Warhammer Fantasy Role Play General thread, open for all discussion of the Warhammer setting and how it relates to the roleplaying games.
Let's keep it civil. Remember - when it comes to your own games, the right answer is whatever works best for you and your group.
>I don't have the books for 2nd Ed.
>How does career advancement actually work in 2nd edition?
>Maps of the old world?
>Good sites for extra resources?
>I don't know much about Warhammer, how can I get started?
Have a read of this:
>Beastman PC: How can we make it work?
>Critical Failures: The Bane of Blackpowder. Worth playing with or not?
>Crimes and Schemes: What have you gotten away with in WFRP?
size of the empire and the world in general, the old world seems a bit saturated of open spaces to set relatively big things in without influencing everything too much.
the theory that the warhammer world was actually many times larger than our earth would be a way, but reading the maps, it doesn't seem to be the case.
alternatively, to expand it in other directions: like a focus of the empire on making colonies around the world and exploring shit like the underworld, or even more unlikely things like the immaterial realm flooding the world in certain areas opening pathways to other lands that seem like part of the world despite their size and the things in them would make them impossible to fit in a map following conventional logic, without it being excessively chaotic or there would be little dynamic back and forth actions for the control of these lands, which would be their purpose, between the normal grimdark and corrupted world and the chaotic wastes, to give a measure.
I don't know if I managed to get across the idea.
also a more active approach from the races "of order" in moving invasions and attacks, dwarfs grudgsades, imperial eradication campaigns, lizardmen flying temples blitz near the broken veils of reality, stuff like that.
finally, something on the greater scheme of things going on for the ogres and their god, I don't know what though, suggestions?
>finally, something on the greater scheme of things going on for the ogres and their god, I don't know what though, suggestions?
Wasn't there a whole big thing with the relationship between Ogres and Giants?
There is a certain amount of conflict between the setting as presented in the books and gazetteers, and the more whimsical Warhammer World presented in some of the art.
I could make a case for either, really. I like the fact that there are detailed maps and trade routes and histories. It brings the setting to life. On the other hand, I love the weirdness of Ian Miller and John Blanche.
I guess I just compromise: The influence of the realm of chaos on the northern wastes turns it into a nigh-infinite hellscape capable of containing all your giant skull castles and floating rocks. The civilised lands are pretty much as portrayed, albeit with with a heavy dose of weird in the form of hats made from fish and gnarly trees.
That and a healthy disregard for the integrity of the setting after play begins. I mean, hey. The End Times has already happened. There's not much more you could do to fuck it up.
Giants are descendants of the Sky Titans which lived in the Mountains of Mourn and had a civilization before it was destroyed by the Ogres during their migration.
It's touched on here and there in Monstrous Arcanum. Shard Dragons apparently inhabit it and some of their prey includes white-bloated fungoid slugs that swim in lightless seas I also recall mention of there being troglodyte like humans who live in the depths and worship the monsters that inhabit it like gods. Basically it seems like at least some of which lives underneath the earth was driven there when the Old Ones moved the world closer to the sun.
>Basically it seems like at least some of which lives underneath the earth was driven there when the Old Ones moved the world closer to the sun.
Fuck, I never stopped to think about what life must have been like pre-Old One colonization.
Shit, a 'Journey to the Center of the Earth' WFRP campaign could have some real traction and playability.
>Giants are descendants of the Sky Titans which lived in the Mountains of Mourn and had a civilization before it was destroyed by the Ogres during their migration.
When did the Sky Titans come into it? I remember reading a bit about them ages back when Ogre Kingdoms first came out, but I don't recall for the life of me a lot about their civilization or what was going on with them. Were they one of the projects of the Old Ones?
Apparently I made a mistake, the Sky-titans didn't inhabit the Mountains of Mourn but instead the mountains west of them known as the Ancient Giant Lands.
>The Sky-titans were an ancient race, much taller (and far more intelligent) than the Giants of today. The sky-titans had hewn vast fortresses into the mountains themselves - blunt, megalithic citadels that overlooked shimmering seas of clouds, pierced by islands of rock on which stood other castles. Hermitic by nature, the Sky-titans had long ago forgotten about the other races of the world, for they were content in their reclusive realm, hidden from others by the sheer inaccessible nature of the peaks and their shrouding cover of cloud. The Sky-titans rarely descended below the treeline, save only to tend their herds of cave-beasts and enormous mammoths. It was these gargantuan beasts that the Ogres first encountered, and the ravenous Ogres at first thought they had reached some golden realm of plenty, a veritable promised land of red meat. They were utterly unprepared for herd animals as fierce and dangerous as these, however, and many Ogres found that, instead of a gluttonous feast, they were instead gored by mighty tusks, or stomped to death beneath thunderous hooves. The Ogres swiftly learned that the only way to pull down such creatures was to work together, separating a single beast from the pack - much as they had observed the giant wolves hunting the snowy slopes.
What would you like to discuss? I haven't played in a while, what's changed with the 8th and 9th editions?
>vast fortresses into the mountains themselves
Do any of those still exist in the 2500s of the Warhammer world?
>Noting the growing losses among their herds, the Sky-titans were soon made aware of this ugly new threat that had climbed the mountains to assail them. Although alarmed, the Sky-titans were far from helpless, and they unleashed lightning storms and avalanches, slaying many Ogres and driving others off the mountainside to fall to their doom. Thus began what the Ogres call the War in the Sky, pitting the last surviving Ogre tribes against the Sky-titans. Always the attackers, the Ogres surrounded and besieged each peak while the Sky-titans defended their castles with enormous cannons, their largest and most loyal herd beasts and, finally, their vast bodies - stomping upon Ogres or snatching them up and hurling them great distances so they plummeted through the clouds and fell many miles to their deaths.
>Although their population had been drastically reduced, the Ogres still outnumbered the Sky-titans by hundreds to one, and what's more, the Ogres attacked together in tribes whilst the Sky-titans lived alone in their fortress-like peaks, too solitary to ever unite under a single banner. The war was a bitter one, but with every victory, the Ogres grew stronger, as every battle provided an absolute glut of flesh. One by one the isolated mountaintop keeps fell and bloody feasts took place in their colossal halls. The more fortunate victims were already dead when the eating began, but no means were all so lucky.
>As the Ogres rampaged further into the mountain range, they noticed that not only did the mountains tower ever taller, but that the Sky-titans also grew larger and larger. The most ancient of that long-lived race grew to enormous sizes, yet over the great ages of their lives the Sky-titans become ever more sedentary, until finally becoming like the mountains themselves. Many Ogres believed that the final peaks they climbed in the Ancient Giant Lands were not mountains at all, but instead the eldest of the Sky-titans, now permanently enthroned in living stone. If this was so, they were the last of their kind, for the Ogres could find no more and they reckoned that they had devoured the entire race down to the last finger bone. There was rumor of the final few Sky-titans unfettering their mountaintops and sailing away on the clouds, but if this were true, none could say to where the refugees fled or if they ever arrived there safely.
>Not content with destroying their foes utterly, the Ogres slaughtered their herds of beasts and rampaged across the peaks, toppling castles into the valleys below. Today only a few shattered stone shells and a wide scattering of immense ruins on the valley floors give any evidence of the once-proud race of gentle giants and the amazing heights they had reached with their architectural marvels. for a while, the Ogres were content to stay put, sprawling out atop the shattered halls of the Sky-titans and dining on the dwindling and now shepherdless creatures. Yet there, on the very roof of the world, the Ogres began feeling the ill effects of living at such heights.
Goes on to say how the explosive debris from the creation of the Great Maw slowly turned the Ogres who remained into the first Yhetees.
Appears I may also have been wrong about Giants being the descendants of Sky-titans, though they do likely have a connection.
>Appears I may also have been wrong about Giants being the descendants of Sky-titans, though they do likely have a connection.
No, giants are descendants of the sky-titans. I have no idea how you can think otherwise.
