I was too young to watch Jerry Rice play, and I'm trying

No one ran routes better than him, ever. He was one of the smartest players of all time, and still one of the best even ehen he finished his career in Oaklanf

Montana made him look better than he was.

Moss looked like a god playing with shit tier QB's.

>>64733396
I agree, moss was the goat

>>64733396
>>64733467

Right? When you watch film on both of them it's ridiculous how much better Moss looks.

>>64733396
this. Moss was the best receiver to play the game.

Rice is second best, i'll give him credit for his route running and longevity but Moss was better.

>>64733494
I feel like you are being sarcastic but are you serious and yes moss looks better on film

>>64733515

I'm absolutely not being sarcastic. To me the talent difference between the two is like night and day and I can't understand how anybody could argue that Rice was a better WR than Moss after watching film of both.

I think a lot of people greatly underrate the importance of route running. Putting yourself in the right place at the right time to catch the ball is the single most important thing a receiver can do to maximize the chances of making a catch.

>>64733606
Rice wasn't the most physically gifted receiver, he was just the best.

Don't get it confused.

>>64733651
This and RAC was invented because of him. You can't run after the catch if you can't get to the spot.

>>64733651

I heard the late 80s early 90s were a time when teams mostly played bad defense and offensives blew up from something called the Left Coast Offense. Like offenses really started to expand what they were doing and defenses had no answer to it.

>>64733691
The 49ers won their first Super Bowl in the 81 season.

That's not exactly the late 80's.

Moss had a great early career, but his selfishness caught up to him, he ended his career as a has been on the Titans. Rice was still lighting it up with Rich Gannon as his qb. Moss was lazy, never put in the work. Rice is listed as the greatest player to ever play on many lists.

>>64733688

Because nobody ran with the ball after catching it until Rice came along?

>>64733715

But Rice wasn't even in College yet in 81!?

>>64733735
And?

The West Coast Offense wasn't about Jerry Rice.

You can try to ignore his greatness but you'll be ignoring the greatest of all time.

STICKUM

Jerry Rice was the greatest late game receiver of all time. It wasn't because he could run faster than everybody else, it was because he could run longer than everybody else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN6KXjETp2M

>>64733876
>"2.5 miles up"
>13,000 feet of vertical

Yeah no. You mean 2.5 miles long.

>>64733915

He obviously meant 2.5 miles uphill.

>>64733725
I believe the idea is that the quarterback had a greater chance of just hucking it up with knowledge of Rice's position.

With Randy Moss, you know what he can do.
With Jerry Rice, you know where he will be.

Better the devil you know

>>64733396
Rice caught more passes and TD from Steve Young though.

>>64734237

Meng if Moss had Hall of Fame QBz his whole career like Rice he would done out up 25K yards receiving hepcats.

>>64733348

Because route running. Rice was always in the right spot for every QB he played with. This was also during an era where defenders could mugg the fuck out of wide recievers and not have to worry as much about penalties. Rice could avoid contact on the short/medium routes, be where the QB wanted him, and run after the catch. Moss was great, but Rice is GOAT because he was damn near automatic.

>>64739288
>mcnabb
>brady

>>64733348

No one worked harder at route-running and staying in shape. He was born before the NFL forced the me-first mentality on all wide receivers.

TO is the true GOAT

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>>64740148

This

I remember when he played for the Bills. He made the whole team better.

>>64733396
>>64733467
>>64733494
>>64733506

Moss was a primadonna who couldn't keep his shit together off-field.

>chimping out on bill
>bill tells him to get lost

based hoodie

>>64733348
Route running >>>>>> speed

Speed is overrated as fuck. A lot of GOAT receivers aren't Devin Hester fast, but all of them can catch literally anything and all of them make cuts better than anybody.

A lot of people forget that Jerry Rice was part of the offense that pioneered the extensuve use of a lot of what are now standard Wide Receiver routes, such as the Curl route. Rice was able to cut like a champion, and Walsh took advantage of that by having Jerry run routes that rely heavily on good cuts, routes that most of the league rarely if ever saw a receiver run before. That, more than Montana and Young, was what made Rice elite in the late 80s and early 90s.

>>64733348
Also, why do NFL fans think Alex Smith is slow? Alex Smith was a dual-threat QB when he played for Urban Meyer at Utah. He can run quite well.

>>64733684
this

hands+routes+focus+discipline+acumen>raw talent

>>64740078
To be fair to Moss, he played before the NFL was pussified too and in one of the black and blue divisions of the NFL. NFC Central (later North)

>>64740206
He's white.

>>64740186
This

Played against quick receivers and I feel they are easier to cover than receivers who cut and make their routes perfectly, quick players can't control the speed of their cuts or have to slow down making it obvious where they're going(IMO) versus someone who travels that same speed that and has hands of God, they might not make any YACs but they'll get you that first down. Lad I played against always made the perfect route and if you weren't 100% you were dust even though you could be quicker than him that cut put him 2 yards ahead straight away and took your momentum.

