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Humans
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You are currently reading a thread in /tg/ - Traditional Games

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Hey, /tg/. Am I the only one who hates it when people play as humans in fantasy rpgs?
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Probably.
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>>33974772
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>>33974790
fuck.
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>>33974772
Yes.

And everyone secretly talks behind your back, and we kind of think you're a dick, and probably jerk off to anthropomorphic animals.
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OP confirmed for some sort of fucked up otherkin.
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>hate
No.

Why you would choose to play as what you already are in a fantasy world is beyond me, however.
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>>33974772
Humans are the best, every other race is either dying or uncivilized
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>>33974772
Yeah. We all hate the kind of people that are like you, though.
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I legitimately wish most campaigns were Human-only for players.

Games are always shit when everyone is fighting to have the most ridiculous race, and it always gets in the way of roleplaying. If your character concept is entirely dependent on you being not a human, it's a bad concept.
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>>33974869
>playing as a human means you are the same person

No.

>Using part of your human experience to help you associate with a character is a bad thing

Stop.
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This thread, man
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No because there's generally more variety and creativity in human than non-human characters.

>>33974869
Unless you have autism and define yourself as merely being human, a human character can be vastly different from yourself.
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>>33974906
>play as what you already are

Tumblr is that way, otherkin
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>>33974772
No because there's a chance it might be an interesting concept, unlike characters from other races which 9 out of 10 times are defined entirely by their racial stereotypes. The svelte, taciturn elf; the grumbling, drunk dwarf; the brooding, independent tiefling...

What >>33974900 said
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>>33974945
>Unless you have autism and define yourself as merely being human

That's a bad thing now?
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>>33974946
>Play as what you already are
Where exactly did you infer that from? Because that is explicitly what I said not to do. Being able to associate with your character in one way or another can make it easier to actually roleplay them. That doesn't mean you have to play as your exact self.
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>>33975051
obvious misquote
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>>33974772
No, because the people who play humans nowadays are the good roleplayers. I hate it when the same fucking faggot plays an Elf or Dwarf every fucking game and it's literally the same fucking character with a different name.

I liked it better when being anything but a human in fantasy rpgs was shit because it deterred them from doing this shit.
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>>33974844

>And everyone secretly talks behind your back, and we kind of think you're a dick, and probably jerk off to anthropomorphic animals.

Wait, we think he jerks off to anthropomorphic animals, or we do? I didn't get the memo on this.
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>>33974869
I do it because it's usually very easy to make a human do whatever you want with regards to class, backstory etc. Since we seem to be pigeon holed as prolific breeders who lust after territory and resources we're typically the most falible and widespread race in most settings. I am a human so I know what it's like to be one. I don't know what it's like to be something with an average life expectancy of 1000 years, or something with an innate kleptomaniacal inclination. Human's are easy to make and play and that makes for a more immersive experience for me in an otherwise foreign fantastical setting. It's just harder to react to things in a realistic or compelling way when I have to consider my character's completely alien outlook on life. It's just a happy medium between the familiar and the unfamiliar.
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>>33975261
Personally, as a DM, I don't care what you say about setting, I just cannot take you seriously when your character is a Thri-Kreen or something and you just walk into a town and go shopping like it's normal.

YOU'RE A FUCKING GIANT BUG.
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>>33974772

What about settings where the only playable race is human? Like Ars Magica, REIGN, HOL, and likely others I'm not aware of.
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>>33975303

But that's like Thursday in Dark Sun.
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>>33975303
>Allowing a player to be a Thri-Kreen
>It gets like +30 on Jump Checks, or +10 in it's "balanced" Pathfinder form

No.
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>>33975388
>+30 to jump
>broken

The wizard fucking FLIES.
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>>33975303
That''s totally normal on Athas, though. Thri-Kreen are everywhere.
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>>33975388
>playing 3.x/Pathfinder
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>>33975230

To be fair, I know guys who do that and play humans.
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>>33975425

But wizards are supposed to be broken, everyone else has to be mudfarmers!
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>>33975388
Unless your DM's primary inspiration is the mushroom kingdom, I don't think jumping prowess is going to be a major unbalancing factor.
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>>33975508
But you can't play a thri-keen, because their four arms mean they can farm mud twice as fast -- it's not fair to the good roleplayers playing human mud farmers.

Also, never mind that the wizard has an invisible servant farming his mud for him while he drinks mimosas.
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What some people see as relating to a character and using what they know as creating a character with more depth, others see as a crutch and a willful lack of adaptation to the setting presented.

Personally, I've always felt that using humans as a singular option with consistent traits that somehow still represent the balanced option should be an affront to both parties. Sentients of any variety should represent a realm of variability equivalent to our own in scope but never in content. If elves are simply skinny arrogant humans and dwarves are simply stout, greedy, alcoholic humans you're both lessening humans by infringing on their territory and thoroughly missing the point of the game.

People who genuinely attempt to portray non humans as other than human should be lauded for the sheer difficulty of the task, and those who portray humans true to the depth and breadth of our experience, equally so.

Shallow caricatures of either? Fully worthy of contempt by all parties.
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>>33975549

I chuckled pretty hard. Good one, anon!
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>>33975388
>not wanting to be a thri-keen John Carter
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>>33974772

0/10

You sound like -that- player/DM


The one that makes the super snowflake epic 1337 min/max character that is half angel/ half demon all edge

Jesus I fucking hate people like you
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>>33975640

You don't need special races to do that. The original Mary Sue was a human, anon.
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>>33975678
I thought Drizzt was a drow?
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I don't dislike people for playing human
Its just another race to choose from amongst them all, however, I do get a little sick of the game designers always making it so that humans are generally one of the best races to choose from and generically good at everything without any downsides while many of the other races are highly specialized and suck at a lot of stuff or have serious downsides
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>>33975710
The original Mary Sue was a human... brace yourself... named Mary Sue.
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>>33975710
The original Mary Sue was a human character in a Star Trek fanfiction, if I recall correctly.
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>>33975710
Uncultured plebian.
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>>33975727
>mfw
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>>33975769
You didn't brace.
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>>33975240
I was confused as well.
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>>33975802
I rolled a 4
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>>33975726
Can I take a second to hit right here and tell you how I hate Dragon Age II because of that?
Fuck everything, my Grey Warden was a dwarf and I wanted to be a dwarf. No lore reason why I couldn't be a different race you fucks.