>No, giants are descendants of the sky-titans. I have no idea how you can think otherwise.
Because the text on the Sky Titans suggests that they were all either eaten, turned into mountains or left for another planet?
I guess this is totally worth it on Dryads
(WS4 S5 T4 I5 A2 Core for 15pts? sure makes my dick hard)
is it worth it on Thicket Beasts (aka Tree Kin) though? 10pts per model seems a bit steep.
It says the text they fled. It didn't say they fled to another planet, you illiterate moron. The giants were always hinted to be descendants of the Sky Giants.
Heck, in the Orge army book a Sky-Giant is spotted by the Ogres in their lands and got butchered.
It isn't even hinted. It's outright stated
But we have mentally ill anons like this one (>>44558824), who takes in-verse legends and rumors as truth and then adds a dash of exaggeration.
>Many Ogres believed that the final peaks they climbed in the Ancient Giant Lands were not mountains at all, but instead the eldest of the Sky-titans, now permanently enthroned in living stone. If this was so, they were the last of their kind, for the Ogres could find no more and they reckoned that they had devoured the entire race down to the last finger bone. There was rumour of the final few Sky-titans unfettering their mountaintop and sailing away on the clouds, but if this were true, none could say to where the refugees fled or if they ever arrived there safely.
What he Ogres believed and what actually happened are different things.
Here is the page from the White Dwarf.
I cannot believe you people.
Oh look more fluff about GIANTS being the descendants of SKY-TITANS!
You two are literally cunts.
No one was arguing that the Giants weren't descendant from the Sky Titans, one anon. was just saying how there could be room for interpretation or plot-hooks for GMs and the other wasn't sure because the information he had left room for doubt.
You two are cancerous polyps that drive away creative discussion.
You two should be ashamed of yourselves.
The Warhammer threads are already thin on the ground. It's cunt-shites like you that drive away people who would otherwise be interested in discussions.
And you can fuck right off.
Age of Sigmar is by no means a good replacement for the Warhammer mythos, but you shouldn't just ignore it all together. Sift through it and find what inspiration you can draw from it.
I mean shit - do you argue that Storm of Chaos or standard WFB aren't allowed here? Because both tell a different version of the Warhammer lore to what we get in the 1ed WFRP campaign books.
>man, PLEASE, don't defend my idea
What are you talking about? Not the anon you're referring to, but I'm trying to follow the conversation and I can't figure out what idea you're talking about.
Ah! That makes sense.
I think it makes sense for WFRP, WFB, Mordheim, Warmaster and even Man-o-War to share a single thread - given how slow those have been going lately.
AoS could go either way. It's different enough from Warhammer and popular enough in it's own right to merit it's own threads. I mean, look at the AoS General now. It's doing better than the last three or four WFRP generals combined.
That said, bringing up AoS and the ideas it brings up shouldn't be discouraged in a Warhammer general.
Because I thought they were all killed and the Giant entry in the Ogre Kingdom's army book makes no mention of them being descendants, which I thought it did. However, looking at Tamurkhan there is section which does seem to lend credence to them being descendants. Also makes mention of the Sky-titans having cities.
>Legend had it that it had been the Giant's forebears - mightier in both strength and mind - that had built the now fallen cities and prospered here long ago when the world was young and fought with ancient empires now gone to dust, fading first into an isolated echo of their past glories before the Ogres came from the east and sundered their once unconquered realm forever.
They don't seem to get much attention because Orcs and Goblins hate them, any that exist in the Dark Lands are pretty much slaves of the Chaos Dwarfs, and the rest live somewhere to the east.
In Tamurkhan they only get three unit entries which for the most part are only slightly different from their Goblin counterparts. The real difference being they have their own version of Animosity, don't have Fear Elves, and two of the units have special rules unique to them.
FW probably only bothered with them because it's flavorful for Hobgoblins to be part of a Chaos Dwarf army and they were likely under no obligation to provide models for them. Indeed, none of units to my knowledge ever got models before Warhammer Forge was shut down, other Chaos Dwarfs units took precedence.
I proposed this idea after having a look at AoS general, in fact. it's alive mainly due to shitposting (much like majority of WHRP threads lately, to be honest). they'd love a more active thread too it seems.
after all, all these things are connected - some by fluff, some by models, some by spirit. makes sense to make one thread to rule them all.
>much like majority of WHRP threads
Much like Warhammer threads in general, which were only kept alive by the End Times and shitposting, the first usually leading into the latter.
He he was a cunt for saying my post was bait and you are making it worse by not not blaming the right party.
The bastard deserved to be chewed up for being such an idiot. The fucker took rumours by dimwitted Ogres as fact and ignored YEARS of fluff hinting and OUTRIGHT stating that the Giants were leftover retarded Skytitans.
You thought? I suggest you learn to read text time. Read understand what's in the next before throwing in your bias and forming your opinion.
>he was a cunt for saying my post was bait
Your post was literally:
>have no idea how you can think otherwise.
I think Anon. was just explaining to you HOW you could think otherwise based on the information presented in >>44558510
which, if you had not other information, is a perfectly reasonable interpretation.
You're being a dickhead by assuming everyone is familiar with the fluff when it seems pretty clear that the people you're talking to aren't.
> I suggest you learn to read text time
See, you're a cunt. Everything that you type just paints you as a bigger and bigger dickhead.
>which, if you had not other information, is a perfectly reasonable interpretation.
No, it's not. The anon was like you an idiot when he said "Appears I may also have been wrong about Giants being the descendants of Sky-titans" when the fluff gave no solid proof that the Sky-titans were actually dead other than some flimsy rumours of Orgres.
I overestimated the anons intelligence. I thought come on how can come to the conclusion that all Sky-titans were dead from that text? How did miss all the hints and lore about the giants in previous lore? I literally had no idea how he came to think that. So asked and he called my post bait. Then I realized that he was a idiot that deserves to be kicked in the balls.
It's not about just knowing the fluff is about reading the human being which he apparently wasn't able to do. You are supporting this idoicy and ignorance. Everything you type makes think you are equally as much an idiot as him.
> If this was so, they were the last of their kind, for the Ogres could find no more and they reckoned that they had devoured the entire race down to the last finger bone. There was rumor of the final few Sky-titans unfettering their mountaintops and sailing away on the clouds, but if this were true, none could say to where the refugees fled or if they ever arrived there safely.
If that was all the fluff you had, are you saying it would be stupid to assume that all the Sky-titans died off and nothing descended from them?
You are a cunt.
>Shit, a 'Journey to the Center of the Earth' WFRP campaign could have some real traction and playability.
Hey, can any AoS fans reading this remind me what they said was at the center of the Warhammer World?
YES, it would be stupid.
Because it translates to "THE OGRES THOUGHT THE SKY-TITANS WERE DEAD DUUR".
Why did you guys think what the Ogres thought was fact? Are you this retarded? It makes matters worse for you that a healthy Sky-titan was spotted several centuries after this massacre wandering Ogre territory in the same DAMN ARMY BOOK in the timeline section.
Just admit you and him are idiots and lets get on with our lives. Have some dignity!
>Because it translates to "THE OGRES THOUGHT THE SKY-TITANS WERE DEAD DUUR".
So? If it's the only evidence that you have, it's a reasonable conclusion.
"Welp, this is the only document we have detailing this race. It also says that the race all probably died out. Without looking at anything else, it's a reasonable assumption that they all died out."
That's fine. If you look at all the other material, than it's sensible to say that the Giants d/evolved from the Sky-Titans.
But just looking at that one piece of data, assuming that the Sky-Titans were all wiped is fine. Especially given the implication in the piece that the Ogres actively hunted the Sky-Titans down.
>Just admit you and him are idiots
See, you're a cunt. A 14 year old cunt.
Wasn't it a dragon or something?
>So? If it's the only evidence that you have, it's a reasonable conclusion.
No, it's not. It's not even evidence. It's just the Ogres thinking that they ate the whole race while other Ogres believed that they escaped. Nothing solid.
