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You are currently reading a thread in /sci/ - Science & Math

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/co/ couldn't figure it out. Let's give sci a try.
Two men of equal intelligence attempt to outwit each other. One can see the future and one can read minds. Who outsmarts the other?
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>>7845474
No one wins, because one cannot win without the other
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>>7845475
If one of them knows the answer, then it depends on who shouts first
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>>7845474
Assuming only one of them know the answer, then it is the future reading guy, he can see the answer immediately, while the mind reader has to go through the other guy's thought process which takes time
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>>7845481

Wow u just made a bunch of retarded assumptions
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>>7845474
>Two men of equal intelligence attempt to outwit each other.
Okay.

>One can see the future and one can read minds.
Okay...

>Who outsmarts the other?
The person who can see the future already knows who will win this event, and prior to that he knew it would happen.

The person who can read the other person's mind would become aware of who will win once he engaged in discussion and started reading the other person's thoughts.

From there the person who can read the other person's thought will be granted the ability to see the future by simply mirroring the other person's mind. Whatever the predicted outcome is, will happen because it has been seen as the future.
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>>7845474
Future reader can know any thing which makes a result even what mind reader trying to take action to make change from that prediction, but due to the mind reader is expected to be a great swindler,it's not impossible to win to the future reader.

1. Put each red and black box 100yrd away behind yourselves.
2. Ask him which box has a ball in after 3 minutes from now.
3. Pass him a binocular and make him turn to see them, then turn him back again.
( You have to prepare making a modify that binocular to see red and black color opposite. )
4. Do not let him read the future of after opening the boxes.
5. You can read his mind to check if he is completely misunderstanding or not.
6. You finialy will put a ball in the box other than he said, by mysterious power.
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>>7845628
Don't see you doing anything
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>>7847538
<3
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>>7845474
The mind reader simply has to read the mind of the fortune teller while the fortune teller predicts what the mind reader is going to do. Then the mind reader chooses not to do that thing. The mind reader wins because predicting the future perfectly is not possible when the prediction is dependent on itself.
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>>7847572
If the future-seer predicts something which then fails to happen, regardless of the cause, you've contradicted your premise.
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>>7847597
So not only does it depend on their beliefs, but it depends on their faith in the other's ability to use said powers/beliefs.
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>>7845474
future fag might be able to if he can use some random process to make a decision then if the outcome is bad he just resets.

mind reader wouldnt be able to gather any info as future fag wouldnt know what hes going to do before its too late.
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>>7847613
Yes, quantum winning/"immortality" is a good method, but if you suppose the precog is skilled then you've already biased the outcome. A precog could theoretically know about the contest well in advance and reprogram his mind to be blank at the moment of outwitting the telepath. He could win by fabricating his behaviors into a function habit array that the mind reader "couldn't read." When you put the mind reader in a position of being able to read even habits, that plan fails and the precog has to re-plan, seeing that a failed future has happened. Depending on how far in advance the precog can plan, the precog will always will *because* he has more time to prepare. Since that's not a fair battle, we have to assume they "detect" the contest at the same time relative to their respective abilities.
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>>7845474
I suppose the mind-reader can also see the future then. So I'll have to say the mind-reader but seeing the future is impossible so its hard to say if this is infact the case
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>>7847645
>will always win
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When it comes to future prediction always start a debate on prediction paradoxes. Maybe science is useless in this case. How can a futureteller predict the consequencies of his choice and then change his mind?
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>>7847597
I never had the premise that the fortune teller can predict the future perfectly, I simply explained why it's impossible to predict the future perfectly, even in a clockwork deterministic universe.
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>>7845474
It depends on how mind reading and future seeing work mechanically.

If the future can be seen and changed then the future seer wins.

If it can't, then the mind reader wins because he'll have more information than the future seer
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>>7848463
>I simply explained why it's impossible to predict the future perfectly, even in a clockwork deterministic universe.
it actually is possible then because there could be no free will and so the mind reader couldn't change his decision
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>>7848478
>it actually is possible then because there could be no free will and so the mind reader couldn't change his decision
No, I don't think you understand. It has nothing to do with the mind reader having free will. Here I'll explain it in a way that does not refer to conscious beings:

We have machine M that can predict the output of any machine. We have machine N that simply outputs the opposite of it's input (so input 0 gives output 1 and input 1 gives output 0). Now what happens when we connect the output of M to the input of N and ask M to predict the output of this new machine M+N? If M predicts that the machine will output 0 then N will take that as it's input and output 1. If M predicts that the machine will output 1 then N will take that as it's input and output 0. So M cannot predict the correct output of any machine. Therefore M cannot exist.

Do you think N has free will because it just followed it's algorithm?
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>>7848478
"Free Will" has no bearing in a non-deterministic universe as well. A decision is never independent from the environment of the agent; he is always embedded in his universe. "Free Will" is nonsense.

The premise is that the seer can predict the future. Even if we take this to mean "provided no one acts on this information to change it", then this merely becomes a grind of the seer getting an updated premonition, followed by the mindreader foiling his plans, ad nauseam.
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>>7845628
OP makes a lot of assumptions about mind reading and the future as well as intelligence.
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Conservation of intelligence: if both know equally now, then they will know equally at the end.

Just like when you have two bodies with a same temperature, they will not exhange heat.
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>>7848536
Knowledge is not the same thing as intelligence...
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>>7848536
>Conservation of intelligence
m8 what the fuck, that's not any law anywhere
>>7845474
If we're assuming that the world is deterministic and that once the future seer sees something it will unfold that way, then there is no feasible way to outsmart him because he will be assured of the outcome no matter what.
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>>7848549
Determinism does not imply that the prediction will have to come true.
See >>7848514
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If the prediction is the destiny, that means no one can change it.
No matter haw deeply, how fast mind reader reads, he only can take actions along the destiny.

Fu. "2 minutes later, you'll buy a pen.
Mi. "Oh yea ? If you say so, I'm going to change it by throwing away my money from this window... Haha."
Fu. "I knew you do that."
Mi. "Jea... I got my money back ! Someone picked and gave it to me.
Fu. "Don't worry, it doesn't matter"
Mi. " I'm gonna take a nap for a while so that I can't go to any shop."
Fu. "I know you try"
Mi "Goddam ! I can't sleep, somebody set to my clock ring, why ?!"
Fu. "It's just a coincidence, but I knew that happen, too."
Mi. " Ware you expectingall of our conversation, too ?"
Fu. "Yeah, of course."
Mi. "Are you saying exactly same ward which you predicted by yourself ?
Fu. "Unfortunately yes. This answer also. I can't change it."
Mi. "You suck, Tell me why I buy a pen. I don't need it though ?"
Fu. "...don't know. I can't read anyone's mind."
Mi. " Ok good, I do read your mind a little..."
" Ah ha, my mam is going to buy it for me by using my account."
"I'll call card company to stop transactions, right away."
"Upps, It's out of battery..."
Fu. "It's almost time."
Mi. "Mom, mom ! Where are you now ?!

Mo. "Hi boy. Guess what I bought for you. It's your new stationary !
Mi. ".....! "
Fu. " See ? I told you."

The point is once future teller reads their future, They just become marionettes of his prediction. It's so weird.
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>>7848763
"Telepathy causes determinism."

- Anon
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>>7845474
>Who outsmarts the other?

Can you extrapolate on what you mean by 'outsmart'?
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>>7848763
Try reading the thread.
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They are identically matched
Thread replies: 32
Thread images: 2
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