Okay I'm done.
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>>33975815
The wording was ambiguous, and I apologize.
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>>33975726
Human's can't excel at shit like others can, is the idea. People who care about maximisation generally nevrr pick humans because apparently not being the best at something means you're useless.
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I think it is perfectly okay to play humans. Unless your lore is REALLY good, most races are just reskinned humans anyway or don't make sense at all.
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>>33975888
I don't know, I've often picked human because of how mechanically strong it is for making a specialized character. Dat bonus feat is good for that.
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>>33975526
>Not basing an entire campaign off of Super Mario World/Mario RPG/Paper Mario

I bet you don't even require 100 head-sized gold discs for your player's true resurrection spells.

>tfw the wizard has to be dressed as a giant-nutted raccoon to use his fly spell
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Meh. I generally think that most races don't really offer much roleplaying credit over doing the same thing with a human and are only good for some random bonuses and penalties that sort of cheapen the whole experience

I kind of wish games would either just have diverse humans and alien as fuck other races that aren't really suited to players, or no humans and a bunch of star-trek-like races that just represent different cultures
>>33975388
Unless we're getting into that bullshit jump check diplomacy shit I really don't see the danger in +30 to jump when everyone gets the ability to fly as soon as they can
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>>33975973
>After fighting through to its secret lair, you finally cross the threshold into his treasure chamber.
>Roll initiative
>The dragon begins throwing hammers at you, what's your AC?
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>>33975303
I like Thri-kreen but I don't play like an average Joe. They're fucking alien minded bug-people! I generally play them as entirely dependant on their party with regards to interaction. It can make for some interesting scenarios when you're caught by yourself in a foreign land with no idea what sarcasm sounds like from a human, or whether or not a human child is actually a full grown halfling, or be able to tell one person from another wjo you aren't very familiar with. Essentially I play Thri-kreen as autistic and not in a "haha he doesn't get it" kinda way, as in "I'm a big fucking target for thieves, con-artists and xenophobic mobs and I know it, I can't trust anyone but my friends".
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>>33975837
Im your defense it's pretty safe to assume you mean the guy you talk about behind his back is the one doing the jerking to anthros since it's a pretty odd thing to admit you sit around with a bunch of friends masturbating and complaining about somebody's peculiarities.
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>>33976259
I thought so too, but evidently some folks didn't make those leaps.
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>>33975727
>>33975743
Pretty sure anon was making a joke about how Drizzt was a Mary Sue character before the actual Mary Sue that spawned the term even existed, since Drizzt's books came out in the 80s/90s
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>>33975942
Fluffwise that tends to be the case at least, our strength is rarely that we're better at something just that we don't have any accute vulnerabilities and we breed like crazy.
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I think more people should play as lizardy guys. They're pretty cool.
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>>33976343
I can agree with this. Lizard-type individuals are neat.
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>>33976000
>I kind of wish games would either just have diverse humans and alien as fuck other races that aren't really suited to players, or no humans and a bunch of star-trek-like races that just represent different cultures

Traveller does the first, with a smidge of the latter. Players who know their stuff can handle a Vargr or maybe an Aslani. Most of the other alien races are too weird psychologically and/or physically to be playable races.
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>>33976296
People are weird, you never kmow.
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>>33976343
I like lizardy guys too. And kobolds. And Thri-Keen.

In fantastical settings, I do usually prefer to play mundane characters, however. I enjoy stories of success that rely on skill and natural strength and intelligence instead of superpowers or reality-fucking magic. It just seems more fulfilling to me. But maybe I'm just a faggot.
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>>33974772
I honestly don't like it I mean it's like this is a fucking role playing game and instead of being something cool you decide to be exactly what you already are
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>>33976319

Star Trek fanfiction dates from the dark ages, pre-internet.
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>>33976296
Then again this is /tg/ we're talking about.
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>>33976402
For me, I'm already a human, and this is a fantasy/magical world, so I figure I should be something that isn't in the real world. That, and I think reptiles are awesome.
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>>33974772
I hope so, you half-fae catboy player.

Doesn't anyone else love going up against special snowflake races and bizarre creatures as a human and winning? I'm surprised more people don't list this as a reason to play human.
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>>33976296

I saw what you were geting at, but the misunderstanding was funnier to me.
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>>33976402
Thas'coo. Makes it so when you turn up to the table with a Thri-Kreen bard all the more interesting.

DEEDLEDEEDLEDEEDLEWHOOOOOOOOOOOP!
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>>33976343
Lizard guys are really neat, but people often play them as just scaled humans. Like, do you even bask?
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>>33976503
What counts as a special snowflake race for you?
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>>33976503
>I'm surprised more people don't list this as a reason to play human.

You're weird, man. Work out your personal issues elsewhere, that's not what the gaming table is for.
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Most fantasy races are really just a variety of human, so why not just make them human and call it a day?
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>>33974772
>>33974869
People like you are what is wrong with roleplaying games. You rely on physical characteristics or templates in order to make an interesting character. "Oh he's an Elf Paladin with silver hair and magic purple eyes who worships the god of shitfuckery!"

You don't care about personality or backstory, or if you do it's just a slight interest that has no real bearing on your characters behavior and actions. You're the same kind of person who uses the alignment system to justify ridiculous bullshit. "Oh he's Chaotic Neutral so robbing and then buttfucking this guy is totally fine."