Also I like how you ignored the "It makes matters worse for you that a healthy Sky-titan was spotted several centuries after this massacre wandering Ogre territory in the same DAMN ARMY BOOK in the timeline section" part my post, you disingenuous idiot.
No, it's not a reasonable conclusion. Even in the same book it shows a surviving sky-titan and it bloody hints at the connection between giants and the titans.
So all in all, you and other anons are abject failures as human beings. Next time examine and analyse the text before opening your mouths. No need to spread misinformation,
that chunk of metal was the only thing that withstood the destruction of the world and Sigmar grabbed it and floated with it between worlds, until he came to realm of Azyr, met some sort of dragon god, made of a necklace of that metal for the dragon god, they became friends and fixed that chunk of metal in the center of Azyr, so it serves as sort of sun or something for that realm and Azyrheim is all around it.
something like that, never delved deep into AoS lore
ah, and that super-hard metal is called Sigmarite, because... well, because fuck GW, that's why.
The Chaos Gods got bored of unmaking the Old World and left the job uncomplete as they went to invade other worlds and universes. Archaon was surfing the shards of the Old World while having visions about his future conquests.
While all of them were distracted, the core of the world, aka Malus, shot into space. Sigmar was holding onto it.
Sigmar and Malus zig zagged across space until a space dragonbro found them and then took them to the Mortal Realms.
>No, it's not. It's not even evidence.
See, I think that's you're issue. You don't seem to understand we're working on the supposition that the data provided is the only information that the anons. had to work with.
Yes, in character it was what the Ogres were thinking. But in real life - you know, where you are supposed to be living right now - it's a piece of data about a fictional setting.
NOW - if that piece of data about a fictional race in a fictional setting was the only data you had, why would you immediately assume the data was false? What purpose does that serve?
Did you fail English Comprehension? Or are you still studying in High School?
If I told you "All Boojums are Snarks" - and that was ALL YOU KNEW ABOUT BOOJUMS AND SNARKS - why would you argue that NO, NOT ALL BOOJUMS ARE SNARKS AND YOU'RE AN IDIOT FOR THINKING SO?
Grow up, Anon. Learn some comprehension and critical thinking.
A Journey to the Center of the Earth, searching for a mythical metal that put even Gromril to shame?
Could make a good campaign.
>Grow up, Anon. Learn some comprehension and critical thinking.
That should be directed to you.
> But in real life - you know, where you are supposed to be living right now - it's a piece of data about a fictional setting.
No, it's not. It's not a piece of data. It's just a piece of thematic lore that's suppose to portray the perspective of the Ogres in that war.
The army book designer AND any knowledgeable anon or an anon who actually read the whole Ogre army book know that the Sky-titans survived.
My god in each post you continue to surprise me with new heights of stupidity
>It's just a piece of thematic lore that's suppose to portray the perspective of the Ogres in that war.
Yes, it's a piece of thematic lore. It's also information.
>The army book designer AND any knowledgeable anon or an anon who actually read the whole Ogre army book know that the Sky-titans survived.
Yes. Yes they do. No-one is arguing that. Why are you making the argument about whether or not the Sky-Titans d/evolved into Giants? That's not what's on trial here.
You said that, based only on
That it was stupid to agree with the conclusions that information provides.
As mentioned in
If you know the rest of the lore, you know what happens to the Sky-Titan.
But you're making a fallacious assumption that the anon who posted the original data knew any of the other information about Ogres and Sky-Titans.
And then you go on to argue that anyone who had only read those posts and not seen anything else would be an idiot to assume that the Sky-Titans were wiped out. Despite the fact that the only information that is available in this context is the information saying they were wiped out.
For an explanation you should be able to understand, see>>44560798
>If I told you "All Boojums are Snarks" - and that was ALL YOU KNEW ABOUT BOOJUMS AND SNARKS - why would you argue that NO, NOT ALL BOOJUMS ARE SNARKS AND YOU'RE AN IDIOT FOR THINKING SO?
You've started resorting to Strawman argument because you cannot defend your claim.
Huh. Who named it Malus? Sigmar?
Dracothion led him to Azyr and the other realms.
The chunk of sigamartie is used to make weapons and armor for the Stormcast.
There is nothing to say gromril and sigmarite aren't one in the same, yet.
>There is nothing to say gromril and sigmarite aren't one in the same, yet.
Good point, makes it very usable actually.
A group of Dwarf Engineers looking to hire some adventurers to provide muscle and talent for their project in exploring the Underworld, finding a safe place to set up a colony and then proceed to mine deep in search of the biggest vein of Gromril ever found.
Also - does the Warhammer Underworld have a proper name? Underworld is kinda meh, and Underdark has D&D associations.
Anyone got anything? Or even a good suggestion?
The more I lurk in WFRP Generals, the more it looks like they die if people aren't bitching about something. Hell, there's only - what, 13 people posting in this? And at least 30 of the posts have been two guys bitching?
People just don't talk about WFRP much these days. But then, it is slow going since Christmas/NYE.
>Yes, it's a piece of thematic lore. It's also information.
Information only about what the Orgres thought and nothing else.
>That's not what's on trial here.
What's on trial is your stupidity.
The rest of your post is garbage.
Drawing definitive conclusion from that piece of fluff that only shows the perspective orgres and presents two possibilities in the minds of orges is beyond stupid. Arguing against should be impossible for anyone who is reasonable or has a sense of dignity but I guess that's just not you.
>Information only about what the Orgres thought and nothing else.
Yes. And if you had nothing else to go on, why is that wrong to assume? Additionally,
>>they were the last of their kind, for the Ogres could find no more
They had reason to believe that they had wiped the Sky-Titans out.
>Drawing definitive conclusion
No one drew a definitive conclusion except for you.
>Appears I may also have been wrong
>Because the text on the suggests
These are not definitive statements.
What has happened here is simple.
1. Anon posts information about Sky-Titans.
2. Anon says he's not sure, based on the information posted, if Giants are descended from Sky-Titans or not.
3. You claimed you had no idea how anyone could think this.
4. Anon. explains how people could make that assumption based on the information shown.
5. You proceed to have a tantrum and call people idiots for correcting you on how someone could make a rational assumption based on limited information.
You're still a cunt.
>Yes. And if you had nothing else to go on, why is that wrong to assume? Additionally,
A) that anon copypasted the text from the army book and thought that there is all to it despite the army book saying more on the issue. He is moronic for not continuing reading the other two pages.
B) Because the text gives no definitive answers and doesn't have room for assumption
>They had reason to believe that they had wiped the Sky-Titans out.
Some of them. The rest made rumours that they escaped.
>No one drew a definitive conclusion except for you.
The other anon did.
>These are not definitive statements.
Here and here >>44558510
>>44558824 suggests that anon was firmly believed that his flawed reading of the text was the correct one. He actually believed what one group of Ogres thinking the titans were dead was factual and even went further his stupidity to say that the Sky-titans flew to another planet.
And you are still an idiot.
>Information only about what the Orgres thought and nothing else.
So if someone told you 'Oh dude, the store is out of apples', you would say anyone who believed him was an idiot and be unable to understand why anyone would?
We've had some decent ones in this latest string of WFRP, it's just that occasionally we get a pedant lose in here who wants everyone to know that he's the smartest guy ever, which is why he posts on 4chan for hours on end.
Nope, I addressed what the anon said in previous post and indeed the rest of the post was irrelevant garbage.
The argument that anon is advocating for misinformation and stupidity. I think it's proven beyond a doubt.
>A) that anon copypasted the text from the army book and thought that there is all to it despite the army book saying more on the issue. He is moronic for not continuing reading the other two pages.
1. Assumption. He could have been reading it from another source. You're correct that he could have gotten the answer by reading more material, but that's not the fucking point. We know he could have found this. We're not arguing it.
>B) Because the text gives no definitive answers and doesn't have room for assumption
If the text gives no definitive answer, then there is room for assumption. If there is no room for assumption, it must give definitive answers. How the hell do you have no definitive answers and no room for assumptions?
