounded by crazy storybook bullshit holds a lot of the appeal of Changeling for me.
I was excited when I found out about 2e allowing characters with no Seeming, for example.
That's all I know.
The general implication seems to be that you either wandered out by freak accident, or your Keeper LET you leave.
Both of which have interesting implications in turn.
>Hey David, as a followup to the Changeling discussion from a couple days back, how much support is there for Changeling characters who aren't particularly interested in keeping a stable mundane life and prefer spending their time in the Hedge and around other weird shit in the World of Darkness after having spent too much time in Arcadia?
The first supplement book is called "The Hedge". I wouldn't make a supplement book about it if it were a quick ticket to losing all your Clarity.
The Hedge is awesome. And dangerous. And awesome.
It's one of the ways you can access people's dreams for Oneiromancy shit.
Also, if you're in the "real world" and a Huntsman's after you, you can lose his trail by going to the Hedge. If you're in the Hedge, you can lose his trail by going to the real world. So, expect a lot of shifting back and forth during pursuit.
Also, you have a thing called an Icon. Which is basically the part of you that was torn out during your escape. It exists in the Hedge. If a Huntsman gets it, he always knows where you are. So, it's worth voyaging to the Hedge to go find it. However, if your Wyrd is high, it fades back into the Hedge with time. So you've got to go digging again if you want to keep it safe.
Also, there's going to be a bit in The Hedge about changing your Seeming. Basically, it'll involve a quest into the Hedge, where you put yourself in danger and flee again, essentially rewriting your escape.
>Also, there's going to be a bit in The Hedge about changing your Seeming. Basically, it'll involve a quest into the Hedge, where you put yourself in danger and flee again, essentially rewriting your escape.
...Huh. Ok, you now have my attention.
I cannot confirm or deny. Aoi Honoo is pretty much my favorite television show ever, so I can't diss her for Eva references.
Although there was that bit in Promethean 2e where one of the characters jerks off on a coma patient. I imagine that's a fire-worthy offense to some if you don't get the reference.
>The first supplement book is called "The Hedge". I wouldn't make a supplement book about it if it were a quick ticket to losing all your Clarity.
>The Hedge is awesome. And dangerous. And awesome.
Can you "go native" and live there?
I played a character like that in 1e - spent 29 days of the month in the Hedge, then visited humans for one day a month just to keep some semblance of Clarity. Guy was a hermit the local Freehold thought was a total fucking weirdo and trusted about as far as they could throw him, but he was invaluable whenever they needed to get anywhere, find anything there, or had bumped into something they couldn't explain. I was never sure that character was properly legit according to 1e.
How legal is that sort of character in 2e?
Will there be any explicit crossover support in the new Changeling corebook or The Hedge?
Specifically, I'm curious how mages interact with the Hedge. DaveB, despite doing a great job with Mage 2e, sadly seems absolutely determined to avoid any and all crossover issues.
>Although there was that bit in Promethean 2e where one of the characters jerks off on a coma patient. I imagine that's a fire-worthy offense to some if you don't get the reference.
Please tell me Matt cut that bit out. Even with it being a reference it's incredibly crass.
>Specifically, I'm curious how mages interact with the Hedge. DaveB, despite doing a great job with Mage 2e, sadly seems absolutely determined to avoid any and all crossover issues.
I hope it's not "haha they're fucked it destroys their soul" this time around.
>wandered out by freak accident
That sounds dumb, but the good kind of dumb
Imagine the reaction to a Changeling who was like, "Yeah, I just walked back out the way I came. Didn't you guys?"
He's also DaveB's spirit animal.
On the one hand I hope you're kidding, but on the other I can see that showing up in a WoD book.
That doesn't really sound like PC material. I mean, as an ST I wouldn't accept a character who spends 29 days of the month without interacting with anyone.
Nope. I like Mage well enough; I did a little writing in it. But from a cost/benefit standpoint, it would have been a pretty enormous pain in the ass to coordinate with Dave, for a tiny shred of text that not many players would use.
I know we're not using the word "Oneiros" to cut down on some confusion.
Like, I guess there's nothing really stopping mages from going to the Hedge. I don't know why they would, though. There's not really much for them there. And I don't really want to devote attention to it, because down that rabbit hole lies, "BUT WHY CAN'T MY WIZARD MURDER ALL THE GENTRY" or whatever. If in your games, you want mages to access the Hedge, go for it. My stance is that if it happens, it's sufficiently rare that it's not worth bringing up.
>I guess there's nothing really stopping mages from going to the Hedge. I don't know why they would, though. There's not really much for them there.
MYSTERIES are there. Finding crazy shit in the Hedge is worth Arcane XP, at least.