If you need to use shit like this as a crutch, you're a shitty roleplayer and a have no business playing RPGs.
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>>33974772
No, not really. Most of the interesting character concepts I've heard were from people who played humans. That said: humans are extremely dull, stat-wise and fluff-wise, in most RPGs.
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>>33976586
I assume you mean elves, dwarves and the like? I usually play kenku and thri-kreen, so those don't really apply.
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>>33976588
That's quite the generalization.
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>>33976606

I do, but let's do an experiment. Look at the personality and characteristics aside from appearance that make a Kenku or a Thri-keeen, and see if they can feasibly be applied to a human. I'm willing to bet it can.
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>>33976647
I've seen this attitude enough to know I'm right.
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>>33976654

If a human behaved like the Hiver in >>33976396 likely does, he would be clinically insane.
Just saying.
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>>33976661
I don't even care if you're right now. You just seem like a smug self-satisfied cunt.
I do not support whatever it is you are saying and support whatever it is the other guy is saying just because of that.
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>>33975640

I like how angry she dances
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>>33976458
...This information both fascinates and disturbs me.
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>>33976721
Wait till you fine out about fanzines.
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>>33976654
Having four arms?

Psionic abilities?

Also, insectoid breeding means the socioeconomic unit of the family -- the cornerstone of every historical human civilization -- is nonexistent.
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I think the "humans are boring" claim is bullshit. They're only boring if you make them boring. It's a fantasy world. Give them an interesting culture or even give them some magical capabilities if needed.

Ex. Like a culture of jungle dwellers who aren't shy about cannibalism. When greatly enraged they have the power to make foes flee with an unnaturally terrifying gaze.

Fuck the jack-of-all trades average joe crap. That only works in a story where you are locked into the human perspective. Going up against things much stronger than you or forces that may as well be beyond your understanding.

When you have other perspectives and races to choose from, it would be best to specialize humans like other races. Make them "just another race", and don't just hand over all our assets to non-humans. Humans have exceptional aim and stamina. Also the ability to sweat and not care too much about sun exposure. Play with that sort of thing. Make your races non-human, not human +1.
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>>33976742
You're either really selling short the alienesque attributes of those races or you do play them like humans in a non-human skin.
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>>33976434

OP don't samefag, it's embarrassing.
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>>33976721

People used to pass around print copies of awful fanfiction. There's one fantasy fan novel that used to be used as a convention game -- people would take turns reading it, and see how many lines they could read before they started laughing. Then pass it to the next player.
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>>33974772
You are That Guy. Kindly quit the hobby forever.
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>>33976742

>Four arms

I said beyond appearance.

>Psionic abilities

Humans can have that.

>Insectoid breeding

Such a thing can be simulated by humans too. Children raised by the collective.
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>>33976764
I was naming qualities that make them different from humans.

Personality-wise, only the last one is super relevant, but it's a pretty big deal. It's basically impossible to imagine humans without thinking about families. Imagine how absurd the notion would seem to any intelligent insect walking through a human settlement.
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>>33976788
How's he That Guy? Wouldn't he have to be be disruptive or whatever to the group for that?
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OP sure is samefagging a lot in this thread.
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>>33976817

He wants to play something other than humans, therefore he's a furry, therefore he's That Guy.
It's airtight e-logic!
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>>33976809
A child can be raised by wolves and never develop language, would you say someone playing a straight up wolf in an RPG is 'just playing a reskinned human?'
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>>33974869
Are you a loli, onii-chan?
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>>33976817
Because That Guy is joining the ranks of fedora and weabooo. It now just means thing I don't like.
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>>33976742

Read some Thri-Keen fluff, particularly from 2E, it's actually pretty interesting stuff
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>>33976845
Lolis are not mere humans. They are above and beyond such earthy forms.
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>>33976550
Poor choice of words, I meant something really fantastical and rare. Doesn't have to be a special snowflake although most homebrew races I've come across would count.
>>33976560
I don't get it. It's just a thematic preference.
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>>33976843

No, because a child raised by wolves is not a wolf. A wolf has methods of communication and enhanced senses a human does not. A child can simulate this communication, but it lacks integral parts, like a tail.
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>>33976905
So... the difference is the physical traits... like, say, having four arms, or a racial jump bonus.

Are you intentionally arguing in circles? I'm confused. Am I being trolled?
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>>33976855

Don't forget autistic as another one of those buzz words!
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>>33976905

Aha! But now you're just using appearance!

Bazinga!
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>>33976930
Well yeah. We'd be here all day if we wanted to list them all. It's a shame these days how often words with proper means become another word for I don't like this.
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>>33976747
>Humans are persistence hunters
This should be the racial focus of humans, not "jack of all trades, master of none except sometimes diplomacy"
Humans can do everything for longer, but not as strong.
Elves are faster than humans but can't chase someone down as long as we do. They are also nocturnal.
Dwarves can take a punch. But if someone goals all out on them their tiny form will be overwhelmed and won't be able to keep up defensive wise.

And that's why humans are the dominant race. Because we breed like rats and unlike rats can take a lot of punishment.
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>>33976788

He's not That Guy, he's just a faggot.
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>>33976882
Ah, okay. So something like a kobold or thri-kreen wouldn't be something you're against?
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>>33976930
>>33976938

No I'm not. Wolves have an instinctual method of communication, that isn't a physical trait.
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>>33976951
>dwarf tires out, flops to the floor
>human plops elf down next to him from the extended piggy back
>tells them they have thirty minutes to rest up, then they move again
>stands watch
>part members just shudder and mutter about fucking human stamina

Warforged are like ultrahumans.
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>>33976970
So do Thri-keen, probably; I haven't read the books.

Raising a human child in a hive society would be no different in principle from letting it be raised by wolves -- you can shove all the nurture you want in there, nature is still about 70% of who you are.

You can call anything playable a 'reskinned human' because the only way to meet your ridiculous standard for inhumanity is to make something too bizarre to even fathom its motivations from a human perspective.
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>>33976994
>human endurance is the reason for having so many half-breeds around
You know it's true.
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>>33977051

>"Death by snu-snu!"
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>>33977039
>inhumanity is to make something too bizarre to even fathom its motivations from a human perspective

Exactly. If everything we could possibly think of that's playable is a derivative of humanity, why not make it a really fucking interesting group of humans, rather than adding superfluous window dressing to make it "unique"
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>>33976994
>Warforged are like ultrahumans.
Warforged are just sentient machines/inorganics right? That's easy
They don't recover damage naturally. Living thing heal some wouldn't that don't kill them given enough time. A warforged can die from a thousand cuts after a few years.
Repairs don't work because, well, have you ever tried to repair a machine that was still on?
I might be wrong though, don't know shit about warforged.
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You gotta have some humans in the party. Every group needs the straight man and human characters play that role to the party of bugs, lizards and humans with things glued to their head.
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>>33977098
I don't even know what I'm arguing with anymore.
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>>33977098
Perhaps because while adding weird aesthetics and biology to a group of people isn't actually sufficient to make them unique and interesting by itself, that doesn't mean it can't be cool sometimes to put in along with the interesting narrative roles and such?
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>>33976951
The current science favors the interpretation. Anyone with a brain knows running a fucking marathon for 1 meal is horribly inefficient.