>Some of them. The rest made rumours that they escaped.
Now you're projecting information external from that provided.
>The other anon did.
Seriously? That's your argument?
>suggests that anon was firmly believed
"May have been wrong" and "suggests" are not "firmly believed to be the correct one".
Holy shit, are you genuinely autistic?
How, in your estimation, is someone saying "I may have been wrong" the same as "I was definitely wrong"?
>The argument that anon is advocating for misinformation and stupidity. I think it's proven beyond a doubt.
nah dude, your a shit
Can we please actually talk about Ogres in WFRP? I know there's rules floating around for Ogre PCs, but they seem really punishing. Are there statlines for Ogres, even as monsters? I want to throw a Maneater at the party.
>Group A : They ran outta apples
>Group B : There are some apples in the store warehouse
We have two groups saying two different thing. Two groups that don't even own the store. Since there is doubt about the whereabouts of the apples I will keep a sceptical mind.
>Are there statlines for Ogres, even as monsters
There were in the 1ed. Scary motherfuckers. They were pretty common in the Doomstones campaign.
>rules floating around for Ogre PCs, but they seem really punishing.
How so? Didn't they start with like 2 or 3 attacks or something?
>the whereabouts of the apples I will keep a sceptical mind.
Good for you.
But there's nothing wrong with assuming that the group that's saying there is no apples is right. Especially since the group saying there are apples in the warehouse are spreading rumours.
There is nothing wrong with withholding your opinion until you find out for yourself, but if someone told you "Oh hey, we're out of apples." and another guy said "I think we might still have some apples in the attic, but no-one can find them." - it's perfectly rational to believe the guy saying you have no apples.
>1. Assumption. He could have been reading it from another source. You're correct that he could have gotten the answer by reading more material, but that's not the fucking point. We know he could have found this. We're not arguing it.
It's not. It's word for word from the Ogre army book. It's not on the wikis. So he read one portion on the army book and developed a fault opinion and passed it off as actual fluff.
>How the hell do you have no definitive answers and no room for assumptions?
The text opens possibility of the sky-tians both being dead or alive but it's all in the reckoning of the Ogres. You're not suppose to think what Ogres think is factual. They wouldn't know for sure that the titans were alive or not.
>Now you're projecting information external from that provided.
" There was rumor of the final few Sky-titans unfettering their mountaintops and sailing away on the clouds, but if this were true, none could say to where the refugees fled or if they ever arrived there safely"
Nope, it's from the same text. The Ogres made rumours that the titans escaped. So some part of the Ogres believed it.
>Seriously? That's your argument?
If you are making weak arguments, then you give me nothing to work with.
>"May have been wrong" and "suggests" are not "firmly believed to be the correct one".
Except that he believed himself mistaken about the giants heritage and called anyone who questioned him over how he came to the conclusion as a baiter.
>How so? Didn't they start with like 2 or 3 attacks or something?
3, and 18+1d10 wounds in 'Imperial Ogres'. However,
Weapon Skill (WS) 20+2d10
Ballistic Skill (BS) 10+2d10
Strength (S) 30+2d10
Toughness (T) 30+2d10
Agility (Ag) 10+2d10
Intelligence (Int) 10+2d10
Will Power (WP) 20+2d10
Fellowship (Fel) 10+2d10
They literally made them just combat monsters, and not even particularly good ones at that. Shit WS and BS, shit AGI, and nothing of use outside of combat. Your Ogre PC is going to spend his time standing dumb in the background for most of the game while the rest of the party does all the thinking and talking, occasionally flailing away at a target until he slowly beats it into the ground.
There is everything wrong with it.
Both groups are spreading rumours with no possible way for them ascertain the truth. So you shouldn't take the words of any of them as legit fact.
>It's not. It's word for word from the Ogre army book. It's not on the wikis.
Five seconds from google. Obviously the source is the army book, but you don't need the army book to read it.
>They wouldn't know for sure that the titans were alive or not.
Exactly. So it's perfectly fair to assume they are dead OR alive specifically because - AS YOU FUCKING SAID - >The text opens possibility of the sky-tians both being dead or alive
The fact that you can even say that the text leaves the opportunity open for interpretation and then say you're stupid for thinking it's open for interpretation is astounding.
>Except that he believed himself mistaken
No, he said 'May have been wrong'.
>anyone who questioned him over how he came to the conclusion as a baiter.
No, I called you a baiter, not the original anon. Because it's easy to see how someone could come to the assumption that the Sky-Titans were wiped out based on the text provided.
You even said so yourself >The text opens possibility of the sky-tians both being dead or alive
And the fact you've kept defending your idiocy is proof that you were baiting.
I just don't give a shit and enjoy insulting retards like yourself.
That's actually pretty balanced. Especially with an extra +2 starting attacks and a whopping 18 +1d10 wounds. If anything, they're a little OP.
> Your Ogre PC is going to spend his time standing dumb in the background for most of the game while the rest of the party does all the thinking and talking,
>Thinking and Talking
Ogres are traditionally depicted as a bit thick headed. There is nothing stopping you playing your ogre however you want, but they are not traditionallly geniuses or the most talkative guys.
That being said, they've got the same Fellowship range as Dwarfs and are only 10 points less for starting intelligence.
They're pretty decent.
I don't think anyone is taking anything said above as fact. The guy who posted it said he might have been mistaken and wasn't sure, based on what he was reading. The other guy understood why that anon could be confused or unsure, based on what he was reading.
There's a difference between taking something for fact and just accepting what was said until proven otherwise. And there is nothing wrong with accepting something until further information is given. It's what all good science needs. The ability to accept that you might be wrong.
Just assuming everything is wrong and you're the only sane person for thinking so is silly.
>Five seconds from google. Obviously the source is the army book, but you don't need the army book to read it.
My mistake on that, then. So if he picked up from a wiki he should and was wondering about the origin of the giants he should have searched this
This makes him even a bigger moron because it's easier than reading through the army book.
>Exactly. So it's perfectly fair to assume they are dead OR alive specifically because - AS YOU FUCKING SAID - >The text opens possibility of the sky-tians both being dead or alive
Putting all your bets on them being dead over flimsy evidence like this is stupidity itself. There is no solid evidence in those text. You are drawing an assumption FROM an assumption of an Ogre.
An assumption that can be proven wrong if the anon just kept reading the army book or just googled warhammer giant.
Laziness and stupidity all in one!
>No, I called you a baiter, not the original anon. Because it's easy to see how someone could come to the assumption that the Sky-Titans were wiped out based on the text provided.
So you're the moron. No wonder your all fussy. It's all your fault.
>No wonder your all fussy. It's all your fault.
No, you literally could not understand how someone reading that text could interpret it to mean that the Sky-Titans were dead.
You are an idiot.
You couldn't understand how a text which has the line:
>the Ogres could find no more and they reckoned that they had devoured the entire race down to the last finger bone
Would make you believe that the Sky-Titans were all devoured, down to the last finger bone.
You are truly an idiot.
You make it worse for yourself when you say:
>The text opens possibility of the sky-tians both being dead or alive
Which shows you acknowledge that the text does give the idea that the Sky-Titans are dead.
In fact, I enjoy arguing with you.
You know why?
It means I get to keep your autistic trolling ass out of the Warhammer/AoS General because I know you're too obsessive to not respond to this.
Ogres are violent, hungry, and crude, but they're not retards. And what I like about Fellowship is that it doesn't represent your charisma, but your ability to get people to do things. At least they have Intimidate as a racial skill.
Honestly, I'd prefer it if they cut back on the stupid amount of attacks (why do ogres get 3, when even speedy elves only get 1? Because the core races only get 1 for balance) and wounds and give a bonus to Strength/Toughness and Willpower. If they are going to be a tanky fightan man class, go all the way with the hard-headedness, instead of leaving them about as tough as dwarves. Otherwise I'd put up the Intelligence a bit, to human levels.
