6 super bowl appearances > 4 super bowl appearances
4wins = 4 wins
Going to more super bowls is more impressive than losing in the nfc championship. Though using that has a only stat is dumb. You got to look at their whole body of work and what they did and what they had to work with it.
>>64879663 What strawman? According to this logic, if Brady missed the play offs or went one and done instead of going to the Super Bowl in 07 and 11 it'd make him a better quarterback since he'd be 1.000
>>64879496 >It's worse to lose in the Owl than in the championship game >It's worse to lose in the Owl than to go one-and-done in the playoffs >It's worse to lose in the Owl than to not even make the playoffs whatever you say bro
The only AFC team to win a Super Bowl during the 80s was the Raiders.
NFC dominated the League from 1981 to 1997. There's much more quote on quote parity in the league now, but I don't know how anyone can say that with a straight face when the AFC sends either Tom Brady, Manning, or Rapistberger to the SB every year.
>>64881704 The Yankees dynasties and 27 rings were due to impeccable drafting and trading. Having infinite money from Steinbrenner and top players all wanting to play for them due to their money and success had nothing to do with it.
>>64881772 your post doesn't acknowledge why the cap prevents richer owners from spending their way to championships like the yankees and the 80's 49ers. You seem to think that sidestepping the argument somehow eliminates it. L2Logic
>>64880919 >Tom Brady would not have survived the hits Jim Burt or Leonard Marshall put on Joe Why not? Joe survived them, why wouldn't Brady? Just because Brady didn't play in that era doesn't mean he couldn't
Are people really comparing the modern piss easy joke of a conference AFC with the NFC of the 80s? The pass happy you can't touch the QB NFL of today to the 80s? If getting to the super bowl and losing held that much weight then Jim Kelly would one of the ultimate elite QBs >0-2 vs Eli in Super Bowls LOL
>>64881792 in '78 and '79 the niners went 2-14. in '81 they won the super bowl. so yeah, in spite of the lack of salary cap teams could come from no where. take your soccer ball and go fuck yourself with it.
Pre-salary cap era was also pre-free agency era. What this meant was that you could be a terrific 5+ year player on a team and another team offers to pay you $5 million per year while your current team only offers to pay you $250,000 per year.
Unfortunately, you cannot go to the other team and your current team does not have to offer you more than what they already have. You have two choices: play for $250,000/year or hold out, potentially ending your football career. You see, the team that drafted you owns your NFL rights until *they* decide they no longer want you.
Good players only really moved around through trades. The NFL was serious shit then. If there was a player who pissed off a coach/owner, the team would contact the other owners and it would be agreed that the player was never to play football again. His team would then cut him and no one would pick him up.
So, Montana did not have the advantage of buying a championship. If you look at the 49ers' championship years, the key players were all drafted or older players whose original teams traded them away.
The Patriots must be given credit for accomplishing something no one thought would be possible in the free agency era NFL: they are a dynasty. And Brady is a big reason why they are.
>>64881877 How could it be fair if there was only one team outspending everyone? If everybody CAN spend infinitely, yet they all spend only $1M, while one guy decides to spend $20M, that's hardly fair. Maybe at the outset it's fair, but not in the result.
>>64880959 Getting hit by a 220 pound DB (and fully expecting the hit) is very different from getting hit (possibly blindside) by a 300+ pound DL.
The one thing that is missing from Brady's resume is a game like Montana's 1989, week 3 game against the Philadelphia Eagles, a team with a MONSTER pass rush: Reggie White, Jerome Brown, and Clyde Simmons. All were All Pro in their careers. Eric Allen, Wes Hopkins, Izell Jenkins, and Andre Waters were in the secondary.
>>64881886 Ok that's interesting, thanks. So the 49ers did a great job drafting players and created an insanely strong team that they then were able to massively underpay due to the NFL rules at the time.
All this does is make the case for Brady>Montana stronger.
>>64881819 The thing is, Joe didn't survive them. Jim Burt's hit knocked him out the game. It was a very, very bad concussion.
As for Leonard Marshall's hit, it ended Montana's 49ers career as Marshall not only broke Montana's hand (through dirty play) and bruised his sternum, the hit likely caused secondary problems that caused him to be sidelined by injury the entire subsequent season.