Science will give up its brain fart soon and this persistent hunters thing will be put behind us when the next theory emerges.
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>>33977101
There's a repair spell. Or, at least, there's one in Dungeons and Dragons Online.

>>33977107
There's one party I know of that has the Dragonborn as the straight man. Then again, there's only one human in that party.
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>>33977188
>1 meal
Have you ever seen a gazelle?
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>>33977179

I find such details superfluous and detracts from how awesome humans can be.
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>>33976956
Those are cool. It's mainly the monster slaying that appeals to me anyway.

When you're an elf, dragonborn, and tiefling people expect you to save the day. The thought of some human with a not-too-crazy background holding their own against an ancient demon, dragons, or a powerful lich brings a smile to my face. Probably why I like kobolds and halflings as well.
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>>33977222

You mean that like in the animal way or like in the slang term?
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>>33977222

Leave the poor guy alone, he didn't define American portion sizes.
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>>33977222
You plan on hunting alone? It might be more than 1 meal but the point holds. The human endurance thing came about as a way to explain human bipedalism. It's a shoddy explanation at best, it's just what science is sticking with because there's nothing better.
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>>33977241
>detracts from how awesome humans can be.

And now the motive surfaces! Humans are YOUR special snowflake race!
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>>33977242
Yeah, I like reptiles and underdogs, so kobolds are pretty much my favorite race.
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>>33977248
What on Earth is 'gazelle' slang for?
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>>33977188
You're assuming a whole animal is just a few cuts of meat. Some tribes in Africa still practice it too, and we do have top tier stamina. Not to mention this can be done in groups so you get more meals.
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>>33977277
>It's a shoddy explanation at best
Then what is your belief? You can't just say "that's a bullshit reason all those scientists are wrong" without stating your own case.
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>>33977277
I've not seen critique of the persistence hunting theory. Do you happen to have calorie intake/expenditure comparisons?
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>>33977363

He most certainly can, good sir! We're on the internet, after all!

Also, the earth is flat and hollow. At the same time. Because reasons!
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>>33977278
Not him but you have to be shitposting to twist it like that.

Would you have rather he said : "It distracts or overwrites our niche."
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>>33977188
There are several tribes in Africa still doing that...
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>>33977365
I saw packs of wolves hunt a few times, they cut off possible escape routes/surround their prey rather than strictly exhausting it. You'd think a much smarter predator would use as clever a means.

>>33977411
and they're tribes because they waste all fucking day hunting rather than doing something useful.
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>>33977398

I'm joking, relax. Why so on edge, man?
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>>33977436
So humans aren't persistent hunters because we're smart enough to use tactics to take down prey?
Are you implying that we can't do both?
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>>33977436
Wolves run faster than humans, though. Just because something is hard doesn't mean it's impractical, relatively speaking.
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>>33977277
They're not claiming it to be the primary reason. Part of it was our environment. We needed to see our surroundings and a better form of locomotion with sparse trees.
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>>33977436
>2-4 hrs to get an antilope
>all day
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>>33977446
I'm tired and we're in a (sort of) bait thread.
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>>33977436
>and they're tribes because they waste all fucking day hunting rather than doing something useful.

that doesn't mean that being a persistence predator doesn't work. It just means that an agrarian society is more successful.

Given that you've now acknowledge that actually people can survive using persistence hunting are you planning to acknowledge the faults in your original argument or just continue insisting you are right?
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>Not hunting via Doom-Roombas
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>>33977500

This is true. It's why I'm not trying too hard to take it seriously. Also, it's late and I should probably go to bed, I'm liable to get goofy.
>>
>>33977527
>no roomba taped on roomba
0/10 would not escalate
>>
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This debate is fucking stupid. Of course any character you play is going to be a "re-skinned human"- there's a human beind the steering wheel making the decisions. Any psyche, any personal decision a character would make is intrinsically human because -a human thought of it-. "Non-human psyche/ decisions" is an empty-set, because we're all fucking people and anything we can conceptualize is part of the human experience.

If you want to play a pointy-eared guy, or a bug or a lizard, go ahead. It wouldn't make the character's actions any less human because the player made the decisions.
>>
>>33977509
>are you planning to acknowledge the faults in your original argument or just continue insisting you are right?

Like you don't already know the answer...
>>
>>33977559
>No roomba with an assault rifle moving around on an elevated platform held aloft by four other roombas.

Enjoy just shooting people in the shins, plebeians.
>>
>>33977467
>>33977509
>>33977479
>>33977478
Sure we can do both. You can also sweep your floor with a toothbrush. A broom and a toothbrush both get the job done, one is just a lot more efficient than the other.

What's more likely.
1. Every primitive human ever was a persistence hunter.
or
2. We don't fully understand the reasons behind the evolution of human bipedalism.

it's ok to see a scientific theory and decide "It's not good enough, I'll wait for something better or more proof until I accept it"
>>
Hold on.
Why are you guys talking about humans in fantasy setting as something detached from laws of the world?