Also, no Shallya's Mercy for Ogres; the rule is,
>a player generating an Ogre's Characteristics may reroll any 1s rolled for Strength, Toughness or Willpower, taking the higher of the two rolls. But if he does, he must reroll all 10s rolled for Fellowship or Intelligence, and take the lower of the two rolls.
Threw some ogres at my party a while back. There are stats for ogres in the old world bestiary, and i simply slapped the monster carrers on them,
Some homebrew weaponstats:
special: grants a free parry and +2 armour on the arm on which it is worn,
Type: ogre, blackpowder.
Reload: 3 full turns.
# of shots when fired: 1d6.
Special: Impact, shrapnel.
And ogre pistols are firearms used in one hand by ogres.
>why do ogres get 3, when even speedy elves only get 1?
I think the logic is the impact/arc of the attacks, rather than the speed. Like, giant arms hitting more targets sort of idea. Personally I think it would have worked better if Ogres just got 'Impact' on all their attacks instead.
>, but your ability to get people to do things. At least they have Intimidate as a racial skill.
True, but that's a fix in itself. Although their Fellowship is low from the start, you should be able to get circumstance bonuses on intimidate.
>Also, no Shallya's Mercy for Ogres;
Is that a replacement for Shallya's Mercy or an additional option they can take?
>Otherwise I'd put up the Intelligence a bit, to human levels
Nah. Ogres are usually a bit dim, like Orc levels. The ones that survive tend to get smarter.
>No, you literally could not understand how someone reading that text could interpret it to mean that the Sky-Titans were dead.
Interpreting by the assumption of one group of Ogres? I see it as stupid.
Both groups of Ogres present two different opinions. If we go by that text alone (and you shouldn't) it renders the fate of the Titans as unknown to any reasonable anon.
The rest of your post doesn't seem to be structured to make sense.
>It means I get to keep your autistic trolling ass out of the Warhammer/AoS General because I know you're too obsessive to not respond to this.
I am both threads, though.
And I see through your ruse. You will not get the final word.
>Is that a replacement for Shallya's Mercy or an additional option they can take?
Replacement: It's called the Great Maw's Hunger.
>impact on all attacks
I figured a good STR would give you the damage bonus, while also allowing you to use your might outside of combat. Impact on everything puts Ogres in Best Hand Axe cheese level, and it discourages them from swinging big weapons around in favour of sword and board (I don't remember, could Ogres have shields in WFB?).
>Both groups of Ogres present two different opinions. If we go by that text alone (and you shouldn't) it renders the fate of the Titans as unknown to any reasonable anon.
That's the point.
That is why the Anon. said "I might be wrong".
Because the goddamn text made it obscure.
Either you understand that you were wrong, or you've just got nothing better to do than bait post.
That being said, how do you think the Sky-Titans managed to breed enough to devolve into Giants whilst not being found by the Ogres?
>discourages them from swinging big weapons around in favour of sword and board
Ogres would have to swing big weapons anyway, just based on the scale they're working at. A normal sword would act like dagger to those fat fucks. Probably result in a negative modifier to combat.
>I figured a good STR would give you the damage bonus
Strength isn't the same as hitting hard though. I mean, imagine the difference between a car crash and gunshot. The strength of the impact isn't just the speed of the hit, but the mass behind the blow as well.
Think of just a fat guy. Big fat guy. They might only be as strong as you, but if they throw all that weight behind a punch they'll hit like a fucking truck.
So they could do a lot of damage, but if they tried to pick up a heavy box all that weight wouldn't help.
All this said, being good at combat from the start doesn't mean your character can't go on to become an explorer or anything.
But Ogres aren't big fat guys; or they are, but like Andre the Giant, where the layer of fat covers a thicker layer of muscle. There's fluff stories of Ogres pulling horses in half and opening knights like tin cans. Impact is the approximate statistical same as +2 SB.
>replacement for Shallya's Mercy
>It's called the Great Maw's Hunger.
I always liked that the gods immediately have an impact from character creation. Means religion is at the forefront of people's minds as soon as the game starts.
Has anyone ever created priests that their players loved to interact with?
I'm looking for ideas to fill up my churches and temples with memorable characters, and have the various faiths take frequent centre-stage.
>Impact is the approximate statistical same as +2 SB.
Strength is the guarantee of a minimum amount of damage, Impact is an increase in the propensity for doing more damage per hit.
All this being said - Ogres would actually probably benefit more from something like the Unnatural Attribute talent, where you increase your bonus but not the stat itself.
The old ogres in 1ed only had S4, T5 and W17 (which would been more than double the starting wounds of a human character in a combat system that used d6)
I'd say the fan made Ogre rules are pretty decent.
>If we go by that text alone it renders the fate of the Titans as unknown to any reasonable anon.
>No, giants are descendants of the sky-titans. I have no idea how you can think otherwise.
>>If we go by that text alone it renders the fate of the Titans as unknown to any reasonable anon.
>>No, giants are descendants of the sky-titans. I have no idea how you can think otherwise.
>unknown to any reasonable anon.
>giants are descendants of the sky-titans. I have no idea how you can think otherwise.
Did you just call yourself an idiot?
>That being said, how do you think the Sky-Titans managed to breed enough to devolve into Giants whilst not being found by the Ogres?
>troll stops posting when invited to contribute meaningfully.
I reckon they must have fled. They would have needed to stay close enough together to breed, but far enough away from the Ogres to avoid extermination.
Didn't the Tomb Kings have undead giants as a choice? Maybe they hot-footed their way down there?
I asked this on another thread and got no replies, so hopefully you could shed some light: if Azyr is the Wind of creativity, thought and emotion, than how is it that the Heavens spell-list (including Realms of Sorcery) is the only one which doesn't include mind-affecting spells?
Inconsistency between design and execution, maybe?
Or you could argue that, since it's the wind of thought then maybe the notion of enforcing thought and emotion with it is actually it's antithesis?
But no, I'd lean towards a stuff up somewhere.
Nope, I assumed that the anon either read the next pages in the army book.
Another example of anons not reading the fluff. The bone giants are constructs, not actual beings.
Then you jumped needlessly and called bait. Next time don't butt in things that don't concern you.
>That being said, how do you think the Sky-Titans managed to breed enough to devolve into Giants whilst not being found by the Ogres?
The Orges wasted time turning the sky titans castles into feasting halls. This would give the sky titans survivors enough time to escape.
It's a pointless question, anyways. They survived and how they did it is not important.
Kind of meta, but the Azyr grimoire is arguably already the most versatile of them all. Adding mind-affecting spells to it would make so you wouldn't need any other wizards in your party.
>It's a pointless question, anyways. They survived and how they did it is not important.
Except this is a WFRP general, were we talk and discuss different aspects of the setting.
So, you know - it's a perfectly pointed question asked in the right space.
>Then you jumped needlessly and called bait. Next time don't butt in things that don't concern you.
I think he called your post bait because you were bait posting. Which you appear to be continuing by saying shit like:
>Another example of anons not reading the fluff. The bone giants are constructs, not actual beings.
Not everyone has read every piece of fluff. Anon asked an earnest question, and you responded condescendingly. Thanks for answering, but this place is about being open and asking questions. Not for mocking people or acting better than them.
>Nope, I assumed that the anon either read the next pages in the army book.
Fair enough. You did act like an idiot then.
>Except this is a WFRP general, were we talk and discuss different aspects of the setting.
Unless you want to set a campaign in pre-history of the setting. Specifically about the great inbred Sky Titan exodus, then it's a pointless question to ask. The RPGs happen in "modern" period of the setting where the Sky-titans no longer exist.
>Not everyone has read every piece of fluff. Anon asked an earnest question, and you responded condescendingly. Thanks for answering, but this place is about being open and asking questions. Not for mocking people or acting better than them.
Silly questions deserve silly answers.
