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QOTD: Why don't Humans have Night or...
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If Human Beings are supposed to be evolutionary superior to any species on Earth, the ultimate predator, how come we cannot see in complete darkness? How come evolution did not supply human beings with some sort of thermal or night vision? Yes, man invented fire, but before that, we were completely blind at night against other predators. Why do we not have enough Rods in our Retina? This is not a Evolution vs. Creation debate. Just a curious question about Human blindness without a light source.
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>>7837204
>evolutionary superior
sage
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>>7837204
because the moon exists. Seriously, go somewhere away from city life and you'll be shocked how bright the moon is
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>>7837215

So what about when the Moon is in a phase other than full? What if there is cloud cover blocking the light from the Moon?
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>>7837204
Humans have clearly evolved to be daytime creatures.
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>>7837224
then you stay the fuck inside your cave and pray you don't get eaten

until...fire was a thing, of course
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>>7837204
Because evolution doesn't have a goal, or purpose. We hunted and gathered during the day, and we were amazingly adapt at that, and nothing fucked with us (that wasn't trying to protect its young or didn't go into extinction because we thought they were slow and yummy). So therefore we didn't need to see in the dark, and thus we no longer can see in the dark. Also maybe we could see better in the dark before fire, but fire made that ability obsolete.

Evolution doesn't try to make something the perfect killing machine that works in every single situation, it is literally just random mutations that are then naturally selected if it helps you pump out more children that can pump out more children of their own.
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>>7837525

You sir, are a legend.
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>>7837204
>If Human Beings are supposed to be evolutionary superior to any species on Earth
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>>7837204
>Why don't Humans have Night or Thermal Vision
They do have night vision...they literally have different sets of cells in the cornea.

Lrn2Human
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>>7837204
Every night-vision cell takes up room on the retina and optic nerve, thus detracting from our daytime vision (which is pretty important)
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First of all humans normally have rather good night vision. Just 4 photons is sufficient to trigger a response. Few sensors have such an enormous span in operating parameters.

Diet is enormously important for visual sensitivity. Blueberries, broccoli, carrots and more help a lot.

A specialised diet will give you vision into near infrared region. Do it wrong and you kill yourself.

Secondly humans have sort of thermal vision but it is only good for a few metres.
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>>7837204
Nightvision used to work off projecting light to view that area, like an IR flashlight.

If we could emit serious non-visible light, why not just mutate normal visible light headlights.

Also cats can see well at night, but lack our color differentiation... Which matters a lot more when your diet is plants.

Our 'hunting' method biologically speaking is just to sweat, cool ourselves better and outlast the faster/stronger prey animal we were chasing down.

It has surprisingly little to do with our vision, at least compared to other predators.

If we play tge what if game, evolving a gatling gun arm or wolverine's claws would be useful in hunting prey, no?
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>>7837204
The only evolutionary advantage we have is our enlarged frontal cortex. In almost every other capacity we are inferior to every other species on the planet.

That being said, our problem solving and communicating abilities must be one hell of an evolutionary advantage.
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>>7837204
Oh but we can with the night vision equipment we invented
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Let me just say that man did not invent fire. Fire itself is the combustion of matter. Before man existed on earth fires still happened they just weren't very common. For example forest fires. Now most forest fires are caused by man they do occur naturally every once in a while.
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>>7838880
maybe unrelated to the thread, but what diet or nutrients improves nocturnal vison?
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>>7837204
We can actually see quite well in darkness

Go out into the woods at night and wait about 30 minutes and you'll be able to see very well
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>>7837204
>posts a pic of humans with night vision
>Why don't human have night vision?
Retard.

Humans dominate the Earth because they are the most intelligent specie.
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>>7837204

Because we are smart enough to invent night vision goggles.
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>>7838137
>Every night-vision cell takes up room on the retina and optic nerve, thus detracting from our daytime vision (which is pretty important)
Seriously guys this is all it is.
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>>7838880
>A specialised diet will give you vision into near infrared region. Do it wrong and you kill yourself.
I'm gonna need some more info on this senpai.
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>>7837204
>the ultimate predator

thanks to our cognitive abilities, enabling the development of technology - that's what makes humans deadly. When you take that away from us humans are pretty shit predators - slow, no useful claws or tooth, soft skin, etc.
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>>7838880
>have sort of thermal vision

Great claims needs greater proofs...
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>>7840469
Why the fuck did you click the post id the reply AND quote the entire fucking post? What the fucking fuck I've had enough of this bullshit, it's all over 4chan, the users fucking suck I hate this fucking shit fucking fuck. It's like you WANT to be called mentally retarded. You actively seek out ways to be the most imbecilic, time-wasting piece of autistic shit on this site (and that's saying a lot). Fuck you and your stupid fucking post-quoting life, you absolute fucking fuck.
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>>7840555
>Why the fuck did you click the post id the reply AND quote the entire fucking post? What the fucking fuck I've had enough of this bullshit, it's all over 4chan, the users fucking suck I hate this fucking shit fucking fuck. It's like you WANT to be called mentally retarded. You actively seek out ways to be the most imbecilic, time-wasting piece of autistic shit on this site (and that's saying a lot). Fuck you and your stupid fucking post-quoting life, you absolute fucking fuck.
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>>7837204
Nothing can see in pitch black.

That said, we can see stupidly well in the dark compared to all but straight up nocturnal animals.

We can also hear extremely well and can locate sounds better than a running ton of animals too.