Seriously, your average fantasy setting has magic here, wizardry there, demon pacts all around, and suddenly there are humans, living in some sort of mundanity bubble. It's like all magic suddenly stops existing when we're talking about human andgame shifts into MAXIMUM HISTORICAL REALISM DIRTFARMERS ONLY NO MAGIC FINAL DESTINATION mode.
This is kinda dumb, seriously.
>>
>>33977619
>1. Every primitive human ever was a persistence hunter.
I don't think anyone has claimed that, just that persistence hunting has been a thing at some point for some people. That is, it probably contributed to the evolution of human bipedalism but isn't the sole reason behind it.
>>
>>33977585
I still somewhere in my withered heart hold hope that I'll meet someone who considers the point of an argument to be discovering the truth rather than winning.
>>
>>33977629
>This is kinda dumb, seriously.
Welcome to /tg/.
>>
>>33977619
Persistence hunters are also less likely to be injured while hunting, since whatever they're going after is likely exhausted. Much more efficient to spend 2-4 hours running than it is to spend 2-4 days healing, assuming you don't break any bones.
>>
>>33977688

We are out there.
>>
>>33977688
Evolutionarily speaking, people developed oratory and logical reasoning to convince people to follow them, not to find any objective truth.
>>
>>33975303
This.

It's one of the reasons I don't play DnD anymore; all player races, no matter how wild, are treated the same by the rules no matter how weird they are.

FFS: Tieflings, Genesai, Thri-Kreen, Drow, even fucking Half-Orcs, should be dealing with some serious prejudice from 'regular' folk - they're all either too alien, or of evil origin, for normal folk to treat them like any other average joe. Humans are pretty racist towards humans with different skin colour as is - how do you really think they'd be toward some fuck with glowing eyes and horns coming out of his head?

But if you homebrew it, your players get their knickers in a knot and cry foul of you being "unfair" toward them.
>>
>>33977629
>detached from laws of the world
>every single race has some crazy magic
>humans do not
Are you stupid? Humans are the most realistic race.
>>
>>33977763
Well, if those races have been around humans to begin with so that's it's normal for them, there probably wouldn't be too much prejudice. At least, in more civilized societies.
>>
>>33977629
That's why if other races have distinctly weird powers and humans are a thing in that setting, then you should also give them powers. Make them fit in.

One of my weirder settings has humans descended from an ape kaiju demigod, and they can tap into his fiery rage at times because of it.
>>
>>33977763
Then you have shit players, or you don't communicate this shit before character creation. Maybe some of both.
>>
>>33977629
>>33977787
>Humans are the only race in the world that doesn't have magic
>They in fact project a natural anti-magic field
>This effect grows in size geometrically the more humans are in one place
>>
>>33977578
Your objection is fucking stupid. It's called roleplaying.
>>
>>33976319
The Drizzt books happened in the mid-late 90s. The Trek fanfiction from the term 'Mary Sue' is derived, predates the internet.

Shouldn't you be in school or something?
>>
>>33977816
...saiyans?
>>
>>33974772
His favorite race is troll guys, don't fall for the bait.
>>
>>33977763

I thought racial prejudices and bigotry was a major part of DnD?
>>
>>33977863
>164 replies
You might be a little late...
>>
>>33977833

This sounds amazing as a person who likes to play a witch-hunter
>>
>>33977886
Maybe its really weak with small numbers, and barely fizzles a weak enchantment with a team of human witchunters outside of human territory.
But it's exponential, in human cities you can travel a couple leagues and anything magic will have the energy annihilated instantly.
>>
>>33977763
This is a question of familiarity. Thri-kreen are, despite their weirdness, common as hell and different from humans enough to not trigger "COMPETITION!" center in our brain. More humanlike races are also common enough so we get used to them.

Also, while everyone is a little bit racist, just being a half-orc shouldn't provide /pol/-tier frothing rage in people anywhere you go.
>>
>>33977908
Depends on the setting you fuck. Also, just because thri-kreen are common in one place doesn't mean they are in another.
Individual countries and city states can be hella racist too.
>>
When speaking of human determination as a special quality, it makes me think of long-term focus and endurance. I mean very long-term. Like a guy who's wife is killed and he spends seven years finding the guy who did it, willing to chase him to the opposite side of the planet just to stab him in the throat. Like the Marathon runner who ran nonstop for miles and miles just to deliver a single message then collapsed dead on the spot. Like the scientist that dedicates their entire life to the pursuit of an answer to a single question, the artist who chases after their dream of creating their magnum opus, the general who is going to win the war because he endures every setback and never once considers surrender.

I think if humans have a gimmick, it's being stubborn, obsessive, single-minded, and willing to do everything and anything to accomplish what we want to. Whereas other races would be more rational and give up on things that don't look like they'll pan out, humans will keep on trying even when it's foolish to do so.

We're a race of problem gamblers. We keep playing until we either win, lose everything we have, or lose our minds. Even when the game is rigged.
>>
>>33977863
Fuck you, man, we're talkng about weird humans now and you cannot stop us.

>>33977816
In my setting humans are the only race that produces their own magical energy. They don't produce much, but because of how magic works in this universe every other species freak out at this ability and humans have superiority complex the size of Jupiter.
>>
>>33977841
I actually wasn't thinking of them when I came up with that. I thought of how gods fucked everything in myth. So the god that created elves fucked some ape mega fauna thing and gave birth to the "first human". He was eventually exiled for wrecking things and being a dick. His children (humans) would also later get nerfed by the gods for starting shit.
>>
>>33977933
Yes, it does depend on a setting (i was assuming we talk about Athas when we talk about thri-kreen).
Also nothing prevents DM to make a race a player has chosen and make it common.
>Genasi? Yes, 300 years ago some crazy wizard tried to merge material plne and elemental chaos. He didn't succeed, but there are a shitton of half-elementals here now.
>Kitsune? Yes, this kingdom has strong trade relations with Mystical Notjapan, these guys are not a weird sight.
>Gwargdlabrwoks? The Gwargdlabrwokistan is our trusty ally against those faggot Wfirgliglogels.

How mundane is the race depends on DM first, players second and MUH HISTORICAL ACCURACY/MUH LORE lags somewhere behind.
>>
>>33978062
I'd say you can always be pretty sure that the core human/elf/dwarf/halfling will be standard, tieflings usually accepted if distrusted with all other races being vaguely distrusted to feared unless the DM includes them in the "no these guys are cool" list.

Just seems to be how things go.
>>
>>33978101
That's basically it, but if my player wants to play something weird i'd better spend time with him working out the culture of his chosen race, rather than say "no".