Bone Giants are a TT unit with its own description and its fluff is among the basic stuff in the setting. It's one of the famous Tomb King constructs. If you guys cannot bother with the basics, you are hopeless.
>Fair enough. You did act like an idiot then.
I am i am justified in what I did. The anon that called bait was an idiot and did not get the meaning of my post.
Do you want me here to increase your post count? I noticed that you guys didn't actually do much while I was gone.
Next topic of the thread.
What is the colour of Orcs? Are the Dwarfs short? Are the Dark Elves tanned Elves?
I am returning to play some Mordhiem but before I go I got do my job to educate you
>The Bone Giant is a towering edifice of bone and armour. Despite its outward appearance the Bone Giant is not the skeleton of one creature, but the combination of many hundreds of smaller creatures to make one large and intimidating monster. Armed with two gigantic blades, the Bone Giant can launch into an unstoppable assault within seconds of reaching combat, it's spirit hell-bent on total destruction and wanton violence.
Question for the group:
Karl Franz - is he better as a warrior king, a statesman and diplomat, or as a weakling front for a power behind the throne?
Which would be a better fix - changing what the Azyr wind was the air of or adding mind-magic to the Heavens list?
>Unless you want to set a campaign in pre-history of the setting.
And people might. That's why we allow all discussion of Warhammer here. It's also why we promote discussing peoples futures of their Warhammer settings.
You need to get ogre yourself, Autist-chan.
>What is the colour of Orcs?
Green, but why would you a-
>Are the Dwarfs short?
Ah, you're taking the piss are yo-
>Are the Dark Elves tanned Elves?
Shit, actually that's a good question. Or at least the crux of an interesting question.
Assuming that the Warhammer World follows a similar relationship to it's nearest star as the Earth does...would people who live closer to the equator have a darker skin tone?
That said, would Dark Elves actually be paler than High Elves?
>And I suppose Dwarfs would also be pretty pale as well, especially if they spend the bulk of their time underground.
I... think they get a pass on ruddy coplexions because of all the time spent around forges and drinking beer.
>How do Orcs/Goblins skin tone react to the sun?
... Thaaat is a good question.
>time spent around forges and drinking beer.
>Dwarfs maintain their good health by drinking a shitload of liquid gold. This may be booze, it may also be liquid gold.
Black Orcs would imply that darker skin tone equates to strength. So...maybe the weaker ones have lighter skin, and as they strengthen their skins get darker or more prominently green?
>Group descends to fight chaos cultist
>Witch uses shapeshifting spell to make herself a monster
>Kick in door as a Herald of Khorne spawns
>Witch hits it once
That was the most anticlimatic scene I've ever seen.
I don't think Fantasy goes to the same depths on greenskins as in 40k, but there's one clear difference it's the existence of hobgoblins, and the fact that once the great betrayal happened they stopped appearing in traditional greenskin communities.
There's probably some factor that allows greenskin subraces to exist independantly, like goblin and hobgoblin tribes.
The Enemy Within mentions an imperial semaphore system. Are there any later details of that?
There's scope for some good adventures with a semaphore system as evinced by The Clacks in Discworld. And it fits the setting nicely.
If there aren't any other details, I'm thinking of having a line run from Marienburg to Altdorf (Fast information exchange is a great boon to trading, after all) and then on to Nuln. Maybe with a half-finished line up to Middenheim, hampered by attacks from Drakwald Forest.
Honestly both Fantasy and 40k have some kinda poor worldbuilding. Well, I mean, their worldbuilding is pretty good for its intended purpose. But that's the thing I think a lot of people forget; both Fantasy and 40k are intended to be nonserious, even satirical, and I really can't understand people who take them seriously or have serious discussions on the lore. Like are people seriously gonna have in-depth discussions about Curious Geezer and Tiq'tak'to or whatever and the "Hobgobla-khan" and Cockney football hooligan orcs and whacky ninja rats?
>Lone dispatch riders might travel quickly, but they are easy prey for bandits or highwaymen, and so Emperor Karl-Franz has recently decided to establish a network of complex signalling machines. These are currently being built on convenient hilltops in lines radiating outwards from Altdorf, and it is intended that, in time, they will eventually connect the furthest corners of The Empire to the capital.
>Designed and crewed by members of the Dwarven Engineers' Guild at the appointment of the Emperor, the machines consist of a massive stone tower surmounted by a wooden pylon. On top of the pylon stands a small hut used by the crew, which contains the operating mechanism for the semaphore device and a telescope for the observer. The semaphore device itself consists of two huge wooden 'flags' which are moved by a complex system of chains, gears and pulleys. At night, a beacon is lit in the lower stone section of the tower, and messages are sent by opening and closing a great pair of iron shutters on one side of the beacon room. The machines are built just far enough apart for the messages to be readable by another machine operator using a telescope.
>That said, bringing up AoS and the ideas it brings up shouldn't be discouraged in a Warhammer general.
Yes it should. Because it's trash.
There's a reason "the last three or four WHFRP generals" have been doing shit.
Not entirely sure, the Orc Shaman entry in their 8th Edition army book does make mention of Waagh! energy though and that thy us that in combination with the winds of magic to cast spells.
Pic related was released along the end of 8th edition, but despite the different style it seems a bit related.
Oooh. Yeah, that could work.
Turns out Death on the Reik includes a semaphore tower complete with map.
Do you ever wonder if citizens of the Empire look at all the skulls they use in their decoration and wonder 'Are we the bad guys?' before being devoured by damn near anything else in the setting.
Mitchell and Webb references aside: It's just a cultural motif. It's not that weird. You might just as well ask why churches are plastered with images of torture/execution devices.
Honestly, a lotta' that probably goes into fuelling chaos cults.
People assume the empire isn't a force for good, so they get to thinking the alternative must be better.
Just a shame it's not.
Warhammer: Where you life is spent stuck in alternating flavours of shit.
From my own perspective, that's creepy as shit. And the church in Prague made of bones is just fucking nightmarish, let alone the tourist attraction that is the French Catacombs.
However I respect that my opinion is born of my upbringing and society, and how I have been relatively sheltered from the realities of death in my life.
I suppose that in a setting where death is so fickle and near, embracing symbols and iconography that represents that mortality is a natural evolution.
Ok, I guess when I say 'not that weird', I mean 'not that unusual'. Because it is fucking weird. It's supposed to be.
I certainly see the argument that a lot of the recent GW designs are over the top. But then I look at stuff people do in reality and just have to shrug.
It's better than 40k, that's for sure.
A lot of medieval art was what we would consider gory or grotesque (I mean, churches are literally covered with depictions of the eternal torture of people, not to mention the carved demons everywhere specifically designed to scare people), but WHF keeps the amount of skulls used to a reasonable amount. You don't see everyone having a skull-based economy like the Imperium, just a few macabre accessories on religious zealots and the odd figurehead or semaphore arm.
I haven't, I did see someone's homebrew for price changes that I rather fancied.
If I could find where I save it.
Just look at the example income, the nobility would hardly be able to afford anything expected of their rank, Maybe the Greater Noble (if that's landed nobility) I mean even the nobles are poor.
>Ooh a skull!
>Aww, I wanted a chocolate bar.
>A skull can by many chocolate bars.
>Skulls can be exchanged for goods and services.
>SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE
Khorne views himself as a super-pimp just rolling in mad cash, with his number one ho' Valkia turning tricks.
Check out this one:
Might be what you're looking for.
I often wonder how much of the income shown actually represents what they are earning.
Does it take into consideration what they could make working their land? That they might not need to pay for food because they grow/farm there own? What about inheritance? Is that taken into account? Would a Noble not already have all those trappings, and then be living off of the interest?
>Just look at the example income, the nobility would hardly be able to afford anything expected of their rank, Maybe the Greater Noble (if that's landed nobility)
I'm not sure I agree with that assessment. Even for the nobility, the commission of a well-made suit of plate mail or the purchase of a thoroughbred warhorse should be a sizable expense.