The 49ers did not underpay. Bill Walsh drafted well and Eddie DeBartolo also treated the players very well.
Some of the innovations DeBartolo introduced were:
1. Chartered planes to away games. 2. Single occupancy rooms on the road. Other teams at the time doubled up 3. DeBartolo paid players who produced generously. 4. DeBartolo really loved the team and the players. He wasn't just an owner who only showed up when the team won. (He was often the towel boy at end of game.) Consider that many of the long-time players who were good are considered "Eddie's guys" and they still refer to themselves as such.
Most of the other owners at the time were cheaping out. In particular, I remember Bud Adams being too cheap to pay for a good place kicker. The Oilers had Ian Howfield who had difficulties making extra points. LOL. After they fired Howfield, they hired Teddy Garcia who wasn't much better. They had Tony Zendejas (one of the best kickers of his era) before that.
>>64881936 Yeah I actually remember that, it was my first year watching football, but I didn't see that play in particular. I agree Brady's career would likely be shorter as well if he played in those days, but the way that guy put it made it seem like he thought Brady wouldn't have lasted a season, which is untrue obviously
>>64881946 I didn't say Brady couldn't take a sack. Even that sack is nothing compared to the kinds of sacks that occurred prior to the 2000 era.
Back then, defensive players in those situations would wrap up the QB and then fall on the QB. That, today, would be a penalty and the DL who consistently did that kind of thing would be heavily fined and suspended.
See if you can find interview of Deacon Jones and his attitude about playing. I paraphrase what I remember him saying:
"When I was on the field, I hated the other team's quarterback. I wanted to hurt him, knock him out of the game, end his career."
I don't really see that kind of play in today's NFL. As one player recently said, "You don't want to hurt people because so-and-so is a free agent and you never know who might be your teammate."
Notable players that Walsh was responsible for acquiring during the 49ers' championship years:
1. Dwight Hicks (FA pick-up since he did not make the team that draft him). Pro Bowl 2. Ronnie Lott. Drafted. HoF 3. Dwight Clark. Drafted. Pro Bowl 4. Joe Montana. Drafted. HoF 5. Jerry Rice. Drafted. HoF 6. Roger Craig. Drafted. All Pro 7. John Taylor. Drafted. Pro Bowl 8. Charles Haley. HoF 9. Brent Jones. FA (I believe he didn't make the team who drafted him since he was a scab in the 1987 strike season). Pro Bowl 10. Dwaine Board. FA (cut by drafting team). Pro Bowl 11. Tom Rathman. Drafted. No Pro Bowl but he was doggone good player 12. Keena Turner. Drafted. Pro Bowl 13. Bill Romanowski. Drafted. Pro Bowl 14. Wendell Tyler. Trade. Pro Bowl 15. Steve Young. Trade. HoF 16. Harris Barton. Drafted. All Pro 17. Jesse Sapolu. Drafted. Pro Bowl 18. Guy McIntyre. Drafted. Pro Bowl 19. Wesley Walls. Drafted. Pro Bowl (Haha. He didn't do much for the 49ers but he was a 9er killer with the Panthers.) 20. Fred Dean. Trade. HoF
Inherited players. These players were already on the team when Walsh was first brought on as HC/GM. Walsh recognized these guys as worth keeping, not an easy thing since the prior regime was the Joe Thomas era:
1. Randy Cross. Pro Bowl. 2. Fred Quillan. Pro Bowl 3. Keith Fahnhorst. All Pro
Over 10 years, Walsh acquired and developed at least 23 Pro Bowl caliber or better players. (I don't have to go through every roster.) That's about 2 Pro Bowl players per year. That's a very, very good record as a GM and that's a key reason why the 49ers were so dominant in the 1980s.
Free agency and no salary cap had nothing to do with it. When the 49ers won the SB XVI, they had one of the smallest payrolls in the NFL.
>>64881919 The point is that they can retain talent you fucking idiot. Once you win a superbowl nowadays everyone starts asking for too much money so you go over the cap or start over with shittier/unknown younger guys.
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