Because i like playing weird shit too
>>
I'm Currently enjoying playing a Human Paladin that's not-racist towards other races since I'm the only Human in the party.

>"They do not really like Knife-Ears around here, but fret not, I put in word you're a good man, I mean, Elf, not to say you're any less than a man from being an Elf though."
>"Can I get you a drink? I couldn't help but notice you making plaintive gestures towards another one of the patrons, I'm not offering because you are a Dwarf of course, I simply wish to engage in a conversation man-to-man; Dwarf, I mean Man-to-Dwarf."
>>
>>33978221
I love it.
>>
>>33977818
Oh no, I've communicated it plenty of times. It usually goes along the lines of:
>The following races are playable [list of races]

>The following races are not available to players. I don't care whether they're officially published or not, they're not part of *this* setting [list of tieflings, warforged, other races specific to particular settings, etc.] or they're not appropriate for *heroic characters* [list of "monster races", e.g. kobolds, goblins, trolls, etc.]

>The following races are available, but players should be aware that 'normal civilisation' (i.e. human/elf/dwarf/whatever races I've put in my setting) will usually regard them negatively, ranging from disdain to outright contempt. Consider yourself warned. {list of races such as dark elves, half-orcs, possibly even half-elves}

This is typically followed by the shitlords arguing with me that:
>it's not fair that they can't play as a warforged/thri-kreen/other setting specific race, despite the fact we aren't playing greyhawk/points of light/forgotten realms/eberron/particular setting X.

>it's not fair that I won't allow them to play a "monster race" (example, kobolds, goblins, githyanki), because there's stats in splatbook #437

>it's not fair that dark-elves/drow/half-orcs should be regarded as evil, despite drow/orc/whatever society being known to enslave/murder/yada yada yada humans/dwarves/whoever the fuck else, because *their* character isn't like that.

I *always* lay out what is and isn't available straight from the get go, and I've had pretty diverse race options in past and present games (e.g. I'll often go with Minotaurs and Lizardmen as player races in my fantasy games, because I think they're cool), I just used to have pretty retarded players. Playing DnD with all the wankery in 3.5 really didn't help.
>>
>>33976503
HFY fag please go
>>
>>33978264
>shitlords

Don't do use that. It's too tumblr and SRS.
>>
>>33977908
please see ym follow up satement here (>>33978264), for further clarification of why I restrict certain races, and why I don't like DnD's approach to things.
>>
>>33978264
Oh okay. You just have shit players. Maybe try saying "then prove to the citizens you're not like that"?
I don't know how to deal with stupid. Nobody does.
>>
>>33978269
Don't be an idiot and read the rest of conversation before replying. Also, HFY is a solid theme. It doesn't exclusively mean WH40k and Avatar revenge wanking.
>>
>>33978264

I once convinced the GM to let me play a Kobold even though I knew fully well I'd get killed if I was discovered.
I ended up disguising myself as a human child everywhere and got partied up with the paranoid sorcerer, eventually I died in a dungeon I followed him into and upon mourning the death of a child he failed to protect, he realized I was a Kobold. In a Kobold dungeon (Tribe that had exiled my character). Needless to say the Sorcerer started to think he had lost his mind and this development led him to a spiral into insanity
>>
>>33978301
I dealt with it by switching to GURPS, wherein you can simply add in a Social Stigma disiadvantage to the racial template (so the player knows exactly what they're getting from the second they read over the race) and switching out my group of 3.5tards and starting a new group with all new players who are more interested in playing something cool and characterful and *actually roleplaying*.
>>
>>33978264
>only tolkien races playable
>muh tolkien
>guys muh tolkien
>gobble gobble tolkien's dick snarf snarf i can't possibly imagine anything else oh god i love tolkien's dick
God forbid players get to enjoy being fantasy races in a fantasy setting without vigorously sucking off tolkien or your fap fantasies.
>>
>>33978264
>>33978298
That's fine and fair if you tell them beforehand. If players act like entitled babies it's their fault, not races'. And it's likely that they will be acting like that even with "standard" races. There's no cure for shitlordery.
>>
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>>33978322
>Also, HFY is a solid theme.
Pic related.
>It doesn't exclusively mean WH40k and Avatar revenge wanking.
No it doesn't, it just means exclusive human wanking and pathetic nerd power fantasies.
>>
>>33978374
did you just conveniently not read the bit where I said
>I've had pretty diverse race options in past and present games (e.g. I'll often go with Minotaurs and Lizardmen as player races in my fantasy games, because I think they're cool)
?

Or are you too busy jacking off over Thri-kreen hentai to actually parse a couple of sentences?
>>
>>33978398
>An entire theme and general circle of ideas is completely without merit because I don't like some of them

>Assuming that disliking HFY is anything but Fedoracore

>"Humans are degenerate and suck and that's proof enough that all fantasy should be without them just like our false deities"
>>
>>33978433
>>33978398
Thread officially beyond saving. Good night, /tg/.
>>
>>33974772

I would really like to say I don't understand peoples absolute hatred of a specific D&D race, but then I remembered Kender exist.

I secretly want to see a campaign with a well played kender. I want the end of this campaign to be the BBEG claiming the PCs are too late all he has to do now is use this ancient ritual dagger and WHERE THE FUCK IS MY RITUAL DAGGER?
>>
>>33978264
>or they're not appropriate for *heroic characters*
[ellipses intensify]

okay, okay, seriously now, what if player has the character concept that he thinks is cool and he's willing to work for it or already did (presented some fluffy explanation why warforged can exist in setting for example)?
Would you be willing to work with player or just veto? Mind, vetoing is fine if you have NO IDEA how to include something in non-stupid way
>>
>>33978398
But that's not true. Although I have to wonder if I'm talking to the same faggot every time this comes up.

Speculative fiction ranging from our biology, culture or some unforeseen gimmick are parts of HFY. That was kind of the point. Giving humanity it's hat or how alien we could to be other life.

The humorous (yes the edgier stories were made when people took facetiousness seriously) stories that make our moral faults a strength are just another variant of HFY that got taken too far.

