What's so bad about Ultras? Are SM players so retarded they

>>44581398
They're child-friendly blue space nazis. Everyone should have a problem with them.

>>44581398
Smurfs have a really good color scheme and get a lot of attention in the fluff, which meant a lot of new players choose them

/tg/ is home to a bunch of contrarians who like dartk, gritty, grey-morality antihero chapters like the minotaurs and new faux-latin space sharks.

The fandom wanking over them, including the ones working for GW.

>>44581398
For me, i'm just tired of them because they are everywere and everyone and his dog plays them.

They arent complete shit but they are not interesting enough to be the face of the company

>>44581429
and romans arnt nazis you sjw fuck

>I never seen Chaos players crying because Black Legion steals the spot or that Failbadon is said to be the most powerful chaos lord

That's because it never was said that everyone actively regrets not being black legion, or that not being black legion means you're being a csm the wrong way, or that the ec actually are just tsundere for abaddon and consider him their true spiritual liege

>>44581523
>what is the imperium

go cry at the world you memesketeer.

>>44581647
How can you possibly be this retarded? In a setting where literally you could pick ANY other faction and you could somewhat-tangentially slap the 'nazi' tag on them, you chose the one faction that prides itself on being the most civilised in the galaxy.

>>44581647
How about you stop yelling "nazi" at everything thats not as leftist-liberal and "progressive" as you are, faggot
40k has nothing to do with political bullshit

>>44581727
(I'm not the same person, I was just saying the Imperium was based on all things bad from the 20th Century, go cry harder at something else)
>>44581719
Again, I was referring to the Imperium not the roman/greek influences of the ultramarines. All I implied was that the Imperium is a pretty fascist place and used a shitty portmanteau of musketeer and meme.

You guys need to chill out a little bit.

>>44581398
>what's so bad about Ultras
nothing. people hate on them because they were GW's posterboys for SM, so all the 12yo kids played them.
UM hate didn't start with Matt Ward, but he sure made it worse.

>Ultramarines are the greatest of them all
Ultramarine fan here. no they aren't. they are the closest to the Codex, and and the Codex defines what it should be to be a space marine.
they are noble, honourable, and competent.
they aren't the "greatest" because they are the better at space marine-ing than all the other space marines. they are the "greatest" because they uphold the values presented in the Codex the most.

>Failbaddon
>smurfs
also, you're the cancer killing /tg/

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>>44581398
The problem is that they are exponentially better at everything, fucking Cato Sicarius can do anything his giant smurf ass is sent to do.

>>44581964
To be fair though, I was under the impression that Cato's pretty much excellent at doing stuff but has implied/stated to be an arrogant cockwomble supreme. So....character development?

>>44581398
That's because the Black Legion is boring and no one likes them anyway.

>>44581964
are you retarded? he lost to the necrons

I think it has a lot to do with Ultra Characters being said to be "the best" without any explanation, nothing to show why they are so good, just categorically stated to be better.

>>44581647
Are you retarded? The Imperium is the Holy Roman Empire in space you fuckwit, not Nazis.

>>44584038
not really I mean fucking Calgar beat an avatar in a 1v1. people just like to complain about how many achievements the ultras have compared to other chapters

>>44584299
Did you forget that Tellion is stated to be the best marksman and stealth expert in the imperium, i'm sure ever vindicare and raven guard in the galaxy is thrilled about that.

>>44584350
my point was that the ultras arent just stated to be "the best" without explanation. you forgot to mention that telion has served for hundreds of years under 3 successsive chapter masters so the dude is pretty old

>>44581826
>they are the closest to the Codex

>Hammers of Dorn reporting in
What's that? Tyrannic War Veterans? I certainly don't remember THAT being mentioned in the Codex. See this is why the Ultramarines are unworthy of Guilliman and he and Dorn should have both been Primarch of the Imperial fists

>>44584580
Yes, he is old, but not as old as the Raven Guard chapter, so one would think they would be better at it, as it's their chapter theme.

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>jack of all trades, master of none

I recently started painting ultramarines and their colour scheme is very nice to look at and not very hard to paint.

For me I think their paint scheme is too busy. Especially with company colors on the pauldron trim and red officer helms. I think they look fine with just blue, white and gold.

>>44588552
Master of all. The Ultramarines are stated to be the best at every aspect of being an Astartes.

>>44589933

Which seems impossible, given that the other chapters actually have a specialty rather than "oh yes, I do things by the book."

No, "but the way the book says to do it is better" is not a fucking specialty.

Why does no one complain as much about the Grey Knights? I play them and enjoy their model look and lore, but they seem like much more of a sue chapter to me? Is there a reason?

>>44591381
Grey Knights aren't claimed to be the chapter all Space Marines aspire to be

>>44591399
I guess I just see smurfs as way to boring to even deserve my hate.

>>44591483
As you should. The 40k universe is too big for you to be consumed by hate for one particular sub-faction.

The UM may be utter fanwanked, mary-sue cockbreeds, but who gives a shit? You've got countless other chapters, warbands, covens, enclaves, dynasties, swarms, and whatever the fuck the tau call themselves, to choose from.