The coffers of the nobility are not bottomless, after all - but even still I would tend to assume that this is a chart of _disposable_ incomes, what a person of that standing would be free to spend on whatever they like in addition to the (appropriat to their rank) maintenance of their household, food, clothes and so on.
Either that, or "Lesser noble" represents the stipend granted to unlanded knights by their liege, and the 1000+ of greater noble is truly the lower bound.
I'll look into it thanks! I think I found this also on a old thread, I'll look into both.
And I'm reading a physical copy of the armory at the moment, it just mention that it's after taxes not exactly where the income is coming from.
I'm half assuming that the lesser nobility is unlanded, courtiers etc.
The Greater Nobility must be landed otherwise they have no ability to have or upkeep their own personal soldierly, or afford servants and other hirelings for their fiefdoms or manors etc.
What is the weirdest thing Chaos has done?
>Alright, how's this guys?
>Seriously, check this out.
>I'll make them all MEAT EATERS.
>Guys, no seriously, check this out
>Guys, I'll give them the heads
>The heads, guys
>Where the fuck is the Ebola file?
>It's in the cabinet.
>I've got all of the Es out and I'm not seeing Ebola.
>No shit dude, it's filled under H for Holy Fuck.
>I fucking hate you guys
>The cabinets are infested with Nurglings. Vomitting and shitting on everything.
The old Haemonculous models seem to fit the theme damn near perfectly.
Anyone working on any campaigns or character ideas at the moment for WFRP?
ADDITIONAL: If you play WFRP and WFB, do your characters cross over? Do you have a character in your army that represents on of your WFRP characters, or vice versa?
My dwarf slayer I played for nearly a decade became a lord character in my army. Eventually the whole army got constructed around the character and shit that happened in game in regards to him.
Question for the group:
What NPCs have you wanted to throw at your group, but haven't had the opportunity to do so? Or for players - what characters have you wanted to play but never got the chance?
>What NPCs have you wanted to throw at your group
I've been wanting to throw a reoccuring Daemon villain at my group for a while now. Just can't get them to settle in for a single long running campaign.
Found some more stuff under the Savage Orc unit entry.
>It is the Savage Orc Shamans who bestow the tribal markings such as warpaint or tattoos upon the assembled warriors. The Savage Orcs believe so strongly that these signs of Gork and Mork's favor offer protections that sword blows and arrows really can be deflected by the Orcs' self-generated aura of faith. This is a wondrous thing and confirms the Savage Orcs' belief in their old ways.
Anyone ever started as a Norse Berserker? It's a Core Career, but it specifically notes that you're from Norsca if you take it (obviously), and if you're from Norsca, you start with Speak Language (Norse) instead of Speak Language (Reikspiel).
You then get Speak Language (Norse) as part of your Advancement Scheme.
How do you handle a character that cannot speak Reikspiel from the beginning?
>Fuck, they basically are Orks.
Well, they are orcs; the only real differences are the genetic memory for more technological shit and that the goblinoid strand is almost completely exterminated there.
Punches are the universal language.
I mean, all human characters start with Speak Language: (Reikspiel).
However, purely hypothetically, If I were to GM a game where somebody chose a character that couldn't speak the same language as the rest of the group, I would probably rule that they understood enough to comprehend basic concepts, but couldn't communicate anything themselves outside of pointing, grunting and/or drawing crude pictures.
>ratcatcher in the confines near tilea (or hired to work in a small city in the new world) happens to fight for his life as skaven invade, after a series of misadventures and comically fortuitous errors, he ends breaking the backbone of the small raiding force, founding in the arms of a dead skaven mage a golden plaque.
>the lizardmen, who had predicted the arrival of the skaven and the presence of the plaque, do not find the skaven but a mere man bearing the sacred plaque standing over a mountain of skaven corpses.
>the skink priest rapidly takes the plaque from the hands of the still confused ratcatcher and recognizes in it the image of an unexpected godly messenger.
>the ratcacther is escorted by the lizardmen to their temples, offering him loads of gold and a small ruined temple to reside enacting the prophecy of a slann as interpreted by the skink priest.
>the ratcatcher is often transported on the top of a stegadon as the army of the slann marches, unkowing that, despite the gold who are just an excuse to keep the man around, the lizardmen are in fact valuing what he carried to them: a sacred plaque and its prophesied manifestation of the old ones, the small but vicious god.
counts as skink priest with a dispel scroll, or a chief with BSB and skaven pelt banner
Saving from the last page with the career advancement pic!
And a PDF of a bit more errata.
Damn it, FFG, the real designers littered the internet with the stuff, you couldn't bother to include any of it in the PDFs?
Bump from the brink: Can Halflings become zombies/skellingtons? What about spells that effect corpses? How long does Resistance to Chaos apply?
I suppose Halflings can become zombies/snoopy spooky skellingtons, but think of it from a Necromancer stance - why would you bother?
Humans are more common, and are a bigger weapon when necromanced. Going to that effort for Halflings would be like going to the effort for Children. There are just more effective corpses out there.
Because Resistance to Chaos prohibits any type of Chaos mutation, and being a spellcaster of any type.
Reading between the lines about what it does, the Winds of Magic just don't work the same way on Halflings, and it's impossible for magic to get bone-deep in them. So I'm wondering if that same resistance applies to their corpses/bones, preventing them from being filled with Dark Magic and propelled into undeath (not to mention the question of the spirit being captured).
Well, the Moot is right beside Sylvania, and I doubt most necromancers are that picky when raising the dead in droves. You'd imagine that a few Halfling corpses would be swept up in the spell area. To say nothing of Necrarchs experimenting with corpses for the knowledge of why that would happen.
>and it's impossible for magic to get bone-deep in them
Hmm..I can see the logic, but I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion. They are resistant to magic and other chaos effects, but not immune to them. They can't mutate, which is great, but similarly they can't become spellcasters. I suppose you could argue that what's happening is there is some sort of floodgate between Halflings and the raw fullness of the Realms of Chaos - they can't tap into it to reach the winds of magic, but they're shielded from mutation.
The fact that they aren't immune to magic would imply that there is a difference between the raw forces of Chaos and the Winds of magic.
Either way though, the Re-Animate spell doesn't allow a Willpower roll to resist. Because you're dead.
Halfling Zombies are go.
>Necrarchs experimenting with corpses for the knowledge of why that would happen.
>Hours of surgery
>Hounding down just the right shades of skin. The right individual hairs for the perfect colouration.
>You mastered the art of sewing just to perfect your halfling experiment.
>'Now say it! Say it you halfling runt!'
>'ISSA ME, MARIO'
But Dhar isn't a Wind of Magic; it's magic that's gone sour, either from combining multiple Winds deliberately or when magic stagnates in an area.
I don't know enough lore about Necromancy, but don't they fill the bodies with Dhar, bind that Dhar to their will, and that's what makes the Undead (and naturally occuring undead are bodies that are lying around in pools of Dhar)? While people can force the winds to interact with a Halfling physically, I'm wondering if it's possible to turn them into a magical creature, made of nothing but Dhar and bones, when magic seems unable to penetrate and fill them fully- you can blast a Halfling with a lightning bolt and electricity will fry him, but the pseudo-radiation of Warpstone doesn't work because he's not affected that way by magic.
>he's not affected that way by magic.
True, but they can still be possessed by daemons. They have a resistance to it, but they can't close the door entirely.
>But Dhar isn't a Wind of Magic; it's magic that's gone sour, either from combining multiple Winds deliberately or when magic stagnates in an area.
How much of the resistance afforded to Halflings is biology and how much is a matter of Willpower?
The Daemon thing is an excellent point (though I can't remember a time in fluff that a halfling got possessed).
Maybe it's about active minds shaping the magic? Someone with enough willpower can force their magic to effect a halfling, but background strangeness glides off?
> (though I can't remember a time in fluff that a halfling got possessed
Me neither, but there is nothing in the rules to suggest it's impossible. So it's a tenuous hold.