Are there power fantasies? Yes. Are they all like that? No.
>>
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>>33978465

>"Aww you little rascal, give it back to Papa Demi-Lich now! C'moooon!"
>"DO IT FAGGOT FUCKING FAGGOT KENDER, I FUCKING HATE YOU, FFFFFFFFF"
>>
>>33978463
'night, stranger. Sweet dreams, may they be more than whatever you didn't get here.
>>
>>33978500
>okay, okay, seriously now, what if player has the character concept that he thinks is cool and he's willing to work for it or already did (presented some fluffy explanation why warforged can exist in setting for example)?

If they've got a *really* cool idea, I'll normally work with them, I'm not afraid to compromise. If I really have no fucking idea on how it could be properly fluffed out, or if I think it's a bit too imbalanced, I'll normally just say that to the player, and then we find some other alternative for them.

Warforged are a good example. They're pretty much magical robots, and they're not something I'd normally allow. If I had a player who had a really good story explanation for it, I might roll with it. Otherwise we might come to some sort of compromise, for example a shade/ghost trapped/bound within a set of armour or something.

But when it's pretty much just "i want to play 'race X', despite you saying it's not allowed, because I want [this bonus or that thing]" then no, i'm not going to budge, and it's not happening.
>>
>>33976343
>tfw Forgotten Realms setting book didn't have lizardmen in 4E.
>>
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>>33976343
What about lizardy girls?
>>
>>33978837
I'm currently playing a lizardwoman fighter, but since lizardfolk in the setting have been described as having little to no sexual dimorphism and we're in mostly-human lands, her gender may or may not be relevant to much of anyone at any point.
>>
>>33978837
Reptilian kobolds are worst kobolds, just like green orcs are worst orcs.
>>
>>33979341
Reptilian kobolds are the most fuckable though.
You wouldn't fuck a dog-like kobold.
>>
>>33978837
That one seems to be fond of dairy products... kinda odd for a reptile.
>>
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>>33978374
>dark elves
>half-orcs
>tolkien

Full fucking retard. If you're going to claim he's a cock-swilling dander then at least accuse of him of lusting after the correct person
>>
>>33976586
Why do people like you keep claiming elves and dwarves are just 'a variety of human' despite that not being even remotely the case in most fantasy settings.

But go ahead, explain how they are just humans despite being different in size, shape, psychology, culture, preference of habitat, innate capability and many other things.
>>
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>>33979347
>You wouldn't fuck a dog-like kobold.
Are you sure ?
>>
>>33978507

See, while all of that sounds fine, I really wish I could go about doing the polar opposite setting where humans either don't exist or are just an insignificant background detail without HFYfags busting in to shit it up.
>>
>>33976927
Of course he is. People who think all fantasy races are just reskinned humans have utterly absurd definitions of what makes something 'too human'. This includes having understandable motivations, emotions, goals and wants. Never mind that it is both realistic and useful for the game for other races to be understandable.
>>
>>33979526
That's a half kobold or monstergirl at best. And yes I'd bang that. Probably not the full fuzzbold.
If you want a fuzzy kobold just use a gnoll. Its not like there are scaley gnolls to confuse them with.
>>
>>33979526
This is fucking human, that looks like human, BUT has "strange ears"
>>
>>33976499
>lizardman with external ears
No, this is not ok.
>>
>>33979693
Must be a corrupted elf or human then. Or maybe crossbreeds are possible after all.
>>
>>33979528
> I really wish I could go about doing the polar opposite setting where humans either don't exist or are just an insignificant background detail without HFYfags busting in to shit it up.

One of CATastrophe guys here.
Me too.
>>
>>33979347
The only way any Kobold is getting fucked is metaphorically, because it's sure fucked when it's broken skull tastes the bottom of my boot.
>>
>>33979688
>Human have snout
Where do you live?
>>
>>33979860
Agreed.
I don't even hate kobolds, it's sheer contempt for lizardfuckers at this point.
>>
>>33977803
The same logic should apply to human ethnic minorities or fringe demographics.

Protip; it doesn't.
>>
>>33978756
I'm curious how will it be in 5e.
>>
>>33979396

>dark elves

The Avari are literally >>33979396
dark elves. You know, faggots like Legolas.


>half-orcs

Sarumans spies in Bree are referred to as Orc-men. They might not be half-orcs in the literal sense of one orc parent one human parent, but there's definitely some admixture of orc and human.


You have read Tolkien, haven't you?
>>
>>33979510

Elves are nature loving bohemians, dwarves are fond of drink and industry. Nothing particularly inhuman there.
>>
In my one campaign heavily inspired by Japanese "western fantasy" like Berserk, Demon's Souls, Soul Sacrifice, and heraldry symbolism and mythology, I basically made only humans playable, but certain traits they have represent something about them. For example, to the Japanese pointed ears symbolize something spiritual. so people raised among spirits, who have taken spirits into themselves, or are very strong spiritually, may be born with pointed ears. This is just a minor change, nothing like say, making pacts with spirits of knowledge to defeat a demon army, causing knowledge representations of snakes to sprout from your head, your gaze capable of making the malevolent spirits/demons inert at the cost of your sanity.
>>
>>33977436
Humans persistence hunt similarly to wolves.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/nature/Fair-Chase.html
>>
>>33974772
I pretty much always play as humans so its easier for me to self insert and pilot my character in a good fashion.

However recently I've been branching out to other races.

Also, this thread is kinda b8.
>>
>>33976951
I've always thought of humans as the Charisma/Dexterity race in real life. The only reason that humanity is a jack-of-all trades race is because most players are human.
>>
>>33983054
*Constitution/Dexterity

I dun goof'd
>>
>>33983093
I don't know, compared to most animals we're pretty fucking charismatic.
>>
>>33979528
My 5e campaign will have the players be halflings in a world with only their kind, gnomes, dwarves, goblins, kobolds and ogres as the only races. Granted the ruins of other, taller races are occasionaly found, they are gone.
>>
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>>33979526

That t-shirt lies.
>>
>>33979528
I can see that being a nuisance if people give you shit for a setting without humans. But it's a different case with the significance thing. It really depends on the execution.

If a race is insignificant then you should at least make them interesting. Or serve a symbolic purpose (ex. they were prosperous and now they aren't because they fucked up).