"Why can't my wizard murder all the Gentry" is silly. Gentry are as much setting and landscape as they are characters.
I dunno. I make a TON of them, but I feel that they're sufficiently oblique that most people don't notice them. My Carthian chapter in Secrets of the Covenants is jam packed with references. I would be shocked if people identify like 5% of them.
To be fair, that's only if you're NOT on a trod. And if you're NOT on a trod, no matter who you are you're probably fucked.
>I know we're not using the word "Oneiros" to cut down on some confusion.
I feel like this is a silly choice. I don't know why 2e seems afraid of that kind of overlap. It feels weird to me that with Beast there are now THREE or so different dream realms.
Why can't everyone just use the same dream realm? Everyone uses the same Shadow.
I don't know whether it's a testament to dry wit or to White Wolf that people took that seriously for a good few minutes.
Still two. The Primordial Dream isn't its own realm, it's a portion of the Temenos. Think of it as a large rocky mountain range and valley as opposed to its own continent.
Wood's my favorite WW/CCP/OPP writer. If it weren't for him, I would have never got into writing for games. He's also just a really great guy in general. It's a shame I don't get to work with him anymore, but I can't blame him for a second for walking away from game writing.
If you haven't seen his game MSG, it's a really funny read, and a nice one-shot.
>Like, I guess there's nothing really stopping mages from going to the Hedge. I don't know why they would, though. There's not really much for them there.
I always thought Goblin Markets were great for crossover of all types, but particularly for mages. In fact, I cannot think of a better location to procure some of the weirder supernatural doohickeys or Quintessences needed for imperial spells.
If I recall correctly, there was even a stray reference in Changeling 1e that it wasn't uncommon for mages to be found in Goblin Markets, both as patrons and vendors.
I could see it going both ways. I prefer to keep them separate, if only because it's more practical for my team. I don't want to exponentially increase their background reading/research requirements for the gig, to make sure everyone's on the same page.
It also means the earlier game gets to set a lot of ground rules for later games, and that means the later games don't get the same degree of freedom to focus on what they're about.
I'm not 100% sure of it yet, but I think I'm doing goblin markets as a sort of 'between place' that's both Hedge and real world. I think it's more interesting if non-wizards can stumble upon goblin markets.
I kinda want to run a chronicle that's all humans who stumbled upon a goblin market. You know, in my copious amounts of free time.
>It also means the earlier game gets to set a lot of ground rules for later games, and that means the later games don't get the same degree of freedom to focus on what they're about.
I feel like one of the major benefits of 2e is that it allows for but doesn't dwell on that kind of thing, especially with the fact that Hunter style "don't worry about it" monster creation is now front and center in core.
The book suggests using Demonic Form options from other books in order to jazz up your Cheiron agents
Members of Network Zero are just normal humans. They often work independently of each other, though sometimes they organize meet and greets and information exchanges. Members of Network Zero pose a serious threat to demons through their activities, but they are easy enough to kill.
The God-Machine has angels infiltrate the group regularly looking specifically for demon sightings. While it isn’t the fastest way to gain information, it is reliable. A demon who has members of Network Zero operating in her city will find her cover compromised before too long if she isn’t very careful.
>I kinda want to run a chronicle that's all humans who stumbled upon a goblin market. You know, in my copious amounts of free time.
I always perceived mortal humans to be neither patrons nor vendors at Goblin Markets, but rather the goods bought and sold, or worse...
Christ, home some three hours late after huge delays. Plus some guy on the plane got arrested.
On the plus side, the Demon excerpts on Forsaken stuff look great.
>Apparently one of the upcoming Werewolf book is going to possibly point out flaws in the agreed upon history of werewolves as well
That'd be the Neolithic chapter of Dark Eras, yes.
Sweet! Really liked that merit, and many of the fighting styles, too. Glad to see most stayed.
Speaking of, did the "super soldier" micro template get in? It was hinted in the outline, but I don't think I have seen it.
It's dramatically unfinished. ̶P̶l̶a̶y̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶B̶l̶o̶o̶d̶l̶i̶n̶e̶s̶Trying to get Werewolf running has eaten into my homebrewing time.
This is also a first draft that I need to scrap.
Magath Totem: Y/N?
Also, making a bit of headway with my group. They're set up in the Clock Tower, their Totem is a Mystery spirit that takes the form of a bat, and it wants to learn and unravel secrets.
Does the Totem start with 0 dots in everything or ● in everything? The book seems to imply it starts at 0 ("The totem must have at least one dot in each Attribute") but it'd be the first time I've seen something in a WoD book that starts at 0 instead of one.