>Maybe it's about active minds shaping the magic? Someone with enough willpower can force their magic to effect a halfling, but background strangeness glides off?
That feels true. Has the right sort of ring to it.
This is a general thread. It's not a development blog, it's not a quest. Why does a thread made of non sequential discussions have a sequence?
I follow - it's so people can find discussions and projects from different threads. Like the work on fixing the economy, the discussions about the nature of Chaos and the Gods or different campaign and character work.
>But the numbering still doesn't help with that.
It helps me keep an idea as to how often these generals come up with something worthwhile.
The guy who started the generals started the numbering system, so I've kept the habit. It also helps for people to tell at a glance if the thread is the same one they were in last time. Given that the images are the same and the OP text is generally identical.
WFRP generals have become the lords of Skub.
Which honestly makes a lot of sense. The system is old, discontinued, and has some pretty serious edition dissonance. Not to mention that there is very little in the way of new material for the setting - more so now that the Warhammer World has effectively been discontinued by Games Workshop.
>The system is old, discontinued, and has some pretty serious edition dissonance
What are you talking about? 1st and 2nd go together perfectly, and anything else with the WFRP name is a garbage box set of bullshit, so there's no conflict.
>Dwarves travelling part of the ancient underground road to get to another hold, possibly a fallen hold where they plan to reclaim some relics
>Led by a scholar and a diplomat, the party goes to find the court of the fabled Mouse-King, the pleasant ruler of the peaceful and prosperous Mouse Kingdom
>The party is in some caverns doing stuff when the floor collapses; now they have to find their way back to the sun
>anything else with the WFRP name is a garbage box set of bullshit, so there's no conflict.
My point exactly.
>1st and 2nd go together perfectly
They do, but I was around when it first came out. There was a shitload of skub war until people settled.
>Engineers looking for a new Gromril vein accidentally delve too deep and need someone to go down there and check out what the fuck they've found.
>After being kidnapped by skaven and spending time as on of their slaves, a small group escapes and accidentally goes deeper on the run from ratmen.
>People stumble upon the route taken by the Dark Elves to avoid the High Elf navy but take a wrong turn somewhere in the dark.
>Dwarf in search of the legendary 'First Hold' of the Dwarfs, the roots of which are said to go to the very heart of the world.
>A colony style game, setting up a mining base and slowly progressing deeper and deeper to make a supply line into the Dark Beneath the World.
This "Dark Beneath" stuff has got me thinking.
Isn't Warhammer already dark enough without adding cthonian entities living deep underground, waiting for the day the stars are right and they can awaken from their dreaming death to rend reality once more?
Hey, new to WHFRP, just starting to dive into the system, as far as the lore seems to go I know magick is super dangerous and not like heavily supported, but is there a book/resource where I can find more spells, or like a spell compendium of sorts?
>Isn't Warhammer already dark enough
Depends on the flavour of game you like to play. I mean, by no means do you need to have this included, but if it's what you like to play - why not?
I mean, there was shit on the Warhammer World before the Great Old Ones rocked up. Drachenfels may or may not have been on of them, for instance.
What's the most obscure campaigns you guys have been in?
I've played a WFRP game where we were all playing one of the major gods of the setting, working together to send messages and visions to our followers while we fought against the gods of Chaos in the great game.
From what little I've read and is probably out there I never got the impression that what possibly lurks under the Warhammer world are anything but monsters, primordial beasts. I mean it's possible they have intelligence like dragons, but they're certainly not godlike beings.
>cthonian entities living deep underground, waiting for the day the stars are right and they can awaken from their dreaming death to rend reality once more?
Well we already have Chaos and they are actually awake
There's no real need for these eldritch horrors to be end game types awaiting to rend reality and stuff, at least in their current state as they would be introduced as things for the dark beneath rather than a possible player on the whole world; I for one would like the idea of them being just very, very, very powerful beings that where driven and sealed deep down the earth when the old ones reached and reshaped the planet.
They are confined and harmless to the surface world, but dare to walk where they sleep and attract their attention and you are fucked.
Of course you could also have cultists for these types of things who would believe to be able and actually try to free them, but having these deep ones actually awaken and bring ruin to the world would defy the point of their introduction, their place is deep down, the role as end gamers is in the hands of the dark gods.
Gromril, because I don't know what the hell Saronite is. It's been years since I played Warcraft, the only memory I have of it is when that bitch kid went full lich and sacrificed dwarfbro to a magic sword.
What do we know about the Warhammer World before the Old Ones?
It was much colder.
There were Dragons and Dragon Ogres. (It's weird how Kalgalanos the Black and Krakanrok the Black are almost identical. I get that they're both rip-offs of Ancalagon the Black, but how do you reconcile both of them? Legends of the same being?).
Was there ever a decent aquatic race in the Warhammer Fantasy mythos?
I know the Firmir are semi acquatic, but IIRC they were also limited to one location?
Does anything sapient dwell in the murky depths of the Sea of Claws?
Depends on your definition of sapient. There's Chaos Whales and a not-Ahab chasing one.
>There's Chaos Whales and a not-Ahab chasing one.
Certainly something worth keeping in mind. I'm just working on the outline of the Dark Beneath the World campaign concept, and I think an aquatic antagonist race could be useful here. Was just wondering if there was anything canon or hinted at in the WFRP before I went off and made my own Chaos-tainted Squid People.
Dark Elves probably have gills. You never can tell with them knife-ears, that's what my momma always said.
>Chaos-tainted Squid People.
I am so down with that.
Raping elves, raping dwarves, raping animals, raping each other...
>How the hell did they even breed before human tribes appeared?
Depending on what canon you follow, humans have been around for as long as the Firmir. There's material that says that proto-human tribes outdate the Old Ones.
Plus there's the argument on how the Firmir must be either a demi-human genetic offshoot, or some sort of self-cloning and slowly degrading race.
Not all that interesting. There isn't enough about them to make material for an all-fimir game and it's obviously unworkable to have them run around with humans and dwarves. Go greenskins or skaven if you want a monster party.
They're decent monsters though. The rape thing never especially bothered me.
I've been messing with a more detailed armour system for 2e to better represent the rather piecemeal armour a lot of the empire art shows. It basically breaks the armour down into individual pauldrons, gauntlets, tassets etc.
I was trying to figure out how to format it properly, until I remembered that pastebin exists: http://pastebin.com/raw/ze8SdhsL
Prices listed are for both, but you could just halve it for one piece or the other.
Hmm...Lizardmen make for a likely option for an aquatic race for the Dark Beneath. Don't they breed lizardmen for specific requirements?
If that's so, it's not too strong a leap to assume they'd have an aquatic force.
>I'm assuming the 5 AP max is still in effect?
Yes. The 'Up to 4 per bodypart max' should probably have specified it was AP, and that it was 5 total, including underarmour.
>And can they still buy regular armour?
Yes, although I would say layering mail or scale and the plate pieces isn't allowed because you could just snipe the cheap parts to get a full 5 ap set for cheap.
Some spawnings sacred to tzunki can have gills and webbed hands.
But I don't think the inhabitants of chupayotl are lizardmen, even if it is a theory going around.
Ok, this was everything about chupayotl from the lizardmen armybooks.
I'd also recommend to check luthor blackheart's background as his mask may be related to chupayotl and/or an aquatic race, but I don't actually remember well to say anything.
I mean, why would the lizards have masks depicting a squid-like face?
>I mean, why would the lizards have masks depicting a squid-like face?
Back in the day, there was a lot of talk that there was going to be a Cthulhu-esque aquatic race introduced into the setting. Never happened, but a lot of the ground work was laid to suggest it was an intention.
What other hints can we find for the Squid race? We've got Luthor's mask and the Chupayotl stories. Is there much else out there?
I know the Norscan's believe there's a giant monster at the bottom of the ocean that sinks ships. I'm sure there's something to do with Stromfels in the Gotrek and Felix books. But those just point to giant sea monsters, not a cohesive race.