>>64740175
What happened there anyway? Did he actually chimp out on Belichick? Bad move lol

>>64740414

That sounds like Bullshit to me.

>>64740206
He lacks elusiveness as a runner and he doesn't run all that often, which is a good thing.

There are actually a lot of QBs who were quite fast but were not known for their running.

Joe Montana was actually quite fast and, if I remember correctly, during team workouts he actually was faster than Jerry Rice in sprints. Montana said something of Rice about that. Something along the lines of, "In training camp, he's always dead last in the sprints. But the amazing thing is that on game day, he's always open."

Troy Aikman was also pretty fast. I seem to remember he was faster in the training camp sprints than Emmitt Smith. Smith was no rocket but I suspect many people would be surprised to know that Aikman was faster than Smith in a sprint.

>>64734237
exactly. Rice haters BTFO

LT is the best non-Brady player of all time though

>>64733348
>B-b-but his speed rating on Madden isn't 99!!!

You sound like a 15 year old

>>64733348
>you have to be fast to be great

He was great because he ran perfect routes.
Never dropped the ball
Always got opened.


Walter Payton was also considered slow, and pretty small for a running back. Try checking his numners. Being fast doesn't make you a great player......just means you are fast.

>>64733348
Rice's 40 yard dash time at the combines was maybe 4.5 or 4.6. It was weak enough that it enabled the 49ers to draft him in the year after they won a Super Bowl.

Bill Walsh's comment about Rice was that the dash times (shorts, no pads) don't matter as much as functional, in-the-game speed. Generally speaking, in an NFL game, if Rice got a step on the DB, it was a TD unless the DB is a Deion Sanders or Rod Woodson in his prime.

When Montana was the QB, every slant route that Rice ran and was the primary target could be a touchdown. He devastated DBs on cuts and he was a very strong runner, very difficult to tackle.

I believe in Rice's biography, he admitted that Randy Moss was the more naturally gifted player. However, Moss was lazy and didn't train as Rice did. Rice's training and obsession with playing a perfect game made him the more effective player.

>>64733348
many players are faster than barry sanders

many players are faster than bird

many players are faster tan gretzky

whats your point

i

Rice is in the discussion for greatest NFL player ever.
He didn't just break records, he broke them so dramatically that second place isn't even in his rear view mirror.
His productivity throughout his career was also impressive.
The guy just mastered the position.
Moss was a better athlete. TO was better conditioned.
Rice just won.

>>64747839
AB is the future GOAT tho

>>64733348
His route running was like in a boxer's term mike tyson's defense

defenders would think they're close to rice catching the ball when in actuality he was a few steps back or forward of the defender to become a open window and easy yards

into his later years he was still burning out people , even when people called him to retire he signed with the raiders and helped them go to their 5th superbowl

Absolute goat , stickem or not.

Rice was the GOAT because a he had incredible talent and durability.

Antonio Brown is on his way to surpassing him, desu. Has the talent. Durability remains to be seen.

Also, you're not old enough to have even watched Rice's later years? Fuck I'm getting old.

>>64733396
>Montana

Rice made him look good you retard.

And OP, he ran perfect routes, had soft ass hands coated in stickum, and his acceleration down the field was insane. He was a rare combination of talent and football IQ.

Oh and also he had the work ethic of Tiger Woods whacked out on speed.

which player would you say he is most like in playstyle? a taller antonio brown?

>>64750564
yeah pretty much, neither have a flaw in their game and are/were the best in the league at route running

>>64750564

Megatron has his consistency and work ethic (well, before the Concussion movie rattled him)

>>64747314
You fool, Rice fell so low because he played in a meme offense at basically a community college. He had numbers but nobody knew that it would translate.

>>64749837
>>64750476
See what i'm scared of is that the Steelers will just not re-sign AB and he'll end up playing for a retard like Alex Smith, or end up on some other shit team and just have a thoroughly unproductive career. The Steelers never seem to keep their good receivers; Wallace, Burress, Sanders, Holmes (though he did fuck up) and I just figure it'll happen once again.

He is unreal though. He has a real good offense around him but he outshines everyone on the field.

How come no one is talking about either Art Monk or Lynn Swann? Those guys were beasts and that was when DBs weren't handicapped like current ones are.

>>64733735
Uhh... he enrolled at Mississippi Valley State University in the fall of 1981.

>>64750776

Good. Fuck the Steelers

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>>64750915
You can just fuck right off muh9

>>64750790

Because Jerry Rice is a better Art Monk. And I love Art.

>>64750776
Lad, Brown is a mile ahead of the one dimensional speedsters that they refused to sign. So far, Sanders is the only one who you might make a case for and even then; Martavius Bryant and Markus Wheaton have come on so strong these last 2 years that he wouldn't be a top 2 WR on that team either.

>>64750790
>Lynn Swann


FUCK YOU LITERALLY THE MOST OVERRATED RECEIVER IN NFL HISTORY OFF ONE MEME CATCH

>>64751247
*this team either.