>>44581398
I just don't like them.

>>44581826
Thread; needs to be in more hurr durr threads.

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their primarch is a bitch

>>44592662
Because Warp Sorcery can beat a primarch who is trying to play fair

>>44592765
Russ wasn't a psyker and he was able to shrug off Magnus' warp fuckery. To be a Primarch and get fucked up by someone who isn't even an Space Marine is fucking pathetic

>>44581398
They are a marketing tool. If you're not sharp enough to discern why the Ultramarines are laughed at, then you will never listen to any explanations.

Stupid people dont listen, they already know everything.

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>>44592662
>warp powers stunned him
>still beat the shit out of Kor
>"le BTFO"

this is what chaos actually believes

>>44593267
He's still a primarch and was laid low but a non Astartes

>>44581398
>Are SM players so retarded they have to throw a tantrum because other chapter is said to be better?

Actually, yes.

>>44593375
what part of "stunned" do you not understand

>>44593836
the part where one of the 20 most powerful beings ever to walk the galaxy got REKT by a non astartes human

>>44596620
>muh heart
this is what chaos actually believes

>>44581398
Honestly, I'm fine with them but I really wish chapter representation was more even out. White Scars, Salamanders, Raven Guard, all of these guys are founding chapters but get less love than the Black Templars for the Emperor's sake.

>>44581398

It's perfectly fine to hate on the ultramarines for being "better". Because that is their only characteristic and they has been hyped to an insane degree.

Think of any trait out there, there is a good probability the Ultramarines have been described as being "the best" at it.

Mary-sues are boring characters, and especially annoying if they detract from a strongly established universe. 40k is a grim place, it is strange to have these 10000% amazing warriors running around.

>>44581826
>Ultramarine fan here. no they aren't.

This is what ultramarine defenders say, however in countrless of sources they are described as being "the best". Look even at 30k, people claim Roboute is "only good at tactics", yet he is still the strongest 1v1 fighter apart from horus.

Ultramarines have been described as the most noble, best shooters, most respected, best strategists. Apart from 12 year olds, most people find that to be a boring character trait.

>>44596620

But Guilliman beat the shit out of Kor Phaeron?

Do you think Chaos Horus owned the Emperor too?

They're all sucker punches, dude. Then the other guy turns around and literally obliterates them. Kor Phaeron is DEAD. Horus gets ERASED FROM EXISTENCE. Despite both having Chaos boons.

>>44581448

I started with Ultramarines, and now I have Minotaurs and Carcharodons.

I don't really care whether someone is a goody two shoes or an edgy brooding faglord, I picked the chapters because they were the most visually and aesthetically distinct.

>but Ultramarines are so plain!

They're the ones who have the most golden eagles and roman leather tassels. Whenever you see a plain marine that's blue, you go "Smurfs!" or when you see generic non-blue marines you go "Oh, some kind of non-Ultramarine variant or non-Ultra founding legion". When you see full Roman bling in blue, you see ULTRAMARINES. When you see golden Spartans with bull heads, you see MINOTAURS. When you see grey and black with broken armor, blood, and studs everywhere and a white faceplate, you see CARCHARODONS.

Red Scorpions were also one of my choice chapters because before Badab, they were the most distinct chapter as well until FW started releasing tons of unique looking chapters in IA9/10.

30k Ultras just make them even more unique. Even if being unique means being a gaudy walking statue of bling.

>>44581783

>20th century
Wat.

It's got Baroque, its got Gothic, its got Medieval, its got Post Apocalyptic and its got all the bad things from those periods, but the 20th century is one of the least used parts, aside from I guess saying some IG uniforms.

Star War's Empire draws far more from the Nazis than 40k does. If there's any "bad" thing the Imperium is supposed to evoke it would be the Papal Inquisition, or the more brutal aspects of Rome.

>>44597896
Guilliman lost in combat to Lorgar, Angron, Curze, and most importantly Fulgrim.
He did happen to slay Alpharius (maybe) though.

>>44598445
angron? yes
fulgrim? yes
Curze? sorta
Logar? angron had to save his ass from gulliman

>>44597896
can I get a source on this shit?

>>44599317
>he is still the strongest 1v1 fighter apart from horus
quit talking out your ass
angron, sang, and horus have all be described as the most badass in 1v1. At no point what so ever was the ultra's primarch even closely venerated as such.

>>44598334
Kor Phaeron is DEAD
>is this nigga serious?

>>44597896
>yet he is still the strongest 1v1 fighter apart from horus.
Tabletop wise yes, blue dude rapes every pussy and ass he finds.

No where is Gulliman described as being particularly good at fighting. Horus, Angron, Sangy, Russ and Jonson are described as the best fighters

>>44581398
Space marines on average have the youngest playerbase by a fair bit.

>>44599712
>Russ the Knocked Out King
>In the same league as these badmotherfuckers

>>44599741
He is though. He is also the only Primarch to never lose a round in sparring sessions.

>>44591381
>Why does no one complain as much about the Grey Knights? I play them and enjoy their model look and lore
Because you weren't posting on /tg/ when 5th edition came out.