These humans are insignificant but they aren't lame.

Humans are few in number and rare. They're mostly known as the bogeymen who hoard all kinds of valuable magi-tech. It turns out they're descended from space/dimensional travelers and are trying to get back "home". They don't care about this world.

Or perhaps humans in a Sci-Fi setting are the peaceful judgmental holier-than-thou race. They didn't unite their species just so they'd do the same song and dance with aliens. So they mostly scrapped their military and became the Iceland/Costa Rica of a small corner of the galaxy. They have good stealth tech to avoid hostile armies.

They're insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but at least they're interesting. I can understand if you're just winging it, but if a race doesn't serve any kind of purpose then just don't include them at all.
>>
>>33974772
Fucking disgusting shit faggot
>>
>>33977908

> Also, while everyone is a little bit racist, just being a half-orc shouldn't provide /pol/-tier frothing rage in people anywhere you go.

Not really. Being a half-orc means you're a product of violent rape. People would regard you with fear, pity or hatred everywhere you went. Generally, they'd prefer you not to exist.
>>
>>33982113

I do like humans being the only playable race, myself. Most of my party generally forgets when they're playing another race, so it comes off as all humans anyway.
>>
>>33986322
>Being a half-orc means you're a product of violent rape.

Why's that? I'm sure there are many people in a fantasy setting (or here) that would be perfectly fine with having sex with an orc.
>>
>>33986322
>Being a half-orc means you're a product of violent rape.
That's certainly not always the case, but I can believe that that would be the assumption.
>>
Well to add to this half-orc thing. You also have to realize that many people might have never seen or heard of a half-orc. They could just be afraid or worried because half-orcs are rare and foreign. They might even confuse them for pure orcs, even if they have heard of half-orcs.
>>
>>33986419
>They might even confuse them for pure orcs

And what would be wrong with pure orcs?
>>
>>33986455
>wrong with pure orcs

Depends on the setting. If they're mostly the crush and tear ooga booga kind then that answers itself.
>>
>>33986455
The reputation for crushing the skulls of the civilized in the name of their one-eyed god of destruction, maybe.
>>
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Worth noting, I did not read any of the text of the second post I just quoted.

>>33974772
You better tip
>>>3397564
because you just got served
>>
>>33974869
I didn't realize that you have all the qualities of everyone else on this planet and being human offers you nothing else.

Maybe I can blame you for fucking our shit up then, since your capable of rocket science why are we still on this rock?
>>
>>33986217

The obvious solution to humans being rare or extinct in a setting is that they're the common ancestor of all the humanoid races.
>>
>>33978585

>because I want [this bonus or that thing]"

But at least in D&D until recently, humans have the best bonuses. 3.5/Pathfinder is especially mechanically skewed toward humans that people tend to avoid other races because of dat bonus feat and extra skill points, and in Pathfinder's case the flexible +2 is just icing on the cake.
>>
>>33974772
I don't care when people play humans. What really chaps my stick is when humans are inexplicably the dominant majority species in the world. Like the entire goddamn world. No matter where you go, humans are the biggest power. Elf kingdom? K, but there's a huge human empire next door. Dorfs? K, but they trade with that awesome giant human city. The only places where it's not HUMANITY DOMINATUS are hives of evil badmurderer humanoids.
>>
>>33988256

Blame Tolkien.
>>
>>33988256
Stop playing bad settings. I find humans are best and most interesting when they're treated like every other race. Specialized, not too rare or not too common, and mostly holed up in a certain part of the world.

>>33988294
Humans weren't always dominant though or overly prevalent. Blame shallow copy cats.
>>
>>33988393

Aside from a brief period in the first age, (and I guess before the humans awake, but that doesn't really count) they were. Hell, Morgoth acts far more afraid of the humans than he ever does of the elves, and goes to huge lengths to stamp out all the human resistance to his empire, wheras the sons of Feanor, who still have the biggest Noldor kingdom even after Dagor Bragollach, get virtually ignored.


The entire meta-plot of Tolkien's world is how the elves and other more mystical peoples are being gradually replaced by the humans.
>>
>>33988294
But
1) in Tolkien there are vast swathes of land where humanity holds no real sway
2) Tolkien's non-human races are on the way out. The Eldar are heading back to The Magical Forest of Faggotry, the Dorfs ran out of wimminz, and hobbits are busy chasing Dat Bigger Ass. In most worlds, that's not true.
>>
>>33988393
> stop playing bad settings
Most premade settings are like this. Most homebrew settings seem to be like this. Show me where it's not true.
>>
>>33974772
No. To many people do it.
>>
>>33988256
I'm thinking in my next campaign, humanity's dominance might be the case only on coastlines, and humans being a primarily coastal race. 80% of humanity lives on the coast, IRC.
>>
>>33975640
People like you are cancer
>>
>>33988424
I feel it works because it's supposed to be history in a sense. Because it would eventually become our world and for that to happen the mythical beings need to go. Most settings don't have that kind of excuse.
>>
>>33988447
Sadly the only ones I can think of at the top of my heard are vidya. ME1 (before the ending and sequels). Also the Warcraft universe after 3. But it is almost never treated as such or explored much at all.
>>
>>33988447
>most homebrew settings seem to be like this

I wouldn't say that, but I guess it is down to personal experience. Most little homebrew settings I've come across go out of their way to avert cliches.
>>
>>33988499
See, this I can get the fuck behind. Humans are the seafarers, the river-boaters. Dwarves don't have the same physiological/biological relationship with water - in fact, this could go toward explaining why they drink so much, in order to neutralize excess water in their systems. Elves, might draw their moisture from the air itself, or they might get it all from plants, or maybe they soak it up like roots, digging their toes into the earth to drink up the juice.
>>
>>33988788
I can see humans also being pirates often. They might use the sea to prosper and trade but they also have a bad habit of bullying others at sea or hiring privateers. Makes us more three dimensional that way.
>>
>>33988641
>Most little homebrew settings I've come across go out of their way to avert cliches.

That is why so many of them are terrible though. They think being original is more important than how well you do whatever it is you want to do.
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