You don't have to have the best of everything to be the best.
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>>7840610
>>Why the fuck did you click the post id the reply AND quote the entire fucking post? What the fucking fuck I've had enough of this bullshit, it's all over 4chan, the users fucking suck I hate this fucking shit fucking fuck. It's like you WANT to be called mentally retarded. You actively seek out ways to be the most imbecilic, time-wasting piece of autistic shit on this site (and that's saying a lot). Fuck you and your stupid fucking post-quoting life, you absolute fucking fuck.
>>7840555
>Why the fuck did you click the post id the reply AND quote the entire fucking post? What the fucking fuck I've had enough of this bullshit, it's all over 4chan, the users fucking suck I hate this fucking shit fucking fuck. It's like you WANT to be called mentally retarded. You actively seek out ways to be the most imbecilic, time-wasting piece of autistic shit on this site (and that's saying a lot). Fuck you and your stupid fucking post-quoting life, you absolute fucking fuck.
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>>7840521
>slow
I'm only repeating what I've heard but if you consider our endurance we can outrun a lot of prey simply because they get tired.
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>>7838880
Heh heh, I sure got some feedback on this one. Mind you, this was no poo posting. So, addressing my fellow scholars in turn:


>>7840120
>diet or nutrients improves nocturnal vison?
Food rich in vitamin A and (pro)carotin. Blueberries, carrots, broccoli and more will help a lot. I eat this, simply because I like the taste, and later discovered that I could see in darkness when others were stumbling about.

>>7840474
>I'm gonna need some more info on this senpai.
Soo desu nee, kohai.
Replacing normal vitamin A with a variant vitamin A'. It extends your vision a little into near infrared. This was used by fighter pilots in (I think) Vietnam war as it improves survivability of the pilots since they will discover enemy pilots earlier. It appears that some people have this ability naturally and some WWII fighter aces had this ability. Side effects are not entirely disclosed though excessive sensibility to light is one. This is no longer used, probably there were other issues too.

>>7840554
>Great claims needs greater proofs...
... and preferably from great /sci/entists. I learned about this when I studied Physics.

If anyone starts searching you will find two insane experiments on human volunteers. I sincerely hope you are NOT trying this out on yourself, or your younger sister for that matter. Please.
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>>7837204
We rely deeply on circadian cycles, ranging from hormones to deposition of metal ions into the blood. We have acute vision during the day, and only a slight ability to see in the dark because we need to sleep when the sun goes down.
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>>7840859
To survive we had to have the ability to wake up in the middle of the night and do something. And that would require far more than a "slight ability" to see in the dark.
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>>7837204
Ask yourself:
>do humans exist?
If you answered yes, then it's possible that humans didn't need night vision to survive.
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>>7840948
No it wouldn't. Moon-light, fire-light, etc. all provide enough light for basic survival in the dark. Maybe not for hunting, but our vision capabilities in a pack setting were more than sufficient for human survival through inactive night periods.

Although we can't know for certain that at one point we didn't have better night vision and that it didn't contribute enough to fitness to be strongly selected for. Typical nocturnal vision adaptations decrease visual acuity in day time light levels.
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>>7840783

that might be true, but for me the ultimate predator is one that nothing else is able to prey on. Humans with zero technology would maybe outrun a bear in a marathon, but they would get eaten a lot sooner than that.
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>>7840979
>the ultimate predator is one that nothing else is able to prey on.
That's idiotic criteria.
>without tools
Further compounding your idiocy.
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I find the idea that random evolution along with natural selection lead to such complex life evolving on earth overly simplistic.
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>>7840970
You know that we do not have moon light every night, right? And that there are things called clouds? Right?

Also control of fire does not start with the first human, also our close relatives among primates do not control fire and yet must survive each night.

>Although we can't know for certain that at one point we didn't have better night vision
Well, has human biology changed significantly since the appearance of homo sapens?
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>>7837204
We are diurnal apes but originally primates were nocturnal.
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>>7841029
I used "we" incorrectly -- I meant ancestors, not necessarily evolved homo sapiens. Have you ever seen the night sky during a bright-lunar phase while there are clouds out? It diffuses the incoming light but it's still there. And sure there are nights when the moon isn't visible, but that window of vulnerability is small in relation to every other challenge to our species.

I'm really not sure what you're arguing, that we should have evolved night vision? We, like a lot of other mammals, are diurnal. Physiologically, eyeballs capable of nightvision are larger, more vulnerable, and designed to process incident light into basic shapes and structures. The human eyeball, and other diurnal eyeballs, swap this capability for visual clarity and detail, not to mention our incredible binocular capabilities.
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>>7841047
Does this mean that owls can't see bluray in HD?
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>>7841047
>I'm really not sure what you're arguing
I am arguing that humans can have rather good night vision. Also that we would need this to survive the first moonless night.

I agree that there are animals with better night vision, such as cats having a reflective layer behind the retina. That helps, certainly, but we can still get by with what we have.

Also it seems to me from my own experience that there are large variations in human night vision. I can see really well at night, much better than most others, though I suspect it relates more to diet than what we are born with. I tested my eyes using a spectrometer and my vision certainly does not extend beyond what is normal.

> Have you ever seen the night sky during a bright-lunar phase while there are clouds out?
Yes. I like to observe the night sky and have seen this many times. And twice I had to walk home at night where there were no street light and no moon. After 45 minutes your eyes get really sensitive and it is amazing what you can see.
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>>7841133
Okay well yeah, I agree completely. Relative to diurnal organisms, we're pretty adept at low-light vision. Rod cells in our eyes are responsive down to a single photon. We just happen to have higher cone density than other nocturnal creatures -- as well as lack other important physiological adaptations.
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>>7837204
That's not how evolution works, mate. Regardless, our superiority is an aggregate, to me, if an animal possesses the ability to cause a worldwide mass extinction, and have the ability to completely destroy most of the environment through war or pollution, they're pretty superior.
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