Matt Ward became a banned word on /tg/ and all Grey Knight threads were deleted on sight.
That's how much hate they got.

>>44599741
When he got serious, he broke Magnus's back.

You know, Magnus. The most powerful psyker and sorcerer among the Primarchs who was empowered by Tzeentch.

>>44599753
And yet he always lost when it mattered.
Except Magnus kinda.

>>44599759
So I only read the novels and play the vidyas, never played the table top game. Is all the SW/Russ hate a 4chan thing like >>44599741 or is that universal among the tabletop players?

>>44599787
>Is all the SW/Russ hate a 4chan thing like >>44599741 or is that universal among the tabletop players?

Just two or three anons here. They daily start Russ threads to circlejerk their hate for Russ.

>>44599787
This is purely anecdotal but they seem to be either a love 'em or hate 'em type deal.

>>44581398
>because other chapter is said to be better?
thats exactly right because its shitty writing.

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>>44599805
I started posting those threads because I like Leman Russ and the amount of butt hurt he causes on /tg/

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Personally, I liked their old color scheme a lot better than their new one.

>>44599826
>Isn't Leman Russ the very best primarch?
>No, here's irrefutably why:.......
>FUCKING MAGNUSFAGS!!!!!
Everytime.

>>44599840
>old
>green lascannons
>green plasma
>brown bases
fake and gay

guns have metal accents, bases are green

>>44591381
because there meant to be the best at what they do there picked from all the other chapters best and as >>44599759 said when somebody wrote something retarded about them people hated them just as much.

>>44599860
>there picked from all the other chapters best

that's wrong though

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>>44599859
better?

>>44599826
Don't lie to me, anon.

>>44599915
I'm not, I am the russ spammer himself. At least one other person took up the cause later, but i don't know if he is a true Son of Fenris though.

>>44599880
your right i was thinking of the deathwatch.

>>44599826
>Leman Russ
>A furfag's wet dream

It's okay anon, you are not the only depraved person in this board. Admit that your taste is objectively bad. After all, identifying the problem is the first step towards fixing it.

>>44600000
good numbers

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>>44600000
nice get magnusfag

>>44600018
Daily reminder that you don't have to be a Magnusfag to correctly identify Russ as the worst loyalist primarch

>>44598334
Kor is still up and kicking dude...

>>44581398
Because Ward made them into the largest collection of Morality Sues in the entire Imperium. Which is saying something, because there's a LOT of morality sues in the Imperium.

>>44581398
The main issue is the poster boy status. Base ultramarine lore is fine, macrage is pretty cool, and their whole tactical redeployment I can get behind. These guys know tactics that's their thing. Know the playbook well enough and you can call audibles when needed... That works as a chapter trait. (It is also done pretty well in Deathwatch.)
The issue is all the other stories and characters which could be done better as other chapters. Telion would feel better as a raven guard character. They're always understaffed and because of that their tactics are guerilla warfare. So why the fuck is the several century old veteran sniper not hiding with ravenguard? They're not the poster boys. Why does everything have to happen to ultras? Poster boys. Calgar needs to be the marine that goes toe to toe with an avatar of khaine. Poster boy. Ultras have to be the first to rediscover tau (calgar) and necrons (Damocles incident? I think?) same reason. We could flesh out more chapters and do more things, but to sell models we want a generic poster boy who's great at everything.

I will note, the "wants to be ultramarines" thing isn't inherently bad. Ultramarines are successful. Pre-heresy Kharne said something along the lines of "look at the ultras with all their planets and gains while we have this broken primarch. If only Angron wasn't broken, we could be so much more." so that's not terrible. Keep in mind 40k fluff is about how macho and over the top these space marines can be.

>>44599780
Ahh but that was just as planned anon.

>>44598398
(Not the guy you were responding to.)

Eh. "Nazi Space Catholics" is usually how the Imperium gets summed up.
Nazi Elements:
>Hugo Boss outfits for the Commissars
>Obsession with racial purity
>Explicit goal of extermination of other races to make space for the Imperium
>Violent, war-glorifying authoritarian government.

None of this stuff is unique to the Nazis, but I think it's being a little obtuse to claim the Imperium has no intentional Nazi influence. They're supposed to be nasty authoritarians, and one of the most famous bunch of those guys in real life were the Nazis, so it figures that the Imperium would have some Nazi stuff.

>>44581448
The draw to Carahadors for me is the minimal fluff, but what is there allows you to mix and match various armor sets and "archaic" weapon designs. It gives your army some variety.

Not that I'm against matching ranks, but that's the norm for SM, and this let's you bring more of the customization you see with nyds or greenskins to the Murreens.

I swear I've read somewhere that the Raven Guard actually follow the Codex as intended by Guilliman more than the Ultramarines do.

Something about the intention of the Codex being a guideline on tactics and strategy, allowing for flexible use of the forces you have to get the job done, like the RG are often mentioned to do since they will pick and choose squads from different Companies to make up a better Strike Force than a standard Battle Company.

Meanwhile the Ultramarines treat it like strict instructions, and even a slight variation is wrong.

Can't remember where I read this though.