Wallace proved to be a flop after Ben. Holmes was always a decent slot/speed guy but he was elite for a very short time frame. Burress is hard to gauge because of how he ruined his career in NY. Sanders as of right now is less valuable than Bryant or Wheaton. I think Brown and Bell are generational talents and hopefully Ben and the Steelers do too and do whatever it takes to keep them.

>>64733691
I'd honestly say the 85 bears were the last to truly dominate defensively wise until the west coast offence infected the entire NFL with it's cancer so defenses became outdated for a long time until they could finally adapt to it.

i.e. just like how teams couldn't handle the bears meme defense for a while after it was revealed but they eventually adapted to it

Teams will eventually fully adapt to the west coast offense and spread offenses that people run now and we'll see a resurgence of those old school defensive teams again.

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cuz he has a hit video game

>>64733348
>too young to watch him play
He played until 2004 and Raiders Rice was almost as good.

What people kind of miss in these sort of things is, what do you define as the greatest?

Jerry Rice is the GOAT. Randy Moss was the most talented. There is a reason when you're growing up that you hear those cliche's about hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard. Jerry, until he was over 40, worked harder than any WR ever. In a position where primmadonna's overpopulate the position, he was on the other side. In his A Football Life, he said that this is how he operates in everything he does. Golf, Dancing with the Stars, NFL, whatever. He wasn't the greatest because of his natural talents, he was the greatest because he maximized his limited talents with hard work, precise route running, constant dedication to his craft. Its like Tedd Ginn Jr or Devin Hester. What good is you being open if A: your QB doesn't know exactly where and when that will be and B: if you can't catch to save your life?

This is also why Welker, Edelman, AB, Amendola, are so good. Even a literally who like Mike Furrey (a former safety) was able to make a career as a WR, because its not about your talents, its about your execution. Sure, Randy Moss can go up and win a ball against anybody whenever he wants (Julio Jones reminds me of this type of player) but what good is that in a chess match where being perfect is more important than being good?

>>64752130

>average Nintendo sports game

when I was a kid in the Bay Area my parents got me this illustrated kids book about the 49ers. It talked about how Jerry Rice grew up in Alabama or something and his dad was a bricklayer and he developed his hands by tossing and catching bricks. I don't know if it's apocryphal but it's a cute story.

>>64751255
No fuck you. You must literally be retarded if you think that.

>>64754455

It's true.

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/09/15/jerry-rice-story-about-how-he-got-his-work-ethic-is-awesome/21236395/

Walsh exploited Rice's abilities to run routes, that's why he was so dangerous.

>>64740099
He means consistently.
If Moss had Brady or Manning for the 2000s he should have much better numbers.

>>64754802
google "apocryphal"

>>64733691
That sounds like a circular argument to me

>jerry rice was so good because he ran routes really well and was always in the right place at the right time
>that's not a big deal though because he played in an offense which capitalized on the ability to run routes well and always be in the right place at the right time

>>64752779
Are you saying that Moss is just wasted talent even if he has a good QB because of his play style?

2 all-time great receivers with surprisingly different talents and skill sets.
The biggest difference between the two is that Rice was constantly working to get better and was in insanely good shape for his entire (nearly 20-year) career. Moss coasted on his freakish talent and never seemed interested in anything other than making pretty catches. He'd jog on plays where he wasn't going to get the ball and left the field early more than once. He might play better on YouTube but Rice was a better receiver overall.

>>64755015

try actually catching bricks

moss was a lazy piece of shit that never won anything, even when he played with Tom Brady

Rice Was better in every fucking way

>Rice Led the league in receiving 6 times
Moss never led the league in receiving

>Rice led the league in receptions twice
Moss never led in this either

>Rice led the league in td catches 6 times
Moss led the league in td catches 5 times

>Rice's most receiving yards in a season was 1848 in 1995
Moss's most receiving yards was 1,632

>Rice's most receptions was 122
>Moss's Most was 111

>Rice had 22 td's in a 12 game season
Moss had 23 td's in a 16 game season(in the modern passing era)

>Rice had 14 1,000 yard seasons
Moss had 10

>Rice had 4 100 catches seasons
Moss had 2

>Rice had 9 10 td's seasons
Moss also had 10

>Rice had 3 rings and showed up in every owl he played in
Moss never won one, despite playing on a stacked as fucked vikings team and a stacked a s fuck patriots team. Completely disappeared when his team needed him.

reminder that the day after the vikes got BTFO 41-0 in the NFCCG where he did jack shit Moss strongly hinted he wanted to leave the team
reminder that he ran his car into a meter maid at slow speed with a lit joint in the ashtray
reminder that he literally said out loud that he only tries when he feels like it

>>64755376
tacking on a reminder that while Rice went to Bumblefuck College, Moss got scholarships rescinded from both Notre Dame and Florida State because he was such a huge asshole